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thomas35forever
09-10-2011, 07:38 PM
Rios?! Wow!:shocked:

kevingrt
09-10-2011, 07:39 PM
What just happened?

mccoydp
09-10-2011, 07:39 PM
Holy ****. Nice way to end a game!

LITTLE NELL
09-10-2011, 07:44 PM
Walk off Grand Slams are nice, way to go Alex.

Domeshot17
09-10-2011, 07:44 PM
nice that someone finally came through.

Was anyone else kind of pissed about Ozzie just screwing around with that fishing pole? I know your season is over, but people there still paid money, atleast pretend like your head is in the game.

Aesero
09-10-2011, 07:45 PM
Grand slams are nice and all, but this is all I saw:

Adam Dunn was not pinch hit for in the ninth against a left handed pitcher.
Alejandro de Aza, one of our hottest hitters, was pinch hit for right after Dunn.

Russ or bland you guys want to take this one?

I'd love to hear how Ozzie has to play everyone on the roster and how he favored the Dunn matchup.

October26
09-10-2011, 07:46 PM
This game was beyond frustrating to watch. I wanted throw something at the TV.

I left the gamethread to go outside and cut the grass. Came back when I heard Farmeo's awesome home run call!

I was happy to see the replay several times of Alex Rios hitting the grand slam walk-off homer. Always glad to see a White Sox winner! :bandance:

amsteel
09-10-2011, 07:46 PM
Frustrating win. Letting Dunn hit in the 9th is a joke. No one between himself, Ozzie, and Kenny have the stones to tell Dunn "You're ****ing terrible and cost this team 5-10 games this year, sit down and think about what you have done."

soxfan1965
09-10-2011, 07:53 PM
Good job Rios! This has to be your best day as a Sox, first grand slam, a walk off on at that, on national TV. I have to give equal credit to Pierre for getting the leadoff stretch double and his earlier run-saving defensive play. I was wondering if Dunn was on deck, he looked awful on his previous at-bat. Rios home run saved Ozzie from a lot of flack on this forum, for some of his previous decisions.

veeter
09-10-2011, 08:01 PM
nice that someone finally came through.

Was anyone else kind of pissed about Ozzie just screwing around with that fishing pole? I know your season is over, but people there still paid money, atleast pretend like your head is in the game.Let's hope he'll be able to do all the deep sea fishing he wants to in the Atlantic Ocean next year.

TDog
09-10-2011, 08:04 PM
I had a feeling after eight that the game would end with a grand slam, but I wasn't sure if it would be hit by Rios or Dunn. Failing to score with the bases loaded and one out in three innings (four after the ninth), I was guessing that the game would either be decided by some freakish White Sox error to spoil the great post-Crane bullpen work or it would be like an getting the first olive out of the jar.

(Clarification: The White Sox previously had scored two runs to take the lead after loading the bases with one out, but the scoring left the bases loaded with one out, and from there, the White Sox didn't build on their one-run lead, surrendered with the Indians' first hitter in the next half inning.)

The first inning was frustrating enough, with Rios and Dunn striking out, but on two other occasions, it was Ramirez and Konerko who failed to get the runs home. As it turned out, the first hitter who failed with one out and the bases loaded today won the game. A victory for sabermetrics, I suppose, considering that in the end the White Sox simply got so many runners on base that they had to score. The big RBI man in the lineup, and probably the most consistent clutch hitter in the lineup this season, came up with no RBIs despite the opportunities.

I couldn't see the game because few people nationally had the opportunity, but I'm sure everyone knew the game was over when Rios made contact. Of course, the game might have been over already if the Indians hadn't intentionally walked Rios his previous time up.

Another good start by Humber, although he had a bad inning. Fortunately, not bad enough to take the Sox out of the game. Sale and Santos out of the bullpen just blew the Indians away. A blown save, statistically, for Crane, but that was just one pitch. It didn't come with the bases loaded. And interesting, if frustrating game.

I wouldn't have been surprised to learn Ramirez was bunting on his own in the ninth. In the past, White Sox hitters have been given the choice to bunt or hit to the right side to move the runner over from second to third with one out. Players choose to bunt because sacrifices don't lower your batting average. If Ramirez doesn't end the game, they are going to walk Konerko anyway, no matter who is on deck. And Flowers has looked this week like he might not get another hit all season.

I know many don't care, but I really would like to see the White Sox finish ahead of the Indians, even if the Tigers since struggling against the Royals have put it into another gear against the White Sox, Indians and Twins.

Lip Man 1
09-10-2011, 08:06 PM
Miracles do happen.

Nine more wins for a winning season.

I applaud the poster in the game thread who pretty closely predicted what was going to happen to the first four Sox hitters that inning...Pierre double. Ramirez bunts (and naturally screws it up) Konerko walked and Flowers walked.

Very well played.

And says something about how predictable Ozzie has become.

Lip

DickAllen72
09-10-2011, 08:11 PM
Grand slams are nice and all, but this is all I saw:

Adam Dunn was not pinch hit for in the ninth against a left handed pitcher.
Alejandro de Aza, one of our hottest hitters, was pinch hit for right after Dunn.

Russ or bland you guys want to take this one?

