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View Full Version : Why did this happen with 2 games left?


sox230
09-27-2011, 12:21 AM
I did not hear any member of the media ask the most obvious question: Why did this happen with just two games left in the season as opposed to at the end of the season? This is very very strange.

A. Cavatica
09-27-2011, 12:23 AM
:whocares

The organization has a pulse!

doublem23
09-27-2011, 12:24 AM
I did not hear any member of the media ask the most obvious question: Why did this happen with just two games left in the season as opposed to at the end of the season? This is very very strange.

Not 100% sure, but the most likely reason postulated around here is that it probably relates to Ozzie's demands to know what his fate would be before he leaves for Spain later this week.

ilsox7
09-27-2011, 12:25 AM
Not 100% sure, but the most likely reason postulated around here is that it probably relates to Ozzie's demands to know what his fate would be before he leaves for Spain later this week.

Agreed. He probably wanted to be able to get down to Florida and make it official there before he left. This will allow the Marlins to introduce him this week.

Fenway
09-27-2011, 12:29 AM
Not 100% sure, but the most likely reason postulated around here is that it probably relates to Ozzie's demands to know what his fate would be before he leaves for Spain later this week.

I would not be shocked to see Ozzie in the Florida dugout in the final home game there.

hi im skot
09-27-2011, 12:33 AM
Speculation is the Sox will have a new manager before the world series.

DSpivack
09-27-2011, 12:36 AM
Speculation is the Sox will have a new manager before the world series.

If that's true, that potentially means no Dave Martinez.

MARTINMVP
09-27-2011, 12:39 AM
:whocares

The organization has a pulse!


Though the question is irrelevant at this point, it's still a valid question.

kobo
09-27-2011, 01:01 AM
Karl Ravech on Baseball Tonight said this was supposed to be announced on Thursday and it was leaked today.

GoGoCrede
09-27-2011, 01:05 AM
Karl Ravech on Baseball Tonight said this was supposed to be announced on Thursday and it was leaked today.

The announcement of the announcement leaked today, or the new manager's name? Or Ozzie's departure?

soxfanreggie
09-27-2011, 01:32 AM
Karl Ravech on Baseball Tonight said this was supposed to be announced on Thursday and it was leaked today.

Hmmmm...who spends a lot of time around the Sox organization and has a big mouth, especially when it comes to Twitter...

It wouldn't surprise me if it was someone in the Guillen family leaking it.

russ99
09-27-2011, 08:19 AM
Ozzie met with Jerry today, that's why.

asindc
09-27-2011, 08:40 AM
The announcement of the announcement leaked today, or the new manager's name? Or Ozzie's departure?

I seriously doubt a new manager would be hired this quickly. There is really no need at all to rush that decision.

chisoxfanatic
09-27-2011, 08:41 AM
:whocares

The organization has a pulse!
I wondered why immediately when it happened.

kevingrt
09-27-2011, 08:44 AM
The announcement of the announcement leaked today, or the new manager's name? Or Ozzie's departure?

Well Cowley broke the story and I am almost 99% positive he knew about this story at least a week ago because the Guillen family (Ozzie Jr. and Oney) knew a while ago (as late as Sunday 9/18) . So I don't exactly know why it "broke" last night. Reasons could be because Cowley wanted to break it, they wanted to get a trade done with the Marlins soon, KW has in mind his next manager and wanted Ozzie gone ASAP.

But this is fairly irrelevant at this point.

soxgirl617
09-27-2011, 08:55 AM
While it may technically be irrelevant, since Ozzie is gone regardless, I frankly think it was low class for Ozzie to leave with two games left in the season. This has been a miserable season. The players have to stick around to finish it out, and Ozzie should have done the same. Pretty low, IMHO. I don't really care about media "leaks" or Ozzie's travel plans----it shouldn't have happened until Thursday.

I will always have a place in my heart for Ozzie, but this is a bad way to go out.

asindc
09-27-2011, 08:59 AM
While it may technically be irrelevant, since Ozzie is gone regardless, I frankly think it was low class for Ozzie to leave with two games left in the season. This has been a miserable season. The players have to stick around to finish it out, and Ozzie should have done the same. Pretty low, IMHO. I don't really care about media "leaks" or Ozzie's travel plans----it shouldn't have happened until Thursday.

I will always have a place in my heart for Ozzie, but this is a bad way to go out.

