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Lip Man 1
09-23-2011, 08:00 PM
Typically close to the vest in his comments:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-sox-gm-williams-no-need-to-rush-meeting-with-guillen-20110923,0,2605712.story

Lip

all*star quentin
09-23-2011, 08:34 PM
"Ozzie's got some ideas he's still developing." Hope that means he's taking new job offers!

all*star quentin
09-23-2011, 09:52 PM
More in this article from Sahadev Sharma.

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/white-sox/post/_/id/7820/williams-hopes-to-skip-media-circus?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

EDIT:
Anthony Castrovince: Ozzie awaits his fate

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110922&content_id=25072168&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

Lip Man 1
09-23-2011, 10:17 PM
It's going to be up to JR anyway. It's clear Kenny does not have a lot of authority to hire or fire field managers or coaches so his comment about (paraphrasing) 'not wanting to change course or direction easily' carries no weight.

If JR says Ozzie's gone, he's gone. End of discussion.

Lip

DirtySox
09-23-2011, 10:21 PM
Good. Squeeze something out of Miami for him. No hurry.

captain54
09-23-2011, 11:12 PM
"not wanting to change course or direction easily"

The product on the field has been near mediocre for going on 6 yrs now and attendance is in danger of dropping to new lows.

Right, Kenny...no need to change course.

doublem23
09-24-2011, 01:30 AM
"not wanting to change course or direction easily"

The product on the field has been near mediocre for going on 6 yrs now and attendance is in danger of dropping to new lows.

Right, Kenny...no need to change course.

New lows? The Sox are going to come close to 2 million through the gate again this year, do you even remember the late 90s or early 2000s? We're still up easily... easily by 1/2 a million people, all of this, again mind you, with one of the most expensive tickets in baseball.

I know we're all frustrated and I get that, but at least have enough respect for this board to take like... 5 seconds to research what you're going to write.

captain54
09-24-2011, 02:33 AM
do you even remember the late 90s or early 2000s? I know we're all frustrated and I get that, but at least have enough respect for this board to take like... 5 seconds to research what you're going to write.

Attendance has dropped every year for the 6th yr... I don't know what your definition is of a new low, but that's mine, pal.

And yes, I remember the late 90's and early 2000's....and the late 80's...

and late 60's and early 70's.... before you were born I'm sure...

so anything White Sox you wanna ask me, go ahead...I'd be happy to school ya

TomBradley72
09-24-2011, 02:42 AM
New lows? The Sox are going to come close to 2 million through the gate again this year, do you even remember the late 90s or early 2000s? We're still up easily... easily by 1/2 a million people, all of this, again mind you, with one of the most expensive tickets in baseball.

I know we're all frustrated and I get that, but at least have enough respect for this board to take like... 5 seconds to research what you're going to write.

Teal?

This is one of the worst,most disappointing season's in the franchise's history- the payrolls and expectations of the late 90's and early 2000's were much lower- by a long shot- and did not include shouting matches between the GM + Manager + Hitting Coach along with $45M in wasted contracts and multiple instances of players not hustling- 2011 IS/WAS one of the low points in our history.

KW/JR should be announcing Ozzie is leaving by Tuesday night- so he can say his farewells Wednesday and move on. Anything else that delays this move is ridiculous.

Thank God for the Brewers.

palehozenychicty
09-24-2011, 02:53 AM
The bottom line is that JR calls the shots. Now we understand clearly why KW's teams have crumbled in the second half, only making the playoffs twice in his helm. I think he is good at finding diamonds out of the rough, but strikes out on the better available players because his hands are tied. It's no good.

It seems like the more money the team has spent, and on deeply flawed players, the less consistent they have played since 2005. The team lacks an identity right now. The starters are good, but not great. The position players don't have one member that the opposition fears. A few are deeply respected and attended All-Star games. But teams throw at us and by our bats.

The high price of tickets also doesn't make sense when the play has been mediocre consistently. A reduction is in order.

captain54
09-24-2011, 03:19 AM
Teal?

This is one of the worst,most disappointing season's in the franchise's history-.

Some attendance numbers to paint a somewhat disturbing picture:

2011 Average Home Attendance ...

White Sox - 24,871
Nationals - 24, 533
Pirates - 24, 034

The White Sox have only outdraw the Nationals by about 300 fans/game, the Pirates by about 700 fans/game... The frikkin Nationals and Pirates

Since 06', Sox home attendance has dropped an average of about 2M-3M fans/yr.. at that rate, and given the disappointment and fan frustration with 2011, the Sox are in danger of dropping fairly close to the 20M fans/yr mark, which would put them ( based upon 11' rankings) among the bottom 3 or 4 teams in MLB in home attendance.

russ99
09-24-2011, 09:04 AM
Teal?

This is one of the worst,most disappointing season's in the franchise's history- the payrolls and expectations of the late 90's and early 2000's were much lower- by a long shot- and did not include shouting matches between the GM + Manager + Hitting Coach along with $45M in wasted contracts and multiple instances of players not hustling- 2011 IS/WAS one of the low points in our history.

KW/JR should be announcing Ozzie is leaving by Tuesday night- so he can say his farewells Wednesday and move on. Anything else that delays this move is ridiculous.

Thank God for the Brewers.

If you're such a frontrunner, then go watch the Brewers.

Real Sox fans can take a season like this in stride, like so many others we've seen, especially the ones before 2000.

BTW - 2007 comes to mind as much worse that this year since we were obviously done and playing out the string before the end of May. This year was much more frustrating, but at least we had a chance until the Tigers series, and the players let us down.

And if your expectations were much higher that what was to be expected from essentially the same roster as last year with Dunn added (who not only never DH'ed before but was previously openly hostile to the idea) than you're delusional.

2011 was a disappointment but not a disaster. Let's see what the Sox do to fix things for 2012.

dickallen15
09-24-2011, 09:14 AM
Attendance has dropped every year for the 6th yr... I don't know what your definition is of a new low, but that's mine, pal.

And yes, I remember the late 90's and early 2000's....and the late 80's...

and late 60's and early 70's.... before you were born I'm sure...

so anything White Sox you wanna ask me, go ahead...I'd be happy to school ya

So this is lower than when the Sox played home games in Milwaukee. Lower than when Veeck saved them from being moved? Lower than the Don Gutteridge era? Lower than 1968-70 when they averaged 7500 fans per game in 68, 6600 in 70 and 6100 in 1970 before skyrocking to 10,000 a game in 1971?

Dan H
09-24-2011, 10:03 AM
This season is not the worst in Sox history by any means. Sometimes it seems that way with all the expectations we had. And those last six games against the Tigers were downright embarrassing. Still not the worst because I remember the 106-loss 1970 season very well.

But to try to laugh this season off as a bump in the road is another act of denial. We cannot expect Dunn, Rios, and Peavy to bonce back next year and make everything okay.

Real changes need to be made or things will not only bode ill for 2012 but for years after that.

Nelfox02
09-24-2011, 10:10 AM
If you're such a frontrunner, then go watch the Brewers.

Real Sox fans can take a season like this in stride, like so many others we've seen, especially the ones before 2000.

BTW - 2007 comes to mind as much worse that this year since we were obviously done and playing out the string before the end of May. This year was much more frustrating, but at least we had a chance until the Tigers series, and the players let us down.

And if your expectations were much higher that what was to be expected from essentially the same roster as last year with Dunn added (who not only never DH'ed before but was previously openly hostile to the idea) than you're delusional.

2011 was a disappointment but not a disaster. Let's see what the Sox do to fix things for 2012.


Excellent point

dickallen15
09-24-2011, 10:13 AM
If you're such a frontrunner, then go watch the Brewers.

Real Sox fans can take a season like this in stride, like so many others we've seen, especially the ones before 2000.

BTW - 2007 comes to mind as much worse that this year since we were obviously done and playing out the string before the end of May. This year was much more frustrating, but at least we had a chance until the Tigers series, and the players let us down.

And if your expectations were much higher that what was to be expected from essentially the same roster as last year with Dunn added (who not only never DH'ed before but was previously openly hostile to the idea) than you're delusional.

2011 was a disappointment but not a disaster. Let's see what the Sox do to fix things for 2012.

Considering you thought the Sox would win 92 and the division, I guess you are calling yourself delusional. In case you forgot here's your predictions and it looks like you were expecting a lot from KW acquisions Dunn, Rios and Jackson:

Team Stats

Wins: 92

Division Placement: First

Post-Season Success: Lose in ALCS

Batting Leader Predictions

Batting Average: Rios

Homers: Dunn

RBI: Konerko

OPS: Dunn

Steals: Pierre

Walks: Dunn

SO: Dunn

Pitching Leader Predictions

Wins: Jackson

Saves: Thornton

SO: Jackson

ERA: Danks

Walks: Floyd

Losses: Buehrle

Rocky Soprano
09-24-2011, 10:35 AM
Considering you thought the Sox would win 92 and the division, I guess you are calling yourself delusional. In case you forgot here's your predictions and it looks like you were expecting a lot from KW acquisions Dunn, Rios and Jackson:

Team Stats

Wins: 92

Division Placement: First

Post-Season Success: Lose in ALCS

Batting Leader Predictions

Batting Average: Rios

Homers: Dunn

RBI: Konerko

OPS: Dunn

Steals: Pierre

Walks: Dunn

SO: Dunn

Pitching Leader Predictions

Wins: Jackson

Saves: Thornton

SO: Jackson

ERA: Danks

Walks: Floyd

Losses: Buehrle

:roflmao:

Talk about getting smacked with your own argument.

A. Cavatica
09-24-2011, 10:35 AM
Real Sox fans can take a season like this in stride, like so many others we've seen, especially the ones before 2000.

That is utterly ridiculous. You're comparing our 2011 to Boston's 2011? Boston is going to the playoffs; their fans are enduring what we did in August/September 2005, when we almost-but-not-quite-coughed it up. And Boston has two WS titles and four other playoff appearances in the last decade, despite playing in baseball's toughest division. They are not about to post their third losing season in the last five. If the Red Sox were performing as badly as the White Sox, heads would roll.

Rocky Soprano
09-24-2011, 10:37 AM
That is utterly ridiculous. You're comparing our 2011 to Boston's 2011? Boston is going to the playoffs; their fans are enduring what we did in August/September 2005, when we almost-but-not-quite-coughed it up. And Boston has two WS titles and four other playoff appearances in the last decade, despite playing in baseball's toughest division. They are not about to post their third losing season in the last five. If the Red Sox were performing as badly as the White Sox, heads would roll.

I made the same mistake when I first read it. He is saying Real Sox fans not Red Sox fans.

A. Cavatica
09-24-2011, 10:43 AM
I made the same mistake when I first read it. He is saying Real Sox fans not Red Sox fans.

Oops. :D: The a and l blur together into a d when you haven't had your coffee yet.

nsolo
09-24-2011, 10:48 AM
I don't post that often, but I usually check in on a regular basis to read what has been posted.

My disappointment for this season is tempered by my guilt of drinking the Sox promotional departments kool-aid of being "all in". One saving grace is that I was against the Dunn deal from the start.

I've been a Sox fan for over 50 years, so I've seen some REALLY bad years. Some worse that this one, none as frustrating. The teams failure at almost every level, both on and off the field is heartbreaking. The whole organization seems to be in a shambles.

The need for change is paramount. And if JR doesn't realize that, including changing his philosophy on how he delegates authority, I'm afraid we are doomed for several years to come.

I can't remember which of us stated it, but I agree with the statement that this team has no identity. Kenny seems to be a kid in a candy store when it comes to bringing talent, or lack or it, to the team. He's simply got to have the current big names out there with no consideration to monetary or prospects loss. He's always all in no matter the risk.

Ozzie's act has worn thin on me, and I don't have to live with him day in and out. Imagine the effect of the players. His managerial abilities are questionable at best, with the distinct possibility that he has managed against the teams best interests to spite his GM. Yet if Ozzie deserves to go, so does Kenny for his bonehead moves and lack of tack with former players, the media and fans.

It really bothers me though that we as fans are now, as evidenced by posts within this thread, as now arguing among ourselves. That really blows.

kittle42
09-24-2011, 11:18 AM
Considering you thought the Sox would win 92 and the division, I guess you are calling yourself delusional. In case you forgot here's your predictions and it looks like you were expecting a lot from KW acquisions Dunn, Rios and Jackson:

Team Stats

Wins: 92

Division Placement: First

Post-Season Success: Lose in ALCS

I absolutely love this post.

cards press box
09-24-2011, 11:47 AM
Good. Squeeze something out of Miami for him. No hurry.