I'd love to hear how Ozzie has to play everyone on the roster and how he favored the Dunn matchup.
:fireozzie
That is all.

TDog
09-10-2011, 08:16 PM
Grand slams are nice and all, but this is all I saw:

Adam Dunn was not pinch hit for in the ninth against a left handed pitcher.
Alejandro de Aza, one of our hottest hitters, was pinch hit for right after Dunn.

Russ or bland you guys want to take this one?

I'd love to hear how Ozzie has to play everyone on the roster and how he favored the Dunn matchup.

If Dunn strikes out, you still have the winning run in scoring position. If Viciedo pinch-hits for Dunn and the Sox don't win the game in the ninth, you lose your DH because Viciedo if you send Viciedo to the outfield in the 10th. You don't have Lillibridge or Quentin able to play right. You could have pinch-hit Flowers, but he is in a 1-for-20-something slump of his own, and that would have meant catching Lucy in the 10th, if you still wanted a DH.

You aren't playing for extra innings, but you are playing so that if you have to go into extra innings, you are not putting your team at a disadvantage. Viciedo, for example, could have hit the crap out of the ball at the shortstop for a double play.

In this situation, you have Dunn and De Aza coming up. You want to pinch-hit Viciedo. If you are thinking like a major league manager, any AL manager, in any case, you don't pinch-hit Viciedo for the DH.

tstrike2000
09-10-2011, 08:27 PM
If Dunn strikes out, you still have the winning run in scoring position. If Viciedo pinch-hits for Dunn and the Sox don't win the game in the ninth, you lose your DH because Viciedo if you send Viciedo to the outfield in the 10th. You don't have Lillibridge or Quentin able to play right. You could have pinch-hit Flowers, but he is in a 1-for-20-something slump of his own, and that would have meant catching Lucy in the 10th, if you still wanted a DH.

You aren't playing for extra innings, but you are playing so that if you have to go into extra innings, you are not putting your team at a disadvantage. Viciedo, for example, could have hit the crap out of the ball at the shortstop for a double play.

In this situation, you have Dunn and De Aza coming up. You want to pinch-hit Viciedo. If you are thinking like a major league manager, any AL manager, in any case, you don't pinch-hit Viciedo for the DH.

:stars:

ChiSoxGal85
09-10-2011, 08:28 PM
Third time bases-loaded-1-out is a charm?

:thud:

blandman
09-10-2011, 08:30 PM
Grand slams are nice and all, but this is all I saw:

Adam Dunn was not pinch hit for in the ninth against a left handed pitcher.
Alejandro de Aza, one of our hottest hitters, was pinch hit for right after Dunn.

Russ or bland you guys want to take this one?

I'd love to hear how Ozzie has to play everyone on the roster and how he favored the Dunn matchup.

So are we in the race again? Because it seemed to me that Dunn hadn't played in a while. Considering he's here for four years, he should probably be getting work in.

De Aza is a AAAA player. He's 27 years old and nothing more than a backup player. He is NOT the future of the White Sox. I don't know why he'd even be in the game. If I have a qualm, it's with that.

Aesero
09-10-2011, 08:41 PM
So are we in the race again? Because it seemed to me that Dunn hadn't played in a while. Considering he's here for four years, he should probably be getting work in.

De Aza is a AAAA player. He's 27 years old and nothing more than a backup player. He is NOT the future of the White Sox. I don't know why he'd even be in the game. If I have a qualm, it's with that.
I forgot that once you're no longer in a race you stop managing and don't play to win. :rolleyes:

You keep talking down de Aza, yet hes done pretty well when he has played and will probably be in the outfield next season.

Oh and to Tdog, Ozzie hasn't hesitated in the past to give up the DH. Let's be serious here, are you really losing the DH having a pitcher bat in place of Dunn?

Domeshot17
09-10-2011, 08:44 PM
I forgot that once you're no longer in a race you stop managing and don't play to win. :rolleyes:

You keep talking down de Aza, yet hes done pretty well when he has played and will probably be in the outfield next season.

Oh and to Tdog, Ozzie hasn't hesitated in the past to give up the DH. Let's be serious here, are you really losing the DH having a pitcher bat in place of Dunn?

The last time he hated a guy so much, his last name was Rose. If De Aza could be 30% of what Rose is, we will be very well off!

vinny
09-10-2011, 08:57 PM
Third time bases-loaded-1-out is a charm?

:thud:

Actually, it was the fourth time. The previous three times Rios, Ramirez, and Morel struck out and each time we left the bases loaded.

TDog
09-10-2011, 09:09 PM
I forgot that once you're no longer in a race you stop managing and don't play to win. :rolleyes:

You keep talking down de Aza, yet hes done pretty well when he has played and will probably be in the outfield next season.

Oh and to Tdog, Ozzie hasn't hesitated in the past to give up the DH. Let's be serious here, are you really losing the DH having a pitcher bat in place of Dunn?

Who plays right in the 10th if the Sox don't score? If you pinch-hit for Dunn, you can't pinch-hit for De Aza. Ideally you would want to pinch-hit for both. Ideally, you would want Dunn to move up the runners with a productive out, a ground ball or a deep fly ball to the right side to get the runner to third with one out. The game being on the line, the Indians aren't going to be playing true double play depth, and if they do, it enhances Dunn's chance of getting a hit because he has lost a lot of hits this year to infielders making plays on him in the outfield.

