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View Full Version : What are the Sox going to do about Rios, Dunn and Peavy?


Irishsox1
09-27-2011, 10:31 AM
Between the three of them that's $43 Million for 2012 and those are some high priced players who have underperformed since they've shown up.

How is the new manager (whomever it may be) going to fix that mess?

doublem23
09-27-2011, 10:34 AM
How is the new manager (whomever it may be) going to fix that mess?

Hope they play better?

I mean, what else is he supposed to do? I guess he could try and poison them, or maybe take out a kneecap with a crowbar.

Lip Man 1
09-27-2011, 10:35 AM
Irish:

It's possible a new field manager and a new staff may be able to push buttons that Ozzie was not able to or didn't wish to do with these guys that could cause different reactions and production.

It's also possible one of them may be moved as part of a larger deal and if the Sox are willing to eat salary.

Personally I'd hang on to Peavy. It looks like the Sox are going to need starting pitching and Peavy being 18 months removed from his injury could bounce back.

Lip

Noneck
09-27-2011, 10:42 AM
Maybe a creative trade. Packaging a gold nugget with a turd may get you some salary relief.

TheOldRoman
09-27-2011, 11:13 AM
Peavy will be back closer to the old Jake Peavy next year. He is fully recovered from the surgery and was rebuilding strenth all this season. Dunn's season is so inexplicably horrible that is has to be a fluke. Getting a few months away from the game, getting in a little better shape and getting a fresh perspective from a competant hitting coach could work wonders. As for Rios? We don't know what to expect from him. Just hope that with a new hitting coach, which should also make the rest of the lineup better, he is in a better atmosphere and has a better mindset than this season.

chisox12
09-27-2011, 11:18 AM
Hope they play better?

I mean, what else is he supposed to do? I guess he could try and poison them, or maybe take out a kneecap with a crowbar.

I think hope they play better is all that any manager can do. No one is going to take any of these guys in a trade unless the Sox pick up a majority of their salary which isn't going to happen.

Jerko
09-27-2011, 11:21 AM
Hopefully Peavy and Rios improve. I don't hold out much hope for Dunn. But, they have to use him so he (Dunn) might have to be relegated to the 7-9 spot and play only against righties. I say give them a month and if no improvement is made, bench their asses. If these guys stink and are STILL trotted out there every day, that place will be barren by Memorial Day, Ozzie or no Ozzie. Well, no Ozzie.

Noneck
09-27-2011, 11:27 AM
I say give them a month and if no improvement is made, bench their asses.

Peavy can be relegated to mop up duty, Rios to a late inning defensive replacement or pinch runner, Dunn on the bench is just a bump on a log. Teams cant go with a 24 man roster for long periods.

Hitmen77
09-27-2011, 11:40 AM
Between the three of them that's $43 Million for 2012 and those are some high priced players who have underperformed since they've shown up.

How is the new manager (whomever it may be) going to fix that mess?

What are the Sox going to do about this trio? Nothing. They're practically untradeable and the Sox will have to suck it up and hope they rebound. At least Peavy comes off the books after next season.

How is the new manager going to fix this mess? I doubt he can since I expect the Sox to try to slash payroll for next year. If they cut payroll to around $100M, that leaves only about $60M for everyone except Peavy, Dunn, and Rios. Get ready for a bunch of reclamation project acquisitions.

Plus the Sox have very little young talent that can be called upon to improve this team......2012 might be a very long season for us.

soxinem1
09-27-2011, 12:11 PM
Hope they play better?

I mean, what else is he supposed to do? I guess he could try and poison them, or maybe take out a kneecap with a crowbar.

We will still be on the hook for their salaries, and medical coverage.

doublem23
09-27-2011, 12:13 PM
We will still be on the hook for their salaries, and medical coverage.

Yeah but they wouldn't be playing.

russ99
09-27-2011, 12:23 PM
I hope Kenny can do something creative to send Dunn back to the NL. He's a poor fit here. A DH who wants to play the field in order to do well at the plate, but can't play any position adequately. The Sox have a better chance to win with Konerko at 1B and Quentin at DH.

