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View Full Version : Danks, Peavy, Floyd, Humber, Stewart ... is it enough?


Moses_Scurry
09-08-2011, 09:05 AM
I know we all love Buehrle, and would be very happy to have him on the Sox for his entire, career, but there is a strong chance that they will not keep him.

Is the above rotation good enough? I can't see the offense being worse than it was this year, but I could see Rios and Dunn still stinking it up next year (maybe not to the historical levels we saw this year). With the Buehrle/Pierre money off the books, the Sox could feasibly get another bat in the lineup, although I feel like the payroll is going to be reduced next season after this disaster anyway. I could live with an outfield of Viciedo/De Aza, Rios (blech), and TCQ.

I almost would rather they keep TCQ than Buehrle if I take my emotion out of the equation. I feel like a decent offense would make the rotation, sans Buehrle, adequate.

EDIT: If they could get a decent upgrade bat by trading Danks and then signing Buehrle, I would be OK with that as well.

chisoxjtrain
09-08-2011, 09:07 AM
Didn't Don Cooper say Chris Sale will be joining the rotation next year?

pythons007
09-08-2011, 09:13 AM
Didn't Don Cooper say Chris Sale will be joining the rotation next year?

I believe this is correct.

DumpJerry
09-08-2011, 09:37 AM
Didn't Don Cooper say Chris Sale will be joining the rotation next year?

I believe this is correct.
Before pitchers and catchers reported this year the team made the same announcement about this season since, at the time, it was not yet known if Peavy was playing this year.

asindc
09-08-2011, 09:48 AM
Before pitchers and catchers reported this year the team made the same announcement about this season since, at the time, it was not yet known if Peavy was playing this year.

I think if Peavy had not come back sooner than expected and Humber had not pitched so well, we might have seen start of few games this season.

By the way, love you new sig.:thumbsup:

Milw
09-08-2011, 09:50 AM
Seems to me the likelier scenario is trading Danks to replenish the minors and moving Sale into the rotation. I think if Buehrle is willing to take less than market value (~ $12m/2yrs) that the Sox would find a way to accommodate that.

Peavy, Floyd, Sale, Humber, Stewart is an acceptable rotation to me. It's certainly a step down from what we have, but it should be good enough to keep us competitive if the offense returns to the mean.

Chez
09-08-2011, 09:56 AM
I think it's an either/or situation with Buehrle and Danks. My prediction is that the Sox and Buehrle will work out a deal and then Danks will be dealt. I think Sale moves to the rotation only if Thornton is dealt (which is what I think will happen).

Hitmen77
09-08-2011, 09:56 AM
Didn't Don Cooper say Chris Sale will be joining the rotation next year?

I wouldn't be surprised to see Buehrle plus one of either Danks or Floyd gone for 2012. Buehrle and Pierre were paid a combined $19M for this season. The $3.5M we ate from Linebrink's contract comes off the books too. So that's $22.5M cut right there. Another $4.3M comes off the books if Vizquel, Pena, and Castro aren't brought back. That's up to $26.8M in cuts.

But, on the other hand, raises for Peavy, Dunn, Floyd, AJ, Thornton, Alexei, Ohman, and Viciedo adds up to something like $16M. Danks and Quentin are up for arbitration again, so they'll be getting raises if they stay on the Sox. Keeping Danks, Floyd and Quentin could put the Sox back to around the same ballpark as this year's payroll.

Also, don't forget that bringing back Humber is going to cost more that the $500,000 he earned this year.

Is a rotation of Peavy, Humber, Stewart, (only one of Danks/Floyd, and Sale good enough? I don't know. Lots of question marks there. Is it reasonable to expect Humber to repeat is 2011 success next year? Or was this just a career year for him?

Moses_Scurry
09-08-2011, 10:09 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Buehrle plus one of either Danks or Floyd gone for 2012. Buehrle and Pierre were paid a combined $19M for this season. The $3.5M we ate from Linebrink's contract comes off the books too. So that's $22.5M cut right there. Another $4.3M comes off the books if Vizquel, Pena, and Castro aren't brought back. That's up to $26.8M in cuts.

But, on the other hand, raises for Peavy, Dunn, Floyd, AJ, Thornton, Alexei, Ohman, and Viciedo adds up to something like $16M. Danks and Quentin are up for arbitration again, so they'll be getting raises if they stay on the Sox. Keeping Danks, Floyd and Quentin could put the Sox back to around the same ballpark as this year's payroll.

Also, don't forget that bringing back Humber is going to cost more that the $500,000 he earned this year.

Is a rotation of Peavy, Humber, Stewart, (only one of:) Danks/Floyd, and Sale good enough? I don't know. Lots of question marks there. Is it reasonable to expect Humber to repeat is 2011 success next year? Or was this just a career year for him?