It might not have been his decision.

soxgirl617
09-27-2011, 09:03 AM
It might not have been his decision.

I'm not sure what you mean...do you think the Sox organization wanted it to happen yesterday?

FWIW, I was one of the 2000 or so people at the game last night. There were others grumbling about the same thing I'm unhappy about--bailing on the team---so at least it's not just me. :scratch:

asindc
09-27-2011, 09:09 AM
I'm not sure what you mean...do you think the Sox organization wanted it to happen yesterday?

FWIW, I was one of the 2000 or so people at the game last night. There were others grumbling about the same thing I'm unhappy about--bailing on the team---so at least it's not just me. :scratch:

What I mean is I don't know if Ozzie wanted it to happen yesterday or if JR wanted it to happen yesterday.

soxgirl617
09-27-2011, 09:13 AM
What I mean is I don't know if Ozzie wanted it to happen yesterday or if JR wanted it to happen yesterday.

Interesting. Either way, it's low class IMHO.

Jerko
09-27-2011, 09:21 AM
I don't think leaving two days early is going to make Ozzie look any worse than any of his speeches have for the past month. I'm glad it happened now actually. Maybe the next manager will concentrate on his own team next September. Thank you Marlins for "tampering" or whatever it's called, if you didn't want him we'd be stuck with him next year, and we all heard from his own mouth that would not have been good for anybody. See ya Ozzie.

doublem23
09-27-2011, 09:29 AM
It might not have been his decision.

Unlikely, he was the one who has been chirping for weeks that he didn't want to manage in 2012 without a contract extension. Ozzie essentially just quit on the Sox, as KW noted in the presser last night, he had no plans to change managers this off-season, I guess he was just foolish into thinking that Ozzie would actually be man enough to honor the conditions of the contract that he had signed. I guess the Master of Ozzieball didn't want to have to earn his next payday.

Though, to be honest, I can't blame him for looking for an easy score. It can't be cheap raising a couple of useless, idiot sons.

russ99
09-27-2011, 09:34 AM
Unlikely, he was the one who has been chirping for weeks that he didn't want to manage in 2012 without a contract extension. Ozzie essentially just quit on the Sox, as KW noted in the presser last night, he had no plans to change managers this off-season, I guess he was just foolish into thinking that Ozzie would actually be man enough to honor the conditions of the contract that he had signed. I guess the Master of Ozzieball didn't want to have to earn his next payday.

Though, to be honest, I can't blame him for looking for an easy score. It can't be cheap raising a couple of useless, idiot sons.

Real classy.

This is on the organization for not clarifying things much sooner. Had Ozzie know he'd be back or even the plan for next season, this would have been much smoother. They left him hanging well after others knew they'd be back. They put him in the corner, and he took the only out he had.

The contract extension issue became an issue well after Kenny was told he'd be brought back, and it's obvious the Sox were talking to other manager candidates as early as midseason.

IMO, the organization quit on Ozzie well before he quit on them.

doublem23
09-27-2011, 09:37 AM
Real classy.

This is on the organization for not clarifying things much sooner. Had Ozzie know he'd be back or even the plan for next season, this would have been much smoother. They left him hanging well after others knew they'd be back. They put him in the corner, and he took the only out he had.

The contract extension issue became an issue well after Kenny was told he'd be brought back, and it's obvious the Sox were talking to other manager candidates as early as midseason.

IMO, the organization quit on Ozzie well before he quit on them.

The organization had clarified their thoughts on Ozzie... like in 2009 or whatever, WHEN THEY SIGNED HIM TO A CONTRACT THAT RUNS THROUGH 2012. I don't know how much clearer KW, JR, or anyone in upper management could have been. Ozzie had a job here in 2012.

asindc
09-27-2011, 09:38 AM
Unlikely, he was the one who has been chirping for weeks that he didn't want to manage in 2012 without a contract extension. Ozzie essentially just quit on the Sox, as KW noted in the presser last night, he had no plans to change managers this off-season, I guess he was just foolish into thinking that Ozzie would actually be man enough to honor the conditions of the contract that he had signed. I guess the Master of Ozzieball didn't want to have to earn his next payday.

Though, to be honest, I can't blame him for looking for an easy score. It can't be cheap raising a couple of useless, idiot sons.

