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View Full Version : Ozzie Hopes His Status Is Resolved Quickly


Lip Man 1
09-20-2011, 07:37 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-guillen-hopes-to-find-out-status-with-sox-before-spain-trip-20110920,0,537263.story

Lip

jdm2662
09-20-2011, 07:51 PM
Fair enough. I think we all deserve our fates sooner than later. Personally, I hope you pack your bags quickly...

soxfanatlanta
09-20-2011, 07:52 PM
This man makes me weary; instead of playing the victim, just resign and head to Miami, already!

SI1020
09-20-2011, 08:18 PM
This man makes me weary; instead of playing the victim, just resign and head to Miami, already! I remember the darkest of dark years from 68-70, but this year has been one long beatdown.

Sox
09-20-2011, 09:18 PM
One way or the other I will be so glad when this whole saga of as The Guillen turns is over and done with. :facepalm:

rainbow6
09-20-2011, 09:53 PM
This entire situation is beyond depressing.

On one hand, I think that a losing season in three of the last five years is unacceptable and I want the Sox to be the type of organization that holds the management personell accountable.

On the other hand, Ozzie had a roster with likes of Rios, Dunn, Beckham, Morel, pre-July Pierre, etc. I'm aware of all the debates regarding line-ups and playing time (I think many are valid) but I just can't lay the blame for this season at Ozzie's feet.

Likewise, after living through the Ron Shueler era, I will take my chances with Ken Williams as my G.M.

I end up asking myself two questions:

1. Can I name a G.M. that I would rather have who has the White Sox best interest in mind (i.e. winning the series) rather than Williams? The answer is no.

2. Is there manager out there I would be happy to see replace Guillen? Unless Brenly or LaRussa are the names I would still say no.

I'm aware times change - the Yankees ****-canned Torre and won another W.S. but I always had hoped that the Williams/Guillen combo lasted a generation.

Noneck
09-20-2011, 09:54 PM
There is a lot that doesnt make sense about how this organization works. If Reinsdorf is so close with Guillien why doesnt ozwaldo call him up and tell him what he is telling the media? This whole situation stinks to high heaven.

Tragg
09-20-2011, 10:07 PM
Resign, Oz.
That will resolve it quickly.

dickallen15
09-20-2011, 10:07 PM
I'm sure he'll be told he has a contract for next season if he wants to come back, fine but you cannot have an extension right now and we are going to make some coaching changes. Joey and Greg and Jeff will have to leave.

If the Sox really wanted him back, they would have said so by now. They don't want him back, but they don't want to fire him. Unless the Marlins agree to some sort of compensation quickly, I believe this will drag out a while.

Ideally Ozzie will say he can't return under the conditions he will have to return. If he says he will come back then the Sox either have to bring him back or fire him.

Noneck
09-20-2011, 10:17 PM
I'm sure he'll be told he has a contract for next season if he wants to come back, fine but you cannot have an extension right now and we are going to make some coaching changes. Joey and Greg and Jeff will have to leave.

If the Sox really wanted him back, they would have said so by now. They don't want him back, but they don't want to fire him. Unless the Marlins agree to some sort of compensation quickly, I believe this will drag out a while.

Ideally Ozzie will say he can't return under the conditions he will have to return. If he says he will come back then the Sox either have to bring him back or fire him.

If that is what is going on, the suppose father - son relationship between Reinsdorf and Oz isnt there and maybe it never was.

southside rocks
09-20-2011, 10:34 PM
This entire situation is beyond depressing.

On one hand, I think that a losing season in three of the last five years is unacceptable and I want the Sox to be the type of organization that holds the management personell accountable.

On the other hand, Ozzie had a roster with likes of Rios, Dunn, Beckham, Morel, pre-July Pierre, etc. I'm aware of all the debates regarding line-ups and playing time (I think many are valid) but I just can't lay the blame for this season at Ozzie's feet.

Likewise, after living through the Ron Shueler era, I will take my chances with Ken Williams as my G.M.

I end up asking myself two questions:

1. Can I name a G.M. that I would rather have who has the White Sox best interest in mind (i.e. winning the series) rather than Williams? The answer is no.

2. Is there manager out there I would be happy to see replace Guillen? Unless Brenly or LaRussa are the names I would still say no.

I'm aware times change - the Yankees ****-canned Torre and won another W.S. but I always had hoped that the Williams/Guillen combo lasted a generation.

I agree with you.

As GM, I would not mind seeing Rick Hahn take over; as manager, there are not any current or recently-active managers I can think of that I want to see in a Sox uniform. I'd almost rather see how Joey Cora does, if Ozzie has to go; but before Ozzie goes, I think it's only right that the underachieving and grossly overpaid Dunn and Rios go, and a few others along with them.

I don't want Ozzie to go, but if he's lost his enthusiasm for this job then I do want him to find it somewhere else. Goodness knows, this season has almost soured me on the White Sox, and I have been able to turn off the games when they're being horrible!

Lip Man 1
09-20-2011, 10:52 PM
To change the culture of an underachieving clubhouse, to stop players from becoming comfortable, you have to change the field staff.

Whether that's the manager or the majority of his coaches you can take your pick, but you have to change something.

If not... the same slow starts, the same listlessness, the same inability to execute fundamentals is going to continue on.

Lip

Brian26
09-20-2011, 11:48 PM
If that is what is going on, the suppose father - son relationship between Reinsdorf and Oz isnt there and maybe it never was.

