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Jerry_Manuel
07-14-2002, 03:01 PM
Kenny Williams says Manuel will remain through 2003 (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20020714&content_id=81606&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)

White Sox general manager Ken Williams reiterated Sunday that manager Jerry Manuel is not in danger of becoming the 10th manager to lose his job this season despite losing three straight to the last-place Detroit Tigers and falling nine games back of Minnesota in the AL Central race.
But Williams went one step further, saying Manuel was safe through the end of the 2002 season "and next."

"Jerry Manuel is the manager of the Chicago White Sox and will not be fired," Williams said. "Spread the word."

BuehrleACE56
07-14-2002, 03:07 PM
that sucks

PaleHoseGeorge
07-14-2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Kenny Williams says Manuel will remain through 2003 (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20020714&content_id=81606&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)



Sorry, but this sounds like the kiss of death.

Let's look at the bright side. Maybe KW got word from JR that he was safe, so KW thought it was safe to announce Manuel was safe, too. Except in reality, it was KW who just received the kiss of death!

Ah, dreams...

:)

duke of dorwood
07-14-2002, 03:21 PM
Only in this organization is there no limit on how much you can underachieve.

Jerry_Manuel
07-14-2002, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Sorry, but this sounds like the kiss of death.

Let's look at the bright side. Maybe KW got word from JR that he was safe, so KW thought it was safe to announce Manuel was safe, too. Except in reality, it was KW who just received the kiss of death!


I was thinking along the samelines. Williams has come out twice now and said he was safe. Only problem is Manuel has another two seasons left on his deal.

I don't think the chariman wants to pay an ex-employee for two more years.

kermittheefrog
07-14-2002, 03:33 PM
WOOHOO! He's good as gone. When GMs say things like that it means the end is near.

Jerry_Manuel
07-14-2002, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
WOOHOO! He's good as gone. When GMs say things like that it means the end is near.

We should ask Tony Muser about this. He recieved the ol' vote of confidence a number of times.

HawkDJ
07-14-2002, 03:52 PM
As did Don Baylor on the north side

TornLabrum
07-14-2002, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I was thinking along the samelines. Williams has come out twice now and said he was safe. Only problem is Manuel has another two seasons left on his deal.

I don't think the chariman wants to pay an ex-employee for two more years.

That's the operative scenario right now. Manuel could lead this club into the cellar and he'll keep his job just so Reinsdorf doesn't have to pay an ex-employee for two whole years. In this case the "vote of confidence" is more like an admission of this fact. :angry:

bc2k
07-14-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Kenny Williams says Manuel will remain through 2003 (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20020714&content_id=81606&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)



Through 2003? How can a GM make a guarantee that far into the future? No job should be guaranteed. What happened to successfully performing a job to earn future tenure?

I bet this means Nardi is guaranteed a job through 2003 as well since he's part of Manuel's staff.

Sox fans, like stockholders should receive pamphlets in the mail and vote on important issues with the team.
Question 1. Should Jerry Manuel be fired?
Question 2. Should Nardi be fired?

Why am I a White Sox fan?

Paulwny
07-14-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by bc2k

Why am I a White Sox fan?

We like to beat our heads against a wall.

Tragg
07-14-2002, 06:45 PM
I wouldn't worry about 2003 per se. I think they usually work with a cushion year anyway. When KW extends, then worry.

wassagstdu
07-14-2002, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by bc2k

Why am I a White Sox fan?

Does anyone on this board have anything good to say about anything connected with the Sox? Is this glass 47.3% full or 52.7% empty? Grub fans have a lot of problems, but supporting their team is not one of them. "Dump Manuel, dump Ordonez, dump Cayton, dump Lee, dump Lofton, dump Valentin, dump Durham -- but GO SOX!?"

FarWestChicago
07-14-2002, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by wassagstdu

Does anyone on this board have anything good to say about anything connected with the Sox? Is this glass 47.3% full or 52.7% empty? Grub fans have a lot of problems, but supporting their team is not one of them. "Dump Manuel, dump Ordonez, dump Cayton, dump Lee, dump Lofton, dump Valentin, dump Durham -- but GO SOX!?" There are a few of us who aren't in the "dump everybody" camp, but we are few and far between.

RedPinStripes
07-14-2002, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by wassagstdu

Does anyone on this board have anything good to say about anything connected with the Sox? Is this glass 47.3% full or 52.7% empty? Grub fans have a lot of problems, but supporting their team is not one of them. "Dump Manuel, dump Ordonez, dump Cayton, dump Lee, dump Lofton, dump Valentin, dump Durham -- but GO SOX!?"

And what positives do you see with a cheap owner who puts his friends before championships. And a GM who has taken this farm system from 1st to close to last. Lose 3 out of 5 to the tigers, NO WS RING IN 85 YEARS! That just might piss off a few fans knowing KW will be making trades and he hasn't landed a good one yet. How positive can you be when your team has no chance to get to the playoffs in the worst division in baseball?

O yeah, and a complete group of idiots for a coaching staff. So many positives!

Daver
07-14-2002, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


And what positives do you see with a cheap owner who puts his friends before championships. And a GM who has taken this farm system from 1st to close to last.

The only place the Sox minor league system is rated out of the top fifteen is Baseball Weekly,and their rankings are based on the current performance of the teams,not a talent evaluation of the teams makeup.With this years draft the Sox will be back in the top ten by next spring.

Soxheads
07-14-2002, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
There are a few of us who aren't in the "dump everybody" camp, but we are few and far between.

I'd like to see most of this team back by next year. There's really only one person I'd like to see.....

:firenardi

RedPinStripes
07-14-2002, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by daver


The only place the Sox minor league system is rated out of the top fifteen is Baseball Weekly,and their rankings are based on the current performance of the teams,not a talent evaluation of the teams makeup.With this years draft the Sox will be back in the top ten by next spring.

I hope so.

Jerry_Manuel
07-14-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
I'd like to see most of this team back by next year.


No dice, Heads. The kids can play!

RedPinStripes
07-14-2002, 08:46 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


No dice, Heads. The kids can play!

And maybe they'll bring their "A" game! :)

WinningUgly!
07-14-2002, 08:57 PM
"Jerry Manuel is the manager of the Chicago White Sox and will not be fired," Williams said. "Spread the word."


Reminds me of how they said the Titanic was unsinkable before it's maiden voyage. :D:

RedPinStripes
07-14-2002, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


Reminds me of how they said the Titanic was unsinkable before it's maiden voyage. :D:

LOL!

Bucktown
07-14-2002, 11:06 PM
For the record I am a Jerry Manuel fan (although I would like to see some better small ball).

Furthermore, I am not in the fire Nardi camp. I think he has done a good job bringing along Beuhrle, Garland and Wells (oops). I think he can do the same for Rauch and Wright. That would be our 2003 rotation if it weren't for Kenny Williams. I still think the remaining 4 will be very strong next year.

Speaking of which, KW is the guy to fire. Undoubtedly the worst GM in baseball. He should be fired based upon the Baldwin and Wells trades alone.

HawkDJ
07-14-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
For the record I am a Jerry Manuel fan
Furthermore, I am not in the fire Nardi camp.

You better run for cover after those statements.

LongDistanceFan
07-14-2002, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by wassagstdu

Does anyone on this board have anything good to say about anything connected with the Sox? Is this glass 47.3% full or 52.7% empty? Grub fans have a lot of problems, but supporting their team is not one of them. "Dump Manuel, dump Ordonez, dump Cayton, dump Lee, dump Lofton, dump Valentin, dump Durham -- but GO SOX!?" that being said, are you happy with the current team and would you mind everyone back? which players would you want to be moved?

Randar68
07-14-2002, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
For the record I am a Jerry Manuel fan (although I would like to see some better small ball).

Furthermore, I am not in the fire Nardi camp. I think he has done a good job bringing along Beuhrle, Garland and Wells (oops). I think he can do the same for Rauch and Wright.

Buehrle and Garland: soft tossers
Wright and Rauch: hard throwers

Nardi has never been able to coach hard throwers (see Kip). However, he is a decent coach when it comes to soft-tossers. However, if Wright or Rauch succeed in the majors with Nardi as their pitching coach, it is in SPITE of him, not because of him.

LongDistanceFan
07-14-2002, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Kenny Williams says Manuel will remain through 2003 (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cws/news/cws_news.jsp?ymd=20020714&content_id=81606&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp)

in todays suntimes, they had another article with kw again saying that the blame is all his. even suggesting that, the trade with pitt and ritchie.

so he admitted that its his fault, what do people want him to do?

MattSharp
07-14-2002, 11:16 PM
This article makes me wanna puke. I hate KW, and am growing very tired of the White Sox organization....

Randar68
07-14-2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
in todays suntimes, they had another article with kw again saying that the blame is all his. even suggesting that, the trade with pitt and ritchie.

so he admitted that its his fault, what do people want him to do?

I admire his loyalty and his willingness to point the finger at himself. However, if anyone here can say this team should not be above .500 with it's talent, they are smoking crack. Jerry tinkers and toils and has no balls to stand up to the players. Player's coaches rarely last more than a couple years and it is because the players eventually take advantage of them. Jerry is already past that point.

Daver
07-14-2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Buehrle and Garland: soft tossers
Wright and Rauch: hard throwers

Nardi has never been able to coach hard throwers (see Kip). However, he is a decent coach when it comes to soft-tossers. However, if Wright or Rauch succeed in the majors with Nardi as their pitching coach, it is in SPITE of him, not because of him.

Wouldn't have anything to do with rotten mechanics he is teaching them would it? Or the fact that he can't notice when a pitcher is tipping his pitches when I can see it on TV? Nardi sucks and should be fired.

Randar68
07-14-2002, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by daver


Wouldn't have anything to do with rotten mechanics he is teaching them would it? Or the fact that he can't notice when a pitcher is tipping his pitches when I can see it on TV? Nardi sucks and should be fired.

Well, if one of our pitchers is tipping his pitches, Nossek should bepaying closer attention. If he is supposedly one of the best at picking it up for opposing pitchers, he should be paying closer attention to our pitchers.

Also, Daver, which pitchers do you see tipping pitches? Don't tell me how they are doing it, I just want to pay closer attention to see if I can pick it up. Usually, I'm watching the catcher or mechanics.....

Daver
07-14-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Well, if one of our pitchers is tipping his pitches, Nossek should bepaying closer attention. If he is supposedly one of the best at picking it up for opposing pitchers, he should be paying closer attention to our pitchers.

Also, Daver, which pitchers do you see tipping pitches? Don't tell me how they are doing it, I just want to pay closer attention to see if I can pick it up. Usually, I'm watching the catcher or mechanics.....

Early in the season it was Rauch,latley it is Glover and on occasion Garland.

Wright always tips them when he is struggling,but when he isn't he is clean.

Osuna never tips,but you can always tell when Howry is going to try to throw a change up.

Foulke has developed a pattern where he starts out with the first pitch is a fastball and the next two are change ups followed by a fastball,that is why batters are waiting him out and hitting him hard.

Paulwny
07-15-2002, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!


