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Lip Man 1
10-11-2011, 05:26 PM
My initial impression when reading Kenny's comments was that he was basically telling Sox fans, (paraphrasing) 'look you can have a high payroll major league team or you can have a good minor league system but you can't have both, we don't have the resources to do both...'

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-williams-market-will-dictate-buehrles-destiny-20111011,0,2926359.story

Lip

Goose
10-11-2011, 07:52 PM
50 cents

DirtySox
10-11-2011, 07:55 PM
'look you can have a high payroll major league team or you can have a good minor league system but you can't have both, we don't have the resources to do both...'

Hogwash. An extra 3 million in the draft each year could do wonders. This either/or dichotomy with the farm versus the major league club is nonsense.

SoxSpeed22
10-11-2011, 08:01 PM
There are plenty of others here, besides me, who are fine with the major league payroll going down, as long as that extra money goes into drafting and scouting.

Daver
10-11-2011, 08:03 PM
Hogwash. An extra 3 million in the draft each year could do wonders. This either/or dichotomy with the farm versus the major league club is nonsense.

Not necessarily, spending 3 million on players that aren't worth that is 3 million wasted, they have to spend the money to improve and expand on the scouting before you can make that statement.

DirtySox
10-11-2011, 08:06 PM
Not necessarily, spending 3 million on players that aren't worth that is 3 million wasted, they have to spend the money to improve and expand on the scouting before you can make that statement.

Right. It would be mighty nice if the Sox fixed those aforementioned deficiencies as well. Bonus expenditures are just easy to nitpick with the data readily available to us. The idea that a team can either have a good major league club or a good farm system is baloney. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Domeshot17
10-11-2011, 08:19 PM
Have to love Kenny making excuses before the off season even begins.

SI1020
10-11-2011, 08:41 PM
This gets more depressing by the day. Do they even know what they want to do, let alone how to do it?

Hitmen77
10-11-2011, 08:45 PM
Have to love Kenny making excuses before the off season even begins.

This gets more depressing by the day. Do they even know what they want to do, let alone how to do it?

Agreed. That's a ridiculous statement from a team in the 3rd largest market in MLB.

:shakehead: :angry:

DickAllen72
10-11-2011, 09:14 PM
Agreed. That's a ridiculous statement from a team in the 3rd largest market in MLB.

:shakehead: :angry:
Which statement?

DumpJerry
10-11-2011, 09:46 PM
I think people are over reacting to a non-statement from Kenny.

I know, I know....."Welcome to WSI."

Corlose 15
10-12-2011, 08:19 AM
I'm not sure where Lip is paraphrasing that from but it's not the general theme I got from that article.

doublem23
10-12-2011, 08:24 AM
I'm not sure where Lip is paraphrasing that from but it's not the general theme I got from that article.

Yeah, did anyone else bother to read the linked article?

asindc
10-12-2011, 08:59 AM
Yeah, did anyone else bother to read the linked article?

My guess is that at least 60% of posters to threads like this don't bother to read the article before posting. It is reflected in some of the posts here.

spawn
10-12-2011, 09:16 AM
I'm not sure where Lip is paraphrasing that from but it's not the general theme I got from that article.

Yeah, did anyone else bother to read the linked article?

No kidding. I was about to post the same thing. KW doesn't talk about the Minor League situation...at all.

russ99
10-12-2011, 10:40 AM
The only issue about investing in the minor league system is that it usually takes 3-4 years when you start investing more until you see results on the big league club.

And as the Astros (in year 2-2.5 of that waiting period) found out this year, sometimes those players aren't what you think when they make it to the big leagues. A number of their prospects either weren't ready or will never be.

voodoochile
10-12-2011, 10:56 AM
This gets more depressing by the day. Do they even know what they want to do, let alone how to do it?

Under...

The...

Radar...

:KW:
"I'm just playing dead. You'll all love me again a few Wednesday's from now..."

Lip Man 1
10-12-2011, 11:28 AM
Folks:

I read the link and that was my impression. If I'm wrong so be it.

Lip

JB98
10-12-2011, 12:43 PM
I don't like the reactive approach to the Buehrle situation -- waiting to see what the market is, whether he fits in the budget, blah, blah, blah.