Ironically, the non-existant father-son relationship between Ozzie and Oney has caused much of the strain in the organization. If the Twitter got turned off two years ago, things would be in much better shape.

slavko
09-21-2011, 12:15 AM
I'm sure he'll be told he has a contract for next season if he wants to come back, fine but you cannot have an extension right now and we are going to make some coaching changes. Joey and Greg and Jeff will have to leave.

If the Sox really wanted him back, they would have said so by now. They don't want him back, but they don't want to fire him. Unless the Marlins agree to some sort of compensation quickly, I believe this will drag out a while.

Ideally Ozzie will say he can't return under the conditions he will have to return. If he says he will come back then the Sox either have to bring him back or fire him.

Looks pretty good to me. But I'd give it a week after the season ended before I'd stamp it approved. If only we knew everything that was said and thought in private by the principals in this muddled tale. Oh well, we can pretend we do and post it on WSI!

Noneck
09-21-2011, 12:17 AM
Ironically, the non-existant father-son relationship between Ozzie and Oney has caused much of the strain in the organization. If the Twitter got turned off two years ago, things would be in much better shape.

Probably has something to do with the situation but the so called father- son relationship never really meshed in my mind.

Foulke You
09-21-2011, 01:36 AM
I hope the Oz situation is resolved quickly too. I don't want it to linger thru the World Series. If you choose to let Oz go, you can always wait to name a successor if there is a candidate on one of the playoff teams you want to interview. If you choose to keep him, then at least the organization can move forward.

PaleHoser
09-21-2011, 07:05 AM
I wonder how Ozzie would react if one of his players whined to the media about wanting an extension even though they were under contract for another year?

Rocky Soprano
09-21-2011, 10:05 AM
I wonder how Ozzie would react if one of his players whined to the media about wanting an extension even though they were under contract for another year?

He would say how he respects the game too much to ever do something like that.

#1swisher
09-21-2011, 10:55 AM
Ironically, the non-existant father-son relationship between Ozzie and Oney has caused much of the strain in the organization. If the Twitter got turned off two years ago, things would be in much better shape.

"Money doesn't change men, it merely, unmasks them".


IMO, twitter gave us a real look behind the scenes

Johnny Mostil
09-21-2011, 11:04 AM
"Money doesn't change men, it merely, unmasks them".


IMO, twitter gave us a real look behind the scenes

I think this is spot-on. I was going to post that I didn't really think Twitter had much to do with it, and was more a symptom than a cause, but you're far closer to the mark with this.

Was anybody else surprised by Guillén’s comments about "Jerry's God and the real God"? Hard to tell what's going on there, I suppose, so maybe it's no big deal, but I was surprised he'd say something like that.

doublem23
09-21-2011, 11:39 AM
Ozzie, you're under contract for 2012, so shut the **** up.

Brewski
09-21-2011, 11:40 AM
I think this is spot-on. I was going to post that I didn't really think Twitter had much to do with it, and was more a symptom than a cause, but you're far closer to the mark with this.

Was anybody else surprised by Guillén’s comments about "Jerry's God and the real God"? Hard to tell what's going on there, I suppose, so maybe it's no big deal, but I was surprised he'd say something like that.

You think it might have had something to do with religion? I was surprised and I was not surprised. It only makes sense if A is looking for a divorce from B. Understand, some of my best...oh never mind.

sox1970
09-21-2011, 11:47 AM
I hope Ozzie gets his wish.

The thought of him being gone by next Friday is pretty appealing.

Johnny Mostil
09-21-2011, 11:48 AM
You think it might have had something to do with religion? I was surprised and I was not surprised. It only makes sense if A is looking for a divorce from B. Understand, some of my best...oh never mind.

Let me guess . . . Some of your best friends are on Twitter?:wink:

I don't know if it was intentional, but this (http://twitter.com/#!/gordonbeckham/status/116355192601051137) made me smile.

guillensdisciple
09-21-2011, 11:54 AM
I'll miss Ozz. It will be the end of a great Era in Sox history. Love him or hate him, this is probably the most successful stint of White Sox baseball since the beginning of the century. Granted, I am only going off of Championships, but it seems like the White Sox did a lot better than usual in the past 7 or 8 years.

Ehh, being okay with good is not that good anyway. Hopefully this franchise can become a type of superpower. Wouldn't it be nice?

Lip Man 1
09-21-2011, 12:02 PM
Guillen:

Which century? starting with 2000??

Lip

guillensdisciple
09-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Guillen:

Which century? starting with 2000??

Lip


My apologies for not being specific, basically since the inception of White Sox baseball club.

I assume the first 30 years of the organization were kind to us since that is when we won the majority of our titles, but after that nothing. Really, no matter how good a period of baseball was back in the day the fact that Ozzie brought us a World Series automatically makes this the best era since the last championship era. Just saying, and overall he did a good job too if you're looking at records for records sake.

I ono, I honestly think that World Series trumps every other method of critiquing.

Nellie_Fox
09-21-2011, 12:34 PM
You think it might have had something to do with religion? I was surprised and I was not surprised. It only makes sense if A is looking for a divorce from B. Understand, some of my best...oh never mind.I think you're reading way too much into it. It's his broken English. I think he meant that, as far as the Sox go, Jerry IS god, so he was saying that only Jerry and God know what is in store.

Johnny Mostil
09-21-2011, 12:53 PM
I think you're reading way too much into it. It's his broken English. I think he meant that, as far as the Sox go, Jerry IS god, so he was saying that only Jerry and God know what is in store.

