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View Full Version : Do we thank Buddy Bell, Greg Walker or both of them?


DumpJerry
08-21-2011, 11:27 PM
De Aza, Morel (since the ASB), Flowers, Lillibridge, all were in Charlotte not too long ago (either last season or recent callups) are hitting the ball rather well.

I say it's the combo of Bell and Walkers' efforts.

doublem23
08-21-2011, 11:30 PM
They should be thanked so hard that they get promoted to do jobs that have nothing to do with what they are doing today.

captain54
08-21-2011, 11:35 PM
De Aza, Morel (since the ASB), Flowers, Lillibridge, all were in Charlotte not too long ago (either last season or recent callups) are hitting the ball rather well.

I say it's the combo of Bell and Walkers' efforts.

I think it's all Walker...and he should be rewarded by retaining his position for as long as he is alive

oh..wait... he's already got that... never mind

Boondock Saint
08-21-2011, 11:39 PM
They should be thanked so hard that they get promoted to do jobs that have nothing to do with what they are doing today.

Post of the week.

Tragg
08-21-2011, 11:42 PM
De Aza, Morel (since the ASB), Flowers, Lillibridge, all were in Charlotte not too long ago (either last season or recent callups) are hitting the ball rather well.

I say it's the combo of Bell and Walkers' efforts.
Who was coaching De Aza and Flowers in Charlotte? Thank him.

doublem23
08-21-2011, 11:42 PM
Post of the week.

The Sox need a few more team ambassadors to Interior Siberia.

Dibbs
08-22-2011, 12:15 AM
Definitely all Walker. Anyone who knows anything about baseball would realize this.

TDog
08-22-2011, 12:36 AM
Or maybe the White Sox minor league system isn't as bad as many seem to believe.

kittle42
08-22-2011, 12:41 AM
Or maybe the White Sox minor league system isn't as bad as many seem to believe.

It is.

chisoxfanatic
08-22-2011, 12:44 AM
Or maybe the White Sox minor league system isn't as bad as many seem to believe.
It's not great, but we still have some Flowers amongst all of the weeds.

doublem23
08-22-2011, 12:49 AM
It's not great, but we still have some Flowers amongst all of the weeds.

http://www.the-games-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/I-see-what-you-did-there-Fry-300x225.jpg

DonnieDarko
08-22-2011, 12:55 AM
Aren't most of our guys who are performing first round picks? I think that some credit should be given to Buddy Bell for at least doing that: turning first round picks into possible major leaguers. At the very least, the White Sox have gotten some kind of spark from Charlotte, and that's something that should be commended.

Greg Walker? I wouldn't be surprised if he's working hand-in-hand with these call ups and with Buddy Bell. We'll see how the rest of this all plays out, but I really hope that the Sox at least get to the playoffs this season. That would be a major relief.

Still want to win it all, though. :cool:

Hitmen77
08-22-2011, 08:00 AM
Let's wait and see if DeAza and Flowers can hit well for more than a few weeks before we say how great a job Walker is doing. I remember the first week of the season when the Sox were clobbering the ball and people here were spouting off the "fire Walker" posts. That didn't last long.

I think it's all Walker...and he should be rewarded by retaining his position for as long as he is alive

oh..wait... he's already got that... never mind

:nod:

Hitmen77
08-22-2011, 08:08 AM
Or maybe the White Sox minor league system isn't as bad as many seem to believe.

Flowers and Lillibridge both came over from Atlanta in the Vazquez trade. They aren't exactly Sox farm system products.

DeAza was picked up off of waivers from the Marlins before the start of the 2010 season.

Though I have been critical of KW's moves lately, these transactions fit his past strengths of finding talent off the scrap heap and trading for other teams' talent (like he did with Danks, Floyd, Quentin).

