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View Full Version : Should Kenny go too?


Milw
09-27-2011, 03:02 PM
Now that Ozzie is out, do you want Kenny to follow him out the door?

guillensdisciple
09-27-2011, 03:14 PM
Yes

sox1970
09-27-2011, 03:16 PM
Entering this season, I said if the Sox don't make the playoffs, Kenny should leave the day after the season ends.

It won't happen, but it should have.

asindc
09-27-2011, 03:20 PM
No.

balke
09-27-2011, 03:24 PM
I think he'll be promoted up or let go once he let's Buehrle walk. I personally don't think either HAD to go. Ozzie did say "fire me too" if Walker got the axe. So maybe that's part of it cause at least Walker had to go.

sullythered
09-27-2011, 03:28 PM
YES. Yes.

Dibbs
09-27-2011, 03:35 PM
Sure, but I will be fine if they give him a year or two.

gobears1987
09-27-2011, 03:37 PM
Yes, this team won't be a contender again until 2015 and that's because Kenny spent this team's payroll.

jdm2662
09-27-2011, 03:39 PM
I always felt he was a better GM when he was forced to be creative and make small moves. This is exactly what needs to be done to clean this mess. If they give him a year or fire him right now, I don't care either way. Ozzie and his act is gone. That's what I really wanted.

Irishsox1
09-27-2011, 03:45 PM
Who signed Rios and Dunn and traded for Peavy? Kenny = Krause.

Boondock Saint
09-27-2011, 03:49 PM
Who signed Rios and Dunn and traded for Peavy? Kenny = Krause.

:facepalm:

Soxman219
09-27-2011, 04:01 PM
He's got one year.

CLUBHOUSE KID
09-27-2011, 04:03 PM
If for any reason I would want KW it would be because I think he is a douche. Kaplan is nicer than him.

soxinem1
09-27-2011, 04:06 PM
2011 year End Slogan: It's Time......

tstrike2000
09-27-2011, 04:07 PM
If for any reason I would want KW it would be because I think he is a douche. Kaplan is nicer than him.

Wow.

doublem23
09-27-2011, 04:13 PM
Kenny = Krause.

Ah, so this is the new catchphrase du jour? Well, I like it more than that insanity line.

Noneck
09-27-2011, 04:14 PM
I dont think it really matters who the GM is in this organization.

sullythered
09-27-2011, 04:21 PM
I dont think it really matters who the GM is in this organization.

Why? JR spends money, we just need somebody to spend it in the right places.

NardiWasHere
09-27-2011, 04:27 PM
I would support a Paxson/Gar thing with KW/Hahn. Otherwise, I don't care.

Noneck
09-27-2011, 04:40 PM
Why? JR spends money, we just need somebody to spend it in the right places.


If you are sure the GM had that authority in all cases, you would be correct.

Irishsox1
09-27-2011, 04:43 PM
Kenny Krause just sounds so good, it's as if I channeled my inner Mariotti (without the stalking, arrests and hair pulling). It's great on all levels in that they both won championships, they both pushed out the coach that won it for them, they both work for Reinsdorf and they both made horrible post championship deals/drafts. Of course time will tell if keeping Kenny is the right move.

Nellie_Fox
09-27-2011, 04:45 PM
It doesn't matter what you want; it doesn't matter what I want. He's not going anywhere.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-27-2011, 05:17 PM
It doesn't matter what you want; it doesn't matter what I want. He's not going anywhere.

Which is probably right. It was reported a few weeks ago that KW would be back in 2012, which meant Ozzie was the one who was going.

For those of us who dislike KW for all his boneheaded moves, the best we can hope for is him being kicked upstairs and someone else takes over as the GM and the day-to-day responsibilities.

asindc
09-27-2011, 05:26 PM
This poll lacks churros.

tsoxman
09-27-2011, 05:42 PM
Sure, but I will be fine if they give him a year or two.
I voted yes, but if you think about it, you are probably right. How much more damage could he do? I am sure he is on a short leash relative to his patently stupid all-in deals where he swaps younger players for some other team's high price veterans

DirtySox
09-27-2011, 06:06 PM
ChuckGarfien Chuck Garfien
Kenny Williams says he recently told Reinsdorf he would step down. "I was completely prepared to vacate the seat."
2 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply


ChuckGarfien Chuck Garfien
Williams says Reinsdorf wanted to keep him as general manager.
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Lip Man 1
09-27-2011, 06:10 PM
If he doesn't turn things around, JR will move him upstairs or he'll invent a face saving way for him to leave.