That would make more sense, and might even be correct, but I'm still not sure the original quote reads that way. To wit: "Only two gods know: Jerry (Reinsdorf's) God and the real God." It would take really broken English to say "Only two gods know: Jerry is God and the real God."

Eh, whatever . . . he could probably use some reporters who print what he means to say, and not what he says. And I'm sure he speaks English better than I speak Spanish . . .

Lip Man 1
09-21-2011, 01:01 PM
Guillen:

Thanks. Personally to me, the time period from 1951 through 1967 was the Golden Age of White Sox baseball because of sustained excellence.

17 consecutive winning seasons
7 seasons with 90+ wins (and through 1960 they only played 154 games)
Outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those 17 years
Had 70 All Star selections in the time period
Won 1959 A.L. pennant
Was the only AL franchise to consistently challenge the Yankee dynasty

But I understand where you are coming from.

Lip

russ99
09-21-2011, 03:00 PM
I wonder how Ozzie would react if one of his players whined to the media about wanting an extension even though they were under contract for another year?

Hm, let's see. Dye did that. Buehrle did that. That's just off the top of my head.

dickallen15
09-21-2011, 03:37 PM
Hm, let's see. Dye did that. Buehrle did that. That's just off the top of my head.
Buerhle never whined about a contract.

captain54
09-21-2011, 04:25 PM
My apologies for not being specific, basically since the inception of White Sox baseball club.

I assume the first 30 years of the organization were kind to us since that is when we won the majority of our titles, but after that nothing. Really, no matter how good a period of baseball was back in the day the fact that Ozzie brought us a World Series automatically makes this the best era since the last championship era. Just saying, and overall he did a good job too if you're looking at records for records sake.

I ono, I honestly think that World Series trumps every other method of critiquing.

I don't mean to be a super critical SOB, but you really need to go back and look at some White Sox history..

Go back and look at the White Sox in the 1950's and until 1968. This has been discussed many times before, but in the days of no divisions and no playoffs, they were for the most part, always near the top of the AL.

AL Lopez blows Ozzie away as far as successful Sox managers

SI1020
09-21-2011, 04:35 PM
I don't mean to be a super critical SOB, but you really need to go back and look at some White Sox history..

Go back and look at the White Sox in the 1950's and until 1968. This has been discussed many times before, but in the days of no divisions and no playoffs, they were for the most part, always near the top of the AL.

AL Lopez blows Ozzie away as far as successful Sox managers The Yankees owned the AL lock, stock and barrel in those years. Only Lopez was able to challenge them consistently.

dickallen15
09-21-2011, 05:02 PM
I don't mean to be a super critical SOB, but you really need to go back and look at some White Sox history..

Go back and look at the White Sox in the 1950's and until 1968. This has been discussed many times before, but in the days of no divisions and no playoffs, they were for the most part, always near the top of the AL.

AL Lopez blows Ozzie away as far as successful Sox managers
Gene Lamont had a far better winning pct. than Ozzie as well. He didnt' win a title, but if JR was correct and there was no strike and the Sox won in 94, its kind of interesting he was able to be fired 29 games into 1995 when Schueler left him garbage.

wassagstdu
09-21-2011, 05:58 PM
I hope it doesn't happen, but it sure looks/feels like Ozzie is on his way to Miami. Somehow it seems appropriate that he would be dressed in teal every day.

kittle42
09-21-2011, 06:10 PM
I hope it doesn't happen, but it sure looks/feels like Ozzie is on his way to Miami. Somehow it seems appropriate that he would be dressed in teal every day.

Ha, well played!

Vernam
09-21-2011, 09:19 PM
In glancing at the thread title, I thought it said "statue." I don't think that's in the cards anymore, partly because Ozzie's own comments would prompt some fans to micturate on it.

Vernam

Mohoney
09-21-2011, 09:35 PM
I wonder how Ozzie would react if one of his players whined to the media about wanting an extension even though they were under contract for another year?
He would probably have his kid tweet something stupid.

peelwonder
09-23-2011, 12:57 PM
This may be a dumb question but I don't see it answered here so I'll try.

Why is his vacation scheduled for 2 days after the season end?

Was he just assuming that we weren't going to be in the post season? He may have scheduled it recently but to go on vacation 2 days after the regular season is over stinks out loud.

Noneck
09-23-2011, 01:14 PM
This may be a dumb question but I don't see it answered here so I'll try.

Why is his vacation scheduled for 2 days after the season end?

Was he just assuming that we weren't going to be in the post season? He may have scheduled it recently but to go on vacation 2 days after the regular season is over stinks out loud.

Maybe so he can be back for his gig on fox for the world series.

GoGoCrede
09-24-2011, 12:17 PM
Maybe so he can be back for his gig on fox for the world series.

He was pretty amusing on that gig, actually. Wouldn't mind if he did it again. He was pretty funny and charming.

kufram
09-24-2011, 03:58 PM
He was pretty amusing on that gig, actually. Wouldn't mind if he did it again. He was pretty funny and charming.


For all of his faults Ozzie is a very funny guy.

soxfanreggie
09-25-2011, 11:58 AM
This may be a dumb question but I don't see it answered here so I'll try.

Why is his vacation scheduled for 2 days after the season end?

Was he just assuming that we weren't going to be in the post season? He may have scheduled it recently but to go on vacation 2 days after the regular season is over stinks out loud.

I only started hearing about this vacation after we were out of it. I'm guessing he would be going on vacation two days after our last game unless we won the W.S. because then he would have a ton of media and celebration obligations.

Red Barchetta
09-25-2011, 12:11 PM
IMO, the focus the next few weeks is on J.R. more than anyone else in this soap opera. We know his reputation of sticking to the letters of each contract, i.e. Pippen, Jackson, Thomas, etc., so I will be curious if he continues with this philosophy (Ozzie signed through 2012, no ifs ands or buts), or whether he is open to trading him to Miami. I do know he will not eat the $2M and just let him walk.

slavko
09-25-2011, 12:22 PM
IMO, the focus the next few weeks is on J.R. more than anyone else in this soap opera. We know his reputation of sticking to the letters of each contract, i.e. Pippen, Jackson, Thomas, etc., so I will be curious if he continues with this philosophy (Ozzie signed through 2012, no ifs ands or buts), or whether he is open to trading him to Miami. I do know he will not eat the $2M and just let him walk.

Me:He fired Skiles and ate his contract.
You:He had to.
Me:He fired Skiles and ate his contract.
... and so forth

and Albeck and Floyd and Lamont and LaRussa but you don't need to mention these because they disprove your case. That's good lawyering.

Lip Man 1
09-25-2011, 12:35 PM
Just wondering if those other coaches / managers JR let go had a full season and two million dollars remaining on the contract?

That could be the great equalizer.

Lip

Noneck
09-25-2011, 12:53 PM
I believe Skiles was owed some real money, the rest I dont think so. Also the replacements to these coaches/managers that were let go, I think were all bargain basement replacements.

Red Barchetta
09-25-2011, 01:02 PM
Me:He fired Skiles and ate his contract.
You:He had to.
Me:He fired Skiles and ate his contract.
... and so forth

and Albeck and Floyd and Lamont and LaRussa but you don't need to mention these because they disprove your case. That's good lawyering.

Please don't mis-interpret my remarks and put words in my mouth "counsellor".

:rolleyes:

soxfanreggie
09-25-2011, 01:03 PM
IMO, the focus the next few weeks is on J.R. more than anyone else in this soap opera. We know his reputation of sticking to the letters of each contract, i.e. Pippen, Jackson, Thomas, etc., so I will be curious if he continues with this philosophy (Ozzie signed through 2012, no ifs ands or buts), or whether he is open to trading him to Miami. I do know he will not eat the $2M and just let him walk.

Ozzie has said he won't come back without an extension. I wonder what his options are if JR did say, "I want you to fulfill your existing contract." While that is a possibility, I think JR and Ozzie have a good enough personal relationship to where they would work things out - either a severance or trade to the Marlins. I just can't see success by keeping Ozzie as a lameduck for 2012, and I definitely don't see him getting an extension.

Perhaps Ozzie would have a choice: coach this year and JR/Kenny will evaluate things or take a severance payment where he couldn't coach next year. I'd rather he took the latter if we couldn't work out a deal with the Marlins or another team that wants him for some compensation.

Red Barchetta
09-25-2011, 01:40 PM
Ozzie has said he won't come back without an extension. I wonder what his options are if JR did say, "I want you to fulfill your existing contract." While that is a possibility, I think JR and Ozzie have a good enough personal relationship to where they would work things out - either a severance or trade to the Marlins. I just can't see success by keeping Ozzie as a lameduck for 2012, and I definitely don't see him getting an extension.

Perhaps Ozzie would have a choice: coach this year and JR/Kenny will evaluate things or take a severance payment where he couldn't coach next year. I'd rather he took the latter if we couldn't work out a deal with the Marlins or another team that wants him for some compensation.

That's what makes this so entertaining. Ozzie is still under contract. JR/KW could do nothing and Ozzie is obligated to manage next season under contract. He could also quit and forfeit his remaining salary, however he would not be allowed to manage next season.

However, what if, (and that's a big "if"), the SOX under Ozzie have a fantastic start next season, aka 2005, Dunn miraculously remembers how to hit and Rios is an All-Star candidate by the end of May?! Does Ozzie get an extension? I know it's unlikely, however it's still fun to think about.

dickallen15
09-25-2011, 01:43 PM
I agree this is now the JR show. From what I've read, he's been ducking Ozzie which is understandable because Ozzie talks a lot. The team has kept him out of trade talks and such until they are either made or very close because he has problems keeping his mouth shut.

I agree with Nightengale. Ozzie can come back if he wants to. I just think they are going to make it a situation where he will think Florida is a much better option. No extension, losing some coaches, and I think they will be coaches close to Ozzie like Cora and Cox. For some reason I think if Ozzie is willing to come back next year under those circumstances, he'll be back, but the Miami gig may be gone forever.

The Sox don't want to fire him. They want something out of the Marlins. Could you imagine if Lip's source was correct and the Marlins were willing to give the Sox Morrison for Ozzie and Rios? You just pick up a cheap controlled talent. You get out of an awful contract, and you lose a manager you may have fired anyway, and certainly haven't won much with the past 6 seasons.

Red Barchetta
09-25-2011, 01:54 PM
I agree this is now the JR show. From what I've read, he's been ducking Ozzie which is understandable because Ozzie talks a lot. The team has kept him out of trade talks and such until they are either made or very close because he has problems keeping his mouth shut.

I agree with Nightengale. Ozzie can come back if he wants to. I just think they are going to make it a situation where he will think Florida is a much better option. No extension, losing some coaches, and I think they will be coaches close to Ozzie like Cora and Cox. For some reason I think if Ozzie is willing to come back next year under those circumstances, he'll be back, but the Miami gig may be gone forever.

The Sox don't want to fire him. They want something out of the Marlins. Could you imagine if Lip's source was correct and the Marlins were willing to give the Sox Morrison for Ozzie and Rios? You just pick up a cheap controlled talent. You get out of an awful contract, and you lose a manager you may have fired anyway, and certainly haven't won much with the past 6 seasons.

I agree. Throw in "I can only hit NL pitching", Adam Dunn and we have a winner! :D:

DirtySox
09-25-2011, 02:01 PM
Could you imagine if Lip's source was correct and the Marlins were willing to give the Sox Morrison for Ozzie and Rios? You just pick up a cheap controlled talent. You get out of an awful contract, and you lose a manager you may have fired anyway, and certainly haven't won much with the past 6 seasons.

I'm not sure how they could manage to dump Rios in this scenario unless the majority of his contract is picked up by the Sox. To acquire Logan I'd think the Sox would need to throw some talent in from their side, and Rios certainly is not it.

Vernam
09-25-2011, 02:21 PM
If the Sox can't extract anything out of the Marlins -- wow, I sure hope no one who works for Loria reads WSI! -- I believe JR could rationalize "firing" Ozzie if it's to let him take a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. And that's exactly how he and Ozzie will present it if and when it happens. There may be some kind words thrown by either or both in Kenny's direction, but it's pretty clear he has made his peace with Ozzie leaving. (Now there's one of the all-time understatements.)

Vernam

slavko
09-25-2011, 03:21 PM
If the Sox can't extract anything out of the Marlins -- wow, I sure hope no one who works for Loria reads WSI! -- I believe JR could rationalize "firing" Ozzie if it's to let him take a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. And that's exactly how he and Ozzie will present it if and when it happens. There may be some kind words thrown by either or both in Kenny's direction, but it's pretty clear he has made his peace with Ozzie leaving. (Now there's one of the all-time understatements.)

Vernam

:D: Funny. This might be wishful thinking on all our parts. There's a market for Rios if we cover some cash. Carlos Pena got $9M after a sub-.200 season, so Rios is worth something.

Nellie_Fox
09-26-2011, 12:54 AM
IMO, the focus the next few weeks is on J.R. more than anyone else in this soap opera. We know his reputation of sticking to the letters of each contract, i.e. Pippen, Jackson, Thomas, etc., so I will be curious if he continues with this philosophy (Ozzie signed through 2012, no ifs ands or buts), or whether he is open to trading him to Miami. I do know he will not eat the $2M and just let him walk.The Sox have several options. They can hold him to his contract; then he can either manage, or quit and not get paid and not be allowed to manage anywhere else for the remaining year. They can "let him walk," in which case they owe him nothing and he can go wherever he wishes, so they wouldn't have to eat the contract. Or, they can fire him, and he can either stay home and collect his full salary, or go elsewhere and the Sox would have to pay him the difference between his Sox salary and his new salary, if there is any.

#1swisher
09-26-2011, 03:51 PM
Ozzie: "I'm coming back if they pay me". Met with JR on Monday.

Doug Padilla (http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7023269/chicago-white-sox-ozzie-guillen-meets-owner-jerry-reinsdorf)

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7023269/chicago-white-sox-ozzie-guillen-meets-owner-jerry-reinsdorf

Lip Man 1
09-26-2011, 03:59 PM
Seems like Ozzie has backed JR into a corner with his (what I consider) an ultimatum. Either he gets an extension or ? Would he actually quit and flush down the toilet two million dollars or the chance to manage the Marlins??

We'll see.

Lip

jdm2662
09-26-2011, 04:14 PM
Just wondering if those other coaches / managers JR let go had a full season and two million dollars remaining on the contract?

That could be the great equalizer.

Lip

Not sure the sitution with the Sox managers. However, Skiles signed a 4/16 deal and was fired two months into his third season.

thomas35forever
09-26-2011, 04:35 PM
Not sure the sitution with the Sox managers. However, Skiles signed a 4/16 deal and was fired two months into his third season.
Apples and oranges. However, it'll be very interesting to eventually find out what was said during the meeting.

ChiSoxGal85
09-26-2011, 04:35 PM
MLBtraderumours reported that Jack McKeon is retiring. I wonder if this meeting is related.

Nellie_Fox
09-26-2011, 04:37 PM
MLBtraderumours reported that Jack McKeon is retiring. I wonder if this meeting is related.Tangentially, I suppose, but McKeon made it clear long ago that he was going to be done after this year. He'll be 81 this fall. It's not like it's a sudden opening that people are now scrambling to react to.

thomas35forever
09-26-2011, 04:39 PM
Tangentially, I suppose, but McKeon made it clear long ago that he was going to be done after this year. He'll be 81 this fall. It's not like it's a sudden opening that people are now scrambling to react to.
This. I don't know why people are making a deal out of this story when a bunch of them knew it was coming.

Lip Man 1
09-26-2011, 04:40 PM
Jack actually announced a month or so ago that he wasn't coming back.

Had contact with a good source on this who asked the question, "what's the difference between asking for an extension a month ago or saying 'I'll come back if they pay me'?"

Was told by the way by the same source, that the meeting between JR and Ozzie did not last very long. This source thinks Ozzie is gone and that a deal (I assume with Florida) will be negotiated while he is in Spain.

Place your bets friends and neighbors.

Lip

thomas35forever
09-26-2011, 04:46 PM
Fwiw:
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/#%21/mdgonzales) @mdgonzales (http://twitter.com/#%21/mdgonzales) mark gonzales


no. 13's office door closed

DSpivack
09-26-2011, 04:56 PM
Jack actually announced a month or so ago that he wasn't coming back.

Had contact with a good source on this who asked the question, "what's the difference between asking for an extension a month ago or saying 'I'll come back if they pay me'?"

Was told by the way by the same source, that the meeting between JR and Ozzie did not last very long. This source thinks Ozzie is gone and that a deal (I assume with Florida) will be negotiated while he is in Spain.

Place your bets friends and neighbors.

Lip

Ozzie is going to Spain? :scratch:

Rocky Soprano
09-26-2011, 04:58 PM
Ozzie is going to Spain? :scratch:

He is going on vacation 2 days after the season is over.

DirtySox
09-26-2011, 05:21 PM
Was told by the way by the same source, that the meeting between JR and Ozzie did not last very long. This source thinks Ozzie is gone and that a deal (I assume with Florida) will be negotiated while he is in Spain.

Place your bets friends and neighbors.

Lip

So very excited for this. :smile:

Domeshot17
09-26-2011, 05:44 PM
Jack actually announced a month or so ago that he wasn't coming back.

Had contact with a good source on this who asked the question, "what's the difference between asking for an extension a month ago or saying 'I'll come back if they pay me'?"

Was told by the way by the same source, that the meeting between JR and Ozzie did not last very long. This source thinks Ozzie is gone and that a deal (I assume with Florida) will be negotiated while he is in Spain.

Place your bets friends and neighbors.

Lip

This would be fantastic. Getting rid of Ozzie AND getting something back?! That would be awesome.

ilsox7
09-26-2011, 05:58 PM
MDGonzales Mark Gonzales
Oz said he wouldn't return with only one year left. "I might sound arrogant," ... Fears bad start similar to 2011 would put him in trouble
3 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

To me, this makes it a done deal. His only chance to come back is without any extension. If this is his stance, game over. If this organization actually gave him an extension, I think you'd see fans stay away in droves. Ozzie Guillen is very disconnected from reality.

#1swisher
09-26-2011, 06:09 PM
MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/?lang=en&logged_out=1#%21/MDGonzales)

Ozzie, comments thru Mark. A must read.

DirtySox
09-26-2011, 06:26 PM
cst_Cowley
"**** more years, I want more money. Life is about money. People are happy when they make a lot of money." Oz.
39 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Goose
09-26-2011, 06:29 PM
This, to me, is the telling quote:


»

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/244888190/mug_normal.jpg
MDGonzales (http://twitter.com/#!/MDGonzales) Mark Gonzales



"(Bleep) the years. I want more money."

39 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/MDGonzales/status/118441321387147264)

Which is it Ozzie? You not comfortable honoring your contract because of only one year left or you want to have a money grab?

samurai_sox
09-26-2011, 06:31 PM
cst_Cowley
"**** more years, I want more money. Life is about money. People are happy when they make a lot of money." Oz.
39 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

**** you Ozzie, you son of a bitch

HaroMaster87
09-26-2011, 06:36 PM
i think if hes stays or goes makes little to no difference in the teams performance next year. This is a team full of over paid veterans. Do you think some new manager is going to come in and magically motivate adam dunn to hit? Or alex rios to care??

Goose
09-26-2011, 06:36 PM
cst_Cowley (http://twitter.com/#!/cst_Cowley) cst_Cowley



"They should fire me. I had a great team and they played like ****," Oz. "They have all the right to move on. I take that responsibility."

34 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#!/cst_Cowley/status/118444888844009473)

Seriously, I think Ozzie stopped taking his meds. He is not a stable man. I cant figure him out.

ilsox7
09-26-2011, 06:50 PM
Seriously, I think Ozzie stopped taking his meds. He is not a stable man. I cant figure him out.

He is daring JR to fire him so he can collect is 2 million and go do whatever he wants. He does this, then talks sadly about how it is unfair that JR is in this position. Seems clear to me: Ozzie made a power move versus KW and has apparently lost out. Therefore, he is doing everything he can to get fired, so that, in his warped from reality mind, he is not the bad guy.

I think what Ozzie fails to realize is that anyone who a) has a brain and b) is paying attention thinks he is a complete idiot.

Goose
09-26-2011, 06:52 PM
He is daring JR to fire him so he can collect is 2 million and go do whatever he wants. He does this, then talks sadly about how it is unfair that JR is in this position. Seems clear to me: Ozzie made a power move versus KW and has apparently lost out. Therefore, he is doing everything he can to get fired, so that, in his warped from reality mind, he is not the bad guy.

I think what Ozzie fails to realize is that anyone who a) has a brain and b) is paying attention thinks he is a complete idiot.

I have a 1/2 of a brain and am hardly paying attention and still think he is an idiot, so...ya know...

Risk
09-26-2011, 06:54 PM
This trainwreck of a season can't end soon enough. Thanks for 2005 Ozzie, but now it's time for you to leave. Try to act graciously for a change.

Risk

#1swisher
09-26-2011, 06:57 PM
CST_Cowley (http://twitter.com/?lang=en&logged_out=1#%21/cst_Cowley)

Even better than Gonzales.

- My wife will have to shop less, I will have to drink less, Oney will have to get a job...

