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View Full Version : *Official* 9-21 Morel power, SOX 8 CLE 4, postgame apathy thread


Frater Perdurabo
09-21-2011, 09:10 PM
Meh

Tragg
09-21-2011, 09:17 PM
We clinched at least 3rd Place!

:bandance:

tstrike2000
09-21-2011, 09:19 PM
Man, Chad Durbin really sucks.

Vernam
09-21-2011, 09:36 PM
It's all coming together.

Vernam

Lip Man 1
09-21-2011, 09:40 PM
Six more wins for a winning season.

Lip

kittle42
09-21-2011, 09:54 PM
Six more wins for a winning season.

Thrilling.

Lip Man 1
09-21-2011, 11:12 PM
Kittle:

At this point that's all they got going for them.

Lip

hawkjt
09-22-2011, 12:37 AM
Power burst by Morel in september is nice to see. He has the glove,but needs to hit some homers to be a 3rd sacker.

DeAza continues to be clutch. Leadoff next year?

Rios has been decent the last few weeks.

MB within an inning of 11 straight years of 200+ innnings,joining 8 other pitchers in AL history to pull that off.

Burls has been so consistent the last 11 years....160-119...whoda thunk it?

cards press box
09-22-2011, 02:21 AM
:winner

Here's hoping the Sox find a way to move Adam Dunn in the offseason. The best hope? Swapping Dunn for a pitching reclamation project with a bad contract like A.J. Burnett or Carlos Zambrano.

ShooterMcGavin
09-22-2011, 03:10 AM
Power burst by Morel in september is nice to see. He has the glove,but needs to hit some homers to be a 3rd sacker.

DeAza continues to be clutch. Leadoff next year?

Rios has been decent the last few weeks.

MB within an inning of 11 straight years of 200+ innnings,joining 8 other pitchers in AL history to pull that off.

Burls has been so consistent the last 11 years....160-119...whoda thunk it?

I like your entire post. De Aza looks like he can compete for leadoff next season, Morel is finding his power stroke, and Buehrle has won 160 career games, all for the White Sox. I don't want to see this guy leave yet.

October26
09-22-2011, 07:06 AM
I like your entire post. De Aza looks like he can compete for leadoff next season, Morel is finding his power stroke, and Buehrle has won 160 career games, all for the White Sox. I don't want to see this guy leave yet.

Indeed. I really enjoyed watching the Sox come back & win this game. Last night I parked myself on my sofa, wearing my Buehrle World Series jersey, and just enjoyed watching Burls pitch. The game was close until the late innings when the Sox bats came alive. Morel has hit 7 homers in Sept? Yay! I also do not want to see Mark Buehrle leave the Sox.

Hitmen77
09-22-2011, 07:56 AM
Six more wins for a winning season.

Lip

I always root for a Sox win, but I just don't want them to use an above .500 finish as an excuse to keep telling themselves (and us) that they were competitive because they had a "winning season" and that this is "yet another season" with a 2nd place or better finish.

SI1020
09-22-2011, 08:41 AM
:winner

Here's hoping the Sox find a way to move Adam Dunn in the offseason. The best hope? Swapping Dunn for a pitching reclamation project with a bad contract like A.J. Burnett or Carlos Zambrano. No thanks.

TomBradley72
09-22-2011, 08:47 AM
I'd have to put Morel's progress overall in his rookie season as one of the pluses of 2011- steady progress at the plate- more errors than I would have expected- but error rates are usually pretty high for rookie infielders than they drop off as they get acclimated.

With our big contracts- we need some low priced/younger players in the mix- I think Morel fits the bill at 3rd.

cards press box
09-22-2011, 08:59 AM
No thanks.

Dunn's year does put the Sox in a bind, doesn't it? The Sox can't deal him without taking on some other liability that fans don't want. Ultimately, the Sox may not have any choice but to hope that Dunn bounces back.

Dunn has never played on a winning team, though, and is the big reason that the 2011 Sox will struggle to get to 81 wins. I just think that the Sox would have a better chance of turning around a pitcher who has pitched well in the past than they will turning around Dunn, even if the pitcher is Carlos Zambrano.

delben91
09-22-2011, 09:03 AM
Thrilling.

Even in 2007 I preferred it when the Sox won rather than lost. I don't think anyone's jumping for joy over here, but what's so wrong with taking a small measure of enjoyment out of seeing your favorite team win a game?

