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View Full Version : Red Sox owner-That's one of the problems with baseball. It's hard to predict things"


Fenway
10-07-2011, 11:02 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/14857/henry-free-agency-route-hasnt-been-great

This quote from the WEEI interview this morning is telling
"That's one of the problems with baseball. It's hard to predict things. I'll be the first to say that the free agency route over the last few years, over a number of years, hasn't been great. The game is changing. Younger players are having more impact. There are clear statistical studies that the signing of free agents at a certain age, as they've already peaked as far as their play, is counterproductive."


The entire interview can be seen here
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2839170&postcount=84

StillMissOzzie
10-08-2011, 12:29 AM
Baseball players seem to have become used to being rewarded with long term contracts based on one or two good seasons. If a few more teams follow the same train of thought, there could be some major disappointment on the horizon. Does this smell like another collusion waiting to happen?

SMO
:?:

Fenway
10-08-2011, 12:56 AM
Baseball players seem to have become used to being rewarded with long term contracts based on one or two good seasons. If a few more teams follow the same train of thought, there could be some major disappointment on the horizon. Does this smell like another collusion waiting to happen?

SMO
:?:

I really believe some players lose the hunger when they finally get the big $$$$

Carl Crawford was an idiotic signing and the WEEI hosts today said to ownership that they feel ( and many fans as well ) that ownership told Epstein to sign Crawford at any cost. There have been whispers Theo didn't want him at all.

Crawford's contract will really bite the team when Ellsbury can test the waters besides arbitration. Ellsbury will demand more.

4 teams left and the highest payroll is Detroit at $ 105,700,231

Of the Top 10 payrolls - SEVEN did not make the post-season.
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team

The Yankees are in a class by themselves as they can pay for a bench and over 162 games that almost assures a playoff spot.

Just a hunch but I sense teams with lower payrolls bond better over a season.

soltrain21
10-08-2011, 12:58 AM
I really believe some players lose the hunger when they finally get the big $$$$

Carl Crawford was an idiotic signing and the WEEI hosts today said to ownership that they feel ( and many fans as well ) that ownership told Epstein to sign Crawford at any cost. There have been whispers Theo didn't want him at all.

Crawford's contract will really bite the team when Ellsbury can test the waters besides arbitration. Ellsbury will demand more.

4 teams left and the highest payroll is Detroit at $ 105,700,231

Of the Top 10 payrolls - SEVEN did not make the post-season.
http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team

The Yankees are in a class by themselves as they can pay for a bench and over 162 games that almost assures a playoff spot.

Just a hunch but I sense teams with lower payrolls bond better over a season.

Nope. You are in that class, too. Stop trying to tell us you aren't.

Nellie_Fox
10-08-2011, 01:02 AM
Baseball players seem to have become used to being rewarded with long term contracts based on one or two good seasons. If a few more teams follow the same train of thought, there could be some major disappointment on the horizon. Does this smell like another collusion waiting to happen?

SMO
:?:Collusion isn't simply all or most owners arriving at the same conclusion independently. It's when they get together and agree to work together against the interest of the players.

Fenway
10-08-2011, 01:12 AM
Nope. You are in that class, too. Stop trying to tell us you aren't.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your hate.

FACT - Yankees have been to the post-season every year since 1995 except for 2008.

Red Sox in that same time have not made the playoffs in 8 seasons 96,97,00,01,02,06,10,11.

In the 10 seasons that John Henry's group has owned the team they have made it 6 times, 4 times to the ALCS and won it all twice.

The Yankees have only won ONCE in ten years.

ChicagoG19
10-08-2011, 11:23 AM
Don't let the facts get in the way of your hate.

FACT - Yankees have been to the post-season every year since 1995 except for 2008.

Red Sox in that same time have not made the playoffs in 8 seasons 96,97,00,01,02,06,10,11.

In the 10 seasons that John Henry's group has owned the team they have made it 6 times, 4 times to the ALCS and won it all twice.

The Yankees have only won ONCE in ten years.

I think the original posters point was that the Red Sox have the capacity to spend like Yankees do. However, I think the Yankees have just done a better job at spending their money. As a result, they have made the playoffs more times than the Red sox.

kittle42
10-08-2011, 11:33 AM
I think the original posters point was that the Red Sox have the capacity to spend like Yankees do. However, I think the Yankees have just done a better job at spending their money. As a result, they have made the playoffs more times than the Red sox.

Correct. Fenway, the only people in the world who think the Yankees are any different than the Red Sox in the sense we're talking about here are Red Sox fans.

DumpJerry
10-08-2011, 11:46 AM
Correct. Fenway, the only people in the world who think the Yankees are any different than the Red Sox in the sense we're talking about here are Red Sox fans.
Don't forget Cub fans who seem to feel that the Cubs have a 50 man active roster where half of the roster plays in the AL East.

They also believe in the Easter Bunny.

kittle42
10-08-2011, 12:09 PM
Don't forget Cub fans who seem to feel that the Cubs have a 50 man active roster where half of the roster plays in the AL East.

They also believe in the Easter Bunny.

Which reminds me how awesome it was when, over a three-year span, the Cubs blew it and then the Red Sox and White Sox ended the next two longest stints without a championship.

Silly Cubs fans.

Fenway
10-08-2011, 12:48 PM
I think the original posters point was that the Red Sox have the capacity to spend like Yankees do. However, I think the Yankees have just done a better job at spending their money. As a result, they have made the playoffs more times than the Red sox.

Boston had a limit on what they will spend - they seldom will go over the tax figure. They then scale the ticket prices in Fenway to match the tax number.

Philadelphia is now doing this as well.

However it sounds like Henry is thinking older free agents is no longer the answer.

That said Albert Pujols now is looking at a LOT of money next year. I can see NYY offering him 30M a year. Nobody else can.

StillMissOzzie
10-08-2011, 01:45 PM
That said Albert Pujols now is looking at a LOT of money next year. I can see NYY offering him 30M a year. Nobody else can.

Yes, and Prince Fielder is in the same boat. Looking for a huge payday, and not enough deep pocket suitors.

:hawk
"Where they gonna play?"

SMO
:gulp:

Fenway
10-08-2011, 08:49 PM
Bill Madden in the NY Daily News looks at the mess high price free agents have caused both Boston and New York.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2011/10/08/2011-10-08_yankees__red_sox_wallow_in_bad_deals_but_tampa_ bay_rays_too_strapped_to_make_mov.html

But also hints Tampa Bay may be contracted....

Hitmen77
10-12-2011, 09:16 AM
The Yankees are in a class by themselves as they can pay for a bench and over 162 games that almost assures a playoff spot.

Just a hunch but I sense teams with lower payrolls bond better over a season.

Nope. You are in that class, too. Stop trying to tell us you aren't.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your hate.

FACT - Yankees have been to the post-season every year since 1995 except for 2008.

Red Sox in that same time have not made the playoffs in 8 seasons 96,97,00,01,02,06,10,11.

In the 10 seasons that John Henry's group has owned the team they have made it 6 times, 4 times to the ALCS and won it all twice.

The Yankees have only won ONCE in ten years.

I agree with Fenway. That's not to say that the Red Sox aren't in a spending/revenue class above teams not named the Yankees, but the Yankees are over the top even compared to the Red Sox.

The Red Sox have vast resources (from local TV revenue and being able to sell out every game at high ticket prices) that most other teams can't achieve and maintain year after year. This allows them to absorb bad contracts that would be total albatrosses to even other big spending teams like the White Sox or Cubs. But the Yankees blow them away. Even the Red Sox don't have the Yankees ability to just stack their team with all-stars.

At least with the Red Sox, I do see some limit to their power. With the Yankees, that's not really the case. It's no accident that NYY has made the playoffs in 16 of the last 17 years.

Interestingly, I see in the 2011 MLB payroll table that the Phillies are at the Red Sox level now. It'll be interesting to see if they sustain that.

SoxfaninLA
10-12-2011, 10:08 AM
That said Albert Pujols now is looking at a LOT of money next year. I can see NYY offering him 30M a year. Nobody else can.

No chance, where is the guy going to play? Tex is at 1B while Arod and Jeter both look like they need to be spending a couple days a week at DH. Boston and NY are completely off the Pujols radar IMO. I don't see any way the Cardinals let him get away, even if they have to sign him to a bad contract.

Fenway
10-12-2011, 04:40 PM
The Yankees in 2011 were 30M ahead of Boston BUT that is only because Cashman went all out for Cliff Lee and did not get him. Then there was nobody left.




I agree with Fenway. That's not to say that the Red Sox aren't in a spending/revenue class above teams not named the Yankees, but the Yankees are over the top even compared to the Red Sox.

The Red Sox have vast resources (from local TV revenue and being able to sell out every game at high ticket prices) that most other teams can't achieve and maintain year after year. This allows them to absorb bad contracts that would be total albatrosses to even other big spending teams like the White Sox or Cubs. But the Yankees blow them away. Even the Red Sox don't have the Yankees ability to just stack their team with all-stars.

At least with the Red Sox, I do see some limit to their power. With the Yankees, that's not really the case. It's no accident that NYY has made the playoffs in 16 of the last 17 years.

Interestingly, I see in the 2011 MLB payroll table that the Phillies are at the Red Sox level now. It'll be interesting to see if they sustain that.

Fenway
10-12-2011, 04:48 PM
No chance, where is the guy going to play? Tex is at 1B while Arod and Jeter both look like they need to be spending a couple days a week at DH. Boston and NY are completely off the Pujols radar IMO. I don't see any way the Cardinals let him get away, even if they have to sign him to a bad contract.


That is exactly what Cashman wants everyone to think....

Remember they had no interest in A-Rod either in 2004 because where would he play?

Then BANG


My hunch is Epstein is going to tell Ricketts that the Cubs need Pujols badly.

gosox41
10-12-2011, 11:20 PM
Baseball players seem to have become used to being rewarded with long term contracts based on one or two good seasons. If a few more teams follow the same train of thought, there could be some major disappointment on the horizon. Does this smell like another collusion waiting to happen?

SMO
:?:


It should come down to common sense. The stupidity of owners never ceases to amaze me. Things I wouldn't do if I were an owner:

1. Sign any free agent pitcher that is a free agent to a big contract. Note that I left myself an out if a team has a young pitcher who is talented and they can offer him 5 years of security in year 2 or 3 for a cheaper rate. $40 mill over 5 years is a lot better then $100 over 5 yrs, especially when a pitcher in the bigs for 6 years has a lot more mileage.

2. No more then 3 year contracts for any hitter over 35. NO more greenies and steroids means 35 is not the new 25.

3. Back end loaded contracts. I'd front end load them. That way your not paying a 34yo player in decline a but load of money. Present value of money theory aside, I'd rather pay $15mi to the 28 year old hitter in his prime then pay that same amount of money to the same player 5 years later. At least if he costs less he is easier to trade.

4. I'd say there is a 90% chance I wouldn't hire a first time manager. I definitely would only hire a proven GM. I'd rather pay $3MM for a GM who can build a franchise then spend the same money on a middle reliever who may or may not have a good year.

5. Cheap out on scouting and player devlopment. Makes no sense as this can save a franchise millions.


Bob

SoxfaninLA
10-13-2011, 07:38 AM
That is exactly what Cashman wants everyone to think....

Remember they had no interest in A-Rod either in 2004 because where would he play?

Then BANG


My hunch is Epstein is going to tell Ricketts that the Cubs need Pujols badly.

Arod could play at....I dont know.......THIRD BASE! That is an entirely different scenario, moving a guy from a more difficult defensive position (SS) to an easier defensive position (3B). The point is there is nowhere else for Pujols to play other than 1B and DH, and you have at least 3 (Tex, Jeter, Arod) and maybe 4 (not sure what Posada's contract situation is) fighting for time at DH. Enough with the fear mongering about the Yankees buying whoever they want, how did that go with Cliff Lee last year?

Who cares if Epstein tells Ricketts that the Cubs need Pujols? You know what, the White Sox need him too, so do the Giants, and the Orioles, and about 25 other teams in baseball but that doesn't mean he is going to go there. Pujols is either going to stay in St. Louis for a ridiculous contract, or go somewhere else for an even more ridiculous contract. Seeing that the guys who specialize in super ridiculous contracts (SAWX and the Yanks) have no place to play the guy, I would say the odds are pretty good he will be sitting in St. Louis next year. The only other team I could really see getting involved if they ever got their ownership situation resolved is the Dodgers, but McBankrupt seems content to drag that saga out as long as he possibly can.