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View Full Version : Gardenhire sounds off on players not paying attention to fundamentals


Nellie_Fox
08-23-2011, 12:12 AM
So, Ron Gardenhire, who is almost universally credited here with getting his players to play "the right way" is frustrated with his young players. Says that, no matter how many times they are told, no matter how many times they are shown, they can't seem to remember on their own, and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. So, I guess he's saying that it IS possible to emphasize, and teach, fundamentals and still not get through to players. Interesting.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_18729647?nclick_check=1

RKMeibalane
08-23-2011, 03:12 AM
So, Ron Gardenhire, who is almost universally credited here with getting his players to play "the right way" is frustrated with his young players. Says that, no matter how many times they are told, no matter how many times they are shown, they can't seem to remember on their own, and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. So, I guess he's saying that it IS possible to emphasize, and teach, fundamentals and still not get through to players. Interesting.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_18729647?nclick_check=1

That is interesting. I was under the impression that teaching did not occur at the Major League level.

The Immigrant
08-23-2011, 07:18 AM
This just made my day.

hi im skot
08-23-2011, 07:33 AM
ckfhhvoQjbI

DumpJerry
08-23-2011, 08:03 AM
.....kids these days.....they just don't respect their elders.......

asindc
08-23-2011, 08:22 AM
That is interesting. I was under the impression that teaching did not occur at the Major League level.

I was under the impression that a good teacher would always get through to his students.

TheOldRoman
08-23-2011, 08:37 AM
That is interesting. I was under the impression that teaching did not occur at the Major League level. Rongey'd

Rocky Soprano
08-23-2011, 09:33 AM
So, I guess he's saying that it IS possible to emphasize, and teach, fundamentals and still not get through to players. Interesting.


Preaching fundamentals and actually teaching are different.

asindc
08-23-2011, 10:06 AM
Preaching fundamentals and actually teaching are different.

Yes they are, but since we are not privy to the Twinkees' training sessions, don't we have to assume that their staff is actually teaching fundamentals, despite the results we are seeing this year?

Rocky Soprano
08-23-2011, 10:51 AM
Yes they are, but since we are not privy to the Twinkees' training sessions, don't we have to assume that their staff is actually teaching fundamentals, despite the results we are seeing this year?

My response is more to those making comments alluding to the Sox and their fundamentals.

But yes, I do agree with your comment.

Nellie_Fox
08-23-2011, 10:53 AM
My thought when reading that was about all of our posters who rail at Sox coaches for not teaching the fundamentals, using as evidence the failure to execute them. It appears that some players are stubborn, some don't pay attention, and some are just stupid. You can lead a horse to water...

asindc
08-23-2011, 10:55 AM
My response is more to those making comments alluding to the Sox and their fundamentals.

But yes, I do agree with your comment.

Yes, I know, just emphasizing the OP's point, which is that many have bashed the current coaching staff for "not teaching fundamentals," when it has been quite possible that the players just haven't taken to the lessons. As almost always, we are left to speculate.

Rocky Soprano
08-23-2011, 11:06 AM
My thought when reading that was about all of our posters who rail at Sox coaches for not teaching the fundamentals, using as evidence the failure to execute them. It appears that some players are stubborn, some don't pay attention, and some are just stupid. You can lead a horse to water...

The big difference, in my eyes, is that unlike the Sox the Twins are known for playing fundamental baseball. They execute time and time again.

So what you are saying is that the Sox are full of players who are stubborn, don't pay attention, and stupid?

asindc
08-23-2011, 11:14 AM
The big difference, in my eyes, is that unlike the Sox the Twins are known for playing fundamental baseball. They execute time and time again.

So what you are saying is that the Sox are full of players who are stubborn, don't pay attention, and stupid?

Like Delmon Young, Brendon Harris, Alexi Casilla, and Carlos Gomez? Those shining examples of fundamental baseball?

Rocky Soprano
08-23-2011, 11:29 AM
Like Delmon Young, Brendon Harris, Alexi Casilla, and Carlos Gomez? Those shining examples of fundamental baseball?

You can always cherry pick a few.
Now name some Sox players that can actually lay a bunt, move the guy over, etc. on a somewhat consistent basis...

asindc
08-23-2011, 11:38 AM
You can always cherry pick a few.
Now name some Sox players that can actually lay a bunt, move the guy over, etc. on a somewhat consistent basis...

Juan Pierre
Tad Iguchi
Carl Everett
Aaron Rowand
Paul Konerko
Willie Harris
Scott Podsednik
Jermaine Dye

By the way, the fact that "you can always cherry pick a few" is part of the point Nellie is making. You know, green grass and all...

soxfanatlanta
08-23-2011, 11:49 AM
Juan Pierre
Tad Iguchi
Carl Everett
Aaron Rowand
Paul Konerko
Willie Harris
Scott Podsednik
Jermaine Dye

By the way, the fact that "you can always cherry pick a few" is part of the point Nellie is making. You know, green grass and all...

