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thomas35forever
08-24-2011, 12:56 AM
Not the way to stay in a pennant race.:angry:

Boondock Saint
08-24-2011, 12:57 AM
Gotta love it when your baseball team can't play baseball.

billyvsox
08-24-2011, 12:59 AM
Chalk up another loss to bone head managing by our 'skipper". Leaving in Frasor??

Add Dunn to the list too, and Rios again, and Ozzie for playing them.

It never ever ever ever ever end with this guy. Ozzie is totally indefensible at this point/

BleacherBandit
08-24-2011, 12:59 AM
This season has been going nowhere since the beginning.


Leaving Frasor in after we could have used Thornton for the pertinent left-handed match-up. Starting Adam Dunn. Going nowhere.

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2011, 12:59 AM
Evidently Ozzie fell asleep. Either way we gift wrapped this for the Angels. The unearned run in the first and then Rios' gaffes on two flyballs led to us losing.

kevingrt
08-24-2011, 12:59 AM
I know the fielding sucked but I want to talk about something else...

Why is Jason Frasor still int he game in the bottom of the 9th? He clearly did not have his stuff. And you are facing guys in the 9th that are worse when flipped around and batting from the right side of the plate. I do not understand at all why Thornton did not come in or Sale? I mean I know we had an off day on Monday and another on Thursday so hell these relievers could get really tired. But really. So now there is a good chance Sale is off Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And he is only the best pitcher on our team right now? And we needed those outs in the 9th. But no lets have a reliever struggling out there left for death.

This goes on Ozzie and probably Coop. I do not understand that bullpen management at all. And they have been pretty good all season with bullpen management. But not tonight.

all*star quentin
08-24-2011, 01:00 AM
Not the way to stay in a pennant race.:angry:

It was the rally monkey.

BigKlu59
08-24-2011, 01:00 AM
Its that damn cattle prod I tell ya...

BK59

BleacherBandit
08-24-2011, 01:00 AM
9DMKlZeuIDo

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2011, 01:00 AM
Chalk up another loss to bone head managing by our 'skipper". Leaving in Frasor??

Add Dunn to the list too, and Rios again, and Ozzie for playing them.

It never ever ever ever ever end with this guy. Ozzie is totally indefensible at this point/

I can't defend Ozzie anymore but Kenny has to get some blame two. We have two useless guys taking up roster spots because of Kenny.

PalehosePlanet
08-24-2011, 01:00 AM
Bad defense and bad pitching early and late, and just not enough offense.

6.5 back now with 35 games left and getting that sinking feeling.

DirtySox
08-24-2011, 01:01 AM
Frasor sure was left out there to die wasn't he?

GoGoCrede
08-24-2011, 01:02 AM
Well, ****.

DickAllen72
08-24-2011, 01:02 AM
Chalk up another loss to bone head managing by our 'skipper". Leaving in Frasor??

Add Dunn to the list too, and Rios again, and Ozzie for playing them.

It never ever ever ever ever end with this guy. Ozzie is totally indefensible at this point/
Bad managing, mental errors, physical errors and poor hitting. Hopefully Ozzie and his staff are gone after this season.

1989
08-24-2011, 01:02 AM
How we didn't bring in Thornton or Sale after Aybar reached, I have no ****ing clue. Hell, Frasor should've been pulled as soon as he got Wells out.

GlassSox
08-24-2011, 01:02 AM
I know the fielding sucked but I want to talk about something else...

Why is Jason Frasor still int he game in the bottom of the 9th? He clearly did not have his stuff. And you are facing guys in the 9th that are worse when flipped around and batting from the right side of the plate. I do not understand at all why Thornton did not come in or Sale? I mean I know we had an off day on Monday and another on Thursday so hell these relievers could get really tired. But really. So now there is a good chance Sale is off Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. And he is only the best pitcher on our team right now? And we needed those outs in the 9th. But no lets have a reliever struggling out there left for death.

This goes on Ozzie and probably Coop. I do not understand that bullpen management at all. And they have been pretty good all season with bullpen management. But not tonight.

Spot on, exactly how I feel.

amsteel
08-24-2011, 01:03 AM
I said last night 1-run games tend to be good indicators of a manager's ability, tonight was a perfect demonstration of that. Frasor had no business being out there for the last 3-4 batters.

Adam Dunn accounted for ~18% of Sox outs today.

With the way they played defensively and mentally tonight, they had no business being in this game.

Also, I think we can all agree the Sox are not in a pennant race, they are barely in a division race.

kevingrt
08-24-2011, 01:04 AM
I said last night 1-run games tend to be good indicators of a manager's ability, tonight was a perfect demonstration of that. Frasor had no business being out there for the last 3-4 batters.

Adam Dunn accounted for ~18% of Sox outs today.

With the way they played defensively and mentally tonight, they had no business being in this game.

Also, I think we can all agree the Sox are not in a pennant race, they are barely in a division race.

We are 20-17 in one-run games and that clearly does not reflect Ozzie's managing abilities this year.

HaroMaster87
08-24-2011, 01:05 AM
That just about outta do it...

Nail, meet coffin!!

Alex Rios makes me wanna vomit...I fast forward past everyone of his at bats...and Dunn too. Why is Rios even playing? Dont you have to play your best line up every day at this point? It's nut cutting time. Lilly should be in right and De Awesome in center...with Rios glued to the bench.

I just dont understand the reasoning...

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2011, 01:05 AM
Frasor sure was left out there to die wasn't he?

I haven't seen all of Frasor's outtings with the Sox but the few I have seen he doesn't seem very impressive.

arKnaD7
08-24-2011, 01:05 AM
That game is a microcosm of the season. Bad, good, bad, good, bad. Frasor shouldn't have gone back out for the 9th, didn't have his good stuff. No excuse to not use your best relief pitchers in that situation.

If this team is "All-In", even if it is to late, Dunn shouldn't play the rest of the season. Lilli plays better defense, can run, and isn't an auto-K when hitting.

Congrats to PK on 2k.

kevingrt
08-24-2011, 01:07 AM
That just about outta do it...

Nail, meet coffin!!

Alex Rios makes me wanna vomit...I fast forward past everyone of his at bats...and Dunn too. Why is Rios even playing? Dont you have to play your best line up every day at this point? It's nut cutting time. Lilly should be in right and De Awesome in center...with Rios glued to the bench.

I just dont understand the reasoning...

Rios was absolutely horrendous in the field today and has been for quite sometime now. But he hit the ball well today and has hit the ball pretty decently ever since De Aza got called up.

Now Rios still sucks and probably should be sitting on the bench everyday given his complete lack of effort. But lets not rip on his hitting right at this moment.

DirtySox
08-24-2011, 01:08 AM
I haven't seen all of Frasor's outtings with the Sox but the few I have seen he doesn't seem very impressive.

He pitched much better in Toronto. Him being a Type B free agent is all I'm concerned about really.

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2011, 01:09 AM
That just about outta do it...

Nail, meet coffin!!

Alex Rios makes me wanna vomit...I fast forward past everyone of his at bats...and Dunn too. Why is Rios even playing? Dont you have to play your best line up every day at this point? It's nut cutting time. Lilly should be in right and De Awesome in center...with Rios glued to the bench.

I just dont understand the reasoning...

Right now because Quentin is hurt I think Rios sadly has to play however I would rather seem in right with De Aza in center. There is a reason Rios only played 98 games out of over 800 in center with Toronto.

hawkjt
08-24-2011, 01:14 AM
Ozzie seemed to just give up,by leaving Frasor in....Frasor has had a bad history when he comes back out for a second inning.

I cannot imagine that they really felt like Frasor was the guy to have out there to get out of that inning. He had nothing in the 9th and was lucky to get out of the 8th.

DeAza and PK came up big in the 8th,only to give it right back up in the 9th. This one stings,as Santana was actually get-able,compared to his last 6 starts. Now, they get Weaver tomorrow.
Dunn has his chance for this road trip. Sit him,Ozzie. Go with Lilly.

billyvsox
08-24-2011, 01:14 AM
Rios was absolutely horrendous in the field today and has been for quite sometime now. But he hit the ball well today and has hit the ball pretty decently ever since De Aza got called up.

Now Rios still sucks and probably should be sitting on the bench everyday given his complete lack of effort. But lets not rip on his hitting right at this moment.

Its total stubborness that Rios still plays. He is NOT a Cf, never has been and never will. But KW and OZ think he is. Watch baseball around the league and you will easily see he is by far the worst defensive CF in the game.

As for his hitting...yeah, he has had some hot streaks, but if the pitch is not inside and up he has no chance. He has one hotting zone (up and in) and then he hits it left for a single or double or occasional HR. Pitch him away and he pops up or gets "out and around it" and grounds out. His approach is pathetic. De Aza should be in CF every day vs rightys and leftys cause he is the only true CF we have and he has a gameplan and a clue at the plate.

GlassSox
08-24-2011, 01:15 AM
Ozzie

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7131&stc=1&d=1314162691

hawkjt
08-24-2011, 01:18 AM
Its total stubborness that Rios still plays. He is NOT a Cf, never has been and never will. But KW and OZ think he is. Watch baseball around the league and you will easily see he is by far the worst defensive CF in the game.

As for his hitting...yeah, he has had some hot streaks, but if the pitch is not inside and up he has no chance. He has one hotting zone (up and in) and then he hits it left for a single or double or occasional HR. Pitch him away and he pops up or gets "out and around it" and grounds out. His approach is pathetic. De Aza should be in CF every day vs rightys and leftys cause he is the only true CF we have and he has a gameplan and a clue at the plate.


Last year Rios played a ligihts out centerfield. Fans on here,including me,were extolling the virtues of finally having a lockdown centerfielder with great range and good arm,who could hit for average and power.

This year, it is like the devil came back for his payment for last year. He has declined in every single category, bigtime. It is inexplicable.
But, until Carlos comes back, Ozzie has no choice.

chisoxfanatic
08-24-2011, 01:19 AM
Methinks Ozzie already has tee time scheduled for South Beach on September 27th already. 5 weeks from tomorrow will be the last time the White Sox will play this year.

Lip Man 1
08-24-2011, 01:19 AM
Physical mistakes, mental blunders. Seen it time and time again.

Maybe they can still have a winning season but that's about the best you can hope for right now.

I've stopped trying to figure out why Ozzie does or does not do something anymore, I need to keep whatever sanity I have left.

Fanatic:

Actually I hope Ozzie has a press conference scheduled for the 27th with the Marlins naming him their new manager.

Lip

Soxman219
08-24-2011, 01:21 AM
Dunn needs to sit yesterday! He has done nothing but become an automatic out. If the Sox still believe they are in a division race, Dunn needs to sit out!

GlassSox
08-24-2011, 01:21 AM
Methinks Ozzie already has tee time scheduled for South Beach on September 27th. 5 weeks from tomorrow will be the last time the White Sox will play this year.

We can only hope. Maybe the long sleeve sweat shirt in LA is his way of acclimating himself for the climate change.

JB98
08-24-2011, 01:25 AM
Frasor sure was left out there to die wasn't he?

Indeed. I go back to the at-bat in the eighth inning where he had Trumbo 0-2 and failed to put him away. He ended up almost getting his head taken off after challenging with a 3-2 heater.

Someone in the dugout should have identified that Frasor's offspeed pitches were not working, and that he was struggling to put batters away as a result. Frasor was fortunate to escape the eighth unscathed.

Alas, he was inexplicably sent back out for the ninth, and he was not removed from the game even after giving up two more solid base hits. We should not be surprised that he allowed a third solid base hit to end the game.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same game as Ozzie Guillen. He had *both* Thornton and Santos warming during the top of the ninth. Why warm up two guys if you have no intention of bringing either one in? It just baffles me. I don't get it.

GlassSox
08-24-2011, 01:27 AM
Indeed. I go back to the at-bat in the eighth inning where he had Trumbo 0-2 and failed to put him away. He ended up almost getting his head taken off after challenging with a 3-2 heater.

Someone in the dugout should have identified that Frasor's offspeed pitches were not working, and that he was struggling to put batters away as a result. Frasor was fortunate to escape the eighth unscathed.

Alas, he was inexplicably sent back out for the ninth, and he was not removed from the game even after giving up two more solid base hits. We should not be surprised that he allowed a third solid base hit to end the game.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same game as Ozzie Guillen. He had *both* Thornton and Santos warming during the top of the ninth. Why warm up two guys if you have no intention of bringing either one in? It just baffles me. I don't get it.

Very well stated!

Aesero
08-24-2011, 01:27 AM
How many times this year do we have to watch someone score from first on a single?

Lip Man 1
08-24-2011, 01:27 AM
JB:

Easy now...some folks might accuse you again of "picking" on poor Ozzie and Walker!

LOL

Lip

kittle42
08-24-2011, 01:31 AM
Bad managing, mental errors, physical errors and poor hitting. Hopefully Ozzie and his staff are gone after this season.

/thread

DirtySox
08-24-2011, 01:33 AM
So when do the Ozzie Guillen for Logan Morrison trade rumors resume?

kittle42
08-24-2011, 01:34 AM
Indeed. I go back to the at-bat in the eighth inning where he had Trumbo 0-2 and failed to put him away. He ended up almost getting his head taken off after challenging with a 3-2 heater.

Someone in the dugout should have identified that Frasor's offspeed pitches were not working, and that he was struggling to put batters away as a result. Frasor was fortunate to escape the eighth unscathed.

Alas, he was inexplicably sent back out for the ninth, and he was not removed from the game even after giving up two more solid base hits. We should not be surprised that he allowed a third solid base hit to end the game.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same game as Ozzie Guillen. He had *both* Thornton and Santos warming during the top of the ninth. Why warm up two guys if you have no intention of bringing either one in? It just baffles me. I don't get it.

It will all be worth it if Ozzie and co. are gone in 5 weeks.

Nellie_Fox
08-24-2011, 01:35 AM
It will all be worth it if Ozzie and co. are gone in 5 weeks.Once again, someone would rather lose than have Ozzie back.

thomas35forever
08-24-2011, 01:37 AM
Once again, someone would rather lose than have Ozzie back.
The life of a know-it-all fan who wants bad things to happen just to prove a point.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 01:38 AM
Once again, someone would rather lose than have Ozzie back.

Never said that. I'm just looking at the bright side of a worst-case scenario. In another thread, I have stated I thought Ozzie should be gone even if this team somehow snuck into an 83-win playoff appearance.

Falstaff
08-24-2011, 01:39 AM
I can't defend Ozzie anymore but Kenny has to get some blame two. We have two useless guys taking up roster spots because of Kenny.
Yes. A few weeks back, I declared that the fate of White Sox getting to the playoffs would rest on Edwin Jackson shoulders. He was really pumping up his game then (like '05 Contreras) and team could have rode in on his success.
But no, Kenny ditched EJ and got us Frasor, we see the lights going out on this season. White Sox have become first rate AAAA level team.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 01:39 AM
The life of a know-it-all fan who wants bad things to happen just to prove a point.

The life of someone who would rather jump down the throat of someone with whom he disagrees than learn reading comprehension. You know where the ignore button is.

Crooked Number
08-24-2011, 01:39 AM
Special shout out for our brilliant manager to keep trotting out Dunn. Just another 0-4 with a game changing, rally killing double play in there for good measure this time. Thanks season killer, don't worry you still have a chance for a good September, when it's meaningless.

Giving at bats to players who are red hot, i.e. contributing, is not "the way" with this manager. Dunn starting tonight is an absolute slap in the face to Lillibridge. It's do or die time, and Dunn is still in. Just brilliant.

De Aza continues to pound the ball, Pierre is on fire, PK with his 2000th hit. All good things. Mark hung in there as best as he could, like he always does. Should have gotten him the W tonight. Frasor is exactly as advertised, middle of the pack reliever who is extremely inconsistent. Terrible decision to leave him out there.

Low-lites tonight in no particular order:

Letting a man on first score on a single, I dont care if it's Deon Sanders out there that is unnaceptable.

Flowers making the third out at third base. Come on rook, enjoy your trial in kangaroo court.

Rios with a high school-esque catch and throw "trying" to cut down a baserunner at home.

Alexei with another absent minded lolly gag throw to first for the E (He is used to Paulie, who is one of the best so he may have forgotten that season killer was over there). What year is this in MLB for you now, that should not be happening.

Ozzie Guillen with horrific bullpen management / deciding to play Dunn / having Rios hit cleanup. Slide Paulie to 4, TCM to 3, Rios 5. Whatever "if i dont like it **** me stop being a fan yadda yadda ". You know what Ozzie, your time has come to end here. Take your services to South Beach...

Nellie_Fox
08-24-2011, 01:40 AM
Never said that. I'm just looking at the bright side of a worst-case scenario. In another thread, I have stated I thought Ozzie should be gone even if this team somehow snuck into an 83-win playoff appearance.No, you said it would all be worth if to get rid of Ozzie, meaning you're okay with losing if it gets rid of Ozzie. There's no other way to spin that statement.

And I know you said he should be fired even if they still make the playoffs this year. I'm well aware that you are locked into your position.

thomas35forever
08-24-2011, 01:40 AM
Yes. A few weeks back, I declared that the fate of White Sox getting to the playoffs would rest on Edwin Jackson shoulders. He was really pumping up his game then (like '05 Contreras) and team could have rode in on his success.
But no, Kenny ditched EJ and got us Frasor, we see the lights going out on this season. White Sox have become first rate AAAA level team.
7_KIzbktgJk

kittle42
08-24-2011, 01:40 AM
Yes. A few weeks back, I declared that the fate of White Sox getting to the playoffs would rest on Edwin Jackson shoulders. He was really pumping up his game then (like '05 Contreras) and team could have rode in on his success.
But no, Kenny ditched EJ and got us Frasor, we see the lights going out on this season. White Sox have become first rate AAAA level team.

The departure of Edwin Jackson was far from the death knell of this team. Come on. Christ. I know everyone is mad, as am I, but let's not be ridiculous.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 01:45 AM
It will all be worth it if Ozzie and co. are gone in 5 weeks.

No, you said it would all be worth if to get rid of Ozzie, meaning you're okay with losing if it gets rid of Ozzie. There's no other way to spin that statement.

And I know you said he should be fired even if they still make the playoffs this year. I'm well aware that you are locked into your position.

"Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same game as Ozzie Guillen. He had *both* Thornton and Santos warming during the top of the ninth. Why warm up two guys if you have no intention of bringing either one in? It just baffles me. I don't get it."

"It will all be worth it if Ozzie and co. are gone in 5 weeks."

I should have shortened what I was responding to or been more clear. I was saying the frustration JB and all of us are showing is at least worth it (since this team is going nowhere in 2011) if management takes a hike when the season is over. It would give me and a lot of us some instant hope for 2012. At least something new.

If that means to you that I have to root for the team to lose or something, which is ludicrous, then have it your way. I don't give a ****.

Nellie_Fox
08-24-2011, 01:48 AM
"Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same game as Ozzie Guillen. He had *both* Thornton and Santos warming during the top of the ninth. Why warm up two guys if you have no intention of bringing either one in? It just baffles me. I don't get it."

"It will all be worth it if Ozzie and co. are gone in 5 weeks."

I should have shortened what I was responding to or been more clear. I was saying the frustration JB and all of us are showing is at least worth it (since this team is going nowhere in 2011) if management takes a hike when the season is over. It would give me and a lot of us some instant hope for 2012. At least something new.

If that means to you that I have to root for the team to lose or something, which is ludicrous, then have it your way. I don't give a ****.Okay, then answer straight up. If you actually had a choice between the Sox winning this division this year and Ozzie staying as a result, or the Sox losing the division and Ozzie being gone, what's your call?

captain54
08-24-2011, 02:08 AM
Oh Lord, why can't it be September 24th instead of August 24th?

sox230
08-24-2011, 02:17 AM
Okay, then answer straight up. If you actually had a choice between the Sox winning this division this year and Ozzie staying as a result, or the Sox losing the division and Ozzie being gone, what's your call?

For me, it would honestly be like the Bears this past year and the Lovie/Angelo situation. I knew the Bears were a fluke, as did everybody when they made the playoffs, so when they did, I honestly thought to myself that if they didn't win the Super Bowl, I would have rather missed out, knowing how Angelo and Lovie would receive instant job security at season's end. Now we are stuck with both, and the future of the organization does not look bright.

Now to the Sox. If they made the playoffs, it would be World Series Championship or bust. Why? Because Kenny and Ozzie would receive lifetime job security from an owner that is much, much too loyal. Plus, I know the team would be a fluke this year. I would rather miss the playoffs this year and not have the next 10 years suffer.

Foulke You
08-24-2011, 02:30 AM
Special shout out for our brilliant manager to keep trotting out Dunn. Just another 0-4 with a game changing, rally killing double play in there for good measure this time. Thanks season killer, don't worry you still have a chance for a good September, when it's meaningless.

Giving at bats to players who are red hot, i.e. contributing, is not "the way" with this manager. Dunn starting tonight is an absolute slap in the face to Lillibridge. It's do or die time, and Dunn is still in. Just brilliant.
It is an absolute joke not to bench Dunn right now for Lillibridge. It's especially frustrating when you consider that Quentin is on the shelf opening up RF. Put De Aza in CF and DH Rios since he has been swinging ok lately. Everyone but Ozzie can see that Dunn isn't going to magically start swinging better this year. Any comeback for Dunn is going to happen next season. Is it Ozzie's lust for the lefty/righty matchups that keep Dunn in the lineup? Perhaps Ozzie has just mailed it in this season. What is going to happen when Viciedo arrives on September 1st? I'm thinking he will play only against the occasional lefty and that's it.

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2011, 03:26 AM
For me, it would honestly be like the Bears this past year and the Lovie/Angelo situation. I knew the Bears were a fluke, as did everybody when they made the playoffs, so when they did, I honestly thought to myself that if they didn't win the Super Bowl, I would have rather missed out, knowing how Angelo and Lovie would receive instant job security at season's end. Now we are stuck with both, and the future of the organization does not look bright.

Now to the Sox. If they made the playoffs, it would be World Series Championship or bust. Why? Because Kenny and Ozzie would receive lifetime job security from an owner that is much, much too loyal. Plus, I know the team would be a fluke this year. I would rather miss the playoffs this year and not have the next 10 years suffer.

I will take a fluke any year, if the Sox can make the playoffs (which they won't) they will have as good a chance as anyone of doing some damage especially with their pitching. I will take a chance on that fluke any day of the week, also with the exception of this year Ozzie has shown himself to be a decent manager.

central44
08-24-2011, 04:53 AM
I don't even know anymore. Yesterday they looked really good. Despite some boneheadedness today they scored 4 runs and had a chance to win it in the end...except Ozzie once again fails to recognize that his pitcher doesn't have it.

It seems like he's completely checked out. A good manager would field the best possible team--and that would involve Dunn sitting and Lillibridge playing.

But this one isn't all on Ozzie. I'm just tired of the same old stuff though, because I feel like we've lost several games at this point that we didn't have to if he just managed the bullpen adequetly.

Jerko
08-24-2011, 05:10 AM
I'm tired of the whole ozzie act. I want the sox to win, but him being gone will be a nice consolation prize. I can't even listen to him talk anymore; it's almost as bad as watching Dunn bat.

wassagstdu
08-24-2011, 07:26 AM
...except Ozzie once again fails to recognize that his pitcher doesn't have it.

Does anyone really think Ozzie is making those judgements? Let's reword that statement: "COOP once again fails to recognize that his pitcher doesn't have it." Does anyone believe that?

Horrendous performance by the core of this team, and guess who gets the blame, again. What a joke. Dunn fails? Ozzie. Rios fails? Ozzie. Ramirez fails? Ozzie. And on and on. Give me a break. Please.

LITTLE NELL
08-24-2011, 07:30 AM
Just might be time for a white flag trade of some kind.

October26
08-24-2011, 07:50 AM
Does anyone really think Ozzie is making those judgements? Let's reword that statement: "COOP once again fails to recognize that his pitcher doesn't have it." Does anyone believe that?

Horrendous performance by the core of this team, and guess who gets the blame, again. What a joke. Dunn fails? Ozzie. Rios fails? Ozzie. Ramirez fails? Ozzie. And on and on. Give me a break. Please.

+1. Thank you. These are my thoughts/feelings as well.

A. Cavatica
08-24-2011, 08:17 AM
Just might be time for a white flag trade of some kind.

Players need to clear waivers to be traded now. The time for this was at the end of July, but of course the team won a couple right before the deadline, and KW got cold feet.

I wonder if we could put Ozzie on waivers? Would anyone claim him?

tstrike2000
08-24-2011, 08:36 AM
Not the way to stay in a pennant race.:angry:

Even when this team was 2.5 games out or whatever it was, they were never in a pennant race. The hamster wheel is soon about to end.

russ99
08-24-2011, 10:11 AM
"Sometimes I wonder if I'm watching the same game as Ozzie Guillen. He had *both* Thornton and Santos warming during the top of the ninth. Why warm up two guys if you have no intention of bringing either one in? It just baffles me. I don't get it."

"It will all be worth it if Ozzie and co. are gone in 5 weeks."

I should have shortened what I was responding to or been more clear. I was saying the frustration JB and all of us are showing is at least worth it (since this team is going nowhere in 2011) if management takes a hike when the season is over. It would give me and a lot of us some instant hope for 2012. At least something new.

If that means to you that I have to root for the team to lose or something, which is ludicrous, then have it your way. I don't give a ****.

Please. Every manager has bullpen roles and uses different pitchers depending if the team is losing, the game is tied or they're ahead. The setup men and closers are used when we're ahead, like every other team. They were warmed up in case we got the lead.

There's a disconnect here on what managers do around the big leagues and what Ozzie is expected to do, like play the bullpen like it's the World Series, never bunt even when the game situation calls for it and bench their two mid-order bats the rest of the season. If Girardi, Gardenire, Leyland or Francona did these things, they'd be lambasted.

It comes down to some people want Ozzie gone no matter what, and come up with any reason to push the agenda.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 10:26 AM
Okay, then answer straight up. If you actually had a choice between the Sox winning this division this year and Ozzie staying as a result, or the Sox losing the division and Ozzie being gone, what's your call?

I would hope that the above would not represent the only two choices, as squeaking into the playoffs should not guarantee the manager of a completely underachieving team a spot the following season.

BUT if those were the two choices, I would always take getting to the playoffs, even with a 5% or less chance of winning it all (let's say) and keeping the management team over not making the playoffs and getting rid of them.

Should the Sox lose out and the management team remains intact, it will be the worst case scenario.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 10:30 AM
Please. Every manager has bullpen roles and uses different pitchers depending if the team is losing, the game is tied or they're ahead. The setup men and closers are used when we're ahead, like every other team. They were warmed up in case we got the lead.

There's a disconnect here on what managers do around the big leagues and what Ozzie is expected to do, like play the bullpen like it's the World Series, never bunt even when the game situation calls for it and bench their two mid-order bats the rest of the season. If Girardi, Gardenire, Leyland or Francona did these things, they'd be lambasted.

It comes down to some people want Ozzie gone no matter what, and come up with any reason to push the agenda.

That is complete and utter bull**** and I actually think you know it. I mean, I at least hope you do.

I refer you back to each of JB98's recent posts, which you conveniently simply fail to respond to in any direct nature, which I can only assume is a reason to ignore our "agenda."

Jerko
08-24-2011, 10:37 AM
Ozzie decides what pitchers to use, when to use them, how long to use them for, and who to use them against. Ozzie used Sale in a day game hours after he pitched 2 innings the previous night. Ozzie made Thornton the closer, weakening the final 2 spots in the bullpen. YaY he changed it after it cost a few games. Ozzie takes pitchers out that are steamrolling the opposition to "save them for September" when the games are ultimately meaningless. Ozzie puts Dunn in the lineup. Ozzie puts Dunn 4th in the lineup. Ozzie lets Dunn bat against a lefty for the 3rd out of an inning then puts Lillibridge at first immediately thereafter. Ozzie calls for bunts even though the pitcher is getting raked, and he calls for bunts from people who, for years, have shown they cannot bunt. Ozzie lost the DH at least twice this year with his silly moves. Ozzie puts Dunn in as a pinch hitter even though the opposing manager is just salivating because he has a lefty reliever ALREADY WARMED UP for such a move. Ozzie uses pinch runners while down multiple runs which leaves people like Vizquel the only pinch hitting option late in games. Ozzie continues to put Rios in center, even though his defense this year is worse than his bat, which is saying something. And that's only this year. Yeah he makes a good move every now and then, and I know Dunn has to play sometimes, but sadly, I think he, and the team, need a fresh start. I readily admit he doesn't have much to work with right now, but these problems go back to April and were NOT addressed until it was too late; if at all. I DO give him credit for sticking with Pierre, and he does do things right at times, but overall, nah. Seen enough.

kufram
08-24-2011, 10:45 AM
Once again the Sox lose a winnable game. Whenever a team loses it is somebody's fault, by definition. Someone has made a bad pitch, dropped a fly, failed on the bases, struck out with men on, etc. ad infinitum. You simply cannot lose a game unless you either let the other team score too many runs or don't score enough runs yourself. There is plenty of blame to go around if that's what you need. I just want to win the next game.

For weeks now we've been one hot streak from the division lead. We still are. The Tigers have not pulled away, nor have the Indians. We are running out of games, though. This team could look real good tonight, win 8 out of 10. We've seen that before too.

hawkjt
08-24-2011, 10:56 AM
It is an absolute joke not to bench Dunn right now for Lillibridge. It's especially frustrating when you consider that Quentin is on the shelf opening up RF. Put De Aza in CF and DH Rios since he has been swinging ok lately. Everyone but Ozzie can see that Dunn isn't going to magically start swinging better this year. Any comeback for Dunn is going to happen next season. Is it Ozzie's lust for the lefty/righty matchups that keep Dunn in the lineup? Perhaps Ozzie has just mailed it in this season. What is going to happen when Viciedo arrives on September 1st? I'm thinking he will play only against the occasional lefty and that's it.


Let me get this straight,you want:

DeAza in center
Rios at DH
Dunn on the bench
Lilly at first

So, that means you will sit Paulie,and have who in right field? Omar?

I would agree with DeAza in center,Rios in right,Lilly on 1st,and PK at DH,but not with your lineup.

TheOldRoman
08-24-2011, 10:57 AM
Yes. A few weeks back, I declared that the fate of White Sox getting to the playoffs would rest on Edwin Jackson shoulders. He was really pumping up his game then (like '05 Contreras) and team could have rode in on his success.
But no, Kenny ditched EJ and got us Frasor, we see the lights going out on this season. White Sox have become first rate AAAA level team.Seriously? This is one of the more ridiculous things I have read on this board. You are actually bragging about being right when anyone who takes 5 seconds to look at his numbers can see you are completely wrong? Did you not notice the 2-2 record, ERA of 4.5 and WHIP of 1.5 since the trade?

A. Cavatica
08-24-2011, 11:08 AM
2-2 record, ERA of 4.5 and WHIP of 1.5 since the trade

And those numbers are right around his career averages. There's nothing in his history to suggest that he's more than an overpaid fourth starter.

russ99
08-24-2011, 11:21 AM
That is complete and utter bull**** and I actually think you know it. I mean, I at least hope you do.

I refer you back to each of JB98's recent posts, which you conveniently simply fail to respond to in any direct nature, which I can only assume is a reason to ignore our "agenda."

Please. I answered every question. Maybe not to your liking, but too bad.

As in Rongey's tweet yesterday, I hope that some day Sox fans can be reasonable one day in the future, but they most certainly are not now. Anger, scapegoating and finger pointing is the order of the day BTW: Since when does any team promise their fans a title? If that's the condition of your support, find another team.

Go ahead and keep banging the drum that firing Ozzie will fix every problem.

Bucky F. Dent
08-24-2011, 11:34 AM
"Turn out the lights. The party's over."

Not much of a party this summer.

Rarely have I been willing to say this, but I will be happy to put this season in the rear view. Given the "on paper" talent of this team on offense, it has been absolutely infuriating watching them struggle the way that they have.

It's naive to think that every game should have looked like our performance on Sunday - but they should have occured a hell of alot more frequently than they did.

Here's hoping that Greg Walker receives his gold watch this fall.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 11:36 AM
Please. I answered every question. Maybe not to your liking, but too bad.

As in Rongey's tweet yesterday, I hope that some day Sox fans can be reasonable one day in the future, but they most certainly are not now. Anger, scapegoating and finger pointing is the order of the day BTW: Since when does any team promise their fans a title? If that's the condition of your support, find another team.

Go ahead and keep banging the drum that firing Ozzie will fix every problem.

Christ.

Jerko
08-24-2011, 11:42 AM
That's another aspect of the White Sox experience that needs upgrading.

Boondock Saint
08-24-2011, 12:13 PM
As in Rongey's tweet yesterday, I hope that some day Sox fans can be reasonable one day in the future, but they most certainly are not now.

New manager? Unreasonable! New hitting coach? Unreasonable! Someone who bats over the mendoza line hitting clean up? Unreasonable! Someone who gives a **** playing center field? Unreasonable! $125m payroll team with a winning record? Unreasonable!

Anger, scapegoating and finger pointing is the order of the day

I'm guessing you expected sunshine, lollipops and rainbows from everybody in this absolute dog**** season?

BTW: Since when does any team promise their fans a title? If that's the condition of your support, find another team.

Thanks for the advice, Oz. Nobody's demanding a title. But asking a team that's "all in" to win the ****tiest division in baseball, and hold an above .500 record for more than one day past May 1st doesn't seem like asking too much.

Go ahead and keep banging the drum that firing Ozzie will fix every problem.

Who said that, and when? Firing Ozzie will fix many problems, but not all of them.

tstrike2000
08-24-2011, 12:46 PM
Doesn't matter how overwhelming the evidence is to keep or fire a coach, if a team is not meeting expectations, the coach or manager is the first to go. To me, the evidence has been overwhelming, but that's just me. Yes, you have coaches fired when they have nothing to work with. The Sox are not one of those teams. You want to blame the GM for signing the underperforming players, fine. However, the Sox have been spinning their wheels this whole season. Accountability has to start with the dugout.

pmck003
08-24-2011, 01:14 PM
Please. I answered every question. Maybe not to your liking, but too bad.

As in Rongey's tweet yesterday, I hope that some day Sox fans can be reasonable one day in the future, but they most certainly are not now. Anger, scapegoating and finger pointing is the order of the day BTW: Since when does any team promise their fans a title? If that's the condition of your support, find another team.

Go ahead and keep banging the drum that firing Ozzie will fix every problem.

I agree with you on Ozzie managing - why so much more anger at Ozzie than Dunn? Dunn has cost this team 3-4 games IMO when he was brought into win a few extra.

LITTLE NELL
08-24-2011, 01:17 PM
Season ends 5 weeks fron today.
6.5 games out.
We need a miracle.

voodoochile
08-24-2011, 01:24 PM
The Kittens are getting hot. If the Sox don't turn it on soon, this is over and I don't mean a small run they need to go on a 10-2 run sometime soon if they want to make things at all interesting the last month of the season. I'm not saying that's likely, just that it's necessary.

russ99
08-24-2011, 01:32 PM
New manager? Unreasonable! New hitting coach? Unreasonable! Someone who bats over the mendoza line hitting clean up? Unreasonable! Someone who gives a **** playing center field? Unreasonable! $125m payroll team with a winning record? Unreasonable!

I'm guessing you expected sunshine, lollipops and rainbows from everybody in this absolute dog**** season?

Thanks for the advice, Oz. Nobody's demanding a title. But asking a team that's "all in" to win the ****tiest division in baseball, and hold an above .500 record for more than one day past May 1st doesn't seem like asking too much.

Who said that, and when? Firing Ozzie will fix many problems, but not all of them.

Believe me, I'm as disappointed with this season as the rest, I surely don't thing that we shouldn't be satisfied with a .500 season.

But there's no denying that the amount of vitriol from certain segments of the fanbase is at an all-time high, at least in the 35+ years I've been a Sox fan. It's at least even with and IMO more so than the White Flag trade and Jerry's involvement with the strike that may have cost us a division title.

If we want to expand it to the rest of the Chicago sports scene, I can't think of another team/season where people are so angry, maybe the Cubs fans after the Bartman incident.

voodoochile
08-24-2011, 01:34 PM
Believe me, I'm as disappointed with this season as the rest, I surely don't thing that we shouldn't be satisfied with a .500 season.

But there's no denying that the amount of vitriol from certain segments of the fanbase is at an all-time high, at least in the 35+ years I've been a Sox fan. It's at least even with and IMO more so than the White Flag trade and Jerry's involvement with the strike that may have cost us a division title.

If we want to expand it to the rest of the Chicago sports scene, I can't think of another team/season where people are so angry, maybe the Cubs fans after the Bartman incident.

:welcome:

JB98
08-24-2011, 01:41 PM
Please. Every manager has bullpen roles and uses different pitchers depending if the team is losing, the game is tied or they're ahead. The setup men and closers are used when we're ahead, like every other team. They were warmed up in case we got the lead.

There's a disconnect here on what managers do around the big leagues and what Ozzie is expected to do, like play the bullpen like it's the World Series, never bunt even when the game situation calls for it and bench their two mid-order bats the rest of the season. If Girardi, Gardenire, Leyland or Francona did these things, they'd be lambasted.

It comes down to some people want Ozzie gone no matter what, and come up with any reason to push the agenda.

I have no agenda. I think both Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen have done a lot of good things for this organization. A lot of good things.

Unfortunately, they are no longer on the same page and haven't been for three or four years. The results on the field are unacceptable. The dynamic has gone stale. It's time for a change in the dugout, and quite possibly in the front office too.

And, BTW, the Sox are now 6.5 games out of first place. There are only 35 games to go. So, yes, it is time to start managing the bullpen like this is the World Series. More desperation is needed. Guillen was content to let Frasor lose the game last night. If people want to throw Coop under the bus for last night, that's fine too.

Someone in the dugout should have noticed that Frasor was ineffective with both his curve and his change. He was lucky to get through the eighth and should have been removed before the ninth ever started.

I'm not speaking out of emotion here. I'm not emotional at all. People who know me personally will tell you that apathy has pretty much set in for me with regard to this White Sox team. But I'm still watching games and analyzing what I see. What I see is some real curious decision-making and a team not living up to the standards that were set by this regime.

This regime, not the fans, created the high expectations for this season. Rongey is criticizing fans for "pointing fingers," when in fact he and others in this organization are pointing their fingers at frustrated, disappointed fans who have seen enough poor play and poor management for one summer.

The whole thing just makes you shake your head with dismay. This could have been a special season. Instead, it's a train wreck. It's time for change.

Domeshot17
08-24-2011, 01:51 PM
I can't defend Ozzie anymore but Kenny has to get some blame two. We have two useless guys taking up roster spots because of Kenny.

I call bull **** on this. Kenny is not without blame, he has made some bad trades. But Dunn was a great signing and Rios looked tremendous last year. It is the managers job to get the most out of his players. Kenny's job is to build the best team possible on paper. He handed Ozzie a team capable of a playoff run.

Domeshot17
08-24-2011, 01:53 PM
Please. Every manager has bullpen roles and uses different pitchers depending if the team is losing, the game is tied or they're ahead. The setup men and closers are used when we're ahead, like every other team. They were warmed up in case we got the lead.

There's a disconnect here on what managers do around the big leagues and what Ozzie is expected to do, like play the bullpen like it's the World Series, never bunt even when the game situation calls for it and bench their two mid-order bats the rest of the season. If Girardi, Gardenire, Leyland or Francona did these things, they'd be lambasted.

It comes down to some people want Ozzie gone no matter what, and come up with any reason to push the agenda.

Yup, that is it. We aren't tired of losing. We aren't tired of under performing or having him and his family make the White Sox a laughing stock of a team. We just hate him for no reason and want him gone. That is all, nothing else to see here.

Ozzie is not in the class of the other managers you mentioned, no where close.

Foulke You
08-24-2011, 02:11 PM
Let me get this straight,you want:

DeAza in center
Rios at DH
Dunn on the bench
Lilly at first

So, that means you will sit Paulie,and have who in right field? Omar?

I would agree with DeAza in center,Rios in right,Lilly on 1st,and PK at DH,but not with your lineup.
I forgot about Paulie.:redface: However, the general point of my post is that there are plenty of options for Ozzie. It's not like he NEEDS to play Dunn because he has no other choice.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 02:20 PM
Believe me, I'm as disappointed with this season as the rest, I surely don't thing that we shouldn't be satisfied with a .500 season.

But there's no denying that the amount of vitriol from certain segments of the fanbase is at an all-time high, at least in the 35+ years I've been a Sox fan. It's at least even with and IMO more so than the White Flag trade and Jerry's involvement with the strike that may have cost us a division title.

If we want to expand it to the rest of the Chicago sports scene, I can't think of another team/season where people are so angry, maybe the Cubs fans after the Bartman incident.

Agreed.

:welcome:

Are you implying it's not justifiable to be this angry, because that's ridiculous.

TheOldRoman
08-24-2011, 02:26 PM
Season ends 5 weeks fron today.
6.5 games out.
We need a miracle.Not even close. First off, the Tigers aren't a very good team. Aside from that, one good series for the Sox and a bad series for the Tigers and the Sox are 3 back on Sunday night. OF course, the Sox could also theoretically be 10 games back on Sunday, too. Things change quickly in baseball. 6.5 back with 10 to play? That takes a miracle. 6.5 back with 35 games left and 6 against Detroit, a team who has collapsed and choked away the division in September multiple times in the last five years? Not a miracle. And I am not saying by any means that the Sox will for sure win the division, just that they aren't even close to "hanging by a thread" yet.

Nellie_Fox
08-24-2011, 02:27 PM
...Dunn was a great signinghttp://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FGwroanbS8w/SijyZq7W8GI/AAAAAAAABFs/hDwP802vM2c/s400/Jaw_Drop_x2.jpg

Are you implying it's not justifiable to be this angry, because that's ridiculous.It's ridiculous to be "angry" about it. Disappointed, sure. But angry? Come on. It's sports, it's entertainment. It's not life or death.

Tragg
08-24-2011, 02:29 PM
I call bull **** on this. Kenny is not without blame, he has made some bad trades. But Dunn was a great signing and Rios looked tremendous last year. It is the managers job to get the most out of his players. Kenny's job is to build the best team possible on paper. He handed Ozzie a team capable of a playoff run.

It does strain credulity, though, to blame Dunn and Rios on Guillen.

That said, I think Guillen has managed like a clown in way too many games this year (last night was unacceptable) and, sometimes, I suspect, he puts his ego and disagreements with Williams first.

Williams has taken too many risk on massive contracts with players on the downside of their career....he may have had bad luck that they were further on the downside than expected, but that's a high risk at those contract. He's also frittered away legitimate prospects on marginal talents.

Both should go.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 02:32 PM
It's ridiculous to be "angry" about it. Disappointed, sure. But angry? Come on. It's sports, it's entertainment. It's not life or death.

Perhaps angry was too strong of a word. The Sox' performance is not affecting the rest of my life. My fantasy teams, on the other hand...

TheOldRoman
08-24-2011, 02:35 PM
It does strain credulity, though, to blame Dunn and Rios on Guillen.

That said, I think Guillen has managed like a clown in way too many games this year (last night was unacceptable) and, sometimes, I suspect, he puts his ego and disagreements with Williams first.

Williams has taken too many risk on massive contracts with players on the downside of their career....he may have had bad luck that they were further on the downside than expected, but that's a high risk at those contract. He's also frittered away legitimate prospects on marginal talents.

Both should go.False. Dunn is the only one who would be close to being on the "downside" of his career, and at 31 he should still have a few years of his prime left. Rios and Peavy were both 28 when they were acquired, and no, having a broken ankle wasn't a sign that Peavy would tear his lat and supposedly never stay healthy again. He may have taken too many risks in general, but those guys weren't on the back nine of their careers.

voodoochile
08-24-2011, 02:38 PM
Agreed.



Are you implying it's not justifiable to be this angry, because that's ridiculous.

I don't get the whole angry over sports thing so yeah I agree, it's ridiculous to be angry over the Sox failing to make the playoffs this year or any year.

It's sports. It's entertainment. It's a distraction from the real world. If it pisses you off this much to be a fan then stop being a fan. Unless you enjoy being angry and righteous, then by all means, carry on...

Boondock Saint
08-24-2011, 02:41 PM
It does strain credulity, though, to blame Dunn and Rios on Guillen.

I don't blame their performance on Guillen, but I do blame him for his square peg-round hole philosophy in regards to them. Dunn is a #9 hitter at best this year, yet he's still got more at bats in any of the 3-4-5 spots in the order than all of the other spots combined (138 AB in the 3 hole, 80 at clean up, 73 in the 5 hole, and 69 combined in the 6,7 and 9 spots in the order). Rios has been garbage in CF, and has dogged it out there on a seemingly routine basis, but he never gets extended time on the bench. The most time he's spent on the bench this year was 2 games, on July 27 and 29, which was then followed up by 3 consecutive starts. De Aza has been routinely kicking his ass, performance-wise, and he's only now getting consistent time as a starter (in RF) due to Quentin's injury. That's on Ozzie.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 02:48 PM
It's sports. It's entertainment. It's a distraction from the real world. If it pisses you off this much to be a fan then stop being a fan. Unless you enjoy being angry and righteous, then by all means, carry on...

No one's jumping off a roof here. I'm not 12 anymore.

But I also (most years) don't watch games and just give a pleasant golf clap when they win and a "well, what a fine sporting display; best of luck in the next contest" when they lose.

We're all fans. We all have passion. We show it in different ways. Your way is no better or worse than mine, as long as neither of us are showing passion like Raiders fans do.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 02:49 PM
I don't blame their performance on Guillen, but I do blame him for his square peg-round hole philosophy in regards to them. Dunn is a #9 hitter at best this year, yet he's still got more at bats in any of the 3-4-5 spots in the order than all of the other spots combined (138 AB in the 3 hole, 80 at clean up, 73 in the 5 hole, and 69 combined in the 6,7 and 9 spots in the order). Rios has been garbage in CF, and has dogged it out there on a seemingly routine basis, but he never gets extended time on the bench. The most time he's spent on the bench this year was 2 games, on July 27 and 29, which was then followed up by 3 consecutive starts. De Aza has been routinely kicking his ass, performance-wise, and he's only now getting consistent time as a starter (in RF) due to Quentin's injury. That's on Ozzie.

No, no, no! You must either blame it ALL on Ozzie or ALL on Kenny or ALL on Walker or ALL on Dunn/Rios/players. There can be no in between because too many people cannot handle the fact that there are shades of gray and middle ground in any rational argument.

hawkjt
08-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Facts:

Most Sox fans were very excited by the Dunn signing last december.
Why wouldn't they be? The man was as steady as the sun coming up in the east(38-42 hrs the prior 7 years?).

The Peavy signing was also received well,if not with as much approval.

The Rios signing was pretty well received also,and after last year everyone was pretty excited by his play at the plate and on the field.

I thought Kenny had put together a winner,period.
Did not happen.

I lay it on the professionals who did not perform to expectations.
Ozzie has had some bad games also,but overall, it is on Dunn,Rios,Beckham,and Thornton,early on.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 02:51 PM
I lay it on the professionals who did not perform to expectations.
Ozzie has had some bad games also,but overall, it is on Dunn,Rios,Beckham,and Thornton,early on.

It sure is on all of them, no question.

asindc
08-24-2011, 02:53 PM
Facts:

Most Sox fans were very excited by the Dunn signing last december.
Why wouldn't they be? The man was as steady as the sun coming up in the east(38-42 hrs the prior 7 years?).

The Peavy signing was also received well,if not with as much approval.

The Rios signing was pretty well received also,and after last year everyone was pretty excited by his play at the plate and on the field.

I thought Kenny had put together a winner,period.
Did not happen.

I lay it on the professionals who did not perform to expectations.
Ozzie has had some bad games also,but overall, it is on Dunn,Rios,Beckham,and Thornton,early on.

This.

chisoxfanatic
08-24-2011, 03:07 PM
The Kittens are getting hot. If the Sox don't turn it on soon, this is over and I don't mean a small run they need to go on a 10-2 run sometime soon if they want to make things at all interesting the last month of the season. I'm not saying that's likely, just that it's necessary.
We pretty much have to sweep all 6 games against the Tigers or go at worst 5-1 against them as well. I hope we don't have to face Verlander in both series.

Jerko
08-24-2011, 03:11 PM
Nothing wrong with getting angry if the Sox play like ****. We all got happy when they won, right? Nobody said "quit being happy it's only a game". If I have no emotional interest in the game, THEN I better stop being a fan. I can watch a movie, go to a concert, or watch a game not involving the Sox if I just want entertainment. Yes, sports entertains me, but it's also a competition, and a business, and I DO care if the team I spend my time and money on underperforms or is mismanaged.

Jerko
08-24-2011, 03:12 PM
We pretty much have to sweep all 6 games against the Tigers or go at worst 5-1 against them as well. I hope we don't have to face Verlander in both series.

If the Sox are anywhere close, I have no doubt Detroit "Santanas" us with Verlander. Twins were famous for that and it worked every damn time it seemed.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 03:13 PM
Nothing wrong with getting angry if the Sox play like ****. We all got happy when they won, right? Nobody said "quit being happy it's only a game". If I have no emotional interest in the game, THEN I better stop being a fan.

Amen, man!

soxinem1
08-24-2011, 03:30 PM
Evidently Ozzie fell asleep. Either way we gift wrapped this for the Angels. The unearned run in the first and then Rios' gaffes on two flyballs led to us losing.

Slogan change:

'Your 2011 White Sox: We're sticking with what got us this far, no matter how much it doesn't work'.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 03:31 PM
Slogan change:

'Your 2011 White Sox: We're sticking with what got us this far, no matter how much it doesn't work'.

That is actually perfect.

LITTLE NELL
08-24-2011, 04:04 PM
Not even close. First off, the Tigers aren't a very good team. Aside from that, one good series for the Sox and a bad series for the Tigers and the Sox are 3 back on Sunday night. OF course, the Sox could also theoretically be 10 games back on Sunday, too. Things change quickly in baseball. 6.5 back with 10 to play? That takes a miracle. 6.5 back with 35 games left and 6 against Detroit, a team who has collapsed and choked away the division in September multiple times in the last five years? Not a miracle. And I am not saying by any means that the Sox will for sure win the division, just that they aren't even close to "hanging by a thread" yet.

I wish you were right but for some reason this team has never hit the stride we were all hoping for. Dunn and Rios along with Beckham have killed us all year. Are they suddenly going to come out of hibernation in September and lead us to the promised land, don't bet on it.

asindc
08-24-2011, 04:23 PM
I wish you were right but for some reason this team has never hit the stride we were all hoping for. Dunn and Rios along with Beckham have killed us all year. Are they suddenly going to come out of hibernation in September and lead us to the promised land, don't bet on it.

The Sox have a winning streaks of 5 games only once and 4 games only twice. I fear you might be right. I would feel better about our prospects if Dunn was benched for the rest of the season.

Chez
08-24-2011, 04:51 PM
Facts:

Most Sox fans were very excited by the Dunn signing last december.
Why wouldn't they be? The man was as steady as the sun coming up in the east(38-42 hrs the prior 7 years?).

The Peavy signing was also received well,if not with as much approval.

The Rios signing was pretty well received also,and after last year everyone was pretty excited by his play at the plate and on the field.

I thought Kenny had put together a winner,period.
Did not happen.

I lay it on the professionals who did not perform to expectations.
Ozzie has had some bad games also,but overall, it is on Dunn,Rios,Beckham,and Thornton,early on.

Agree.

Nellie_Fox
08-24-2011, 05:03 PM
Most Sox fans were very excited by the Dunn signing last december.
Why wouldn't they be? The man was as steady as the sun coming up in the east(38-42 hrs the prior 7 years?).And 160-200 strikeouts.

WhiteSox5187
08-24-2011, 05:13 PM
And 160-200 strikeouts.

And a reputation in baseball as being a guy who didn't work very hard (as in he didn't watch video or had much of an off season regime). Still, I was excited when he came over.

TheOldRoman
08-24-2011, 05:19 PM
I wish you were right but for some reason this team has never hit the stride we were all hoping for. Dunn and Rios along with Beckham have killed us all year. Are they suddenly going to come out of hibernation in September and lead us to the promised land, don't bet on it.What do you mean you wish I was right? You wish I was right that it didn't take a miracle? I didn't say that the Sox would win for certain, just that it wouldn't be anything close to a historic comeback if it did happen, especially considering Detroit's recent history of falling apart dramatically in September, including losing a 3 game lead with 5 left against Minnesota two years ago.

LITTLE NELL
08-24-2011, 05:24 PM
What do you mean you wish I was right? You wish I was right that it didn't take a miracle? I didn't say that the Sox would win for certain, just that it wouldn't be anything close to a historic comeback if it did happen, especially considering Detroit's recent history of falling apart dramatically in September, including losing a 3 game lead with 5 left against Minnesota two years ago.

I will rephrase it and say I hope I'm wrong and there is a minor miracle.
I'm not holding my breath as stated a few posts ago.

TheOldRoman
08-24-2011, 05:30 PM
I will rephrase it and say I hope I'm wrong and there is a minor miracle.
I'm not holding my breath as stated a few posts ago.And that's fine. My only point is that I don't think it would take even a minor miracle. In fact, if the Sox can go 4 above .500 from this point out (not setting the world on fire, and they are 11 over since May 6), I believe they will win the division due to a Detroit choke job. But it is also very likely that Detroit spirals down and the Sox keep doing the same thing, not gaining ground.

LITTLE NELL
08-24-2011, 05:37 PM
And that's fine. My only point is that I don't think it would take even a minor miracle. In fact, if the Sox can go 4 above .500 from this point out (not setting the world on fire, and they are 11 over since May 6), I believe they will win the division due to a Detroit choke job. But it is also very likely that Detroit spirals down and the Sox keep doing the same thing, not gaining ground.

I was hoping the Rays would take 3 out 4 from Detroit, now I'm hoping for a split.
The miracle part comes from Dunn and Rios not performing like they have in the past. Dunn especially, I don't know if there is any hope at all for him.

SI1020
08-26-2011, 06:34 PM
I don't understand why some feel the need to bash those of us who show passion. Mad? I'm mad as hell.


dib2-HBsF08

doublem23
08-26-2011, 10:08 PM
And that's fine. My only point is that I don't think it would take even a minor miracle. In fact, if the Sox can go 4 above .500 from this point out (not setting the world on fire, and they are 11 over since May 6), I believe they will win the division due to a Detroit choke job. But it is also very likely that Detroit spirals down and the Sox keep doing the same thing, not gaining ground.

It's going to take a miracle. Detroit is playing about as good as they have played all year and the Sox are stuck in their season-long .500-ish malaise. To make up 7 games with only low 30-something left, you're either asking for the Sox to rip off an unprecedented hot streak or for the Tigers to completely fall apart. That's also assuming we finally leap the Indians for the 1st time since the 1st week of the season.