Peavy is not a sure thing. While his doctors think he'll do better next year, this is still a groundbreaking procedure in baseball. Personally, I'd love to see the Sox cut him loose and give Mark his last payday here, but I think we're stuck with him since nobody's trading for damaged goods.

Rios is salvagable, as we saw last year. Take Walker out as hitting coach and he could do well next year, as his whole mental outlook is up or down depending on his hitting.

With all three back, we could see the Sox dealing away Danks, Quentin and maybe even Alexei to get under the expected budget.

Frater Perdurabo
09-27-2011, 08:57 PM
Call me a kool-aid drinking pollyana, but I think it is not just possible, but likely, that at least two of the three "progress to the mean" of their career norms. In 2012:

I really do expect Rios to hit .280, with 20 homers and 20 steals.

I really do expect Peavy to pitch 170+ innings with an ERA under 4.

I really do expect Dunn to hit .240 with 35 homers.

I think KW re-signs Buehrle, replaces Pierre and Quentin with Viciedo (LF) and DeAza (RF), and otherwise pretty much stands pat other than bench changes (Escobar and Flowers instead of Vizquel and Castro) and bullpen (perhaps Reed instead of Thornton).

guillensdisciple
09-27-2011, 09:22 PM
Make them scouting directors in our farm system.

I figure that that department might be the worst in baseball, and we need to infuse some new blood in there.

central44
09-27-2011, 09:28 PM
Call me a kool-aid drinking pollyana, but I think it is not just possible, but likely, that at least two of the three "progress to the mean" of their career norms. In 2012:

I really do expect Rios to hit .280, with 20 homers and 20 steals.

I really do expect Peavy to pitch 170+ innings with an ERA under 4.

I really do expect Dunn to hit .240 with 35 homers.

I think KW re-signs Buehrle, replaces Pierre and Quentin with Viciedo (LF) and DeAza (RF), and otherwise pretty much stands pat other than bench changes (Escobar and Flowers instead of Vizquel and Castro) and bullpen (perhaps Reed instead of Thornton).

I actually agree with this--except for maybe Peavy. But if Rios and especially Dunn have even a shred of pride in the job they are fortunante enough to do for a living, this season must have been absolute misery for them.

And I would hope--or expect--them to work harder this offseason than they ever have before to be ready to contribute in 2012 the way they were expected to in 2011.

Peavy is the opposite--he needs to calm down a bit! :D:

palehozenychicty
09-27-2011, 09:30 PM
I hope Kenny can do something creative to send Dunn back to the NL. He's a poor fit here. A DH who wants to play the field in order to do well at the plate, but can't play any position adequately. The Sox have a better chance to win with Konerko at 1B and Quentin at DH.

Peavy is not a sure thing. While his doctors think he'll do better next year, this is still a groundbreaking procedure in baseball. Personally, I'd love to see the Sox cut him loose and give Mark his last payday here, but I think we're stuck with him since nobody's trading for damaged goods.

Rios is salvagable, as we saw last year. Take Walker out as hitting coach and he could do well next year, as his whole mental outlook is up or down depending on his hitting.

With all three back, we could see the Sox dealing away Danks, Quentin and maybe even Alexei to get under the expected budget.

It won't happen, and is sort of dumb, but maybe Dunn for Zito? Zito has two years left, Dunn three. We still have Don Cooper as the pitching coach. Giants have Belt, but need a stick. I think Dunn would be better starting in the field for an NL team, even with his terrible glove.

eastchicagosoxfan
09-28-2011, 05:34 AM
Resigning Buehrle is the key in my pie-in-the-sky scenario. If Buehrle is resigned, the Sox have several potential starters. Aside from MB and Peavy, there's Danks, Floyd, Humbler, Stewart and Sale, assuming he's converted to a starter. Pitching might be able to be traded, and Dunn attached, to get that loser out of town. Rios might be a candidate for the bad contract for bad contract type of trade.

kufram
09-28-2011, 06:49 AM
As some others have said there isn't much room for maneuver with these three guys. Bench them if they don't perform? You can't bench regular starters like that because you only have so much bench to work with. That is an unrealistic idea. As expectations are low for next year anyway and there is statistical evidence that all 3 will do better, I think you have to ride them for 2012 in any case. I don't think coaching is the cause of the trouble so I don't see it being the answer. The players have to fix this and I think there is a decent chance that they will.

Salary? I hate to say it but I think MB and TCQ will have to go. I want them both but JR isn't going to sign the deals because I want him to.

There is a problem winning at home that needs to be figured out, whether it be a problem playing well to the field or players being unhappy in Chicago or preparation or something else. Winning at home would go a long way to fixing some problems.

Moses_Scurry
09-28-2011, 06:59 AM
Would you rather trade one of the pitchers and Dunn for crap or keep Dunn, hope he can rebound, and trade a pitcher for a nice prospect package?

eastchicagosoxfan
09-28-2011, 07:18 AM
Would you rather trade one of the pitchers and Dunn for crap or keep Dunn, hope he can rebound, and trade a pitcher for a nice prospect package?
Get rid of Dunn. If a pitcher or two are moved to dump him, but his salary is off the books, it's addition by subtraction.

harwar
09-28-2011, 07:49 AM
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Rios rebound next season .. if Dunn's bat speed really has slowed because of age then there's nothing to do but bite the bullet .. Peavy to me is an enigma .. back in the NL he had a rep as a 7 inning pitcher but he still pitched in a lot of games .. all those years with that delivery caught up to him with age .. that's why Coop immediately changed his delivery when they acquired him, but he was totally ineffective, so they let him pitch the way he always has .. he was a ticking bomb and his body gave out .. i think no one knows what to expect from him except that he will definitely give it all he's got ..

WhiffleBall
09-28-2011, 08:15 AM
Can MLB contracts be restructured? If even one of these players allowed Hahn to get creative with their current contract then the Sox would be in a much better position to compete.

russ99
09-28-2011, 08:38 AM
Can MLB contracts be restructured? If even one of these players allowed Hahn to get creative with their current contract then the Sox would be in a much better position to compete.

Good luck with the MLBPA on that one.

This usually happens either is to defer money to after the player is done playing baseball or to give a contract extension towards the end of a player's career. Both Paul and A.J.'s contracts this winter have these kinds of provisions.

Peavy may be a slight possibility if the Sox want to defer part of next year's salary (and the option year) in a multi-year extension, given the rarity of his surgery. But at this point, I don't see the Sox taking that risk to save a few million.

Dunn and Rios have 3 years left on their contracts and are in their prime years. The only way they take a pay cut is if the Sox buy them out and release them as free agents, and other teams sign them for what they're now worth.

Procol Harum
09-28-2011, 08:50 AM
Hope they play better?

I mean, what else is he supposed to do? I guess he could try and poison them, or maybe take out a kneecap with a crowbar.

Anybody got Tanya Harding and Jeff Gillooly's phone numbers? :redneck

October26
09-28-2011, 08:56 AM
Anybody got Tanya Harding and Jeff Gillooly's phone numbers? :redneck

:kneeslap: Hilarious!

Irishsox1
09-28-2011, 09:51 AM
It's not my money but the Sox would be better off releasing Alex Rios and eating the $38 million dollars than keeping him on the team. I know Dunn sucks and pick your poison with who has the worst contract but I'd rather have Dunn on the bench than Alex Rios anywhere near the team. He's a bad egg.

Moses_Scurry
09-28-2011, 12:39 PM
If the trades of Vernon Wells and Milton Bradley have taught me nothing else, it's that there are always delusional and desperate teams out there who are willing to make a deal. It is just a matter of deciding how much savings is worth paying your guy to play for a different team. Five million? Ten million? Also, are you willing to take some other team's headache in return? Then it becomes a question of which headache you think has a better chance to rebound. Will Dunn or Soriano be better for the next three years? How about Zito?

I have no doubts that there are teams that would take Dunn and Peavy. The problem is that the savings will likely not be very much. Either the Sox will be sending a lot of money with them or the Sox will be taking another horrible contract in return.

Rios, however, sucks eggs in the highest form, and we are stuck with him in my opinion. Fortunately for Toronto, they were able to find a nice sucker to take him off their hands. I hated that deal from the day it happened. I remember Rios's deal being in all of the columns and conversations whenever anybody was talking about the bad contracts in the MLB and specifically the bad contracts for Toronto. I couldn't believe Kenny took his entire contract. If he really wanted Rios, it seems like he could have let him clear waivers and then negotiated a trade that had Toronto picking up at least some of the tab.

Foulke You
09-28-2011, 03:11 PM
Rios, however, sucks eggs in the highest form, and we are stuck with him in my opinion. Fortunately for Toronto, they were able to find a nice sucker to take him off their hands. I hated that deal from the day it happened. I remember Rios's deal being in all of the columns and conversations whenever anybody was talking about the bad contracts in the MLB and specifically the bad contracts for Toronto. I couldn't believe Kenny took his entire contract. If he really wanted Rios, it seems like he could have let him clear waivers and then negotiated a trade that had Toronto picking up at least some of the tab.
If a team was willing to take Vernon Wells, then it is not out of the realm of possibility to work a deal for Rios. Yes, Rios is coming off a terrible year but he is only 1 year removed from a well rounded 2010 season. Also, think about the time when Rios was available. We needed a CF badly and Rios was an all star that was available without giving up any young prospects or players on the 25 man roster. We just had to pony up cash and we were desperate for a productive CF after Anderson failed to develop. I'm not saying it was a good deal to grab Rios because of the size and length of the contract but nobody would be complaining about that money this year if Rios had another year like 2010.

TheVulture
09-28-2011, 03:19 PM
Rios' mechanics at the plate were god awful this year, and I was always left with the impression that the flaws in his swing should be easily corrected yet he never seemed to make any adjustments. How hard could it be to get him to quit moving his hands up and down repeatedly before starting his swing and maybe stand up a little straighter? Perhaps a new batting coach can get him in line.

Dunn I'm afraid is hopeless...

Nellie_Fox
09-28-2011, 04:19 PM
Rios' mechanics at the plate were god awful this year, and I was always left with the impression that the flaws in his swing should be easily corrected yet he never seemed to make any adjustments. How hard could it be to get him to quit moving his hands up and down repeatedly before starting his swing and maybe stand up a little straighter? Perhaps a new batting coach can get him in line.Have you ever done any coaching? It can be very hard. You can't get someone to do something they don't want to do, no matter how clearly you are able to show them why what they are doing isn't working.

asindc
09-28-2011, 04:24 PM
Have you ever done any coaching? It can be very hard. You can't get someone to do something they don't want to do, no matter how clearly you are able to show them why what they are doing isn't working.

Yep, just ask the Cardinals' coaching staff about Rasmus.

Zisk77
09-28-2011, 06:40 PM
If the trades of Vernon Wells and Milton Bradley have taught me nothing else, it's that there are always delusional and desperate teams out there who are willing to make a deal. It is just a matter of deciding how much savings is worth paying your guy to play for a different team. Five million? Ten million? Also, are you willing to take some other team's headache in return? Then it becomes a question of which headache you think has a better chance to rebound. Will Dunn or Soriano be better for the next three years? How about Zito?

I have no doubts that there are teams that would take Dunn and Peavy. The problem is that the savings will likely not be very much. Either the Sox will be sending a lot of money with them or the Sox will be taking another horrible contract in return.

Rios, however, sucks eggs in the highest form, and we are stuck with him in my opinion. Fortunately for Toronto, they were able to find a nice sucker to take him off their hands. I hated that deal from the day it happened. I remember Rios's deal being in all of the columns and conversations whenever anybody was talking about the bad contracts in the MLB and specifically the bad contracts for Toronto. I couldn't believe Kenny took his entire contract. If he really wanted Rios, it seems like he could have let him clear waivers and then negotiated a trade that had Toronto picking up at least some of the tab.


The problem was that the sox feared the tigers would claim Rios... and they probably would have. Instead they got Aubrey Huff.

tstrike2000
09-28-2011, 06:51 PM
The organization could try to knock them out and plant micro digital players in their heads that whisper voices to them, telling them they suck and should retire.

thomas35forever
09-28-2011, 07:20 PM
I don't think there's anything they can do. Just gotta hope they have bounce-back years.

Tragg
09-28-2011, 08:34 PM
Yep, just ask the Cardinals' coaching staff about Rasmus.

What the Blue Jays are doing isn't working either.

Brewski
09-28-2011, 08:47 PM
What odds could I get on a bet that one of them gets moved? Because I think it's going to take place.

Moses_Scurry
09-29-2011, 11:01 AM
The problem was that the sox feared the tigers would claim Rios... and they probably would have. Instead they got Aubrey Huff.

Wouldn't that have been wonderful?

Noneck
09-29-2011, 11:05 AM
What odds could I get on a bet that one of them gets moved? Because I think it's going to take place.

It can happen but will cost the Sox by giving up at least 1 young highly regarded player and cash or taking on another bust in place of one of these.

SI1020
09-29-2011, 11:34 AM
The problem was that the sox feared the tigers would claim Rios... and they probably would have. Instead they got Aubrey Huff. I wish Kenny would have let them.

A. Cavatica
09-29-2011, 12:59 PM
Jaime Navarro was once thought to be untradeable.

The junk-for-junk deal that unloaded Navarro and flash-in-the-pan John Snyder, and brought in Jose Valentin and Cal Eldred, was huge for the Sox and completely turned around their fortunes.

Start thinking up similar ideas.

Bonus points for getting us Carl Crawford just before his career year.

WhiffleBall
09-29-2011, 02:08 PM
Bonus points for getting us Carl Crawford just before his career year.

There is no way to make a Carl Crawford trade work for any team unless the red sox eat an unprecendented amount of money. His salary actually goes up from $14.8mil in 2011 to $20mil in 2012 and then rises a bit each year until 2017 to $21mil. He is owed $25 million more than Rios, Dunn, and Peavy combined!

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/boston-red-sox/carl-crawford/

Remaining contract amounts:

Crawford = 6 years/$121mil
Rios = 3 years/$37mil
Dunn = 3 years/$42 mil
Peavy = 1 year/$17 mil

I could see Peavy being delt by the all star break if he is having a good first half and we are not in contention. Dunn is not going anywhere unless he proves he can hit and/or some GM is an idiot. Rios is our problem unless we eat a ton of salary.

WhiffleBall
09-30-2011, 09:44 AM
Just took a look at Alfonso Soriano's contract and it is actually a decent match up for trading Dunn and Peavy. Soriano is owed $54mil over the next three years. Dunn and Peavy are at $59 million combined for the next three years. Soriano's offensive numbers are OK and actually pretty good against LHP (.271/.312/.500/.812). The Sox would save $5mil over that time period and maybe the Cubs throw in some more money. A healthy Peavy may thrive back in the NL and Dunn could play 1B. That would free up $13mil for next year but cost us more in years 2 and 3 (AS $18mil vs AD $14mil). That should be enough to resign MB and keep Danks (at least for 2012).

It would be a gamble for both sides, as is the case with these types of bad contract swaps. Dunn could return to career norms and fully healed Peavy could thrive again in the NL while Soriano may continue to decline. Then again Peavy might not make it through spring training, Dunn maybe truly done, and Soriano might end up being a great AL DH.

asindc
09-30-2011, 09:48 AM
Just took a look at Alfonso Soriano's contract and it is actually a decent match up for trading Dunn and Peavy. Soriano is owed $54mil over the next three years. Dunn and Peavy are at $59 million combined for the next three years. Soriano's offensive numbers are OK and actually pretty good against LHP (.271/.312/.500/.812). The Sox would save $5mil over that time period and maybe the Cubs throw in some more money. A healthy Peavy may thrive back in the NL and Dunn could play 1B. That would free up $13mil for next year but cost us more in years 2 and 3 (AS $18mil vs AD $14mil). That should be enough to resign MB and keep Danks (at least for 2012).

It would be a gamble for both sides, as is the case with these types of bad contract swaps. Dunn could return to career norms and fully healed Peavy could thrive again in the NL while Soriano may continue to decline. Then again Peavy might not make it through spring training, Dunn maybe truly done, and Soriano might end up being a great AL DH.

Hell no.

Noneck
09-30-2011, 10:03 AM
Just took a look at Alfonso Soriano's contract and it is actually a decent match up for trading Dunn and Peavy. Soriano is owed $54mil over the next three years. Dunn and Peavy are at $59 million combined for the next three years. Soriano's offensive numbers are OK and actually pretty good against LHP (.271/.312/.500/.812). The Sox would save $5mil over that time period and maybe the Cubs throw in some more money. A healthy Peavy may thrive back in the NL and Dunn could play 1B. That would free up $13mil for next year but cost us more in years 2 and 3 (AS $18mil vs AD $14mil). That should be enough to resign MB and keep Danks (at least for 2012).

It would be a gamble for both sides, as is the case with these types of bad contract swaps. Dunn could return to career norms and fully healed Peavy could thrive again in the NL while Soriano may continue to decline. Then again Peavy might not make it through spring training, Dunn maybe truly done, and Soriano might end up being a great AL DH.

I believe Dunn(2012 -14m, 2013-15m, 2015-15m) and Peavy(2012-17m, 2013-22m or 4m buyout which is what will happen) are at 65M. Soriano is at 18m for (2012-2014) or 54m.

It is still an interesting concept.

WhiffleBall
09-30-2011, 10:11 AM
Hell no.

Really? You would take a chance on a possibly washed up Dunn over an acceptably productive (all things considered) Soriano? It just does not look good for Dunn. It's quite possible that he is finished as a professional baseball player. The Sox may end up eating all of his salary if he continues to hit like he did this season. Peavy also has a $4 million buyout for 2013 (or a $22mil club option). So the Sox would be actually be saving $9 million over those three years.

I would love for Dunn and Peavy to bounce back but I don't see it happening with Dunn and Peavy is just too injury prone to rely on for a whole season. Might as well get something rather then end up with nothing. Please prove me wrong Jake and Adam, prove me wrong!

asindc
09-30-2011, 10:15 AM
Really? You would take a chance on a possibly washed up Dunn over an acceptably productive (all things considered) Soriano? It just does not look good for Dunn. It's quite possible that he is finished as a professional baseball player. The Sox may end up eating all of his salary if he continues to hit like he did this season. Peavy also has a $4 million buyout for 2013 (or a $22mil club option). So the Sox would be actually be saving $9 million over those three years.

I would love for Dunn and Peavy to bounce back but I don't see it happening with Dunn and Peavy is just too injury prone to rely on for a whole season. Might as well get something rather then end up with nothing. Please prove me wrong Jake and Adam, prove me wrong!

Soriano is almost as bad defensively as Dunn, and though he doesn't strike out nearly as much, his long swing makes him prone to streaky hitting. Soriano is basically an aging slugger in an aging speed-and-contact-hitter's body. Pass. I'd rather work with Dunn coming off an epic embarassing season and working with a new coaching staff.

Harry Chappas
09-30-2011, 10:59 AM
Soriano is almost as bad defensively as Dunn, and though he doesn't strike out nearly as much, his long swing makes him prone to streaky hitting. Soriano is basically an aging slugger in an aging speed-and-contact-hitter's body. Pass. I'd rather work with Dunn coming off an epic embarassing season and working with a new coaching staff.

I'm afraid Dunn is on the downside of his career. For whatever reason, his bat speed has dropped like a rock. He was completely over-matched by even mediocre power arms. I don't know how a new hitting coach is going to fix that.

I couldn't care less what body-type Soriano has. He was worlds better than Dunn last season and his future is at DH.

asindc
09-30-2011, 11:09 AM
I'm afraid Dunn is on the downside of his career. For whatever reason, his bat speed has dropped like a rock. He was completely over-matched by even mediocre power arms. I don't know how a new hitting coach is going to fix that.

I couldn't care less what body-type Soriano has. He was worlds better than Dunn last season and his future is at DH.

I think conditioning has a lot to do with why Dunn's bat has slowed as he has aged. Though David Ortiz is much, much better than Dunn, the same concerns were raised about him in 2009 and 2010. It's not impossible to increase bat speed as you get older, just a lot more difficult. At any rate, I don't think 35-yr-old Soriano is going to age any better going forward, and he is owed a lot more money.