Well, do you want the guy here or not? If so, the Sox should make an offer and try to establish the market themselves.

If they are thinking the market is going to dry up for Buehrle and they're going to be able to get him back for pennies on the dollar, I think they are mistaken.

WhiteSox5187
10-12-2011, 12:59 PM
I don't like the reactive approach to the Buehrle situation -- waiting to see what the market is, whether he fits in the budget, blah, blah, blah.

Well, do you want the guy here or not? If so, the Sox should make an offer and try to establish the market themselves.

If they are thinking the market is going to dry up for Buehrle and they're going to be able to get him back for pennies on the dollar, I think they are mistaken.

:KW

"Can't spend a dollar when you've already spent 43 million on Adam Dunn, Alex Rios and Jake Peavy!"

johnnyg83
10-12-2011, 01:10 PM
I don't like the reactive approach to the Buehrle situation -- waiting to see what the market is, whether he fits in the budget, blah, blah, blah.

Well, do you want the guy here or not? If so, the Sox should make an offer and try to establish the market themselves.

If they are thinking the market is going to dry up for Buehrle and they're going to be able to get him back for pennies on the dollar, I think they are mistaken.

IIRC, the market for FA pitching is super thin. I think I heard Edwin Jackson is at the top of the list. And the Yankees and the RedSox are buyers and might be willing to spend $$$ for MB. So there won't be any market drying up for a 200 IP+, 10+ wins vet ... even if he doesn't get all the years, he'll get the cash.

DirtySox
10-12-2011, 01:14 PM
IIRC, the market for FA pitching is super thin. I think I heard Edwin Jackson is at the top of the list. And the Yankees and the RedSox are buyers and might be willing to spend $$$ for MB. So there won't be any market drying up for a 200 IP+, 10+ wins vet ... even if he doesn't get all the years, he'll get the cash.

CC, CJ Wilson, and Mark are the top LHP available this offseason. Though one would expect CC to re-up with the Yanks.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-13-2011, 08:45 PM
IIRC, the market for FA pitching is super thin. I think I heard Edwin Jackson is at the top of the list. And the Yankees and the RedSox are buyers and might be willing to spend $$$ for MB. So there won't be any market drying up for a 200 IP+, 10+ wins vet ... even if he doesn't get all the years, he'll get the cash.

If Nolan Ryan loves innings eaters as has been reported, and CC is not available, he might go for Buehrle.

Lip Man 1
10-13-2011, 08:58 PM
ESPN.com reporting tonight that if CC used his "out" clause the Rangers are going to go hard after him.

Lip

Fenway
10-13-2011, 09:13 PM
I have been told the White Sox are in the Top 10 in development spending and they pay their scouts well.


Serious question - where exactly is the White Sox minor league headquarters?

The Twins use Ft. Myers, The Tigers Lakeland for example.

I can not think of ANY other MLB team that doesn't have at least one minor league team fairly close to the home market and with the Midwest League there is no valid reason for the White Sox not to.

Mark Shapiro has said that the Indians having so many clubs close to Cleveland makes it easier for him to oversee the system and not just go by reports.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/affiliates/index.jsp?c_id=cle

Tigers system
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/affiliates/index.jsp?c_id=det

Twins
http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/affiliates/index.jsp?c_id=min


Most importantly all of the White Sox division rivals have teams in colder markets.

For a team that plays in Chicago it should be a no brainer to give prospects cold weather at-bats. Show me another cold weather team that does not do that.

LITTLE NELL
10-14-2011, 06:03 AM
Agreed. That's a ridiculous statement from a team in the 3rd largest market in MLB.

:shakehead: :angry:

When you are 20th in attendance in MLB you are a small market team.

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 10:42 AM
When you are 20th in attendance in MLB you are a small market team.

When you have the potential to be top 5 you are not...

kaufsox
10-14-2011, 11:09 AM
When you are 20th in attendance in MLB you are a small market team.

That has more to do with the product on the field and how it is marketed.

kaufsox
10-14-2011, 11:14 AM
I have been told the White Sox are in the Top 10 in development spending and they pay their scouts well.


Serious question - where exactly is the White Sox minor league headquarters?

The Twins use Ft. Myers, The Tigers Lakeland for example.

I can not think of ANY other MLB team that doesn't have at least one minor league team fairly close to the home market and with the Midwest League there is no valid reason for the White Sox not to.

Mark Shapiro has said that the Indians having so many clubs close to Cleveland makes it easier for him to oversee the system and not just go by reports.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/affiliates/index.jsp?c_id=cle

Tigers system
http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/affiliates/index.jsp?c_id=det

Twins
http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/mlb/minorleagues/affiliates/index.jsp?c_id=min


Most importantly all of the White Sox division rivals have teams in colder markets.

For a team that plays in Chicago it should be a no brainer to give prospects cold weather at-bats. Show me another cold weather team that does not do that.

Along these lines, is there any reason the White Sox have resisted the movement of many teams to bring their minor league affiliates closer to the home city?

skobabe8
10-14-2011, 11:52 AM
Indianapolis sounds like a good AAA destination to me.

Daver
10-14-2011, 11:55 AM
Along these lines, is there any reason the White Sox have resisted the movement of many teams to bring their minor league affiliates closer to the home city?

They save money on travel expenses by having the majority of their affiliates in one general geographic area.

LITTLE NELL
10-14-2011, 12:14 PM
Indianapolis sounds like a good AAA destination to me.

It was our AAA team from 1962-1967.
We should also go back to South Bend for our A team.
Nothing really close in the AA leagues so Birmingham is as good as any.

Fenway
10-14-2011, 12:17 PM
They save money on travel expenses by having the majority of their affiliates in one general geographic area.

Getting prospects cold weather at-bats should take priority.

AAA should be Indianapolis - Charlotte does little to market the White Sox brand.


Instead of Kannapolis try to get a team in the Midwest League. A real bold move would be Gary or Joliet. Simply allow the Cubs to do the same in the northern burbs.

It would make the White Sox brand stronger and more than offset any increase costs in travel...and the prospects get a taste of April and May weather in the Midwest.

doublem23
10-14-2011, 12:21 PM
Along these lines, is there any reason the White Sox have resisted the movement of many teams to bring their minor league affiliates closer to the home city?

Supposedly they like keeping them together so that it's easier on scouts.

DonnieDarko
10-14-2011, 01:32 PM
Getting prospects cold weather at-bats should take priority.

AAA should be Indianapolis - Charlotte does little to market the White Sox brand.


Instead of Kannapolis try to get a team in the Midwest League. A real bold move would be Gary or Joliet. Simply allow the Cubs to do the same in the northern burbs.

It would make the White Sox brand stronger and more than offset any increase costs in travel...and the prospects get a taste of April and May weather in the Midwest.

Stop making so much sense! It might infect the rest of the board!

>_>

<_<

MisterB
10-14-2011, 04:06 PM
When you have the potential to be top 5 you are not...

The Cell is in the bottom third of the majors in seating capacity. Going by recent attendance figures, if they sold out the entire season they might make 5th.

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 05:39 PM
The Cell is in the bottom third of the majors in seating capacity. Going by recent attendance figures, if they sold out the entire season they might make 5th.

So we agree... Cool...:D:

Actually you have a valid point. After looking at the numbers the Sox max out around 3.25M which would put them 4th last year. I admit I didn't consider park size limitation in my analysis. However if we use 2006 as their max capacity (since it is their all time record) and based on that say 2.9M is their expected ceiling then the Sox would be just fine in terms of money intake and while they wouldn't be top 5 (as I erroneously stated) they would still be among the better teams in terms of attendance.

Last year 12 teams drew 2.9M or more fans. That's pretty much the cutoff. After that one team drew 2.6M and everyone else was under 2.4M. Above 2.9M there is pretty much a log jam with 9 teams drawing between 2.9 and 3.2M then the elites are 3.4 and two at 3.7 and all those teams are coming off big years and had big expectations.

So again, while they would be very hard pressed to make top 5 they certainly could be one of the better teams in MLB and in fine financial shape if they can get the fans to buy season tickets at a good rate and draw interest during the season.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/sort/homeTotal

doublem23
10-14-2011, 07:33 PM
When you are 20th in attendance in MLB you are a small market team.

It's not about butts in seats, its about how much those people paid to sit in that seat. Better to be a team that draws 20,000 at $40 per ticket than a team that draws 30,000 at $20 a ticket.

Frater Perdurabo
10-14-2011, 07:36 PM
It's not about butts in seats, its about how much those people paid to sit in that seat. Better to be a team that draws 20,000 at $40 per ticket than a team that draws 30,000 at $20 a ticket.

Yes, but you also want to try to get the attendance as high as possible, to increase parking, merchandise and concession revenues.

doublem23
10-14-2011, 07:38 PM
Yes, but you also want to try to get the attendance as high as possible, to increase parking, merchandise and concession revenues.

Oh well then you should email the guys in the Sox front office who hold advanced business degrees and explain that to them. I'm sure they need a lecture on basic economics.

EDIT - Anyways, my counter to that would be that concessions aren't all profit, you have to pay for staff, supplies, energy, etc. Parking is no big deal, the Sox own the lots around the park so that's just free money. My point being, from a business perspective, I'm sure you're better off securing as much of the cash in a guaranteed fashion as possible. If you make tickets $40 then you've got $40 from every person that walks in. If you lower them to $20, there's not even a guarantee that your fans will spend the extra $20 and even if they do, they're spending it on stuff that isn't 100% profit. I would be stunned if a cost analysis study didn't show that higher ticket prices and some lost concession/parking revenue are better for the bottom line than trusting people to respend what they save on a lower ticket price at the park.

Also you gotta remember that the Sox have a sweetheart deal with the state and they don't pay any rent for U.S. Cellular Field as long as attendance stays below a certain point.

cheezheadsoxfan
10-14-2011, 07:50 PM
Getting prospects cold weather at-bats should take priority.

AAA should be Indianapolis - Charlotte does little to market the White Sox brand.


Instead of Kannapolis try to get a team in the Midwest League. A real bold move would be Gary or Joliet. Simply allow the Cubs to do the same in the northern burbs.

It would make the White Sox brand stronger and more than offset any increase costs in travel...and the prospects get a taste of April and May weather in the Midwest.

Yup. In that part of the south, baseball is just something to do until college football kicks in.

voodoochile
10-14-2011, 10:17 PM
It's not about butts in seats, its about how much those people paid to sit in that seat. Better to be a team that draws 20,000 at $40 per ticket than a team that draws 30,000 at $20 a ticket.

Oh well then you should email the guys in the Sox front office who hold advanced business degrees and explain that to them. I'm sure they need a lecture on basic economics.

EDIT - Anyways, my counter to that would be that concessions aren't all profit, you have to pay for staff, supplies, energy, etc. Parking is no big deal, the Sox own the lots around the park so that's just free money. My point being, from a business perspective, I'm sure you're better off securing as much of the cash in a guaranteed fashion as possible. If you make tickets $40 then you've got $40 from every person that walks in. If you lower them to $20, there's not even a guarantee that your fans will spend the extra $20 and even if they do, they're spending it on stuff that isn't 100% profit. I would be stunned if a cost analysis study didn't show that higher ticket prices and some lost concession/parking revenue are better for the bottom line than trusting people to respend what they save on a lower ticket price at the park.

Also you gotta remember that the Sox have a sweetheart deal with the state and they don't pay any rent for U.S. Cellular Field as long as attendance stays below a certain point.

Basic economics also dictates that the more ticket you sell the higher your prices can be. High demand means higher prices. So a team that regularly draws 30K a season is more likely in the long run to have higher prices than the one that draws 20K a season.

The rent is really not a major factor in the equation either and I think the threshold is 1.5 or 2M fans before they start paying.

Lip Man 1
10-14-2011, 10:40 PM
Voodoo:

The last info I had placed the limit to start paying at 1.9 million fans.

Lip

doublem23
10-15-2011, 09:18 AM
Basic economics also dictates that the more ticket you sell the higher your prices can be. High demand means higher prices. So a team that regularly draws 30K a season is more likely in the long run to have higher prices than the one that draws 20K a season.

Well, again, I'm sure the guys working in the Sox front office with advanced business degrees understand this concept and would have altered ticket pricing accordingly if it were that big of a concern.

The overall point being, if you're only judging a team's attendance based on the number of people through the turnstyles, you're missing a pretty important half of the equation.

SI1020
10-15-2011, 09:41 AM
Yup. In that part of the south, baseball is just something to do until college football kicks in. I live down here and you are so right.

Fenway
10-15-2011, 10:13 AM
Yup. In that part of the south, baseball is just something to do until college football kicks in.

Boston has 2 teams in the Southeast (Greenville,SC and Salem, VA) and the year yound complex in Ft. Myers.

But at AA their prospects really get cold weather in Portland, Maine and Pawtucket is the same as Boston. The scouts I have talked to think it is important to have cold weather games.

voodoochile
10-15-2011, 10:55 AM
Well, again, I'm sure the guys working in the Sox front office with advanced business degrees understand this concept and would have altered ticket pricing accordingly if it were that big of a concern.

The overall point being, if you're only judging a team's attendance based on the number of people through the turnstyles, you're missing a pretty important half of the equation.

This is why you are seeing things like dynamic pricing and premium games. The team altars pricing based on demand for a given game. Closer to sellout the higher the price and if a game is deemed a hot ticket before the season starts they charge higher prices. This not only encourages people to buy early and allows the team to maximize revenue but actually pushes consumers toward buying package deals before the season starts because it will save them money in the long run if they are going to go to a bunch of games anyway.

However, an unsold seat is lost forever. Tickets have a shelf life that ends about 3 innings into most games. You are ALWAYS better off selling a ticket cheaper than list than you are allowing the ticket to go unsold. It's completely worthless tomorrow and if you make an extra $5 today from selling a seat after the game starts maybe you also make another $5 profit on the $15-20 the person spends inside the park or even more given the mark up on ball park food which is obviously much higher than your average restaurant.

doublem23
10-15-2011, 11:00 AM
This is why you are seeing things like dynamic pricing and premium games. The team altars pricing based on demand for a given game. Closer to sellout the higher the price and if a game is deemed a hot ticket before the season starts they charge higher prices. This not only encourages people to buy early and allows the team to maximize revenue but actually pushes consumers toward buying package deals before the season starts because it will save them money in the long run if they are going to go to a bunch of games anyway.

However, an unsold seat is lost forever. Tickets have a shelf life that ends about 3 innings into most games. You are ALWAYS better off selling a ticket cheaper than list than you are allowing the ticket to go unsold. It's completely worthless tomorrow and if you make an extra $5 today from selling a seat after the game starts maybe you also make another $5 profit on the $15-20 the person spends inside the park or even more given the mark up on ball park food which is obviously much higher than your average restaurant.

All very good points, however I'd say in response to your second that even though it seems like a great idea to just unload all unsold tickets for extreme discounts (and believe me, I would looooooooooooooove it), from the Sox's standpoint that hurts the value of their product in the long-run. What incentive would I have to buy tickets a day early, or to consider a season-ticket plan, if I know I can walk up to the gate 10 minutes after 1st pitch and pocket a ticket for 1/2 the price?

voodoochile
10-15-2011, 11:23 AM
All very good points, however I'd say in response to your second that even though it seems like a great idea to just unload all unsold tickets for extreme discounts (and believe me, I would looooooooooooooove it), from the Sox's standpoint that hurts the value of their product in the long-run. What incentive would I have to buy tickets a day early, or to consider a season-ticket plan, if I know I can walk up to the gate 10 minutes after 1st pitch and pocket a ticket for 1/2 the price?

Yes that's very true you also might piss off the season ticket base if you consistently sell tickets for less than face value and that can have repercussions. Obviously there's a limit to how low you can go to walk that fine line. Mostly dynamic pricing should be used to increase the price of last minute tickets when demand is high, not go low when demand is low. In addition if you sell low enough to cause last minute rushes you may end up understaffed at service and security positions and that can cause more problems and lead to more ill will.

