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Lip Man 1
10-22-2011, 11:28 AM
Says if he trades players it will only be for "major league ready" talent, not single or double A players.

Partially "all in" again in 2012?????

http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/

Lip

DumpJerry
10-22-2011, 11:41 AM
I'm disappointed. Nowhere does he say that he will read WSI to show him what should be done.

DirtySox
10-22-2011, 11:54 AM
Brilliant.

NardiWasHere
10-22-2011, 12:09 PM
I like it. This makes the most sense to me.

Everyone agrees the team underachieved last year.

Most people would also agree that if the team played to its expected level, it would have been pretty good.

You can't move the big/bad pieces (Rios, Dunn etc.)...

Why try to blow it up if you cant really blow it up entirely, especially if the team is pretty close to bouncing back?

KMcMahon817
10-22-2011, 02:28 PM
Cool. You shouldn't trade players just to trade them. Trading Danks makes little sense to me. His value is likely as low as it has been since 2007. If the SOX start 2012 poorly, then deal him. I still think Quentin will get traded and I would not be surprised to see Floyd or Thornton go. But, I agree with Kenny. Why trade a proven guy for some AA guy that may never make it....if you're going to trade them, get a guy who is closer to producing at the major league level.

mzh
10-22-2011, 03:29 PM
It sounds to me like they think De Aza is for real. I like this.

LITTLE NELL
10-22-2011, 03:34 PM
Cool. You shouldn't trade players just to trade them. Trading Danks makes little sense to me. His value is likely as low as it has been since 2007. If the SOX start 2012 poorly, then deal him. I still think Quentin will get traded and I would not be surprised to see Floyd or Thornton go. But, I agree with Kenny. Why trade a proven guy for some AA guy that may never make it....if you're going to trade them, get a guy who is closer to producing at the major league level.

I think with the salaries that are commited to various players it would be very hard for a rebuild. I'm counting on a comeback player of the year for Dunne and we re-sign Buerhle.
With a little tweaking we just might see All-In Part II.
I would not trade TCQ, Danks or Floyd. Put TCQ back in LF where he had a great year in 2008. The Tank plays RF and DeAza is our new lead off man and center fielder. Lillibridge is our 4th outfielder and replaces the Tank in the late innings for defense and gives the other guys a rest once in awhile.
Our starters were pretty damn good and led or were close to the top in quality starts last year until the lack of run support wore them down in September.
The big question is what to do with Rios, I'm saying prayers that some fool team takes him off our hands. If not he would have to be an insurance policy if Dunne stinks again. In that case we could have a rotating DH with Rios, the Tank and TCQ with the other 2 in the outfield that day.

voodoochile
10-22-2011, 03:36 PM
I like it. This makes the most sense to me.

Everyone agrees the team underachieved last year.

Most people would also agree that if the team played to its expected level, it would have been pretty good.

You can't move the big/bad pieces (Rios, Dunn etc.)...

Why try to blow it up if you cant really blow it up entirely, especially if the team is pretty close to bouncing back?

Agreed on all accounts. You don't devlop talent at the major league level. The Sox don't have the pieces to rebuild with at the moment, so the best and most obvious plan is to try to keep the current window open and tweak the current roster. As you said, the Sox cannot trade Dunn, Peavy or Rios, so why not give it another shot and hope those players play to their career averages? What's the alternative, 3 years of sucking and then maybe another run? Won't they be at the same place in 3 years anyway?

palehozenychicty
10-22-2011, 05:12 PM
It's really their only option, since our position players aren't valuable far as contracts. The franchise is frustrating right now. We're still waiting for career norms.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

SoxSpeed22
10-22-2011, 05:35 PM
Trading Floyd or Danks would only work if the deal is right. I think Thorny could bring a nice return. I would also rather deal Quentin at the deadline next year. This might be more like 2008 than 1987. There are plenty of options, they just have to make sure not to feel trapped.

A. Cavatica
10-22-2011, 07:20 PM
This doesn't sound "all in" at all to me.

They're going to trade any older/more established players that bring a sufficient return, hoping to build around Viciedo and De Aza and Beckham and Morel.

I think they're overvaluing that "nucleus", but they don't have a lot of options.

central44
10-22-2011, 09:29 PM
I also like this. Subtracting Ozzie (who checked out in June and was apparantly a distraction all year) and Walker (who is terrible) and replacing them with even average people could help the team immensely.

Plus, if Dunn and Rios rebound even a little bit, the difference could be huge.

I'd rather give this team one more shot to prove last year's awfulness was a fluke before starting a rebuild that might take years.

Sargeant79
10-22-2011, 11:01 PM
We're not going to keep the salary number the same as last year. Some of the reduction will come in the form of guys like Tony Pena, Juan Pierre, and Jason Frasor being replaced by guys making the minimum. But players still will need to be moved to get to a lower number. If that has to happen, the time to move Danks and Quentin is now.

Both will likely wind up with salaries somewhere around $8 mil a year, and neither is likely to be brought back beyond this year. Each will also bring back some solid talent, possibly even the major league ready, young, potentially impact players that Kenny Williams is talking about in this article.

And moving both of them doesn't necessarily mean phoning it in next year either. Viciedo will replace Quentin and there's a decent chance he can put up 20-25 HRs next year. If clearing these two salaries allows you to bring Buehrle back and the trades bring back a solid young starting pitcher, we may not necessarily be worse off in the rotation either.

captain54
10-23-2011, 12:11 AM
I'm disappointed. Nowhere does he say that he will read WSI to show him what should be done.

One first round and out playoff appearance in 6 yrs. Maybe he should start taking suggestions.

soltrain21
10-23-2011, 02:24 PM
I'm disappointed. Nowhere does he say that he will read WSI to show him what should be done.

So do you have a contract that makes you use this joke at least once a week?

GoGoCrede
10-23-2011, 03:19 PM
I'm disappointed. Nowhere does he say that he will read WSI to show him what should be done.

I say he should gather WSI at the Cell and use the Fan-O-Meter to decide what to do. :)

Hitmen77
10-23-2011, 05:36 PM
It's really their only option, since our position players aren't valuable far as contracts. The franchise is frustrating right now. We're still waiting for career norms.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

I agree, this may be their best option. "Blowing it up" and trying to re-stock with talented lower level minor league players would probably be a disaster for this franchise.

Picking up MLB or near MLB ready players seems to be Kenny's strong point over the last 4-5 seasons. So, maybe they can salvage something out of this huge mess they've found themselves in.

...still, I don't see where hiring someone who has never even coached in the minors fits in with this plan to only trade to MLB ready players. To me, hiring Robin sounds like a team that expects to not be a contender for the next couple of years while he learns the ropes.

I guess we'll just have to see what unfolds this winter.

Fenway
10-23-2011, 06:45 PM
Listen for yourself

http://espn.go.com/chicago/radio/archive?id=3269205

asindc
10-23-2011, 07:16 PM
If KW is willing to take suggestions, I sincerely hope he does not from anyone posting here, including me.

Frater Perdurabo
10-23-2011, 07:19 PM
If KW is willing to take suggestions, I sincerely hope he does not from anyone posting here, including me.

Not even my suggestion to trade Rios for Josh Hamilton, and Dunn for Pujols? :)

asindc
10-23-2011, 07:23 PM
Not even my suggestion to trade Rios for Josh Hamilton, and Dunn for Pujols? :)

Only if we also get Feliz and Carpenter in the deals. :smile:

Nellie_Fox
10-24-2011, 12:33 AM
If KW is willing to take suggestions, I sincerely hope he does not from anyone posting here, including me.:thumbsup:

October26
10-24-2011, 09:06 AM
I say he should gather WSI at the Cell and use the Fan-O-Meter to decide what to do. :)

:yup: Absolutely! :thumbsup:

Golden Sox
10-24-2011, 09:31 AM
I keep hearing that the Brewers are unhappy with there 2nd baseman Weeks. Perhaps trading Rios and Beckham for Weeks would solve alot of our problems.

kittle42
10-24-2011, 12:00 PM
I keep hearing that the Brewers are unhappy with there 2nd baseman Weeks. Perhaps trading Rios and Beckham for Weeks would solve alot of our problems.

YES! Our first toss-names-out-there trade idea of the offseason!

WhiteSox5187
10-24-2011, 12:16 PM
Am I the only one who is unnerved (maybe disappointed is the better word) that Kenny considers Viciedo, De Aza, Flowers, and Morel a "nucleus"? I think that some of these contracts we have are so unmovable we might do another "rebuild on the fly" sort of thing we did in 2009.

russ99
10-24-2011, 12:21 PM
I keep hearing that the Brewers are unhappy with there 2nd baseman Weeks. Perhaps trading Rios and Beckham for Weeks would solve alot of our problems.

Interesting. Weeks' contract is almost as bad as Rios' so that might work...

TheVulture
10-25-2011, 04:46 PM
Am I the only one who is unnerved (maybe disappointed is the better word) that Kenny considers Viciedo, De Aza, Flowers, and Morel a "nucleus"? .

Viciedo looks like he could be a top hitter. Throw in Ramirez and Beckham, at least the rest should add up to a pretty good defensive core. I don't know, trying to look on the bright side.

DirtySox
10-25-2011, 04:52 PM
Interesting. Weeks' contract is almost as bad as Rios' so that might work...

Huh? Rickie Weeks is good at baseball. Great even. A 6.5 fWAR last year, and a 3.7 this year. 7th best 2B in baseball this season. Why on earth would they take on Rios and downgrade to Beckham? Lordy... Talk about asinine.

KMcMahon817
10-25-2011, 05:03 PM
Huh? Rickie Weeks is good at baseball. Great even. A 6.5 fWAR last year, and a 3.7 this year. 7th best 2B in baseball this season. Why on earth would they take on Rios and downgrade to Beckham? Lordy... Talk about asinine.

I agree with you, but that is a deal that may have been somewhat realistic just a short 8 months ago.

BainesHOF
10-25-2011, 06:33 PM
I don't see how anyone could consider Beckham to be part of our nucleus at this point. The team has bigger problems so second base probably won't be addressed for 2012. Launching Walker bought Beckham another year.

De Aza is a player. A big indication of of the kind of manager Ventura will be is who we plays in center. De Aza is our best defensive outfielder and should start in center. It'll be a bad sign about Ventura if Rios is back in center.

SCCWS
10-25-2011, 08:08 PM
De Aza is a player. A big indication of of the kind of manager Ventura will be is who we plays in center. De Aza is our best defensive outfielder and should start in center. It'll be a bad sign about Ventura if Rios is back in center.


I would hope Ventura puts the one who has the best spring in center to start the season. He should go in w a clean slate next year and make his decisions based on what he sees.

cheezheadsoxfan
10-25-2011, 09:47 PM
I say he should gather WSI at the Cell and use the Fan-O-Meter to decide what to do. :)

This I like! Has a Bill Veeck quality to it.:cool:

russ99
10-26-2011, 09:48 AM
Huh? Rickie Weeks is good at baseball. Great even. A 6.5 fWAR last year, and a 3.7 this year. 7th best 2B in baseball this season. Why on earth would they take on Rios and downgrade to Beckham? Lordy... Talk about asinine.

If Fielder ends up leaving, they may need another hitter. Also, this is predicated on the Brewers wanting to ditch Weeks.

Beckham has scratched the surface of what he can do, could be a risk worth taking. Only a year and a half ago, everyone was asking for him in trades. Rios has the previous year's numbers as a possibility of what he could do in 2012.

Trades don't always make sense based on only what happened in the year preceding the trade. GMs look at bigger picture and what they can do in the future.

russ99
11-11-2011, 09:51 AM
Very cryptic comments by Kenny about next year's payroll yesterday:

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20111110/sports/711109748/

So I wonder what "a little bit less" means? Last year we had a $128M payroll.

Currently, the Sox payroll obligations for 2012 are $94M give or take a few million for small raises for 1st-3rd year players.

That's also not counting Danks and Quentin. Arbitration boosts for them should push up us to around $107-9M, not counting our free agents.

eriqjaffe
11-11-2011, 09:58 AM
So I wonder what "a little bit less" means? Last year we had a $128M payroll.You can't spend $128,000,000 when you only have $127,999,999.50.

TomBradley72
11-11-2011, 10:46 AM
I don't see how anyone could consider Beckham to be part of our nucleus at this point. The team has bigger problems so second base probably won't be addressed for 2012. Launching Walker bought Beckham another year.

De Aza is a player. A big indication of of the kind of manager Ventura will be is who we plays in center. De Aza is our best defensive outfielder and should start in center. It'll be a bad sign about Ventura if Rios is back in center.

Viciedo or Quentin/De Aza/Rios is our best OF alignment based the on the current roster-