I'm not referring to the decision to leave in my post, I'm referring to the decision to leave yesterday as opposed to season's end, as soxgirl617 referred to in her posts.

russ99
09-27-2011, 09:43 AM
The organization had clarified their thoughts on Ozzie... like in 2009 or whatever, WHEN THEY SIGNED HIM TO A CONTRACT THAT RUNS THROUGH 2012. I don't know how much clearer KW, JR, or anyone in upper management could have been. Ozzie had a job here in 2012.

The writing was on the wall and you know it.

IMO they didn't tell Ozzie sooner to limit the media exposure.

Milw
09-27-2011, 09:43 AM
Real classy.

This is on the organization for not clarifying things much sooner. Had Ozzie know he'd be back or even the plan for next season, this would have been much smoother. They left him hanging well after others knew they'd be back. They put him in the corner, and he took the only out he had.

The contract extension issue became an issue well after Kenny was told he'd be brought back, and it's obvious the Sox were talking to other manager candidates as early as midseason.

IMO, the organization quit on Ozzie well before he quit on them.
If a baseball team signed me to a contract to manage them in 2012, I would be operating under the assumption that they wanted me to manage them in 2012. But that's just me.

hawkjt
09-27-2011, 10:03 AM
The writing was on the wall and you know it.

IMO they didn't tell Ozzie sooner to limit the media exposure.

I supported Ozzie but this is just wrong. Ozzie was under contract for another year,and until he started bringing it up,no one even considered him leaving early.

I was watching the Red Sox- O's game last nite on NESN and the Ozzie deal flashed and they were under the impression that Ozzie was not signed beyond this year. They wondered out loud why the Marlins would have to give compensation to the Sox...then when informed that Ozzie had another year,they were surprised, because they wondered why Ozzie was complaining about his contract in September when he had another year.

Ozzie broke baseball protocol by bitching about his contract when the Sox were on a 5 game winning streak,only 3 back of the Tigers,in early September....no one that wants to return would do that.

I thank Ozzie for the good years, but he forced this day,starting back when he got angry about his kid not being drafted.
I really think it was his family that did him in. They ruined him here in Chicago.

doublem23
09-27-2011, 10:04 AM
If a baseball team signed me to a contract to manage them in 2012, I would be operating under the assumption that they wanted me to manage them in 2012. But that's just me.

I think we also know that had Buehrle, Danks, Quentin, etc. openly talked about wanting a new deal during the stretch run of the season, when the Sox's chances were still ever so slightly alive, Ozzie would have absolutely shredded them publicly for not having any respect for the game and bla, bla, bla.

Rocky Soprano
09-27-2011, 10:21 AM
The writing was on the wall and you know it.

IMO they didn't tell Ozzie sooner to limit the media exposure.

The media exposure that Ozzie himself created?
There was no reason why he could not wait until the season was over to make his demands, no matter how stupid they were.

Ozzie wanted to go to Florida, the writing was on the wall and you know it.

Ozzie quit. For someone that "preaches" about respecting the game all the time, he sure doesn't act like he does. I wonder if he peed on the WS monument on his way out...

Lip Man 1
09-27-2011, 11:05 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-paid-to-lead-the-sox-guillen-quits-20110926,0,3561864.column

Lip

Rocky Soprano
09-27-2011, 11:17 AM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/rosenblog/chi-paid-to-lead-the-sox-guillen-quits-20110926,0,3561864.column

Lip

What a great article!

Jerko
09-27-2011, 12:10 PM
Haugh actually had a good one too.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0927-haugh-ozzie-chicago--20110927,0,4241110.column

Nellie_Fox
09-27-2011, 12:33 PM
Real classy.

This is on the organization for not clarifying things much sooner. Had Ozzie know he'd be back or even the plan for next season, this would have been much smoother. They left him hanging well after others knew they'd be back. They put him in the corner, and he took the only out he had.

The contract extension issue became an issue well after Kenny was told he'd be brought back, and it's obvious the Sox were talking to other manager candidates as early as midseason.

IMO, the organization quit on Ozzie well before he quit on them.I've got to disagree with you on this. I thought the correct thing for Ozzie to do when asked about his contract status would have been to say "we've been terrible this year. I'd like to come back on the remaining year of my contract to prove I can turn it around. If I do, the contract situation will take care of itself. If I don't, well, managers come and go. If we have another bad year, I'll expect to be gone."