If Dunn hits for himself, De Aza spot in the order is most likely going to come up with the winning run on second or third. That is a better place for Viciedo to hit. If you pinch-hit for Dunn, you have a weaker hitter than Viciedo with one out and the game on the line.

I honestly don't believe any AL manager would have pinch-hit for Dunn in that situation. You don't give up your designated hitter by choice with the score tied looking at extra innings.

You asked for an explanation, implying that there wasn't one possible other than idiocy. The eye-roll icon gives me the impression that you really don't want one.

Scottiehaswheels
09-10-2011, 09:16 PM
So are we in the race again? Because it seemed to me that Dunn hadn't played in a while. Considering he's here for four years, he should probably be getting work in.

De Aza is a AAAA player. He's 27 years old and nothing more than a backup player. He is NOT the future of the White Sox. I don't know why he'd even be in the game. If I have a qualm, it's with that.
He was the Marlins CF of the future before he broke his leg. I'd take the opinion of theMarlins scouts/coaching staff wellbefore yours.
Unless that Marlins coaching staff includes Ozzie, in which case I might side with you.

Zakath
09-10-2011, 09:17 PM
Guarantees that Detroit cannot clinch in Chicago.

Magic number at 9.

vinny
09-10-2011, 09:18 PM
Who plays right in the 10th if the Sox don't score? If you pinch-hit for Dunn, you can't pinch-hit for De Aza. Ideally you would want to pinch-hit for both. Ideally, you would want Dunn to move up the runners with a productive out, a ground ball or a deep fly ball to the right side to get the runner to third with one out. The game being on the line, the Indians aren't going to be playing true double play depth, and if they do, it enhances Dunn's chance of getting a hit because he has lost a lot of hits this year to infielders making plays on him in the outfield.

If Dunn hits for himself, De Aza spot in the order is most likely going to come up with the winning run on second or third. That is a better place for Viciedo to hit. If you pinch-hit for Dunn, you have a weaker hitter than Viciedo with one out and the game on the line.

I honestly don't believe any AL manager would have pinch-hit for Dunn in that situation. You don't give up your designated hitter by choice with the score tied looking at extra innings.

You asked for an explanation, implying that there wasn't one possible other than idiocy. The eye-roll icon gives me the impression that you really don't want one.

:rolling:
Who on our team could possibly be a weaker hitter than Dunn going up against a lefty, especially this season?

DickAllen72
09-10-2011, 09:23 PM
If Dunn strikes out, you still have the winning run in scoring position. If Viciedo pinch-hits for Dunn and the Sox don't win the game in the ninth, you lose your DH because Viciedo if you send Viciedo to the outfield in the 10th.
Why in the hell would you send Viciedo out in the field in the 10th???

He pinch hits for the DH. He stays in the game as the DH.

doublem23
09-10-2011, 09:43 PM
If Dunn strikes out, you still have the winning run in scoring position. If Viciedo pinch-hits for Dunn and the Sox don't win the game in the ninth, you lose your DH because Viciedo if you send Viciedo to the outfield in the 10th. You don't have Lillibridge or Quentin able to play right. You could have pinch-hit Flowers, but he is in a 1-for-20-something slump of his own, and that would have meant catching Lucy in the 10th, if you still wanted a DH.

You aren't playing for extra innings, but you are playing so that if you have to go into extra innings, you are not putting your team at a disadvantage. Viciedo, for example, could have hit the crap out of the ball at the shortstop for a double play.

In this situation, you have Dunn and De Aza coming up. You want to pinch-hit Viciedo. If you are thinking like a major league manager, any AL manager, in any case, you don't pinch-hit Viciedo for the DH.

LOL what, Viciedo just becomes the DH. Holy ****.

This post is just full of nonsense. ****ing nonsense.

Aesero
09-10-2011, 09:43 PM
Who plays right in the 10th if the Sox don't score? If you pinch-hit for Dunn, you can't pinch-hit for De Aza. Ideally you would want to pinch-hit for both. Ideally, you would want Dunn to move up the runners with a productive out, a ground ball or a deep fly ball to the right side to get the runner to third with one out. The game being on the line, the Indians aren't going to be playing true double play depth, and if they do, it enhances Dunn's chance of getting a hit because he has lost a lot of hits this year to infielders making plays on him in the outfield.

If Dunn hits for himself, De Aza spot in the order is most likely going to come up with the winning run on second or third. That is a better place for Viciedo to hit. If you pinch-hit for Dunn, you have a weaker hitter than Viciedo with one out and the game on the line.

I honestly don't believe any AL manager would have pinch-hit for Dunn in that situation. You don't give up your designated hitter by choice with the score tied looking at extra innings.

You asked for an explanation, implying that there wasn't one possible other than idiocy. The eye-roll icon gives me the impression that you really don't want one.

Believe me, I always try to find reasoning behind every move made. If it is something I don't like I try and see other possibilities. I do this with my dad all the time when we talk about games. He is the biggest Ozzie opponent out there and I try to play devils advocate to make sense of situations.

This is one case where the more I think about it the decision looks worse and worse.