To me that looks like a bunch of serviceable guys with no stopper unless somebody miraculously returns to previous form (Peavy) or takes a major step forward (everyone except Peavy). It will only be enough if the offense sees some huge improvement.

Milw
09-08-2011, 10:16 AM
To me that looks like a bunch of serviceable guys with no stopper unless somebody miraculously returns to previous form (Peavy) or takes a major step forward (everyone except Peavy). It will only be enough if the offense sees some huge improvement.
The offense was so bad this year that improvement is almost inevitable, the question will be whether it's enough improvement.

Viciedo will be a huge upgrade over Pierre. Dunn and Rios can't be worse, and are likely to be significantly better, even if they still aren't exactly earning their keep. Morel and Beckham figure to be marginally better. Konerko shows no signs of getting old, although a regression from his 10-11 numbers seems reasonable to expect. Alexei underperformed this year.

Assuming the Sox retain TCQ, they should have a markedly improved offense next year. But then again, who knows. :shrug:

Moses_Scurry
09-08-2011, 10:22 AM
The offense was so bad this year that improvement is almost inevitable, the question will be whether it's enough improvement.

Viciedo will be a huge upgrade over Pierre. Dunn and Rios can't be worse, and are likely to be significantly better, even if they still aren't exactly earning their keep. Morel and Beckham figure to be marginally better. Konerko shows no signs of getting old, although a regression from his 10-11 numbers seems reasonable to expect. Alexei underperformed this year.

Assuming the Sox retain TCQ, they should have a markedly improved offense next year. But then again, who knows. :shrug:

It seems like it can't be worse, but I'm not sure how much better it will be. I could easily see Morel, Beckham, Rios, and Alexei having similar years next season. I could see PK regressing or staying the same. Same with TCQ if they keep him. Same with AJ. I don't see those three having better numbers next year. I agree Viciedo will be an upgrade over Pierre, but I don't know how much of an actual upgrade he'll be. His OBP won't be any better. He'll have more home runs by a long shot, but how much of a difference will 20 home runs have vs. 2? 18 runs over a season? I can't imagine that Dunn will be historically bad, but he could still be bad.

I think the team desperately needs a new bat somewhere and to hold onto whatever offense they have. If it means replacing Morel or Beckham with a veteran, so be it. Of course, if they're going to trade Beckham, they better get a nice haul for him.

doublem23
09-08-2011, 10:56 AM
It seems like it can't be worse, but I'm not sure how much better it will be. I could easily see Morel, Beckham, Rios, and Alexei having similar years next season. I could see PK regressing or staying the same. Same with TCQ if they keep him. Same with AJ. I don't see those three having better numbers next year. I agree Viciedo will be an upgrade over Pierre, but I don't know how much of an actual upgrade he'll be. His OBP won't be any better. He'll have more home runs by a long shot, but how much of a difference will 20 home runs have vs. 2? 18 runs over a season? I can't imagine that Dunn will be historically bad, but he could still be bad.

I think the team desperately needs a new bat somewhere and to hold onto whatever offense they have. If it means replacing Morel or Beckham with a veteran, so be it. Of course, if they're going to trade Beckham, they better get a nice haul for him.

The continued, impressive play of Alejandro de Aza essentially is double-stamping Juan Pierre's ticket out of here. I also think he makes Quentin more expendable, who can probably be moved to either snag an everyday 2B or 3B who can hit (a novel concept) or provide more salary relief by being shipped with, say, AJ? A starting OF next season of Viciedo, Rios, and de Aza looks at least better than it did a few weeks ago considering both Viciedo and de Aza have looked good since they arrived.

Likely the Sox will not be able to move Rios or Dunn so they're again going to heavily rely on them, so we'll see how that works. Hopefully 2011 was an aberation/shames them into working harder this off-season. But the Sox can definitely use an upgrade at 3B and 2B. Flowers has been in a funk lately, but it's still time to give him a chance as the everyday C to split time with AJ.

I doubt Beckham gets moved because, really, at this point, are there any takers? Plus, combined with Lillibridge, the two can cover almost the entire field so they give a lot of bench flexibility.

As long as the bullpen doesn't implode I think the Sox will at least be sort of competitive in the Central. Not what we all want, of course, but there are some people who still think this team is on a direct path to 60 wins, I don't think the situation is quite that dire. Hopefully a new manager and new coaches next year bring some spark of life back to the Sox.