In addition there's almost always people standing in line after the game starts, so you would have to set a cutoff later than first pitch (as in your example) because you'd just end up losing money to people already standing in line suddenly get lower prices. Maybe after the third inning all UD tickets 1/2 price or something would work but again, you don't want to encounter the other problems from selling cheap tickets as you will end up losing a bunch of the folks willing to shell out for season tickets and premium prices for the aforementioned reasons.

kaufsox
10-17-2011, 10:28 AM
Boston has 2 teams in the Southeast (Greenville,SC and Salem, VA) and the year yound complex in Ft. Myers.

But at AA their prospects really get cold weather in Portland, Maine and Pawtucket is the same as Boston. The scouts I have talked to think it is important to have cold weather games.

That's kind of my belief too. Bring the minor teams closer to Chicago, all of them, and the cost and time for scouts is just shifted northward. Also, I would love to be only an hour or two drive from a couple of Sox minor teams as opposed to hundreds,if not a thousand miles away.

TheVulture
10-17-2011, 10:32 PM
When you are 20th in attendance in MLB you are a small market team.

You also have to consider viewership, radio, merchandising, etc... the Sox have the potential to be near the top in attendance as past seasons have shown. Sox fans vote with their wallets...thank god, else we be in a hopeless scenario such as the Cubs.

Tragg
10-18-2011, 06:23 PM
However, an unsold seat is lost forever. Tickets have a shelf life that ends about 3 innings into most games. You are ALWAYS better off selling a ticket cheaper than list than you are allowing the ticket to go unsold.
IN the short-term, that's true.
In the long term, that diminishes the value of your product. People will realize they can get the tickets cheap late, and will buy fewer and fewer at the higher prices that are available early.

ChiSoxGal85
10-18-2011, 06:44 PM
That's kind of my belief too. Bring the minor teams closer to Chicago, all of them, and the cost and time for scouts is just shifted northward. Also, I would love to be only an hour or two drive from a couple of Sox minor teams as opposed to hundreds,if not a thousand miles away.
I would love to go to Sox minor league games around here. Wish they would do that. Of course, I'd really like the Sox to sign a contract with the Kane County Cougars...but they just contracted with the Royals last year.

doublem23
10-18-2011, 09:17 PM
I would love to go to Sox minor league games around here. Wish they would do that. Of course, I'd really like the Sox to sign a contract with the Kane County Cougars...but they just contracted with the Royals last year.

The Cougars have said they don't want to partner with either the Sox or the Cubs since they feel it would essentially disenfranchise 1/2 their potential fanbase. Best we can hope for is the Sox affiliate with another Midwest League team and you can at least check them out when they visit Kane County.

Lundind1
10-18-2011, 10:15 PM
IN the short-term, that's true.
In the long term, that diminishes the value of your product. People will realize they can get the tickets cheap late, and will buy fewer and fewer at the higher prices that are available early.

Or you just go back to a lower price, sell out a ton more games and make the food commission money also from DNC and Levy.

Diminishing the value of your product only applies when you have already sold an item with those same intrinsic qualities, say the roster that year or amenities.

If they did, and yes from a business standpoint they should, scrap the dynamic pricing, it should be accompanied by a sizable decrease in ticket and parking pricing. Think about how many more people will go to games, especially when it is a much better value. I understand that there is a point of diminishing returns, where the lower price will not actually help demand, but something has to be done about how out of touch the pricing is with the market and the fan.

voodoochile
10-18-2011, 11:07 PM
IN the short-term, that's true.
In the long term, that diminishes the value of your product. People will realize they can get the tickets cheap late, and will buy fewer and fewer at the higher prices that are available early.

Yes, as I said in future posts, you have to be very selective about how to use it for a variety of reasons.

Daver
10-18-2011, 11:33 PM
Getting prospects cold weather at-bats should take priority.


I really don't give a rat's ass about cold weather at bats, moving teams to prepare players for conditions they might have for a month of a season is pretty low on the priority list, whereas having roving instructors that work at all levels available at short notice is a much higher priority. A player that knows his hands will sting after contact while holding a bat but still can't play a corner rebound in the outfield isn't a better player.

kaufsox
10-19-2011, 10:45 AM
I really don't give a rat's ass about cold weather at bats, moving teams to prepare players for conditions they might have for a month of a season is pretty low on the priority list, whereas having roving instructors that work at all levels available at short notice is a much higher priority. A player that knows his hands will sting after contact while holding a bat but still can't play a corner rebound in the outfield isn't a better player.

Sure, but can't they rove to locations closer to Chicago just as easily as throughout the south? I just wonder why the Sox haven't followed the trend of other teams moving a fair amount of teams closer to their base.

mahagga73
10-20-2011, 10:59 PM
Why not put the A team in Normal,the AA team in South Bend,and the AAA team in Indy(Pirates have it now).Normal already has a pretty nice lower minor league park right on 55 North.

mahagga73
10-20-2011, 11:09 PM
Sure, but can't they rove to locations closer to Chicago just as easily as throughout the south? I just wonder why the Sox haven't followed the trend of other teams moving a fair amount of teams closer to their base.
The Sox have never put any emphasis on marketing outside the Chicago area so this would be out of character.It's almost like they cede the rest of the state to the cubs and cardinals.All 162 games are on TV though so I can't complain.Anyway,it's sad that the Sox are the closest team to my area yet most people are fans of the aforementioned 2 teams.There are a good number of fans for the Sox downstate despite that.I can almost guarantee I am one of only a few people in central illinois that attend 5 plus games a year though.

doublem23
10-21-2011, 12:21 AM
Why not put the A team in Normal,the AA team in South Bend,and the AAA team in Indy(Pirates have it now).Normal already has a pretty nice lower minor league park right on 55 North.

The AA team in your scenario would be a problem since there isn't a current AA league that really extends into the Midwest. I guess that the Eastern League could theoretically accommodate them but that'd be an awful lot of travel especially if these teams don't fly (I don't know if AA teams fly or bus or whatever).

It would be nice if the Sox could get an affiliate in the A-ball Midwest League. Would definitely trek out to Kane County for a game every now and then and would probably make an annual pilgrimage to whatever town they were located in to catch a weekend's worth of games. That would be fun. I wonder if Indianapolis would even want to affiliate with the Sox. Obviously this map is not scientific at all (http://www.commoncensus.org/maps/mlb_1280.gif), but you can see the Cubs area spreads deep into Indiana, at either rate, they may want to avoid either Chicago team (like the Cougars avoid them, as well), to stay neutral on the issue... No sense in pissing off a chunk of your potential customers over something like that.

At any rate, it'd be nice if there were more affiliated minor league teams around the Chicago area. I know we have plenty of Frontier and Northern and whatever league the Thunderbolts are in teams but they really, really, really suck. When I lived just down the road in Peoria, we at least had the Chiefs, the Cardinals and now Cubs A-ball team. The quality of play just in A ball is noticeably better than the independent leagues.

mahagga73
10-21-2011, 11:39 AM
The AA team in your scenario would be a problem since there isn't a current AA league that really extends into the Midwest. I guess that the Eastern League could theoretically accommodate them but that'd be an awful lot of travel especially if these teams don't fly (I don't know if AA teams fly or bus or whatever).

It would be nice if the Sox could get an affiliate in the A-ball Midwest League. Would definitely trek out to Kane County for a game every now and then and would probably make an annual pilgrimage to whatever town they were located in to catch a weekend's worth of games. That would be fun. I wonder if Indianapolis would even want to affiliate with the Sox. Obviously this map is not scientific at all (http://www.commoncensus.org/maps/mlb_1280.gif), but you can see the Cubs area spreads deep into Indiana, at either rate, they may want to avoid either Chicago team (like the Cougars avoid them, as well), to stay neutral on the issue... No sense in pissing off a chunk of your potential customers over something like that.

At any rate, it'd be nice if there were more affiliated minor league teams around the Chicago area. I know we have plenty of Frontier and Northern and whatever league the Thunderbolts are in teams but they really, really, really suck. When I lived just down the road in Peoria, we at least had the Chiefs, the Cardinals and now Cubs A-ball team. The quality of play just in A ball is noticeably better than the independent leagues.
Indianapolis is predominately a Red's town.They were the Sox affiliate for awhile in the 60's before I think.It's been the Expo's and now the Pirates.Victory Field has been rated the best minor league park in the nation many times.