Player - Drafted By

Tad Iguchi - Japan
Carl Everett - NYY
Aaron Rowand - CHW
Paul Konerko - LAD
Willie Harris - BAL
Scott Podsednik - TEX
Jermaine Dye - ATL

I wouldn't even say Rowand is fundamentally sound; he was not a very smart base runner, and other than an occasional face-plant, he was an average outfielder.

asindc
08-23-2011, 11:57 AM
Player - Drafted By

Tad Iguchi - Japan
Carl Everett - NYY
Aaron Rowand - CHW
Paul Konerko - LAD
Willie Harris - BAL
Scott Podsednik - TEX
Jermaine Dye - ATL

I wouldn't even say Rowand is fundamentally sound; he was not a very smart base runner, and other than an occasional face-plant, he was an average outfielder.

How many of last year's Minny team was drafted by Minny? How many of this year's Twinkees?

Rocky Soprano
08-23-2011, 12:56 PM
How many of last year's Minny team was drafted by Minny? How many of this year's Twinkees?

Minny still teaches fundamentals in the big leagues while others feel that you shouldn't have to teach once you make it to the bigs.

Only a few Twinkees are unable to execute while only a VERY few on the Sox can. I for one don't think that means that the team is full of stupid players. Either they aren't teaching it or don't know how to teach it.

delben91
08-23-2011, 01:01 PM
Minny still teaches fundamentals in the big leagues while others feel that you shouldn't have to teach once you make it to the bigs.

Only a few Twinkees are unable to execute while only a VERY few on the Sox can. I for one don't think that means that the team is full of stupid players. Either they aren't teaching it or don't know how to teach it.

Maybe I'm totally missing your point, but in the article Gardenhire specifically speaks to the idea that the players should know the fundamentals from their time in the minors and they shouldn't be taught in the big leagues.

Regarding an OF relay throw drill:
We're doing all this stuff so we don't have to tell them. We shouldn't have to. They should learn this in the minor leagues.

asindc
08-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Player - Drafted By

Tad Iguchi - Japan
Carl Everett - NYY
Aaron Rowand - CHW
Paul Konerko - LAD
Willie Harris - BAL
Scott Podsednik - TEX
Jermaine Dye - ATL

I wouldn't even say Rowand is fundamentally sound; he was not a very smart base runner, and other than an occasional face-plant, he was an average outfielder.

Minny still teaches fundamentals in the big leagues while others feel that you shouldn't have to teach once you make it to the bigs.

Only a few Twinkees are unable to execute while only a VERY few on the Sox can. I for one don't think that means that the team is full of stupid players. Either they aren't teaching it or don't know how to teach it.

Maybe I'm totally missing your point, but in the article Gardenhire specifically speaks to the idea that the players should know the fundamentals from their time in the minors and they shouldn't be taught in the big leagues.

Regarding an OF relay throw drill:

Since most of the full-time Sox players of the KW/Ozzie era were drafted by other teams and fundamental-guru Gardenhire says players should already know fundamentals by the time they get to the majors,...

Rocky Soprano
08-23-2011, 02:40 PM
Maybe I'm totally missing your point, but in the article Gardenhire specifically speaks to the idea that the players should know the fundamentals from their time in the minors and they shouldn't be taught in the big leagues.

Regarding an OF relay throw drill:

I agree completely that fundamentals should be taught in the minors.
I felt that Gardenhire was saying that they continue to emphasize fundamentals in the majors. To me I take that as they continue to teach, I may be wrong.

Nellie_Fox
08-23-2011, 03:35 PM
I agree completely that fundamentals should be taught in the minors.
I felt that Gardenhire was saying that they continue to emphasize fundamentals in the majors. To me I take that as they continue to teach, I may be wrong.Yes, but his point was that they shouldn't have to, and even though they do, the players still don't get it.

TommyJohn
08-23-2011, 06:46 PM
So, Ron Gardenhire, who is almost universally credited here with getting his players to play "the right way" is frustrated with his young players. Says that, no matter how many times they are told, no matter how many times they are shown, they can't seem to remember on their own, and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. So, I guess he's saying that it IS possible to emphasize, and teach, fundamentals and still not get through to players. Interesting.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_18729647?nclick_check=1

I'm sure he gave them a fundamentally sound ass chewing.

Taliesinrk
08-23-2011, 08:05 PM
Juan Pierre is not a good sacrifice bunter. He is good at bunting for hits.

Frater Perdurabo
08-23-2011, 08:43 PM
It is possible for many things to be true at the same time. I think all of these statements are true:

1. The Twins generally emphasize producing fundamentally sound position players, and generally do not promote them until they are really good at playing their position and executing the fundamentals in the field, with the bat and on the base paths.

2. Because the Sox generally have traded away position player prospects, they have focused more on getting them to produce good hitting numbers to increase their trade value. (This may be changing somewhat, with the Sox developing and promoting Beckham and Morel from within.)

3. Let's be sure to differentiate between "teaching" and "practicing." We all agree that players should not have to be taught fundamentals in the big leagues. But some of us think that when a player is making fundamental baseball mistakes, that coaches should lead drills to make those players practice the fundamentals until they again become automatic.

4. According to Jim Thome, the Twins spend more time practicing fundamentals than the Sox do, and perform a wider variety of fundamentals drills than the Sox do.

5. Ron Gardenhire may be frustrated that his current roster may not be as fundamentally sound as his rosters have been in previous seasons, and that he is having to spend more time teaching in addition to the practice drills he normally has his team perform.

Does anyone disagree with any of these statements?

Brian26
08-23-2011, 09:20 PM
So, Ron Gardenhire, who is almost universally credited here with getting his players to play "the right way" is frustrated with his young players. Says that, no matter how many times they are told, no matter how many times they are shown, they can't seem to remember on their own, and keep making the same mistakes over and over again. So, I guess he's saying that it IS possible to emphasize, and teach, fundamentals and still not get through to players. Interesting.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_18729647?nclick_check=1

I've been saying this for awhile, but it starts younger than the major leagues, young than the minor leagues, and younger than college or high school. Kids aren't learning the very basics in Little League. Coaches have no idea now how to teach young kids, and the bad habits just persist through high school and on. I could write a thesis on what I've seen at some local games.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2011, 10:25 PM
I've been saying this for awhile, but it starts younger than the major leagues, young than the minor leagues, and younger than college or high school. Kids aren't learning the very basics in Little League. Coaches have no idea now how to teach young kids, and the bad habits just persist through high school and on. I could write a thesis on what I've seen at some local games.
I can see that after watching some of these LLWS games. Isn't one of the most basic fundamentals for pitchers focusing on which base to throw to when the pitcher fields the ball? Shouldn't that be something taught at a very young age? I've seen plenty of incidents where the pitcher threw to the wrong base. That's just one of the several examples I've seen while watching some of these games.

JB98
08-23-2011, 10:45 PM
It is possible for many things to be true at the same time. I think all of these statements are true:

1. The Twins generally emphasize producing fundamentally sound position players, and generally do not promote them until they are really good at playing their position and executing the fundamentals in the field, with the bat and on the base paths.

2. Because the Sox generally have traded away position player prospects, they have focused more on getting them to produce good hitting numbers to increase their trade value. (This may be changing somewhat, with the Sox developing and promoting Beckham and Morel from within.)

3. Let's be sure to differentiate between "teaching" and "practicing." We all agree that players should not have to be taught fundamentals in the big leagues. But some of us think that when a player is making fundamental baseball mistakes, that coaches should lead drills to make those players practice the fundamentals until they again become automatic.

4. According to Jim Thome, the Twins spend more time practicing fundamentals than the Sox do, and perform a wider variety of fundamentals drills than the Sox do.

5. Ron Gardenhire may be frustrated that his current roster may not be as fundamentally sound as his rosters have been in previous seasons, and that he is having to spend more time teaching in addition to the practice drills he normally has his team perform.

Does anyone disagree with any of these statements?

This year, they've had to call up guys before they were ready because of injuries. Might be a reason their fundamentals suck this year.

1989
08-23-2011, 11:31 PM
Play the game the right way!

HaroMaster87
08-24-2011, 12:41 PM
My thought when reading that was about all of our posters who rail at Sox coaches for not teaching the fundamentals, using as evidence the failure to execute them. It appears that some players are stubborn, some don't pay attention, and some are just stupid. You can lead a horse to water...

These are and have been my thoughts to the "FIRE GREG WALKER" people (i.e. Frater). If you want to, fine. But it will make no difference...

TheOldRoman
08-24-2011, 01:14 PM
These are and have been my thoughts to the "FIRE GREG WALKER" people (i.e. Frater). If you want to, fine. But it will make no difference...It will make no difference even though Walker has actively tweaked guys' swings MULTIPLE times resulting in worse performance? It will make no difference even though numerous hitters, most notably Jose Bautista of late, have improved their performance by changing their batting approach. I know, how could that be? I thought nobody listened to hitting coaches.

HaroMaster87
08-24-2011, 02:52 PM
It will make no difference even though Walker has actively tweaked guys' swings MULTIPLE times resulting in worse performance? It will make no difference even though numerous hitters, most notably Jose Bautista of late, have improved their performance by changing their batting approach. I know, how could that be? I thought nobody listened to hitting coaches.

I think that guy is getting more help other then a swing change...

And its already been talked about on the radio how they tried to correct what bacon is doing and it works in bp but he goes back to his bad habits once the game starts...as well as Rios.

Thats just low baseball IQ, not bad coaching. Last night game is a perfect example of this. How many mental errors were there??? Too many for me to count...