- It won't be comfortable for anyone for me to come back here (with current deal)

ilsox7
09-26-2011, 07:05 PM
- My wife will have to shop less, I will have to drink less, Oney will have to get a job...



I have a feeling this quote will go national. And it won't be pretty for Ozzie.

The Immigrant
09-26-2011, 07:07 PM
So much for going out with any dignity, unlike some of the players he helped usher out over the years. What a clown.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-26-2011, 07:08 PM
CST_Cowley (http://twitter.com/?lang=en&logged_out=1#%21/cst_Cowley)

Even better than Gonzales.

- My wife will have to shop less, I will have to drink less, Oney will have to get a job...

- It won't be comfortable for anyone for me to come back here (with current deal)

Oh no, the Prodigal Son will have to join the working masses! Hope none of his future co-workers say anything wrong, lest they end up on the business end of a Twitter whine-fest.

Also, who's taking bets as to when Ozzie gets moved/fired, Oney will have multiple tweets talking crazy **** about the White Sox? I put the over/under at 6.5 individual tweets slamming the organization.

russ99
09-26-2011, 07:11 PM
Did anyone think this breakup wouldn't be messy

While I'm not condoning Ozzie's stance here, do it or get off the pot, Jerry.

He's *****footing around over a few million bucks, akin to many other Sox missteps of late.

Either bring him back or fire him and get it over with...

Btw the whole Florida deal is a pipe dream.

AZChiSoxFan
09-26-2011, 07:14 PM
i think if hes stays or goes makes little to no difference in the teams performance next year. This is a team full of over paid veterans. Do you think some new manager is going to come in and magically motivate adam dunn to hit? Or alex rios to care??

ummm....yes, I do think that. The D-backs lost 90 games in back to back years. Then, they bring in Gibson, and this year they will win between 93 and 96 games.

The year the Sox beat the Stros in the series, didn't Houston get off to a horrible start that year and then changed managers in May?

Yes, managers do make a difference.

Daver
09-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Did anyone think this breakup wouldn't be messy

While I'm not condoning Ozzie's stance here, do it or get off the pot, Jerry.

He's *****footing around over a few million bucks, akin to many other Sox missteps of late.

Either bring him back or fire him and get it over with...

Btw the whole Florida deal is a pipe dream.

Jerry need do nothing, Ozzie is under contract.

Lip Man 1
09-26-2011, 07:19 PM
I shouldn't be surprised but I am over Ozzie's latest comments...what two million a season isn't good enough?

Amazing and sad.

If (when) Ozzie is no longer a part of this two names to keep a close eye on, Davey Martinez and Sandy Alomar Jr. as possible replacements. I'm hearing they'll at least get a sniff from JR and Kenny.

Lip

Goose
09-26-2011, 07:21 PM
Did anyone think this breakup wouldn't be messy

While I'm not condoning Ozzie's stance here, do it or get off the pot, Jerry.

He's *****footing around over a few million bucks, akin to many other Sox missteps of late.

Either bring him back or fire him and get it over with...

Btw the whole Florida deal is a pipe dream.

This is ridiculous!

First off, there is nothing for JR to bring Ozzie back to. Ozzie has a job for next year. It is Ozzie that is yammering on and on about not wanting to come back and honor his contract. He can come back, no one is stopping him, but Ozzie himself.

The *****footing you are talking about is what the rest of us would call negotiation. It is the only other thing the Sox have left.

dickallen15
09-26-2011, 07:25 PM
Ozzie said all his coaches would be back if he's back. I believe that is something the Sox will say no, and no to an extension so Ozzie will be forced to quit and forced to have JR negotiate his move to Miami or he would be jobless next year unless he got a gig setting back baseball fans' english on a network.

Lip Man 1
09-26-2011, 07:25 PM
I don't know how Ozzie himself would feel about being "forced" to come back next year and live up to the contract he signed.

As much as I wouldn't want to think this, it's not beyond Ozzie to simply go through the motions completely in that case out of spite.

Lip

ZombieRob
09-26-2011, 07:33 PM
I shouldn't be surprised but I am over Ozzie's latest comments...what two million a season isn't good enough?

Amazing and sad.

If (when) Ozzie is no longer a part of this two names to keep a close eye on, Davey Martinez and Sandy Alomar Jr. as possible replacements. I'm hearing they'll at least get a sniff from JR and Kenny.

Lip
Will we get the huge Beard as well? :D: I like it. He's learned under the best IMO manager in baseball.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll3t16CMhD1qccki6.jpg

Goose
09-26-2011, 07:34 PM
I don't know how Ozzie himself would feel about being "forced" to come back next year and live up to the contract he signed.

As much as I wouldn't want to think this, it's not beyond Ozzie to simply go through the motions completely in that case out of spite.

Lip

You're right. Ozzie would go through the motions out of spite if he had no other offers. I do think, though, that he has had informal discussions with people in the Marlins organization, however indirect they may be.

What Ozzie is too stupid to realize though is that he could call JRs bluff and say "Sure, I come back and finish the contract". he would then place the ball in JR's court. Instead of that though, he says he will not come back to a 1 year deal (remaining). Then he says "**** the years, I want more money", then he says "I did a terrible job, they have every right to fire me"...he is all over the board here and he is screwing up his leverage.

I should stop before I give him any ideas.

