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View Full Version : *Official* 8-29 Buehrle deals; the kids can hit; SOX 3 MIN 0 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
08-29-2011, 09:15 PM
Viciedo even steals a base.

Nice to get a home win. Now, let's win tomorrow and then sweep these pukes on Wednesday.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-29-2011, 09:17 PM
Brain fart post goes here.

What can we say, the Sox have some players that look like they can hit. Let's get Rios out of the cleanup spot and REALLY do some damage.

Zakath
08-29-2011, 09:18 PM
4 in a row, and 4 in a row over the Twins.

Two over .500 for the first time since April 13.

SI1020
08-29-2011, 09:18 PM
Youth shall be served. Now keep it going.

voodoochile
08-29-2011, 09:18 PM
Another real solid team win. Mark Buehrle is simply beast.

Nice to see the Sox pay back some of those Twinkie moments from the past several years.

2 games over? hmmmm....

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

soxfan1965
08-29-2011, 09:18 PM
Five back. Nice one Mark! The kids can play, what a boost!

all*star quentin
08-29-2011, 09:18 PM
That's one WIN, two more to sweep. :)

Foulke You
08-29-2011, 09:18 PM
4 in a row against the Twins. 2 over .500. Just keep winning Sox.

TheOldRoman
08-29-2011, 09:18 PM
Great game by Buehrle. The offense should have done more, but at least we got the win. 5 games back with six left against the Tigers. Let's keep it going.

Zakath
08-29-2011, 09:18 PM
Isn't this the Sox's third straight shutout?

No. Seattle scored 3 on Sunday.

vinny
08-29-2011, 09:19 PM
The kids are all right. And love the pace Buerhle set - 2 hours 7 minutes!

Since JB98 isn't on tonight, let me just say:

The Twins are crappy. They are perpetual losers.

**** the Twins.

billyvsox
08-29-2011, 09:19 PM
Is it just a coincidence that when the Sox decided to call up Viciedo on Friday they are 4-0 ?

Rikirk
08-29-2011, 09:20 PM
This Viciedo and Flowers kids, where have we been keeping them all year?

GlassSox
08-29-2011, 09:20 PM
Buehrle with an outstanding outing. Nice to see the this line up perform. Some heads up base running by Alexei.

Big Dunn out - Little rout :tongue:

Let's get another win tomorrow night.

Zakath
08-29-2011, 09:21 PM
Is it just a coincidence that when the Sox decided to call up Viciedo on Friday they are 4-0 ?

Helps when you play two teams who are a combined 41 games under .500 coming into the night.

Then again, we tend to play to the level of our competition...

kittle42
08-29-2011, 09:22 PM
Can we replace a few more guys in the lineup with virtual unknowns, too? It works!!!

tstrike2000
08-29-2011, 09:22 PM
Two games over? I might faint.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-29-2011, 09:23 PM
Helps when you play two teams who are a combined 41 games under .500 coming into the night.

Then again, we tend to play to the level of our competition...

We can only play who's on the schedule.

This is the time we need to take wins no matter who they're against. KC beat DET, and they're worse than the Twins, so let's just walk away, say "thank you" and get ready for tomorrow.

cards press box
08-29-2011, 09:24 PM
Only one thing to say:

:winner

Brian26
08-29-2011, 09:27 PM
Is it just a coincidence that when the Sox decided to call up Viciedo on Friday they are 4-0 ?

Yes, since he hadn't even taken off from Charlotte airport until the start of the game on Friday night and then didn't play on Saturday.

asindc
08-29-2011, 09:29 PM
For those wondering why some of us have become more optimistic recently, the last two games are examples of why. Let's ride the youth movement!:bandance:

Brian26
08-29-2011, 09:29 PM
When Buehrle left the mound, he gave a fist bump to Flowers. You don't often see a pitcher acknowledge his catcher so overtly like that. Too bad AJ's got a no-trade clause and an inmovable contract for '12.

Aesero
08-29-2011, 09:31 PM
Good game by Buehrle and Team Charlotte. Would have been more enjoyable had I not seen Rios in it.

doublem23
08-29-2011, 09:35 PM
Good game by Buehrle and Team Charlotte. Would have been more enjoyable had I not seen Rios in it.

Once Carlos comes back there's basically no reason to see Rios except in pinch running duty. And there's no reason to see AJ more than once per week whenever he gets back.

Viciedo/Flowers 2012!

ChicagoG19
08-29-2011, 09:35 PM
Sox Win and :twins lose

Always a good night when that happens. :dtroll:

TDog
08-29-2011, 09:35 PM
Early this year, and pretty much in recent years, the one-game playoff notwithstanding, the White Sox seemed to bring out the best in the Twins. During the last trip to Minnesota, and especially tonight, the Twins brought out the best in the White Sox.

It wasn't that the Sox pounded the Twins tonight. It was more as if the White Sox took advantage of the Twins despite a strong start by Slowey. The callups stood out. De Aza, Flowers and Viciedo were responsible for the scoring, the first two runs anyway.

Ramirez stole the third run. (If a Twins player had that inning against the White Sox, the word "embarrassing" would have been thrown out.) Tagging up on the fly ball out, coming off first as if he were in sprinters' blocks, not catching anyone by surprise, and then scoring from second an infield hit with two outs must have made the Cell a fun place to be tonight. And if you don't watch the games, Ramirez made it look like a clutch line drive in the box score. The way Ramirez was running from second, it looked like he would have tried to score on an infield hit, as speedy runners often do with two outs. Such was the energy tonight.

Of course, like the last two wins in Seattle, it began with the starting pitching, against a team this weekend that gave Verlander all he could handle (and a non-quality start, although it was his 20th win).

De Aza continues to impress. Flowers, who wouldn't be getting this sort of playing time if Castro hadn't gone down before Pierzynski did, continues to impress at the plate and the field. Viciedo continues to hit.

And they did it knowing that the Royals were pounding the Tigers.

No complaints. Another pretty win.

Frater Perdurabo
08-29-2011, 09:37 PM
When Buehrle left the mound, he gave a fist bump to Flowers. You don't often see a pitcher acknowledge his catcher so overtly like that. Too bad AJ's got a no-trade clause and an inmovable contract for '12.

We still need two catchers. Since we're stuck with AJ for 2012, and since he's still a decent hitter, an AJ/Flowers > AJ/Castro.

Zakath
08-29-2011, 09:37 PM
As mentioned on CSN, Twins are now only 1/2 game ahead of the Royals for last. :wooty::bliss::devil::dancers:

ChicagoG19
08-29-2011, 09:37 PM
Once Carlos comes back there's basically no reason to see Rios except in pinch running duty. And there's no reason to see AJ more than once per week whenever he gets back.

Viciedo/Flowers 2012!

AJ was doing alright before he got hurt. I don't understand why you would play him only once per week.

kevingrt
08-29-2011, 09:38 PM
Good game by Buehrle and Team Charlotte. Would have been more enjoyable had I not seen Rios in it.

Can we just count Lillibridge in Team Charlotte because he has been under-used the past two months?

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-29-2011, 09:38 PM
Early this year, and pretty much in recent years, the one-game playoff notwithstanding, the White Sox seemed to bring out the best in the Twins. During the last trip to Minnesota, and especially tonight, the Twins brought out the best in the White Sox.

It wasn't that the Sox pounded the Twins tonight. It was more as if the White Sox took advantage of the Twins despite a strong start by Slowey. The callups stood out. De Aza, Flowers and Viciedo were responsible for the scoring, the first two runs anyway.

Ramirez stole the third run. (If a Twins player had that inning against the White Sox, the word "embarrassing" would have been thrown out.) Tagging up on the fly ball out, coming off first as if he were in sprinters' blocks, not catching anyone by surprise, and then scoring from second an infield hit with two outs must have made the Cell a fun place to be tonight. And if you don't watch the games, Ramirez made it look like a clutch line drive in the box score. The way Ramirez was running from second, it looked like he would have tried to score on an infield hit, as speedy runners often do with two outs. Such was the energy tonight.

Of course, like the last two wins in Seattle, it began with the starting pitching, against a team this weekend that gave Verlander all he could handle (and a non-quality start, although it was his 20th win).

De Aza continues to impress. Flowers, who wouldn't be getting this sort of playing time if Castro hadn't gone down before Pierzynski did, continues to impress at the plate and the field. Viciedo continues to hit.

And they did it knowing that the Royals were pounding the Tigers.

No complaints. Another pretty win.

Normally I don't agree with a lot of your posts, but I'll :gulp: to this one.

TDog
08-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Once Carlos comes back there's basically no reason to see Rios except in pinch running duty. And there's no reason to see AJ more than once per week whenever he gets back.

Viciedo/Flowers 2012!

I don't totally disagree with your post, but Pierzynski is hitting .296. With expanded rosters, it really wouldn't surprise me if he did some DHing.

Tragg
08-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Once Carlos comes back there's basically no reason to see Rios except in pinch running duty. And there's no reason to see AJ more than once per week whenever he gets back.

Viciedo/Flowers 2012!
(and for the rest of 2011)
Otherwise, Amen!

VMSNS
08-29-2011, 09:40 PM
The kids can play. I know it's too early to really discern anything about this situation with Viciedo/Flowers/De Aza, but if these kids continue to play well and the Sox don't win the division, then heads better roll, starting with Kenny.

...oh, and I hope there's some way we can work Flowers into the lineup next season without being just a backup catcher who only plays occasionally. He looks really good so far, and he seems to call a good game, too.

KenBerryGrab
08-29-2011, 09:41 PM
Four on the loss side.

Boondock Saint
08-29-2011, 09:41 PM
When Buehrle left the mound, he gave a fist bump to Flowers. You don't often see a pitcher acknowledge his catcher so overtly like that. Too bad AJ's got a no-trade clause and an inmovable contract for '12.

I don't think AJ's contract is immovable, and I think he'd accept a trade if his options are accept a trade or spend your contract year as a backup catcher playing once a week.

TDog
08-29-2011, 09:42 PM
Normally I don't agree with a lot of your posts, but I'll :gulp: to this one.


If we always agreed, there would be no reason to post.

palehozenychicty
08-29-2011, 09:44 PM
Buehrle has really benefitted from the 6-man rotation. It has been a long time where he is this automatic late in the year.

Zakath
08-29-2011, 09:44 PM
Four on the loss side.

With two in hand.

Tigers are 12 over .500. They're also 12 over vs. the Central, and Verlander is 15 games over .500.

IOW, we're chasing a pretty mediocre team.

doublem23
08-29-2011, 09:45 PM
AJ was doing alright before he got hurt. I don't understand why you would play him only once per week.

Because Flowers might be better

slavko
08-29-2011, 09:46 PM
How long has it been since a runner on 1B tagged up on a medium flyball? They did it a couple times in 2004 and I can't remember the last time. It should be simple on a fly to LF, CF. Start running, the throw's in front of you, if it looks strong and on target, you go back.

It bothers me that the Twins are playing this kind of incompetent baseball because they are my model of a well-run team.....ahhh, I'm just crapping you.

Brian26
08-29-2011, 09:46 PM
AJ was doing alright before he got hurt. I don't understand why you would play him only once per week.

I like the idea of riding the hot hand. Flowers is locked in. Don't give AJ the starting job back, six out of every seven days, coming off the 15 day DL. Then you risk messing up two guys' rhythm.

I still think the Sox should consider letting AJ play first, similar to how Fisk played first in late innings in 1990-1991.

doublem23
08-29-2011, 09:49 PM
I like the idea of riding the hot hand. Flowers is locked in. Don't give AJ the starting job back, six out of every seven days, coming off the 15 day DL. Then you risk messing up two guys' rhythm.

I still think the Sox should consider letting AJ play first, similar to how Fisk played first in late innings in 1990-1991.

Maybe but between Paulie, Lillibridge, and the occasional Adam Dunn game (you know he's going to play every now and then) the Sox don't seem to have a shortage of 1B.

It is nice to be trying to figure out how to squeeze everyone in the lineup instead of the game we've been playing all year long... How do you hide 7 automatic outs?

AJ can come back next year and get the majority of the starts if he plays well as a swan song send off, we'll see how that shakes out, but Tyler has been spectacular since he got here and, as nice of a year as AJ was having, Tyler's been basically better in every facet of the game.

SoxNation05
08-29-2011, 09:51 PM
I say we throw Flowers in the 4 spot. Convince the kid he is as good as he thinks. Flowers has a boatload of confidence and I think we can take advantage of it. Plus, no one else deserves to be there.

Zakath
08-29-2011, 09:51 PM
I like the idea of riding the hot hand. Flowers is locked in. Don't give AJ the starting job back, six out of every seven days, coming off the 15 day DL. Then you risk messing up two guys' rhythm.

I still think the Sox should consider letting AJ play first, similar to how Fisk played first in late innings in 1990-1991.

Provided AJ does come back, I'd almost expect that the opposing pitcher will determine who's behind the plate each game, but Flowers is actually hitting better off righties than lefties.

fram40
08-29-2011, 09:54 PM
The kids can play. I know it's too early to really discern anything about this situation with Viciedo/Flowers/De Aza, but if these kids continue to play well and the Sox don't win the division, then heads better roll, starting with Kenny.



If these kids continue to play well ... heads should roll no matter how the year ends up. If Viciedo/Flowers/De Aza had gotten plaing time earlier ...

But let's face it - 20/20 hindsight is always correct

Add five games to this winning streak and the Sox are no more than two games back - one in the loss column. Hard to believe

Dibbs
08-29-2011, 09:54 PM
Don't get excited everybody. Walker hasn't had much time to work with Flowers, Viciedo and De Aza yet.

kevingrt
08-29-2011, 09:54 PM
Maybe but between Paulie, Lillibridge, and the occasional Adam Dunn game (you know he's going to play every now and then) the Sox don't seem to have a shortage of 1B.

It is nice to be trying to figure out how to squeeze everyone in the lineup instead of the game we've been playing all year long... How do you hide 7 automatic outs?

AJ can come back next year and get the majority of the starts if he plays well as a swan song send off, we'll see how that shakes out, but Tyler has been spectacular since he got here and, as nice of a year as AJ was having, Tyler's been basically better in every facet of the game.

Who are we (Sox fans) trying to squeeze into the line-up? With a healthy team the only guys that should be playing are Flowers/AJ, Paulie, Becks, Alexei, Morel, Pierre/De Aza/TCQ/Viciedo. That's ten spots last I saw. Get Lillibeast out there 2-3 times a week. Let DH fluctuate between back-up catcher, CQ, Viciedo, and PK and I'm set.

Not much squeezing to be done, just what $28 lying to waste on the bench.

doublem23
08-29-2011, 09:57 PM
Who are we (Sox fans) trying to squeeze into the line-up? With a healthy team the only guys that should be playing are Flowers/AJ, Paulie, Becks, Alexei, Morel, Pierre/De Aza/TCQ/Viciedo. That's ten spots last I saw. Get Lillibeast out there 2-3 times a week. Let DH fluctuate between back-up catcher, CQ, Viciedo, and PK and I'm set.

Not much squeezing to be done, just what $28 lying to waste on the bench.

OK, but you're only allowed to play 9 at a time.

palehozenychicty
08-29-2011, 09:57 PM
Maybe but between Paulie, Lillibridge, and the occasional Adam Dunn game (you know he's going to play every now and then) the Sox don't seem to have a shortage of 1B.

It is nice to be trying to figure out how to squeeze everyone in the lineup instead of the game we've been playing all year long... How do you hide 7 automatic outs?

AJ can come back next year and get the majority of the starts if he plays well as a swan song send off, we'll see how that shakes out, but Tyler has been spectacular since he got here and, as nice of a year as AJ was having, Tyler's been basically better in every facet of the game.

Exactly. I will always be down with AJ, but it just may be time.

thomas35forever
08-29-2011, 09:59 PM
Missed this one, but anytime we shut out the Twins, I'm so happy.

ChiSoxGal85
08-29-2011, 10:04 PM
Missed this one, but anytime we shut out the Twins, I'm so happy.
Me too, but it's DVRed so I'll probably watch it tomorrow. Even if I know how it ends, it's always good to see a White Sox win! And I really wanna see Alexei leg out that tag on the fly to center, and the subsequent RBI. :D:

MountainCur
08-29-2011, 10:11 PM
De Aza is becoming my favorite player

doublem23
08-29-2011, 10:15 PM
De Aza is becoming my favorite player

Just the insertion of De Aza and Flowers into the regular lineup has me enjoying the Sox more than I have all season long. Toss in Dayan now and they've piqued my interest, even if they (likely) don't do anything this year, I'm at least having fun watching them play and a lot more optimistic about upcoming seasons than I was in mid-June.

Just gotta ****in fire Ozzie.

BNLSox
08-29-2011, 10:15 PM
AJ was doing alright before he got hurt. I don't understand why you would play him only once per week.

I agree. AJ is quite clutch and calls a good game. I think finding a way to get them both in the lineup would be good. I just have no idea how to get that done with Viciedo and Quentin in the lineup.

Boondock Saint
08-29-2011, 10:17 PM
Just the insertion of De Aza and Flowers into the regular lineup has me enjoying the Sox more than I have all season long. Toss in Dayan now and they've piqued my interest, even if they (likely) don't do anything this year, I'm at least having fun watching them play and a lot more optimistic about upcoming seasons than I was in mid-June.

Just gotta ****in fire Ozzie.

****ing right.

1989
08-29-2011, 10:18 PM
It is no wonder why De Aza is killing the ball, his walkup music is Alejandro. It's science people.

doublem23
08-29-2011, 10:19 PM
It is no wonder why De Aza is killing the ball, his walkup music is Alejandro. It's science people.

Are you suggesting this should be Beckham's walk-up music?

A9A4HRzHz5Y

Lip Man 1
08-29-2011, 10:19 PM
Two games over .500?? Be still my beating heart!

Buehrle looked great.

12th shutout by the team this season. Pitching has been very, very good since early May.

15 more wins for a winning season.

Lip

MountainCur
08-29-2011, 10:24 PM
Just the insertion of De Aza and Flowers into the regular lineup has me enjoying the Sox more than I have all season long. Toss in Dayan now and they've piqued my interest, even if they (likely) don't do anything this year, I'm at least having fun watching them play and a lot more optimistic about upcoming seasons than I was in mid-June.

Just gotta ****in fire Ozzie.


I agree about the interest rising - for the first time in a couple of months I am planning things around White Sox games again - as opposed to just turning them on when I happen to be in front of a tv.

I could tell youth is a good thing the first game De Aza played this year, and it wasn;t his home run - it was a catch someone made - either Piere or Quentin - and it was a good catch. Well De Aza runs over to him and gives him a high five and is acting excited. Whoever it was that made the catch had to do a double take with De Aza running to him - like "this is unexpected" - it just struck me as a great example of infusing some energy that was really lacking.

chisoxfanatic
08-29-2011, 10:24 PM
Let's pick up at least another game before we go to Detroit!

That was a fun one to have on.

kittle42
08-29-2011, 10:29 PM
Can we just count Lillibridge in Team Charlotte because he has been under-used the past two months?

As has been thoroughly discussed here, Ozzie's use of Lillibridge is one of the few things he has done consistently correctly.

DonnieDarko
08-29-2011, 10:30 PM
I agree about the interest rising - for the first time in a couple of months I am planning things around White Sox games again - as opposed to just turning them on when I happen to be in front of a tv.

I could tell youth is a good thing the first game De Aza played this year, and it wasn;t his home run - it was a catch someone made - either Piere or Quentin - and it was a good catch. Well De Aza runs over to him and gives him a high five and is acting excited. Whoever it was that made the catch had to do a double take with De Aza running to him - like "this is unexpected" - it just struck me as a great example of infusing some energy that was really lacking.

I saw this a few days ago in one of the games that Viciedo played: Rios actually made a good catch in CF to end the inning, and Viciedo came running up to him after the catch and...did something, I forget what exactly (I think that he gave him a bump on the shoulder). Rios' reaction was priceless. At first he was kind of confused, said something, then paused, turned back to Viciedo and seemed to say the same thing (looked like he said "Yeah"), just louder this time, and with a smile on his face.

Yes, it's definitely good to see.

Harry Chappas
08-29-2011, 10:31 PM
Count me among those who are enjoying watching the young guys play. I don't think we'll catch Detroit but it's fun to see nonetheless.

Question on De Aza: Has he ever been considered anything more than a 4A talent? Is this just a 'lightning in a bottle' thing or does he have the ability to be an everyday player? I don't know much about him but he sure looks comfortable at the plate and seems to be pretty athletic. I should preface this by saying that I always fall for the platoon players that catch fire.

If this isn't a complete aberration, then with Addison Reed waiting in the wings, we may have some pretty decent young players in the future although I'm not even sure if De Aza qualifies as "young."

chisoxfanatic
08-29-2011, 10:37 PM
After starting 0-6 against these guys, we are now 5-7 against them! Let's keep kicking the Twins down while they're down.

hawkjt
08-29-2011, 11:02 PM
MB was classic Buehrle tonite....crafty as hell,and a battler...he is my alltime favorite Sox starter....159 wins,and 27 wins vs the Twins? Wow!

Loved the hustle play by the whole team,but Alexei and DeAza were great! Stealing third by DeAza was a stolen run,and Alexei going from first to home on a sac fly and infield single was priceless!

It is starting to feel like fall at the park,when the ball does not jump out of the park,and speed,with good baserunning ,along with pitching and defense are huge.

Tomorrow is a huge game. Zack Stewart on the mound,vs Anthony Szwarzath(sp). Stewart pitched ok vs the Angels but gave it up late. I like this kid,because he throws strikes and has good mound presence. The Twins are not hitting great right now,and he did beat them for his only win...if the Sox can get this game,with Jake vs Diamond on Weds....this could get really interesting going into Detroit with good pitching matchups (Danks vs Verlander,Floyd vs Penny, Buehrle vs Scherzer). Sox need to win the next two games to put some heat on the Tigers.
Leyland is bringing up Turner to pitch Thursday to push Verlander back to face the Sox...if Turner loses, Verlander has to win to make Leyland look smart. Please give us a pennant race,Sox!

salty99
08-29-2011, 11:11 PM
Did anybody else catch the post game show where they said a fan and Rios got into an altercation and Rios had to be restrained? I was at the game but didn't see this. What happened?

Lip Man 1
08-29-2011, 11:43 PM
Swarzak looked like Bruce Chen at U.S. Cellular earlier this year, maybe the Sox can get him tomorrow.

Lip

guillensdisciple
08-29-2011, 11:48 PM
Not saying anything bad about the Sox, but man should we have traded Quentin and gotten some return for him.

PeteWard
08-30-2011, 12:01 AM
We just might have a pennant race after all. :D: Great base-running by Alexei :o: makes me feel some sort of positive change is in the wind.

KC really looks like they will warm to the spoiler role so the Sox can't look past them with all these Det and Cle games on the slate. They can still hit.

ViPeRx007
08-30-2011, 12:06 AM
Did anybody else catch the post game show where they said a fan and Rios got into an altercation and Rios had to be restrained? I was at the game but didn't see this. What happened?

I was at the Detroit series back at the end of July and he got into it with a fan during the first game of that series too. Not sure what angle he's coming from but if you look at the stats to money-paid ratio it's understandable that the fans are frustrated with him.

PeteWard
08-30-2011, 12:20 AM
I was at the Detroit series back at the end of July and he got into it with a fan during the first game of that series too. Not sure what angle he's coming from but if you look at the stats to money-paid ratio it's understandable that the fans are frustrated with him.

Look at this to understand why he should be benched for good: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_08_29_minmlb_chamlb_1&mode=wrap#!/video

MUsoxfan
08-30-2011, 12:23 AM
Every time I think I'm done really caring about them this year, they seem to drag me back in.

johnnyg83
08-30-2011, 12:26 AM
Every time I think I'm done really caring about them this year, they seem to drag me back in.

every ****ing time

BainesHOF
08-30-2011, 12:39 AM
Gee, Guillen put De Aza back into the lineup. What a genius!

Laughed at Guillen's "poor me" act when he said that the reason Viciedo wasn't brought up earlier was that he couldn't have a 26-man roster. Who does he think he's fooling with such nonsense?

Guillen and Walker need to be launched ASAP before they drag down the kids.

PeteWard
08-30-2011, 12:54 AM
Every time I think I'm done really caring about them this year, they seem to drag me back in.

I think I prefer that to them being 10+ out now---even if they fail in the end. I want a pennant race! :bandance:


Besides, as a Bears & Hoosiers fan :(: I am not ready for the torture that will be the 2011 football season. Go Sox!

pudge
08-30-2011, 12:59 AM
Of course, like the last two wins in Seattle, it began with the starting pitching, against a team this weekend that gave Verlander all he could handle (and a non-quality start, although it was his 20th win).


You gotta get off this - yes, starting pitching is a strength, but the lineups we've been shutting down are god awful, and no it's not just the stats that say so, it's what you can clearly see... yes, I've seen a whole lot of Seattle cause I live there and that lineup sucks horribly, especially at home, no matter if they got hot for a series on the road.

Having said all that, heck, it's more fun to be 5 out than 10 out right now. If they can somehow come out of the DET series out only 4 games (three in the loss column), that would not be too shabby.

TDog
08-30-2011, 01:30 AM
You gotta get off this - yes, starting pitching is a strength, but the lineups we've been shutting down are god awful, and no it's not just the stats that say so, it's what you can clearly see... yes, I've seen a whole lot of Seattle cause I live there and that lineup sucks horribly, especially at home, no matter if they got hot for a series on the road.

Having said all that, heck, it's more fun to be 5 out than 10 out right now. If they can somehow come out of the DET series out only 4 games (three in the loss column), that would not be too shabby.

Get off what? You should be impressed with the starting pitching. Before playing the White Sox, the Twins hit Verlander well this weekend, and the Mariners were hitting against the Indians before they hosted the White Sox. In fact, the Mariners scored as many runs in eight innings at home tonight as they did against the White Sox in 27 innings this weekend.

Tonight's White Sox win was the second straight home game in which the White Sox shut out the visiting team on four hits. And in the home game before that, the White Sox held the Rangers to two runs.

White Sox pitching now has a 24-inning scoreless streak at home. I see no reason not to be impressed with the pitching on the road against the Mariners that came between the the last two home shutouts.

hawkjt
08-30-2011, 01:49 AM
I do not get this denigrating the opposition that the Sox beat mentality.
This is professional baseball where the worst teams win 40% of the time,and the best team wins less than 60% of the time,so any win,is a good win. The Sox play 27 of their last 30 against the Tigers(who they have beaten 4 of the last 6 times they played),Cleveland,Twins and Royals. If the Sox beat them,will it be quality wins? Who fricking cares?

There are no good or bad wins from here on out...only wins.
Seattle was beating the Angels tonite last I looked,will it not count as a full loss for the Angels? Sure it will. KC will probably kick the crap outta of the Tigers,Tribe and Sox coming in,as they can hit the ball and have no pressure...so a win vs the Royals will be precious,no matter their record.

The last month it is about who chokes the least,usually. This is a hard game,and when pressure is added, it gets even harder.

October26
08-30-2011, 06:44 AM
The kids sure can hit & play. And Buehrle can still pitch. Buehrle has a .039 ERA against the Twins this year - love it!

I thought Ozzie did a great job of putting on the hit&run play several times during last night's game. It seemed like every inning DeAza, Viciedo, and of course Ramirez were running all over the place. So Twinesque and so much fun to see the Sox beat the Twins. Kudos to Flowers for getting the clutch hits. It was also great to see Burls tip his cap (as he always does to the fans when they give him a standing ovation). I love that. Crain & Santos did their jobs.

I wonder if Ramirez is as happy as I am to see Viciedo in the Sox lineup? The Cubans can play!

Keep on winning, White Sox! :bandance:

soxgirl617
08-30-2011, 08:18 AM
I was at the game last night, and I think it was the most enjoyable game I've attended this season. (And I go to a fair number of games.) The crowd was into it, and the Sox looked good. I love Mark Buehrle!

I'm a little surprised, however, at the "hate" for AJ on this thread. Tyler Flowers has played 18 games in the majors this year, and is batting .273. AJ has played 105 games and is batting .296. How quickly you forget!

Flowers may be the catcher of the future, but I'm not convinced yet. In his first attempt at the majors, he played 10 games and hit .188. In his second attempt, he played 8 games and hit .091. He's young, and I don't fault him for his stats in the majors the past two years. But to make the jump from "Flowers is playing well" to "get rid of AJ or play him once a week" is illogical.

Just my opinion, of course.

SI1020
08-30-2011, 08:34 AM
I was at the game last night, and I think it was the most enjoyable game I've attended this season. (And I go to a fair number of games.) The crowd was into it, and the Sox looked good. I love Mark Buehrle!

I'm a little surprised, however, at the "hate" for AJ on this thread. Tyler Flowers has played 18 games in the majors this year, and is batting .273. AJ has played 105 games and is batting .296. How quickly you forget!

Flowers may be the catcher of the future, but I'm not convinced yet. In his first attempt at the majors, he played 10 games and hit .188. In his second attempt, he played 8 games and hit .091. He's young, and I don't fault him for his stats in the majors the past two years. But to make the jump from "Flowers is playing well" to "get rid of AJ or play him once a week" is illogical.

Just my opinion, of course. I think after many Sox fans having assumed for so long that the Sox have a lousy farm system and can't develop anyone, it's nice to see Flowers, along with De Aza and Viciedo flash some talent and energy. I don't think anybody hates AJ. I sure don't but I'm damn happy that Flowers is showing he has a fighting chance to be a real Major League catcher.

doublem23
08-30-2011, 08:37 AM
I was at the game last night, and I think it was the most enjoyable game I've attended this season. (And I go to a fair number of games.) The crowd was into it, and the Sox looked good. I love Mark Buehrle!

I'm a little surprised, however, at the "hate" for AJ on this thread. Tyler Flowers has played 18 games in the majors this year, and is batting .273. AJ has played 105 games and is batting .296. How quickly you forget!

Flowers may be the catcher of the future, but I'm not convinced yet. In his first attempt at the majors, he played 10 games and hit .188. In his second attempt, he played 8 games and hit .091. He's young, and I don't fault him for his stats in the majors the past two years. But to make the jump from "Flowers is playing well" to "get rid of AJ or play him once a week" is illogical.

Just my opinion, of course.

Well first and foremost, batting average is a borderline useless stat, especially compared to the much better on-base percentage, which Tyler is kicking A.J.'s ass to the tune of .375-.338. And then when you throw in slugging percentage (Flowers .473 to A.J.'s .412). Granted it's just the catcher, an area you don't always expect to get a lot of offense from, so it's not like AJ was having a bad year, but that .292 BA looks really hollow compared to everything Flowers has done. When you look at OPS+, which compares the rate of offensive production against the league average for the year, AJ's been a pretty league average hitter, with an OPS of .750 and an OPS+ of 103 (100 is league average). Flowers' OPS is .848 which would be the 2nd best on the team if he had enough at bats to qualify (not counting Buehrle and Viciedo who have a combined 10 plate appearances). That translates to an OPS+ of 129 meaning he's putting up about 30% more production than your average, everyday player.

Now, there are some reasons to be worried about Tyler, his BABIP is a ridiculously high .394 (although, AJ's is over .300, as well, which is inflated) and he does strike out an awful lot (31.3% of the time) so you are right in saying that Flowers is almost certainly not quite this good, but the plus side is that he hits a lot of line drives (23% LD rate, well above the league average) and he really does a good job of keeping the ball off the ground (0.5 GO/AO rate, best on the team) which is good when you're a slower guy with a lot of pop.

I don't necessarily know if Flowers has usurped AJ as the starting catcher for next season, we'll have to see how much of this hot streak is real or fluke as the weeks go on, but I do believe Flowers is the hot hand right now, and as long as he is hitting like this he should continue to get the majority of the time behind the plate.

Also, the pitchers have just been gushing about working with him and he has shown a commitment to better himself defensively. Both he and Dayan have been very exciting additions to the roster. I've got nothing but love for AJ, but Flowers has just, so far, been much, much better.

TheOldRoman
08-30-2011, 09:17 AM
Question on De Aza: Has he ever been considered anything more than a 4A talent? Is this just a 'lightning in a bottle' thing or does he have the ability to be an everyday player? I don't know much about him but he sure looks comfortable at the plate and seems to be pretty athletic. I should preface this by saying that I always fall for the platoon players that catch fire.

If this isn't a complete aberration, then with Addison Reed waiting in the wings, we may have some pretty decent young players in the future although I'm not even sure if De Aza qualifies as "young."Yes. The Marlins (who are good at scouting and developing players) had him pegged as their CF of the future. He was given the job one year and got injured. When he came back from injury, the guy who took over his job has played too well to be benched, and the Marlins' outfield was crowded with young talent, so he was sent back to the minors. He was a victim of circumstance there. Now, that isn't to say he is going to be close to a superstar, but I still think he could be a solid MLB contributer and an everyday CF.

TheOldRoman
08-30-2011, 09:25 AM
Not saying anything bad about the Sox, but man should we have traded Quentin and gotten some return for him.Things went south when the Astros ended up trading Pence to the Phillies (for nothing of any consequence, either). Also, the Braves had extensive talks with the Sox before deciding to get a CF instead. But holding on to Carlos was the right move. He still has a year on his contract. They can move him in the offseason (when 29 teams could be in on him) for more than at the deadline when only two teams are in on discussions. He has a good deal of value, and it didn't make sense to move him just to move him. The same thing with Thornton (who is also likely to be traded in the offeason) - they weren't being traded unless the Sox got the big pieces they wanted.

hawkjt
08-30-2011, 09:35 AM
My hopes for Tyler Flowers are that his performance is a true reflection of his talents,and next year he ends up starting at least 60+ games,if not more, in a partnership with AJ...much more than Ramon this year.

Interestingly, this morning in his weekly interview with M & H on the Score,Jesse Crain was asked about Tylers catching performance to date,and Jesse was very complimentary and commented that he has liked how Tyler is calling his curveball much more than AJ and said that sometimes with the same battery over time, they might fall into patterns that become predictable. Basically, AJ calls for the same pitches in the same situations from the same pitchers...and might become too predictable.

Jesse made it clear that the pitcher has the final call on pitches,but in reality,Sox pitchers do not wave off many calls,so the catcher is really in command out there. I always thought that the dugout called pitches,but no, it is on the catcher,and Jesse was complimentary of Tylers pride in doing that well. Said MB only waved him off on one pitch all nite.

This makes me wonder if Tyler should stay behind the plate until he cools off at the plate, even when AJ comes back. Mix and match,probably. Lets see how AJ is hitting after sitting out. Flowers throws better,no doubt.

TheOldRoman
08-30-2011, 09:43 AM
My hopes for Tyler Flowers are that his performance is a true reflection of his talents,and next year he ends up starting at least 60+ games,if not more, in a partnership with AJ...much more than Ramon this year.

Interestingly, this morning in his weekly interview with M & H on the Score,Jesse Crain was asked about Tylers catching performance to date,and Jesse was very complimentary and commented that he has liked how Tyler is calling his curveball much more than AJ and said that sometimes with the same battery over time, they might fall into patterns that become predictable. Basically, AJ calls for the same pitches in the same situations from the same pitchers...and might become too predictable.

Jesse made it clear that the pitcher has the final call on pitches,but in reality,Sox pitchers do not wave off many calls,so the catcher is really in command out there. I always thought that the dugout called pitches,but no, it is on the catcher,and Jesse was complimentary of Tylers pride in doing that well. Said MB only waved him off on one pitch all nite.

This makes me wonder if Tyler should stay behind the plate until he cools off at the plate, even when AJ comes back. Mix and match,probably. Lets see how AJ is hitting after sitting out. Flowers throws better,no doubt.We have to be REALLY cautious about Flowers given the tiny sample size. I like Flowers, but Josh Fields looked like he was going to be a big time power hitter after his performance in 2007. Let's wait to annoint him.

It is a tough situation next year because AJ is still under contract. He is going to play at least some of the time, and we have DH, so Flowers couldn't play there, either. Tyler needs consistent ABs, moreso than he would get catching 80 games (and it would likely be less than that), but he is going to be 26 next year and shouldn't be sent back to the minors. It's a tough call.

kufram
08-30-2011, 12:41 PM
I was at the game last night, and I think it was the most enjoyable game I've attended this season. (And I go to a fair number of games.) The crowd was into it, and the Sox looked good. I love Mark Buehrle!

I'm a little surprised, however, at the "hate" for AJ on this thread. Tyler Flowers has played 18 games in the majors this year, and is batting .273. AJ has played 105 games and is batting .296. How quickly you forget!

Flowers may be the catcher of the future, but I'm not convinced yet. In his first attempt at the majors, he played 10 games and hit .188. In his second attempt, he played 8 games and hit .091. He's young, and I don't fault him for his stats in the majors the past two years. But to make the jump from "Flowers is playing well" to "get rid of AJ or play him once a week" is illogical.

Just my opinion, of course.

I think it is a good opinion. I see this as a win/win situation. You don't have to choose between AJ and Flowers. You need a catcher and a backup catcher and now we may have this young guy that can play as well as AJ who has been there and still doing it. It's a little like Alexei having Omar around last year. Flowers has a year to learn the intangibles from a real pro without the pressure of having to be the starting catcher necessarily. I like Castro but I think his spot is taken.

wassagstdu
08-30-2011, 04:55 PM
This Viciedo and Flowers kids, where have we been keeping them all year?

How much credit for the relative preparedness of the call-ups goes to (Charlotte manager) Joe McEwing? I saw him managing Winston-Salem and coaching third base right in front of our seats here in Wilmington a couple of years ago. He was teaching constantly, taking someone aside after every inning and giving them pointers.