Dunn is just about a 40% strikeout victim to LHP. If you really want to talk about making constructive outs and advancing runners then have Omar come out and put a bunt down. By leaving Dunn there you're taking a shot in the dark that he moves the runners over. Again, if you want to play the game of moving people over, have a guy who has done it his entire career go out there.

I'd be perfectly happy with de Aza batting in that situation in the ninth. HOWEVER, I will look at it from your side and I will AGREE with you that Viciedo is a better hitter in that spot. I am fine with Viciedo batting in place of de Aza. I am NOT fine with 3-81 37K Dunn batting against a lefty and praying that he does something that he has rarely done all year.

And to address the giving up the DH. You only lose the DH if you put that player in the field. Again, Omar could have easily come in and played DH the rest of the game.

So I went through a couple options Ozzie had:

Pinch hit Viciedo for Dunn, don't pinch hit for de Aza. No defensive changes, no loss of DH.
Pinch hit Omar for Dunn, pinch hit Viciedo for de Aza. Viciedo to right field, no loss of DH.
Let Dunn bat, pinch hit for de Aza. Viciedo to right field.

I'm aware Escobar was used and wouldn't be able to field, but if it comes to worse case situation, you put Omar on the field. Do you still believe batting Dunn was the right move?

doublem23
09-10-2011, 09:50 PM
Do you still believe batting Dunn was the right move?

I didn't watch the game today, but did Dunn almost walk?

Aesero
09-10-2011, 09:53 PM
I didn't watch the game today, but did Dunn almost walk?

I started laughing when I read "almost walk" because I wonder if that will be used in the future as a way to determine if Dunn had a good at bat or not.

3 fastballs 0 contact.

Tragg
09-10-2011, 10:02 PM
So are we in the race again? Because it seemed to me that Dunn hadn't played in a while. Considering he's here for four years, he should probably be getting work in.


I agree. And Pierre shouldn't be.
DeAza's certainly had a good offensive 6 weeks.

blandman
09-10-2011, 10:07 PM
He was the Marlins CF of the future before he broke his leg. I'd take the opinion of theMarlins scouts/coaching staff wellbefore yours.
Unless that Marlins coaching staff includes Ozzie, in which case I might side with you.

Well that's dumb. Every 27+ year old in the minors was at some point someone's something of the future. That's what makes them a AAAA player. They're kept around to be spare players.

blandman
09-10-2011, 10:09 PM
I agree. And Pierre shouldn't be.
DeAza's certainly had a good offensive 6 weeks.

It makes me wonder if they're considering resigning Juan.

doublem23
09-10-2011, 10:16 PM
De Aza is a AAAA player. He's 27 years old and nothing more than a backup player. He is NOT the future of the White Sox. I don't know why he'd even be in the game. If I have a qualm, it's with that.

Oh please, De Aza has been nothing short of spectacular since he's been here. Kevin Youkilis didn't become an everday MLB player until he was 27, either. Nobody is saying De Aza is on his way to joining DLS in Cooperstown, just that he's been fine for the Sox in 2011.

doublem23
09-10-2011, 10:18 PM
I agree. And Pierre shouldn't be.
DeAza's certainly had a good offensive 6 weeks.

Yeah, it's just the usual super awesome managing skills of Ozzie Guillen. Couldn't find a way to get Dunn in the game enough when we were still playing for something. Now that the year is essentially over, Dunn sits.

God I am going to have such a party when he gets fired.

blandman
09-10-2011, 10:19 PM
Oh please, De Aza has been nothing short of spectacular since he's been here. Kevin Youkilis didn't become an everday MLB player until he was 27, either. Nobody is saying De Aza is on his way to joining DLS in Cooperstown, just that he's been fine for the Sox in 2011.

There's a huge difference between being forced to wait for an open spot and never reaching what some thought your potential was. The league will adjust, and he'll go back to being a good late inning defensive replacement.

This reminds me of when people thought Chris Singleton was the answer.

doublem23
09-10-2011, 10:27 PM
There's a huge difference between being forced to wait for an open spot and never reaching what some thought your potential was. The league will adjust, and he'll go back to being a good late inning defensive replacement.

This reminds me of when people thought Chris Singleton was the answer.

Isn't that basically what happened to De Aza? Guy was slated to be the CF for the Marlins, got hurt, and just got boxed out by the plethora of OF prospects the Marlins had and came here, where Ozzie Guillen couldn't recognize good, young talent if it punched him in the face. Never forget this is the guy that wanted to keep Jerry Owens and send TCQ to Charlotte in 2008.

DumpJerry
09-10-2011, 10:29 PM
OP: is it too much to ask for the date to be included in the thread title? People have been getting sloppy lately and it makes it hard to keep track of which game which thread covers since some threads live past the next game.

soxfan1965
09-10-2011, 10:33 PM
You asked for an explanation, implying that there wasn't one possible other than idiocy. The eye-roll icon gives me the impression that you really don't want one.

Dec 3, 2010 -> I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Dunn helping the Sox much, unless it leads to re-signing Konerko.


Dec 3, 2010 -> I'm not excited about Dunn.

I may not agree with your explanation, because Dunn looked so terrible, so horribly lost on that at bat in the 9th, that mitigate any manager doing something logical w/r/t Dunn against a lefty. But I wanted to commend you belatedly as one of the few posters who expressed doubt about the signing of Adam Dunn back on Dec 3. Good insight!

