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View Full Version : Robin Ventura new skipper, Part II


DumpJerry
10-07-2011, 10:39 PM
Carry on....
(in a civil manner)

DumpJerry
10-08-2011, 11:35 AM
I assume the thread has gone silent because of what our mothers taught us about if you have nothing nice to say......

soltrain21
10-08-2011, 02:35 PM
I'm actually really surprised. I would have assumed we'd on part three by now.

SoxSpeed22
10-08-2011, 02:41 PM
I'm actually really surprised. I would have assumed we'd on part three by now.We're all probably drained from this season, plus there were quite a few people who rage quit in the middle of the season. I already said what I needed to say about Ventura, smart guy who has the tools to be a good manager, he just has to know how to keep the team functioning and teach the young guys.

jdm2662
10-08-2011, 02:42 PM
I assume the thread has gone silent because of what our mothers taught us about if you have nothing nice to say......

It's the first nice weekend we had in over a month. It could be that people are just outside today. I just got in from raking my yard. I hadn't even touched it since Labor Day.

October26
10-08-2011, 02:49 PM
I am listening to a replay of the Robin interview on the Score right now. Robin sounds great but, of course, what matters is how he manages the Sox in 2012. I'm nervous for Robin. I worry he's been hired as a Public Relations move and that his inexperience will eventually be used against him.

I still remember Robin's last game with the Sox and how I felt like he left the Sox with lots of unfinished business. I followed Robin's career after he left the Sox (saw him play for the Mets in the 2000 World Series). I'm so glad to see him back with the Sox. Good luck, Rockin' Robin!

skobabe8
10-08-2011, 02:57 PM
Did KW interview anyone else?

Did he even TALK with anyone else??

Frater Perdurabo
10-08-2011, 03:11 PM
I think everyone has said what they have to say.

Robin didn't really say many controversial or stupid things as a player, and has been out of the spotlight for much of his post-playing career.

As far as we know, he never fell for the hidden ball trick. (Ozzie)

He never got into a public spat with his manager over shuttle drills. (Frank)

He never said anything bad about the organization after leaving. (Magglio)

He never said anything that complimented opponents and denigrated teammates at the same time. (Paulie)

He's never said anything about his preferred style of play. (Ozzie always said he preferred the NL style of play.)

He never did anything controversial as a player. He suffered a bad slump at the plate early in his career and overcame it. He suffered a horrific injury as a star veteran and overcame it. He got an obligatory lowball offer from the team when he reached free agency and politely said, "No thank you."

The only negative anyone can say about him is his lack of coaching/managerial experience. Not much else to say, really, at least until his coaching staff is complete and he starts talking about what kind of game he prefers to play.

Gammons Peter
10-08-2011, 03:59 PM
From southsidesox.com

The Chicago White Sox have asked for and been granted permission to speak with Phillies minor-league manager Mark Parent about a job on their major league coaching staff, according to a baseball source.

Parent, 50, has managed two seasons in the Phillies system. He guided Single A Lakewood to the South Atlantic League championship in 2010 and led Double A Reading to a 74-68 record and a playoff berth in 2011.

Lip Man 1
10-08-2011, 04:16 PM
Interesting. I wonder if this would be for the 3rd base coaching job? Being in the N.L. the past few years I don't know if he'd make a good bench coach and Kenny has already said the hitting coach is probably coming from inside the organization.

Lip

Gammons Peter
10-08-2011, 04:27 PM
Parent would be the Bench coach. An "old salt" veteran might undermine Robins authority.

DickAllen72
10-08-2011, 06:05 PM
I think everyone has said what they have to say.

Robin didn't really say many controversial or stupid things as a player, and has been out of the spotlight for much of his post-playing career.

As far as we know, he never fell for the hidden ball trick. (Ozzie)

He never got into a public spat with his manager over shuttle drills. (Frank)

He never said anything bad about the organization after leaving. (Magglio)

He never said anything that complimented opponents and denigrated teammates at the same time. (Paulie)

He's never said anything about his preferred style of play. (Ozzie always said he preferred the NL style of play.)

He never did anything controversial as a player. He suffered a bad slump at the plate early in his career and overcame it. He suffered a horrific injury as a star veteran and overcame it. He got an obligatory lowball offer from the team when he reached free agency and politely said, "No thank you."

The only negative anyone can say about him is his lack of coaching/managerial experience. Not much else to say, really, at least until his coaching staff is complete and he starts talking about what kind of game he prefers to play.
That perfectly sums it up.

DumpJerry
10-08-2011, 07:52 PM
I think everyone has said what they have to say.

Robin didn't really say many controversial or stupid things as a player, and has been out of the spotlight for much of his post-playing career.

As far as we know, he never fell for the hidden ball trick. (Ozzie)

He never got into a public spat with his manager over shuttle drills. (Frank)

He never said anything bad about the organization after leaving. (Magglio)

He never said anything that complimented opponents and denigrated teammates at the same time. (Paulie)

He's never said anything about his preferred style of play. (Ozzie always said he preferred the NL style of play.)

He never did anything controversial as a player. He suffered a bad slump at the plate early in his career and overcame it. He suffered a horrific injury as a star veteran and overcame it. He got an obligatory lowball offer from the team when he reached free agency and politely said, "No thank you."

The only negative anyone can say about him is his lack of coaching/managerial experience. Not much else to say, really, at least until his coaching staff is complete and he starts talking about what kind of game he prefers to play.
While he politely declined the Sox' lowball offer as a player when he left, remember Ozzie the player left with his middle finger held high in the air as he drove off into the sunset.

Robin is, if nothing else, the Anti-Ozzie. Someone commented on The Score that with Robin and Harold in the Clubhouse, it should be very quiet in there compared to the past eight years.

wassagstdu
10-09-2011, 10:53 AM
The choice of Ventura kind of looks to me like something out of "Moneyball" and the supposed role of Art Howe as Beane's cardboard cutout of a manager. Some of the anecdotes coming out now portray Ventura as the strong but quiet type, similar to the way Beane wanted Howe thought of. I sincerely hope that Ventura proves to be as strong a personality as Ozzie (without necessarily wearing it as a sandwich sign every day), and that if he does, that does not put him in soap opera part II with KW.

Another fear: that Ventura is just a sacrificial lamb put forward to deflect criticism as the Sox plumb new depths of mediocrity for the next few years. "Sure they stink, but don't you want to come out and cheer on Robin as he learns to manage?" Not that that would be a bad thing or a bad strategy. But at the end of it would Robin Ventura still be Robin Ventura?

wassagstdu
10-09-2011, 10:55 AM
While he politely declined the Sox' lowball offer as a player when he left, remember Ozzie the player left with his middle finger held high in the air as he drove off into the sunset.

That is total BS. Ozzie commented that the Sox infield was going to be weak, and it was the fans that gave Ozzie the middle finger. Ozzie never wanted to leave, he was discarded.

kittle42
10-09-2011, 01:51 PM
That is total BS. Ozzie commented that the Sox infield was going to be weak, and it was the fans that gave Ozzie the middle finger. Ozzie never wanted to leave, he was discarded.

Jose Valentin once gave me the finger when I booed him after a horrible error as he was coming to the dugout. Then, I immediately cheered him. We have an odd relationship.

JB98
10-09-2011, 03:04 PM
That is total BS. Ozzie commented that the Sox infield was going to be weak, and it was the fans that gave Ozzie the middle finger. Ozzie never wanted to leave, he was discarded.

Let's be honest: Ozzie was done when the Sox let him go. He was never a good hitter. He stayed in the big leagues for so long because his defense was a huge plus. At the end of his days with the Sox, that was no longer the case.

kufram
10-09-2011, 03:04 PM
Ok, I've thought about this for a while now and I've come to a sort of non-conclusion. We haven't hired a manager.. we've hired an ex-player who we hope can become a manager.

That's ok... Ozzie had never managed and he won a WS pretty quick. But Ozzie did do some preparation to become a manager. We had a great candidate that appeared to want the job and had done excellent preparation at Tampa Bay. Alomar is much the same... ready to manage. It's just like somebody asked him and he said "Oh... hadn't thought about that... ok."

I like the organization to stay in the family any time it can. I am a little perplexed, though, because Ventura hasn't shown a particular desire to manage to my knowledge.

Now, I'd love a success story here and I'll be pulling for him, but I can't help but wonder why Ventura instead of Martinez? Please tell me it couldn't be to please fans. That is not a good reason to hire a manager. Is he an interim manager? Possibly.

October26
10-09-2011, 03:32 PM
...Another fear: that Ventura is just a sacrificial lamb put forward to deflect criticism as the Sox plumb new depths of mediocrity for the next few years. "Sure they stink, but don't you want to come out and cheer on Robin as he learns to manage?" Not that that would be a bad thing or a bad strategy. But at the end of it would Robin Ventura still be Robin Ventura?

This is what I was trying to say in my earlier post when I mentioned that this appears to be a public relations move. You called it a sacrificial lamb move. I think of Robin as a shield which Kenny will use to deflect criticism. You and I are on the same wavelength. I hope I am wrong but this looks like a move to engage Sox fans hearts (we all love Robin Ventura). And when Konerko, Pierzynski, Danks, Quentin, Floyd, etc are traded, Kenny will go on the radio/tv and tell us that these trades are all for the good of the White Sox organization and that we need to stand behind Robin and give him time to develop into a successful manager. If Martinez or Alomar had been chosen as the next Sox manager, Kenny would have no shield because we are not emotionally invested in those two like we are with Ventura.

One question I have is why did Robin accept this job? Over the years I heard that he would not accept a coaching job because he wanted to be near his wife and 4 kids. What's changed?

Lip Man 1
10-09-2011, 05:55 PM
I assume it's because his kids are older now but to say I was shocked by this announcement would be an understatement.

Lip

slavko
10-09-2011, 06:32 PM
Be careful what you say here. This is how the Chicago Tribune's editorial cartoonist portrayed us today.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-stantis-cartoons-gallery,0,7106058.photogallery

Lip Man 1
10-09-2011, 06:36 PM
I don't get it? Sorry. (meaning the cartoon)

Lip

DSpivack
10-09-2011, 07:19 PM
Be careful what you say here. This is how the Chicago Tribune's editorial cartoonist portrayed us today.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-stantis-cartoons-gallery,0,7106058.photogallery

I really don't care what some idiot at the Tribune thinks.

KMcMahon817
10-09-2011, 07:50 PM
I don't get it? Sorry. (meaning the cartoon)

Lip

Ace Ventura...Jesse Ventura....:scratch: Not much to get.

JB98
10-09-2011, 08:15 PM
This is what I was trying to say in my earlier post when I mentioned that this appears to be a public relations move. You called it a sacrificial lamb move. I think of Robin as a shield which Kenny will use to deflect criticism. You and I are on the same wavelength. I hope I am wrong but this looks like a move to engage Sox fans hearts (we all love Robin Ventura). And when Konerko, Pierzynski, Danks, Quentin, Floyd, etc are traded, Kenny will go on the radio/tv and tell us that these trades are all for the good of the White Sox organization and that we need to stand behind Robin and give him time to develop into a successful manager. If Martinez or Alomar had been chosen as the next Sox manager, Kenny would have no shield because we are not emotionally invested in those two like we are with Ventura.

One question I have is why did Robin accept this job? Over the years I heard that he would not accept a coaching job because he wanted to be near his wife and 4 kids. What's changed?

They might think that, but Sox fans are smarter than they realize.

If next season is a massive fail, KW will get roasted by fans and media alike.

I don't see how Kenny can rebuild. He has nothing to rebuild with.

JB98
10-09-2011, 08:16 PM
I really don't care what some idiot at the Tribune thinks.

Me neither. Most of the Tribsters are *******s.

Lip Man 1
10-09-2011, 08:18 PM
McMahon:

Never saw Ace Ventura not much of a Jim Carrey fan and couldn't determine that was Jesse Ventura, sorry.

Lip

ktssox
10-09-2011, 09:07 PM
This is what I was trying to say in my earlier post when I mentioned that this appears to be a public relations move. You called it a sacrificial lamb move. I think of Robin as a shield which Kenny will use to deflect criticism.

My friend and I were discussing the move yesterday, and what we came up with is that this is sort of a no-lose situation for Kenny. Instead of being accountable, if the team were to lose the next few years, Kenny could say that they knew there would be some growing pains with Robin at the helm. If they were to surprise everyone and win, he could say that the guys he hand picked were the right guys all along and they just didn't have the right leader to motivate them. It's a no-lose situation for him. I'm just hoping the latter happens.

KingXerxes
10-10-2011, 12:01 AM
Let's just hope, when the White Sox are playing the Rangers, Ventura doesn't look up at the owners box and make eye contact with Nolan Ryan.

Brian26
10-10-2011, 12:09 AM
Let's just hope, when the White Sox are playing the Rangers, Ventura doesn't look up at the owners box and make eye contact with Nolan Ryan.

Completely overblown. Ryan got one good punch in, but the rest were sissy shots that didn't even connect. As for the scrap, Ryan got choked down to the ground while the rest of the Sox team pummelled Mickey Hatcher into oblivion.

KingXerxes
10-10-2011, 12:18 AM
Like most things it's in the eye of the beholder, but I count more than one punch here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HddrB7F66iM

Fenway
10-10-2011, 12:36 AM
Jeter likes Robin

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2011/10/07/2011-10-07_chisox_manage_to_surprise_pick_ventura_over_kon erko.html

SBSoxFan
10-10-2011, 10:28 AM
Jose Valentin once gave me the finger when I booed him after a horrible error as he was coming to the dugout. Then, I immediately cheered him. We have an odd relationship.

I think Valentin had that effect on every fan. What did he make, 30 errors in 2000? It seems like he had as many huge hits too.

kufram
10-10-2011, 10:51 AM
I think Valentin had that affect on every fan. What did he make, 30 errors in 2005? It seems like he had as many huge hits too.


Where was he in 2005?

tstrike2000
10-10-2011, 11:25 AM
Where was he in 2005?

In LA when slick fielding Juan Uribe moved SS in '05. Looking up Valentin's stats, he did have 36 errors for the Sox in 2000 and 37 for the Brewers in '96. Those were the two years he had the most errors.

WhiteSox56
10-10-2011, 11:30 AM
Robin is a smart financial move. He also has a chance to do some good things. It's a bonus if he shows some good moves next year.

slavko
10-10-2011, 11:30 AM
Like most things it's in the eye of the beholder, but I count more than one punch here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HddrB7F66iM

Memory tels me that Nolan took it easy on Robin. More like noogies than punches. If I were Robin, I'd have taken his knees out first.

doublem23
10-10-2011, 11:32 AM
In LA when slick fielding Juan Uribe moved SS in '05. Looking up Valentin's stats, he did have 36 errors for the Sox in 2000 and 37 for the Brewers in '96. Those were the two years he had the most errors.

A lot of those errors were throwing errors, though, I believe. Konerko was still a young 1B, who was essentially learning the position in 2000, he was drafted as a catcher and in the minors was all over the place, 1B here, 3B there, OF other times... In the 10 years since, Konerko's really developed a knack for digging balls out of the dirt. Valentin had a lot of errors, but he also made a lot of plays, he just had a tendency to not always know where the ball was going to go when he let it go. I think you can say that at least some of those errors would have disappeared with a more experienced 1B manning the bag.

Either way, there was definitely a love/hate relationship with Manos in 2000. Sure, his occasional defensive gaffes were maddening but when the Sox needed someone to come through at the plate you were praying for either 1a. Frank Thomas or 1b. Jose Valentin. They both had ice in their veins that season.

WhiteSox56
10-10-2011, 11:32 AM
Memory tels me that Nolan took it easy on Robin. More like noogies than punches. If I were Robin, I'd have taken his knees out first.

Neither one impressed me:D:

A. Cavatica
10-10-2011, 02:18 PM
Because of the money the Sox are saving on Ventura, they may be able to bring in one extra role player. Woohoo!

SBSoxFan
10-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Where was he in 2005?

In LA when slick fielding Juan Uribe moved SS in '05. Looking up Valentin's stats, he did have 36 errors for the Sox in 2000 and 37 for the Brewers in '96. Those were the two years he had the most errors.

Sorry. Yes, I meant to type 2000.

ChiSoxGirl
10-10-2011, 10:01 PM
In LA when slick fielding Juan Uribe moved SS in '05. Looking up Valentin's stats, he did have 36 errors for the Sox in 2000 and 37 for the Brewers in '96. Those were the two years he had the most errors.

Hence the "Stone Fingers" nickname you bestowed on him. :wink:

TheVulture
10-10-2011, 10:42 PM
Manos turned 117 double plays in 136 games at SS in 2000, the year he made all those errors, along with a range factor of 5.11. Those are Ozzie Smith numbers right there, in fact Ozzie Smith never turned 117 DP during any season of his career! Who cares if he made 20 too many errors if your making 100+ extra outs compared to the average SS. Valentin was a huge reason the Sox won 95 games and the AL Central in 2000, end of story.

Daver
10-10-2011, 10:53 PM
Manos turned 117 double plays in 136 games at SS in 2000, the year he made all those errors, along with a range factor of 5.11. Those are Ozzie Smith numbers right there, in fact Ozzie Smith never turned 117 DP during any season of his career! Who cares if he made 20 too many errors if your making 100+ extra outs compared to the average SS. Valentin was a huge reason the Sox won 95 games and the AL Central in 2000, end of story.


Nope.

Errors are the be all and end all of judging defensive performance.

SoxSpeed22
10-10-2011, 11:46 PM
The White Sox won the division in 2000 thanks to hitting tons of home runs (which Valentin had a part of) and outslugging their opponents. To win the division, the White Sox will need a lineup that can win in any way, have power, and have the pitching and ability to win close low scoring games. That might be asking a lot though.
The Rangers might be the best example of a lineup to take after.

wassagstdu
10-11-2011, 08:14 AM
Manos turned 117 double plays in 136 games at SS in 2000, the year he made all those errors, along with a range factor of 5.11. Those are Ozzie Smith numbers right there, in fact Ozzie Smith never turned 117 DP during any season of his career! Who cares if he made 20 too many errors if your making 100+ extra outs compared to the average SS. Valentin was a huge reason the Sox won 95 games and the AL Central in 2000, end of story.

Luis Aparicio made 35 errors as Rookie of the Year in 1956. (Almost all were throwing errors, making impossible plays. And I don't think the 1B had anything to do with it, since IIRC most ended up in the dugout or the stands.)

Viva Medias B's
10-11-2011, 09:00 AM
What time is the presser today?

ElevenUp
10-11-2011, 09:02 AM
what time is the presser today?


11 am iirc

aryzner
10-11-2011, 12:07 PM
This press conference has started and I must say that I do like being able to easily understand our new manager's every spoken word so far.

You can see it on csnchicago.com if anyone hasn't mentioned that yet.

FielderJones
10-11-2011, 01:38 PM
You can see it on csnchicago.com if anyone hasn't mentioned that yet.

Highlights (http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/whitesox-talk/post/Ventura-overjoyed-excited-for-opportunit?blockID=575598&feedID=661)

SoxSpeed22
10-11-2011, 01:54 PM
The presser was extremely vanilla. At least Robin's willing to hold the players accountable.

Over By There
10-11-2011, 02:15 PM
Sorry if this was posted elsewhere, thought it was pertinent.

http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/934235221/Maria2_normal.jpg@scottmerkin Scott Merkin
According to KW, three years, no option for Ventura

ilsox7
10-11-2011, 02:30 PM
Rumor is Ventura is now demanding an extension, saying he will not manage next year without one.

salty99
10-11-2011, 02:35 PM
Rumor is Ventura is now demanding an extension, saying he will not manage next year without one.

Is Cooper also plotting his demise?

KyWhiSoxFan
10-11-2011, 02:53 PM
Rumor is Ventura is now demanding an extension, saying he will not manage next year without one.

At least that is what he is rumored to have said, because no one could understand him; he was speaking Spanish.

central44
10-11-2011, 02:54 PM
I hope he means what he says about "accountability." Ozzie never understood that concept.

Related--I remember when the Marlins hired Jack McKeon this year and he immediatly benched Hanley Ramirez, and everyone was talking about what an "old school guy" he was. I remember thinking "I wish we had a guy more like that."

...I just thought it was funny that the Marlins hired Ozzie immediatly afterward. Random thought I know :D:

roylestillman
10-11-2011, 04:44 PM
Well they put Robin to work on the robo- calls. Just got a cheery "Hello, This is Robin Ventura" call from the White Sox asking me and other "special fans" to join him in a live forum Wednesday at noon.