I don't mind that you don't care if the Sox win at this point, I mind that you imply some of us are wrong that do care.

doublem23
09-22-2011, 09:09 AM
Has anyone noticed that Brent Morel has been on a crazy tear lately? .279/.405/.689 (yes that is an OPS of 1.094) in September.

That's nice to see. I guess.

kittle42
09-22-2011, 09:16 AM
Even in 2007 I preferred it when the Sox won rather than lost. I don't think anyone's jumping for joy over here, but what's so wrong with taking a small measure of enjoyment out of seeing your favorite team win a game?

I don't mind that you don't care if the Sox win at this point, I mind that you imply some of us are wrong that do care.

I implied nothing more than it not being much of an accomplishment, so please don't tell me what I'm implying.

ChiSoxGal85
09-22-2011, 09:21 AM
I'd have to put Morel's progress overall in his rookie season as one of the pluses of 2011- steady progress at the plate- more errors than I would have expected- but error rates are usually pretty high for rookie infielders than they drop off as they get acclimated.

With our big contracts- we need some low priced/younger players in the mix- I think Morel fits the bill at 3rd.
Morel's progress is a big reason that I still make an effort to watch the games. I've been a fan of his defense, and now I've enjoyed watching him at the plate lately. Hope he can maintain it into next season.

Good game yesterday. It's always nicer to win than lose in my book.

hawkjt
09-22-2011, 09:25 AM
I always root for a Sox win, but I just don't want them to use an above .500 finish as an excuse to keep telling themselves (and us) that they were competitive because they had a "winning season" and that this is "yet another season" with a 2nd place or better finish.

I do not think losing a bunch of games at the end of the season will really change the composition of the team next year.
I just do not see much flexibiltiy in the roster.
I suppose MB could be let go,and might still be.
And they could trade Danks or Floyd and Quentin.
But I beleive they are stuck with PK,Gordo,Alexei and Morel ins the infield.
And Rios,Dunn,Viciedo,and DeAza in the outfield/dh.
And AJ/Flowers at catcher.
Sale,Sergio,Crain,Ohman in the bullpen...maybe trade Thornton and let the others go.

I just do not see how losing miserably down the stretch changes much.
So I would rather win.

blandman
09-22-2011, 09:30 AM
Has anyone noticed that Brent Morel has been on a crazy tear lately? .279/.405/.689 (yes that is an OPS of 1.094) in September.

That's nice to see. I guess.

Don't make the same mistake KW did last year when it comes to Morel. Being able to hit against spare parts in September does not translate.

hawkjt
09-22-2011, 09:35 AM
Don't make the same mistake KW did last year when it comes to Morel. Being able to hit against spare parts in September does not translate.

What was KW suppose to do about 3rd base last year?
Go on the free agent market for a 13 million/yr player?

Morel was not the problem this year.
Everyone said coming into the year if he hits around .260 with 10 homers at the bottom of this power-packed order,we would be fine. He did not have a great year,but on the pecking order of finger pointing,he is behind Dunn,Rios,Beckham,AJ,all of whom much,much more was expected. If they do their job,he would have been adequate.

blandman
09-22-2011, 09:51 AM
What was KW suppose to do about 3rd base last year?
Go on the free agent market for a 13 million/yr player?

Morel was not the problem this year.
Everyone said coming into the year if he hits around .260 with 10 homers at the bottom of this power-packed order,we would be fine. He did not have a great year,but on the pecking order of finger pointing,he is behind Dunn,Rios,Beckham,AJ,all of whom much,much more was expected. If they do their job,he would have been adequate.

People here said .260 w/ten homers. Scouts would not suggest he'd hit .260. He was handed the job based on September numbers, despite his minor league numbers not translating to success in the bigs.

He's a black hole offensively. We're not the Yankees. It's false logic to think that would have been okay.

kittle42
09-22-2011, 09:53 AM
People here said .260 w/ten homers. Scouts would not suggest he'd hit .260. He was handed the job based on September numbers, despite his minor league numbers not translating to success in the bigs.

He's a black hole offensively. We're not the Yankees. It's false logic to think that would have been okay.

I have to agree with you. It was the same deal with Brian Anderson - this team could "afford" to have an out in the lineup. It couldn't then, and it can't now.

DirtySox
09-22-2011, 09:54 AM
What the Hell, Brent Morel? (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-the-hell-brent-morel/)

harwar
09-22-2011, 10:00 AM
Six more wins for a winning season.

Lip


they are counting the days until vacation begins .. 7 days and a wakeup ..

DonnieDarko
09-22-2011, 10:06 AM
I'd have to put Morel's progress overall in his rookie season as one of the pluses of 2011- steady progress at the plate- more errors than I would have expected- but error rates are usually pretty high for rookie infielders than they drop off as they get acclimated.

With our big contracts- we need some low priced/younger players in the mix- I think Morel fits the bill at 3rd.

While I do expect him to develop better defensively (read: less errors), you'll have to excuse me if I think that now with all the pressure off of the White Sox, Morel's power surge is little more than smoke and mirrors.

Next season will be big for him. If he can replicate this September performance next year and learn to take a goddamned walk every once in awhile, then maybe I'll be less inclined to think that we're going to need a new third baseman soon.

TomBradley72
09-22-2011, 10:33 AM
Don't make the same mistake KW did last year when it comes to Morel. Being able to hit against spare parts in September does not translate.

Just because the hits have come in September- doesn't mean they are against Sept call ups-

SI1020
09-22-2011, 10:45 AM
I prefer to give Morel the benefit of the doubt. Isn't Cleveland trying hard so their coaches can afford Christmas presents?

blandman
09-22-2011, 10:48 AM
Just because the hits have come in September- doesn't mean they are against Sept call ups-


Of his homers, 3 were, 1 was against a rookie up longer, 2 were against second year guys, and the last one was against Chad Durbin.

blandman
09-22-2011, 10:48 AM
What the Hell, Brent Morel? (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/what-the-hell-brent-morel/)

Someone should tell that guy to look at last September.

Lip Man 1
09-22-2011, 10:53 AM
Hitmen:

Given that the Sox would have to go 6-1 to finish with 82 wins, I don't think it's going to happen anyway but even if it did, I have a hard time wrapping my arms around the idea that the Sox, in all honesty would think they were 'compedtitive' this season.

Just can't see that happening. They know how bad things were; starting with JR who has been "grumpy" all season I've been told because of how bad they played.

Lip

captain54
09-22-2011, 11:44 AM
I have a hard time wrapping my arms around the idea that the Sox, in all honesty would think they were 'compedtitive' this season.


Lip

I don't think the organization in their heart of hearts thought the team was truly a contender, but I'll bet the new spin going into 12' is gonna be that 11' was a fluke, a freak of nature, and guys this good couldn't possibly be this bad again.

JB98
09-22-2011, 12:23 PM
While I do expect him to develop better defensively (read: less errors), you'll have to excuse me if I think that now with all the pressure off of the White Sox, Morel's power surge is little more than smoke and mirrors.

Next season will be big for him. If he can replicate this September performance next year and learn to take a goddamned walk every once in awhile, then maybe I'll be less inclined to think that we're going to need a new third baseman soon.

He has been taking a goddamned walk every once in awhile this month. He's got 13 BBs against 12 Ks during this hot stretch. His discipline has improved along with his numbers. That's why I'm not ready to dismiss his hot streak as smoke and mirrors.

I'm willing to give both Morel and Beckham another shot next year to get things figured out at the plate. They are both good fielders, which makes it a little easier to show patience with them.

Frankly, I don't think the Sox are going anywhere in 2012 regardless. So I don't see the harm in giving these guys another year, hopefully under a new set of coaches.

But, yes, next year is a big year for Morel. He needs to show improvement.

doublem23
09-22-2011, 12:33 PM
He has been taking a goddamned walk every once in awhile this month. He's got 13 BBs against 12 Ks during this hot stretch. His discipline has improved along with his numbers. That's why I'm not ready to dismiss his hot streak as smoke and mirrors.

I'm willing to give both Morel and Beckham another shot next year to get things figured out at the plate. They are both good fielders, which makes it a little easier to show patience with them.

Frankly, I don't think the Sox are going anywhere in 2012 regardless. So I don't see the harm in giving these guys another year, hopefully under a new set of coaches.

But, yes, next year is a big year for Morel. He needs to show improvement.

Well, I agree with Morel, I'm willing to go along for the ride a little longer. I'm basically done with Beckham as a starter, but the Sox have more pressing needs than 2B, so I guess I don't care that much, though if they did replace him, I wouldn't give a crap. Beckham's IF defensive versatility still gives him value as a bench player, though.