Milw
09-08-2011, 11:03 AM
As long as the bullpen doesn't implode I think the Sox will at least be sort of competitive in the Central. Not what we all want, of course, but there are some people who still think this team is on a direct path to 60 wins, I don't think the situation is quite that dire. Hopefully a new manager and new coaches next year bring some spark of life back to the Sox.
Agreed. I'm not expecting any playoff baseball from the 2012 White Sox, which is disappointing, but they'll be a decent team, assuming you consider 83 to 86 wins to be decent, which I do.

If we can get a prospect haul for Danks and/or Quentin, 2013 could be promising.

At least we're not the Cubs, right? :redneck

doublem23
09-08-2011, 11:06 AM
Agreed. I'm not expecting any playoff baseball from the 2012 White Sox, which is disappointing, but they'll be a decent team, assuming you consider 83 to 86 wins to be decent, which I do.

If we can get a prospect haul for Danks and/or Quentin, 2013 could be promising.

At least we're not the Cubs, right? :redneck

I just hope that, whatever happens in the next few years, there's no repeat of this team's lifeless, sometimes seemingly lacksidasical effort. Everytime they have runners in scoring position, I don't expect them to score. Every time they fall 3-4 runs behind, I assume the game is over. There doesn't feel like there's any spark. I don't know who to blame that on, or if that even can be played on anyone. The 2011 Sox could still finish strong and win around 85 games, which is not a terrible season, but their play almost all year has just felt dead. I hope that's corrected next year.

ilsox7
09-08-2011, 11:08 AM
I'm thinking Danks and TCQ get traded. Sale goes into rotation. MB is a wild card.

chisoxjtrain
09-08-2011, 11:13 AM
I just hope that, whatever happens in the next few years, there's no repeat of this team's lifeless, sometimes seemingly lacksidasical effort. Everytime they have runners in scoring position, I don't expect them to score. Every time they fall 3-4 runs behind, I assume the game is over. There doesn't feel like there's any spark. I don't know who to blame that on, or if that even can be played on anyone. The 2011 Sox could still finish strong and win around 85 games, which is not a terrible season, but their play almost all year has just felt dead. I hope that's corrected next year.

I agree with your last two posts in this thread.

I can deal with losing if you can see they are playing hard. Watching some players dog it (looking at you Rios) just really bothers me as a fan. I really hate watching what Bob Brenly (he hasn't called the Sox this, just using the phrase as an example) would describe as a dead ass team.

Nellie_Fox
09-08-2011, 11:15 AM
Watching some players dog it (looking at you Rios)I was really surprised when Rios broke his bat over his knee after the called third strike last night. I think it's the first time I've ever seen him display any emotion at all.

delben91
09-08-2011, 11:34 AM
It seems like it can't be worse, but I'm not sure how much better it will be. I could easily see Morel, Beckham, Rios, and Alexei having similar years next season. I could see PK regressing or staying the same. Same with TCQ if they keep him. Same with AJ. I don't see those three having better numbers next year. I agree Viciedo will be an upgrade over Pierre, but I don't know how much of an actual upgrade he'll be. His OBP won't be any better. He'll have more home runs by a long shot, but how much of a difference will 20 home runs have vs. 2? 18 runs over a season? I can't imagine that Dunn will be historically bad, but he could still be bad.

I think the team desperately needs a new bat somewhere and to hold onto whatever offense they have. If it means replacing Morel or Beckham with a veteran, so be it. Of course, if they're going to trade Beckham, they better get a nice haul for him.

You can't assume Beckham will have a similar year next year to this year's terrible showing and then expect a "haul" if the Sox trade him.

Noneck
09-08-2011, 12:15 PM
I also think he makes Quentin more expendable, who can probably be moved to either snag an everyday 2B or 3B who can hit (a novel concept) or provide more salary relief by being shipped with, say, AJ?



AJ making 6M and with his 5/10 clause, will be a very tough sell.

soxfanreggie
09-08-2011, 12:29 PM
The offense was so bad this year that improvement is almost inevitable, the question will be whether it's enough improvement.

Viciedo will be a huge upgrade over Pierre. Dunn and Rios can't be worse, and are likely to be significantly better, even if they still aren't exactly earning their keep. Morel and Beckham figure to be marginally better. Konerko shows no signs of getting old, although a regression from his 10-11 numbers seems reasonable to expect. Alexei underperformed this year.

Assuming the Sox retain TCQ, they should have a markedly improved offense next year. But then again, who knows. :shrug:

My one question with Pierre is who are we batting leadoff on a regular basis if we replace him with Viciedo?

An option could always be to trade TCQ and keep Pierre and De Aza for the OF along with Rios and Viciedo. That would be strictly a financial move as Pierre would sign for a LOT cheaper than TCQ.

Going to "Hypothetical Land" here: I would think TCQ comes in at about $7.5 or $8 million and Pierre could probably be had for $3 million. As long as we keep Dunn in the line-up, we would have to play Viciedo and TCQ in LF and RF. De Aza could be the 4th OF. I guess the question is (if Pierre would sign cheap) - how bad would we need that $5 million for other guys? Also, what could we get on the market for TCQ?

Moses_Scurry
09-08-2011, 12:36 PM
You can't assume Beckham will have a similar year next year to this year's terrible showing and then expect a "haul" if the Sox trade him.

Good point. So I guess the options are to keep Beckham and hope he becomes the player he was advertised to be.

Or

Trade him as part of a "prospect package" to a team looking to unload a veteran salary that would be an upgrade at 2B or 3B.

I don't know what's available, but I'd be inclined to keep Beckham.

doublem23
09-08-2011, 12:54 PM
AJ making 6M and with his 5/10 clause, will be a very tough sell.

Yes, I am well aware of this which, you'll notice, is why I suggested trying to package him with the eminently more movable TCQ.

Nellie_Fox
09-08-2011, 01:18 PM
My one question with Pierre is who are we batting leadoff on a regular basis if we replace him with Viciedo?

An option could always be to trade TCQ and keep Pierre and De Aza for the OF along with Rios and Viciedo. That would be strictly a financial move as Pierre would sign for a LOT cheaper than TCQ. In this hypothetical, you have no place for Pierre to play, because he's strictly a left-fielder. His arm is even a liability there; you simply can't make him your every-day center fielder, and right is out of the question. If you're playing Q and Viciedo, then you have to put Rios or DeAza in center.

Noneck
09-08-2011, 01:27 PM
Yes, I am well aware of this which, you'll notice, is why I suggested trying to package him with the eminently more movable TCQ.

Quentin may be movable but dont expect much in return in the year before becoming a FA, approx 8M salary, another injury year and being saddled with AJ.

MountainCur
09-08-2011, 01:28 PM
If we have to trade one I would much rather keep Danks than Floyd. what is the difference in salary between them?

doublem23
09-08-2011, 02:27 PM
Quentin may be movable but dont expect much in return in the year before becoming a FA, approx 8M salary, another injury year and being saddled with AJ.

I think at this point, just salary relief is good enough. If there is one area the Sox seem to be stacked in, it's OF/1B/DH types.

Noneck
09-08-2011, 03:14 PM
I think at this point, just salary relief is good enough. If there is one area the Sox seem to be stacked in, it's OF/1B/DH types.


So you are advocating a salary dump of Quentin and AJ?

doublem23
09-08-2011, 03:20 PM
So you are advocating a salary dump of Quentin and AJ?

It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that TCQ will need to be moved this off-season unless the Sox can work some magic and unload one of their megacontracts (Rios, Dunn, Peavy). If we can move TCQ for an everyday player at perhaps 2B or CF that can hit, great. If not, I hope they can at least leverage a deal to unload some more fat off the books.

Noneck
09-08-2011, 03:26 PM
It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world

I am with you, we know the payroll will be cut, I dont think Quentin is the type of guy to lock up long term and that means only 1 more year of his services (and it is unlikely that will be a full year considering his yearly injuries). AJ at 6M and on the decline is a good way to save money. Package them for next to nothing is ok by me.

SoxNation05
09-08-2011, 03:58 PM
Agreed. I'm not expecting any playoff baseball from the 2012 White Sox, which is disappointing, but they'll be a decent team, assuming you consider 83 to 86 wins to be decent, which I do.

If we can get a prospect haul for Danks and/or Quentin, 2013 could be promising.

At least we're not the Cubs, right? :redneck

Yeah it is September of '11. Do you reallu think the Sox only offseason move will be trading Danks/CQ? Jesus.

Milw
09-08-2011, 04:01 PM
My one question with Pierre is who are we batting leadoff on a regular basis if we replace him with Viciedo?

De Aza would be a fine leadoff hitter. If we're assuming an outfield of Viciedo/Rios/TCQ, then I'd bat Alexei at leadoff.

Having a "prototypical leadoff hitter" is a luxury, not a necessity. Viciedo and TCQ are both better players than Pierre and deserve to play ahead of him. Maybe not so for Rios at this point, but our hands are kind of tied there. Regardless, the Sox will be fine without Pierre.

Milw
09-08-2011, 04:05 PM
Yeah it is September of '11. Do you reallu think the Sox only offseason move will be trading Danks/CQ? Jesus.
No, I don't. Do I think they will be the only moves of great import? Yes.

They'll surely revamp the bullpen, as they always do, and they may even add a journeyman veteran to man 2B or 3B. I don't expect either of those things to have a substantial impact on the overall outlook, however.