GoGoCrede
09-27-2011, 12:35 PM
I've got to disagree with you on this. I thought the correct thing for Ozzie to do when asked about his contract status would have been to say "we've been terrible this year. I'd like to come back on the remaining year of my contract to prove I can turn it around. If I do, the contract situation will take care of itself. If I don't, well, managers come and go. If we have another bad year, I'll expect to be gone."

He did say something kind of close to that. He said he hadn't earned his contract next year during the press conference.

Nellie_Fox
09-27-2011, 12:42 PM
He did say something kind of close to that. He said he hadn't earned his contract next year during the press conference.But that's not what he was saying leading up to the split. He forced the White Sox' hand.

JB98
09-27-2011, 01:58 PM
The organization had clarified their thoughts on Ozzie... like in 2009 or whatever, WHEN THEY SIGNED HIM TO A CONTRACT THAT RUNS THROUGH 2012. I don't know how much clearer KW, JR, or anyone in upper management could have been. Ozzie had a job here in 2012.

I agree. The Sox didn't have to pick up Ozzie's option for 2012 at Sox Fest in January. They did, and they showed a commitment to him by doing so. How did Ozzie reward JR and KW? He checked out of this season early and set up his next gig with the Marlins. It's ridiculous.

asindc
09-27-2011, 03:06 PM
Tim Kirchen (sp?) was just on the Scott Van Pelt show on ESPN Radio. He said that he was told by a Sox FO official that the team had planned to announce this on Thursday, but since it was leaked they figured they might as well do it yesterday. He also said that a player had earlier in the season told him that they (the players) sometimes spent more time talking about Ozzie and KW than about the game.

doublem23
09-27-2011, 03:14 PM
I agree. The Sox didn't have to pick up Ozzie's option for 2012 at Sox Fest in January. They did, and they showed a commitment to him by doing so. How did Ozzie reward JR and KW? He checked out of this season early and set up his next gig with the Marlins. It's ridiculous.

Yeah, if you think Ozzie is just a good manager and he should be here because he gives the Sox the best chance to win in 2012 and beyond, that's fine, that's a personal opinion which, although I personally disagree with, I at least respect.

But let's not go around pretending like he's some kind of martyr or he was treated unfairly by the Sox. He stabbed this team right in the back and just mailed in this season. Many of us have noticed that Ozzie's managerial style seemed noticeably worse this year. Looks like we all know why.

russ99
09-27-2011, 04:33 PM
I agree. The Sox didn't have to pick up Ozzie's option for 2012 at Sox Fest in January. They did, and they showed a commitment to him by doing so. How did Ozzie reward JR and KW? He checked out of this season early and set up his next gig with the Marlins. It's ridiculous.

The picked up his option then and gave him security for 2011. They refused to do so now. How else can this be better spelled out?

He stabbed this team right in the back and just mailed in this season. Many of us have noticed that Ozzie's managerial style seemed noticeably worse this year. Looks like we all know why.

Just what is the point here? Ozzie's gone. You got your wish.

Milw
09-27-2011, 04:34 PM
The picked up his option then and gave him security for 2011. They refused to do so now. How else can this be spelled out?

Anyway what is the point here? Ozzie's gone. You got your wish.
They didn't need to do it the first time. He made unnecessary demands in consecutive years--the second year being at a particularly inopportune time, in the middle of a pennant race--and yet somehow that's the organization's fault. Gotcha.

NardiWasHere
09-27-2011, 04:47 PM
The picked up his option then and gave him security for 2011. They refused to do so now. How else can this be better spelled out?



Just what is the point here? Ozzie's gone. You got your wish.

This is absurd. He needs at least 2 years of security at all times? If his contract is less than 2 years from expiring (during a disappointing season), it isn't good enough?

Nellie_Fox
09-27-2011, 04:48 PM
This is absurd. He needs at least 2 years of security at all times? If his contract is less than 2 years from expiring (during a disappointing season), it isn't good enough?Walter Alston managed the Dodgers for 23 years on one-year contracts.

tstrike2000
09-27-2011, 05:33 PM
The picked up his option then and gave him security for 2011. They refused to do so now. How else can this be better spelled out?