#1swisher
09-26-2011, 07:36 PM
Ozzie wants a multi-year deal.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/09/26/ozzies-not-coming-back-without-a-multi-year-deal/?utm_source=sports&utm_medium=dl&utm_campaign=ozzie%E2%80%99s-not-coming-back-without-a-multi-year-deal

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-26-2011, 07:42 PM
Ozzie wants a multi-year deal.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/09/26/ozzies-not-coming-back-without-a-multi-year-deal/?utm_source=sports&utm_medium=dl&utm_campaign=ozzie%E2%80%99s-not-coming-back-without-a-multi-year-deal

He's not getting it here, that's for sure.

russ99
09-26-2011, 07:45 PM
This is ridiculous!

First off, there is nothing for JR to bring Ozzie back to. Ozzie has a job for next year. It is Ozzie that is yammering on and on about not wanting to come back and honor his contract. He can come back, no one is stopping him, but Ozzie himself.

The *****footing you are talking about is what the rest of us would call negotiation. It is the only other thing the Sox have left.

Please, if he had a job for next year, that would have been spelled out already.

BTW - the lame duck manager thing is not unprecedented. Even this year Jim Riggleman got fired in DC for pushing for an extension because he didn't want to be left hanging for 3 month over his status.

The way I see it is this: Ozzie's gone, Jerry pays $2M. If he stays, an extension for a year is (give or take) $2M. Jerry is giving him no assurances for next year and wants to pay nothing and cut him loose later if he gets a good offer from Florida. They're letting the guy hang. Out of spite?

Real "Sox family"... The man got us a damn ring, he should know his future one way or the other. If they don't want him back, let him go.

GlassSox
09-26-2011, 07:47 PM
Last Friday I was walking around in Bucktown with friends and I was hoping to see a moving fan with Miami or Bust painted on the side. Unfortunately, no luck. :(:

Goose
09-26-2011, 07:52 PM
Please, if he had a job for next year, that would have been spelled out already.

BTW - the lame duck manager thing is not unprecedented. Even this year Jim Riggleman got fired in DC for pushing for an extension because he didn't want to be left hanging for 3 month over his status.

The way I see it is this: Ozzie's gone, Jerry pays $2M. If he stays, an extension for a year is (give or take) $2M. Jerry is giving him no assurances for next year and wants to pay nothing and cut him loose later if he gets a good offer from Florida. They're letting the guy hang. Out of spite?

Real "Sox family"... The man got us a damn ring, he should know his future one way or the other. If they don't want him back, let him go.


He has a job next year managing the White Sox. He has no job for the year after.

I am sick and tired of sports figures signing contracts and then not abiding by them. Finish what you agreed to or leave on your own accord. If he is willing to spend next year in Venezuela because he is not getting an extension, then he is willing to quit and move on.

The last time I checked, you get rewarded for excellence and performing above expectations. Ozzie has sucked to high heaven for the last 3 years. But "**** the years", he wants more money.

**** him.

BTW - I do not like what Riggleman did either, but at least he set a deadline and followed through. Ozzie doesnt have the balls to do that. He is interested in money and that is all. Again - **** him!

ilsox7
09-26-2011, 07:54 PM
He has a job next year managing the White Sox. He has no job for the year after.

I am sick and tired of sports figures signing contracts and then not abiding by them. Finish what you agreed to or leave on your own accord. If he is willing to spend next year in Venezuela because he is not getting an extension, then he is willing to quit and move on.

The last time I checked, you get rewarded for excellence and performing above expectations. Ozzie has sucked to high heaven for the last 3 years. But "**** the years", he wants more money.

**** him.

It's stunning that Ozzie has at least fooled some folks. Apparently, employment contracts are figments of our imagination.

Domeshot17
09-26-2011, 09:16 PM
Please, if he had a job for next year, that would have been spelled out already.

BTW - the lame duck manager thing is not unprecedented. Even this year Jim Riggleman got fired in DC for pushing for an extension because he didn't want to be left hanging for 3 month over his status.

The way I see it is this: Ozzie's gone, Jerry pays $2M. If he stays, an extension for a year is (give or take) $2M. Jerry is giving him no assurances for next year and wants to pay nothing and cut him loose later if he gets a good offer from Florida. They're letting the guy hang. Out of spite?

Real "Sox family"... The man got us a damn ring, he should know his future one way or the other. If they don't want him back, let him go.

Give me a break. 2005 has an expiration date. You don't give him an extension because 6 years ago he won a title. You make him earn his extension, which he did not do, see you later Ozzie.

GoSox2K3
09-26-2011, 09:29 PM
Did anyone think this breakup wouldn't be messy

While I'm not condoning Ozzie's stance here, do it or get off the pot, Jerry.

He's *****footing around over a few million bucks, akin to many other Sox missteps of late.

Either bring him back or fire him and get it over with...

Btw the whole Florida deal is a pipe dream.

:rolling:

I'm beginning to think your comments are just a shtick.

Yeah, JR what an insult to let Ozzie twist in the wind with his guaranteed through 2012 contract!

:kneeslap::roflmao::lol:

Frater Perdurabo
09-26-2011, 09:53 PM
Did anyone think this breakup wouldn't be messy

While I'm not condoning Ozzie's stance here, do it or get off the pot, Jerry.

He's *****footing around over a few million bucks, akin to many other Sox missteps of late.

Either bring him back or fire him and get it over with...

Btw the whole Florida deal is a pipe dream.

Why should Jerry fire Ozzie now? It's MUCH better for Jerry if Ozzie quits, because then Jerry DOESN'T owe him for next year, and also because the Sox can demand compensation from the Marlins to hire him for 2012.