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Brian26
09-11-2011, 02:57 PM
This is the first time I've seen Viciedo play RF in person.

After three innings, its pretty obvious that his range is awful. If the ball is not hit right at him, he has no chance.

He looks worse than Dye in late 2009.

Just another headache for the offseason, as it is clear he's not going to be a long term RF option or replacement for Quentin.

BainesHOF
09-11-2011, 03:21 PM
Assuming Quentin is traded, I'm thinking the outfield should be Viciedo in left, De Aza in center and, gulp, Rios in right.

DirtySox
09-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Pretty much what all scouting reports and sources have reported all year. This might come as a shock to those who saw him twice in spring training and deemed him good.

Daver
09-11-2011, 03:23 PM
This is the first time I've seen Viciedo play RF in person.

After three innings, its pretty obvious that his range is awful. If the ball is not hit right at him, he has no chance.

He looks worse than Dye in late 2009.

Just another headache for the offseason, as it is clear he's not going to be a long term RF option or replacement for Quentin.


He's got a good arm, that's all you need to play right, just ask all the experts here at WSI.

KMcMahon817
09-11-2011, 03:41 PM
Trading Carlos would be very dumb. I think the SOX should put Viciedo in a platoon with Lillibridge in LF. Lilly gets the starts in LF against LHP while The Tank DHs and Dunn sits. Quentin stay in RF, Rios in CF and De Aza can fill in a few times a week at any position.

If payroll needs to be cut, do it by not resigning Buehrle and putting Sale into the rotation. Sheds about 15M off the payroll and I believe Sale will be a top-end of the rotation starter. I obviously would love for Buehrle to be with the SOX for the rest of his career, but something has to give.

WhiteSox5187
09-11-2011, 04:55 PM
We haven't had a good right fielder in awhile. I think we could survive with Vicideo in left though but I am not sure because I haven't seen him play the outfield in person.

Noneck
09-11-2011, 05:18 PM
This is a guy that has looked bad at every position he has tried to play. He has DH written all over him.

Lip Man 1
09-11-2011, 05:35 PM
He's already better than Dunn...and cheaper too.

Lip

Brian26
09-11-2011, 05:43 PM
He let that ball by Santana skip right past him in the 8th inning. I'm glad he threw Crowe out at the plate, but the three balls that fell in front of him in the 2nd and 3rd along with the Santana misplay that rolled to the wall were just terrible.

WhiteSox5187
09-11-2011, 05:53 PM
This is a guy that has looked bad at every position he has tried to play. He has DH written all over him.

Has he played first yet?

Frater Perdurabo
09-11-2011, 05:54 PM
Trading Carlos would be very dumb. I think the SOX should put Viciedo in a platoon with Lillibridge in LF. Lilly gets the starts in LF against LHP while The Tank DHs and Dunn sits. Quentin stay in RF, Rios in CF and De Aza can fill in a few times a week at any position.

If payroll needs to be cut, do it by not resigning Buehrle and putting Sale into the rotation. Sheds about 15M off the payroll and I believe Sale will be a top-end of the rotation starter. I obviously would love for Buehrle to be with the SOX for the rest of his career, but something has to give.

I agree with your first paragraph, but not the second. I think allowing Buehrle to leave would lead to a decrease in season ticket sales worse than what already should be expected as a result of this disappointing season. I think the Sox need to squeeze out their payroll savings from not re-signing expensive veterans like Pierre, Vizquel, Castro, Pena; replacing them with inexpensive young players; and if necessary, non-tendering or trading expensive relievers like Frasor, Ohman and/or Thornton.

vinny
09-11-2011, 06:21 PM
I think the fact that Crowe was thrown out at home reflects poorly on Crowe more than it reflects positively on Viciedo. It was stupid to try and score on a shallow single like that. Viciedo's throw was pretty high too; if Crowe slides he's probably safe.

DrCrawdad
09-11-2011, 06:45 PM
He's got a good arm, that's all you need to play right, just ask all the experts here at WSI.

I don't know who's said that here, but I know it wasn't me, because clearly you need more than a strong arm. As an example...

Alfonso Soriano, in the past, had a very strong arm and probably relatively decent range but I don't believe that even the biggest KoolAid drinkers suggested he play RF. Soriano had a very strong arm but no aptitude for the outfield and probably no aptitude for the infield either.

slavko
09-11-2011, 07:35 PM
I don't know who's said that here, but I know it wasn't me, because clearly you need more than a strong arm. As an example...

Alfonso Soriano, in the past, had a very strong arm and probably relatively decent range but I don't believe that even the biggest KoolAid drinkers suggested he play RF. Soriano had a very strong arm but no aptitude for the outfield and probably no aptitude for the infield either.

Soriano played 2B in the majors for 5 years and proved his aptitude there (not much). When the Nats got him and wanted to move him to the OF, he said he wouldn't play there, but eventually gave in.

Noneck
09-11-2011, 07:57 PM
Has he played first yet?


Yes

doublem23
09-11-2011, 09:12 PM
Oh well, three innings, just the give the guy his outright release, we all know every ballplayer peaks at 22

JB98
09-11-2011, 09:32 PM
Viciedo's not very good out there right now. I was at today's game also and agree with Brian26's observations.

That said, Viciedo's still a young player. Give him more opportunities and see if he gets better. It's not like this team is a legitimate contender for anything anyway.

Noneck
09-11-2011, 09:54 PM
Viciedo's not very good out there right now. I was at today's game also and agree with Brian26's observations.

That said, Viciedo's still a young player. Give him more opportunities and see if he gets better. It's not like this team is a legitimate contender for anything anyway.


He is young but just has not been good at any position he has ever played. I suppose he could get better with more tutoring and playing time. I was wondering if he will be playing winter ball.

JB98
09-11-2011, 11:27 PM
He is young but just has not been good at any position he has ever played. I suppose he could get better with more tutoring and playing time. I was wondering if he will be playing winter ball.

You're correct. The bat looks good and goodness knows the Sox need run producers. The kid has even taken some walks since his recall. He does look much more disciplined at the plate than at any time last year.

You just hope that Viciedo can become adequate in RF and produce more runs with his bat than he lets in with his glove. Right now, the defense isn't good enough. At the moment, he's a DH. Of course the Sox do have a hole at DH, and that's something to consider.

tstrike2000
09-12-2011, 12:01 AM
This is the first time I've seen Viciedo play RF in person.

After three innings, its pretty obvious that his range is awful. If the ball is not hit right at him, he has no chance.

He looks worse than Dye in late 2009.

Just another headache for the offseason, as it is clear he's not going to be a long term RF option or replacement for Quentin.

Yeah, when I saw Viciedo on TV lumbering toward that double hit by Carlos Santana in the eighth, it didn't look good.

BigKlu59
09-12-2011, 12:57 AM
He's already better than Dunn...and cheaper too.

Lip

POTY.... Yup, this young bull makes you wanna take "Ole Ferdinand" to the slaughterhouse..

BK59

TomBradley72
09-12-2011, 04:00 AM
He's already better than Dunn...and cheaper too.

Lip

One more reason the signing of Dunn was quetionable- Viciedo is a good young hitter without a position- you just re-signed Konerko for 1B and you have Morel at 3rd- seems like a likely (and cheap) DH- but then you lock up the Big Donkey for 5 years/$54M-

Nellie_Fox
09-12-2011, 12:21 PM
One thing I've picked up on from WSI posters is to listen to the subliminal messages Hawk sends, as they are likely what White Sox management wants us to believe. It's like the Kremlin-watchers of the cold war who tried to figure out what they were doing based on statements made by Pravda.

Hawk commented yesterday on how good Viciedo was looking in right. Does that mean the Sox are preparing us for Viciedo being the full-time right fielder next year?

Don't take this to be a Hawk bashing. I still enjoy him. However, Reinsdorf has stated that they still "consult" with Hawk regularly, so I'm fairly certain Hawk is privy to that kind of information.

KMcMahon817
09-12-2011, 12:21 PM
One more reason the signing of Dunn was quetionable- Viciedo is a good young hitter without a position- you just re-signed Konerko for 1B and you have Morel at 3rd- seems like a likely (and cheap) DH- but then you lock up the Big Donkey for 5 years/$54M-

It is only 4 years (and $56M), but your point is still valid. On the other hand, no one saw this coming.

We all just need to hope and pray that Adam somehow finds his swing before next year because well...he's our DH.

TomBradley72
09-12-2011, 12:26 PM
It is only 4 years (and $56M), but your point is still valid. On the other hand, no one saw this coming.

We all just need to hope and pray that Adam somehow finds his swing before next year because well...he's our DH.

No one could have seen the .165 batting average-but it was pretty obvious that Viciedo is a good hitter without a defensive position- so maybe invest the $14M/yr. in a position that is harder to fill than DH.