But he's not getting fired...not this year, not now.

Lip

Crestani
09-27-2011, 06:46 PM
Absolutely...However, retaining Baines probably signals they are only changing the manager and hitting coach, and most likely third base coach.

Lip Man 1
09-27-2011, 07:15 PM
And those three alone are progress.

Lip

slavko
09-27-2011, 08:08 PM
Sure, but I will be fine if they give him a year or two.

Check. Later, but not a lot.

hula
09-27-2011, 09:58 PM
He should have been shown the door a long time ago - like when he signed Dunn!

Boondock Saint
09-27-2011, 10:01 PM
He should have been shown the door a long time ago - like when he signed Dunn!

Right, because every GM saw this season coming. If KW didn't sign him, he'd have been picked up by a AA team with a $15,000 contract.

WhiteSox5187
09-27-2011, 10:34 PM
He absolutely deserves to go, but he probably won't be fired.

palehozenychicty
09-27-2011, 11:02 PM
And those three alone are progress.

Lip

Indeed. The team will feel very different. Better is unknown, but different is the key word.

Flight #24
09-27-2011, 11:09 PM
He should have been shown the door a long time ago - like when he signed Dunn!

Yes, because everyone thought the guy with 6-7 straight years of 35-40HR would have one of the worst seasons in MLB history.

Of course, most guys who suck that bad don't actually get the chance to keep heading out, but the reason for that just walked out the door and jumped on a plane S.

Vernam
09-27-2011, 11:26 PM
Right, because every GM saw this season coming. If KW didn't sign him, he'd have been picked up by a AA team with a $15,000 contract.

You're right, the revisionist view of Kenny is pretty stark. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who are now the most adamant about canning him are the same ones who were never happy unless he was trying to play Hendryball by signing over-priced talent. He finally succumbed to the temptation, and now all the people who were pro-Dunn, pro-Peavy, etc. have convenient amnesia.

Apologies to the people who actually bitched about those deals at the time. Of all people, you have every right to bash Kenny. But the people who are pretending they weren't ecstatic about those deals are total hypocrites. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to be let go, it just means Sox fans are lucky some of us aren't running the team, because we'd have ****ed it up at least as bad.

Even his detractors would be hard-pressed to prove Kenny isn't pretty creative and persistent. We all need to hope his creativity comes through to remake this team instead of to make it worse, which desperate GMs have been known to do. (Again, Hendryball.) His comments to Kraplan today sounded scarily close to "we like what we've got," which will spell disaster. If he sets out to prove a different manager can win with this same ****ty team, he might be every bit as crazy as Cowley claims. God, I hope not.

Vernam

PaleHoser
09-27-2011, 11:45 PM
Absolutely...However, retaining Baines probably signals they are only changing the manager and hitting coach, and most likely third base coach.

Harold as hitting coach?

We might learn to hit in the clutch and go the other way off quality pitching if he could teach his approach.

Lip Man 1
09-27-2011, 11:51 PM
Watched Kenny's long interview with Kaplan tonight on Chicago Tribune Live! and was struck by the thoughtful, measured responses he gave.

Kenny didn't duck the questions, answering what he could, with what he knows right now and he took the blame for this season. And you could tell there still was deep personal friendly feelings towards Ozzie by him.

Lip

captain54
09-28-2011, 12:22 AM
Watched Kenny's long interview with Kaplan tonight on Chicago Tribune Live! and was struck by the thoughtful, measured responses he gave.

Kenny didn't duck the questions, answering what he could, with what he knows right now and he took the blame for this season. And you could tell there still was deep personal friendly feelings towards Ozzie by him.

Lip

That was interesting.... But honestly Lip, aren't you tired of the press conferences, the measured responses, the insights into this and that and
how things didn't work, etc..?

I seriously have forgotten what's it's like to watch exciting, thrilling, White Sox baseball.. All the verbiage is starting to get to me...

Vernam
09-28-2011, 12:24 AM
Kenny didn't duck the questions, answering what he could, with what he knows right now and he took the blame for this season. And you could tell there still was deep personal friendly feelings towards Ozzie by him.

Lip, that's true, but I'd go so far as to say he's in denial. It's like he doesn't realize that Ozzie hates him as is clearly the case. In alluding to Cowley, whom he didn't mention by name, Kenny said that lies were disseminated about both him and Ozzie, as if he can't admit to himself the truth about how Ozzie used Cowley as his mouthpiece.

Vernam

DSpivack
09-28-2011, 01:05 AM
Lip, that's true, but I'd go so far as to say he's in denial. It's like he doesn't realize that Ozzie hates him as is clearly the case. In alluding to Cowley, whom he didn't mention by name, Kenny said that lies were disseminated about both him and Ozzie, as if he can't admit to himself the truth about how Ozzie used Cowley as his mouthpiece.

Vernam

Even if Kenny thought that in private, I don't see him trashing Ozzie in public. There's nothing to be gained at this point in doing so.

pczarapa
09-28-2011, 01:12 AM
I think it would be pretty healthy, take Dunn and Peavy with him

Now that Ozzie is out, do you want Kenny to follow him out the door?

pczarapa
09-28-2011, 01:17 AM
Even if Kenny thought that in private, I don't see him trashing Ozzie in public. There's nothing to be gained at this point in doing so.

I agree, don't see any way/rhyme/reason he trashes him as in the end it would just reflect poorly on him. Let's just hope the Bears can help mitigate this mess until spring.

CWSpalehoseCWS
09-28-2011, 03:21 AM
I agree, don't see any way/rhyme/reason he trashes him as in the end it would just reflect poorly on him. Let's just hope the Bears can help mitigate this mess until spring.

I wouldn't rely on the Bears for anything. Hope you like hockey though. Your best bet.

soxfanatlanta
09-28-2011, 06:24 AM
The complete lack of talent in the minors falls on him; he needs to leave the GM position.

Vernam
09-28-2011, 08:48 AM
Even if Kenny thought that in private, I don't see him trashing Ozzie in public. There's nothing to be gained at this point in doing so.

You're right, but it sure seemed sincere. He really seemed to think Cowley has wronged Ozzie as much as anyone. I wouldn't expect him to air out the Cowley-Guillen dynamic, but it was like he was trying to stick up for Ozzie by saying they were both victims of Cowley (which would be delusional) or else he was obfuscating by trying to pretend they weren't in cahoots.

Oh, well, I guess none of it matters now. Let's get the new manager in here so we can start psychoanalyzing him. :wink:

Vernam

October26
09-28-2011, 08:52 AM
The complete lack of talent in the minors falls on him; he needs to leave the GM position.

:thumbsup: Absolutely. I used to be a KW fan, until he depleted the Sox minor leaugue system.

Can I vote more than once? :D:

harwar
09-28-2011, 09:07 AM
It seems to me that he's always been a loose cannon cowboy type of Gm .. i think that he's been hauled in on the carpet and taken down a notch by the powers that be .. he sure seemed humbled at his press conference and all the talk of taking a step back, building up the minor league system and paying a price for all those years of throwing haymakers and missing and now taking it on the chin .. seemed like a bitter pill for him to swallow

24thStFan
09-28-2011, 10:03 AM
His comments to Kraplan today sounded scarily close to "we like what we've got," which will spell disaster. If he sets out to prove a different manager can win with this same ****ty team, he might be every bit as crazy as Cowley claims. God, I hope not.
Vernam

I don't live in Chicago and did not hear the local interviews, but what I saw of KW on the national telecasts, he seemed "surprised" by Ozzie's move and even said he wasn't contemplating any changes in the offseason!

This shocked me, so I'm interested in hearing more about his rebuilding plans. I am very skeptical.

Hitmen77
09-28-2011, 10:14 AM
Part of me wants Kenny to be shown the door the moment we lose Mark Buehrle as a result of the Sox spending the last couple of years throwing money at players like Dunn, Rios, Edwin Jackson, and Manny Ramirez.

Some fans may have wanted those moves, but it's Kenny's responsibility when these moves fail, not theirs.

No one expected Dunn to totally collapse as a player, but it wasn't like he was expected to be an all-star. KW paid a lot of money for a career .250 hitter who strikes out prolifically.

Even his detractors would be hard-pressed to prove Kenny isn't pretty creative and persistent. We all need to hope his creativity comes through to remake this team instead of to make it worse, which desperate GMs have been known to do. (Again, Hendryball.) His comments to Kraplan today sounded scarily close to "we like what we've got," which will spell disaster. If he sets out to prove a different manager can win with this same ****ty team, he might be every bit as crazy as Cowley claims. God, I hope not.