Definitely going to need some good IF defense, though, as the Sox still are a pretty big "pitch to contact" team and they're going to have the WORST DEFENDER IN THE HISTORY OF ALL BASEBALL EVER OR SO I'VE BEEN TOLD BY A GUY WHO HAS LIKE... 5 GAMES ON TAPE OF HIM IN CHARLOTTE in the outfield next year. Frankly, I don't see how they can expect to win more than... 30 games with a potential corner OF as terrible as Dayan Viciedo in 2012, but maybe they'll prove me wrong. MAYBE.

blandman
09-22-2011, 02:39 PM
He has been taking a goddamned walk every once in awhile this month. He's got 13 BBs against 12 Ks during this hot stretch. His discipline has improved along with his numbers. That's why I'm not ready to dismiss his hot streak as smoke and mirrors.

I'm willing to give both Morel and Beckham another shot next year to get things figured out at the plate. They are both good fielders, which makes it a little easier to show patience with them.

Frankly, I don't think the Sox are going anywhere in 2012 regardless. So I don't see the harm in giving these guys another year, hopefully under a new set of coaches.

But, yes, next year is a big year for Morel. He needs to show improvement.

Last September in fewer plate appearances he walked 4 times and had six extra base hits. Don't believe the hype.

SI1020
09-22-2011, 02:52 PM
Well, I agree with Morel, I'm willing to go along for the ride a little longer. I'm basically done with Beckham as a starter, but the Sox have more pressing needs than 2B, so I guess I don't care that much, though if they did replace him, I wouldn't give a crap. Beckham's IF defensive versatility still gives him value as a bench player, though.

Definitely going to need some good IF defense, though, as the Sox still are a pretty big "pitch to contact" team and they're going to have the WORST DEFENDER IN THE HISTORY OF ALL BASEBALL EVER OR SO I'VE BEEN TOLD BY A GUY WHO HAS LIKE... 5 GAMES ON TAPE OF HIM IN CHARLOTTE in the outfield next year. Frankly, I don't see how they can expect to win more than... 30 games with a potential corner OF as terrible as Dayan Viciedo in 2012, but maybe they'll prove me wrong. MAYBE. It didn't take me that long to realize that Viciedo is just not a natural in the field, no matter where you put him. Not the worst ever, but be prepared for some growing pains.

kittle42
09-22-2011, 03:12 PM
be prepared for some growing pains.

Show me that smile again...

Frater Perdurabo
09-22-2011, 03:32 PM
Don't believe the hype.

Recent performance by a young player is more relevant than the first half of his rookie season, or his cup of coffee last September. It's just as likely that he's figured out how to make adjustments to major league pitching, and now is being more selective and looking for a pitch to drive.

doublem23
09-22-2011, 04:04 PM
Recent performance by a young player is more relevant than the first half of his rookie season, or his cup of coffee last September. It's just as likely that he's figured out how to make adjustments to major league pitching, and now is being more selective and looking for a pitch to drive.

Well, it's only 100 PA so it's not something to get that worked up over, but either way, if the Sox are counting on Brent Morel to make any sort of offensive contribution in 2012, we're screwed.

Frater Perdurabo
09-22-2011, 04:07 PM
Well, it's only 100 PA so it's not something to get that worked up over, but either way, if the Sox are counting on Brent Morel to make any sort of offensive contribution in 2012, we're screwed.

We're screwed if Rios and Dunn don't hit, regardless of what Morel does.

blandman
09-22-2011, 04:08 PM
Recent performance by a young player is more relevant than the first half of his rookie season, or his cup of coffee last September. It's just as likely that he's figured out how to make adjustments to major league pitching, and now is being more selective and looking for a pitch to drive.

He's almost exclusively facing young guys. It's incredibly irrelevant.

And his first half numbers and second half numbers outside of September are almost identical. This isn't a learning curve issue, it's a competition level issue.

blandman
09-22-2011, 04:08 PM
We're screwed if Rios and Dunn don't hit, regardless of what Morel does.

Not if we replace him with, say, David Wright.

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2011, 04:18 PM
None of us are going to confuse Brent with David Wright anytime soon. A lot of scouts expected Morel to be an average starting 3rd baseman. He doesn't really need to be a star player, Konerko, Quentin and Dunn were supposed to be the star players this year. Going forward, Viciedo might need to carry the team with the bat.
I like Morel's defense at 3rd, and I also like that he can make adjustments against more established players. What we need him to do is to learn more about how other pitchers are going to attack him and adjust accordingly. We've seen a ton of rookies do well and flame out the next year. It's possible that Morel can be one of them, but based on his improvement from the first half, I think he can be a solid starting third baseman.

blandman
09-22-2011, 05:11 PM
None of us are going to confuse Brent with David Wright anytime soon. A lot of scouts expected Morel to be an average starting 3rd baseman. He doesn't really need to be a star player, Konerko, Quentin and Dunn were supposed to be the star players this year. Going forward, Viciedo might need to carry the team with the bat.
I like Morel's defense at 3rd, and I also like that he can make adjustments against more established players. What we need him to do is to learn more about how other pitchers are going to attack him and adjust accordingly. We've seen a ton of rookies do well and flame out the next year. It's possible that Morel can be one of them, but based on his improvement from the first half, I think he can be a solid starting third baseman.