Good chance I'm wrong, but just as likely I'm right.

doublem23
09-08-2011, 04:06 PM
Yeah it is September of '11. Do you reallu think the Sox only offseason move will be trading Danks/CQ? Jesus.

Learn how to ****ing place nice.

DumpJerry
09-08-2011, 04:53 PM
I was really surprised when Rios broke his bat over his knee after the called third strike last night. I think it's the first time I've ever seen him display any emotion at all.
You obviously have not been with him on payday.

Brian26
09-08-2011, 09:38 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Buehrle plus one of either Danks or Floyd gone for 2012.

My insane take on this (because I think you need a major overhaul).

Danks is gone after 2012 anyway. Floyd has been battling injuries to close down the season for the past two years (hip 09, shoulder 10). You trade both of them. The team that gets Danks must take either Rios or Dunn (and all money left on the contract) since Danks will be a Type-A free agent after 2012.

Re-sign Buehrle for three years. Rotation next year: Buehrle/Peavy/Humber/Stewart/Sale.

Konerko has proven he's got the mental capacity to play DH or rotate DH/1B, so he becomes the primary DH.

Target Acquisitions:

James Loney of the Dodgers to play 1B and fill DH occassionally.
Matt Joyce from Tampa Bay for LF
Neil Walker from Pirates for 3B
Michael Bourn for CF (Free Agent)

Possible trades:
Quentin/Morel to Atlanta for Bourn + pitching prospects
Danks/Dunn(all remaining 42million) to Dodgers for Loney
Floyd to Pirates for Walker + prospects
Beckham to Tampa for Joyce + prospects

2012 Lineup

1 Bourne CF
2 Ramirez SS
3 Loney 1B
4 Konerko DH
5 Viciedo RF
6 Joyce LF
7 Walker 3B
8 Pierzynski/Flowers C
9 Lillibridge 2B

DeAza is your outfield supersub. Escobar is your infield supersub.

The only guy I can't get rid of in this make-believe offseason is Rios.

Flame away. :D:

russ99
09-09-2011, 08:39 AM
In this hypothetical, you have no place for Pierre to play, because he's strictly a left-fielder. His arm is even a liability there; you simply can't make him your every-day center fielder, and right is out of the question. If you're playing Q and Viciedo, then you have to put Rios or DeAza in center.

Pierre seems a likely place to cut payroll, so I doubt he's back, even though he's done pretty well for us.

With TCQ on the trade block, I'd like to see Viciedo in right, Rios (who nobody will take until he bounces back) in CF and for the Sox to acquire or sign a young quality player who can hit well for average to play LF.

De Aza could be a stopgap, but he's hitting well over his career numbers in the 98AB's so far, so there's no guarantee he can do the same playing full-time, and would likely regress.

As for leadoff, I think the Sox were planning to replace Pierre with Mitchell, but that's not exactly worked out. Not sure what we're going to do there, other than try out the new LF and see what happens.

The stopgaps proposed by the "we don't need a leadoff hitter" crowd either aren't patient enough, don't get on base enough or strike out too much, not to mention that they're no threat on the basepaths.

russ99
09-09-2011, 08:40 AM
My insane take on this (because I think you need a major overhaul).

Danks is gone after 2012 anyway. Floyd has been battling injuries to close down the season for the past two years (hip 09, shoulder 10). You trade both of them. The team that gets Danks must take either Rios or Dunn (and all money left on the contract) since Danks will be a Type-A free agent after 2012.

Re-sign Buehrle for three years. Rotation next year: Buehrle/Peavy/Humber/Stewart/Sale.

Konerko has proven he's got the mental capacity to play DH or rotate DH/1B, so he becomes the primary DH.

Target Acquisitions:

James Loney of the Dodgers to play 1B and fill DH occassionally.
Matt Joyce from Tampa Bay for LF
Neil Walker from Pirates for 3B
Michael Bourn for CF (Free Agent)

Possible trades:
Quentin/Morel to Atlanta for Bourn + pitching prospects
Danks/Dunn(all remaining 42million) to Dodgers for Loney
Floyd to Pirates for Walker + prospects
Beckham to Tampa for Joyce + prospects

2012 Lineup

1 Bourne CF
2 Ramirez SS
3 Loney 1B
4 Konerko DH
5 Viciedo RF
6 Joyce LF
7 Walker 3B
8 Pierzynski/Flowers C
9 Lillibridge 2B

DeAza is your outfield supersub. Escobar is your infield supersub.

The only guy I can't get rid of in this make-believe offseason is Rios.

Flame away. :D:

I like it, other than the weakening of the rotation, but a pretty good plan. I hope whoever the Sox GM is has the gumption to shake up the roster as much.

The Atlanta trade is sketchy at best. They gave up 4 good prospects for Bourn as the "missing piece" of their lineup and he's not a FA until after next season. Normally, the Dodgers may bite on that kind of deal, but they're still financially a mess and could be or could not be for sale, so you'll need to find another trade partner in the NL.

doublem23
09-09-2011, 09:23 AM
I struggle to see how, if the Rays make Joyce available, will not be able to find something better than Gordon Beckham.

Mohoney
09-09-2011, 08:50 PM
Danks is in his final arbitration year. I think he gets traded this offseason and Sale takes his place in the rotation. I don't see any way that we sign him to the long-term deal that he will surely command on the open market.

Hopefully the trade gets us a legit 2B, 3B, or CF that is under control for at least 2, if not 3, years.

Mohoney
09-09-2011, 08:55 PM
Agreed. I'm not expecting any playoff baseball from the 2012 White Sox, which is disappointing, but they'll be a decent team, assuming you consider 83 to 86 wins to be decent, which I do.

If we can get a prospect haul for Danks and/or Quentin, 2013 could be promising.

At least we're not the Cubs, right? :redneck

I think you will have your Danks trade this offseason and your Quentin trade next offseason. I don't think Quentin will be dealt after the complete disaster that this team put up offensively this season. He was one of the only real bright spots offensively this year.

Mohoney
09-09-2011, 08:59 PM
The team that gets Danks must take either Rios or Dunn (and all money left on the contract) since Danks will be a Type-A free agent after 2012.


There is no chance in hell of that happening. I don't think anybody would do that trade even if you substituted the name "John Danks" for "Justin Verlander". Maybe the Yankees, but that's about it.

You're asking for a team to absorb 50+ million of dead payroll for John Danks? You're getting laughed out of the room.

Tragg
09-09-2011, 09:09 PM
Didn't Don Cooper say Chris Sale will be joining the rotation next year?

Hope so.

We might trade danks too, as there's not chance to extend him.

PalehosePlanet
09-09-2011, 09:57 PM
I think you will have your Danks trade this offseason and your Quentin trade next offseason. I don't think Quentin will be dealt after the complete disaster that this team put up offensively this season. He was one of the only real bright spots offensively this year.

Quentin is a free agent after next season, so we cannot trade him next off season. I'm not sure where the organization stands on Q, but for some reason I don't see us offering him an extension.

There is no chance in hell of that happening. I don't think anybody would do that trade even if you substituted the name "John Danks" for "Justin Verlander". Maybe the Yankees, but that's about it.

You're asking for a team to absorb 50+ million of dead payroll for John Danks? You're getting laughed out of the room.

Rios is owed 37 million over the last 3 years of his contract, not 50+. I could see someone like The Red Sox taking him to replace JD Drew so they could get their hands on Danks.

It's not as crazy a thought as you think.

Brian26
09-09-2011, 10:02 PM
You're asking for a team to absorb 50+ million of dead payroll for John Danks? You're getting laughed out of the room.

Neither guy has 50+ million of salary left.

And you don't think the Yankees or Red Sox would take Verlander and Dunn in a heartbeat with the only request is that they eat the salary? Come on. That's hyperbole.

Brian26
09-09-2011, 10:06 PM
It's not as crazy a thought as you think.

It's all fantasy trade talk; but it's interesting to try to come up with logical/feasible combinations that might work and not the typical crap you hear on sports radio. That idea of Danks being traded along with the contract of Dunn or Rios is a trade model that's been used before. Perhaps the most recent example was Cabrera & Dontrelle Willis to Detroit.

PalehosePlanet
09-09-2011, 10:09 PM
My insane take on this (because I think you need a major overhaul).

Danks is gone after 2012 anyway. Floyd has been battling injuries to close down the season for the past two years (hip 09, shoulder 10). You trade both of them. The team that gets Danks must take either Rios or Dunn (and all money left on the contract) since Danks will be a Type-A free agent after 2012.

Re-sign Buehrle for three years. Rotation next year: Buehrle/Peavy/Humber/Stewart/Sale.

Konerko has proven he's got the mental capacity to play DH or rotate DH/1B, so he becomes the primary DH.

Target Acquisitions:

James Loney of the Dodgers to play 1B and fill DH occassionally.
Matt Joyce from Tampa Bay for LF
Neil Walker from Pirates for 3B
Michael Bourn for CF (Free Agent)

Possible trades:
Quentin/Morel to Atlanta for Bourn + pitching prospects
Danks/Dunn(all remaining 42million) to Dodgers for Loney
Floyd to Pirates for Walker + prospects
Beckham to Tampa for Joyce + prospects

2012 Lineup

1 Bourne CF
2 Ramirez SS
3 Loney 1B
4 Konerko DH
5 Viciedo RF
6 Joyce LF
7 Walker 3B
8 Pierzynski/Flowers C
9 Lillibridge 2B

DeAza is your outfield supersub. Escobar is your infield supersub.

