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View Full Version : Theo is on the North Side, Part II


DumpJerry
10-26-2011, 11:57 AM
Continue to discuss, if you feel the need....

Fenway
10-26-2011, 11:58 AM
CHICAGO - Halas, Ditka, Jordan. And now, Epstein?

That was the feeling you got here yesterday. (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/26/new_cub_epstein_gets_a_bear_hug/?page=full)

DrCrawdad
10-26-2011, 12:09 PM
Continue to discuss, if you feel the need....

Good point. I turned off the radio. Listening to some new tunes. I'm moving on.

DumpJerry
10-26-2011, 12:18 PM
CHICAGO - Halas, Ditka, Jordan. And now, Epstein?

That was the feeling you got here yesterday. (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/26/new_cub_epstein_gets_a_bear_hug/?page=full)
Ok, the stuff he said about how to build a winning team makes no sense whatsoever. I only want to know if that stapler he was hugging in his Fenway office was a red Swingline.

tebman
10-26-2011, 12:30 PM
All this parting of the water for Epstein is embarrassing to be sure, but it's comical too. I got the Sun-Times this morning and saw for the second time the whole back page filled with Theo's handsome countenance.

Give me a break.

On Sunday the Tribune printed an organization chart showing who works for whom in the Cubs' front office, along with the Ricketts family's brightest lights. In the spirit of full disclosure, it included a box mentioning that the Tribune still owns 5% of the team, but hastened to add that it has no say in team decisions. Harumph.

While I doubt that anybody in the Tribune newsroom is phoning in to the Cubs bullpen, I don't doubt for a minute that the (currently bankrupt) beancounters upstairs aren't watching this with keen interest. Let's get real.

Kaplan is a great lightning rod for our scorn at all this sniveling and fawning, but the rest of the pack isn't far behind. What this shows to me is Chicago's deep insecurity: a well-bred Brahmin with a gloss of east-coast money comes to town and is greeted like a holy man.

It's North Side pandering and little else. It's significant that one of the reference anecdotes talks about who's going to recognize him at Starbucks. Where's the Lincoln Park Trixie Society when we need it the most?

jdm2662
10-26-2011, 12:38 PM
All this parting of the water for Epstein is embarrassing to be sure, but it's comical too. I got the Sun-Times this morning and saw for the second time the whole back page filled with Theo's handsome countenance.

Give me a break.

On Sunday the Tribune printed an organization chart showing who works for whom in the Cubs' front office, along with the Ricketts family's brightest lights. In the spirit of full disclosure, it included a box mentioning that the Tribune still owns 5% of the team, but hastened to add that it has no say in team decisions. Harumph.

While I doubt that anybody in the Tribune newsroom is phoning in to the Cubs bullpen, I don't doubt for a minute that the (currently bankrupt) beancounters upstairs aren't watching this with keen interest. Let's get real.

Kaplan is a great lightning rod for our scorn at all this sniveling and fawning, but the rest of the pack isn't far behind. What this shows to me is Chicago's deep insecurity: a well-bred Brahmin with a gloss of east-coast money comes to town and is greeted like a holy man.

It's North Side pandering and little else. It's significant that one of the reference anecdotes talks about who's going to recognize him at Starbucks. Where's the Lincoln Park Trixie Society when we need it the most?

I've taken the same stance. I used to get upset of the Cubbie Loving media. Now, I just laugh at it. It's gotten beyond pathetic. I don't get such love for such a miserable franchise. I really don't. But, whatever.

The thing is, Theo is actually a good hire, and might do a good job. Maybe he will start focus on the team itself and not the other BS that goes with the Cubbie experience. He's also not going to turn the team around over night. He's going to need a few years to fully implement his system. Until then, he is just another Dallas Green, Jim Frey, Dusty Baker, Andy McPhail, Lou Pinella and all the other saviors I missed.

JB98
10-26-2011, 01:11 PM
All this parting of the water for Epstein is embarrassing to be sure, but it's comical too. I got the Sun-Times this morning and saw for the second time the whole back page filled with Theo's handsome countenance.

Give me a break.

On Sunday the Tribune printed an organization chart showing who works for whom in the Cubs' front office, along with the Ricketts family's brightest lights. In the spirit of full disclosure, it included a box mentioning that the Tribune still owns 5% of the team, but hastened to add that it has no say in team decisions. Harumph.

While I doubt that anybody in the Tribune newsroom is phoning in to the Cubs bullpen, I don't doubt for a minute that the (currently bankrupt) beancounters upstairs aren't watching this with keen interest. Let's get real.

Kaplan is a great lightning rod for our scorn at all this sniveling and fawning, but the rest of the pack isn't far behind. What this shows to me is Chicago's deep insecurity: a well-bred Brahmin with a gloss of east-coast money comes to town and is greeted like a holy man.

It's North Side pandering and little else. It's significant that one of the reference anecdotes talks about who's going to recognize him at Starbucks. Where's the Lincoln Park Trixie Society when we need it the most?

The crazy thing is, the pandering is just getting started.

Epstein is going to bring Jed Hoyer in to be the GM of the team. There will be another day just like yesterday, where Hoyer will be treated as a messiah and nothing else will be talked about for at least a full news cycle.

Then, Epstein is going to fire the overmatched Quade, and possibly hire Ryne Sandberg to manage the team. If indeed that comes to pass, the media joygasm from that is liable to last weeks, if not months.

The Tribune is already gushing about an alleged "Sandberg sighting" on Michigan Avenue.

But there is good news for Sox fans, we've seen this a million times before. The Cubs always win the offseason. They always win the marketing war. It counts for nothing on the field.

Fenway
10-26-2011, 01:17 PM
Kaplan is a great lightning rod for our scorn at all this sniveling and fawning, but the rest of the pack isn't far behind. What this shows to me is Chicago's deep insecurity: a well-bred Brahmin with a gloss of east-coast money comes to town and is greeted like a holy man.



Never, ever call a Yale man a Brahmin :tongue:

What Epstein has the chance to do is change the culture of the club IF Ricketts allows that to happen. MacPhail had to deal with the Tribune who listened more to John McDonough than him.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7128279/andy-macphail-says-more-pressure-theo-epstein-taking-chicago-cubs

One of the first things Epstein did in Boston was to demand huge office space for baseball operations. The Red Sox then evicted a popular bowling alley in the basement of the so called Jeano Building and also moved NESN to the burbs to give him the space he demanded. He may well demand getting office space near Wrigley to do so.

Soxman219
10-26-2011, 01:52 PM
My take on this: Chicago is embarrassing themselves right now with this :worship: of Epstein. Yeah, Theo is a smart baseball guy, but come on. This is making us look bad with all this praise; I'm surprised none of the Cub fans around the Northside went and kissed Theo's hand like the pope! Everyone fawning over him like schoolgirls eyeing some guy. Bernstein is making himself look ridiculous, Kaplan made himself look extra pathetic, and the media has the audacity to compare Epstein to other Chicago heroes when he can easily be another McPhail? You have Cub fans already making T-Shirts saying "Theo To The Rescue! and Theo's face on the Obama Hope background. Foolish. Do they have no shame? I don't know why every time someone big comes here we give him the key to the city. This is like Miami after Lebron joined the Heat.

But somewhere, Kenny is smiling has the Sox are back under the radar.

DumpJerry
10-26-2011, 02:05 PM
Never, ever call a Yale man a Brahmin :tongue:

What Epstein has the chance to do is change the culture of the club IF Ricketts allows that to happen. MacPhail had to deal with the Tribune who listened more to John McDonough than him.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7128279/andy-macphail-says-more-pressure-theo-epstein-taking-chicago-cubs

One of the first things Epstein did in Boston was to demand huge office space for baseball operations. The Red Sox then evicted a popular bowling alley in the basement of the so called Jeano Building and also moved NESN to the burbs to give him the space he demanded. He may well demand getting office space near Wrigley to do so.
I hear the Trophy Room at Wrigley has plenty of empty space.......

spawn
10-26-2011, 02:24 PM
Who is Theo Epstein? :scratch:

VMSNS
10-26-2011, 02:30 PM
Apparently, there are Theo Epstein jerseys being sold at stores around Wrigley.

Also, the "sighting" of Theo at the Starbucks on Wrightwood/Belden a couple weeks ago turned out to be real. I'll be damned.

Dick Allen
10-26-2011, 02:39 PM
Apparently, there are Theo Epstein jerseys being sold at stores around Wrigley.

Also, the "sighting" of Theo at the Starbucks on Wrightwood/Belden a couple weeks ago turned out to be real. I'll be damned.Theo jerseys? What are his lifetime stats? How come I never saw his baseball card?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Fenway
10-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Theo jerseys? What are his lifetime stats? How come I never saw his baseball card?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

You were not looking. :tongue:

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/theo-epstein.jpg

slavko
10-26-2011, 03:14 PM
You guys are on a funny roll today. Bitter but good. Say, Theo's wife is Marie Whitney. Could she be related to the Whitney/Vanderbilt New York High Society crowd? We're truly dealing with American royalty here. Worth cover to cover analysis in all the media. I hope it never ends.:redneck

PaleHoser
10-26-2011, 04:02 PM
Theo's baseball IQ dropped to nil yesterday. It was sucked out of him at this precise moment (http://www.wgnradio.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-theo-epstein-and-his-coverage-in-chicago-a-001,0,7374272.photo).

asindc
10-26-2011, 04:13 PM
Theo's baseball IQ dropped to nil yesterday. It was sucked out of him at this precise moment (http://www.wgnradio.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-theo-epstein-and-his-coverage-in-chicago-a-001,0,7374272.photo).

When someone earlier posted that Woo Woo had a ukelele for the occasion, I thought they were joking.:o:

SOXPHILE
10-26-2011, 04:30 PM
Theo's baseball IQ dropped to nil yesterday. It was sucked out of him at this precise moment (http://www.wgnradio.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-theo-epstein-and-his-coverage-in-chicago-a-001,0,7374272.photo).


What's worse, Woo, or the other creepy dork in the baggy khakis, blue Cubbie shirt, camera in hand. Wow. The wife has a "get me the hell away from this freakshow" look on her face too.

Frontman
10-26-2011, 05:37 PM
What's worse, Woo, or the other creepy dork in the baggy khakis, blue Cubbie shirt, camera in hand. Wow. The wife has a "get me the hell away from this freakshow" look on her face too.

Both of them do. Granted, the kind of bank Theo is making will allow him to tolerate the freakshow; but still. Huge difference from "Sweet Caroline" now isn't it?

MarySwiss
10-26-2011, 06:57 PM
You know, I'm becoming more and more convinced that that guy showing up for all these photo ops can't be entirely coincidental. I see him down here at the Cubs/Sox ST games, hanging out with Trixies. And didn't I read somewhere that he was at Sandberg's HOF induction?

And what's up with the ukulele? :?:

DumpJerry
10-26-2011, 07:48 PM
What's worse, Woo, or the other creepy dork in the baggy khakis, blue Cubbie shirt, camera in hand. Wow. The wife has a "get me the hell away from this freakshow" look on her face too.
She's probably coming the (correct) conclusion that Cub Nation is one big bumpkin town.

We should send her some White Sox tickets.

Domeshot17
10-26-2011, 08:06 PM
I don't know, I agree the crowning is a bit insane, but the Cubs have reason to be excited. They landed the biggest fish of the winter easily. They brought in a guy who has won 2 titles and knows how to build a farm system. No one knows if he will win or not for the Cubs, but he was one of the best GM's in baseball. If the Sox would have fired Kenny and hired Theo this offseason, this board would have blown up.

You have 2 pathetically bad teams in Chicago right now. If you had to pick Kenny or Theo to build a winner, would it be a hard choice? By signing Theo, Ricketts is doing something Jerry has refused to do, get out of the way.

As a Sox fan, there is not a hell of a lot to be excited about right now. This was a big score for the Cubs.

ZombieRob
10-26-2011, 08:16 PM
I don't know, I agree the crowning is a bit insane, but the Cubs have reason to be excited. They landed the biggest fish of the winter easily. They brought in a guy who has won 2 titles and knows how to build a farm system. No one knows if he will win or not for the Cubs, but he was one of the best GM's in baseball. If the Sox would have fired Kenny and hired Theo this offseason, this board would have blown up.

You have 2 pathetically bad teams in Chicago right now. If you had to pick Kenny or Theo to build a winner, would it be a hard choice? By signing Theo, Ricketts is doing something Jerry has refused to do, get out of the way.

As a Sox fan, there is not a hell of a lot to be excited about right now. This was a big score for the Cubs.


I agree. The Sox are in complete shambles it's frightening. They have no direction now. I personally think Theo is a quitter and surely benefited having a ton of money and got real lucky with Ortiz and fleecing the Padres. Right now all I see is KW talking out of his ass.

asindc
10-26-2011, 08:21 PM
I don't know, I agree the crowning is a bit insane, but the Cubs have reason to be excited. They landed the biggest fish of the winter easily. They brought in a guy who has won 2 titles and knows how to build a farm system. No one knows if he will win or not for the Cubs, but he was one of the best GM's in baseball. If the Sox would have fired Kenny and hired Theo this offseason, this board would have blown up.

You have 2 pathetically bad teams in Chicago right now. If you had to pick Kenny or Theo to build a winner, would it be a hard choice? By signing Theo, Ricketts is doing something Jerry has refused to do, get out of the way.

As a Sox fan, there is not a hell of a lot to be excited about right now. This was a big score for the Cubs.

When Theo proves he can do those things within a budget set by JR, I'll be persuaded. Until then, I see no special skill in paying someone $51 million just to have a conversation with a player.

Frontman
10-26-2011, 08:48 PM
You know, I'm becoming more and more convinced that that guy showing up for all these photo ops can't be entirely coincidental. I see him down here at the Cubs/Sox ST games, hanging out with Trixies. And didn't I read somewhere that he was at Sandberg's HOF induction?

And what's up with the ukulele? :?:

Don't know about the ukulele (and someone, for the love of Israel "IZ" Kaʻanoʻi Kamakawiwoʻole get that thing away from Ronnie) but someone pays for him to be at various functions. I know at least a few times he's been flown out to Meza, and there are stories of folks paying for Ronnie to "hang" with them and party with them.

The thing of it is; Ronnie/the bleacher bums/loveable losers/etc is exactly what Theo needs to avoid. It's about winning games, not about the park's "magic" and "history."

Fenway
10-26-2011, 08:57 PM
Cubs hire Jed Hoyer, Jason McLeod

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7153902/chicago-cubs-hire-san-diego-padres-jed-hoyer-jason-mcleod

doublem23
10-26-2011, 09:29 PM
I agree. The Sox are in complete shambles it's frightening. They have no direction now. I personally think Theo is a quitter and surely benefited having a ton of money and got real lucky with Ortiz and fleecing the Padres. Right now all I see is KW talking out of his ass.

Just FWIW, all of this was noted about the Sox between the 2004 and 2005 seasons, as well.

DumpJerry
10-26-2011, 09:44 PM
Cubs hire Jed Hoyer, Jason McLeod

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7153902/chicago-cubs-hire-san-diego-padres-jed-hoyer-jason-mcleod
So? Cub fans are more funny than Steve Martin right now. They think this is a "dream team" for the front office because these guys, with Theo, all worked together at the Padres. "They know how each other think" is what I'm hearing. News flash: the Padres have not done much with this "dream team" and running a front office for a MLB team is not like flying a rocket to the Moon where split second decisions have to be made during trouble where the team has to work quickly with each other.

Brian26
10-26-2011, 10:10 PM
I don't know, I agree the crowning is a bit insane, but the Cubs have reason to be excited. They landed the biggest fish of the winter easily. They brought in a guy who has won 2 titles and knows how to build a farm system.

He traded Hanley to the Marlins for Beckett, Lowell and Mota. He knows how to mortgage the future just as well as Kenny, with the difference being that Duquette handed Epstein a toy box full of toys to play with. Hanley was signed by the Red Sox two years before Epstein arrived.

Fenway
10-26-2011, 10:11 PM
]He traded Hanley to the Marlins for Beckett, Lowell and Mota.[/B] He knows how to mortgage the future just as well as Kenny, with the difference being that Duquette handed Epstein a toy box full of toys to play with. Hanley was signed by the Red Sox two years before Epstein arrived.

Theo had NOTHING to do with that - he was on his vacation in the gorilla suit.

Bill Lajoie, Charrington and Hoyer made the Beckett trade.

Brian26
10-26-2011, 10:15 PM
Theo had NOTHING to do with that - he was on his vacation in the gorilla suit.

Bill Lajoie, Charrington and Hoyer made the Beckett trade.

I stand corrected. I thought that happened after the 06 season...but you're correct, that was after 05.

Fenway
10-26-2011, 11:30 PM
I stand corrected. I thought that happened after the 06 season...but you're correct, that was after 05.

Theo even said afterwards he would not have done the deal. The irony was Lowell who was the throw in played very well in Boston.

cards press box
10-27-2011, 01:26 AM
Theo had NOTHING to do with that - he was on his vacation in the gorilla suit.

Bill Lajoie, Charrington and Hoyer made the Beckett trade.

And Jed Hoyer is now the Cubs GM. I don't know about everyone else but given that today was the 5th anniversary of the Sox World Champioship in '05 and given all this Theo hoopla, I decided to watch the DVD of the glorious El Duque ALDS clinching game against Boston. And you know what? Chris Berman is still a loudmouth.

DSpivack
10-27-2011, 03:04 AM
And Jed Hoyer is now the Cubs GM. I don't know about everyone else but given that today was the 5th anniversary of the Sox World Champioship in '05 and given all this Theo hoopla, I decided to watch the DVD of the glorious El Duque ALDS clinching game against Boston. And you know what? Chris Berman is still a loudmouth.

Game 2 is what I will remember from Berman in that series.

"Oh, no!" :rolleyes:

DrCrawdad
10-27-2011, 06:32 AM
And Jed Hoyer is now the Cubs GM. I don't know about everyone else but given that today was the 5th anniversary of the Sox World Champioship in '05 and given all this Theo hoopla, I decided to watch the DVD of the glorious El Duque ALDS clinching game against Boston. And you know what? Chris Berman is still a loudmouth.

2005 ALDS:
The Sox sweep the Other Sox.
Theo Epstein quits & runs away in a gorilla costume.

http://www.weei.com/sites/default/files/c-images/111.jpg
Indeed!

asindc
10-27-2011, 07:04 AM
He traded Hanley to the Marlins for Beckett, Lowell and Mota. He knows how to mortgage the future just as well as Kenny, with the difference being that Duquette handed Epstein a toy box full of toys to play with. Hanley was signed by the Red Sox two years before Epstein arrived.

A better example, IMO, is Masterson for Martinez, which eventually hurt them these past two seasons.

C-Dawg
10-27-2011, 07:11 AM
What is the significance of the gorilla suit? I must have missed class when that news broke. Although I do admit he sort of looks like a gorilla, if a gorilla was ever dressed in a high-end designer suit.

SI1020
10-27-2011, 07:53 AM
All this parting of the water for Epstein is embarrassing to be sure, but it's comical too. I got the Sun-Times this morning and saw for the second time the whole back page filled with Theo's handsome countenance.

Give me a break.

On Sunday the Tribune printed an organization chart showing who works for whom in the Cubs' front office, along with the Ricketts family's brightest lights. In the spirit of full disclosure, it included a box mentioning that the Tribune still owns 5% of the team, but hastened to add that it has no say in team decisions. Harumph.

While I doubt that anybody in the Tribune newsroom is phoning in to the Cubs bullpen, I don't doubt for a minute that the (currently bankrupt) beancounters upstairs aren't watching this with keen interest. Let's get real.

Kaplan is a great lightning rod for our scorn at all this sniveling and fawning, but the rest of the pack isn't far behind. What this shows to me is Chicago's deep insecurity: a well-bred Brahmin with a gloss of east-coast money comes to town and is greeted like a holy man.

It's North Side pandering and little else. It's significant that one of the reference anecdotes talks about who's going to recognize him at Starbucks. Where's the Lincoln Park Trixie Society when we need it the most? Great post.

SI1020
10-27-2011, 08:10 AM
Just FWIW, all of this was noted about the Sox between the 2004 and 2005 seasons, as well. It was nowhere near this bad IMHO.

DrCrawdad
10-27-2011, 08:24 AM
What is the significance of the gorilla suit? I must have missed class when that news broke. Although I do admit he sort of looks like a gorilla, if a gorilla was ever dressed in a high-end designer suit.

2005 ALDS:
The Sox sweep the Other Sox.
Theo Epstein quits & runs away in a gorilla costume.


On October 31, 2005, Epstein resigned, rejecting a three-year, $1.5-million-per-year contract for personal reasons. According to The Boston Globe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boston_Globe), "This is a job you have to give your whole heart and soul to," he said. "In the end, after a long period of reflection about myself and the program, I decided I could no longer put my whole heart and soul into it." Because it was Halloween the night he resigned from the Red Sox, Epstein left Fenway Park wearing a gorilla suit in an attempt to avoid reporters. A witness reported spotting a person wearing a gorilla suit driving a Volvo similar to Epstein's that night. - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_Epstein)
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/Theo_gorilla.jpg
Hey bro, What's The Score?

veeter
10-27-2011, 09:18 AM
It was nowhere near this bad IMHO.Sure it was. Kenny made huge philosphical changes to the team. They went from softball to smartball, remember. He traded Carlos Lee and added: Pods, Iguchi, A.J., Hermanson, and others. Magglio left the year before. Frank was always hurt and playing a lesser role. So there were HUGE question marks. And I still believe 2005 was supposed to be a step towards what Ozzie and Kenny were invisioning the Sox to be. They just happened to go out and win the whole thing.

DumpJerry
10-27-2011, 09:20 AM
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/Theo_gorilla.jpg
Hey bro, What's The Score?
Yeah, he'll fit right in with the new boss.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Q6TZq05jaX8/TK_Y9sd8LoI/AAAAAAAAA54/Xj08YcZU-AU/s1600/rickettsbeer.jpg

SI1020
10-27-2011, 10:55 AM
Sure it was. Kenny made huge philosphical changes to the team. They went from softball to smartball, remember. He traded Carlos Lee and added: Pods, Iguchi, A.J., Hermanson, and others. Magglio left the year before. Frank was always hurt and playing a lesser role. So there were HUGE question marks. And I still believe 2005 was supposed to be a step towards what Ozzie and Kenny were invisioning the Sox to be. They just happened to go out and win the whole thing. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I certainly didn't expect the Sox to win it all in 05 but was quietly confident that KW had built a competitive team. At first the Pods trade shocked me but when all the pieces were in place it made much better sense. I am absolutely dreading next year. I expect very little from the Sox and fear one of my all time favorites is being set up to be a sacrificial lamb. As for the Theo thing, it's the biggest coup anyone in baseball could have pulled in the off season. It remains to be seen if he can succeed where Durocher, Dallas Green, MacPhail, Hendry, Piniella and so many others have failed. He will be given time and room to succeed and at least in the near term we can expect unlimited joyful Cubbie tidings from the local and national media. You've got your work cut out for you KW.

DrCrawdad
10-27-2011, 01:26 PM
Cheers to Chris Deluca at the Sun-Times for his column today. Any guesses as to who the "suburban" columnist was that he calls for some especially egregious slobbering.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/8438410-452/hey-cubs-fans-baseball-execs-arent-rock-stars.html

spawn
10-27-2011, 01:39 PM
Cheers to Chris Deluca at the Sun-Times for his column today. Any guesses as to who the "suburban" columnist was that he calls for some especially egrecious slobbering.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/8438410-452/hey-cubs-fans-baseball-execs-arent-rock-stars.html
What a jealous, bitter hack.

doublem23
10-27-2011, 01:47 PM
It was nowhere near this bad IMHO.

Yeah they were

veeter
10-27-2011, 02:29 PM
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I certainly didn't expect the Sox to win it all in 05 but was quietly confident that KW had built a competitive team. At first the Pods trade shocked me but when all the pieces were in place it made much better sense. I am absolutely dreading next year. I expect very little from the Sox and fear one of my all time favorites is being set up to be a sacrificial lamb. As for the Theo thing, it's the biggest coup anyone in baseball could have pulled in the off season. It remains to be seen if he can succeed where Durocher, Dallas Green, MacPhail, Hendry, Piniella and so many others have failed. He will be given time and room to succeed and at least in the near term we can expect unlimited joyful Cubbie tidings from the local and national media. You've got your work cut out for you KW.Why dread next year when the team hasn't even begun to take shape yet?

SI1020
10-27-2011, 02:36 PM
Hey guys hope you're right, that we're on the cusp of greatness again. I don't see it but of course will be more than happy to be wrong. I hope KW rediscovers his A game.

Goose
10-27-2011, 04:02 PM
Why dread next year when the team hasn't even begun to take shape yet?

It hasn't? I dont expect much change from this year, really. If there is change, it will seemingly be for the worse. They are looking to trade Danks, TCQ, Gavin, Thornton...MB likely won't be back. You have Rios and Dunn, like it or not.

Adding payroll is unlikely, getting quality pieces for those that are leaving? I don't know, but I lost faith in KW's ability to make decent trades, or at least getting the value back for that they are giving away...

All that has ME dreading next year.

asindc
10-27-2011, 04:31 PM
It hasn't? I dont expect much change from this year, really. If there is change, it will seemingly be for the worse. They are looking to trade Danks, TCQ, Gavin, Thornton...MB likely won't be back. You have Rios and Dunn, like it or not.

Adding payroll is unlikely, getting quality pieces for those that are leaving? I don't know, but I lost faith in KW's ability to make decent trades, or at least getting the value back for that they are giving away...

All that has ME dreading next year.

No, it hasn't.

slavko
10-27-2011, 05:32 PM
There was some slobbering Around These Parts about Chuck Nor...I mean Kenny after the WS win. So I hesitate to cast stones at the other side. So you cast them for me. :wink:

DrCrawdad
10-27-2011, 06:25 PM
There was some slobbering Around These Parts about Chuck Nor...I mean Kenny after the WS win. So I hesitate to cast stones at the other side. So you cast them for me. :wink:

I don't know who "Chuck Nor..." is. But how are these two situations comparable?

Sox fans slobbering following the World Series Championship vs. The media slobbering over a new Cubs team president.

:scratch:

Goose
10-27-2011, 06:29 PM
No, it hasn't.

Sterling insight. I clearly see how wrong I was...

guillensdisciple
10-27-2011, 06:45 PM
THe media is calming a little bit. I did not hear Theo 2323132 times on the Radio in a 15 minute interval today. Maybe 232 times.

ZombieRob
10-27-2011, 08:11 PM
Just FWIW, all of this was noted about the Sox between the 2004 and 2005 seasons, as well.
They also had a manager "With Experience" weren't maxed on payroll full of dead weight and a pitching staff that was in place. MB may be gone, Danks may be gone and Floyd in that mix, though with his contract unlikely. Nothing KW has shown so far, makes it seem like he has a short or long term plan. IMO

StillMissOzzie
10-27-2011, 08:56 PM
And Jed Hoyer is now the Cubs GM. I don't know about everyone else but given that today was the 5th anniversary of the Sox World Champioship in '05 and given all this Theo hoopla, I decided to watch the DVD of the glorious El Duque ALDS clinching game against Boston. And you know what? Chris Berman is still a loudmouth.

It's the 6th anniversary, not the 5th, but I could see how you'd have more pressing matters in the cards press box these days...

SMO
:gulp:

doublem23
10-27-2011, 09:33 PM
They also had a manager "With Experience" weren't maxed on payroll full of dead weight and a pitching staff that was in place. MB may be gone, Danks may be gone and Floyd in that mix, though with his contract unlikely. Nothing KW has shown so far, makes it seem like he has a short or long term plan. IMO

That's fine, that's the same thing plenty of people were saying in 2004.

The '05 Sox opened the season with a manager with 1 year of actual coaching experience under his belt, it's not like we had Connie Mack. And that pitching staff, in retrospect, looks well put together, but back then it was a mess; outside of Buehrle and Garcia there were 3 question marks; Garland had never tapped his potential, Contreras was a reclamation project that was dumped by the Yankees the previous season, and El Duque was a 39-year-old who had missed the entire 2003 season and then tossed 84 innings in 2004. Then add the offense had lost its two best hitters, Lee and Ordonez, and replaced the with a corner outfielder who hit for no power and a perennial injury risk.

I'm not saying that the 2012 Sox are going anywhere, but this notion that everyone was drinking he Sox Kool-Aid in November 2004 is just not remembering things the way they were. People were still fuming that KW had traded Reed and Olivo, for ****'s sake, because obviously its better to just hoard prospects (THEY ALWAYS PAN OUT) than it is to acquire the best pitcher on the market.

ChiSoxGirl
10-27-2011, 09:35 PM
Yeah, he'll fit right in with the new boss.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Q6TZq05jaX8/TK_Y9sd8LoI/AAAAAAAAA54/Xj08YcZU-AU/s1600/rickettsbeer.jpg

LOL!!! :roflmao:

gosox41
10-27-2011, 09:41 PM
Cheers to Chris Deluca at the Sun-Times for his column today. Any guesses as to who the "suburban" columnist was that he calls for some especially egregious slobbering.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/8438410-452/hey-cubs-fans-baseball-execs-arent-rock-stars.html


I couldn't get the link to open, but I agree that Epstein is no rock star (or any other GM.) That being said, he is a very good GM who I think is better the Kenny.

Now that Cubs have hired real management to run their organization, I look at the Sox and have a hard to having any hope for this organization. If the Sox lose Hahn, I have even less hope with Kenny and his ego running the show.

I hate to be a downer but ever since the hiring of Ventura (and the way KW went about it) I feel like the Sox are back to being 'the other team' in this town. We were relelvant for the last 6 years but making poor baseball decisions--and and off the field--s making this team fade quickly into the background.

Bob

HomeFish
10-27-2011, 10:13 PM
Cubs are now the favorites to land Pujols, according to a Cubs fan I know.

DumpJerry
10-27-2011, 10:18 PM
Cubs are now the favorites to land Pujols, according to a Cubs fan I know.
Well, I guess that seals it.
Pena will be at First for the Cubs next year, Prince Albert will stay in St. Louis. Signing Pujols at the price he can command goes against what Theo said he will be doing.

doublem23
10-27-2011, 10:19 PM
Well, I guess that seals it.
Pena will be at First for the Cubs next year, Prince Albert will stay in St. Louis. Signing Pujols at the price he can command goes against what Theo said he will be doing.

Well, I agree that Pujols is unlikely to come to the North Side, but I doubt they will bring back Pena, either, because man... does he suck. Fielder, I could see.

WhiteSox5187
10-27-2011, 11:08 PM
Well, I agree that Pujols is unlikely to come to the North Side, but I doubt they will bring back Pena, either, because man... does he suck. Fielder, I could see.

Pena might make sense because he saved Castro from God knows how many errors over at first but I do see the Cubs making a run at Fielder.

asindc
10-28-2011, 07:47 AM
Sterling insight. I clearly see how wrong I was...

Considering that it is October 28 and that, more importantly, none of the things you speculate about have come to pass, I don't consider my previous response to be "sterling insight," just plain common sense.

g0g0
10-28-2011, 08:08 AM
I don't think the Cubs land either Fielder or Pujols, and I don't think I would want them right now as crazy as that sounds. We are going to be rebuilding the next couple of years and won't contend. Why would they come to Chicago knowing that? I think Fielder would make a great DH in the AL while Pujols will stay in St. Louis (especially if they win the WS again). I also hope they don't sign back Ramirez for anything other than his option.

SOXPHILE
10-28-2011, 08:57 AM
I don't think the Cubs land either Fielder or Pujols, and I don't think I would want them right now as crazy as that sounds. We are going to be rebuilding the next couple of years and won't contend. Why would they come to Chicago knowing that? I think Fielder would make a great DH in the AL while Pujols will stay in St. Louis (especially if they win the WS again). I also hope they don't sign back Ramirez for anything other than his option.

Exactly. That's why people in the media like Kaplan are such tools. I would like them to please explain where all this money would suddenly magically come from ? Because they would need a whole hell of a lot of it if they wanted to sign one of those guys, and still actually put 8 other guys on the field around them would would even be considered borderline major league talent. There would be no point to it for an organization that is all but admitting they are in re-build mode for the next couple of years at least.

CPditka
10-28-2011, 10:24 AM
Its begun, Theo sightings:


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-28/news/chi-sighting-theo-epstein-and-tom-ricketts-watch-world-20111027_1_tom-ricketts-todd-ricketts-patron

PatK
10-28-2011, 11:21 AM
Jeez, the World Series isn't even over and the dark clouds have already formed over next season.

SOXPHILE
10-28-2011, 11:26 AM
Its begun, Theo sightings:


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-28/news/chi-sighting-theo-epstein-and-tom-ricketts-watch-world-20111027_1_tom-ricketts-todd-ricketts-patron


Once again Theo, welcome to Hooterville.

Gaawww-leeee !! Look at that !! It's a famous person !! It's the owner and gm of the Cubbies !!! They are out and eating and drinking at a local establishment ! Wow ! That thar' sure is neato ! Woo hoo ! I wonder if Ronnie Woo Woo was wit' dem ? I wonder if they done went and got some Chicago deep dish pizza ? Let's report on it in the city's biggest paper ! What do you think they talked about ? I wonder if they'll let me have a fork or a glass that they used, to take home for a keepsake !

Goose
10-28-2011, 11:51 AM
Considering that it is October 28 and that, more importantly, none of the things you speculate about have come to pass, I don't consider my previous response to be "sterling insight," just plain common sense.

Yes. None of those things have come to pass. There are always people who, come the slow starts of April and May, say "It's early, there is a lot of baseball left to play". In June, those same people will say "It's not even the All Star break yet, give them a chance". Usually, for the Sox, it does not turn out so well in September, right?

Those things that I mentioned don't have to come to pass for the discussion to happen. If we all did that, then we would just be reciting history. I would prefer to not have the Sox operate using the hindsight method.

Some see the writing on the wall and are up front enough to bring it up. The rest of call those people Dark Clouds.

JB98
10-28-2011, 12:55 PM
Well, I agree that Pujols is unlikely to come to the North Side, but I doubt they will bring back Pena, either, because man... does he suck. Fielder, I could see.

Signing one of those big-ticket 1B would allow them to slug their way back to .500 next year. Maybe.

They would be better served to make some investments in their starting pitching, which was the worst in the National League in 2011.

Even with Pujols or Fielder in the fold, it's hard to see them winning much with a rotation of Garza, a declining Dempster, ?, ? and ?.

Of course, people like Kaplan aren't aware of this. They just want the big splash so they can go tra-la-la-la-la around the maypole.

asindc
10-28-2011, 12:59 PM
Jeez, the World Series isn't even over and the dark clouds have already formed over next season.

Why wait until we even know what kind of team we have? Let's consider it a loss season now and avoid the rush...

Yes. None of those things have come to pass. There are always people who, come the slow starts of April and May, say "It's early, there is a lot of baseball left to play". In June, those same people will say "It's not even the All Star break yet, give them a chance". Usually, for the Sox, it does not turn out so well in September, right?

Those things that I mentioned don't have to come to pass for the discussion to happen. If we all did that, then we would just be reciting history. I would prefer to not have the Sox operate using the hindsight method.

Some see the writing on the wall and are up front enough to bring it up. The rest of call those people Dark Clouds.

SI1020
10-28-2011, 01:05 PM
Yes. None of those things have come to pass. There are always people who, come the slow starts of April and May, say "It's early, there is a lot of baseball left to play". In June, those same people will say "It's not even the All Star break yet, give them a chance". Usually, for the Sox, it does not turn out so well in September, right?

Those things that I mentioned don't have to come to pass for the discussion to happen. If we all did that, then we would just be reciting history. I would prefer to not have the Sox operate using the hindsight method.

Some see the writing on the wall and are up front enough to bring it up. The rest of call those people Dark Clouds. I plead guilty.

robertks61
10-28-2011, 01:59 PM
:scratch::scratch:Its begun, Theo sightings:


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-10-28/news/chi-sighting-theo-epstein-and-tom-ricketts-watch-world-20111027_1_tom-ricketts-todd-ricketts-patron


Wow, they're pretty sharp over at the Trib! Guy just got a job in Chicago and probably will be moving to Chicago very soon. The Tribune reports he's been spotted in Chicago!

DumpJerry
10-28-2011, 02:09 PM
Signing Fielder (or Pujols) would take up money Theo wants to use to rebuild the scouting/development department. He has made it clear that is his priority. I see him following the Twins' model and not the Red Sox' model since the Cubs don't have a printing press for money in the basement of Tom Ricketts' home like the Red Sox have.

Oh, all that blather about the Tribune still owning 5% of the Cubs...you can forget it. That 5% dissipates over time. Tribco held onto 5% to save a ton of cash in capital gains taxes.

veeter
10-28-2011, 03:50 PM
Once again Theo, welcome to Hooterville.

Gaawww-leeee !! Look at that !! It's a famous person !! It's the owner and gm of the Cubbies !!! They are out and eating and drinking at a local establishment ! Wow ! That thar' sure is neato ! Woo hoo ! I wonder if Ronnie Woo Woo was wit' dem ? I wonder if they done went and got some Chicago deep dish pizza ? Let's report on it in the city's biggest paper ! What do you think they talked about ? I wonder if they'll let me have a fork or a glass that they used, to take home for a keepsake !Hilarious! All these posts have been right on. But isn't it entirely possible the Cubs sign Pujols AND Prince? Theo has figured out that if you position two Stars at first, at the same time, you thrill the fans twice as much. They would alternate taking throws, cutting down the injury factor.

Fenway
10-28-2011, 11:02 PM
Selig said tonight that he expects to settle it.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7161990/bud-selig-decide-compensation-theo-epstein

DumpJerry
10-29-2011, 05:09 AM
Evidence of Theo being overrated (something I posed to some people on Facebook):
Ever since the Devil Rays became the Rays, The Red Sox have not had much fun. The first year they were the Rays, the Red Sox were eliminated from the playoffs by the Rays (2008). In 2009, they were swept out of the ALDS 3-0. Since then, no more postseason. I guess if there are two good teams in the division other than the Red Sox, things don't go so well. The Yanks did not do too well in '08 which helped out the Red Sox cause. I guess Theo is not as good as his publicity.

SCCWS
10-29-2011, 12:46 PM
Evidence of Theo being overrated (something I posed to some people on Facebook):
Ever since the Devil Rays became the Rays, The Red Sox have not had much fun. The first year they were the Rays, the Red Sox were eliminated from the playoffs by the Rays (2008). In 2009, they were swept out of the ALDS 3-0. Since then, no more postseason. I guess if there are two good teams in the division other than the Red Sox, things don't go so well. The Yanks did not do too well in '08 which helped out the Red Sox cause. I guess Theo is not as good as his publicity.

HUH??? As a longtime White Sox fan living in Red Sox country, I am glad Theo is gone. The Red Sox spent a lot of money before Theo and never won it all. If Theo was not as good as his publicity in his last 4 years, he must have been God the first 4. What other AL team won 2 World Championships while he was GM of the Red Sox? In fact only the Cards have won 2 while Theo has been at the helm of Boston.
Now maybe the money he had available was a major factor in his success. Lets hope so now that he is in Cubbie land . But the Yankees and Phillies spend more than the Red Sox and have won less championships the last 8 years. The White Sox spent more than the Tigers and the Cubs spent more than the Cardinals this year but how did that work out?

DumpJerry
10-29-2011, 01:11 PM
HUH??? As a longtime White Sox fan living in Red Sox country, I am glad Theo is gone. The Red Sox spent a lot of money before Theo and never won it all. If Theo was not as good as his publicity in his last 4 years, he must have been God the first 4. What other AL team won 2 World Championships while he was GM of the Red Sox? In fact only the Cards have won 2 while Theo has been at the helm of Boston.
Now maybe the money he had available was a major factor in his success. Lets hope so now that he is in Cubbie land . But the Yankees and Phillies spend more than the Red Sox and have won less championships the last 8 years. The White Sox spent more than the Tigers and the Cubs spent more than the Cardinals this year but how did that work out?
My point is that he was never as good as his publicity. When it was just the Red Sox and Yankees as the only teams in the AL East who knew how to play baseball, the Red Sox had no trouble dominating (thanks to the foundation that was built before Theo was anointed). Once Tampa became a real baseball team, the Red Sox have struggled to maintain what they had the previous four years. Now he is in the NL Central where you have a Cardinal team that seems to always win, a Pirate team that is starting to come around and a Brewer that may or may not be a contender next year. I expect Theo to threaten Selig with serious bodily injury if he tries to move the Astros to the AL.

g0g0
10-30-2011, 02:46 PM
Evidence of Theo being overrated (something I posed to some people on Facebook):
Ever since the Devil Rays became the Rays, The Red Sox have not had much fun. The first year they were the Rays, the Red Sox were eliminated from the playoffs by the Rays (2008). In 2009, they were swept out of the ALDS 3-0. Since then, no more postseason. I guess if there are two good teams in the division other than the Red Sox, things don't go so well. The Yanks did not do too well in '08 which helped out the Red Sox cause. I guess Theo is not as good as his publicity.

Don't buy this reasoning at all. You have 2 of the biggest spenders in the league in the east. Rays coming around just makes it that much harder to win the division for everyone. 2 teams - 50% chance / 3 teams - 33% chance. I don't see where it's due to him failing. Especially when they've had 2 teams with 90+ and now another one is mixed in. The man has 2 rings to back up his case and you can't argue with that. I'll take 2 rings in a decade.