No, the White Sox scouts said that. Scouts of other teams and a few posters here scoffed at the notion. The ONLY basis at the time was last September. Up until that point, the book on Morel was he was never going to hit enough to be an everyday player.

edit: honestly, it's painful to have to go through it again. Another year of the team thinking Morel is going to be an everyday player based on September baseball is NOT promising in regards to next year's prospects of competing.

edit #2: and PLEASE stop saying "improvement from the first half". His second half numbers outside of callup time is the same as his first half numbers. He was 35 for 137 in July and August with one home run.

kittle42
09-22-2011, 05:18 PM
No, the White Sox scouts said that. Scouts of other teams and a few posters here scoffed at the notion. The ONLY basis at the time was last September. Up until that point, the book on Morel was he was never going to hit enough to be an everyday player.

edit: honestly, it's painful to have to go through it again. Another year of the team thinking Morel is going to be an everyday player based on September baseball is NOT promising in regards to next year's prospects of competing.

edit #2: and PLEASE stop saying "improvement from the first half". His second half numbers outside of callup time is the same as his first half numbers. He was 35 for 137 in July and August with one home run.

Any players who are only good in September should try to get with the Sox - guaranteed job security on that late-season improvement! :D:

Frater Perdurabo
09-22-2011, 08:01 PM
Not if we replace him with, say, David Wright.

Or A-Rod, right? :rolleyes:

Maybe even Mike Schmidt in his prime?

DirtySox
09-22-2011, 08:42 PM
Munch with more of his expert talent evaluation I see. He was dead on with Fautino, Hudson, and Derrick Rose. I can't wait for further analysis.

Frater Perdurabo
09-22-2011, 08:46 PM
Munch with more of his expert talent evaluation I see. He was dead on with Fautino, Hudson, and Derrick Rose. I can't wait for further analysis.

It's the kind of analysis I look forward to, kind of like looking forward to dengue fever.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2011, 08:54 PM
He has been taking a goddamned walk every once in awhile this month. He's got 13 BBs against 12 Ks during this hot stretch. His discipline has improved along with his numbers. That's why I'm not ready to dismiss his hot streak as smoke and mirrors.

I'm willing to give both Morel and Beckham another shot next year to get things figured out at the plate. They are both good fielders, which makes it a little easier to show patience with them.

Frankly, I don't think the Sox are going anywhere in 2012 regardless. So I don't see the harm in giving these guys another year, hopefully under a new set of coaches.

But, yes, next year is a big year for Morel. He needs to show improvement.

I'm certainly not ready to give up on Morel but isn't there an axiom to never trust numbers put up in September? I am certainly encouraged by his hot streak but I don't put a whole lot of stock into these numbers one way or the other.

slavko
09-22-2011, 09:09 PM
I'm certainly not ready to give up on Morel but isn't there an axiom to never trust numbers put up in September? I am certainly encouraged by his hot streak but I don't put a whole lot of stock into these numbers one way or the other.

I'm inclined to dismiss the September hot streak by Morel. I would be moreso inclined if any other young mope on the White Sox had the same beneficial effect from facing the same inferior pitching. Flowers? Beckham? Viciedo? Nothing there. It's harder to make a case from one example, but maybe this is the exception and not the rule.

It just might be that he's getting the hang of this hitting stuff.

Nellie_Fox
09-22-2011, 11:58 PM
Munch with more of his expert talent evaluation I see. He was dead on with Fautino, Hudson, and Derrick Rose. I can't wait for further analysis.

It's the kind of analysis I look forward to, kind of like looking forward to dengue fever.Knock off the personal stuff.

34 Inch Stick
09-23-2011, 12:55 PM
I read a report comparing his progress this year to Valencia's last year. Would people be fine having a Valencia type as a starting 3B?

kittle42
09-23-2011, 01:55 PM
I read a report comparing his progress this year to Valencia's last year. Would people be fine having a Valencia type as a starting 3B?

He's not very good, either.