The only guy I can't get rid of in this make-believe offseason is Rios.

Flame away. :D:

Even if The Dodgers did take Dunn's contract off our hands, Loney is not enough of a return for Danks.

In fact Loney, a .719 OPS'ing 1B, is good candidate to be non tendered.

Nellie_Fox
09-10-2011, 12:35 AM
With TCQ on the trade block...Where, other than posters on WSI, do you get this information?

StillMissOzzie
09-10-2011, 02:14 AM
It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that TCQ will need to be moved this off-season unless the Sox can work some magic and unload one of their megacontracts (Rios, Dunn, Peavy). If we can move TCQ for an everyday player at perhaps 2B or CF that can hit, great. If not, I hope they can at least leverage a deal to unload some more fat off the books.

I would be surprised to see any other team take any of the megacontract boys off of the Sox' hands. I think that the Sox might have to do a bad paper for bad paper swap, like the Cubs did when they took Carlos Silva for Milton Bradley. Hence, little or no salary relief.

Switching gears, let's get back to Buehrle. Do you think it is a forgone conclusion that he gone? I think that he is on the downslide, what with being a .500 pitcher on a .500 team, but he takes the ball every start and usually ( except for tonight!) gives you 5-7 quality innings. Is this his big chance to end his career with the Cardinals? We all know JR's aversion to going more than 3 years on a pitcher, and Buehrle's last deal was an exception. Now he is 5 years older, and probably won't command QUITE the market value as before. But, with payroll cutbacks looming, he may still be too much to keep.

I just hope that JR doesn't make a token lowball offer, ala Robin Ventura, knowing full well he already has a better offer. Save yourself and us fans the embarrassment, please! If his demands are too high / too long, just thank him for the last 10 years of service and wish him all the best.


SMO
:gulp:

ZombieRob
09-10-2011, 04:30 AM
I'm with Daver on this one. 150 lbs with that delivery he's not going to make it till 26 starting in this league. His delivery is all arm action, hardly any leg power.

Lip Man 1
09-10-2011, 10:28 AM
Nellie:

To be fair, it's been widely reported by the mainstream media in Chicago the number of scouts and the teams they represented who were looking at him. They also speculate that because of the financial hit the Sox are probably taking this year, coupled with what Q can get if he goes to arbitration, plus the fact that he's missed time again due to an injury (3rd serious one with the Sox) that he's on the block.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2011, 10:56 AM
I think they can retain Buehrle simply because of the savings generated already by dealing Teahen and not re-signing Pierre and Vizquel, non-tendering Pena, and trading Ohman.

I plan on a rebound year from Rios, and will have him lead off. Also, Dunn will only DH against RHP and will hit 7th. Paulie, Viciedio (LF) and Quentin (RF) rotate at DH v. LHP, while Lillibridge plays the position (1B, RF, LF) for whomever is the DH v. LHP.

Lineup: Rios, Alexei, Paulie, Quentin, Viciedo, AJ, Dunn, Morel, Beckham

Bench: Flowers, Lillibridge, Escobar, DeAza

Rotation: Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Humber

Bullpen: Santos, Sale, Crain, Thornton, Frasor, Reed, Stewart

WhiteSoxOnly
09-10-2011, 11:52 AM
You guys have brought up some interesting scenarios in this thread.A little tweaking here and there,some major movement as well.But what if JR orders Kenny,or his replacement,to initiate a plan that involves substantial payroll reduction for next year ? does anybody think that it's a possibility that Reinsdorf would demand that after seeing the failure of the last 3 years with a high payroll that he reverses course and the team attempts to load up on yutes ?

I know,i know,Sox fans are not exactly the patient type who like to fill the ballpark while watching a version of the KC Royals.I wouldn't want to go back to see if the kids can play part duce.Just throwing it out there though.Would JR say to himself,"hell,if i'm going to continue to get a lesser result with what we're paying now,let's pay less overall"...

PalehosePlanet
09-10-2011, 12:30 PM
I think they can retain Buehrle simply because of the savings generated already by dealing Teahen and not re-signing Pierre and Vizquel, non-tendering Pena, and trading Ohman.

I plan on a rebound year from Rios, and will have him lead off. Also, Dunn will only DH against RHP and will hit 7th. Paulie, Viciedio (LF) and Quentin (RF) rotate at DH v. LHP, while Lillibridge plays the position (1B, RF, LF) for whomever is the DH v. LHP.

Lineup: Rios, Alexei, Paulie, Quentin, Viciedo, AJ, Dunn, Morel, Beckham

Bench: Flowers, Lillibridge, Escobar, DeAza

Rotation: Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Humber

Bullpen: Santos, Sale, Crain, Thornton, Frasor, Reed, Stewart

Well, we started 2011 with a 125 million dollar payroll, so under your scenario here is a rough breakdown for 2012:

Minus 8 million for Edwin Jackson; - 4.75 for Teahen; - 5 for Perre; and minus about 4.5 for Vizquel, Pena and Ohman combined.

This leaves us at roughly 102.5, with the following additions/raises kicking in: AJ plus 4 million; Alexei + 4 million; Gavin +2; Jake +1; Rios and Crain +1 combined; Frasor + 3.75 (option); and Q and Danks likely 3 million combined.

This brings the total back up to about 122 million, if Buehrle is at the same money, and not even counting whatever raise Humber will receive.

Now, I won't pretend to know what JR has in mind for payroll next year, but it would seem, to me anyway, that he'd be hesitant to gamble again after a major failure this year.

My gut feeling is that Buehrle only returns if we're able to shed one big contract or two to three mid level contracts.

EDIT: I forgot about Thornton also receiving a 2.5 million raise. That would put us at about this years starting payroll.

Brian26
09-10-2011, 01:11 PM
Lineup: Rios, Alexei, Paulie, Quentin, Viciedo, AJ, Dunn, Morel, Beckham

Bench: Flowers, Lillibridge, Escobar, DeAza

Rotation: Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Floyd, Humber

Bullpen: Santos, Sale, Crain, Thornton, Frasor, Reed, Stewart

You're playing it more conservatively than I was, with maintaining the starting staff. But, I just look at that lineup and cringe at the question marks. You need bounce-back years from too many guys. I think we need more turnover.

Frater Perdurabo
09-10-2011, 02:00 PM
You're playing it more conservatively than I was, with maintaining the starting staff. But, I just look at that lineup and cringe at the question marks. You need bounce-back years from too many guys. I think we need more turnover.

I'm counting on Rios and Dunn to progress to the mean of their recent career averages. I'm also counting on continued progress from Morel, and Beckham getting better results with a different hitting coach.

Red Barchetta
09-10-2011, 02:08 PM
I'm thinking Danks and TCQ get traded. Sale goes into rotation. MB is a wild card.

Great, they get rid of one my favorite players, TCQ, and we keep Rios and Dunn. :(:

Nellie_Fox
09-10-2011, 04:27 PM
Nellie:

To be fair, it's been widely reported by the mainstream media in Chicago the number of scouts and the teams they represented who were looking at him. They also speculate that because of the financial hit the Sox are probably taking this year, coupled with what Q can get if he goes to arbitration, plus the fact that he's missed time again due to an injury (3rd serious one with the Sox) that he's on the block.

LipSpeculation is one thing, stating "he's on the trading block" like it's a well-known certainty is another.

Domeshot17
09-10-2011, 05:01 PM
If it was up to me, let Buehrle walk, Use that money on Danks. Sale has the potential to be a top of the line starter. Peavy-Danks-Floyd-Sale-Humber with Stewart as the long man/emergency is a very good rotation. Stewart threw a gem, but he doesn't have it for a whole season. You could put him as the 5 if Humber walks, but we are best served with him in an emergency role.

I loved Burls (see my sig from years ago), but from a Business sense, Danks is the better investment.

russ99
09-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Nellie:

To be fair, it's been widely reported by the mainstream media in Chicago the number of scouts and the teams they represented who were looking at him. They also speculate that because of the financial hit the Sox are probably taking this year, coupled with what Q can get if he goes to arbitration, plus the fact that he's missed time again due to an injury (3rd serious one with the Sox) that he's on the block.

Lip

Also, there was tons of speculation that the Sox were going to move him at the deadline, but Kenny decided with a few days to go to the deadline to hold on to him.

Also, he's making $5.05M this year, so we're looking at $6.25-6.75 next year, and the Sox are surely cutting payroll this offseason.

russ99
09-10-2011, 06:04 PM
If it was up to me, let Buehrle walk, Use that money on Danks. Sale has the potential to be a top of the line starter. Peavy-Danks-Floyd-Sale-Humber with Stewart as the long man/emergency is a very good rotation. Stewart threw a gem, but he doesn't have it for a whole season. You could put him as the 5 if Humber walks, but we are best served with him in an emergency role.

I loved Burls (see my sig from years ago), but from a Business sense, Danks is the better investment.

Depending on how steep the payroll cut will be this offseason, I could see the Sox hold onto Danks, since even if he has a similarly solid year next year he won't make in FA the same kind of contract as Peavy, who's option likely won't be picked up for 2013.

So in long-term planning, Danks' salary replaces Peavy's.