Lip Man 1
10-30-2011, 03:17 PM
You'd take two rings in 103 years!...

:tongue:

Lip

DumpJerry
10-30-2011, 04:33 PM
Don't buy this reasoning at all. You have 2 of the biggest spenders in the league in the east. Rays coming around just makes it that much harder to win the division for everyone. 2 teams - 50% chance / 3 teams - 33% chance. I don't see where it's due to him failing. Especially when they've had 2 teams with 90+ and now another one is mixed in. The man has 2 rings to back up his case and you can't argue with that. I'll take 2 rings in a decade.
Spending does not result in automatic wins. Just ask any Cub fans you know. That team has had some huge payrolls.

Spending smart adds to winning.

g0g0
11-01-2011, 10:47 AM
You'd take two rings in 103 years!...

:tongue:

Lip

Ouch Lip lol. :(:

:D:

Spending does not result in automatic wins. Just ask any Cub fans you know. That team has had some huge payrolls.

Spending smart adds to winning.

Exactly, which I think further illustrates that Theo has done something right to get 2 rings in a decade.

jonred
11-01-2011, 05:10 PM
People only seem to focus on Theo big budget being the only reason he has been successful. He has also been at the helm when they drafted and developed an MVP in Pedroria, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon, Buchholz and Masterson to name a few and also traded Ramirez for Beckett. Outside of the Rays, I'm not sure anyone in baseball has had more success coming out of their minor leagues during the past 10 years.

Lip Man 1
11-01-2011, 05:45 PM
This is hard to believe (well maybe not) but on Amazon.com you can buy a book for your kindle on the entire Theo Epstein saga called, "A Cubs Story..."

Unfrigginbelieveable.

:rolleyes:

It's that kind of nonsense that makes me hope he falls right on his ass with the Cubs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg/220px-Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg

"Where's your messiah now Cub-fans???"

Lip

g0g0
11-01-2011, 07:01 PM
This is hard to believe (well maybe not) but on Amazon.com you can buy a book for your kindle on the entire Theo Epstein saga called, "A Cubs Story..."

Unfrigginbelieveable.

:rolleyes:

It's that kind of nonsense that makes me hope he falls right on his ass with the Cubs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg/220px-Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg

"Where's your messiah now Cub-fans???"

Lip

Wow, that didn't take long! A better title would have been 'The 9th Coming', 'an Idiots Guide to a World Series Win' or 'Theo and his New Toy.' :D:

Fenway
11-01-2011, 07:12 PM
The big winner in the Red Sox Theo saga are the 2 all sports stations in Boston

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/news/mediaBiz/?p=1218&srvc=blogs&position=recent

mzh
11-01-2011, 07:27 PM
http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/theo-epstein-disgusted-to-find-cubs-playing-in-old,26488/

Classic :rolling:

Fenway
11-02-2011, 02:44 PM
GAMMONS: BOSTON WON'T GET MUCH FROM CUBS

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21151961/gammons-mm-sox-wont-get-much-cubs

sox230
11-02-2011, 06:27 PM
This is hard to believe (well maybe not) but on Amazon.com you can buy a book for your kindle on the entire Theo Epstein saga called, "A Cubs Story..."

Unfrigginbelieveable.

:rolleyes:

It's that kind of nonsense that makes me hope he falls right on his ass with the Cubs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg/220px-Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg

"Where's your messiah now Cub-fans???"

Lip
I could not have said it any better.

DSpivack
11-02-2011, 06:35 PM
This is hard to believe (well maybe not) but on Amazon.com you can buy a book for your kindle on the entire Theo Epstein saga called, "A Cubs Story..."

Unfrigginbelieveable.

:rolleyes:

It's that kind of nonsense that makes me hope he falls right on his ass with the Cubs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg/220px-Edward_G_Robinson_in_The_Ten_Commandments_film_tra iler.jpg

"Where's your messiah now Cub-fans???"

Lip

Pretty easy way for the Trib to make a quick buck off of the sheeple.

Frontman
11-03-2011, 05:11 PM
As much as I said Rick Telander is a waste; that now PALES in comparison to David Schuster comparing Theo and his "boys" reuniting to the Beatles reuniting.

A: The Beatles never did reunite, Schu.

and

B: The Beatles weren't a two album wonder.

While I'm interested to see what Theo can do with the Cubs; the thought of comparing him to arguably the greatest rock and roll band ever makes me realize just how stupid the Cub fans who are also reporters in this town are.

DumpJerry
11-03-2011, 05:34 PM
As much as I said Rick Telander is a waste; that now PALES in comparison to David Schuster comparing Theo and his "boys" reuniting to the Beatles reuniting.

A: The Beatles never did reunite, Schu.

and

B: The Beatles weren't a two album wonder.

While I'm interested to see what Theo can do with the Cubs; the thought of comparing him to arguably the greatest rock and roll band ever makes me realize just how stupid the Cub fans who are also reporters in this town are.
Come on, Front, the Cubs and Beatles were both brought to greatness by a manager named Epstein.:redneck

Brian26
11-03-2011, 09:23 PM
As much as I said Rick Telander is a waste; that now PALES in comparison to David Schuster comparing Theo and his "boys" reuniting to the Beatles reuniting.

Schuster is approaching clown-level like George Ofman when he guaranteed on 7-31-2004 that the Nomar acquisition would lead to a Cubs World title.

DrCrawdad
11-03-2011, 09:26 PM
Come on, Front, the Cubs and Beatles were both brought to greatness by a manager named Epstein.:redneck

:clap:

Frontman
11-04-2011, 04:31 PM
Schuster is approaching clown-level like George Ofman when he guaranteed on 7-31-2004 that the Nomar acquisition would lead to a Cubs World title.

Schuster also annoys me how he mocks his followers on Facebook. I can't even repeat a few comments sent my way due to the language he used when I pointed out he as well as other members of the media should stop bringing up Steve Bartman and let the poor guy live in peace.

Steelrod
11-14-2011, 03:54 PM
The Cubs have now replaced Jim Hendry with 4 people. I know it isn't player payroll. but money is money!