This is one reason why I'm reluctant to just wish Kenny gone right now. Now that he's painted the Sox into a payroll/talent corner, the one thing that might save us is his knack for finding scrap heap talent.

My problem with him is that I don't think you can build a consistent winner with scrap heap talent and under the radar finds as your cornerstone. But, at this point, since the Sox are saddled with bloated contracts and declining attendance, they might need to hope that KW's area of strength can at least make them respectable next year.

The complete lack of talent in the minors falls on him; he needs to leave the GM position.

Agreed. This is ultimately at the core of the Sox problem. Since the Sox consistently have one of the worst farm systems, they have had to overspend for questionable talent.

I don't know how much of a hand KW has in that since others are running the farm system. But it is happening under his watch and the farm system personnel are his subordinates.

I also don't know what is the real factor behind the Sox constantly making crappy picks draft after draft. Is it KW and his staff not getting the job done? Or is is more because JR refuses to pay for better picks and/or to pour more money into scouting, international draft, etc.

asindc
09-28-2011, 10:19 AM
Part of me wants Kenny to be shown the door the moment we lose Mark Buehrle as a result of the Sox spending the last couple of years throwing money at players like Dunn, Rios, Edwin Jackson, and Manny Ramirez.

Some fans may have wanted those moves, but it's Kenny's responsibility when these moves fail, not theirs.

No one expected Dunn to totally collapse as a player, but it wasn't like he was expected to be an all-star. KW paid a lot of money for a career .250 hitter who strikes out prolifically.



This is one reason why I'm reluctant to just wish Kenny gone right now. Now that he's painted the Sox into a payroll/talent corner, the one thing that might save us is his knack for finding scrap heap talent.

My problem with him is that I don't think you can build a consistent winner with scrap heap talent and under the radar finds as your cornerstone. But, at this point, since the Sox are saddled with bloated contracts and declining attendance, they might need to hope that KW's area of strength can at least make them respectable next year.



Agreed. This is ultimately at the core of the Sox problem. Since the Sox consistently have one of the worst farm systems, they have had to overspend for questionable talent.

I don't know how much of a hand KW has in that since others are running the farm system. But it is happening under his watch and the farm system personnel are his subordinates.

I also don't know what is the real factor behind the Sox constantly making crappy picks draft after draft. Is it KW and his staff not getting the job done? Or is is more because JR refuses to pay for better picks and/or to pour more money into scouting, international draft, etc.

As always, these are questions worth asking before deciding if a different GM would make a difference in the farm system and scouting departments.

doublem23
09-28-2011, 11:04 AM
No one expected Dunn to totally collapse as a player, but it wasn't like he was expected to be an all-star. KW paid a lot of money for a career .250 hitter who strikes out prolifically.


I also like how you convienently forget that Dunn, while hitting .250 and striking out a lot, simultaneously hit 40 HR and had an OPS of .900+.

:bandance:

Hitmen77
09-28-2011, 11:23 AM
I also like how you convienently forget that Dunn, while hitting .250 and striking out a lot, simultaneously hit 40 HR and had an OPS of .900+.

:bandance:

My bad. I wasn't intending to portray only the worst that Dunn had to offer and I should have given more of the entire picture. Like I said, I don't think anyone expected him to totally collapse like he did in 2011.

My point is that he did have his downsides when KW acquired him. It's not just the .250 average either. To me, Dunn still fits with the pattern of the Sox having to overpay to compensate for their own lack of talent.

Did I expect Rios to be hitting .210 for us when the Sox acquired him? No. But again, it's not like he was wowing everyone with his play when Kenny acquired him.

That's Kenny's style, right? Take some risks, Kenny the Gambler, etc. We're seeing the downside of this approach right now. You need to take some risks to win (we don't want a return to the Scheuler days), but I would like the Sox to have an approach to winning that isn't quite so centered on hoping to win on a go-for-broke approach.

TaylorStSox
09-28-2011, 11:52 PM
For a team that's had such a bad farm for so long, it seems like we'll have a lot of players on next years squad who spent time in the system. De Aza, Tank, Morel, Beckham, Ramirez, Flowers, Sale, Santos, Reed,, Lilly... that's not all that bad of a core. Granted we didn't draft all those guys but the Sox played a role in their development.