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dougs78
07-15-2002, 09:36 AM
Was reading on Sportingnews.com and saw a little blurb about us possibly shipping durham and clayton to the Braves. Nothing more than that was written, so I don't know what its about. Its from their fantasy source website, where, its been my experience that they usually pull these bits of info from one of two places....either local papers or their A$$. Just wondering if anyones seen anything in a paper about this.

thanks,

DrCrawdad
07-15-2002, 10:01 AM
Do you have a link for the article? If it requires subscribing or registering (which it looks like you have to) would you post the article?

Thanks,
DrCrawdad

Jerry_Manuel
07-15-2002, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
Do you have a link for the article? If it requires subscribing or registering (which it looks like you have to) would you post the article?


We talked about this a few days ago, Dr.

The South Town thinks its' Furcal for Ray & Choice.

Braves (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/131sd2.htm)

DrCrawdad
07-15-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
We talked about this a few days ago, Dr.

The South Town thinks its' Furcal for Ray & Choice.

I remember that discussion. IIRC I participated in the discussion.

I read the Southtown article, but he referred to an article in SportingNews.com. I haven't read that SportingNews article and couldn't find it.

- DrCrawdad.

dougs78
07-15-2002, 10:45 AM
What is the link to the threads about the Southtown article? I didnt' catch any of those.

Crawdad, what i'm referring to is a section on the sportingnews.com that gives blurbs about players and then puts a "fantasy spin" on it. Its not heavy on info at all. Heres what it said for Ray Durham:

Durham could be packaged with Royce Clayton in a trade to Atlanta. (Scot Gregor/TSN)
Fantasy Spin: That could open up playing time for D'Angelo Jimenez.

The page is here (http://fantasy.sportingnews.com/baseball/nuggets/daily/20020714.html)

I'm assuming they were just responding to the article also.

Jerry_Manuel
07-15-2002, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by dougs78
What is the link to the threads about the Southtown article? I didnt' catch any of those.


Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12981)

Tragg
07-15-2002, 10:58 AM
Take a few top prospects and forget Furcal. He will be expensive soon (if he isn't already) and he isn't much with the bat.

In my view, there are only a handful of catchers and shortstops worth paying much money for. If you don't have one of those (and you must pay to keep one), you can get by with a good glove/arm guy who can work the bat (take a walk, bunt, hit to the correct side of the infield, maybe a sac fly).

The Sox have it wrong on two counts. We are paying top $ to our mediocre catcher and SS. PLUS neither can work the bat worth a F.

If Borchard is as advertised, he will cost $$ soon. So will Crede. So will MB and any other pitcher who develops. Solid D behind them plus a hitting core of Konerko, Maggs, Borchard and one other guy, will put us in good stead for years to come.

We need to adjust a bit - some rebuilding - but we have a core.

dougs78
07-15-2002, 11:01 AM
Thanks, Coach.

FanOf14
07-15-2002, 01:38 PM
I have to admit that I am nervous about dealing with the Braves. During the past off season, they were very interested in Konerko. After all the botched trades I've seen KW perform, I am really nervous that they will get PK and the Sox get very little in return. I didn't read the article that was attached so I haven't a clue to who the say they are interested in, but after a quote that I saw from KW that no player is safe, I am getting really nervous about this.

Daver
07-15-2002, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I have to admit that I am nervous about dealing with the Braves. During the past off season, they were very interested in Konerko. After all the botched trades I've seen KW perform, I am really nervous that they will get PK and the Sox get very little in return. I didn't read the article that was attached so I haven't a clue to who the say they are interested in, but after a quote that I saw from KW that no player is safe, I am getting really nervous about this.

Dealing Konerko,who is a fan favorite and arbitration eligible next season makes little sense.

FanOf14
07-15-2002, 01:43 PM
I know it doesn't daver, but this is KW that we're talking about, there hasn't been much sense since he took the reigns.

kevingrt
07-15-2002, 02:46 PM
I heard of the trade to it was like Ray and Royce for Rafeal Furcal, not bad

ma-gaga
07-15-2002, 03:08 PM
I can't believe that the Braves would trade Furcal for a rent-a-player. I can't believe that the Sox would trade Konerko. That would be horrible...

I don't see a match here, unless it's minor-leaguers.
Just my $0.02. The Braves have need of a first baseman though...

Chisoxfn
07-15-2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by FanOf14
I know it doesn't daver, but this is KW that we're talking about, there hasn't been much sense since he took the reigns.

Come on now. Every trade KW made has had direction and purpose. They may not of work, but he was always dealing based on some sense.

When he made the Wells deal, we were an ace pitcher from winning it. He went out and got what he hoped would be the ace pitcher, unfortunately he wasn't.

When he got Clayton, it was his take that this team needed better up the middle defense. He got a great defender and although some don't like him, there was purpose to the move cause it solidified our shortstop slot.

When we got Ritchie we needed a veteran starter. He didn't pan out but the need was there.

When we got Marte, we needed a left-handed arm and this move did pay off.

When we got Jimenez it was a smart move cause we didn't have anyone who truly could play shortstop in our organization and got someone who has a great future there.

See, he isn't making this moves just randomly, he's doing them to make the team better and every move made some sense. He wasn't great at what he gave up, but he's improving cause he did decent the past two deals.

Cheryl
07-15-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn

When he got Clayton, it was his take that this team needed better up the middle defense. He got a great defender and although some don't like him, there was purpose to the move cause it solidified our shortstop slot.


IIRC, he got Clayton specifically to deal to some other team, but that deal fell through.

Tragg
07-15-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn


Come on now. Every trade KW made has had direction and purpose. They may not of work, but he was always dealing based on some sense.




I agree that there was a reason behind each trade. However, Clayton is not a "Great" defender. Pretty average, actually. And KW has proven to be a piss poor evaluator of talent, especially his own.

Chisox353014
07-15-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn


Come on now. Every trade KW made has had direction and purpose. They may not of work, but he was always dealing based on some sense.

When he made the Wells deal, we were an ace pitcher from winning it. He went out and got what he hoped would be the ace pitcher, unfortunately he wasn't.

When he got Clayton, it was his take that this team needed better up the middle defense. He got a great defender and although some don't like him, there was purpose to the move cause it solidified our shortstop slot.

When we got Ritchie we needed a veteran starter. He didn't pan out but the need was there.

When we got Marte, we needed a left-handed arm and this move did pay off.

When we got Jimenez it was a smart move cause we didn't have anyone who truly could play shortstop in our organization and got someone who has a great future there.

See, he isn't making this moves just randomly, he's doing them to make the team better and every move made some sense. He wasn't great at what he gave up, but he's improving cause he did decent the past two deals.

You know your GM is bad when the person defending him has a signature that says "Kenny Williams should be castrated and fired."

PaleHoseGeorge
07-15-2002, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
IIRC, he got Clayton specifically to deal to some other team, but that deal fell through.

True. Last August he admitted his plan had been to turn around and trade Clayton to another team before opening day, 2001. He thought he was getting such a bargain (trading Myette and some other nobody) that he was certain to get better value.

The logical flaws in KW's reasoning are amazing to consider. If anybody wanted Clayton, why wouldn't they have traded with Texas directly? And if they still wanted Clayton, why would the price they pay be any greater than what they had already offered Texas--especially after the Sox had already paid the steeper price?

Williams finally pulled Clayton off the market in January, 2002. That's 13 months without success finding a trading partner. We're flat out stuck with him until the season ends and his contract expires. JR isn't willing to have $4.5 million sitting on the bench. That's the most obvious reason Joe Crede is still in minors.

:KW
"Please don't bring up the Barry/Berry trade, okay?"

Paulwny
07-15-2002, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

The logical flaws in KW's reasoning are amazing to consider. If anybody wanted Clayton, why wouldn't they have traded with Texas directly? And if they still wanted Clayton, why would the price they pay be any greater than what they had already offered Texas--especially after the Sox had already paid the steeper price?


The only possible reason may be that the offer team "X" made to Texas was unacceptable. Instead of pulling of a 3 team trade KW goes the easier way, team "X" changes it's mind about Claytin and KW get's suckered. Welcome to GM course 101.

PaleHoseGeorge
07-15-2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
The only possible reason may be that the offer team "X" made to Texas was unacceptable. Instead of pulling of a 3 team trade KW goes the easier way, team "X" changes it's mind about Claytin and KW get's suckered. Welcome to GM course 101.

Yes, but at that point, the price team "X" offers for Clayton remains unchanged or (more likely) goes down. If KW couldn't pull off a 3-way trade in the first place, what makes him think he could pull off a 2-way after paying the price for Clayton? If anything, the deal would be worse for the Sox, since team "X" knows the Sox are no longer the competition for trying to acquire him from Texas.

Let's remember, Williams stated he intended to turn around and trade Clayton again. Clearly he thought he was going to do BETTER in the subsequent deal. The guy is a retard.

:KW
"And I can't spell either!"

Jerry_Manuel
07-15-2002, 06:30 PM
From the South Town (http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/dssports/pro/151sd6.htm)

Atlanta was rumored to be willing to send shortstop Rafael Furcal (.285, 4 homers, 26 RBI) and cash to the Sox in exchange for Durham and shortstop Royce Clayton. That, however, is no longer the case as the Braves have turned their attention elsewhere.

The Sox have been trying to trade Clayton, another free agent after this season, since the middle of 2001.

"There is absolutely no interest in him," the source said.

Paulwny
07-15-2002, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Atlanta was rumored to be willing to send shortstop Rafael Furcal (.285, 4 homers, 26 RBI) and cash to the Sox in exchange for Durham and shortstop Royce Clayton. That, however, is no longer the case as the Braves have turned their attention elsewhere.

Roberto Alomar may be on the block, Mets may be getting ready to dump $$$.

Spiff
07-15-2002, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
Quote:
Atlanta was rumored to be willing to send shortstop Rafael Furcal (.285, 4 homers, 26 RBI) and cash to the Sox in exchange for Durham and shortstop Royce Clayton. That, however, is no longer the case as the Braves have turned their attention elsewhere.

Roberto Alomar may be on the block, Mets may be getting ready to dump $$$.

Yeah Scheurholtz (sp) didn't make the Braves into a perennial contender by trading for garbage like Royce.