Reminds me of how they said the Titanic was unsinkable before it's maiden voyage. :D:

Novices built the arc, professionals built the Titanic.

wassagstdu
07-15-2002, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
that being said, are you happy with the current team and would you mind everyone back? which players would you want to be moved?
I think the Sox are solid 3 through 9. Kenny Lofton is a great player who is struggling with a physical problem right now, but he was an outstanding acquisition. Maglio Ordonez is just plain solid, offensively and defensively, and steady. Jose Valentin is one of those players who can turn it up a notch in the clutch and find a way to win (nobody can succeed every time), and he can play on my team. Royce Clayton has all the tools, defensively and offensively. Much as I liked Ozzie, Clayton is probably the best defensive shortstop since Aparicio. Ray Durham has gotten better every year to the point where he is a first rate second baseman. Paul Konerko is possibly the best first baseman the Sox have had in my lifetime. Carlos Lee seems lately to have worked his way out of a long slump and has improved a lot as a left fielder -- for which he deserves respect. And Jerry Manuel is a class act and a fine manager. That's what I like. On the other hand the young pitchers haven't developed consistency as fast as we all would have liked, but that is a work in progress.

This is really a good team. What are they 2-14 in one-run games?Reverse that and how would the team look? That's how close they are. (And I do think a lot of that is luck, which tends to even out over time) Last time I looked the Sox were second in MLB in runs scored but way down in pitching. For my money the answer is patience, give the young pitchers time to settle in. It's not like we have a now-or-never situation. It's more like an are-we-there-yet. I like the strategy and I like the direction. Some of the pieces will have to be replaced before the pitching matures, but that is natural, and it has nothing to do with the reason the team is now sub .500.

That's the way it looks to me, and believe me I have not always been that positive over the frustrating years.

LongDistanceFan
07-15-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by wassagstdu

I think the Sox are solid 3 through 9. Kenny Lofton is a great player who is struggling with a physical problem right now, but he was an outstanding acquisition. Maglio Ordonez is just plain solid, offensively and defensively, and steady. Jose Valentin is one of those players who can turn it up a notch in the clutch and find a way to win (nobody can succeed every time), and he can play on my team. Royce Clayton has all the tools, defensively and offensively. Much as I liked Ozzie, Clayton is probably the best defensive shortstop since Aparicio. Ray Durham has gotten better every year to the point where he is a first rate second baseman. Paul Konerko is possibly the best first baseman the Sox have had in my lifetime. Carlos Lee seems lately to have worked his way out of a long slump and has improved a lot as a left fielder -- for which he deserves respect. And Jerry Manuel is a class act and a fine manager. That's what I like. On the other hand the young pitchers haven't developed consistency as fast as we all would have liked, but that is a work in progress.

This is really a good team. What are they 2-14 in one-run games?Reverse that and how would the team look? That's how close they are. (And I do think a lot of that is luck, which tends to even out over time) Last time I looked the Sox were second in MLB in runs scored but way down in pitching. For my money the answer is patience, give the young pitchers time to settle in. It's not like we have a now-or-never situation. It's more like an are-we-there-yet. I like the strategy and I like the direction. Some of the pieces will have to be replaced before the pitching matures, but that is natural, and it has nothing to do with the reason the team is now sub .500.

That's the way it looks to me, and believe me I have not always been that positive over the frustrating years.

ok, that was a good post, but i can't see how you can compare our team with any team. we have glaring holes and it can't be fixed by having patience. this team needs to improve and the only way to do that is by changing personal.

i see that you have omitted big frank the the catching positions.

what i find disturbing is what you have to say about clayton, about all the all the tools offensively........ that i will disagree with you.

so you do not want to move anybody uh?

PaleHoseGeorge
07-15-2002, 08:28 PM
There is no doubt in my mind that with KW doing the trades, the Sox would emerge even weaker after the housecleaning, both for the immediate future and the long-term. He'll trade all the talented players for scraps, keep all the trash nobody else wants, and probably still manage to raise the payroll $10 million in the process, too.

:hawk
"Sounds a bit like my tenure back in '86!"

:ohno
"The franchise didn't recover for four years, and nearly perished in the aftermath of one season with a lousy GM."

:hawk
"You can put it on the board..."

LongDistanceFan
07-15-2002, 08:30 PM
:)

your faith in you boy is amazing.......

:D: