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102605
10-19-2011, 09:26 PM
It looks like Yu Darvish will officially ask to be posted following the NPB playoffs.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/sports/news/20111019p2g00m0sp127000c.html

http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/177050-report-darvish-ready-to-join-mlb

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/19/yu-darvish-to-formally-ask-to-be-posted/

I think this guy is the real deal.

DirtySox
10-19-2011, 09:36 PM
It looks like Yu Darvish will officially ask to be posted following the NPB playoffs.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/sports/news/20111019p2g00m0sp127000c.html

http://www.thescore.com/home/articles/177050-report-darvish-ready-to-join-mlb

I think this guy is the real deal.

Toronto is supposedly very interested. I hope they get him.

102605
10-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Toronto is supposedly very interested. I hope they get him.

Sounds like Texas, Toronto, NYY and Washington are the most serious players. I've heard some stuff about Boston too but I doubt they go down that road again.

I bet the Yankees end up throwing the bank at him.

pythons007
10-20-2011, 08:23 AM
Has there been a Janpanese pitcher that has come over here and played well? I mean Dice-K was more a less a flash in the pan than anything.

Is there any difference between Dice-K and Darvish?

doublem23
10-20-2011, 09:06 AM
Has there been a Janpanese pitcher that has come over here and played well? I mean Dice-K was more a less a flash in the pan than anything.

Is there any difference between Dice-K and Darvish?

Seems like the majority of successful pitchers to transition from Japan to the Majors are relievers; Kaz Sasaki, Takashi Saito, Akinori Otsuka, Shigetoshi Hasegawa, Hideki Okajima... I guess Hideo Nomo was better than average for a lot of his career, but kind of a dissapointment because of the way he exploded on the scene in 1995. Also, Hiroki Kuroda's W/L record is underwhelming, but his peripherals have been solid for 4 years starting in Los Angeles. Seems to be a Japanese version of Mark Buehrle... Eats a lot if innings but doesn't win as many games as his overall numbers would lead you to believe.

102605
10-20-2011, 09:33 AM
Can this be moved from What's the Score to Talking Baseball? I had originally used a thread from last season that was already in this forum but it got split.

eriqjaffe
10-20-2011, 11:51 AM
Has there been a Janpanese pitcher that has come over here and played well?Hideo Nomo put together a fairly solid career, although he had some pretty mediocre years in the middle.

TheVulture
11-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Nomo was a beast with the Dodgers at the beginning and end of his career.

TheVulture
11-02-2011, 10:13 PM
Is there any difference between Dice-K and Darvish?

No, all Japanese pitchers are the same.


Dice-K NPB ERA: 2.95
Darvish: 2.12

SoxSpeed22
11-02-2011, 10:22 PM
Most pitchers to come from Japan were finesse guys with some gimmick pitch to them. Darvish is much more of a power pitcher, his fastball and splitter look the same coming out of his hand. His fastball sometimes rises, but sometimes, it stays straight. His curve ball is also tough to deal with. He does have a bit of an inverted W, it's not real obvious, but it is noticable. I think he's for real.

kittle42
11-03-2011, 10:05 AM
No, all Japanese pitchers are the same.

Well played!

mzh
11-03-2011, 05:11 PM
I think the deal with Daisuke is that he was a slightly above average pitcher whose stock skyrocketed with the hype surrounding the World Baseball Classic, not very different from March Madness turning a mid-late first rounder into a top 5 pick. Darvish seems to be the real deal. His numbers, even for Japan, are reminiscent of Maddux in the 90s.

102605
12-15-2011, 08:07 AM
The bidding for Darvish ended yesterday at 5pm EST. There are now 4 days of waiting until the winner is announced.

It sounds like the Yankees, Nationals, Blue Jays and Cubs are the primary bidders.

TommyJohn
12-15-2011, 09:21 AM
Has there been a Janpanese pitcher that has come over here and played well? I mean Dice-K was more a less a flash in the pan than anything.

Is there any difference between Dice-K and Darvish?

Dice-K was a flash in the pan, but he did make an invaluable contribution to baseball, as noted by the east coast media-in 2007, he was the first Japanese player to be on a World Series Champion.

