PDA

View Full Version : Team executives comment on Moneyball


#1swisher
09-21-2011, 01:02 PM
With the upcoming release of the movie "Moneyball" Ken Rosenthal writes; most teams say that it's important to blend both objective analysis with the subjective views of scouts.

Brian Cashman - "This is a business, it's more than just, "This guy looks good in a uniform".

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Moneyball-theory-still-relevant-to-mlb-8-years-later-but-debate-has-shifted-092011

doublem23
09-21-2011, 01:32 PM
I mean, we're pretty much all in agreement at this point that Billy Beane doesn't know what he's doing, right? Moneyball works pretty well when 1/2 your team is juiced up and you fall backwards into the three best pitchers in the league, but otherwise, it's not exactly a winning proposition.

I hope they show the part where they rip on Kenny Williams three seasons before Williams won the World Series.

Foulke You
09-21-2011, 05:11 PM
I mean, we're pretty much all in agreement at this point that Billy Beane doesn't know what he's doing, right? Moneyball works pretty well when 1/2 your team is juiced up and you fall backwards into the three best pitchers in the league, but otherwise, it's not exactly a winning proposition.

I hope they show the part where they rip on Kenny Williams three seasons before Williams won the World Series.
Couldn't agree more. The A's have been pretty bad the last few seasons. Where is the great Beane now? The only recent champagne that has been poured at the Coliseum was by the Tigers when they clinched there.

WhiteSox5187
09-21-2011, 05:27 PM
There were three reasons those A's teams were good and they were Tim Hudson, Barry Zito and Mark Mulder.

DSpivack
09-22-2011, 10:29 PM
Guess who is playing Miguel Tejada?

:thechoice

Lip Man 1
09-22-2011, 10:49 PM
If memory serves the A's haven't even had a season where they won more games than they lost in five or six years.

Brad Pitt is on the cover of S.I. this week with a big story on the "Moneyball" philosophy and Beane. What's interesting is that the crux of the story appears to be (I've only skimmed through it as this time) that Beane isn't winning anymore with his system because he let the Moneyball book author in his world, the word got out and the Red Sox (specifically) are using that philosophy and spending tons of money to bludgeon him.

I don't agree with that conclusion myself. I agree more with the poster who said the A's won because of Hudson, Mulder and Zito which has nothing to do with Moneyball.

And isn't it delicious irony that the G.M. who was mocked in the book, Kenny, actually got to and won a World Series, where the "genius" hasn't?

Lip

SBSoxFan
09-22-2011, 11:40 PM
I mean, we're pretty much all in agreement at this point that Billy Beane doesn't know what he's doing, right? Moneyball works pretty well when 1/2 your team is juiced up and you fall backwards into the three best pitchers in the league, but otherwise, it's not exactly a winning proposition.

I hope they show the part where they rip on Kenny Williams three seasons before Williams won the World Series.

Given this, I really question the financial wisdom of making this movie. It's about 5 years too late. Now, however, I would think it's going to bomb. Why would anyone want to go see it now? It'd be like going to see a movie about how great asbestos is.

Fenway
09-23-2011, 05:55 PM
The biggest single thing the Red Sox did was to hire Bill James.


Anyone who has ever spent time at a racetrack knows about pouring over stats - and at the end of the day you could wind up watching an old woman who like the color of the horse walk away with more winnings.

The late owner of the Red Sox AAA team, Ben Mondor, once told me an important thing he learned during 30+ years of watching AAA ball. He had seen too many players fall apart after they got the big money - they lost the hunger.

For whatever it is worth - Bobby Jenks remarked that he was shocked at how much video the Red Sox had on everyone and how the team gave each player an iPad with video of every possible situation and said the White Sox don't do anything near that to prepare. I think there is some truth to that which might explain why the Sox seems to have major problems with pitchers they have never seen. I have no clue on how Walker uses video but the key is hiring good video people who can edit/breakdown the material quickly. Football has been using film/tape for decades but it is still *new* to baseball.

I do know that both Detroit and Cleveland spend a small fortune on video people.


If memory serves the A's haven't even had a season where they won more games than they lost in five or six years.



Brad Pitt is on the cover of S.I. this week with a big story on the "Moneyball" philosophy and Beane. What's interesting is that the crux of the story appears to be (I've only skimmed through it as this time) that Beane isn't winning anymore with his system because he let the Moneyball book author in his world, the word got out and the Red Sox (specifically) are using that philosophy and spending tons of money to bludgeon him.

I don't agree with that conclusion myself. I agree more with the poster who said the A's won because of Hudson, Mulder and Zito which has nothing to do with Moneyball.

And isn't it delicious irony that the G.M. who was mocked in the book, Kenny, actually got to and won a World Series, where the "genius" hasn't?

Lip

Noneck
09-23-2011, 08:34 PM
For whatever it is worth - Bobby Jenks remarked that he was shocked at how much video the Red Sox had on everyone and how the team gave each player an iPad with video of every possible situation and said the White Sox don't do anything near that to prepare. I think there is some truth to that which might explain why the Sox seems to have major problems with pitchers they have never seen. I have no clue on how Walker uses video but the key is hiring good video people who can edit/breakdown the material quickly. Football has been using film/tape for decades but it is still *new* to baseball.



I mentioned the technology thing years ago. I cant see why a player cant have every at bat he has ever had against a pitcher available to him at a moments notice. Maybe MLB doesnt want players to be seen in dugouts looking at computer screens but the technology is there for this to happen.

Fenway
09-23-2011, 08:54 PM
I mentioned the technology thing years ago. I cant see why a player cant have every at bat he has ever had against a pitcher available to him at a moments notice. Maybe MLB doesnt want players to be seen in dugouts looking at computer screens but the technology is there for this to happen.

It is hard for the position players to sneak a peek during a game but I know a few DH's that always go back to the clubhouse.

MLB had a fit when the Red Sox put HDTV's in BOTH bullpens for the players to have.

I think you have to wait for Selig to go away before any of this becomes routine.

bridgeportcopper
09-23-2011, 09:47 PM
It is hard for the position players to sneak a peek during a game but I know a few DH's that always go back to the clubhouse.

MLB had a fit when the Red Sox put HDTV's in BOTH bullpens for the players to have.

I think you have to wait for Selig to go away before any of this becomes routine.

I'm guessing #32 on the White Sox is not one of them....

PaleHoser
09-24-2011, 12:30 AM
Bobby Jenks remarked that he was shocked at how much video the Red Sox had on everyone and how the team gave each player an iPad with video of every possible situation and said the White Sox don't do anything near that to prepare.

Video? Our skipper doesn't even know how to read a stat sheet.

PatK
09-24-2011, 10:38 AM
The gossip site "What Would Tyler Durden Do?" has a quick, funny bashing on the SI article and the movie

http://www.wwtdd.com/2011/09/brad-pitt-is-on-the-cover-of-sports-illustrated/

One line sums it up best

"The reason this is a weird concept for a movie is because his system sucks."

Fenway
09-24-2011, 09:07 PM
Irony is smallball saved the Yankees this year :scratch:


http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2011/09/24/2011-09-24_brian_cashman_thought_yankees_lost_to_red_sox_d uring_offseason_but_smallball_app.html

Oblong
09-25-2011, 07:34 AM
\Cleveland spend a small fortune on video people.

When the Tigers called up Omir Santos, a backup catcher, he spent the flight studying the starting pitcher on his Ipad. Or the team's Ipad.

My problem with the book is that I believe it created a problem in search of a solution.

They over emphasized the whole stat/scout thing to the point where it seemed you have to be one or the other. The things are not contradictory. The development of advanced stats would have happened without Billy BEane or Depodesta or Epstein. Technology created the availability of information being accessible. Instead of pouring through box scores compiling data or lugging around encyclopedias you now could punch things up on a laptop. Every game is instantly available and you don't require a studio to edit video down to what you want. A $900 laptop will do the trick. I recall one exec saying around the time of the book's release "You don't think we are already using stats? Where have you been?"

Michael Lewis walked into a situation and invented the story. Yes Beane was doing something different and the way he portrays it makes for some cute dialog. The best analogy I heard on this was from Hardball Times. If you go into a movie like Braveheart or the Patriot and you are a historical buff and know the history being portrayed..... you'll hate it because you know how wrong it is. This is a movie meant for general audiences, not die hart baseball fans. Just enjoy it as a movie and forget reality.