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=124700&highlight=adam+dunn+signed

GlassSox
09-10-2011, 10:41 PM
Just home from the game. This was so frustrating to watch. If I remember accurately, in the 1st nine innings the bases were loaded 3 times and they scored 2 runs.

Dunn still sucks so Ozzie keep trotting him out there so that everyone can be 100% sure that he sucks. He hasn't fixed it yet so his 2011 season should be ovah!

When Rios came up with bases loaded the last time, I was yelling do something, do anything, crowd the plate and take one for the team..... Wow what a shock when he hit the grand slam walk off. Nice job Alex.

Nice applause from Sox fans for Thome when he came up to bat.

Oh yea before I forget, hey Ozzie, Alexei can't ****ing bunt!

blandman
09-10-2011, 10:49 PM
Isn't that basically what happened to De Aza? Guy was slated to be the CF for the Marlins, got hurt, and just got boxed out by the plethora of OF prospects the Marlins had and came here, where Ozzie Guillen couldn't recognize good, young talent if it punched him in the face. Never forget this is the guy that wanted to keep Jerry Owens and send TCQ to Charlotte in 2008.

No, he failed to meet expectations, then got hurt. Then he got healthy and was given another shot and failed again.

And the reason that TCQ scenerio "almost" happened had more to do with the incredibly unnecessary trade for Nick Swisher and his salary, which essentially gave us an outfield with 3 corners, two of which with significant financial commitment (TCQ being the odd man out). Just another example of trying to pin something on Ozzie, I guess.

jdm2662
09-10-2011, 10:54 PM
I didn't watch the game today, but did Dunn almost walk?

Three fast balls.

Three whiffs.

The end.

I had more of an issue with Ramirez bunting in the tenth. Konerko is going to get walked anyway. Even though Ramirez was having a miserable day at the plate, let him swing and see if he gets a hit. The Indians were not letting Konerko hit no matter what.

GlassSox
09-10-2011, 10:57 PM
ESPN just said that Rios' walk off grand slam was the first walk off extra innings grand slam in MLB this year. :cool:

Sox
09-10-2011, 11:11 PM
nice that someone finally came through.

Was anyone else kind of pissed about Ozzie just screwing around with that fishing pole? I know your season is over, but people there still paid money, atleast pretend like your head is in the game.

I wasn't sure what Ozzie had in his hands...I had to take a second look to make sure that that was a fishing pole I was seeing....nothing says I don't care about the season any more than seeing a manager with a fishing pole in the dugout....way to go OZ!!! Must be thinking about his new job in FLA with the Marlins and all of that deep sea fishing he can do off of a charter boat...:whatever:

doublem23
09-10-2011, 11:57 PM
OP: is it too much to ask for the date to be included in the thread title? People have been getting sloppy lately and it makes it hard to keep track of which game which thread covers since some threads live past the next game.

You can edit the name of threads

JB98
09-11-2011, 12:21 AM
Even if De Aza is "AAAA," he's still hitting over .300, and he's been playing most days for six weeks. Even if this is just a hot streak, he's still a much better option at the plate against a left-handed pitcher than Dunn.

Getting Viciedo to the plate against Sipp was a good move. It should have come a batter sooner.

Viciedo and De Aza > Dunn and Viciedo.

That should be obvious to anyone. Who cares how much money Dunn is making? He shouldn't see the light of day the rest of the year. Rios has had a terrible season, but at least he has made himself somewhat useful the last few weeks.

Only Ozzie Guillen would let the .160 hitter bat, then pinch hit for a .305 hitter. And, oh yeah, anyone who actually watches White Sox baseball knows that Alexei Ramirez is a poor bunter.

TDog
09-11-2011, 12:45 AM
LOL what, Viciedo just becomes the DH. Holy ****.

This post is just full of nonsense. ****ing nonsense.

You're missing the point. If Viciedo pinch-hits for Dunn, you can't pinch-hit for De Aza.

If Dunn is pinch-hit for in that situation, it isn't going to be with Viciedo. It is going to be Vizquel, bunting the runners over. Then Viciedo pinch-hits for De Aza.

Tell me I'm an idiot. Personally attack me for being upset that Dunn is signed by the White Sox because he strikes out too much. Then tell me I'm talking nonsense because I don't fall in lockstep with the Dunn hatred when strategically it is an incorrect move to pinch-hit Viciedo for Dunn. But I'm right.

Even with Dunn striking out, as you would expect him to do with this frequency even if he were having the season many here were drooling over, the White Sox still failed to score the winning run with the bases loaded and one out. Leaving Ramirez and Konerko in twice to hit with the bases loaded earlier in the game didn't win the game either.

It was a great win, an exciting game. Adam Dunn had very little to do with it.

GlassSox
09-11-2011, 12:46 AM
Even if De Aza is "AAAA," he's still hitting over .300, and he's been playing most days for six weeks. Even if this is just a hot streak, he's still a much better option at the plate against a left-handed pitcher than Dunn.

Getting Viciedo to the plate against Sipp was a good move. It should have come a batter sooner.

Viciedo and De Aza > Dunn and Viciedo.

That should be obvious to anyone. Who cares how much money Dunn is making? He shouldn't see the light of day the rest of the year. Rios has had a terrible season, but at least he has made himself somewhat useful the last few weeks.

Only Ozzie Guillen would let the .160 hitter bat, then pinch hit for a .305 hitter. And, oh yeah, anyone who actually watches White Sox baseball knows that Alexei Ramirez is a poor bunter.

:yup: :thumbsup:

doublem23
09-11-2011, 12:55 AM
You're missing the point. If Viciedo pinch-hits for Dunn, you can't pinch-hit for De Aza.

Are you ****ing kidding me? De Aza is hitting .304/.336/.529 this year in over 100 PA with the Sox. He's hitting .450 with RISP. WHY THE **** WOULD ANYONE PINCH HIT FOR HIM??????????????????????? What is Dunn even hitting against lefties this year? Manny Acta must have been in the Indians dugout LAUGHING HIS ****ING ASS OFF when Ozzie didn't pinch hit for Dunn. IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE, Ozzie can't play these moronic OLD SCHOOL BASEBALL AND **** L/R matchups enough and the ONE ****ING TIME he gets a chance to actually make a good move with his MORONIC line of thinking, to pinch hit for your .160/.050 or whatever vs. LHP DH and the stubborn mother****er DOESN'T MOTHER****ING DO IT. And then I have to read someone on these boards completely defend the move like it's perfectly good baseball strategy. WHAT. THE. ****. EVER. Like I'm the ****ing idiot because I prefer to have guys bat who hit a little better than the mid .100's.

Keep telling yourself that you're right and maybe someone will listen to your bull****. For ****'s sake.

I don't even give a **** if you want to keep parading around like you're the cock of the ****ing walk because you didn't like the Adam Dunn signing in December. CONGRATU****INGLATIONS, you got your wish, the big bopper the Sox bought turned out to be ****, so now you can mock everyone who likes offense and pretend like it's still 1913 and all good teams win games with their key bunting and sacrifice fly-outs. I really don't give a god damn ****ing **** about any of that now, BUT THERE IS NO ****ING WAY you can tell me right now, after watching Dunn all ****ing season and watching De Aza since his ****ing call up that you would EVER this season let Dunn hit over De Aza AND THAT'S BEFORE I EVEN MENTION IT'S AGAINST A LEFT-HANDED PITCHER.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

MtGrnwdSoxFan
09-11-2011, 01:00 AM
You're missing the point. If Viciedo pinch-hits for Dunn, you can't pinch-hit for De Aza.

If Dunn is pinch-hit for in that situation, it isn't going to be with Viciedo. It is going to be Vizquel, bunting the runners over. Then Viciedo pinch-hits for De Aza.

Why would you WANT to pinch-hit De Aza? Dude's been fantastic since his call-up.

In your scenario, even if Vizquel manages to bunt the runners over successfully, they walk Viciedo to get to Morel. So, basically, the end result is the same.

If Viciedo pinch-hits for Dunn, then they can't walk him, and even if Viciedo strikes out, you've still got hot-hitting De Aza to back him up (who has the same amount of hits against lefty pitching as Dunn does in about 70 less ABs). Ozzie basically played this one like usual: stupidly.

hi im skot
09-11-2011, 02:47 AM
That was the least excited I've ever been for a walk-off homer.

Frustrating game, but I'll take the win.

HangWiffum
09-11-2011, 03:33 AM
Are you ****ing kidding me? De Aza is hitting .304/.336/.529 this year in over 100 PA with the Sox. He's hitting .450 with RISP. WHY THE **** WOULD ANYONE PINCH HIT FOR HIM??????????????????????? What is Dunn even hitting against lefties this year? Manny Acta must have been in the Indians dugout LAUGHING HIS ****ING ASS OFF when Ozzie didn't pinch hit for Dunn. IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE, Ozzie can't play these moronic OLD SCHOOL BASEBALL AND **** L/R matchups enough and the ONE ****ING TIME he gets a chance to actually make a good move with his MORONIC line of thinking, to pinch hit for your .160/.050 or whatever vs. LHP DH and the stubborn mother****er DOESN'T MOTHER****ING DO IT. And then I have to read someone on these boards completely defend the move like it's perfectly good baseball strategy. WHAT. THE. ****. EVER. Like I'm the ****ing idiot because I prefer to have guys bat who hit a little better than the mid .100's.

Keep telling yourself that you're right and maybe someone will listen to your bull****. For ****'s sake.

I don't even give a **** if you want to keep parading around like you're the cock of the ****ing walk because you didn't like the Adam Dunn signing in December. CONGRATU****INGLATIONS, you got your wish, the big bopper the Sox bought turned out to be ****, so now you can mock everyone who likes offense and pretend like it's still 1913 and all good teams win games with their key bunting and sacrifice fly-outs. I really don't give a god damn ****ing **** about any of that now, BUT THERE IS NO ****ING WAY you can tell me right now, after watching Dunn all ****ing season and watching De Aza since his ****ing call up that you would EVER this season let Dunn hit over De Aza AND THAT'S BEFORE I EVEN MENTION IT'S AGAINST A LEFT-HANDED PITCHER.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I gotta make this my signature :gulp:

Boondock Saint
09-11-2011, 03:59 AM
Are you ****ing kidding me? De Aza is hitting .304/.336/.529 this year in over 100 PA with the Sox. He's hitting .450 with RISP. WHY THE **** WOULD ANYONE PINCH HIT FOR HIM??????????????????????? What is Dunn even hitting against lefties this year? Manny Acta must have been in the Indians dugout LAUGHING HIS ****ING ASS OFF when Ozzie didn't pinch hit for Dunn. IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE, Ozzie can't play these moronic OLD SCHOOL BASEBALL AND **** L/R matchups enough and the ONE ****ING TIME he gets a chance to actually make a good move with his MORONIC line of thinking, to pinch hit for your .160/.050 or whatever vs. LHP DH and the stubborn mother****er DOESN'T MOTHER****ING DO IT. And then I have to read someone on these boards completely defend the move like it's perfectly good baseball strategy. WHAT. THE. ****. EVER. Like I'm the ****ing idiot because I prefer to have guys bat who hit a little better than the mid .100's.

Keep telling yourself that you're right and maybe someone will listen to your bull****. For ****'s sake.

I don't even give a **** if you want to keep parading around like you're the cock of the ****ing walk because you didn't like the Adam Dunn signing in December. CONGRATU****INGLATIONS, you got your wish, the big bopper the Sox bought turned out to be ****, so now you can mock everyone who likes offense and pretend like it's still 1913 and all good teams win games with their key bunting and sacrifice fly-outs. I really don't give a god damn ****ing **** about any of that now, BUT THERE IS NO ****ING WAY you can tell me right now, after watching Dunn all ****ing season and watching De Aza since his ****ing call up that you would EVER this season let Dunn hit over De Aza AND THAT'S BEFORE I EVEN MENTION IT'S AGAINST A LEFT-HANDED PITCHER.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

This is often what I'm thinking from the other side of the monitor when I see people defending Ozzie's idiotic decisions, only with more profanity and less coherency. Basically, I just want to break ****.

russ99
09-11-2011, 04:12 AM
Are you ****ing kidding me? De Aza is hitting .304/.336/.529 this year in over 100 PA with the Sox. He's hitting .450 with RISP. WHY THE **** WOULD ANYONE PINCH HIT FOR HIM??????????????????????? What is Dunn even hitting against lefties this year? Manny Acta must have been in the Indians dugout LAUGHING HIS ****ING ASS OFF when Ozzie didn't pinch hit for Dunn. IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE, Ozzie can't play these moronic OLD SCHOOL BASEBALL AND **** L/R matchups enough and the ONE ****ING TIME he gets a chance to actually make a good move with his MORONIC line of thinking, to pinch hit for your .160/.050 or whatever vs. LHP DH and the stubborn mother****er DOESN'T MOTHER****ING DO IT. And then I have to read someone on these boards completely defend the move like it's perfectly good baseball strategy. WHAT. THE. ****. EVER. Like I'm the ****ing idiot because I prefer to have guys bat who hit a little better than the mid .100's.

Keep telling yourself that you're right and maybe someone will listen to your bull****. For ****'s sake.

I don't even give a **** if you want to keep parading around like you're the cock of the ****ing walk because you didn't like the Adam Dunn signing in December. CONGRATU****INGLATIONS, you got your wish, the big bopper the Sox bought turned out to be ****, so now you can mock everyone who likes offense and pretend like it's still 1913 and all good teams win games with their key bunting and sacrifice fly-outs. I really don't give a god damn ****ing **** about any of that now, BUT THERE IS NO ****ING WAY you can tell me right now, after watching Dunn all ****ing season and watching De Aza since his ****ing call up that you would EVER this season let Dunn hit over De Aza AND THAT'S BEFORE I EVEN MENTION IT'S AGAINST A LEFT-HANDED PITCHER.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Personally, I would have hit for Dunn there, but point of that post is that Dunn is DH, and De Aza couldn't have taken over a defensive OF spot if pinch hit that position, weakening the defense. This is what I'm talking about when I talk about the rage of playing Dunn at all or the need to rip Ozzie for every decision takes over, eliminating any reasonable discussion anymore.

Btw- it's not 1913, but also the rest if the league isn't playing like 1998 Sosa vs. McGwire anymore. I love offense, just not the outdated Sox homer or nothing philosophy. It's about runs, period and sadly we can't seem to drive them in since we's so worried about our OPS all the damn time,

Even the idiotic Fox announcers noticed that we never shorten swings and go the other way.

ilsox7
09-11-2011, 04:13 AM
Please leave, Ozzie. I don't want to hate you during the 10 year anniversary celebration.

Boondock Saint
09-11-2011, 04:31 AM
Personally, I would have hit for Dunn there, but point of that post is that Dunn is DH, and De Aza couldn't have taken over a defensive OF spot if pinch hit that position, weakening the defense. This is what I'm talking about when I talk about the rage of playing Dunn at all or the need to rip Ozzie for every decision takes over, eliminating any reasonable discussion anymore.

Btw- it's not 1913, but also the rest if the league isn't playing like 1998 Sosa vs. McGwire anymore. I love offense, just not the outdated Sox homer or nothing philosophy. It's about runs, period and sadly we can't seem to drive them in since we's so worried about our OPS all the damn time,

Even the idiotic Fox announcers noticed that we never shorten swings and go the other way.

But if Dunn doesn't start, you don't have to worry about having to pinch hit for your designated hitter (yeah, just the fact that you would have to even consider doing that gives me a migraine).

doublem23
09-11-2011, 07:06 AM
Personally, I would have hit for Dunn there, but point of that post is that Dunn is DH, and De Aza couldn't have taken over a defensive OF spot if pinch hit that position, weakening the defense. This is what I'm talking about when I talk about the rage of playing Dunn at all or the need to rip Ozzie for every decision takes over, eliminating any reasonable discussion anymore.

No, wait, I don't understand here... De Aza didn't need to take an OF spot, he was already the RF. Ozzie-o elected to have Viciedo hit for De Aza, so not only did he keep his ****ty DH in the game, he then pinch hit for a guy who can actually hit and potentially downgrade his outfield defense all at the same time, since I think we can all agree that Alejandro is a better RF than Dayan. If you pinch hit for Dunn, then Viciedo stays in the game as the DH and De Aza chugs along in RF... It's the best of both worlds, you upgrade your DH from "can't hit" to "can" and the you keep who is arguably your best defensive OF on the field. Really, the only manager in all of organized baseball (and I'm going down to like... T-ball here) that would have PH for De Aza over Dunn is our Idiot in Chief, I guess it would disrupt his beloved R/L/R lineup bull****.

How do you expect to have a reasonable discussion about Ozzie's ****-brained in game decisions when you apparently do not understand the in-game situation?

Chez
09-11-2011, 08:31 AM
Ramirez had one of the worst games I've seen a Sox player (not named Dunn) have this season. His head was not in the game. I think Omar or Escobar gets the start at SS today.

slavko
09-11-2011, 09:30 AM
Even the idiotic Fox announcers noticed that we never shorten swings and go the other way.

AJ does. PK does. Morel, DeAza, Vizquel. But by and large, an accurate statement. Jose Valentin's legacy lives on.

Domeshot17
09-11-2011, 12:30 PM
Personally, I would have hit for Dunn there, but point of that post is that Dunn is DH, and De Aza couldn't have taken over a defensive OF spot if pinch hit that position, weakening the defense. This is what I'm talking about when I talk about the rage of playing Dunn at all or the need to rip Ozzie for every decision takes over, eliminating any reasonable discussion anymore.

Btw- it's not 1913, but also the rest if the league isn't playing like 1998 Sosa vs. McGwire anymore. I love offense, just not the outdated Sox homer or nothing philosophy. It's about runs, period and sadly we can't seem to drive them in since we's so worried about our OPS all the damn time,

Even the idiotic Fox announcers noticed that we never shorten swings and go the other way.


http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l0yfoqliNr1qbch4xo1_250.jpg

LEAVE OZZIE ALONE!!!!!! JUST LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!! HE IS a PERSON!!!! LEAVE OZZIE ALONE!!!!

BainesHOF
09-11-2011, 03:36 PM
Even Farmer and D.J. were going off on Guillen letting Dunn bat in the ninth. They noted he just doesn't like pinch-hitting for veterans. This goes back to my old point about how Guillen manages to be liked, which of course is the way to be a bad manager. You need a manager to always do what's best for the team, but Guillen is gutless when it comes to handling veterans.

DirtySox
09-11-2011, 04:24 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? De Aza is hitting .304/.336/.529 this year in over 100 PA with the Sox. He's hitting .450 with RISP. WHY THE **** WOULD ANYONE PINCH HIT FOR HIM??????????????????????? What is Dunn even hitting against lefties this year? Manny Acta must have been in the Indians dugout LAUGHING HIS ****ING ASS OFF when Ozzie didn't pinch hit for Dunn. IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE, Ozzie can't play these moronic OLD SCHOOL BASEBALL AND **** L/R matchups enough and the ONE ****ING TIME he gets a chance to actually make a good move with his MORONIC line of thinking, to pinch hit for your .160/.050 or whatever vs. LHP DH and the stubborn mother****er DOESN'T MOTHER****ING DO IT. And then I have to read someone on these boards completely defend the move like it's perfectly good baseball strategy. WHAT. THE. ****. EVER. Like I'm the ****ing idiot because I prefer to have guys bat who hit a little better than the mid .100's.

Keep telling yourself that you're right and maybe someone will listen to your bull****. For ****'s sake.

I don't even give a **** if you want to keep parading around like you're the cock of the ****ing walk because you didn't like the Adam Dunn signing in December. CONGRATU****INGLATIONS, you got your wish, the big bopper the Sox bought turned out to be ****, so now you can mock everyone who likes offense and pretend like it's still 1913 and all good teams win games with their key bunting and sacrifice fly-outs. I really don't give a god damn ****ing **** about any of that now, BUT THERE IS NO ****ING WAY you can tell me right now, after watching Dunn all ****ing season and watching De Aza since his ****ing call up that you would EVER this season let Dunn hit over De Aza AND THAT'S BEFORE I EVEN MENTION IT'S AGAINST A LEFT-HANDED PITCHER.

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Oh lord. How did I miss this gem? Fantastic.