If you watched Ozzie's press conference last night, he mentioned early on that in his meeting yesterday with Jerry, Ozzie even agreed that he didn't deserve to be back in 2012. Not only because of his poor job, but the team's poor play. Of course, that goes against Ozzie leaving because he didn't get the extension he wanted. Bottom line is, either way, he didn't deserve to be back and I don't think he truly wanted to be back, anyway.

kittle42
09-27-2011, 05:35 PM
Walter Alston managed the Dodgers for 23 years on one-year contracts.

I wonder how he lived with himself while his employer smacked him in the face with lack of respect for 23 seasons.

voodoochile
09-27-2011, 06:12 PM
Yeah, if you think Ozzie is just a good manager and he should be here because he gives the Sox the best chance to win in 2012 and beyond, that's fine, that's a personal opinion which, although I personally disagree with, I at least respect.

But let's not go around pretending like he's some kind of martyr or he was treated unfairly by the Sox. He stabbed this team right in the back and just mailed in this season. Many of us have noticed that Ozzie's managerial style seemed noticeably worse this year. Looks like we all know why.

Bull...

****...

kittle42
09-27-2011, 06:37 PM
Bull...

****...

I agree with voodoo. I find it extremely hard to believe the man either didn't care or was tanking games or was managing to make Williams look bad on purpose.

Jerko
09-27-2011, 06:49 PM
I agree with voodoo. I find it extremely hard to believe the man either didn't care or was tanking games or was managing to make Williams look bad on purpose.

If he wasn't tanking games, which I don't think he was, then imo he had one of the worst seasons by a manager I've ever seen. Either way he had to go. Like the guy DiNiro fired in Casino for watching 3 machines get hit in a row.

russ99
09-27-2011, 06:54 PM
I agree with voodoo. I find it extremely hard to believe the man either didn't care or was tanking games or was managing to make Williams look bad on purpose.

That is such BS. Many of our players flat our stank.

Please tell me what move our GM made this season to have the results be any different once we knew that many of our players were having subpar years.

I guess it's not enough for some of you that the man's not the Sox manager any more.

You need to tear him down even after the fact to make your twisted point of view seem more sane.

kittle42
09-27-2011, 07:31 PM
That is such BS. Many of our players flat our stank.

Please tell me what move our GM made this season to have the results be any different once we knew that many of our players were having subpar years.

I guess it's not enough for some of you that the man's not the Sox manager any more.

You need to tear him down even after the fact to make your twisted point of view seem more sane.

Did I not just say I felt there was no way he was tanking games or any of that nonsense? He was simply a bad manager the last two seasons (with a crappy club at least this season), and really longer than that.

Twisted, I say!

TomBradley72
09-27-2011, 07:43 PM
Bottom line is, either way, he didn't deserve to be back and I don't think he truly wanted to be back, anyway.

No he didn't- once the monkey is done throwing feces all over the cage- he has to leave so the zookeeper can come in and clean it up.

Ozzie was a pretty solid manager for most of his tenure- but this year? Just a guy throwing **** all over his cage and demanding attention- a very disappointing end to an overall great career as a player and a manager with the White Sox.

JB98
09-27-2011, 08:31 PM
I agree with voodoo. I find it extremely hard to believe the man either didn't care or was tanking games or was managing to make Williams look bad on purpose.

I don't know whether he was tanking games or not. What is known is that he did a horse**** job with this year's team. It was so bad, in fact, that some actually believe he did tank games intentionally.

Lip Man 1
09-27-2011, 08:40 PM
I would sincerely hope Ozzie gave it his best effort. He's the only one that knows for sure though.

Lip

central44
09-27-2011, 09:24 PM
I don't know whether he was tanking games or not. What is known is that he did a horse**** job with this year's team. It was so bad, in fact, that some actually believe he did tank games intentionally.

Yup.

We all know Ozzie is capable of being a better manager than he showed this year. But it felt like he checked out back in May. Konerko himself said it seemed like Ozzie was burned out on it, and it would explain the constant nonsensical lineup/pinch hitting/bullpen use/bunting decisions.

Lets face it, to be good at this job you need to be able to adapt to situations and what you have. Calling for Alexei to bunt constantly when the only purpose it serves is taking the bat out of your best hitters hands, isn't adapting. It's making the same asinine decisions over and over again.

I don't think Ozzie tanked games, but it didn't feel like he really cared much, either. Its funny to hear that Konerko said he was burned out on managing the Sox, because that's what it seemed like to me, too. I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie goes to Florida and does really well there next season with a fresh start and a change of scenery--and in fact, I hope he does.