SI1020
09-12-2011, 12:30 PM
Oh well, three innings, just the give the guy his outright release, we all know every ballplayer peaks at 22 No it's just that some of us who have watched or followed him since the very beginning know how he lacks defensively. I thought his best shot was at first, but the outfield is where he is needed so that is where he will play. When Dye lost his speed and mobility and TCQ first played extensively in RF many posters noticed that a fly ball in that area could be an adventure. The same will be true with Viciedo. He needs good coaching and lots of work to become adequate in the field. If he hits like we think he can, he'll have a nice career.

dickallen15
09-12-2011, 01:18 PM
One thing I've picked up on from WSI posters is to listen to the subliminal messages Hawk sends, as they are likely what White Sox management wants us to believe. It's like the Kremlin-watchers of the cold war who tried to figure out what they were doing based on statements made by Pravda.

Hawk commented yesterday on how good Viciedo was looking in right. Does that mean the Sox are preparing us for Viciedo being the full-time right fielder next year?

Don't take this to be a Hawk bashing. I still enjoy him. However, Reinsdorf has stated that they still "consult" with Hawk regularly, so I'm fairly certain Hawk is privy to that kind of information.


Ozzie had nice things to say about Viciedo in RF and so has Buddy Bell. It may be to placate him, like they used to do with Carlos Lee, but I think he's better than a few people think, and will be at least adequate if he can keep his weight in check.

blandman
09-12-2011, 01:35 PM
Oh well, three innings, just the give the guy his outright release, we all know every ballplayer peaks at 22

By this logic at 22 the Brewers should have given Prince Fielder a shot at learning shortstop.

Viciedo is going to have a hard enough time at 1B or LF. He has no business in right.

doublem23
09-12-2011, 01:50 PM
By this logic at 22 the Brewers should have given Prince Fielder a shot at learning shortstop.

Viciedo is going to have a hard enough time at 1B or LF. He has no business in right.

Yes, SS = RF. Good one.

blandman
09-12-2011, 02:04 PM
Yes, SS = RF. Good one.

Would it help if I said Prince Fielder in RF?

It's still stupid to expect a guy with Viciedo's tools to play RF. He's never going to have even adequate range out there. I have serious doubts he'll even be adequate in left.

slavko
09-12-2011, 02:19 PM
One thing I've picked up on from WSI posters is to listen to the subliminal messages Hawk sends, as they are likely what White Sox management wants us to believe. It's like the Kremlin-watchers of the cold war who tried to figure out what they were doing based on statements made by Pravda.


Watching the "team pictures" to see who was missing and trying to figure out if they were managing a power plant in the Ural mountains or digging a tunnel in Siberia. Happy Days.

NLaloosh
09-12-2011, 07:24 PM
It is only 4 years (and $56M), but your point is still valid. On the other hand, no one saw this coming.

We all just need to hope and pray that Adam somehow finds his swing before next year because well...he's our DH.

This is the truth. Anyone that thinks Dunn is going to be benched or platooned next year hasn't been paying attention.

While sitting Dunn a little here and there Ozzie has still played him in crucial situations during a playoff chase, against left handers and while they are out of the race and with September callups sitting on the bench.

He has even said that he makes too much to sit. Ozzie won't even pinch hit for him in the late innings with the game on the line.

Next year Dunn will DH, the Sox will suffer with Viciedo's defense somewhere and Quentin will likely be gone because of $$$.

Dunn will be better next year - possibly a .210 average with 25 home runs. That's probably the best the Sox will get from him. He's never going to hit for the Sox like he did in the NL.

Can the Sox win the division next year with Peavy, Rios and Dunn making slight improvements ? Will the pitching be good enough to overcome an offense that will be middle of the pack at best?

Brian26
09-12-2011, 09:45 PM
Oh well, three innings, just the give the guy his outright release, we all know every ballplayer peaks at 22

I never said that, Doub. I said he's not going to be a RF.

Let's face it, this kid is going to get bigger and stronger as he matures. He's already a mass of humanity in RF who let three balls drop in front of him yesterday and one ball skip past him. He can learn how to read balls, but I think his physical presence is always going to limit what he can do in the outfield. Look at video of Frank Thomas when he came up in '90 at County Stadium and then look at his frame five years later. Imagine Frank in RF in 1990 (not out of the realm of possibility, but not the best fit). Imagine him trying to play out there later in his career. Bottom line, Viciedo needs to be either a 1B or DH.

Unfortunately, we've got a good 1B now, a DH with an unmovable contract, and the current RF is probably the most movable piece during the offseason. Thus, headache.

Nelfox02
09-12-2011, 10:06 PM
Next year Dunn will DH, the Sox will suffer with Viciedo's defense somewhere and Quentin will likely be gone because of $$$.




I think you are 100% dead on......but that does not make that notion any less depressing........:whiner: