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AzureJazzMan
10-12-2011, 02:01 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-pierzynski-on-clubhouse-drinking-sometimes-you-need-a-rally-beer-20111012,0,609180.story

This could be very bad, or buried in all the "Theomania", but I have a sneaking hunch that KW may take this opportunity to get AJ out the door.

gobears1987
10-12-2011, 02:06 PM
I fail to see a story here.

hi im skot
10-12-2011, 02:08 PM
I fail to see a story here.

Same. This is absolutely meaningless, unless folks were expecting a team full of straight edge dudes who only fill up their iPods with Fugazi albums.

DSpivack
10-12-2011, 02:09 PM
Same. This is absolutely meaningless, unless folks were expecting a team full of straight edge dudes who only fill up their iPods with Fugazi albums.

25 CJ Wilsons?

Foulke You
10-12-2011, 02:09 PM
Beer and alcohol has been in MLB clubhouses for generations. I doubt it will change any time soon.

hi im skot
10-12-2011, 02:10 PM
25 CJ Wilsons?

:thumbsup:

Madvora
10-12-2011, 02:10 PM
In all honesty it doesn't really mean anything and a couple of sips don't affect his performance, but don't talk about it. Don't forget that your boss is listening and the fans are listening.
I've had a beer at lunch before and it didn't screw up my work performance, but I knew I wasn't supposed to and I sure a hell wouldn't let my employers find out.

gobears1987
10-12-2011, 02:10 PM
This would be a story of Josh Hamilton were on the team. :redneck

TheOldRoman
10-12-2011, 02:12 PM
25 CJ Wilsons?I hope not. As admirable as the whole straight edge thing is, Wilson has shown himself to be a ****ing douche.

And while it never sounds good to hear about drinking on the job, this has happened for a long time in baseball. Also, I don't think AJ has to worry about applying for a desk job in the next few years.

Bump34
10-12-2011, 02:12 PM
I don't see what the deal is with what A.J. said... First of all he said you might have one during a long extra inning game...it's not like or they are pounding them down while playing...which by the way is the GAME of baseball...

They are not driving school buses, landing planes or performing surgery...

FWIW... I heard there was a certain pitcher who had a couple "pops" in the clubhouse during game 3 of the WS in 2005 because he didn't expect to pitch that night...but did...and did quite well...

thomas35forever
10-12-2011, 02:15 PM
I think The Simpsons can shed some light on the issue.
Umpire: Okay, let's go over the ground rules. You can't leave first until you chug a beer. Any man scoring has to chug a beer. You have to chug a beer at the top of all odd-numbered innings. Oh, and the fourth inning is the beer inning.
Chief Wiggum: Hey, we know how to play softball.

hi im skot
10-12-2011, 02:17 PM
I don't see what the deal is with what A.J. said... First of all he said you might have one during a long extra inning game...it's not like or they are pounding them down while playing...which by the way is the GAME of baseball...

They are not driving school buses, landing planes or performing surgery...

FWIW... I heard there was a certain pitcher who had a couple "pops" in the clubhouse during game 3 of the WS in 2005 because he didn't expect to pitch that night...but did...and did quite well...

Awesome.

AzureJazzMan
10-12-2011, 02:18 PM
Hey, don't get me wrong guys, I have no problem with them doing anything "legal" in the clubhouse, so long as it doesn't impact their ability in a negative way.

I was only concerned because he came out and discussed it publicly, especially with all the Francona brouhaha about drinking. I was simply worried that KW may try to attempt to unload AJ somewhere and use this as an excuse.

downstairs
10-12-2011, 03:10 PM
Really? This is a story? Who didn't think baseball players downed a few beers during the game?

oldgrouch
10-12-2011, 03:39 PM
See Whitey, Billy and Mickey. Stengel called them "the Whiskey Slicks."

DickAllen72
10-12-2011, 03:52 PM
I believe Dick Allen was rumored to have a cocktail once in a while during games.

Viva Medias B's
10-12-2011, 03:53 PM
During Yankees-Sox games at Comiskey Park when he played, Babe Ruth was famous for running to McCuddy's for a beer during games.

Dibbs
10-12-2011, 03:56 PM
I think it is ridiculous to be drinking beers during a game. Sorry, I just can't follow the "he's a grown man, it's a non-story" crowd on this one.

Luke
10-12-2011, 04:01 PM
I think it is ridiculous to be drinking beers during a game. Sorry, I just can't follow the "he's a grown man, it's a non-story" crowd on this one.

Yeah, I'm trying to get my head around this too. I understand it's in the clubhouse, I honestly don't have a problem if a guy isn't going to play or has come out of the game provided he's not getting hammered.

To me, something isn't sitting right with having a beer while you're in a game though, even though it's apparently more common than I thought.

doublem23
10-12-2011, 04:09 PM
I think it is ridiculous to be drinking beers during a game. Sorry, I just can't follow the "he's a grown man, it's a non-story" crowd on this one.

There's a difference between having a beer and being belligerently drunk. Baseball is a sport that sometimes doing too much, whether it is trying too swing to hard, trying to think too much, etc. will produce a negative affect. Sometimes a guy has to slow down and relax and guess what's a great, cheap depressant?

The beer drinking is an anomaly only because in baseball it has been routine for generations now, as opposed to the regular workplace, which generally frowns upon any alcohol consumption, but even that stigma is waning, as more and more smaller, more cutting edge employers allow their workers to have a beer or so during the day. As long as you can control it, and given AJ's description, that sounds pretty reasonable, I sincerely doubt it's a problem.

downstairs
10-12-2011, 04:30 PM
There's a difference between having a beer and being belligerently drunk. Baseball is a sport that sometimes doing too much, whether it is trying too swing to hard, trying to think too much, etc. will produce a negative affect. Sometimes a guy has to slow down and relax and guess what's a great, cheap depressant?

The beer drinking is an anomaly only because in baseball it has been routine for generations now, as opposed to the regular workplace, which generally frowns upon any alcohol consumption, but even that stigma is waning, as more and more smaller, more cutting edge employers allow their workers to have a beer or so during the day. As long as you can control it, and given AJ's description, that sounds pretty reasonable, I sincerely doubt it's a problem.

At work now, drinking a beer with my boss.

Of course work is my house, and I am my boss.

Nellie_Fox
10-12-2011, 04:34 PM
We're really only two generations away from a time when a beer with lunch, and then back to work, for pretty much anybody was no big deal, and executive types kept a stocked bar in their office. My dad said that in the '40's he could have a beer with his sandwich at lunch while in his police uniform and nobody thought a thing of it.

kittle42
10-12-2011, 04:35 PM
I will not rest until drinking is allowed on the field. It may or may not help the Sox slow down Miguel Cabrera. Well, he'd at least ask the first base ump after a close call goes against the Tigers, "Do you know who I am?"

asindc
10-12-2011, 04:46 PM
We're really only two generations away from a time when a beer with lunch, and then back to work, for pretty much anybody was no big deal, and executive types kept a stocked bar in their office. My dad said that in the '40's he could have a beer with his sandwich at lunch while in his police uniform and nobody thought a thing of it.

The recent Ken Burns documentary Prohibition protrayed 19th Century America as a morning, noon, and night drinkfest.

Daver
10-12-2011, 04:52 PM
We're really only two generations away from a time when a beer with lunch, and then back to work, for pretty much anybody was no big deal, and executive types kept a stocked bar in their office. My dad said that in the '40's he could have a beer with his sandwich at lunch while in his police uniform and nobody thought a thing of it.

Even in the 90's I worked with tradesmen that would eat lunch at a tavern and have a few beers, I'm sure it is still happening to this day.

sullythered
10-12-2011, 05:06 PM
I know of tech and ad firms that currently keep beer stocked at the workplace for employees.

LITTLE NELL
10-12-2011, 05:24 PM
During Yankees-Sox games at Comiskey Park when he played, Babe Ruth was famous for running to McCuddy's for a beer during games.

You forgot the 2 hot dogs.

rockinrobin23
10-12-2011, 05:28 PM
holy crap we just found out why Dunn sucked all year he did not know his limit...ahahhahah:gulp:

LongLiveFisk
10-12-2011, 06:58 PM
During Yankees-Sox games at Comiskey Park when he played, Babe Ruth was famous for running to McCuddy's for a beer during games.

That had to be an absolute trip.

"Hey, who's the ******* in the Yankee uniform? Oh ****, that's Babe Ruth!" :)

soxnut1018
10-12-2011, 07:00 PM
I honestly don't know how anyone could watch the 2011 White Sox and not drink.

Zisk77
10-12-2011, 07:05 PM
Keith Hernandez related after his last at bat going in the clubhouse drinking a beer with a teammate (i forgot who) thinking they lost the WS and then a certain ball rolled threw a former Cub legs...

Brian26
10-12-2011, 07:30 PM
There's a difference between having a beer and being belligerently drunk. Baseball is a sport that sometimes doing too much, whether it is trying too swing to hard, trying to think too much, etc. will produce a negative affect. Sometimes a guy has to slow down and relax and guess what's a great, cheap depressant?

I'm in the minority on this one, so I'm going to say my peace and bow out.

So AJ's sitting in the clubhouse for an entire game because Flowers got the start, and he's bored, so he's having a beer. Then imagine he gets called on to pinch hit against Mariano in the 9th inning. Do you want the sober AJ trying to hit the cutter or AJ after a couple of pops?

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument I'd hear occassionally from people back in the day who would say, "I drive better when I'm a little drunk."

But above all of that, it's a stupid message to send to fans and kids.

DSpivack
10-12-2011, 07:31 PM
I'm in the minority on this one, so I'm going to say my peace and bow out.

So AJ's sitting in the clubhouse for an entire game because Flowers got the start, and he's bored, so he's having a beer. Then imagine he gets called on to pinch hit against Mariano in the 9th inning. Do you want the sober AJ trying to hit the cutter or AJ after a couple of pops?

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument I'd hear occassionally from people back in the day who would say, "I drive better when I'm a little drunk."

But above all of that, it's a stupid message to send to fans and kids.

There is one thing I have learned from this thread: I have never before read/heard beer referred to as pops.

Brian26
10-12-2011, 07:45 PM
There is one thing I have learned from this thread: I have never before read/heard beer referred to as pops.

Yeah. The reference is used quite a few times in South Pacific too.

MUsoxfan
10-12-2011, 08:35 PM
Yeah. The reference is used quite a few times in South Pacific too.

"Gimme another pop" and "I need another smash" are things I hear on a daily basis at work. But those are typically older guys

doublem23
10-12-2011, 08:54 PM
I'm in the minority on this one, so I'm going to say my peace and bow out.

So AJ's sitting in the clubhouse for an entire game because Flowers got the start, and he's bored, so he's having a beer. Then imagine he gets called on to pinch hit against Mariano in the 9th inning. Do you want the sober AJ trying to hit the cutter or AJ after a couple of pops?

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument I'd hear occassionally from people back in the day who would say, "I drive better when I'm a little drunk."

But above all of that, it's a stupid message to send to fans and kids.

Again, major difference between having a beer over the course of a baseball game (what AJ said) and being absolutely ****faced, blackout drunk (this theoretically magic world you guys apparently mistaken him for talking about).

I'm sure a grown, multimillion dollar baseball player knows his limits and body better than the Harriet Beacher Stowes of the world, no matter how much it offends their delicate sensibilities and their lame, overprotected children. Newflash: Grown men sometimes have a beer. **** JUST GOT REAL

Jerko
10-12-2011, 09:00 PM
LOL I've made some of the best sporting plays of my life after a beer or two. People don't pay to watch ME though. I say wait till the game is over, or until you're out of the game, to indulge.

Vernam
10-12-2011, 09:02 PM
I believe Dick Allen was rumored to have a cocktail once in a while during games.

He was certainly sighted knocking back some Scotches with Pat Kelly around 75th and Cass in Darien. I can only imagine how Allen would've been hammered (OK, poor choice of words) by the press if he'd made AJ's assertion.

Speaking of assertions and AJ, maybe Lillibridge isn't such a fan: http://twitter.com/#!/BSLillibridge/status/124282373360721920. He did back away a few minutes ago: http://twitter.com/#!/BSLillibridge/status/124301996726558720.

He prefers Flowers?

Vernam

slavko
10-12-2011, 09:05 PM
I heard the interview. He said he had a sip. We are making this into blowing over the legal limit. Calm down. This is less than nothing. Especially since we're discussing it over the Internet which is full of the vilest kind of filth and lord knows whose kids are looking at it. Get angry about something that matters.

hi im skot
10-12-2011, 09:07 PM
He was certainly sighted knocking back some Scotches with Pat Kelly around 75th and Cass in Darien. I can only imagine how Allen would've been hammered (OK, poor choice of words) by the press if he'd made AJ's assertion.

Speaking of assertions and AJ, maybe Lillibridge isn't such a fan: http://twitter.com/#!/BSLillibridge/status/124282373360721920. He did back away a few minutes ago: http://twitter.com/#!/BSLillibridge/status/124301996726558720.

He prefers Flowers?

Vernam

I got the impression Lillibridge made these comments in jest.

Brian26
10-12-2011, 09:15 PM
Newflash: Grown men sometimes have a beer. **** JUST GOT REAL

After work.

(I had to come back if its GETTING REAL (tm))

Vernam
10-12-2011, 09:17 PM
I'm in the minority on this one, so I'm going to say my peace and bow out.

So AJ's sitting in the clubhouse for an entire game because Flowers got the start, and he's bored, so he's having a beer. Then imagine he gets called on to pinch hit against Mariano in the 9th inning. Do you want the sober AJ trying to hit the cutter or AJ after a couple of pops?

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument I'd hear occassionally from people back in the day who would say, "I drive better when I'm a little drunk."

But above all of that, it's a stupid message to send to fans and kids.

If this is stodgy, then I'm stodgy. AJ's sending the wrong signal to a new manager who might be eager to make an example of someone who has a viable (and younger) backup. At the very least, his comments were ill-advised. Given how much I've paid to see some **** games over the past few years, hell yeah, I don't like hearing that any of them might've had a beer during the game.

Vernam

Daver
10-12-2011, 09:19 PM
After work.

(I had to come back if its GETTING REAL (tm))

The guys that built your house drank on the job.

doublem23
10-12-2011, 09:24 PM
After work.

(I had to come back if its GETTING REAL (tm))

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here because I really see no problem with this. Again, nobody is justifying a guy getting ripped in the clubhouse and then stumbling around drunk for a few hours, but if a guy needs a beer to take the edge off and relax before a game, what is the harm? Most grown men can drink 1 beer in 3 hours and feel almost no effect. Kind of like how most workdays, I need a cup of coffee in the morning to really get working. Sure in a perfect world, I'd be at my physical and mental peak from 8-5 M-F, but that's not the way the world works.

And again, AJ has been a consistent, everyday player for 11 seasons now. I am sure he knows how to handle himself and how to best prepare himself to play ball. We're talking about a mature, responsible adult just being candid about something that has been around baseball for generations. We're not talking about Randy Wells closing down the bars on Clark Street every other day or JaMarcus Russell being addicted to purple drank.

Brian26
10-12-2011, 09:29 PM
The guys that built your house drank on the job.

It's still standing after 90 years. Whatever those Irish Immigrants were drinking, they need to get some of it to Rios and Dunn.

voodoochile
10-12-2011, 09:30 PM
Again, major difference between having a beer over the course of a baseball game (what AJ said) and being absolutely ****faced, blackout drunk (this theoretically magic world you guys apparently mistaken him for talking about).

I'm sure a grown, multimillion dollar baseball player knows his limits and body better than the Harriet Beacher Stowes of the world, no matter how much it offends their delicate sensibilities and their lame, overprotected children. Newflash: Grown men sometimes have a beer. **** JUST GOT REAL

At work? At work that requires the fastest best coordination and muscle control in the world to be successful? I don't know of anyone who regularly drinks on the job, but maybe I'm just out of touch.

I'm with Brian on this one. The minute I read that article I was disappointed. If it is indeed a few sips occasionally okay, but I don't understand the reasoning. Why not just have water?

My first thought is, "if this is what they will admit to, what's the actual truth?"

There have been repeated rumors about the Sox having an alcohol problem. We shut them down. Now I wonder if there's more truth to those rumors.

Edit: that is NOT an invitation to restart/repost those rumors.

ernie14
10-12-2011, 09:54 PM
This is all a lot of nothing. We would not even be discussing this had it not

been for their 7 - 20 collapse.

Come on. You mean to tell me that in 2004 and 2007 the Red Sox had

no beer, no chicken and no video games in clubhouse. Come on.

This is all about the collapse. If they were in post season play

no one would be talking about this.

As long as you don't drink during the game and of course never drink and drive.

DickAllen72
10-12-2011, 09:57 PM
I heard the interview. He said he had a sip. We are making this into blowing over the legal limit. Calm down. This is less than nothing. Especially since we're discussing it over the Internet which is full of the vilest kind of filth and lord knows whose kids are looking at it. Get angry about something that matters.
Thank you.

voodoochile
10-12-2011, 09:58 PM
This is all a lot of nothing. We would not even be discussing this had it not

been for their 7 - 20 collapse.

Come on. You mean to tell me that in 2004 and 2007 the Red Sox had

no beer, no chicken and no video games in clubhouse. Come on.

This is all about the collapse. If they were in post season play

no one would be talking about this.

As long as you don't drink during the game and of course never drink and drive.

The article states they actually occasionally do.

I'm actually surprised more people ranting about the underachieving nature of this team the last several years aren't pointing fingers and saying, "AHA!"

DSpivack
10-12-2011, 10:01 PM
Again, major difference between having a beer over the course of a baseball game (what AJ said) and being absolutely ****faced, blackout drunk (this theoretically magic world you guys apparently mistaken him for talking about).

I'm sure a grown, multimillion dollar baseball player knows his limits and body better than the Harriet Beacher Stowes of the world, no matter how much it offends their delicate sensibilities and their lame, overprotected children. Newflash: Grown men sometimes have a beer. **** JUST GOT REAL

Huh? I think you have Harriet Beecher Stowe confused with someone else.

Lip Man 1
10-12-2011, 10:28 PM
David Ortiz tonight in an interview with ESPN said the beer was in the clubhouse and guys were drinking it as far back as 2004 when they won the World Series. Said guys were also playing video games and eating fried chicken during games since that time. Basically he said that stuff's been going on for a while and it's not a big deal.

Lip

rockinrobin23
10-12-2011, 11:20 PM
I'm in the minority on this one, so I'm going to say my peace and bow out.

So AJ's sitting in the clubhouse for an entire game because Flowers got the start, and he's bored, so he's having a beer. Then imagine he gets called on to pinch hit against Mariano in the 9th inning. Do you want the sober AJ trying to hit the cutter or AJ after a couple of pops?

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument I'd hear occassionally from people back in the day who would say, "I drive better when I'm a little drunk."

But above all of that, it's a stupid message to send to fans and kids.
i agree with you 100% bro...

Sargeant79
10-12-2011, 11:23 PM
At work? At work that requires the fastest best coordination and muscle control in the world to be successful? I don't know of anyone who regularly drinks on the job, but maybe I'm just out of touch.

I'm with Brian on this one. The minute I read that article I was disappointed. If it is indeed a few sips occasionally okay, but I don't understand the reasoning. Why not just have water?

My first thought is, "if this is what they will admit to, what's the actual truth?"

There have been repeated rumors about the Sox having an alcohol problem. We shut them down. Now I wonder if there's more truth to those rumors.

Edit: that is NOT an invitation to restart/repost those rumors.

I agree 100% with this. It sounds like I'm in the minority on this, but I don't think it's ok to drink on the job, particularly if your job depends on your motor skills.

And I'm not someone who is against having a drink. Hell...I have a drink at night just about daily and probably drink more than I should in general, but I believe there's a time and a place for it. At work is not that time and place.

manders_01
10-12-2011, 11:40 PM
I agree 100% with this. It sounds like I'm in the minority on this, but I don't think it's ok to drink on the job, particularly if your job depends on your motor skills.

And I'm not someone who is against having a drink. Hell...I have a drink at night just about daily and probably drink more than I should in general, but I believe there's a time and a place for it. At work is not that time and place.

Me too then. As you said, there's a time and a place, and this just doesn't seem to be it. And I don't equate having a beer while out at lunch during the workday or beers in the office at the end of the day as the same thing. To me, what he's mentioning he's doing while in the midst of working.

Looking at it from Uncle Jerry's perspective, my reaction would be sheer anger. I don't want any of my employs drinking on a job, especially one that as others noted, rely on motor skills which drinking impairs.

They may be tall, muscular guys but a few sips could still have an affect. Again, as someone else mentioned, AJ's few sips might in reality have been drinking 3/4 of the can in one swig.

karkovicebatman
10-12-2011, 11:48 PM
I have a friend who told me a story a few years back who has knowledge of some of the team doings due to a family member (who i will not say who), that a currently free agent pitcher who got the save in game 3 of the world series in '05 was enjoying a few brews in the bullpen due to him not having to pitch that day. little did that certain player know that he'd be called for the save. didn't seem to phase him much, did it?

hi im skot
10-12-2011, 11:48 PM
I have a friend who told me a story a few years back who has knowledge of some of the team doings due to a family member (who i will not say who), that a currently free agent pitcher who got the save in game 3 of the world series in '05 was enjoying a few brews in the bullpen due to him not having to pitch that day. little did that certain player know that he'd be called for the save. didn't seem to phase him much, did it?

Old news.

Mohoney
10-13-2011, 12:44 AM
So, guys that make, at minimum, $400k per year drink on the job once in a while?

Color me shocked.

What's the worst that could happen to them? They get cut loose and have to go back to their home that is already completely paid off from the income they earned last year?

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 01:00 AM
So, guys that make, at minimum, $400k per year drink on the job once in a while?

Color me shocked.

What's the worst that could happen to them? They get cut loose and have to go back to their home that is already completely paid off from the income they earned last year?

People who only play baseball for the money don't last long in the major leagues.

hawkjt
10-13-2011, 01:27 AM
I think a pitcher could get away with it easier,as they warm up pretty rigourously and probably sweat it out pretty quick.

Now a pinch hitter coming in off a beer? Hitting is the hardest thing to do in sports when you are sober...with a buzz? No.

In a long game,sweating on a hot summer day, I think a single beer would buzz anyone....I think is should be discouraged,but will not make a huge deal about it. It looks bad when you are losing ballgames,and fans are paying good money,to think they might be buzzed out there.

Didnt the Red Sox famously take a shot of Jack Daniels before each playoff game in 2004? Seem to remember hearing that.

BainesHOF
10-13-2011, 04:08 AM
Pierzynski needs to go for a bunch of reasons. He's really been running his mouth lately, including mocking Ventura's run-in with Nolan Ryan. Drinking in the clubhouse before and during games is totally unacceptable. So is arrogantly talking about it to the media.

Scouts reportedly think too many White Sox players have become too comfortable. Pierzynski is exhibit #1.

As great and entertaining as he's been for us, Pierzynski is now a liability. I don't want him and his attitude around the team anymore, especially now that Ventura is the manager. The last thing a young, first-year manager needs to deal with is Pierzynski's attitude and loafing.

LITTLE NELL
10-13-2011, 05:29 AM
I think that all of this comes down to the country club atmosphere that the Sox have had the last few years.
If I am the manager I lay the law down and all players remain on the bench during the game and support their team mates. You can drink all the beer and eat all the fried chicken you want after the game.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 05:39 AM
Now a pinch hitter coming in off a beer? Hitting is the hardest thing to do in sports when you are sober...with a buzz? No.

Who the **** gets a buzz on one beer? This thread is just chock full of hilarity.

gobears1987
10-13-2011, 05:39 AM
If Don Draper can drink at work then damnit, AJ ought to be able to have a beer.

Frater Perdurabo
10-13-2011, 06:27 AM
Not commenting on the moral or ethical issue, but I wonder if dealing with Ozzie and his kids drove players to drink more than they otherwise would have.

manders_01
10-13-2011, 06:58 AM
Who the **** gets a buzz on one beer? This thread is just chock full of hilarity.

Do you really take AJ at his word that it's only a few sips of one beer? I'm sorry, I like the guy, but I can't help but think of the rule of three from American Pie when listening to his story (though in this case, he's the woman who multiplies by three instead of the guy who divides by three).

I don't think he's, or anyone else who may have drank, is full on plowed or even buzzed but sometimes a little alcohol can have a bigger effect than intended. Have you never been caught off guard at how a drank hit you?

doublem23
10-13-2011, 08:09 AM
Have you never been caught off guard at how a drank hit you?

Yeah, but that's when I was 21 years old. Nowadays I can handle my alcohol responsibly because I know what the hell I'm doing, just like a trust a grown man whose been an everyday, productive ballplayer for over a decade to know, as well. I would be more worried if the Sox clubhouse had no veteran presence, because we have seen a few young guys show flashes of what it takes to be an everyday ballplayer who have burned out and, supposedly, have had some kind of substance abuse issues. I'm obviously not naive enough to think every person can responsibly handle their liquor at all times, but a guy like AJ, whose been a fixture in the Majors since I was in high school, yeah, I trust that guy to know what's up.

g0g0
10-13-2011, 08:22 AM
I want to know the ratio of beers drank to rally wins. :wink:

But I see a non-issue here also. If they want a hotdog between innings or a beer for rallies, then let them. But if it affects their play then something needs to change. I always play better on the back 9 when I break out the beer. Loosens up my drives. :D:

eriqjaffe
10-13-2011, 08:42 AM
As Ozzie once said, "When you win, the beer tastes better."

Now we know what beer he's talking about, I guess.

pythons007
10-13-2011, 09:06 AM
They aren't shooting up herion! Some people believe having a beer (or sips of a beer) calm them down. I feel the same way. As long as they aren't going out there with their helmet on backwards, the bat upside down, puking, and cussing like a sailor. Who cares? If they can still do what they are suppose to do, this is a nonstory.

So if praying calms another player down are we going to get in a religious arguement?

Now if someone can prove Rios and Dunn were wasted on a daily basis, then I might change my mind. But come on! Mickey Mantle used to play piss drunk! He's arguably a top 10 player of all time.

pythons007
10-13-2011, 09:07 AM
Hell, radio sports shows are drinking while broadcasting....there are jobs out there that allow this.

kufram
10-13-2011, 09:22 AM
Do you really take AJ at his word that it's only a few sips of one beer? I'm sorry, I like the guy, but I can't help but think of the rule of three from American Pie when listening to his story (though in this case, he's the woman who multiplies by three instead of the guy who divides by three).

I don't think he's, or anyone else who may have drank, is full on plowed or even buzzed but sometimes a little alcohol can have a bigger effect than intended. Have you never been caught off guard at how a drank hit you?

Yeah, but that's when I was 21 years old. Nowadays I can handle my alcohol responsibly because I know what the hell I'm doing, just like a trust a grown man whose been an everyday, productive ballplayer for over a decade to know, as well. I would be more worried if the Sox clubhouse had no veteran presence, because we have seen a few young guys show flashes of what it takes to be an everyday ballplayer who have burned out and, supposedly, have had some kind of substance abuse issues. I'm obviously not naive enough to think every person can responsibly handle their liquor at all times, but a guy like AJ, whose been a fixture in the Majors since I was in high school, yeah, I trust that guy to know what's up.

I'm on both sides of this fence, I think. If I was manager then everybody would be on the bench during the game paying attention to the game because that is what they are being paid to do, unless there was an actual baseball reason not to be there.... physio or practice swings for example. Does a professional athlete actually take a sip of any liquid if he's hot and bothered? I doubt it.

I'm no wallflower and I've been in the music business my entire life at the big league level where beer is the lightest of tension relievers. I like AJ but he really didn't need to talk about this subject at all if it is a sip of beer. I know a great deal about alcoholism and this is not what we are talking about here... but in this day and age you've either had a drink or you haven't. If you are driving a car having drunk one beer you may be legal and you may think it has no effect on you but that simply is not the truth. The effect varies but there is an effect. In my experience one beer with no ill effects gives one the confidence to have a second and I guarantee that the more it effects some people the less they will recognize the effect.

In a major league clubhouse before the end of the game? Doesn't seem right to me. Didn't they just limit the amount of energy drinks players are supposed to have?

hi im skot
10-13-2011, 09:42 AM
Pierzynski needs to go for a bunch of reasons. He's really been running his mouth lately, including mocking Ventura's run-in with Nolan Ryan. Drinking in the clubhouse before and during games is totally unacceptable. So is arrogantly talking about it to the media.

Scouts reportedly think too many White Sox players have become too comfortable. Pierzynski is exhibit #1.

As great and entertaining as he's been for us, Pierzynski is now a liability. I don't want him and his attitude around the team anymore, especially now that Ventura is the manager. The last thing a young, first-year manager needs to deal with is Pierzynski's attitude and loafing.

I'm not even a huge AJ fan and I think this post is full of ridiculousness.

Milw
10-13-2011, 09:45 AM
I'm a much better darts and billiards player after one or two beers than I am sober. It relaxes me just enough to where my natural muscle memory kicks in and I stop overthinking things. I don't doubt that the same principles apply to hitting a baseball.

There's certainly a point of diminished results, but it doesn't sound like that's what's happening here.

This is much, much ado about nothing.

SOXSINCE'70
10-13-2011, 10:10 AM
This is much, much ado about nothing.

Amen. Thank you.:yup::thumbsup::tiphat:

kufram
10-13-2011, 10:10 AM
I would want to be stone cold sober with a baseball traveling at 98 mph from 60 feet 6 inches away and coming straight at my head. And if it wasn't my head but I was insuring it I would make it a mitigating factor if there was any question whatsoever of alcohol being brought into the equation.

FoulTerritory
10-13-2011, 10:16 AM
I'm in the minority on this one, so I'm going to say my peace and bow out.

So AJ's sitting in the clubhouse for an entire game because Flowers got the start, and he's bored, so he's having a beer. Then imagine he gets called on to pinch hit against Mariano in the 9th inning. Do you want the sober AJ trying to hit the cutter or AJ after a couple of pops?

It reminds me of the ridiculous argument I'd hear occassionally from people back in the day who would say, "I drive better when I'm a little drunk."

But above all of that, it's a stupid message to send to fans and kids.

I agree with most of what you said. I think the most concerning part is that certain players supposedly did shots before an ALDS game in 2008.

The thing is, alcohol is a depressent, thus, it affects (diminishes) hand eye coordination. And lets face it, certain players (Swisher) looked a bit drunk at the plate during that series.

In general, I'm a fan of beer, and if players want to drink in the clubhouse after a game, or even during a regular season game they don't expect to play in, I understand. But really, in the ALDS? Shots?

That doesn't sit right with me.

bridgeportcopper
10-13-2011, 10:17 AM
I'm a much better darts and billiards player after one or two beers than I am sober. It relaxes me just enough to where my natural muscle memory kicks in and I stop overthinking things. I don't doubt that the same principles apply to hitting a baseball.

There's certainly a point of diminished results, but it doesn't sound like that's what's happening here.

This is much, much ado about nothing.

I am MUCH more relaxed on the golf course after a beer or two. It's when I get to 9, 10, 11 & 12 that my game goes to ****! (And I'm not talking holes!)

FoulTerritory
10-13-2011, 10:19 AM
Who the **** gets a buzz on one beer? This thread is just chock full of hilarity.

You might not get a buzz off of one beer -- I know I don't -- but even one beer affects, even if minimally, your hand-eye coordination.

This isn't softball in the park. I would think that every single bit of hand-eye coordination would be welcome when trying to hit major league pitching.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 10:37 AM
I would want to be stone cold sober with a baseball traveling at 98 mph from 60 feet 6 inches away and coming straight at my head. And if it wasn't my head but I was insuring it I would make it a mitigating factor if there was any question whatsoever of alcohol being brought into the equation.

You might not get a buzz off of one beer -- I know I don't -- but even one beer affects, even if minimally, your hand-eye coordination.

This isn't softball in the park. I would think that every single bit of hand-eye coordination would be welcome when trying to hit major league pitching.

And that's fine, however, neither of you have the slightest bit experience at the Major League level playing baseball, so I am still going to trust the experience of the 14-year veteran ballplayer who, if he feels it's fine to have a beer during a game, then it's probably fine. As has been noted, repeatedly, the calming effects of alcohol are being underestimated because from what I can tell here, apparently some of you go from stone sober to blackout drunk over the course of a six-pack.

How many times have you heard coaches or players preach that in baseball, one of the worst things you can do is try too hard, think too much, etc. and just let your natural talents and skills take over? Perhaps the soothing, calming effects of one drink helps. Clearly there is a fine line, but again, Pierzynski has been a regular, everyday player since 2001. I am sure he knows what he's doing. This is akin to posters here believing they could do a better job than Ozzie or KW because they once won the World Series on their X-Box.

ilsox7
10-13-2011, 10:39 AM
I just put back a few shots. Makes these spreadsheets make sense!!!!!!!!!

kittle42
10-13-2011, 10:45 AM
Why do I have the feeling some of you had to go look up the effects of alcohol on wikipedia or something? This thread is really ridiculous.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 10:46 AM
Who the **** gets a buzz on one beer? This thread is just chock full of hilarity.

Yes and lots of people sticking their fingers in their ears and closing their eyes while screaming "NANANANANANANANANNA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" or simply mocking those who think that a professional sports team drinking DURING games is an issue.

Again, given this team's rampant issues with playing up to their potential why would you blow this off as no big deal?

In fact you've been one of the louder voices screaming about exactly that the last few years why are you not outraged by this or at least wanting to lift the veil more and find out if the minimal amount of drinking AJ will admit to is all there is?

Edit: case number 1 for why you shouldn't drink and play is Mickey Mantle. Go back and read his own words on how much alcohol cost him. THEN come here and be snide about this issue...

kittle42
10-13-2011, 10:50 AM
To clarify my own stance (not that anyone cares), I generally don't think any professional athlete should be drinking alcohol before or during a game.

I just find some of the posts here amusing.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 10:54 AM
Yes and lots of people sticking their fingers in their ears and closing their eyes while screaming "NANANANANANANANANNA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" or simply mocking those who think that a professional sports team drinking DURING games is an issue.

Again, given this team's rampant issues with playing up to their potential why would you blow this off as no big deal?

In fact you've been one of the louder voices screaming about exactly that the last few years why are you not outraged by this or at least wanting to lift the veil more and find out if the minimal amount of drinking AJ will admit to is all there is?

Edit: case number 1 for why you shouldn't drink and play is Mickey Mantle. Go back and read his own words on how much alcohol cost him. THEN come here and be snide about this issue...

And nobody is advocating that players go out and do the Mickey Mantle Special, which, by my understanding is to get as blindly drunk as possible for as long as possible for as many nights possible. Mickey Mantle was a ****ing alcoholic. AJ stating he might drink a beer over the course of a 3-hour baseball game isn't even in the same ballpark.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 10:56 AM
Yeah, but that's when I was 21 years old. Nowadays I can handle my alcohol responsibly because I know what the hell I'm doing, just like a trust a grown man whose been an everyday, productive ballplayer for over a decade to know, as well. I would be more worried if the Sox clubhouse had no veteran presence, because we have seen a few young guys show flashes of what it takes to be an everyday ballplayer who have burned out and, supposedly, have had some kind of substance abuse issues. I'm obviously not naive enough to think every person can responsibly handle their liquor at all times, but a guy like AJ, whose been a fixture in the Majors since I was in high school, yeah, I trust that guy to know what's up.

I see... and you are supposing that none of the young players who suddenly underperform when playing for the Sox are drinking and not being as responsible as AJ? Want to start ticking off the names of people who have underperformed while playing for the Sox the last 5 years? Does it make you to start to wonder if some of it was caused by alcohol?

It's also not always about the beer in the clubhouse. You set a tone with the rules you enforce/permit. People who get the impression it's okay to have a pop while playing can change their thinking and suddenly it's okay to have a few pops in the afternoon before coming to the park - after all it's only warm ups, they'll be sober by game time. Suddenly it's okay to stay out drinking later than they should the night before a game. Suddenly stories about McCarthy and BA and tales of legendary nights out by the Sox players with a game scheduled the next day start to take on new meaning - at least to me.

You can chose to close your eyes and take AJ at his word. I for one am looking at this as the tip of the iceberg. How much drinking is really going on? How lax has management control been about this issue? Has this led to other laxness? Is this laxness the reason the team seems to rarely play up to it's potential?

So go ahead, shrug it off, take AJ at his word. I'm not willing to do that...

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 10:58 AM
They aren't shooting up herion! Some people believe having a beer (or sips of a beer) calm them down. I feel the same way. As long as they aren't going out there with their helmet on backwards, the bat upside down, puking, and cussing like a sailor. Who cares? If they can still do what they are suppose to do, this is a nonstory.

So if praying calms another player down are we going to get in a religious arguement?

Now if someone can prove Rios and Dunn were wasted on a daily basis, then I might change my mind. But come on! Mickey Mantle used to play piss drunk! He's arguably a top 10 player of all time.

Nice strawman and you really ought to go back and read what Mickey himself said about his drinking in his later years. He said it cost him years and records and ability he was never willing to admit to. He's top 10 he could be top 3 if he hadn't been an alcoholic...

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 11:00 AM
Hell, radio sports shows are drinking while broadcasting....there are jobs out there that allow this.

Yes and as everyone knows, radio talk hosts have to regularly perform the "hardest thing to do in sports" several times a day. :rolleyes:

ALCOHOL SLOWS REACTION TIMES!

FoulTerritory
10-13-2011, 11:00 AM
I see... and you are supposing that none of the young players who suddenly underperform when playing for the Sox are drinking and not being as responsible as AJ? Want to start ticking off the names of people who have underperformed while playing for the Sox the last 5 years? Does it make you to start to wonder if some of it was caused by alcohol?

It's also not always about the beer in the clubhouse. You set a tone with the rules you enforce/permit. People who get the impression it's okay to have a pop while playing can change their thinking and suddenly it's okay to have a few pops in the afternoon before coming to the park - after all it's only warm ups, they'll be sober by game time. Suddenly it's okay to stay out drinking later than they should the night before a game. Suddenly stories about McCarthy and BA and tales of legendary nights out by the Sox players with a game scheduled the next day start to take on new meaning - at least to me.



You can chose to close your eyes and take AJ at his word. I for one am looking at this as the tip of the iceberg. How much drinking is really going on? How lax has management control been about this issue? Has this led to other laxness? Is this laxness the reason the team seems to rarely play up to it's potential?

So go ahead, shrug it off, take AJ at his word. I'm not willing to do that...

I agree 100%. And even if all we do is take AJ at his word, that still means several players did shots before a playoff game! That is bad enough as it is.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 11:02 AM
And that's fine, however, neither of you have the slightest bit experience at the Major League level playing baseball, so I am still going to trust the experience of the 14-year veteran ballplayer who, if he feels it's fine to have a beer during a game, then it's probably fine. As has been noted, repeatedly, the calming effects of alcohol are being underestimated because from what I can tell here, apparently some of you go from stone sober to blackout drunk over the course of a six-pack.

How many times have you heard coaches or players preach that in baseball, one of the worst things you can do is try too hard, think too much, etc. and just let your natural talents and skills take over? Perhaps the soothing, calming effects of one drink helps. Clearly there is a fine line, but again, Pierzynski has been a regular, everyday player since 2001. I am sure he knows what he's doing. This is akin to posters here believing they could do a better job than Ozzie or KW because they once won the World Series on their X-Box.


Up to a 6-pack is okay now... WOOT!

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 11:03 AM
And nobody is advocating that players go out and do the Mickey Mantle Special, which, by my understanding is to get as blindly drunk as possible for as long as possible for as many nights possible. Mickey Mantle was a ****ing alcoholic. AJ stating he might drink a beer over the course of a 3-hour baseball game isn't even in the same ballpark.

And again, IF that's all he actually had and no one else exceeded that number then sure, but I for one doubt that's the case.

Milw
10-13-2011, 11:04 AM
Nice strawman and you really ought to go back and read what Mickey himself said about his drinking in his later years. He said it cost him years and records and ability he was never willing to admit to. He's top 10 he could be top 3 if he hadn't been an alcoholic...
You do realize that drinking one beer per day isn't the same thing as being an alcoholic, right? I have no doubt that Mantle would have been even better had he drank less. But Mantle wasn't just drinking ONE beer, he was drinking seven or eight.

It's funny you're criticizing doublem23 for a strawman, when you're the one that introduced the strawman in the first place by equating alcoholism with drinking a single beer.

hi im skot
10-13-2011, 11:05 AM
We've had some really amazing threads here lately - the Cowley dump, the NBA lockout thread, this one - WSI is on a roll!

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 11:06 AM
You do realize that drinking one beer per day isn't the same thing as being an alcoholic, right? I have no doubt that Mantle would have been even better had he drank less. But Mantle wasn't just drinking ONE beer, he was drinking seven or eight.

It's funny you're criticizing doublem23 for a strawman, when you're the one that introduced the strawman in the first place by equating alcoholism with drinking a single beer.

Yes but the post I quoted claimed that Micky was top 10 player while being blind drunk most of the time. I didn't twist the argument. You are the one who ignored the post I quoted and replied to.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2841913&postcount=69

(see the final sentence)

Edit: and since when did you have to be an alcoholic for alcohol to diminish your hand eye coordination?

doublem23
10-13-2011, 11:08 AM
I see... and you are supposing that none of the young players who suddenly underperform when playing for the Sox are drinking and not being as responsible as AJ? Want to start ticking off the names of people who have underperformed while playing for the Sox the last 5 years? Does it make you to start to wonder if some of it was caused by alcohol?

No, it doesn't, unless you believe that the guys who have come here and underperformed became raging drunks while they were with the Sox and then were able to drop the habit cold turkey as soon as they left.

It's also not always about the beer in the clubhouse. You set a tone with the rules you enforce/permit. People who get the impression it's okay to have a pop while playing can change their thinking and suddenly it's okay to have a few pops in the afternoon before coming to the park - after all it's only warm ups, they'll be sober by game time. Suddenly it's okay to stay out drinking later than they should the night before a game. Suddenly stories about McCarthy and BA and tales of legendary nights out by the Sox players with a game scheduled the next day start to take on new meaning - at least to me.

And there's the flip side to that, is that you want your guys relaxed and enjoying their time at the park. I'm sorry they're not all baseball-playing machines, a lot of them are at the park for hours before a game starts, if you really think that you can just flip the switch on and turn a baseball clubhouse into a church day care center, that's going to have ill effects, as well.

Your slippery slope routine is just hilarious. This is the general anti-drinking MADD-sponsored bull**** of the past 10 years. Next you're going to tell me that if you let even the faintest drop of liquor touch your lips then you're so ****ing drunk you'll drive a van right into an orphanage and kill a bunch of kids before stumbling over to a soup kitchen and burning it to the ground.

I ****ing cannot understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Guys getting drunk in the clubhouse before and during a game? Problem. Guys relaxing before the game with a beer? Not a problem. WHAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ABOUT THAT!?!?!

You can chose to close your eyes and take AJ at his word. I for one am looking at this as the tip of the iceberg. How much drinking is really going on? How lax has management control been about this issue? Has this led to other laxness? Is this laxness the reason the team seems to rarely play up to it's potential?

So go ahead, shrug it off, take AJ at his word. I'm not willing to do that...

And that's a load of **** because you have absolutely no knowledge of what happens behind those closed doors. This is just as asinine as the folks who tell us that they'd do a better job as GM than Kenny or they'd manage this team better than Ozzie. No, if you're outside the little insulated world that baseball players live in, you're just outside it. Again, I'd have a problem with this if it was a guy like Tyler Flowers or Dayan Viciedo talking about drinking during games; younger guys I can see not being able to control themselves, or not at least being able to police it. AJ? The guy whose caught 125+ games for the past 11 straight seasons, has played in a few All-Star Games and was a key cog on a World Series championship team? You honestly expect me to believe that you know more about how to be successful in the Majors than him? Eyeroll.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 11:13 AM
And again, IF that's all he actually had and no one else exceeded that number then sure, but I for one doubt that's the case.

Well I have my own evidence, which is the direct quote from AJ Pierzynski. You, on the other hand, have nothing other than your own paranoia. AJ said he had a beer during a game, so he's obviously getting ****faced instead!!!

Milw
10-13-2011, 11:13 AM
Yes but the post I quoted claimed that Micky was top 10 player while being blind drunk most of the time. I didn't twist the argument. You are the one who ignored the post I quoted and replied to.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2841913&postcount=69

(see the final sentence)

Edit: and since when did you have to be an alcoholic for alcohol to diminish your hand eye coordination?
Mantle drank too much and was still good. I get it and don't disagree. I guess I don't understand your point.

One beer doesn't diminish hand-eye coordination to any significant degree, and as has been stated several times already, for some people the depressant nature of alcohol actually calms the nerves and steadies the hand enough that it can be a net benefit.

This, again, is assuming we're talking about small doses. If you don't believe AJ that they stopped at one beer, then that's a separate question to whether one beer is OK.

PeteWard
10-13-2011, 11:15 AM
A beer in the clubhouse in the late innings and some of you are acting like he was shooting smack. Loosen up people. Some of you are more uptight than a gnat's arsehole.

VA_GoGoSox
10-13-2011, 11:16 AM
I would guess a guy AJ's size would have to drink 6 beers before he would feel any effect. Having a couple beers is not a big deal and has been part of baseball for a long time.

Plus, recent research shows that having a couple beers is good for athletes!

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/3467

:gulp:

doublem23
10-13-2011, 11:18 AM
I would guess a guy AJ's size would have to drink 6 beers before he would feel any effect. Having a couple beers is not a big deal and has been part of baseball for a long time.

Plus, recent research shows that having a couple beers is good for athletes!

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/3467

:gulp:

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/NycAnarchy/Animations/ka-boom.gif

sox1970
10-13-2011, 11:23 AM
Call me crazy (and I'm sure some of you will), but I'd like my highly paid athletes not to drink before or during games they are competing in.

Now if a starting pitcher gets pulled and he goes into the clubhouse to get iced and he wants a beer, have at it. But the actual competing players shouldn't drink while they're working. Isn't that just common sense?

kittle42
10-13-2011, 11:25 AM
I also read that drinking one _______ per day is good for __________.

Milw
10-13-2011, 11:25 AM
Call me crazy (and I'm sure some of you will), but I'd like my highly paid athletes not to drink before or during games they are competing in.

Now if a starting pitcher gets pulled and he goes into the clubhouse to get iced and he wants a beer, have at it. But the actual competing players shouldn't drink while they're working. Isn't that just common sense?
Well, no, it's not, and if you'd go back and read the previous threads you'd understand why not everyone agrees. You're welcome to your opinion, and I certainly understand where you're coming from, but this is not an open and shut debate.

sox1970
10-13-2011, 11:33 AM
Well, no, it's not, and if you'd go back and read the previous threads you'd understand why not everyone agrees. You're welcome to your opinion, and I certainly understand where you're coming from, but this is not an open and shut debate.

Yeah, I read the thread.

It's ridiculous to drink while you're competing as a professional athlete.

Save it for after the game.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 11:37 AM
No, it doesn't, unless you believe that the guys who have come here and underperformed became raging drunks while they were with the Sox and then were able to drop the habit cold turkey as soon as they left.



And there's the flip side to that, is that you want your guys relaxed and enjoying their time at the park. I'm sorry they're not all baseball-playing machines, a lot of them are at the park for hours before a game starts, if you really think that you can just flip the switch on and turn a baseball clubhouse into a church day care center, that's going to have ill effects, as well.

Your slippery slope routine is just hilarious. This is the general anti-drinking MADD-sponsored bull**** of the past 10 years. Next you're going to tell me that if you let even the faintest drop of liquor touch your lips then you're so ****ing drunk you'll drive a van right into an orphanage and kill a bunch of kids before stumbling over to a soup kitchen and burning it to the ground.

I ****ing cannot understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp. Guys getting drunk in the clubhouse before and during a game? Problem. Guys relaxing before the game with a beer? Not a problem. WHAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE ABOUT THAT!?!?!



And that's a load of **** because you have absolutely no knowledge of what happens behind those closed doors. This is just as asinine as the folks who tell us that they'd do a better job as GM than Kenny or they'd manage this team better than Ozzie. No, if you're outside the little insulated world that baseball players live in, you're just outside it. Again, I'd have a problem with this if it was a guy like Tyler Flowers or Dayan Viciedo talking about drinking during games; younger guys I can see not being able to control themselves, or not at least being able to police it. AJ? The guy whose caught 125+ games for the past 11 straight seasons, has played in a few All-Star Games and was a key cog on a World Series championship team? You honestly expect me to believe that you know more about how to be successful in the Majors than him? Eyeroll.

Okay first of all, you don't have to be drunk to have your hand-eye coordination impaired. Also a beer here and there has effects beyond the immediate impact - it causes the body go slow down over time. I mean there's a reason all those guys were pounding greenies for the last several decades. Greenies are stimulants and have the exact opposite effect on the body of alcohol. They sharpen the senses, improve fast muscle response and improve concentration. They've been outlawed. Let's just ignore all that because suddenly depressants are the answer.

Well I have my own evidence, which is the direct quote from AJ Pierzynski. You, on the other hand, have nothing other than your own paranoia. AJ said he had a beer during a game, so he's obviously getting ****faced instead!!!

And again, you don't have to be ****-faced to lower your physical ability. You don't even need to be "buzzed". But lets just ignore all the scientific evidence. AJ says it's cool, so sol good.

I would guess a guy AJ's size would have to drink 6 beers before he would feel any effect. Having a couple beers is not a big deal and has been part of baseball for a long time.

Plus, recent research shows that having a couple beers is good for athletes!

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/3467

:gulp:

Did you bother to read the article? I'm guessing Mr. Kaboom didn't. The very first sentence says, that beer rehydrates better than water AFTER physical activity. It makes no claims about during physical activity.

If you are going to post an article which supposedly supports your point, at least try to make it about the actual topic which is drinking during games.

Here, let me help...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=alcohol+impairment+sports

Johnny Mostil
10-13-2011, 11:40 AM
I would guess a guy AJ's size would have to drink 6 beers before he would feel any effect. Having a couple beers is not a big deal and has been part of baseball for a long time.

Plus, recent research shows that having a couple beers is good for athletes!

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/3467

:gulp:

Not sure how saying beer is good for rehydration after a workout--which is what the link says--means it is good to drink during a game, but, eh, whatever.

I'm willing to take Pierzynski at his word on this, and therefore concede this is a non-issue. Still, the image it gives a bad, underperforming team isn't good.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 11:44 AM
Okay first of all, you don't have to be drunk to have your hand-eye coordination impaired. Also a beer here and there has effects beyond the immediate impact - it causes the body go slow down over time. I mean there's a reason all those guys were pounding greenies for the last several decades. Greenies are stimulants and have the exact opposite effect on the body of alcohol. They sharpen the senses, improve fast muscle response and improve concentration. They've been outlawed. Let's just ignore all that because suddenly depressants are the answer.

And again, you don't have to be ****-faced to lower your physical ability. You don't even need to be "buzzed". But lets just ignore all the scientific evidence. AJ says it's cool, so sol good.


Oh, you're ****ing absolutely right, I forgot that AJ Pierzynski is the first player in the history of baseball to have ever tasted the sweet vixen known as alcohol, clearly, in the 100+ year history of this sport, no one would dare be so daft as to sip on a beer during something as physically strenous as baseball.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 11:47 AM
Not sure how saying beer is good for rehydration after a workout--which is what the link says--means it is good to drink during a game, but, eh, whatever.


Well back earlier in the thread we had a Rocket Scientist, M.D. wonder why he wouldn't just drink a water instead of a beer, when the linked article suggests that the beer would be better to rehydrate him than just the water.

I understand though, I'm sure clearly after that one beer, however, the full grown adult male would be so incapcitated he would slip full on into a Mickey Mantle-style bender. Don't you know that's how drinking works? Even though anyone ANYONE who has ever drank before could easily tell you that a beer over the course of several hours has zero impact on performance, and even though ballplayers have been drinking for generations, the people in the know are the pitchfork and torch weilding fans. They always have all the answers.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 11:58 AM
Oh, you're ****ing absolutely right, I forgot that AJ Pierzynski is the first player in the history of baseball to have ever tasted the sweet vixen known as alcohol, clearly, in the 100+ year history of this sport, no one would dare be so daft as to sip on a beer during something as physically strenous as baseball.

LOL I'm done you want to be this intentionally obtuse about alcohol's effect on muscle coordination and response time that's your choice, but I'm done responding to your over the top posts. Which rely on extreme hyperbole to attempt to make whatever point it is you want to make, but the anger and ridiculous extreme stances do not prove your argument to me in fact just the opposite. I'll allow you to have the final word.

Daver
10-13-2011, 12:04 PM
Moderation is a virtue the Mick would have benefited from.

VA_GoGoSox
10-13-2011, 12:12 PM
Did you bother to read the article? I'm guessing Mr. Kaboom didn't. The very first sentence says, that beer rehydrates better than water AFTER physical activity. It makes no claims about during physical activity.

If you are going to post an article which supposedly supports your point, at least try to make it about the actual topic which is drinking during games.

Here, let me help...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=alcohol+impairment+sports

If a player is having a beer in the clubhouse during the eighth inning, I would argue that he is at rest and is thus having a beer AFTER physical activity. Whether an athlete resumes physical activity and what effect that would have on hydration is not addressed by the study. We could split hairs and have a dumb argument like this all day long, but that would be a waste of time.

Just thought it was an interesting article that provided an amusing point to consider. No need to bite my head off. Cheers :gulp:

doublem23
10-13-2011, 12:22 PM
LOL I'm done you want to be this intentionally obtuse about alcohol's effect on muscle coordination and response time that's your choice, but I'm done responding to your over the top posts. Which rely on extreme hyperbole to attempt to make whatever point it is you want to make, but the anger and ridiculous extreme stances do not prove your argument to me in fact just the opposite. I'll allow you to have the final word.

Well what point are you trying to make here? That we should treat these guys not as adult men, but rather as autonomous robots? No one is denying the long-term (or short term) effects of too much drankin', the question is can we trust these adults to responsibly enjoy a drink here and there without having to bust out the temperance propoganda? I think the resounding answer to that question is "Yes."

Doctors have prescribed depressants and sedatives to patients battling anxiety and stress-related disorders for years and years, the idea that the extremely limited negative physical effects of a beer outweigh the potential positive psychological effects is silly, IMO, even if those positive effects are just psychosomatic, it's well, WELL known that baseball is not the most physically challenging sport in the world, but extremely mentally challenging. If a guy needs a "rally beer," as AJ puts it to get through the mentally fatiguing process of a game, so be it. As long as he is behaving responsibly it's none of anyone's concern.

The 2004 Red Sox were notorious for their party lifestyle and no one cared to write up an expose on the subject because they were able to win. The only thing AJ has done wrong so far is actually tell people the truth, crack the door open a bit too far for us to see, so that he can be crucified by the Carrie Nations out there.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 12:23 PM
You guys crack me up. In no way, shape or form would having a beer help anyone's performance. Even one beer would make it worse, no matter how minor that may be. Therefore, no athlete should ever have one during a game. Like Voodoo said, alcohol has the exact opposite effect of the stimulants that make athletes more successful. It's science.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 12:29 PM
If a player is having a beer in the clubhouse during the eighth inning, I would argue that he is at rest and is thus having a beer AFTER physical activity. Whether an athlete resumes physical activity and what effect that would have on hydration is not addressed by the study. We could split hairs and have a dumb argument like this all day long, but that would be a waste of time.

Just thought it was an interesting article that provided an amusing point to consider. No need to bite my head off. Cheers :gulp:

You are strictly talking about hydration also. The discussion is about the effects of alcohol on muscle response time and other factors. I apologize if I came across as harsh I admit that attempts to pass off information about one aspect of a given issue as a rebuttal to a different aspect of that issue push my buttons.

Again, players for the last several decades pounded stimulants to achieve better results because of their effects on the bodies ability to react faster and stay focused - as any student who pounds a large coffee before a big final exam can attest to. Suddenly AJ says, "hey beer helps me relax and that's good for my ability to play" and people are like "oh it must be true". It's the exact opposite from where things have been for decades and contrary to every known bit of scientific evidence and given the Sox issues with playing to potential we even have possible anecdotal evidence that suggests it's not as okay and cool as AJ says and maybe not as limited as he says either. Just something to consider and definitely something worth keeping an eye on, IMO.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 12:32 PM
You guys crack me up. In no way, shape or form would having a beer help anyone's performance. Even one beer would make it worse, no matter how minor that may be. Therefore, no athlete should ever have one during a game. Like Voodoo said, alcohol has the exact opposite effect of the stimulants that make athletes more successful. It's science.

And that's a fine argument to make why a guy running a track meet shouldn't have a beer before he runs, but this is baseball, which is not all athletics, but also has a very large mental aspect as well.

Again, this has been happening for generations. If the effects of a slight amount of alcohol were nearly as detrimental as some of you apparently think they are, then this behavior would have been snuffed out a long time ago.

kittle42
10-13-2011, 12:33 PM
I think I saw Jesse Pinkman near the Sox dugout.

GoGoCrede
10-13-2011, 12:36 PM
Yeah, I read the thread.

It's ridiculous to drink while you're competing as a professional athlete.

Save it for after the game.

I agree. I wouldn't drink at all at work, but then, I've recently given up alcohol and I'm one of those people who gets drunk after only a few drinks. :shrug: And I'm thinking it's easier for a plebian like me to lose their job over it than it is for someone like AJ.

I'm gonna back out of here slowly, because although this thread has been an interesting read, I'd rather watch than debate.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 12:38 PM
And that's a fine argument to make why a guy running a track meet shouldn't have a beer before he runs, but this is baseball, which is not all athletics, but also has a very large mental aspect as well.

Again, this has been happening for generations. If the effects of a slight amount of alcohol were nearly as detrimental as some of you apparently think they are, then this behavior would have been snuffed out a long time ago.

No. It is a very athletic game, not a mental game. Guys would never retire from the sport if it was a mental game. Not to mention, alcohol decreases your mental abilities as well. I'm teaching you science. You're blasting off broscience.



EDIT: And I do enjoy beer and alcohol. Probably too much!

doublem23
10-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Again, players for the last several decades pounded stimulants to achieve better results because of their effects on the bodies ability to react faster and stay focused - as any student who pounds a large coffee before a big final exam can attest to. Suddenly AJ says, "hey beer helps me relax and that's good for my ability to play" and people are like "oh it must be true". It's the exact opposite from where things have been for decades and contrary to every known bit of scientific evidence and given the Sox issues with playing to potential we even have possible anecdotal evidence that suggests it's not as okay and cool as AJ says and maybe not as limited as he says either. Just something to consider and definitely something worth keeping an eye on, IMO.

And that's a crappy argument because you know that AJ is not the first, or only, baseball player ever to have drank a beer during or before a game. That's why this argument is so ridiculous, it's exactly the same as the armchair GMs or managers who swear they know better than the professionals because they won their fantasy league or they won the franchise mode on a video game. You're refusal to even address the known, and prescribed, calming and stress-reducing effects of depressants (like alcohol) pretty much reveals your bias in this argument. We get it. You don't like booze. I hope you don't take it the wrong way when I defer to the 14-year veteran of the Major Leagues over a guy who can't produce anything more than a scientific study he found on Google.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 12:48 PM
And that's a crappy argument because you know that AJ is not the first, or only, baseball player ever to have drank a beer during or before a game. That's why this argument is so ridiculous, it's exactly the same as the armchair GMs or managers who swear they know better than the professionals because they won their fantasy league or they won the franchise mode on a video game. You're refusal to even address the known, and prescribed, calming and stress-reducing effects of depressants (like alcohol) pretty much reveals your bias in this argument. We get it. You don't like booze. I hope you don't take it the wrong way when I defer to the 14-year veteran of the Major Leagues over a guy who can't produce anything more than a scientific study he found on Google.

No I have nothing against alcohol. People want to drink they are free to do so, but I do draw the line at professional athletes playing a game that requires the fastest responses and strictest concentration using a drug that inhibits both of those factors during the course of that game.

And here's the reason I don't accept the AJ is an expert argument: AJ LIKES to drink during the game. He is completely biased on the subject. His opinions are greatly diminished by that simple fact. He has a stake in the argument as it were. There is simply no way to separate his emotional desires from his argument. AJ doesn't want anyone pissing on his party. I hope that the truth is that AJ is telling the truth and it's only a few sips here and there. I still think it's at least something to be looked at, examined and watched. I'm not willing to simply diminish it as "hey everyone does it" which seems to be the prevailing response to the issue. Maybe it's time for a change...

russ99
10-13-2011, 12:50 PM
No. It is a very athletic game, not a mental game. Guys would never retire from the sport if it was a mental game. Not to mention, alcohol decreases your mental abilities as well. I'm teaching you science. You're blasting off broscience.

EDIT: And I do enjoy beer and alcohol. Probably too much!

It's both physical and mental. You need a certain physical talent to play the game, but the best players either have freakish physical skills or more often the mental toughness to take the daily grind of constant frustration that comes with playing pro baseball.

I'm neither one way or the other on this issue. If the club makes beer available to players during the games, then no one should be surprised if players drink it.

I also wouldn't assume that occasional late-inning drinking is the cause of of the lack of this team to live up to expectations.

kittle42
10-13-2011, 12:51 PM
Maybe it's time for a change...

Agreed. He should try a different beer.

GoGoCrede
10-13-2011, 12:53 PM
Agreed. He should try a different beer.

AJ should be punished by having to drink Busch Lite every time he strikes out. :smile: That'll do it.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 12:57 PM
It's both physical and mental. You need a certain physical talent to play the game, but the best players either have freakish physical skills or more often the mental toughness to take the daily grind of constant frustration that comes with playing pro baseball.

I'm neither one way or the other on this issue. If the club makes beer available to players during the games, then no one should be surprised if players drink it.

I also wouldn't assume that occasional late-inning drinking is the cause of of the lack of this team to live up to expectations.


Nope, it is a physical game. There are zero 60 year old's with great minds playing on the field. There are, however, a number of idiots who are in their 20s and 30s playing on the field. It is all physical. Pretty much 100%. Now, I understand there are many intricacies in baseball that make people like you and I love the sport very much. But let's not confuse that with baseball being a mental game. It is not. Chess is an example of a mental game. And once again, alcohol would impair mental abilities as well.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 01:11 PM
Nope, it is a physical game. There are zero 60 year old's with great minds playing on the field. There are, however, a number of idiots who are in their 20s and 30s playing on the field. It is all physical. Pretty much 100%. Now, I understand there are many intricacies in baseball that make people like you and I love the sport very much. But let's not confuse that with baseball being a mental game. It is not. Chess is an example of a mental game. And once again, alcohol would impair mental abilities as well.

You're confusing the mental aspect of baseball with just simply being smart. They are different things. You are correct in saying that you need the physical tools to play baseball to actually play, but to say that is all you need is simply incorrect. Baseball is more than just the guy who can swing the hardest always hits a HR or the pitcher who throws the hardest always gets the strike out. This is a sport that is deeply mentally challenging, not in the way that solving a complex math equation is, but in keeping your emotional and mental state at peace so that your physical tools can shine.

I've never actually seen anyone who claims to understand baseball in the slightest actually make the argument that it is all physical and no mental. This thread has hit another hilarious low point.

TaylorStSox
10-13-2011, 01:14 PM
One thing's for sure... drinking a beer wont help you throw out a base runner.

Lip Man 1
10-13-2011, 01:20 PM
I don't have an issue with the guys drinking a beer now and again. If they feels it helps them, they are adults and allow to do it.

However given that the White Sox since JR and Einhorn took over have taken great pains to promote the Sox as a family friendly place, the owners might not look to kindly on this going public in the way that it did.

It's like anything else, it can be abused by an individual and if that's the case then the field manager should be the one to stop it. I haven't seen any evidence yet that it is being abused however.

Lip

Milw
10-13-2011, 01:42 PM
However given that the White Sox since JR and Einhorn took over have taken great pains to promote the Sox as a family friendly place, the owners might not look to kindly on this going public in the way that it did.

:scratch:

Ignoring the fact that the Sox sell beer in the stands--which, obviously, is way more relevant--how does the players drinking in the clubhouse impact in any way the Cell as a family-friendly experience? This is a bizarre statement to me.

This isn't Salt Lake City. The vast majority of Sox fans drink (even those with kids of their own!). The argument about it impacting their on-field performance I get, but family-friendly image? Christ.

JC456
10-13-2011, 01:53 PM
In all honesty it doesn't really mean anything and a couple of sips don't affect his performance, but don't talk about it. Don't forget that your boss is listening and the fans are listening.
I've had a beer at lunch before and it didn't screw up my work performance, but I knew I wasn't supposed to and I sure a hell wouldn't let my employers find out.
Doh!

pythons007
10-13-2011, 02:09 PM
No. It is a very athletic game, not a mental game. Guys would never retire from the sport if it was a mental game. Not to mention, alcohol decreases your mental abilities as well. I'm teaching you science. You're blasting off broscience.



EDIT: And I do enjoy beer and alcohol. Probably too much!

It's both physical and mental. You need a certain physical talent to play the game, but the best players either have freakish physical skills or more often the mental toughness to take the daily grind of constant frustration that comes with playing pro baseball.

I'm neither one way or the other on this issue. If the club makes beer available to players during the games, then no one should be surprised if players drink it.

I also wouldn't assume that occasional late-inning drinking is the cause of of the lack of this team to live up to expectations.

Explain to me how baseball is a very athletic game? It's a skill game. You can't just stick any athlete in there to hit a 95MPH pitch, throw a 95MPH fastball. Not everyone can do it, and you don't need to be an athlete to play this game. Prince/Cecil Fielder, John Kruk, David Wells, and I'm sure you could go on and on. This is slightly off topic but, baseball is a pure skill game. Either you have those skills or you don't.

I'll definately agree that it is very mentally exhausting, but not physical.

pythons007
10-13-2011, 02:17 PM
I don't have an issue with the guys drinking a beer now and again. If they feels it helps them, they are adults and allow to do it.

However given that the White Sox since JR and Einhorn took over have taken great pains to promote the Sox as a family friendly place, the owners might not look to kindly on this going public in the way that it did.

It's like anything else, it can be abused by an individual and if that's the case then the field manager should be the one to stop it. I haven't seen any evidence yet that it is being abused however.

Lip

Well what about when teams win playoff series? Alcohol is all around and shown during interviews, players drinking it, pouring it on eachothers heads...to say that it doesn't show the Sox as a family friendly place is incorrect.

kufram
10-13-2011, 02:56 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/10/jack-mckeon-bathroom-passes-red-sox-marlins/1

This is a manager that knows how to handle players.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 03:12 PM
You're confusing the mental aspect of baseball with just simply being smart. They are different things. You are correct in saying that you need the physical tools to play baseball to actually play, but to say that is all you need is simply incorrect. Baseball is more than just the guy who can swing the hardest always hits a HR or the pitcher who throws the hardest always gets the strike out. This is a sport that is deeply mentally challenging, not in the way that solving a complex math equation is, but in keeping your emotional and mental state at peace so that your physical tools can shine.

I've never actually seen anyone who claims to understand baseball in the slightest actually make the argument that it is all physical and no mental. This thread has hit another hilarious low point.

Why would people who want to be at peace pound greenies every chance they get? That's the part that has yet to be answered by those who think this is all fine and dandy. If in fact the booze not only doesn't hurt but actually helps, why would the game have had to make a dedicated effort to wipe out amphetamines? Are all those guys who were wired out of their skulls (see Canseco while batting for prime example number one of someone gorked to the gills on stimulants) chasing the wrong effect?

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 03:15 PM
Explain to me how baseball is a very athletic game? It's a skill game. You can't just stick any athlete in there to hit a 95MPH pitch, throw a 95MPH fastball. Not everyone can do it, and you don't need to be an athlete to play this game. Prince/Cecil Fielder, John Kruk, David Wells, and I'm sure you could go on and on. This is slightly off topic but, baseball is a pure skill game. Either you have those skills or you don't.

I'll definately agree that it is very mentally exhausting, but not physical.

Then why were guys injecting every known form of steroid and then some into their bodies for most of the last 2 decades minimum?

kittle42
10-13-2011, 03:28 PM
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/10/jack-mckeon-bathroom-passes-red-sox-marlins/1

This is a manager that knows how to handle players.

Yes! "Poo-poo cards and pee-pee cards."

Milw
10-13-2011, 03:32 PM
Why would people who want to be at peace pound greenies every chance they get? That's the part that has yet to be answered by those who think this is all fine and dandy. If in fact the booze not only doesn't hurt but actually helps, why would the game have had to make a dedicated effort to wipe out amphetamines? Are all those guys who were wired out of their skulls (see Canseco while batting for prime example number one of someone gorked to the gills on stimulants) chasing the wrong effect?
You know, that's like asking why some people prefer coffee in the morning and others prefer cigarettes.

Some people need to get amped up, other people need to get calmed down. Different strokes and all that.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 03:33 PM
Why would people who want to be at peace pound greenies every chance they get? That's the part that has yet to be answered by those who think this is all fine and dandy. If in fact the booze not only doesn't hurt but actually helps, why would the game have had to make a dedicated effort to wipe out amphetamines? Are all those guys who were wired out of their skulls (see Canseco while batting for prime example number one of someone gorked to the gills on stimulants) chasing the wrong effect?

Because different people respond to different stimuli differently? Unless you can prove that every single player was doped up on greenies then this is a hollow argument. And if they all were, well, then I guess they're trying to counteract the beers they just slammed in the clubhouse.

Anyways, also, players taking steroids are looking for the long-term effect they have, the increased strength, muscle, etc. Nobody is drinking 1 beer before a game thinking it will chill them out three weeks later in Los Angeles.

Then why were guys injecting every known form of steroid and then some into their bodies for most of the last 2 decades minimum?

Nobody is arguing that it takes no athleticism to play baseball, it's not just not only athleticism that makes great ballplayers great.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 03:34 PM
You know, that's like asking why some people prefer coffee in the morning and others prefer cigarettes.

Not a great example as both caffeine and nicotine are stimulants.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 03:41 PM
You know, that's like asking why some people prefer coffee in the morning and others prefer cigarettes.

Some people need to get amped up, other people need to get calmed down. Different strokes and all that.

Um... Nicotine is a stimulant. It's actually been discussed as a help for older folks suffering from dementia and those treatments are ALWAYS stimulants because they assist with memory recall.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 03:45 PM
Because different people respond to different stimuli differently? Unless you can prove that every single player was doped up on greenies then this is a hollow argument. And if they all were, well, then I guess they're trying to counteract the beers they just slammed in the clubhouse.

Anyways, also, players taking steroids are looking for the long-term effect they have, the increased strength, muscle, etc. Nobody is drinking 1 beer before a game thinking it will chill them out three weeks later in Los Angeles.

You are actually going to sit there and argue that a significant portion of the human population gets better muscle response times from using downers instead of uppers and that thus it should be left to the individual to determine whether they need a shot and a bear or 2 nodoze and a large cup of coffee?

Can you point to a single scientific study that supports your claim?

Vernam
10-13-2011, 03:47 PM
The timing of this is uncanny. Get it? Un-can-ny? :duck:

Big Hurt Beer (http://bighurtbeer.com/)


Frank will be at Binny's South Loop on Saturday from 11:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. Somebody please ask him whether he ever imbibed between at-bats.

Vernam

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 03:47 PM
I'd just like to add that if alcohol has such positive effect on players maybe those guys should get medical marijuana licenses and try the game stoned because it has a much smaller negative physical impact from my perspective...

Milw
10-13-2011, 03:48 PM
Not a great example as both caffeine and nicotine are stimulants.
Go figure, when I occasionally smoke I do so to calm my nerves. Point remains, though.

soltrain21
10-13-2011, 03:48 PM
"Drinking In The Clubhouse" never reached the popularity of "Smoking In The Boys Room" on the Billboard charts.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:02 PM
You're confusing the mental aspect of baseball with just simply being smart. They are different things. You are correct in saying that you need the physical tools to play baseball to actually play, but to say that is all you need is simply incorrect. Baseball is more than just the guy who can swing the hardest always hits a HR or the pitcher who throws the hardest always gets the strike out. This is a sport that is deeply mentally challenging, not in the way that solving a complex math equation is, but in keeping your emotional and mental state at peace so that your physical tools can shine.

I've never actually seen anyone who claims to understand baseball in the slightest actually make the argument that it is all physical and no mental. This thread has hit another hilarious low point.


Explain to me how baseball is a very athletic game? It's a skill game.

I'll definately agree that it is very mentally exhausting, but not physical.

I don't want to argue semantics on skill versus athleticism. My point is that you need to have the physical capabilities to play in MLB. Also, I understand there are pressure situations etc., but just about any normal human can deal with those things. Mental capabilities do not land you in MLB, only physical capabilities will. Obviously there have been a few cases where people crack under pressure, like in the cases of Ankiel, Knoblauch and Greinke. However, I don't think alcohol should be the answer for them. So in that sense I agree with you both, that you will not make it in MLB if you can not handle the mental pressures.

Also, I think you are playing both sides, doublem. You are saying that A.J. is not drinking enough to impair his motor functions. If that is the case, I would also say that he is not drinking enough to gain a relaxing effect from the alcohol. Also, what is the cutoff? One beer is OK, but two is too many? Two is OK, but three is too many? It just doesn't make sense. Once again, any amount of alcohol will reduce the quality of play, no matter how small that may be. So why drink it?

If you do truly believe there was any benefit from using alcohol, then why is it allowed? You seem to be OK with it, so does that mean you are also OK with steroid use? At one point that was not banned by MLB. How about the use of banned stimulants? I don't want to get political, but the stimulants banned by MLB are legal products that can be purchased over the counter in the United States. Any way you flip it, it is not a good thing to be drinking any amounts of alcohol during athletic performance, period.

I would be very happy to see A.J. gone from the team. I guess I didn't realize how annoying he is with Ozzie overshadowing him. Although A.J's mental approach to the game is wonderful, his skills are just not there, and I will be excited to move on.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 04:06 PM
You are actually going to sit there and argue that a significant portion of the human population gets better muscle response times from using downers instead of uppers and that thus it should be left to the individual to determine whether they need a shot and a bear or 2 nodoze and a large cup of coffee?

Can you point to a single scientific study that supports your claim?

No obviously the affects of alcohol are detrimental to one's physical ability, the point being that it's not just physical ability that one needs to be a successful baseball player. Alcohol (and other depressants)'s calming effects are well known both anecdotal and scientifically speaking. I can easily understand how a guy might just need a beer to calm the nerves down or to take a little of the edge off. Note, this does not include getting drunk, or even buzzed, but I sincerely doubt any 250-lb professional athlete is going to feel those effects from a bottle of beer over the course of a baseball game. Even if the relaxing feeling is mostly psychosomatic, in the ideal world, from what I understand from watching baseball for the better part of 20 years now, is that you want your guys relaxed, comfortable, and in the right mind set. If a can of beer provides that mindset, then who the hell are we to debate the scientific merit of how alcohol slows down the body's response time by a fraction of a percent of a second depending on your BAC.

And again AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN, I point to generations of successful Major League baseball players who have successfully somehow managed the horrors of A BEER BEFORE THE GAME with actually being able to play baseball at a high level. AJ's been in the league for 14 years. Guys have paved this road before him. They KNOW WHAT THE **** THEY'RE DOING. I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that these guys are not robots that only think about maximizing their athletic output for the purpose of playing baseball 12 hours per day and that they're real guys who do the same real things that a lot of other guys do.

Nellie_Fox
10-13-2011, 04:06 PM
I would be very happy to see A.J. gone from the team. I guess I didn't realize how annoying he is with Ozzie overshadowing him. A.J.'s skills are just not there, and I will be excited to move on.And what exactly did you see in Tyler Flowers that makes you excited?

delben91
10-13-2011, 04:12 PM
I would be very happy to see A.J. gone from the team. I guess I didn't realize how annoying he is with Ozzie overshadowing him. Although A.J's mental approach to the game is wonderful, his skills are just not there, and I will be excited to move on.

Maybe I take these things less seriously than most and maybe that makes me less of a die-hard. That said, I think if the Sox want to move on from AJ because they have better options at catcher (basically your second sentence), then I'm fine.

If they get rid of him because fans think he's annoying (what I bolded), then that seems like a personality move, not a baseball move.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:13 PM
And what exactly did you see in Tyler Flowers that makes you excited?

A little off topic, but I didn't mention Tyler Flowers. If you want my opinion though, I would be happy to find out if Flowers can make it at the MLB level, especially now that Walker is gone. A.J.'s physical abilities are only going to decline. Since we are in rebuilding mode, I feel it is best to move on.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 04:18 PM
Also, I think you are playing both sides, doublem. You are saying that A.J. is not drinking enough to impair his motor functions. If that is the case, I would also say that he is not drinking enough to gain a relaxing effect from the alcohol. Also, what is the cutoff? One beer is OK, but two is too many? Two is OK, but three is too many? It just doesn't make sense. Once again, any amount of alcohol will reduce the quality of play, no matter how small that may be. So why drink it?


And you don't know one bit of that. God, get over it, you sounds like a DARE officer trying to convince me if I have one drink at dinner and then drive home I'm going to DEFINITELY plow my car into a van full of children and nuns at 70 MPH on a side street. Ballplayers have been drinking forever. They're going to be drinking forever. Rather than throw a hissy fit and pretend like an occasional drink is going to have this calamitous effect on a guy, you could, I don't know... There's gotta be something else you could be doing.

Nellie_Fox
10-13-2011, 04:18 PM
If they get rid of him because fans think he's annoying (what I bolded), then that seems like a personality move, not a baseball move.And while I could easily be wrong, I don't think most Sox fans find him annoying.

It's not even hitting I'm all that concerned with, although he certainly did not impress in that area. Flowers did not impress me defensively. Too many pitches got past him, and he wasn't exactly gunning runners down, either. I am still of the opinion that most of the problem with base stealing is Sox pitchers and a shortstop who is unwilling to straddle the base to take the throw.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:19 PM
And again AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN, I point to generations of successful Major League baseball players who have successfully somehow managed the horrors of A BEER BEFORE THE GAME with actually being able to play baseball at a high level. AJ's been in the league for 14 years. Guys have paved this road before him. They KNOW WHAT THE **** THEY'RE DOING. I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that these guys are not robots that only think about maximizing their athletic output for the purpose of playing baseball 12 hours per day and that they're real guys who do the same real things that a lot of other guys do.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible to step up to the plate and hit a home run immediately after chugging a beer. Of course that is still possible. However, having just one beer will lower the chances of you doing so, no matter how minor that difference may be. Like I said, I enjoy drinking every now and then, but it has no place in any physical competition. It's science, not my opinion.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:23 PM
And you don't know one bit of that. God, get over it, you sounds like a DARE officer trying to convince me if I have one drink at dinner and then drive home I'm going to DEFINITELY plow my car into a van full of children and nuns at 70 MPH on a side street. Ballplayers have been drinking forever. They're going to be drinking forever. Rather than throw a hissy fit and pretend like an occasional drink is going to have this calamitous effect on a guy, you could, I don't know... There's gotta be something else you could be doing.

Once again, see my above post. I certainly think it is still possible to have success after drinking a beer, it just lowers your chances.

I feel you are starting to realize that you are wrong, and are using hyperbole to berate my facts. And yes, I'm a big loser with nothing to do all day. What does that make you for commenting on my remarks?

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:35 PM
Also, I am curious on hearing why you or anyone else feels it is fair to benefit from alcohol use (even though that is not true), but not other performance enhancing drugs like steroids or even legal OTC stimulants currently banned by MLB. Assuming you are against those things, but maybe you are not.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 04:37 PM
Again, I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible to step up to the plate and hit a home run immediately after chugging a beer. Of course that is still possible. However, having just one beer will lower the chances of you doing so, no matter how minor that difference may be. Like I said, I enjoy drinking every now and then, but it has no place in any physical competition. It's science, not my opinion.

Once again, see my above post. I certainly think it is still possible to have success after drinking a beer, it just lowers your chances.

I feel you are starting to realize that you are wrong, and are using hyperbole to berate my facts. And yes, I'm a big loser with nothing to do all day. What does that make you for commenting on my remarks?

Uh, no not at all, I'm laughing my ass off over here. This is one of the most astonishingly ridiculous threads I have ever had to read through. My hyperbole is only because I am having a gay old time in this thread. We're literally arguing the effects of a single beer. Which, as anyone should be able to tell you, is basically none. Generally speaking, a normal adult clears alcohol out of their body at a rate of 1 ounce per hour, meaning a standard 5% ABV, the booze will be completely out of your system in about 30 minutes. And the rest of that time, you will be floating around a 0.01. Party Animal.

You're arguing against 100+ years of not just baseball, but otherwise, athletic history and tradition. And yes, while I agree in a perfect world our pro athletes would be model citizens who would not need such things as a beer or a drink every now and then to help them out along the way, here in Planet Reality that is simply not the case. Men and women from all walks of life have been helped by depressants for their anti-anxiety and stress-relief properties. Again this breaks down to an argument of you, with all your little pamphlets and horror stories about how one drink will turn you into a murderer or something, against a 14-year veteran in the Major Leagues. How could anyone possibly side with him???

doublem23
10-13-2011, 04:38 PM
Also, I am curious on hearing why you or anyone else feels it is fair to benefit from alcohol use (even though that is not true), but not other performance enhancing drugs like steroids or even legal OTC stimulants currently banned by MLB. Assuming you are against those things, but maybe you are not.

Do you really need to be told why alcohol is allowed by steroids are not? Really? REALLY? REALLY? REALLY?

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:38 PM
Maybe I take these things less seriously than most and maybe that makes me less of a die-hard. That said, I think if the Sox want to move on from AJ because they have better options at catcher (basically your second sentence), then I'm fine.

If they get rid of him because fans think he's annoying (what I bolded), then that seems like a personality move, not a baseball move.


I guess you should have bolded the rest of my statement. It seems you missed it, so I will type it again:

Although A.J's mental approach to the game is wonderful, his skills are just not there, and I will be excited to move on.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:39 PM
Do you really need to be told why alcohol is allowed by steroids are not? Really? REALLY? REALLY? REALLY?


You forgot to answer regarding legal OTC stimulants.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:46 PM
Uh, no not at all, I'm laughing my ass off over here. This is one of the most astonishingly ridiculous threads I have ever had to read through. My hyperbole is only because I am having a gay old time in this thread. We're literally arguing the effects of a single beer. Which, as anyone should be able to tell you, is basically none. Generally speaking, a normal adult clears alcohol out of their body at a rate of 1 ounce per hour, meaning a standard 5% ABV, the booze will be completely out of your system in about 30 minutes. And the rest of that time, you will be floating around a 0.01. Party Animal.

You're arguing against 100+ years of not just baseball, but otherwise, athletic history and tradition. And yes, while I agree in a perfect world our pro athletes would be model citizens who would not need such things as a beer or a drink every now and then to help them out along the way, here in Planet Reality that is simply not the case. Men and women from all walks of life have been helped by depressants for their anti-anxiety and stress-relief properties. Again this breaks down to an argument of you, with all your little pamphlets and horror stories about how one drink will turn you into a murderer or something, against a 14-year veteran in the Major Leagues. How could anyone possibly side with him???

Hey, you are the guy who said alcohol has a great calming effect and will help AJ play better. (Note: this is the only ridiculous thing posted in the entire thread)

I'm not sure why you are talking about murder. All I am saying is even small amounts of alcohol will slightly decrease your abilities. Not buy a lot, but by a little. There is no place for it when competing in a baseball game or any other competitive sport.

kittle42
10-13-2011, 04:49 PM
All I am saying is even small amounts of alcohol will slightly decrease your abilities. Not buy a lot, but by a little. There is no place for it when competing in a baseball game or any other competitive sport.

Unless that sport is shotgunning beers.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 04:53 PM
Unless that sport is shotgunning beers.

I guess even I, can sometimes be wrong.

delben91
10-13-2011, 05:01 PM
I guess you should have bolded the rest of my statement. It seems you missed it, so I will type it again:

Although A.J's mental approach to the game is wonderful, his skills are just not there, and I will be excited to move on.

No, I got your meaning, and I wasn't trying to mis-represent it so I'm sorry if I did.

I was more trying to reflect my processing of your first post as I read it.

You'd be happy to see AJ gone from the team.
You think Ozzie's presence covered how annoying AJ is (I thought of this as a rationale supporting the first statement).

You then made the statement you re-quoted above, which I get was the real rationale. The only bigger point I was trying to make (not specifcally to you) was that there are some posts in this thread that imply AJ should be gone from the Sox strictly based on his comments about having a beer during the game.

I guess my stance is I couldn't care less what the players are doing as long as they perform and aren't otherwise a detriment to the team as a whole. So if there's a better option for the Sox at Catcher, sure, do it, but let's not make this call strictly on AJ's drinking habits in the clubhouse.

TaylorStSox
10-13-2011, 05:02 PM
And while I could easily be wrong, I don't think most Sox fans find him annoying.

It's not even hitting I'm all that concerned with, although he certainly did not impress in that area. Flowers did not impress me defensively. Too many pitches got past him, and he wasn't exactly gunning runners down, either. I am still of the opinion that most of the problem with base stealing is Sox pitchers and a shortstop who is unwilling to straddle the base to take the throw.

Over the last 5 years AJ has probably caught 50 different pitchers. It's obviously their fault. Teal unnecessary.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 05:07 PM
You're arguing against 100+ years of not just baseball, but otherwise, athletic history and tradition. And yes, while I agree in a perfect world our pro athletes would be model citizens who would not need such things as a beer or a drink every now and then to help them out along the way, here in Planet Reality that is simply not the case. Men and women from all walks of life have been helped by depressants for their anti-anxiety and stress-relief properties. Again this breaks down to an argument of you, with all your little pamphlets and horror stories about how one drink will turn you into a murderer or something, against a 14-year veteran in the Major Leagues. How could anyone possibly side with him???

You are arguing against science. I don't care if Babe Ruth used to drink a beer between innings. That was a long time ago, and we have evolved since then. We now know the effects of things today that we didn't then. Lots of things have changed over the last 100 years.

VA_GoGoSox
10-13-2011, 05:08 PM
You are strictly talking about hydration also. The discussion is about the effects of alcohol on muscle response time and other factors. I apologize if I came across as harsh I admit that attempts to pass off information about one aspect of a given issue as a rebuttal to a different aspect of that issue push my buttons.



I wasn't being intellectually dishonest -- these aspects are intertwined. Hydration levels affect "muscle response time and other factors". Since beer is more effective at hydrating an athlete, you can make the argument that drinking beer rather than water would increase your abilities as a ballplayer. I'll drink to that!

Also, this thread is hilarious

kufram
10-13-2011, 05:09 PM
This is one of those threads where one poster is putting all kinds of words in people's posts that just are not there to the point of injecting pure hyperbole that obscures quite reasonable points.

Nobody here has said AJ is a drunk and isn't fit to play because he drinks too much... oh wait, one poster is saying that other posters are saying that when they are not.

What AJ said isn't what people are talking about. Beer drinking being banned from baseball isn't what people are talking about... I think some people are just a little surprised that any kind of beer drinking is taking place in a clubhouse during a game in this day and age. It's not being made into that big of a deal, it is just a little surprising. This is a team sport... even if you are not in the game you should be on the bench paying attention.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 05:10 PM
No, I got your meaning, and I wasn't trying to mis-represent it so I'm sorry if I did.

I was more trying to reflect my processing of your first post as I read it.

You'd be happy to see AJ gone from the team.
You think Ozzie's presence covered how annoying AJ is (I thought of this as a rationale supporting the first statement).

You then made the statement you re-quoted above, which I get was the real rationale. The only bigger point I was trying to make (not specifcally to you) was that there are some posts in this thread that imply AJ should be gone from the Sox strictly based on his comments about having a beer during the game.

I guess my stance is I couldn't care less what the players are doing as long as they perform and aren't otherwise a detriment to the team as a whole. So if there's a better option for the Sox at Catcher, sure, do it, but let's not make this call strictly on AJ's drinking habits in the clubhouse.

I want A.J. gone because his hitting sucks, and hasn't thrown out a runner since 2007 it seems. All of his other antics just make me want to expedite the process. I can live with crazy antics as long as someone is performing.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 05:13 PM
This is one of those threads where one poster is putting all kinds of words in people's posts that just are not there to the point of injecting pure hyperbole that obscures quite reasonable points.

Nobody here has said AJ is a drunk and isn't fit to play because he drinks too much... oh wait, one poster is saying that other posters are saying that when they are not.

What AJ said isn't what people are talking about. Beer drinking being banned from baseball isn't what people are talking about... I think some people are just a little surprised that any kind of beer drinking is taking place in a clubhouse during a game in this day and age. It's not being made into that big of a deal, it is just a little surprising. This is a team sport... even if you are not in the game you should be on the bench paying attention.

Thank you. You are my new best friend on WSI.

thomas35forever
10-13-2011, 05:24 PM
How the hell did this thread expand so quickly? Yes, it's a bit concerning that players were taking shots before a playoff game, but why is everybody acting like saints on here and saying anyone on the team who's been drinking during a game should be shown the door? As the Bible says, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Don't act like you've all been perfect with your jobs. I'm sure more than a few of you have gone back to the office on occasion just slightly tipsy.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 05:32 PM
How the hell did this thread expand so quickly? Yes, it's a bit concerning that players were taking shots before a playoff game, but why is everybody acting like saints on here and saying anyone on the team who's been drinking during a game should be shown the door? As the Bible says, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Don't act like you've all been perfect with your jobs. I'm sure more than a few of you have gone back to the office on occasion just slightly tipsy.

Did someone say that? I must have missed that.

thomas35forever
10-13-2011, 05:37 PM
Did someone say that? I must have missed that.
See the original post. The person wondered if AJ drinking in the clubhouse could be grounds for Kenny getting rid of him.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 05:55 PM
How the hell did this thread expand so quickly? Yes, it's a bit concerning that players were taking shots before a playoff game, but why is everybody acting like saints on here and saying anyone on the team who's been drinking during a game should be shown the door? As the Bible says, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Don't act like you've all been perfect with your jobs. I'm sure more than a few of you have gone back to the office on occasion just slightly tipsy.

That's not what this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not you get better performance out of ballplayers by treating them like a pack of 11-year-olds that must adhere to strict rules or if you can treat them like real adults who are able to make responsible decisions affecting their body and physical performance. OK, sure, keeping them locked up in the dugout and forcing everyone to keep score might keep them on the tip of their athletic performance, but in the long run, is that how you run a successful team? Does anyone actually think that putting these guys through a DARE program and preaching to them how bad that one beer before the game is for you is actually the way to run a successful ball club? Unless you prefer that your employer treat you like an 11-year-old, have fun.

doublem23
10-13-2011, 05:56 PM
What AJ said isn't what people are talking about. Beer drinking being banned from baseball isn't what people are talking about... I think some people are just a little surprised that any kind of beer drinking is taking place in a clubhouse during a game in this day and age. It's not being made into that big of a deal, it is just a little surprising. This is a team sport... even if you are not in the game you should be on the bench paying attention.

Anyone who would be surprised to find out players drink beer during a game is insane. Did AJ's comments actually open people's eyes to this kind of behavior? Is that a joke?

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 06:01 PM
See the original post. The person wondered if AJ drinking in the clubhouse could be grounds for Kenny getting rid of him.

Your exaggeration is the same reason the thread blew up in the first place. The OP simply asked if Kenny might use this as an opportunity to show AJ the door.

Lip Man 1
10-13-2011, 06:06 PM
Milw / Python:

Because of the way it came out on national radio, JR and Eddie could be embarrassed by it. The Sox weren't able to control the message.

I have no idea how they are reacting to this but they might not be happy about it because it is contrary to the image they want to portray.

Selling beer in the stands, and pouring it over one another is part of baseball, drinking a beer during a game, while I'm sure it's gone on and again I have no problem with it, is not that publicized or well known and as such might get folks mad, just look at the opinions here in this thread for an example.

Lips

doublem23
10-13-2011, 06:08 PM
You are arguing against science. I don't care if Babe Ruth used to drink a beer between innings. That was a long time ago, and we have evolved since then. We now know the effects of things today that we didn't then. Lots of things have changed over the last 100 years.

And you are arguing against simple reality. Nobody at all has tried to refute your points that the insignificant amount of alcohol in a beer might have a incredibly small detrimental effect on your motor skills. I get that. But the overall point you continue to miss is that these are real people just like everyone else, and treating them all like a pack of high school kids and you really think you won't see any other side effects, I would just have to say you are crazy. Again, please don't take it as a sign of disrespect that I still will side with the countless players who have played baseball before and had successful careers all while experiencing the horrors of a small amount of alcohol. Please call me when you get to that level, though, and I may reconsider my position.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 06:19 PM
I wasn't being intellectually dishonest -- these aspects are intertwined. Hydration levels affect "muscle response time and other factors". Since beer is more effective at hydrating an athlete, you can make the argument that drinking beer rather than water would increase your abilities as a ballplayer. I'll drink to that!

Also, this thread is hilarious

Well seems to me you could just drink double the water or Gatorade which I bet puts them both to shame. I am sure there are lots of other products that don't have alcohol in them that hydrate as well or better than beer. Just because it's better than water doesn't mean it's the best option. Also, alcohol is a diuretic so it may hydrate slightly better than water but it will also cause you to sweat more and urinate more so if you are drinking it over the course of several hours while in competition and still sweating odds are whatever positive effects are garnered will be lost very quickly.

Dibbs
10-13-2011, 06:19 PM
And you are arguing against simple reality. Nobody at all has tried to refute your points that the insignificant amount of alcohol in a beer might have a incredibly small detrimental effect on your motor skills. I get that. But the overall point you continue to miss is that these are real people just like everyone else, and treating them all like a pack of high school kids and you really think you won't see any other side effects, I would just have to say you are crazy. Again, please don't take it as a sign of disrespect that I still will side with the countless players who have played baseball before and had successful careers all while experiencing the horrors of a small amount of alcohol. Please call me when you get to that level, though, and I may reconsider my position.

Fair enough. Maybe I am just being naive, but I find it hard to believe countless players have and are drinking alcohol during an athletic performance, especially nowadays. I have played a lot of organized sports in my life, but I have never seen someone drinking alcohol during a serious sporting event. I don't think it is anywhere near the worst thing to happen, but if I were in charge of the White Sox, I would put a ban on drinking alcohol during games now that this has come out.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 06:22 PM
How the hell did this thread expand so quickly? Yes, it's a bit concerning that players were taking shots before a playoff game, but why is everybody acting like saints on here and saying anyone on the team who's been drinking during a game should be shown the door? As the Bible says, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Don't act like you've all been perfect with your jobs. I'm sure more than a few of you have gone back to the office on occasion just slightly tipsy.

And who said that and how is this suddenly a moral issue? I don't see a single poster saying, "drinking is a sin so kick all those drunks to the curb."

This is a complete twisting of the sentiments expressed in this thread.

:postsucks:

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 06:27 PM
That's not what this thread is about. This thread is about whether or not you get better performance out of ballplayers by treating them like a pack of 11-year-olds that must adhere to strict rules or if you can treat them like real adults who are able to make responsible decisions affecting their body and physical performance. OK, sure, keeping them locked up in the dugout and forcing everyone to keep score might keep them on the tip of their athletic performance, but in the long run, is that how you run a successful team? Does anyone actually think that putting these guys through a DARE program and preaching to them how bad that one beer before the game is for you is actually the way to run a successful ball club? Unless you prefer that your employer treat you like an 11-year-old, have fun.

WRONG!

More hyperbole. No one is saying they expect them to follow the same rules as a little league team. People are asking if drinking (which is ONE aspect of the difference between being 11 years old and being an adult) should be allowed and to what extent this team has an alcohol problem and how much that has affected their ability to play to their potential.

Oh and Joe Maddon seemed to do just fine while dispensing bathroom passes and locking up the clubhouse during game in 2003.

You are the one who is presenting this issue in extreme examples for what purpose I have no idea. You certainly aren't winning the argument and when you have to constantly invent strawmen to knock down it might tell you that.

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 06:28 PM
Anyone who would be surprised to find out players drink beer during a game is insane. Did AJ's comments actually open people's eyes to this kind of behavior? Is that a joke?

Well color me insane then...

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 06:29 PM
And you are arguing against simple reality. Nobody at all has tried to refute your points that the insignificant amount of alcohol in a beer might have a incredibly small detrimental effect on your motor skills. I get that. But the overall point you continue to miss is that these are real people just like everyone else, and treating them all like a pack of high school kids and you really think you won't see any other side effects, I would just have to say you are crazy. Again, please don't take it as a sign of disrespect that I still will side with the countless players who have played baseball before and had successful careers all while experiencing the horrors of a small amount of alcohol. Please call me when you get to that level, though, and I may reconsider my position.

Yep and most real people DON'T drink on the job. Nope not even one itsy bitsy teeny tiny beer...

thomas35forever
10-13-2011, 06:30 PM
WRONG!

More hyperbole. No one is saying they expect them to follow the same rules as a little league team. People are asking if drinking (which is ONE aspect of the difference between being 11 years old and being an adult) should be allowed and to what extent this team has an alcohol problem and how much that has affected their ability to play to their potential.

Oh and Joe Maddon seemed to do just fine while dispensing bathroom passes and locking up the clubhouse during game in 2003.

You are the one who is presenting this issue in extreme examples for what purpose I have no idea. You certainly aren't winning the argument and when you have to constantly invent strawmen to knock down it might tell you that.
What did Joe Maddon do in 2003?:scratch:

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 06:32 PM
What did Joe Maddon do in 2003?:scratch:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2842063&postcount=131

thomas35forever
10-13-2011, 06:34 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2842063&postcount=131
Joe Maddon ≠ Jack McKeon

voodoochile
10-13-2011, 06:37 PM
Joe Maddon ≠ Jack McKeon

Thanks I didn't go back and re-read the article and was going off memory.

VMSNS
10-13-2011, 07:02 PM
I'm sure Alexei and Lillabridge are hammered after one beer. Those guys are skinny as rails. :D:

OldRomanPizza
10-13-2011, 07:03 PM
I feel like Allen Iverson

"Baseball used to have huge, near irreversible problems with steroids and other substances and we're here talking about beer!?!. Thats silly man!"

guillensdisciple
10-13-2011, 07:03 PM
I'm sure Alexei and Lillabridge are hammered after one beer. Those guys are skinny as rails. :D:


That's for sure lol.

Brian26
10-13-2011, 07:11 PM
This is one of those threads where one poster is putting all kinds of words in people's posts that just are not there to the point of injecting pure hyperbole that obscures quite reasonable points.

Nobody here has said AJ is a drunk and isn't fit to play because he drinks too much... oh wait, one poster is saying that other posters are saying that when they are not.

What AJ said isn't what people are talking about. Beer drinking being banned from baseball isn't what people are talking about... I think some people are just a little surprised that any kind of beer drinking is taking place in a clubhouse during a game in this day and age. It's not being made into that big of a deal, it is just a little surprising. This is a team sport... even if you are not in the game you should be on the bench paying attention.

It's also comical, in this day and age when so much is known about advanced nutrition, supplements, conditioning, weight training, how the body reacts under stress in sports, etc, that someone here is trying to make the point that drinking beer during a professional athletic contest is acceptable.

Brian26
10-13-2011, 07:17 PM
Anyone who would be surprised to find out players drink beer during a game is insane. Did AJ's comments actually open people's eyes to this kind of behavior? Is that a joke?

I disagree. This isn't 16-inch softball from 1970. These are multi-million dollar athletes on the biggest stage with professional trainers, conditioning coachs and state-of-the-art facilities. With all of the knowledge and resources, you're telling me its common knowledge that guys are doing shots before a game or drinking beer?

Falstaff
10-13-2011, 08:49 PM
I tip my hat to AJ for being real, for his "this is who I am, take it or leave it" genuine nature. We have seen he is a warrior (all those years, 1 teeny DL stint!) and his no BS attitude often extends into his play. You know darn tootin well that this act won some very important games, during one magical post season. We've seen his hustle non-BS performantce yaer after years wid da sox. Sheesh who caresh iffen he pounda few, it helpsh soam gize du bedder. Sheriously.:dtroll:

doublem23
10-13-2011, 09:56 PM
Well seems to me you could just drink double the water or Gatorade which I bet puts them both to shame. I am sure there are lots of other products that don't have alcohol in them that hydrate as well or better than beer. Just because it's better than water doesn't mean it's the best option. Also, alcohol is a diuretic so it may hydrate slightly better than water but it will also cause you to sweat more and urinate more so if you are drinking it over the course of several hours while in competition and still sweating odds are whatever positive effects are garnered will be lost very quickly.

Gatorade is basically non-carbonated pop

doublem23
10-13-2011, 09:59 PM
Oh and Joe Maddon seemed to do just fine while dispensing bathroom passes and locking up the clubhouse during game in 2003.

Well I know you mean McKeon, but, if you were paying attention, that I don't have as much of a problem with tougher rules on younger players, they're less likely to know their limits, more likely to abuse rules, etc. Different strokes for different teams, a young team like the '03 Marlins probably do need more strict rules than a more veteran team. This is just common sense, IMO.

VA_GoGoSox
10-13-2011, 11:56 PM
Just because it's better than water doesn't mean it's the best option. Also, alcohol is a diuretic so it may hydrate slightly better than water but it will also cause you to sweat more and urinate more so if you are drinking it over the course of several hours while in competition and still sweating odds are whatever positive effects are garnered will be lost very quickly.

AJ said:
"It's just, sometimes you just need a rally beer. If you’re in extra innings and you’re in about the 15th inning and you really need to get going again, that sometimes works for you."

Nothing that AJ said implies that he is drinking over the course of several hours. His comment is about having a beer in the late innings of a game. The diuretic properties of the alcohol in beer would of course be a problem for an athlete--if he were drinking more than a few. However, that is not the case here.

:gulp:

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 01:24 AM
AJ said:
"It's just, sometimes you just need a rally beer. If you’re in extra innings and you’re in about the 15th inning and you really need to get going again, that sometimes works for you."

Nothing that AJ said implies that he is drinking over the course of several hours. His comment is about having a beer in the late innings of a game. The diuretic properties of the alcohol in beer would of course be a problem for an athlete--if he were drinking more than a few. However, that is not the case here.

:gulp:

As far as we know and as far as AJ is willing to admit to...

MUsoxfan
10-14-2011, 01:43 AM
As far as we know and as far as AJ is willing to admit to...

Then give up on the Sox and baseball in general. The game is clearly not for you. Baseball has been like this for a century. Yes, we are a more knowledable world now. Baseball hasn't changed and probably won't change.

kufram
10-14-2011, 04:39 AM
Then give up on the Sox and baseball in general. The game is clearly not for you. Baseball has been like this for a century. Yes, we are a more knowledable world now. Baseball hasn't changed and probably won't change.


I have to say that baseball has changed a lot just in my lifetime, not to mention the last 100 years. It is always changing and always will change I would imagine.

October26
10-14-2011, 05:54 AM
I have to say that baseball has changed a lot just in my lifetime, not to mention the last 100 years. It is always changing and always will change I would imagine.

It sure has, kufram. I would add that social media along with the numerous communication sources that are available today, results in information overload - at times.

But I wouldn't have it any other way. I can remember being a teenaged Sox fan in the 1970's and wishing there was more discussion or information about the White Sox. My love for this team is rooted in that decade, when most of the Sox teams were bad. Especially during the off-season, there was zero information/discussion about the Sox. I'd rather have too much information than none at all. I think this is one of the reasons that I visit WSI so much. I don't mind having to be selective about what I read.

kufram
10-14-2011, 07:04 AM
It sure has, kufram. I would add that social media along with the numerous communication sources that are available today, results in information overload - at times.

But I wouldn't have it any other way. I can remember being a teenaged Sox fan in the 1970's and wishing there was more discussion or information about the White Sox. My love for this team is rooted in that decade, when most of the Sox teams were bad. Especially during the off-season, there was zero information/discussion about the Sox. I'd rather have too much information than none at all. I think this is one of the reasons that I visit WSI so much. I don't mind having to be selective about what I read.

I agree. Were it not for the internet I would be following the White Sox like I had to before... through the International Herald Tribune, 5 days a week, and 2-3 days late. Of course, not all change is to my liking. For example, I don't like in game interviews. They never reveal anything interesting and I'd rather the manager, and players be just that during a game... manager and players. But, I can live with it and I guess the commentators need the help to fill up all of that air space.

But it is not just the information and the access to the principals that has changed. I don't know how much Babe Ruth's bat weighed but I think it might have been a little more than anybody's bat today. A broken bat never used to mean dangerous shards flying everywhere. I'm sure there are more primary differences to do with the equipment a catcher wears also.

The way the game is being played has changed. No more doubleheaders every week. The rosters have changed in fundamental ways. Maybe the clubhouses have actually changed over the years in ways we don't know anything about?

kittle42
10-14-2011, 10:25 AM
As far as we know and as far as AJ is willing to admit to...

voodoo, I generally agree with you that the level of hyperbole in this thread is ridiculous and that we have gone beyond the boundaries of what anyone is really talking about here, but in a way, you were a part of that from the beginning when you took AJ's quote, as you did in this post, and implied that because he has a rally beer in extra innings, he must be - either routinely or occasionally - drinking more.

I doubt anyone in this thread is going to argue that it's not a problem if a player is drinking alcohol routinely before/during games, regardless of Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle. But, if we are only going on the information presented, that is *not* the case here, and is merely a hypothetical you brought up.

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 10:31 AM
Then give up on the Sox and baseball in general. The game is clearly not for you. Baseball has been like this for a century. Yes, we are a more knowledable world now. Baseball hasn't changed and probably won't change.

Yes yes, because I prefer my athletes be sober when they play and don't use steroids, I should quit the game forever. What wonderful advice. My life is changed forever.

I'm out guys, thanks for the ride. Hope you losers all see the light like I have. Thank you MUsoxfan from the heart of my bottom...:tongue:

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 10:40 AM
voodoo, I generally agree with you that the level of hyperbole in this thread is ridiculous and that we have gone beyond the boundaries of what anyone is really talking about here, but in a way, you were a part of that from the beginning when you took AJ's quote, as you did in this post, and implied that because he has a rally beer in extra innings, he must be - either routinely or occasionally - drinking more.

I doubt anyone in this thread is going to argue that it's not a problem if a player is drinking alcohol routinely before/during games, regardless of Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle. But, if we are only going on the information presented, that is *not* the case here, and is merely a hypothetical you brought up.

True, I guess my skepticism comes from watching so many people tell half-truths in an attempt to not outright lie to the media. For all that, my main point is that this deserves watching and hopefully the Sox can (continue to) keep it under control.

I also think there maybe anecdotal evidence in the form of regularly not playing to their talent level that something needs fixing. Maybe it was Ozzie. Maybe it was Walker. Maybe it was loose clubhouse rules that implied it was okay to drink during games and people abused that privilege. Maybe it's that the team can't stand Bossard and are losing to spite him. Whatever the problem is, with a management change comes the opportunity to fix some of these failings.

Hopefully this is much ado about nothing and I am overreacting. It does set off red flags for me though and hope in time it isn't proven to be just the tip of the proverbial iceberg...

Dibbs
10-14-2011, 10:44 AM
Then give up on the Sox and baseball in general. The game is clearly not for you. Baseball has been like this for a century. Yes, we are a more knowledable world now. Baseball hasn't changed and probably won't change.

The game isn't for people who think athletes shouldn't be drinking during an actual game? MLB is not the same thing as Mike North's Chicago rec league softball.

doublem23
10-14-2011, 10:47 AM
Hopefully this is much ado about nothing and I am overreacting. It does set off red flags for me though and hope in time it isn't proven to be just the tip of the proverbial iceberg...

It's a beer.

http://elbatower.com/GeoCache/francis.jpg

Viva Medias B's
10-14-2011, 11:32 AM
I don't think players should be consuming alcohol in the clubhouse before or during the ballgame. It's not the end of the world that it happened, but going forward this should be a uniform MLB policy.

Daver
10-14-2011, 11:39 AM
I don't think players should be consuming alcohol in the clubhouse before or during the ballgame. It's not the end of the world that it happened, but going forward this should be a uniform MLB policy.


Why should your morals dictate MLB policy?

sox1970
10-14-2011, 11:49 AM
Why should your morals dictate MLB policy?

Morals schmorals. It should just be common sense you don't drink during a game. And if they do, you don't admit it on a radio show.

This has got to be one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen.

kufram
10-14-2011, 11:59 AM
I don't think anyone's morals should dictate mlb policy but I don't think that is what the OP was trying to do. I'm surprised that mlb allows alcohol in clubhouses during a game. Is beer allowed in the dugout during a game? Seriously... is there a policy banning alcohol from dugouts during games?

If it is only a beer then no one is going to care if it isn't there.

MUsoxfan
10-14-2011, 12:06 PM
Yes yes, because I prefer my athletes be sober when they play and don't use steroids, I should quit the game forever. What wonderful advice. My life is changed forever.

I'm out guys, thanks for the ride. Hope you losers all see the light like I have. Thank you MUsoxfan from the heart of my bottom...:tongue:

Hey, I know you like beer...in fact we've had a beer together. I think we all just have to assume that most of guys on the field have a sip between innings from time to time. It's not gonna take away from my enjoyment of the game.

doublem23
10-14-2011, 12:30 PM
Yes yes, because I prefer my athletes be sober when they play and don't use steroids, I should quit the game forever. What wonderful advice. My life is changed forever.


And you dare accuse me of hyperbole? Pot meet kettle.

wilburaga
10-14-2011, 12:53 PM
I don't want my surgeon to have a 'pop' before the operation. I don't want my pilot to have a 'pop' before the flight. Those aren't moral judgments.

kittle42
10-14-2011, 12:54 PM
I don't want my surgeon to have a 'pop' before the operation. I don't want my pilot to have a 'pop' before the flight. Those aren't moral judgments.

Come on, it takes the edge off! :D:

MUsoxfan
10-14-2011, 12:57 PM
I don't want my surgeon to have a 'pop' before the operation. I don't want my pilot to have a 'pop' before the flight. Those aren't moral judgments.

You're seriously equating life & death jobs with the ability to hit a ball with a stick?

hi im skot
10-14-2011, 01:11 PM
You're seriously equating life & death jobs with the ability to hit a ball with a stick?

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/Kris3030/baseballislife.jpg

pythons007
10-14-2011, 01:14 PM
I don't think players should be consuming alcohol in the clubhouse before or during the ballgame. It's not the end of the world that it happened, but going forward this should be a uniform MLB policy.

I don't think anyone's morals should dictate mlb policy but I don't think that is what the OP was trying to do. I'm surprised that mlb allows alcohol in clubhouses during a game. Is beer allowed in the dugout during a game? Seriously... is there a policy banning alcohol from dugouts during games?

If it is only a beer then no one is going to care if it isn't there.

In the Clubhouse? Beer is all over that stadium. Advertisements, in the stands, in the parking lots! They have to walk through all that just to get to the field.
What do you guys think was being poured over all the players that won the World Series? Grape Juice!?!?

1. Alcohol is legal
2. AJ said he took a couple sips, never more than half a can
3. It's a freaking beer

As long as they aren't abusing it, drinking so much that they're inpaired. Then who gives a flying ****?

For people on here to side against AJ for what he said (as far as only consuming so much beer), have no right unless they have proof. You're not a judge, jury, or executioner! You're stating nothing more than opinion.

IT'S HALF A BEER, A SIP OF A BEER, ITS A FREAKING BEER! It's not STERIODS, it's not GREENIES, it's not anything ILLEGAL.

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 01:39 PM
And you dare accuse me of hyperbole? Pot meet kettle.

My post was obvious sarcasm I thought based on the total tone of it and the post I was responding to suggesting I quit baseball over my outrage. No idea why anyone would think I'm a diehard Sox fan after all.

Don't see how my comment could be construed as hyperbole though. Guess it depends on your definition of sober. To me you don't have to be blind stinking drunk to not be considered sober.

Marqhead
10-14-2011, 01:42 PM
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m168/Kris3030/baseballislife.jpg

I may have been one of the nerds that had this on a shirt.

SOXPHILE
10-14-2011, 01:57 PM
Keith Hernandez related after his last at bat going in the clubhouse drinking a beer with a teammate (i forgot who) thinking they lost the WS and then a certain ball rolled threw a former Cub legs...

Keith Hernandez was ingesting other things into his body, via that thing we have above our mouths in the middle of our faces.

spawn
10-14-2011, 02:03 PM
I don't want my surgeon to have a 'pop' before the operation. I don't want my pilot to have a 'pop' before the flight. Those aren't moral judgments.

You're seriously equating life & death jobs with the ability to hit a ball with a stick?

No kidding. Baseball is supposed to be for entertainment. Comparing it to surgeons and pilots? Really?

FielderJones
10-14-2011, 02:11 PM
Of course, not all change is to my liking.

Life is change, how it differs from the rocks.

kufram
10-14-2011, 03:02 PM
In the Clubhouse? Beer is all over that stadium. Advertisements, in the stands, in the parking lots! They have to walk through all that just to get to the field.
What do you guys think was being poured over all the players that won the World Series? Grape Juice!?!?

1. Alcohol is legal
2. AJ said he took a couple sips, never more than half a can
3. It's a freaking beer

As long as they aren't abusing it, drinking so much that they're inpaired. Then who gives a flying ****?

For people on here to side against AJ for what he said (as far as only consuming so much beer), have no right unless they have proof. You're not a judge, jury, or executioner! You're stating nothing more than opinion.

IT'S HALF A BEER, A SIP OF A BEER, ITS A FREAKING BEER! It's not STERIODS, it's not GREENIES, it's not anything ILLEGAL.


Well, you see when they pour beer over their heads the game is actually over. I love these posts that tell people off for things they didn't say. Nobody's freaking out like you imply... just don't think it belongs in a clubhouse during the game.

Dibbs
10-14-2011, 03:15 PM
In the Clubhouse? Beer is all over that stadium. Advertisements, in the stands, in the parking lots! They have to walk through all that just to get to the field.
What do you guys think was being poured over all the players that won the World Series? Grape Juice!?!?

1. Alcohol is legal
2. AJ said he took a couple sips, never more than half a can
3. It's a freaking beer

As long as they aren't abusing it, drinking so much that they're inpaired. Then who gives a flying ****?

For people on here to side against AJ for what he said (as far as only consuming so much beer), have no right unless they have proof. You're not a judge, jury, or executioner! You're stating nothing more than opinion.

IT'S HALF A BEER, A SIP OF A BEER, ITS A FREAKING BEER! It's not STERIODS, it's not GREENIES, it's not anything ILLEGAL.

I've asked this a few times, and I'm not surprised I haven't gotten a response. Why is it OK that MLB bans legal over the counter stimulants? And I don't want to hear that stimulants are a competitive advantage. If alcohol 'takes the edge off', isn't that a competitive advantage? Regardless, alcohol use by players should be banned during all MLB games.

CLR01
10-14-2011, 03:15 PM
You're seriously equating life & death jobs with the ability to hit a ball with a stick?

Who cares how serious the job is, it is just a beer, right?

wilburaga
10-14-2011, 03:21 PM
No kidding. Baseball is supposed to be for entertainment. Comparing it to surgeons and pilots? Really?

Actually, my point is, if a single beer has virtually no effect, (as has been maintained within this thread) why would one be uneasy if their surgeon or pilot had a 'pop'? Are we arguing over whether a single beer has an effect, or the relative importances of surgery and baseball? Or have I stumbled into the 'Abuse' room.

spawn
10-14-2011, 03:26 PM
Actually, my point is, if a single beer has virtually no effect, (as has been maintained within this thread) why would one be uneasy if their surgeon or pilot had a 'pop'? Are we arguing over whether a single beer has an effect, or the relative importances of surgery and baseball? Or have I stumbled into the 'Abuse' room.

This is a much clearer post than your original. Your original post makes it look as if you're comparing the three occupations.

doublem23
10-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Actually, my point is, if a single beer has virtually no effect, (as has been maintained within this thread) why would one be uneasy if their surgeon or pilot had a 'pop'? Are we arguing over whether a single beer has an effect, or the relative importances of surgery and baseball? Or have I stumbled into the 'Abuse' room.

It's kind of a combination of those. Since baseball itself is not a life-or-death affair, if a guy feels like he needs a beer to help him calm down and relax, then it's really no one's place on this board to authoritatively state that such behavior has, and I believe I'm quoting some dissenting opinions here, "no place in athletics whatsoever."

I would also like to point out that I would not be uneasy if my surgeon or pilot had a single drink before doing their job.

doublem23
10-14-2011, 03:32 PM
I've asked this a few times, and I'm not surprised I haven't gotten a response. Why is it OK that MLB bans legal over the counter stimulants? And I don't want to hear that stimulants are a competitive advantage. If alcohol 'takes the edge off', isn't that a competitive advantage? Regardless, alcohol use by players should be banned during all MLB games.

Well I would guess that on top of "taking the edge off," alcohol does have its detrimental effects so whatever positives it might provide for a player it has negative reactions as well.

Plus a lot of it is just tradition. Back in the day, baseball players drank a **** ton. Just in general, the American population used to drink a hell of a lot more than we do today. So, like so many other things we do in this modern age that don't necessarily make sense, it's just a tradition.

Harry Chappas
10-14-2011, 03:56 PM
With some of the romanticizing of the wondrous effects of alcohol I'm beginning to wonder if some of you don't have some...issues!

I don't feel that strongly about it. I doubt it's a widespread problem nor do I think it in any way explains the team's lack of success. That said, given the scientific facts versus the wholly subjective claims that alcohol "takes the edge off," my preference would be the players imbibe after games or at least when there's a 99.9% chance they won't play.

BTW - this thread is much more fun than the "Konerko as player/manager" thread. I love the anecdotes about being better - or thinking your better - at darts and golf when you've had a few drinks because that's an apples to apples comparison if there ever was one!

Lastly, I'm 200 lbs. of Scottish muscle (more or less) and I can definitely "feel" the effects of a beer. It's the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th beers that kind of blend in with the scenery. Carry on.

Dibbs
10-14-2011, 04:38 PM
Well I would guess that on top of "taking the edge off," alcohol does have its detrimental effects so whatever positives it might provide for a player it has negative reactions as well.

Plus a lot of it is just tradition. Back in the day, baseball players drank a **** ton. Just in general, the American population used to drink a hell of a lot more than we do today. So, like so many other things we do in this modern age that don't necessarily make sense, it's just a tradition.

OK, so now A.J. drank alcohol due to the grand tradition of alcohol consumption during major league baseball? It is time for me to bow out now that I have made all the points I need to. This thread is crazy.

doublem23
10-14-2011, 07:31 PM
OK, so now A.J. drank alcohol due to the grand tradition of alcohol consumption during major league baseball? It is time for me to bow out now that I have made all the points I need to. This thread is crazy.

You've made 0 points, you're irrefutable "STEROIDS AREN'T ALLOWED, ALCOHOL IS JUST AS BAD BLAAAAAAAAAAA" point was silly. You asked why alcohol is permitted around Major League clubhouses and why steroids are banned, as if that wasn't a stupid question. I answered you. I'll be taking that point, okaythanksforplaying.

Brian26
10-14-2011, 08:26 PM
I would also like to point out that I would not be uneasy if my surgeon or pilot had a single drink before doing their job.

I think I'd be extremely uncomfortable with my surgeon taking a drink before performing surgery...not so much because of the effects of the alcohol (although that would be a concern), but moreso because of the lack of confidence he presumably would have in himself that he'd need a single drink to "calm his nerves". Sounds like someone with a serious alcohol problem.

Johnny Mostil
10-14-2011, 09:07 PM
I think I'd be extremely uncomfortable with my surgeon taking a drink before performing surgery

Yeah, me too. And I'm guessing a surgeon or a pilot admitting to a few sips of a "rally beer" before starting or even finishing the job wouldn't have a license for long. (Not that it means much for the original topic . . .)

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 10:13 PM
Yeah, me too. And I'm guessing a surgeon or a pilot admitting to a few sips of a "rally beer" before starting or even finishing the job wouldn't have a license for long. (Not that it means much for the original topic . . .)

Pilots cannot have consumed any alcohol at all 24-hours prior to taking off I believe.

Falstaff
10-14-2011, 10:48 PM
Ok a few more irons in this fire. Consider:

1970's who was that guy Doc Medich??? Doc Ellis?? Doc Marten??? Threw a no hitter while
blasted on LSD. Makes you wonder. Has anyone ever hit a home run
while ripped on acid? Would like to consider that anecdotal truth.

Also, anyone consider maybe AJ being shrewd and trolling for a beer endorsement deal a la Harry Caray or something to ease the segue from
player to broadcast.

Johnny Mostil
10-14-2011, 10:57 PM
Pilots cannot have consumed any alcohol at all 24-hours prior to taking off I believe.

Eight hours in FAA (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=3fc67619c41837737b795d35de0ad6d6&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.1.4.9&idno=14) regulations, though some airlines have longer requirements.

Lip Man 1
10-14-2011, 11:02 PM
Doc Ellis has made that claim, of course it's impossible to prove one way or the other, especially now since he has died.

Jim Bouton wrote in his book "Ball Four", that Mickey Mantle one time, pinch hit a game winning home run while hungover.

I find it hard to believe that anybody even Superman could hit a 95 mile an hour fastball while tripping out on LSD or drunk out of his mind.

Lip

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 11:07 PM
Ok a few more irons in this fire. Consider:

1970's who was that guy Doc Medich??? Doc Ellis?? Doc Marten??? Threw a no hitter while
blasted on LSD. Makes you wonder. Has anyone ever hit a home run
while ripped on acid? Would like to consider that anecdotal truth.

Also, anyone consider maybe AJ being shrewd and trolling for a beer endorsement deal a la Harry Caray or something to ease the segue from
player to broadcast.


:AJ:

"When it's the bottom of the 15th inning and closing in on 1:00 AM
and the other team just brought in a starter because their bullpen's toast
you know it's gonna be a long one. Considering most nights by that time
I'm normally 10 beers into a case I figure it's okay to have a rally beer.
That's when I grab a Miller Lite. Because real men don't need to be sober
to hit a game winning homer off a major league pitcher and real men would
never order a light beer with less taste.

(turns to the left and shouts to someone off camera)

FLOWERS! Get me another Miller Lite you punk ass rookie!"

(someone off camera hands AJ a beer and an unseen person's voice says)

"Robin is looking for you AJ said he wanted to ask you something about this pitcher."

:AJ:

(rolls his eyes and pops the beer open)

"Yeah yeah yeah... tell 'coach' I'll be there in a minute.

(he looks directly into the camera and smiles)

Miller Lite... because it's damned late and the drinking shoulda started hours ago..."

ChiSoxGal85
10-14-2011, 11:32 PM
:rolling: thanks for the laugh, Voodoo!!!

DSpivack
10-14-2011, 11:47 PM
:AJ:

"When it's the bottom of the 15th inning and closing in on 1:00 AM
and the other team just brought in a starter because their bullpen's toast
you know it's gonna be a long one. Considering most nights by that time
I'm normally 10 beers into a case I figure it's okay to have a rally beer.
That's when I grab a Miller Lite. Because real men don't need to be sober
to hit a game winning homer off a major league pitcher and real men would
never order a light beer with less taste.

(turns to the left and shouts to someone off camera)

FLOWERS! Get me another Miller Lite you punk ass rookie!"

(someone off camera hands AJ a beer and an unseen person's voice says)

"Robin is looking for you AJ said he wanted to ask you something about this pitcher."

:AJ:

(rolls his eyes and pops the beer open)

"Yeah yeah yeah... tell 'coach' I'll be there in a minute.

(he looks directly into the camera and smiles)

Miller Lite... because it's damned late and the drinking shoulda started hours ago..."

Well done.

Now, I want to hear KingXerxes on AJ being player-manager.

doublem23
10-15-2011, 12:41 PM
I think I'd be extremely uncomfortable with my surgeon taking a drink before performing surgery...not so much because of the effects of the alcohol (although that would be a concern), but moreso because of the lack of confidence he presumably would have in himself that he'd need a single drink to "calm his nerves". Sounds like someone with a serious alcohol problem.

Meh, I guess we run with different crowds, I know plenty of guys fully capable of enjoying a drink without going completely overboard.

:shrug:

guillensdisciple
10-15-2011, 01:08 PM
I believe, and this is without teal, that people would be fine with beer at a workplace. This goes everywhere not just at a ballgame. If you're smart about it you'll be fine if you're an idiot you'll be fired. Work is about performance, and either way you'll always weed out the idiots. So, why not give people the right to have a cold one if they want one unless they have zero tolerance. If that is the case then why the hell are they drinking in the first place?

October26
10-15-2011, 02:20 PM
:AJ:

"When it's the bottom of the 15th inning and closing in on 1:00 AM
and the other team just brought in a starter because their bullpen's toast
you know it's gonna be a long one. Considering most nights by that time
I'm normally 10 beers into a case I figure it's okay to have a rally beer.
That's when I grab a Miller Lite. Because real men don't need to be sober
to hit a game winning homer off a major league pitcher and real men would
never order a light beer with less taste.

(turns to the left and shouts to someone off camera)

FLOWERS! Get me another Miller Lite you punk ass rookie!"

(someone off camera hands AJ a beer and an unseen person's voice says)

"Robin is looking for you AJ said he wanted to ask you something about this pitcher."

:AJ:

(rolls his eyes and pops the beer open)

"Yeah yeah yeah... tell 'coach' I'll be there in a minute.

(he looks directly into the camera and smiles)

Miller Lite... because it's damned late and the drinking shoulda started hours ago..."

Thanks for making me laugh, Voodoo! :rolling: I can actually envision AJ saying the line in bold above. :tongue: I don't have any commentary about the rest of this thread, but your post just made my day. Enjoy your weekend!

TheVulture
10-15-2011, 04:15 PM
What do you guys think was being poured over all the players that won the World Series? Grape Juice!?!?



I'd hope not. That would certainly stain.

dickallen15
10-16-2011, 02:16 PM
Mark Buerhle sucked back a beer before he picked up a save in WS game 3. He had no idea he'd be used. Maybe one relaxes you a bit.

Falstaff
10-18-2011, 12:25 AM
Mark Buerhle sucked back a beer before he picked up a save in WS game 3. He had no idea he'd be used. Maybe one relaxes you a bit.
Ya that is quite a parallel to the Dock Ellis tripping no-hitter story. Apparently he was not originally scheduled to start that day, and gobbled some LSD, (planned to sit with teammates in dugout and enjoy the game I guess, it was the 1970s!) But then, post-dose, skipper announced change in rotation and Dock Ellis would in fact be pitching that day. A no-hitter.

Fenway
10-20-2011, 07:22 PM
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Graphic/2011/10/20/102011_beer__1319092890_1239.gif

VA_GoGoSox
10-21-2011, 01:26 PM
image




Pretty funny that the Brewers are on the "no beer" list. Fear the Beer, indeed. :gulp:

voodoochile
10-21-2011, 02:18 PM
Pretty funny that the Brewers are on the "no beer" list. Fear the Beer, indeed. :gulp:

The Cardinals were the one team that stuck out for me.

Dibbs
10-21-2011, 02:53 PM
image

But I thought it was a timeless tradition, and everyone is doing it during games?

WhiteSox5187
10-21-2011, 02:54 PM
The Cardinals were the one team that stuck out for me.

The Cardinals banned alcohol a couple of years ago (I want to say 2007) when they had a pitcher die in a car accident after he left a bar. He was drunk and I think also he was also found to have a lot of drugs in his system as well.