PDA

View Full Version : Two Good Columns...


Lip Man 1
10-08-2011, 11:05 AM
On the state of the Sox and a closer look at Kenny. Seem to be to be fair in their evaluations.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/8086051-574/if-robin-ventura-was-kenny-williams-idea-sox-fans-are-in-trouble.html

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/8094684-419/white-sox-franchise-in-rebuilding-phase.html

Lip

StillMissOzzie
10-08-2011, 12:39 PM
Sadly, not much at all to argue with here. Opinions are opinions, but facts are facts. KW is looking like Old Mother Hubbard, and the cupboard is bare. Peavy, Rios, Dunn, PK, AJ, and a lot of youth are what the 2012 Sox are shaping up to be.

SMO
:(:

ZombieRob
10-08-2011, 12:59 PM
I fully expect Konerko to be shopped, if he's willing to waive NTC.

ChicagoG19
10-08-2011, 01:32 PM
I fully expect Konerko to be shopped, if he's willing to waive NTC.

I expect that as well, but I think they will wait until the middle of the season to see if Rios and Dunn can rebound.

Lip Man 1
10-08-2011, 02:06 PM
The only thing I disagree with in these columns is the idea that the Sox have to trade some of their better players for two or three double A prospects.

That doesn't fly with me.

If say the Yankees want Danks they better be willing to pony up a few top triple A prospects or a prospect and a major leaguer.

I liken it to what Roland and Chuck did in the off season before the start of 1971. Trade your marketable players, your good players (Danks, Q, Thornton, Floyd) for a few guys who make you better right now overall.

Like Chuck told me, (papraphrasing) 'Mike Andrews wasn't as good of an infielder as Luis Aparicio but Andrews was better than anybody we had playing that spot before and when you include Luis Alvarado, we were a better team, we were deeper and had better talent.' Ditto for the Ken Berry deal that brought the Sox back Jay Johnstone, Tom Egan and Tom Bradley.

If anybody wants these guys the Sox need to get value back in the here and now, not potentially three years from now. If they are going to go in the direction of a rebuild, then go "all in" with it and deal everybody and take the 100 loss season that follows.

I'm cool with that, just don't go halfway with it.

Lip

SCCWS
10-09-2011, 08:41 AM
The only thing I disagree with in these columns is the idea that the Sox have to trade some of their better players for two or three double A prospects.


If say the Yankees want Danks they better be willing to pony up a few top triple A prospects or a prospect and a major leaguer.


Lip

I think it still comes down to supply and demand. Supposedly the Yankees eye CJ Wilson. If the White Sox can get the Red Sox/Yankees into a bidding war for Danks they may have leverage. But if Wilson goes to NY, Boston is still a viable option but the return will probably be less.

tstrike2000
10-09-2011, 09:09 AM
I know Kenny's not going anywhere right now, but as the article suggests, can we agree with KW's baseball intuition? Robin Ventura is a great guy, he's the anti-Ozzie. While wonderful personality traits, that's not a great reason to hire him as manager. He may do wonderfully or it could bomb, obviously we hope it's not the latter.

Couple that with the fact that we may be possibly trading Konerko, TCQ, Danks or Floyd, and losing Buehrle to free agency just leaves me with a sickening feeling for next year. Just don't know about KW's trade abilities or instincts anymore.

tsoxman
10-09-2011, 06:57 PM
On the state of the Sox and a closer look at Kenny. Seem to be to be fair in their evaluations.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/8086051-574/if-robin-ventura-was-kenny-williams-idea-sox-fans-are-in-trouble.html

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/8094684-419/white-sox-franchise-in-rebuilding-phase.html

Lip
It mystifies me as to why the Chairman did not fire Kenny after last season.

This whole thing started to go downhill when Chris Young was traded after 2005 and the Sox handed Brian Anderson the CF job in 2006. From there. it was a slippery slope of bad deals with a respite coming after the 2007 season when we got Danks, Gio, Gavin and Alexei. But after 2008, the Kenny Stupid Train was rolling once again.

Frater Perdurabo
10-09-2011, 07:34 PM
This whole thing started to go downhill when Chris Young was traded after 2005 and the Sox handed Brian Anderson the CF job in 2006. From there. it was a slippery slope of bad deals with a respite coming after the 2007 season when we got Danks, Gio, Gavin and Alexei. But after 2008, the Kenny Stupid Train was rolling once again.

Excellent post. The Sox might not have a much better record with Young instead of Rios in CF, Sweeney instead of Pierre in a corner OF spot, Gio and Hudson on the staff instead of Peavy, a cheaper and better DH option instead of Dunn, and prospects like Holmberg in the minors. But they would have a lower payroll and therefore more resources to make other acquisitions.

Nellie_Fox
10-09-2011, 11:43 PM
Excellent post. The Sox might not have a much better record with Young instead of Rios in CF, Sweeney instead of Pierre in a corner OF spot, Gio and Hudson on the staff instead of Peavy, a cheaper and better DH option instead of Dunn, and prospects like Holmberg in the minors. But they would have a lower payroll and therefore more resources to make other acquisitions.That's great, knowing what we know now. But if that's what they'd done, people would be screaming about the Sox being cheap.

Frater Perdurabo
10-10-2011, 06:15 AM
That's great, knowing what we know now. But if that's what they'd done, people would be screaming about the Sox being cheap.

You are absolutely right about that, too.

kaufsox
10-10-2011, 09:25 AM
Excellent post. The Sox might not have a much better record with Young instead of Rios in CF, Sweeney instead of Pierre in a corner OF spot, Gio and Hudson on the staff instead of Peavy, a cheaper and better DH option instead of Dunn, and prospects like Holmberg in the minors. But they would have a lower payroll and therefore more resources to make other acquisitions.

I don't think Young to Rios is a direct line. The Sox did get Quentin in that deal and I still don't mind that trade. Also on a number of KW's moves, at the time, they were solid moves that just didn't pan out. The Rios deal and the entire Swisher saga are damning, no doubt.

kaufsox
10-10-2011, 09:31 AM
The only thing I disagree with in these columns is the idea that the Sox have to trade some of their better players for two or three double A prospects.

That doesn't fly with me.

If say the Yankees want Danks they better be willing to pony up a few top triple A prospects or a prospect and a major leaguer.



Lip

I get what you're saying Lip, but I kind of disagree. If I can get some high double A prospects, who almost always are younger than triple A players and if they are highly rated have more of an upside. The more I learn about the minor leagues and how the system works overall, triple A can almost become a kind of limbo; not willing to give up on a guy, but not quite willing to give him an extended shot in MLB. Obviously, not always the case, but the longer a guy is in triple A the more it seems they are, in actuality, the dreaded quad A player.

A. Cavatica
10-10-2011, 01:25 PM
I don't think Young to Rios is a direct line. The Sox did get Quentin in that deal

Check your facts. They got Quentin in a different deal.