Logan Morrison? Perhaps to include Morrison in the deal, the overall transaction would have to be expanded.

Lip Man 1
09-24-2011, 11:49 AM
The only reason I can think of for JR not making any significant changes to the folks running the show this off season is because he simply doesn't want to deal with having to interview and hire potentially a GM and / or a field manager.

Maybe because of his age, maybe because he feels in a few years it won't matter anyway.

Lip

TomBradley72
09-24-2011, 01:21 PM
If you're such a frontrunner, then go watch the Brewers.

Real Sox fans can take a season like this in stride, like so many others we've seen, especially the ones before 2000.

BTW - 2007 comes to mind as much worse that this year since we were obviously done and playing out the string before the end of May. This year was much more frustrating, but at least we had a chance until the Tigers series, and the players let us down.

And if your expectations were much higher that what was to be expected from essentially the same roster as last year with Dunn added (who not only never DH'ed before but was previously openly hostile to the idea) than you're delusional.

2011 was a disappointment but not a disaster. Let's see what the Sox do to fix things for 2012.

Yep- been a fan for 40 years- I'm a real front runner.

I completely disagree with your assessment- the 2007 Opening Day line up included Erstad in CF and Ozuna in LF and Crede with a questionable back- with the Tigers coming off a World Series appearance- I've followed this team very closely for 40 years- I think this season was by far the most disappointing- the players, the manager, the GM- all failed miserably.

TomBradley72
09-24-2011, 01:24 PM
Considering you thought the Sox would win 92 and the division, I guess you are calling yourself delusional. In case you forgot here's your predictions and it looks like you were expecting a lot from KW acquisions Dunn, Rios and Jackson:

Team Stats

Wins: 92

Division Placement: First

Post-Season Success: Lose in ALCS

Batting Leader Predictions

Batting Average: Rios

Homers: Dunn

RBI: Konerko

OPS: Dunn

Steals: Pierre

Walks: Dunn

SO: Dunn

Pitching Leader Predictions

Wins: Jackson

Saves: Thornton

SO: Jackson

ERA: Danks

Walks: Floyd

Losses: Buehrle

:clap::clap::clap:

captain54
09-24-2011, 01:49 PM
So this is lower than when the Sox played home games in Milwaukee. Lower than when Veeck saved them from being moved? Lower than the Don Gutteridge era? Lower than 1968-70 when they averaged 7500 fans per game in 68, 6600 in 70 and 6100 in 1970 before skyrocking to 10,000 a game in 1971?

I never said the "new low" was in the same category as the late 60's..

My definition of "new low" is the window of 6 yrs after the WS of 05'..
It's gone lower and lower, to a "new low"

Sorry if my wording wasn't clear....my bad

Hitmen77
09-24-2011, 01:54 PM
I absolutely love this post.

He'll simply dismiss this with a reply calling anyone unhappy with Ozzie "ridiculous" or a "hater".

October26
09-24-2011, 02:36 PM
I don't post that often, but I usually check in on a regular basis to read what has been posted.

My disappointment for this season is tempered by my guilt of drinking the Sox promotional departments kool-aid of being "all in". One saving grace is that I was against the Dunn deal from the start.

I've been a Sox fan for over 50 years, so I've seen some REALLY bad years. Some worse that this one, none as frustrating. The teams failure at almost every level, both on and off the field is heartbreaking. The whole organization seems to be in a shambles.

The need for change is paramount. And if JR doesn't realize that, including changing his philosophy on how he delegates authority, I'm afraid we are doomed for several years to come.

I can't remember which of us stated it, but I agree with the statement that this team has no identity. Kenny seems to be a kid in a candy store when it comes to bringing talent, or lack or it, to the team. He's simply got to have the current big names out there with no consideration to monetary or prospects loss. He's always all in no matter the risk.

Ozzie's act has worn thin on me, and I don't have to live with him day in and out. Imagine the effect of the players. His managerial abilities are questionable at best, with the distinct possibility that he has managed against the teams best interests to spite his GM. Yet if Ozzie deserves to go, so does Kenny for his bonehead moves and lack of tack with former players, the media and fans.

It really bothers me though that we as fans are now, as evidenced by posts within this thread, as now arguing among ourselves. That really blows.

:thumbsup: Great post. I agree with everything you said, especially the part in bold above. 2011 has been a really rough Sox season; I have been a Sox fan for 40+ years.

tstrike2000
09-24-2011, 03:44 PM
I guess there's no hurry to start winning either.

GoGoCrede
09-24-2011, 04:01 PM
I guess there's no hurry to start winning either.

Zing!

kittle42
09-24-2011, 04:11 PM
He'll simply dismiss this with a reply calling anyone unhappy with Ozzie "ridiculous" or a "hater".

That's ok since he called himself delusional.

slavko
09-24-2011, 07:13 PM
The bottom line is that JR calls the shots. Now we understand clearly why KW's teams have crumbled in the second half, only making the playoffs twice in his helm. I think he is good at finding diamonds out of the rough, but strikes out on the better available players because his hands are tied. It's no good.

It seems like the more money the team has spent, and on deeply flawed players, the less consistent they have played since 2005. The team lacks an identity right now. The starters are good, but not great. The position players don't have one member that the opposition fears. A few are deeply respected and attended All-Star games. But teams throw at us and by our bats.

The high price of tickets also doesn't make sense when the play has been mediocre consistently. A reduction is in order.

I've suggested in the past that KW works better with less money. Your reasoning backs me up. Wouldn't you rather have three Handyman Specials than the Three Untradeables? We'd certainly be paying less to go to a game.

It does seem like we don't spend enough money except when we're spending too much money and that's a tad contradictory.

russ99
09-24-2011, 09:01 PM
I absolutely love this post.

Since we're going there, let's go ahead and post everyone else's preseason predictions too, I'm sure you all were drinking the kool-aid too...

He'll simply dismiss this with a reply calling anyone unhappy with Ozzie "ridiculous" or a "hater".

BTW - I didn't say a damn thing about Ozzie in my post. Give it up already...

dickallen15
09-24-2011, 09:19 PM
Since we're going there, let's go ahead and post everyone else's preseason predictions too, I'm sure you all were drinking the kool-aid too...



BTW - I didn't say a damn thing about Ozzie in my post. Give it up already...

You're still drinking the Ozzie kool-aid.

kittle42
09-24-2011, 10:46 PM
Since we're going there, let's go ahead and post everyone else's preseason predictions too, I'm sure you all were drinking the kool-aid too...

I'm pretty sure mine was very guarded. I was not delusional!

Tragg
09-24-2011, 11:46 PM
I've suggested in the past that KW works better with less money. Your reasoning backs me up. Wouldn't you rather have three Handyman Specials than the Three Untradeables? We'd certainly be paying less to go to a game.

It does seem like we don't spend enough money except when we're spending too much money and that's a tad contradictory.
Just getting rid of one or more of the 3 overpaid deadheads would probably help team morale.
But Williams hasn't exactly earned the right to come back himself (although I know he likely will).

Hitmen77
09-25-2011, 12:36 AM
Since we're going there, let's go ahead and post everyone else's preseason predictions too, I'm sure you all were drinking the kool-aid too...



BTW - I didn't say a damn thing about Ozzie in my post. Give it up already...

:rolleyes:

I wasn't talking about your post, I was talking about your rhetoric all season.

A. Cavatica
09-25-2011, 09:19 AM
I'm pretty sure mine was very guarded. I was not delusional!

Just about everyone here was delusional. I'm pretty sure I predicted the lowest win total of anyone (86) and it turns out that I was wildly optimistic.

I also posted a thread called "contingency plan" back in the winter, asking if Kenny had one if the "all in" plan went wildly wrong. I was pretty much crucified for it.

SI1020
09-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Just about everyone here was delusional. I'm pretty sure I predicted the lowest win total of anyone (86) and it turns out that I was wildly optimistic.

I also posted a thread called "contingency plan" back in the winter, asking if Kenny had one if the "all in" plan went wildly wrong. I was pretty much crucified for it. Yes you were.