PatK
12-15-2011, 10:39 AM
Dice-K was a flash in the pan, but he did make an invaluable contribution to baseball, as noted by the east coast media-in 2007, he was the first Japanese player to be on a World Series Champion.

Teal?

TommyJohn
12-15-2011, 10:59 AM
Teal?

Was it needed?

A. Cavatica
12-15-2011, 11:08 AM
Dice-K was a flash in the pan

Coop could fix him -- if Boston paid 80% of his salary.

soxfanreggie
12-15-2011, 03:49 PM
The Yankees just won the posting for Hiroyuki Nakajima (SS) for $2.5 million. I wouldn't see Darvish going for less than 10-15 times that. If Dice-K netted $50 million in posting, you have to think Darvish could exceed that. The Yankees may have been bitten in their return on investment in Kei Igawa, but I don't think that will stop them from acquiring someone who could be a top-end starter and a potential key cog for a few more W.S. wins.

A. Cavatica
12-15-2011, 07:20 PM
The Yankees just won the posting for Hiroyuki Nakajima (SS) for $2.5 million. I wouldn't see Darvish going for less than 10-15 times that. If Dice-K netted $50 million in posting, you have to think Darvish could exceed that. The Yankees may have been bitten in their return on investment in Kei Igawa, but I don't think that will stop them from acquiring someone who could be a top-end starter and a potential key cog for a few more W.S. wins.

Matsuzaka had a Strasburg-esque level of hype around him. Remember the "gyroball"? Plus that $50 million posting fee is now seen as a mistake. I would be very surprised if Darvish even matches it.

CHISOXFAN13
12-16-2011, 09:07 AM
Looks like Toronto won the bidding process.

DirtySox
12-16-2011, 10:24 AM
Looks like Toronto won the bidding process.

Love what Alex is doing in Toronto. They aren't that far off.

palehozenychicty
12-16-2011, 01:51 PM
Love what Alex is doing in Toronto. They aren't that far off.

I'd be worried if I were the beasts of the East. If their young starters mature, they could make some real noise.

TheVulture
12-16-2011, 03:12 PM
Dice-K was a flash in the pan, but he did make an invaluable contribution to baseball, as noted by the east coast media-in 2007, he was the first Japanese player to be on a World Series Champion.

Is this White Sox Interactive for crying out loud?

I seem to recall another Japanese player on a certain World Series Champion that preceded Dice-K.

TheVulture
12-16-2011, 03:15 PM
Was it needed?

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/subgenius88/GoochThrows.jpg

TommyGavinFloyd
12-16-2011, 03:38 PM
I'd be worried if I were the beasts of the East. If their young starters mature, they could make some real noise.

I think once the 2nd wild card is fully in place that Toronto and the Rays will be extremely happy.

soxinem1
12-16-2011, 09:57 PM
I have always had suspicion of Japanese pitchers, especially starters, looking to play MLB.

The late Hideki Irabu was supposed to be some awesome flame-thrower who despite a few solid moments, was no better than your average swingman. NYY wasted millions on him.

Hideo Nomo had decent hard stuff when LAD first brought him to the majors, but it was over within a couple seasons. He bounced about quite a bit and couldn't even make the CHC when they were dying for pitching. But just like any other pitcher with some trick pitch, eventually they lose their effectiveness.

Dice K was a huge disappointment, especially after the huge $$$ needed for just the posting fee.

Now it looks like TOR paid about $48 million just to get the rights to Darvish. Is making this type of investment really solid OVER THE TERM of the contract really smart for a team that has had the revenue problems they've experienced for several decades?

Just like the can't-miss power and BA Fukudome was going to have, and the huge K totals Matsuzaka was supposed to tally, I have a feeling history will repeat itself with this guy too, and within 3-4 seasons max he will be solved by MLB hitters and be yet another over-hyped import.

TommyGavinFloyd
12-17-2011, 01:05 AM
I have always had suspicion of Japanese pitchers, especially starters, looking to play MLB.

The late Hideki Irabu was supposed to be some awesome flame-thrower who despite a few solid moments, was no better than your average swingman. NYY wasted millions on him.

Hideo Nomo had decent hard stuff when LAD first brought him to the majors, but it was over within a couple seasons. He bounced about quite a bit and couldn't even make the CHC when they were dying for pitching. But just like any other pitcher with some trick pitch, eventually they lose their effectiveness.

Dice K was a huge disappointment, especially after the huge $$$ needed for just the posting fee.

Now it looks like TOR paid about $48 million just to get the rights to Darvish. Is making this type of investment really solid OVER THE TERM of the contract really smart for a team that has had the revenue problems they've experienced for several decades?

Just like the can't-miss power and BA Fukudome was going to have, and the huge K totals Matsuzaka was supposed to tally, I have a feeling history will repeat itself with this guy too, and within 3-4 seasons max he will be solved by MLB hitters and be yet another over-hyped import.

I don't know if he will be worth it on the field, but when your owners make a profit nearing 4 billion per year, what's a 50 million dollar fee? Especially considering the relatively untapped Asian market that is in the Toronto area, and money they'd make abroad. It's a pretty smart business decision and is a no brainer when you already have huge sums of money on hand. If Darvish fails, he fails, but they will make that 50 million back, and then some.

Steelrod
12-17-2011, 03:10 AM
I don't know if he will be worth it on the field, but when your owners make a profit nearing 4 billion per year, what's a 50 million dollar fee?
How do you figure that?

TommyJohn
12-17-2011, 04:38 PM
Is this White Sox Interactive for crying out loud?

I seem to recall another Japanese player on a certain World Series Champion that preceded Dice-K.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r115/subgenius88/GoochThrows.jpg


I'm happy that you remembered him. Clearly you are not a member of the East Coast media.

cards press box
12-17-2011, 06:46 PM
There is a Japanese player who played on a World Champion after Tadahito Iguchi but before Matsuzaka: So Tighuci of the 2006 World Champion St. Louis Cardinals.

http://myhero.com/images/guest/g43161/hero37777/g43161_u40291_FR9VU7wm.jpg

Remember me?

soxinem1
12-18-2011, 09:56 AM
I don't know if he will be worth it on the field, but when your owners make a profit nearing 4 billion per year, what's a 50 million dollar fee? Especially considering the relatively untapped Asian market that is in the Toronto area, and money they'd make abroad. It's a pretty smart business decision and is a no brainer when you already have huge sums of money on hand. If Darvish fails, he fails, but they will make that 50 million back, and then some.

TOR makes $4 billion a year? Really? :scratch: Why are they such a low-budget team then?

I believe NYY might be the only team to draw that kind of TOTAL revenue, and they posted low on the guy, albeit starving for starting pitching.

Not sure your rationale works in this case.

KRS1
12-18-2011, 04:27 PM
TOR makes $4 billion a year? Really? :scratch: Why are they such a low-budget team then?

I believe NYY might be the only team to draw that kind of TOTAL revenue, and they posted low on the guy, albeit starving for starting pitching.

Not sure your rationale works in this case.

Considering all of baseball made $6.1 billion in 2010, I seriously doubt that figure relates to baseball operations.

DSpivack
12-18-2011, 04:30 PM
Considering all of baseball made $6.1 billion in 2010, I seriously doubt that figure relates to baseball operations.

I assumed that was referring to the team's owners, Rogers. Don't they dominate cable in Canada?

#1swisher
12-19-2011, 11:29 AM
Announcement today @ 8PM. SI reporting the bid exceeds the Red Sox bid of $51.1 million.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111219&content_id=26194904&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb&partnerId=aw-6169176533740924789-996

DirtySox
12-19-2011, 11:55 AM
Sounds more and more like it's the Jays. Darvish, Romero, and Morrow, who pitched MUCH better than his ERA indicated last year (3.64 FIP, 3.53 xFIP) is a formidable front three. I wouldn't be surprised if they trade for another starter as well. With the best farm system in the game, they could absolutely grab Gio. They also had discussions about Danks and Floyd with the White Sox. The Jays should be fun to watch next year.

doublem23
12-19-2011, 12:27 PM
The Jays should be fun to watch next year.

Nothing more fun than watching a team hopelessly spin its wheels to the tune of 75 wins and a 4th place finish.

DirtySox
12-19-2011, 12:48 PM
Nothing more fun than watching a team hopelessly spin its wheels to the tune of 75 wins and a 4th place finish.

If you say so Doub. I'll have fun watching the trio of pitchers noted above, Brett Lawrie, Sergio, and Jose Bautista, despite the record. Just as I'll have fun watching the White Sox spin their wheels to the tune of 75 wins. I like baseball. :shrug:

DSpivack
12-19-2011, 01:13 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/blue-jays-hope-to-score-in-yu-darvish-bidding-war-121811

#1swisher
12-19-2011, 04:40 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/blue-jays-hope-to-score-in-yu-darvish-bidding-war-121811


High bidder announced by Tuesday @ 5pm ET

DirtySox
12-19-2011, 08:34 PM
JSoccerMagazine JSoccer Magazine
Hearing that #NipponHam #Fighters will announce acceptance winning bid (but not team or amount?) for #Darvish within 30 min. here in Japan!
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
Retweeted by DKnobler

DirtySox
12-19-2011, 10:07 PM
JeffPassan Jeff Passan
The Texas Rangers have won the posting auction of Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish with a record $51.7M bid, sources tell Yahoo! Sports.
13 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply

DirtySox
12-19-2011, 10:07 PM
Now expect Toronto to go hard after Gio.

cws05champ
12-19-2011, 10:22 PM
JeffPassan Jeff Passan
The Texas Rangers have won the posting auction of Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish with a record $51.7M bid, sources tell Yahoo! Sports.
13 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Wow....huge bid! You think they could have spent $25M more to get CJ wilson back for 5 years.

Who leaves their rotation now? Feliz back to the pen, or do they move Harrison?

DirtySox
12-19-2011, 10:23 PM
Wow....huge bid! You think they could have spent $25M more to get CJ wilson back for 5 years.

Who leaves their rotation now? Feliz back to the pen, or do they move Harrison?


JimBowdenESPNxm JIM BOWDEN
TX has 30-days to sign Darvish...rotation will look like: Darvish, Holland, Feliz, Harrison, Lewis...with Ogando to bullpen w/Adams/Nathan
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

A. Cavatica
12-19-2011, 10:27 PM
If you say so Doub. I'll have fun watching the trio of pitchers noted above, Brett Lawrie, Sergio, and Jose Bautista, despite the record. Just as I'll have fun watching the White Sox spin their wheels to the tune of 75 wins. I like baseball. :shrug:

It's early for pre-season predictions, but 75 seems high.

soxfanreggie
12-19-2011, 11:11 PM
It's early for pre-season predictions, but 75 seems high.

It definitely depends on if we're talking a White Sox team with or without Danks, Floyd, and/or Quentin and then who we would have starting in their place. I could easily see at least one of those guys not on the opening day roster of the Sox, and it wouldn't surprise me if at least two are gone by the end of next season.

As far as Darvish, a very risky move for the Rangers but one that could pay off if he turns out to match his hype. This move could make someone in their front office look absolutely brilliant or like a complete fool. One thing it does do is give them a huge "in" to the Japanese market.

Hendu
12-19-2011, 11:51 PM
Wow....huge bid! You think they could have spent $25M more to get CJ wilson back for 5 years.


For whatever reason, the Rangers never seemed too enamored with CJ Wilson. With all the money from their tv deal, you'd think they would have at least made an offer to CJ.

But what's crazier, paying CJ $75 million or going for a complete gamble on Yu Darvish at $100 mil or so? Tough call. I guess there's more upside to Yu, but it's a ton of money to risk either way.

DSpivack
12-20-2011, 12:01 AM
For whatever reason, the Rangers never seemed too enamored with CJ Wilson. With all the money from their tv deal, you'd think they would have at least made an offer to CJ.

But what's crazier, paying CJ $75 million or going for a complete gamble on Yu Darvish at $100 mil or so? Tough call. I guess there's more upside to Yu, but it's a ton of money to risk either way.

Perhaps there will be more ad money coming in from Japan and Japanese media.

Fenway
12-20-2011, 05:57 AM
Perhaps there will be more ad money coming in from Japan and Japanese media.

The Red Sox found with Dice-K that there wasn't that big a boost in revenue from Japan. They pretty much stayed out of this posting because of being burnt before.

Anaheim and Texas are playing with Rupert's $$$$$.

It is impossible to compare TV contracts - Red Sox own 80% of NESN and the Yankees 60% of YES....but there is no way of figuring out how much each telecast is worth.

soxinem1
12-20-2011, 08:05 AM
I still find it amazing that MLB teams go nuts over 'dominating' pitchers coming from a league that is populated by AA and AAA-type hitters with slider-speed bats.

All told, TEX will be paying over $100 million for about 3-4 years of this guy.

Unreal.

Fenway
12-20-2011, 08:07 AM
I still find it amazing that MLB teams go nuts over 'dominating' pitchers coming from a league that is populated by AA and AAA-type hitters with slider-speed bats.

All told, TEX will be paying over $100 million for about 3-4 years of this guy.

Unreal.

Valentine told the Red Sox not to bother. :scratch:

asindc
12-20-2011, 08:34 AM
Valentine told the Red Sox not to bother. :scratch:

Smart decision. I don't know why MLB teams don't just tell the Japanese teams to **** off after the 'bidding' gets beyond what they could sign a first round draft pick for.

Fenway
12-20-2011, 09:08 AM
You have to wonder if Texas was told what Toronto bid as the Rangers won it by $100,000

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/bluejays/article/1104606--cox-life-after-darvish-tricky-business-for-jays

Hendu
12-20-2011, 11:35 AM
You have to wonder if Texas was told what Toronto bid as the Rangers won it by $100,000

http://www.thestar.com/sports/baseball/mlb/bluejays/article/1104606--cox-life-after-darvish-tricky-business-for-jays

According to the article, that number was a hypothetical figure, to differentiate whether the Blue Jays just lost out (by 100k) or were badly outbid - and whether they should disclose their bid number to show Jays fans how aggressively they went after Darvish. Or am I missing something?

soxinem1
12-20-2011, 06:15 PM
Valentine told the Red Sox not to bother. :scratch:

Probably right after Bobby V told the rest of the world press that Darvish was 'The Real Deal'.

Honestly, you had two prime contenders in real need of starting pitching (BOS and NYY) and the fish were not biting.

John Henry and The Steinbrenner's said: 'Fool me once, okay...... Fool me twice.... NOT!!

SoxandtheCityTee
12-20-2011, 06:28 PM
They've got their minds set on Yu,
They've got their minds set on Yu
But it's gonna take money
A whole lotta spending money . . .

DSpivack
12-20-2011, 07:17 PM
Smart decision. I don't know why MLB teams don't just tell the Japanese teams to **** off after the 'bidding' gets beyond what they could sign a first round draft pick for.

I view the whole bidding system as somewhat similar as to how player movement works in the soccer world. There, instead of players being traded for one another, they're dealt for money, theoretically that players value when you take into account their contract. So players closer to free agency (though it's not called that) get dealt for less than those signed to long-term deals. Players signing as free agents is unusual; mostly that occurs when their contract is up as veterans into their 30s, or when they sign their first professional contract at 18 (as clubs develop their own youth, from the very youngest ages in academies). Thus, there is a fee paid (instead of prospects traded) from one team to another that reflects the player's theoretical value, and once acquired teams often re-negotiate that player's contract (so that they're paid more, as lesser teams often develop talent and then make money in transferring those players to bigger franchises).

I see the posting system as similar in some ways to that. One difference is that the player's contract with their Japanese team is irrelevant, and a deal must be agreed upon with the MLB team in order to acquire them. One reason why the fees have become so large is that, as I understand it, it takes quite a long time for players in Japan to become free agents, longer than in MLB (the exact length I am not sure of, maybe 9 years to MLB's 6?). Thus, players like Darvish or Matsuzaka or Ichiro would be well into their prime, at thus at peak value/cost, than they would be at a younger age. Maybe that's why other Japanese players that move over are well into their 30s and thus free agents? I'm not exactly sure of that, but it seems to be the case from what little I have gathered.

Fenway
12-20-2011, 07:45 PM
Probably right after Bobby V told the rest of the world press that Darvish was 'The Real Deal'.

Honestly, you had two prime contenders in real need of starting pitching (BOS and NYY) and the fish were not biting.

John Henry and The Steinbrenner's said: 'Fool me once, okay...... Fool me twice.... NOT!!

I think it is fair to say that if ANYBODY in the US has a handle on Japanese baseball talent it would be Bobby V. Boston is hopeful that he can salvage something out of Dice-K in the second half of 2012.

Texas apparently came to find out that Wilson tired badly in September/October. Maybe Nolan will simply let Darvish train the way he always has and not try to change the routine like Boston did with Dice-K.

The 2 major leagues in Japan are by many scouts thinking AA and a half. Ichiro and Matsui were bona fide MLB players -others not exactly.

Don't forget that Shingo Takatsu was exposed early enough in 2005 that the White Sox had to bring up Jenks -now how did that work out?

DSpivack
12-20-2011, 07:48 PM
I think it is fair to say that if ANYBODY in the US has a handle on Japanese baseball talent it would be Bobby V. Boston is hopeful that he can salvage something out of Dice-K in the second half of 2012.

Texas apparently came to find out that Wilson tired badly in September/October. Maybe Nolan will simply let Darvish train the way he always has and not try to change the routine like Boston did with Dice-K.

The 2 major leagues in Japan are by many scouts thinking AA and a half. Ichiro and Matsui were bona fide MLB players -others not exactly.

Don't forget that Shingo Takatsu was exposed early enough in 2005 that the White Sox had to bring up Jenks -now how did that work out?

BTW, Shingo just retired and will be a manager in an independent league in Japan. Takatsu may not have, but I'd say Iguchi worked out well that year.

I have no idea why one Japanese player is lumped in with another.

Fenway
12-20-2011, 08:01 PM
BTW, Shingo just retired and will be a manager in an independent league in Japan. Takatsu may not have, but I'd say Iguchi worked out well that year.

I have no idea why one Japanese player is lumped in with another.

We saw this years ago in the NHL - all Americans were lumped together. Then the Eastern Euros ( think the Stastny brothers and then the Russians ) and most Canadians accepted others could play the game)

Japan is different in baseball because they have high paying leagues there that the Latin players don't have at home.

The star baseball players in Japan get far more media attention than 99% of MLB players - when Dice-K first came to Boston in 2007 there must have been 100 media people from Tokyo at every game.

soxinem1
12-21-2011, 02:08 PM
They've got their minds set on Yu,
They've got their minds set on Yu
But it's gonna take money
A whole lotta spending money . . .

http://www.8notes.com/wiki/images/GeorgeHarrison.jpg

'You rang??'

TheFrisbee
12-21-2011, 03:59 PM
I think it is fair to say that if ANYBODY in the US has a handle on Japanese baseball talent it would be Bobby V. Boston is hopeful that he can salvage something out of Dice-K in the second half of 2012.

Texas apparently came to find out that Wilson tired badly in September/October. Maybe Nolan will simply let Darvish train the way he always has and not try to change the routine like Boston did with Dice-K.

The 2 major leagues in Japan are by many scouts thinking AA and a half. Ichiro and Matsui were bona fide MLB players -others not exactly.

Don't forget that Shingo Takatsu was exposed early enough in 2005 that the White Sox had to bring up Jenks -now how did that work out?

Takatsu wasn't exposed. He simply couldn't locate his pitches for whatever reason and Jenks was brought up long after Shingo was demoted.

SoxandtheCityTee
12-21-2011, 04:20 PM
http://www.8notes.com/wiki/images/GeorgeHarrison.jpg

'You rang??'

I knew someone would get it eventually!

TheVulture
12-22-2011, 05:54 PM
They've got their minds set on Yu,
They've got their minds set on Yu
But it's gonna take money
A whole lotta spending money . . .

Now I, oh I, I love, love and yeah, I love Yu!
And Yu, Yu love, yes Yu, Yu love, Yu love me!

Wait, did I go to far this time?

102605
01-18-2012, 04:52 PM
Yu Ready? (http://espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/story/_/id/7476104/texas-rangers-sign-japanese-pitcher-yu-darvish-deal-player-option-sixth-season)