It's just clear that it was time for a change, both for Ozzie and for the White Sox. It's a shame it ended this way, but it is what it is.

A. Cavatica
09-27-2011, 09:25 PM
I would sincerely hope Ozzie gave it his best effort. He's the only one that knows for sure though.

Lip

It's pretty incriminating that we often couldn't tell the difference between "Ozzie being Ozzie" and "Ozzie trying to lose and get fired".

Frater Perdurabo
09-27-2011, 09:30 PM
I don't know whether he was tanking games or not. What is known is that he did a horse**** job with this year's team. It was so bad, in fact, that some actually believe he did tank games intentionally.

Agreed.

Also, all accounts point to Ozzie accepting - or at least not doing anything to discourage - the "tampering" overtures from the Marlins, while still under contract with the Sox.

All accounts also point to him asking to be relieved of his contract. That's quitting.

Vernam
09-27-2011, 11:05 PM
It's pretty incriminating that we often couldn't tell the difference between "Ozzie being Ozzie" and "Ozzie trying to lose and get fired".

Sad, funny, and totally true. Not only did Konerko point out the manager's lethargy, hell, even Hawk did last night on CSN. I think calling it lethargy is very, very charitable.

The fondness for Ozzie within the organization seems real. It's like they've been indulging him, just like he indulges his son Fredo. Now the sense of betrayal seems just as real. I think a lot of people there are biting their tongues because they just want all this in the past, and the safest way to get there is not to point out the obvious: Ozzie quit on them a long time ago and in particular used the man who he professed to love like a father.

Last night Ozzie said he and Jerry Reinsdorf will always be friends. It's probably true. But JR is way, way too smart not to see this for exactly what it was. He may still love Ozzie, exactly like a dad who knows his kid is a user but can't help remembering when there was hope that wasn't how he'd turn out.

Vernam

Lip Man 1
09-27-2011, 11:23 PM
Vernam:

Tonight Van Dyke is quoting sources with the Sox in a story as saying Ozzie's "distractions" became an issue with the team this year. Quotes someone close to Ozzie as saying, it wouldn't have worked if he returned in 2012.

If true you wonder how much and how many games were lost because of it.

Lip

russ99
09-27-2011, 11:33 PM
constant nonsensical lineup/pinch hitting/bullpen use/bunting decisions.

Lets face it, to be good at this job you need to be able to adapt to situations and what you have. Calling for Alexei to bunt constantly when the only purpose it serves is taking the bat out of your best hitters hands, isn't adapting. It's making the same asinine decisions over and over again.


Funny. Alexei dropped down a bunt today with no outs and a man on second, and then missed it. And Dunn was in the lineup too. I guess Don Cooper is asinine.

The laying out of blame for things managers do in the course of their jobs only goes so far. But if the same things happen under different managers, is it then asinine?

You can bet the next manager will bunt (even with Alexei) will play for one run in situations, will stick to a plan when filling out the lineup card, won't cater to the fans' ridiculous whims. Let's see how the fans react then. Let's see how much rope they're willing to give the new guy.

Milw
09-27-2011, 11:38 PM
I agree with voodoo. I find it extremely hard to believe the man either didn't care or was tanking games or was managing to make Williams look bad on purpose.
It's a stretch to believe that Guillen was tanking games.

It's not at all a stretch to believe that his mind was not 100% on the White Sox. In fact, we know for a fact that it wasn't. Whether he started planning his exit before or after the Sox were eliminated, we don't now... but frankly, it's irrelevant.

Milw
09-27-2011, 11:41 PM
That is such BS. Many of our players flat our stank.

Please tell me what move our GM made this season to have the results be any different once we knew that many of our players were having subpar years.

I guess it's not enough for some of you that the man's not the Sox manager any more.

You need to tear him down even after the fact to make your twisted point of view seem more sane.
I'm only half-kidding in asking this: Are you related to Ozzie? Because I've heard of apologists, but this is something on a whole other level of blind devotion.

TommyJohn
09-27-2011, 11:46 PM
Tanking games? Are some of us sinking THAT low? We're better than this...aren't we?

Vernam
09-28-2011, 12:30 AM
Tanking games? Are some of us sinking THAT low? We're better than this...aren't we?

For me, it's "game," singular. I know what I saw on August 31, and I'm far from the only one who found it inexplicable.

Vernam

Rocky Soprano
09-28-2011, 01:00 AM
Funny. Alexei dropped down a bunt today with no outs and a man on second, and then missed it. And Dunn was in the lineup too. I guess Don Cooper is asinine.

The laying out of blame for things managers do in the course of their jobs only goes so far. But if the same things happen under different managers, is it then asinine?

You can bet the next manager will bunt (even with Alexei) will play for one run in situations, will stick to a plan when filling out the lineup card, won't cater to the fans' ridiculous whims. Let's see how the fans react then. Let's see how much rope they're willing to give the new guy.

Hopefully the next manager actually teaches fundamentals and makes the players execute them in spring training so that they can lay down a bunt!

Jerko
09-28-2011, 05:42 AM
For me, it's "game," singular. I know what I saw on August 31, and I'm far from the only one who found it inexplicable.

Vernam

That's the day I officially gave up.

Milw
09-28-2011, 07:59 AM
For me, it's "game," singular. I know what I saw on August 31, and I'm far from the only one who found it inexplicable.

Vernam
Agreed. Inexplicable is a great word. I don't think he was trying to lose, but it sure didn't seem like he was trying to win.

JC456
09-28-2011, 10:05 AM
Though the question is irrelevant at this point, it's still a valid question.
Why? It has no relevancy to anything the Sox do from yesterday moving forward. You, just want to know because you must be nosy or you want some reason to bash the Sox management.

It happened and life goes on! You need to move forward my friend and don't let little things outside your control bother you.

JC456
09-28-2011, 10:13 AM
Yup.

We all know Ozzie is capable of being a better manager than he showed this year. But it felt like he checked out back in May. Konerko himself said it seemed like Ozzie was burned out on it, and it would explain the constant nonsensical lineup/pinch hitting/bullpen use/bunting decisions.

Lets face it, to be good at this job you need to be able to adapt to situations and what you have. Calling for Alexei to bunt constantly when the only purpose it serves is taking the bat out of your best hitters hands, isn't adapting. It's making the same asinine decisions over and over again.

I don't think Ozzie tanked games, but it didn't feel like he really cared much, either. Its funny to hear that Konerko said he was burned out on managing the Sox, because that's what it seemed like to me, too. I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie goes to Florida and does really well there next season with a fresh start and a change of scenery--and in fact, I hope he does.

It's just clear that it was time for a change, both for Ozzie and for the White Sox. It's a shame it ended this way, but it is what it is.
Sorry, but Alexei best hitter? You're kidding right? He may have some talent, but best hitter honors belong to a man named Konerko! The next best hitter still isn't Ramirez, not sure who, but not him. Cuckoo

In fact, I hope Ramirez goes with Ozzie to Florida. He's wore out his welcome for this Sox fan! I watched him again last night in the first inning give up on a pop up down the left field line and then laughed like it was funny. When my wife comments on his lack of interest in the game, that is telling to me! bye bye Alexei enjoy Florida, pleaseeeeeeee!

kittle42
09-28-2011, 10:31 AM
You can bet the next manager will bunt (even with Alexei) will play for one run in situations, will stick to a plan when filling out the lineup card, won't cater to the fans' ridiculous whims. Let's see how the fans react then. Let's see how much rope they're willing to give the new guy.

Keep clinging to it. It's amusing.

kittle42
09-28-2011, 10:32 AM
Sorry, but Alexei best hitter? You're kidding right? He may have some talent, but best hitter honors belong to a man named Konerko! The next best hitter still isn't Ramirez, not sure who, but not him. Cuckoo

He meant taking the bat out of the hands of the man behind Ramirez in the lineup, who would get intentionally walked.

Cuckoo.

russ99
09-28-2011, 12:25 PM
Keep clinging to it. It's amusing.

Keep thinking that what Ozzie did is something that other managers won't or don't do. It's amusing.

JC456
09-28-2011, 01:27 PM
He meant taking the bat out of the hands of the man behind Ramirez in the lineup, who would get intentionally walked.

Cuckoo.
Well I didn't read into it that. Ok. so now you don't want to move a runner into scoring position or up to be able to score on a fly ball for the best hitter in the line up, Konerko? Still doesn't make any sense.

Ramirez would never give his ownself up to hit the ball the opposite way to move the runners over. Isn't in his game plan! he still neeeds to leave with Ozzie!