As far as Morel goes. I hope he can keep it up. The 2008 draft looks to have been a good one for the Sox with Beckham (if he can ever get his act together), Hudson, and Morel. But the Sox still have work to do to shore up their farm system.

doublem23
08-22-2011, 08:36 AM
Flowers and Lillibridge both came over from Atlanta in the Vazquez trade. They aren't exactly Sox farm system products.

DeAza was picked up off of waivers from the Marlins before the start of the 2010 season.

De Aza certainly is not a product of our farm system, but Lillibridge and Flowers have made some pretty significant changes to their games since coming to the Sox, so even though they have had more service time with the Braves, I think its fair to credit the White Sox for helping develop them into the players that are currently having success in the Majors. Flowers maybe not as much, he was a decently respected prospect around the time the Sox acquired him, but Lillibridge went from a guy who 2 years ago in Richmond (Braves AAA) hit .220/.294/.344 to the guy today who can play all over the field and has looked really good at the plate at times this year. Really good. That new swing he has is short, compact, and very powerful. I think Lillibridge can be claimed as a Sox reclamation project and the fact that they're getting any quality MLB time out of him is a big plus considering that a few years ago, he looked like classic minor league filler material/blockbuster trade throw-in.

Though I have been critical of KW's moves lately, these transactions fit his past strengths of finding talent off the scrap heap and trading for other teams' talent (like he did with Danks, Floyd, Quentin).

As far as Morel goes. I hope he can keep it up. The 2008 draft looks to have been a good one for the Sox with Beckham (if he can ever get his act together), Hudson, and Morel. But the Sox still have work to do to shore up their farm system.

Absolutely, even as he has struck out with some of his bigger acquisitions, KW has still had a knack for finding these diamonds in the rough. De Aza, Humber, Lillibridge, Santos, and now maybe Stewart are just the latest batch of KW under the radar moves that have really panned out for the Sox. Really this has been KW's MO since he took over, whenever he swings for the fences, he almost always comes up empty (who can forget the failed David Wells and Todd Ritchie trades, or the repeated trades for Roberto Alomar?). IIRC, the only two times I'd say KW has gone for broke and it has not come back to bite him was the Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon deals. But really, since 2003 with the Esteban Loaiza signing, KW's had a really really good run of finding guys either on waivers, in free agency, or via trade that needed a fresh start and have found success here. Which is going to be key, IMO, and one of the few reasons I don't want KW fired right now because the Sox are going to have to be very savvy with their money the next few years because we are painted into a bad corner. There are some good GMs out there who have done a lot with a little, but I don't think there have been many better at constantly findings these overlooked gems like KW has. His problem is that when he brings out the big guns, he usually misses, and sometimes, pretty badly.

Noneck
08-22-2011, 08:49 AM
De Aza and Flowers havent even been up for a month yet, way too early to know how they will be. Morel has played as was expected , except with less power. Lillibridge has been a pleasant surprise.

JB98
08-22-2011, 12:12 PM
The Sox have one of the worst offenses in the league. I'm not going to start praising the hitting coach after one game where 10 runs were scored. The outburst yesterday is the outlier, not the other way around.

kittle42
08-22-2011, 01:17 PM
The Sox have one of the worst offenses in the league. I'm not going to start praising the hitting coach after one game where 10 runs were scored. The outburst yesterday is the outlier, not the other way around.

I was hoping the original intent of the thread was teal.

jdm2662
08-22-2011, 02:05 PM
The Sox have one of the worst offenses in the league. I'm not going to start praising the hitting coach after one game where 10 runs were scored. The outburst yesterday is the outlier, not the other way around.

Yep. It's baseball. Every team has a game like this once every so often. I would like to thank the Sox for playing their most complete game on a day I attend, though.

ghostface36
08-22-2011, 03:14 PM
neither
you fire walker as soon as you can

Nellie_Fox
08-22-2011, 03:46 PM
neither
you fire walker as soon as you canShould the teacher assigned the responsibility to teach you how to capitalize and punctuate be fired too? Obviously, he/she failed to communicate it to you.

kittle42
08-22-2011, 03:50 PM
Should the teacher assigned the responsibility to teach you how to capitalize and punctuate be fired too? Obviously, he/she failed to communicate it to you.

Regardless, Greg Walker should be fired.

doublem23
08-22-2011, 04:06 PM
Should the teacher assigned the responsibility to teach you how to capitalize and punctuate be fired too? Obviously, he/she failed to communicate it to you.

It's not his job to punctuate and capitalize on baseball message boards

PalehosePlanet
08-22-2011, 04:11 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Walker's tinkering with Flowers swing last May (2010) that basically caused Tyler to lose his prospect status? IIRC, he hit .100 for the month, and went back to what he was doing pre-Walker's tutorials in order to bounce back.

The odd thing was, Flowers had a great April. Enter Walker, to cure Tyler of his strikeouts, and the kid had, by far, the worst month of his professional career.

kittle42
08-22-2011, 04:34 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it Walker's tinkering with Flowers swing last May (2010) that basically caused Tyler to lose his prospect status? IIRC, he hit .100 for the month, and went back to what he was doing pre-Walker's tutorials in order to bounce back.

The odd thing was, Flowers had a great April. Enter Walker, to cure Tyler of his strikeouts, and the kid had, by far, the worst month of his professional career.

You may very well be right, but there's more than enough evidence to get rid of him without having to guess at what he might have done in one month to a questionable prospect.

Daver
08-22-2011, 05:45 PM
De Aza and Flowers havent even been up for a month yet, way too early to know how they will be. Morel has played as was expected , except with less power. Lillibridge has been a pleasant surprise.

He never had much in the way of power.

JB98
08-22-2011, 05:50 PM
Yep. It's baseball. Every team has a game like this once every so often. I would like to thank the Sox for playing their most complete game on a day I attend, though.

Agreed. First time I've seen the Sox win in person in over two months. I was very happy with the 10-0 win, but that's not nearly enough to change my view of the big picture.

Daver
08-22-2011, 05:53 PM
It's not his job to punctuate and capitalize on baseball message boards

What does that have to do with the teacher?

amsteel
08-22-2011, 05:55 PM
The Sox have one of the worst offenses in the league. I'm not going to start praising the hitting coach after one game where 10 runs were scored. The outburst yesterday is the outlier, not the other way around.

If by worst you mean no worse than 10th in Average, HRs, runs scored, OBS, and Ks.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2011.shtml

Frustrating? yes. Worst in league? no. Below average? sure.

russ99
08-22-2011, 06:10 PM
These guys are all bench players, except for Morel, who the Sox are being patient with for the long term.

Nice to see them contribute, especially with the spate of injuries lately, but as we saw earlier this year with Lillibridge, they tend to revert to averages with extended playing time, and more importantly when the info gets out around the league as to how to pitch to them.

The Sox will sink or swim with our regulars, and with a month plus left in the season they've done neither. Which kinda sucks, but at least we still have a shot.

JB98
08-22-2011, 06:37 PM
If by worst you mean no worse than 10th in Average, HRs, runs scored, OBS, and Ks.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL/2011.shtml

Frustrating? yes. Worst in league? no. Below average? sure.

In other words, they have one of the worst offenses in the league, just like I said.

DumpJerry
08-22-2011, 07:22 PM
The Sox have one of the worst offenses in the league. I'm not going to start praising the hitting coach after one game where 10 runs were scored. The outburst yesterday is the outlier, not the other way around.

I was hoping the original intent of the thread was teal.
This thread was not started solely because of a 10-0 win. It was started based on the performances all season of the guys who have not been automatic outs and have been able to get on base. Basically, our line up has three automatic outs (Dunn, Rios and, to a degree, Beckham). Everyonehas pretty much performed as expected. The fact that the Sox are .500 and not in the same place as the Cubs is strong evidence that Ozzie and company have done a good job of holding this ship together despite the liabilities. There is no need for teal here.

Tragg
08-22-2011, 07:44 PM
Let's see how Morel, D'Aza and Flowers improve as they work more and more with this staff. Their play really isn't a result of this staff..that will show in the next year or so. (and Morel was a better minor league hitter).

DumpJerry
08-22-2011, 07:49 PM
Let's see how Morel, D'Aza and Flowers improve as they work more and more with this staff. Their play really isn't a result of this staff..that will show in the next year or so. (and Morel was a better minor league hitter).
What is the basis for this assertion?

A. Cavatica
08-22-2011, 08:24 PM
Basically, our line up has three automatic outs (Dunn, Rios and, to a degree, Beckham). Everyonehas pretty much performed as expected. The fact that the Sox are .500 and not in the same place as the Cubs is strong evidence that Ozzie and company have done a good job of holding this ship together despite the liabilities. There is no need for teal here.

And maybe the "holding this ship together" is only necessary because of the mistakes Ozzie and company have made -- for example, not being able to fix the three automatic outs, and giving them all this playing time.

JB98
08-22-2011, 09:25 PM
This thread was not started solely because of a 10-0 win. It was started based on the performances all season of the guys who have not been automatic outs and have been able to get on base. Basically, our line up has three automatic outs (Dunn, Rios and, to a degree, Beckham). Everyonehas pretty much performed as expected. The fact that the Sox are .500 and not in the same place as the Cubs is strong evidence that Ozzie and company have done a good job of holding this ship together despite the liabilities. There is no need for teal here.

Ozzie has had his worst season as Sox manager by far. There are baffling decisions being made on a daily basis.

The Sox are .500 only because the bullpen has been awesome since about mid-May.

DumpJerry
08-22-2011, 09:46 PM
Ozzie has had his worst season as Sox manager by far. There are baffling decisions being made on a daily basis.

The Sox are .500 only because the bullpen has been awesome since about mid-May.
You contradict yourself in this post, or is Ozzie not to get credit for anything positive?

And, "worst season as Sox manager by far." Is that not a little bit of hyperbole (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2007.shtml)?

gosox41
08-22-2011, 09:55 PM
It is.


Thanks to Dunn and Rios, it's going to probably get better.


Bob

kittle42
08-22-2011, 09:59 PM
You contradict yourself in this post, or is Ozzie not to get credit for anything positive?

And, "worst season as Sox manager by far." Is that not a little bit of hyperbole (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2007.shtml)?

Not hyperbole, because that 2007 team should never have amounted to anything. His almost daily managing blunders, both pregame and during the game, in 2011 are inexcusable.

DumpJerry
08-22-2011, 10:01 PM
Not hyperbole, because that 2007 team should never have amounted to anything. His almost daily managing blunders, both pregame and during the game, in 2011 are inexcusable.
Daily, huh? This is quickly becoming one of those classic comedy threads we have now and then......

JB98
08-22-2011, 10:05 PM
You contradict yourself in this post, or is Ozzie not to get credit for anything positive?

And, "worst season as Sox manager by far." Is that not a little bit of hyperbole (http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2007.shtml)?

Not at all. The 2007 team was the worst of Ozzie's tenure, but it was not his worst managing job.

The greatest manager of all-time could not have guided the 2007 club to even a .500 record. It was a garbage roster. Nothing Ozzie could do about it.

This year, we have a good roster that has underachieved badly. A good deal of that is on the players. Some of it is also on the manager and the coaching staff.

Go back and read the WSI preseason predictions thread. You'll see that WSIers all thought this was a 90-win team. Yet here they sit at .500 on Aug. 22, and they haven't had any significant injuries they can use as an excuse.

Frankly, I don't see much positive going on to give Ozzie credit for. This season is a lost cause and it has been since May.

doublem23
08-22-2011, 10:17 PM
Frankly, I don't see much positive going on to give Ozzie credit for. This season is a lost cause and it has been since May.

Yeah, I can't figure out what exactly anyone expects him to get credit for? I guess he's handled the pitching staff well but since Thornton has righted himself, everyone has kind of fallen into place. I guess I'll give him props for managing the bullpen like a normal person would, because his lineup moves have been HORRENDOUS all season.

Ozzie's been bad all year long. This is easily the worst job he's done here.

doublem23
08-22-2011, 10:18 PM
Daily, huh? This is quickly becoming one of those classic comedy threads we have now and then......

The only thing funny in this thread is the OP

wassagstdu
08-22-2011, 10:21 PM
Go back and read the WSI preseason predictions thread. You'll see that WSIers all thought this was a 90-win team. Yet here they sit at .500 on Aug. 22, and they haven't had any significant injuries they can use as an excuse.

Frankly, I don't see much positive going on to give Ozzie credit for. This season is a lost cause and it has been since May.

That proves it. WSI over-rated this team, so their underperformance must be Ozzie's fault. Couldn't have been wishful thinking or faulty evaluation by WSI. And we can see Ozzie's daily errors with 20:20 hindsight -- though of course they all involve players failing to execute.

doublem23
08-22-2011, 10:22 PM
That proves it. WSI over-rated this team, so their underperformance must be Ozzie's fault. Couldn't have been wishful thinking or faulty evaluation by WSI. And we can see Ozzie's daily errors with 20:20 hindsight -- though of course they all involve players failing to execute.

It does not take 20/20 hindsight to know that if you're telling people you're playing to win, you don't bat your DH hitting .160-ish in the middle of the lineup.

JB98
08-22-2011, 10:32 PM
That proves it. WSI over-rated this team, so their underperformance must be Ozzie's fault. Couldn't have been wishful thinking or faulty evaluation by WSI. And we can see Ozzie's daily errors with 20:20 hindsight -- though of course they all involve players failing to execute.

It IS partially his fault. You conveniently snipped out the part of my post where I said, "A good deal of that is on the players."

There are players on this roster who have done a horrible job. The manager hasn't held them accountable.

It's asinine that a .160 hitter was allowed to bat fourth in the lineup into August. Between asinine decisions to bunt with Alexei Ramirez and having Dunn hit behind Konerko in the lineup, Ozzie has taken the bat out of his best hitter's hands so many times that it is ridiculous.

The manager still hasn't figured out yet that Alex Rios in CF hurts the team both offensively and defensively.

Tragg
08-22-2011, 11:17 PM
What is the basis for this assertion?

That they were with the minor league coaches for years, and with these coaches for a couple of weeks. That is the basis.
you can give them credit for Morel, perhaps; but Morel was a better minor league hitter.

JB98
08-22-2011, 11:53 PM
That proves it. WSI over-rated this team, so their underperformance must be Ozzie's fault. Couldn't have been wishful thinking or faulty evaluation by WSI. And we can see Ozzie's daily errors with 20:20 hindsight -- though of course they all involve players failing to execute.

Even if WSI did overrate this team, can you blame us? We're still being hit over the head with "All In" commercials every half inning. If the fans overrated the talent level on this team, so did the White Sox brass.

Sox management, which rarely squanders an opportunity to remind the fans of how stupid we are, thought this was a legitimate championship contender at the start of the year.

33 games in, the club was 11-22 and the season was effectively over already.

KRS1
08-23-2011, 12:04 AM
Who was coaching De Aza and Flowers in Charlotte? Thank him.

Possibly, Tim Laker's had some very good things said about him this season.

kittle42
08-23-2011, 10:00 AM
Even if WSI did overrate this team, can you blame us? We're still being hit over the head with "All In" commercials every half inning. If the fans overrated the talent level on this team, so did the White Sox brass.

Sox management, which rarely squanders an opportunity to remind the fans of how stupid we are, thought this was a legitimate championship contender at the start of the year.

33 games in, the club was 11-22 and the season was effectively over already.

JB, you are on fire in this thread. Bravo!

Lip Man 1
08-23-2011, 11:23 AM
It wasn't only WSI...many of the national baseball pundits picked the Sox to win the division including I think the majority of the baseball commentators at the Eastern Sports Programming Network.

This wasn't a 95-100 win team to be sure, but it was very reasonable (assuming they didn't get hammered by injuries) to think they were going to win at least as many games as last season.

They got behind the eight ball again at the start of the season for the 5th consecutive year.

Who is to blame for that given the number of different players from different organizations with different skills that came through the doors in that time span.

Lip

JB98
08-23-2011, 12:41 PM
JB, you are on fire in this thread. Bravo!

Thanks.

This whole idea of blaming fans for having their expectations too high just isn't going to fly with me right now. In fact, such an argument is one of the bigger crocks I've read on WSI in some time.

The Sox have a $125 million payroll. They play in the sorriest division in all of baseball. Management told us they were "All In" and nothing short of championship baseball would be acceptable. Yet, barring a miracle, this club will fail to produce even a division title in the horrendous AL Central this year.

We've had to soldier through a .500 season of utterly forgettable baseball. We pay the fifth-highest ticket prices in MLB to watch a team that plays like absolute horse**** at home. After a pathetic April, the whole summer has been wasted on the dogged pursuit of the .500 mark. The whole thing is disappointing on so many levels.

I don't give a damn if people think poor Ozzie and Walk are being persecuted by angry and/or disappointed fans who "don't know anything about baseball." I may not know anything about baseball, but I do know the results on the South Side suck this year.

Was a division title really too much to ask this season? I really don't believe so.

Lip Man 1
08-23-2011, 02:08 PM
JB:

Well said. This is nothing personal against either Ozzie or Greg, at least on my account. It's simply a business decision.

Things have been mediocre for the past five years, the record shows it, this is not an interpretation...those are the facts.

Change is needed. They've already changed a boatload of players in the past five years. "It's time" to change something else.

Lip

ChiSoxGirl
08-23-2011, 02:13 PM
Thanks.

This whole idea of blaming fans for having their expectations too high just isn't going to fly with me right now. In fact, such an argument is one of the bigger crocks I've read on WSI in some time.

The Sox have a $125 million payroll. They play in the sorriest division in all of baseball. Management told us they were "All In" and nothing short of championship baseball would be acceptable. Yet, barring a miracle, this club will fail to produce even a division title in the horrendous AL Central this year.

We've had to soldier through a .500 season of utterly forgettable baseball. We pay the fifth-highest ticket prices in MLB to watch a team that plays like absolute horse**** at home. After a pathetic April, the whole summer has been wasted on the dogged pursuit of the .500 mark. The whole thing is disappointing on so many levels.

I don't give a damn if people think poor Ozzie and Walk are being persecuted by angry and/or disappointed fans who "don't know anything about baseball." I may not know anything about baseball, but I do know the results on the South Side suck this year.

Was a division title really too much to ask this season? I really don't believe so.

Brilliant. :thumbsup:

Hitmen77
08-23-2011, 02:59 PM
This thread was not started solely because of a 10-0 win. It was started based on the performances all season of the guys who have not been automatic outs and have been able to get on base. Basically, our line up has three automatic outs (Dunn, Rios and, to a degree, Beckham). Everyonehas pretty much performed as expected. The fact that the Sox are .500 and not in the same place as the Cubs is strong evidence that Ozzie and company have done a good job of holding this ship together despite the liabilities. There is no need for teal here.

I want a Sox management team that does more than just strive to be better than the Cubs.

Thanks.

This whole idea of blaming fans for having their expectations too high just isn't going to fly with me right now. In fact, such an argument is one of the bigger crocks I've read on WSI in some time.

The Sox have a $125 million payroll. They play in the sorriest division in all of baseball. Management told us they were "All In" and nothing short of championship baseball would be acceptable. Yet, barring a miracle, this club will fail to produce even a division title in the horrendous AL Central this year.

We've had to soldier through a .500 season of utterly forgettable baseball. We pay the fifth-highest ticket prices in MLB to watch a team that plays like absolute horse**** at home. After a pathetic April, the whole summer has been wasted on the dogged pursuit of the .500 mark. The whole thing is disappointing on so many levels.

I don't give a damn if people think poor Ozzie and Walk are being persecuted by angry and/or disappointed fans who "don't know anything about baseball." I may not know anything about baseball, but I do know the results on the South Side suck this year.

Was a division title really too much to ask this season? I really don't believe so.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Post of the Week.

Boondock Saint
08-23-2011, 03:07 PM
Thanks.

This whole idea of blaming fans for having their expectations too high just isn't going to fly with me right now. In fact, such an argument is one of the bigger crocks I've read on WSI in some time.

The Sox have a $125 million payroll. They play in the sorriest division in all of baseball. Management told us they were "All In" and nothing short of championship baseball would be acceptable. Yet, barring a miracle, this club will fail to produce even a division title in the horrendous AL Central this year.

We've had to soldier through a .500 season of utterly forgettable baseball. We pay the fifth-highest ticket prices in MLB to watch a team that plays like absolute horse**** at home. After a pathetic April, the whole summer has been wasted on the dogged pursuit of the .500 mark. The whole thing is disappointing on so many levels.

I don't give a damn if people think poor Ozzie and Walk are being persecuted by angry and/or disappointed fans who "don't know anything about baseball." I may not know anything about baseball, but I do know the results on the South Side suck this year.

Was a division title really too much to ask this season? I really don't believe so.

Bravo. Bra-****ing-vo.

russ99
08-23-2011, 07:04 PM
It IS partially his fault. You conveniently snipped out the part of my post where I said, "A good deal of that is on the players."

There are players on this roster who have done a horrible job. The manager hasn't held them accountable.

It's asinine that a .160 hitter was allowed to bat fourth in the lineup into August. Between asinine decisions to bunt with Alexei Ramirez and having Dunn hit behind Konerko in the lineup, Ozzie has taken the bat out of his best hitter's hands so many times that it is ridiculous.

The manager still hasn't figured out yet that Alex Rios in CF hurts the team both offensively and defensively.

What a crock.

Yet again, because you disagree with bunting in general, you assume Ozzie is an idiot instead of using a strategy that all big league managers use.

And I'm so sick of that excuse that because Ramirez isn't an average bunter that he should never bunt.

On one hand you rip Ozzie for not "teaching" and on the other you rip Ozzie for giving a player chances in a game situation when strategy calls for to work on improving his bunting.

Dunn and Rios have had bad seasons, but he's given them every chance to work out of it, the same way he's done so with Konerko and Dye when in their slumps in past years.

The gripes about Ozzie's "poor managing in 2011" are the exact same managing as in 2004 through 2010, only it's not working to your satisfaction this year.

Has anyone asked Kenny why Dunn and Rios are playing?? Ozzie fills the lineup card, KW acquires the players.

Ozzie's not blameless, he had a bad run with the pen early on and didn't insist on Walker getting fired when given the out (at least in the press). But this year is 85% on the players and Kenny's gambling nature catching up with him and 15% on Ozzie.

Boondock Saint
08-23-2011, 07:11 PM
What a crock.

Yet again, because you disagree with bunting in general, you assume Ozzie is an idiot instead of using atrategy that all big league managers use.

And I'm so sick of that excuse that because Ramirez isn't an average bunter that he should never bunt.

On one hand you rip Ozzie for not "teaching" and on the other you rip Ozzie for giving a player chances in a game situation when strategy calls for to work on improving his bunting.

Dunn and Rios have had bad seasons, but he's given them every chance to work out of it, the same way he's done so with Konerko and Dye in past years.

The gripes about Ozzie's "poor managing in 2011" are the same managing as in 2005 through 2010, only it's not working to your satisfaction this year.

This post is broken.

1) Bunting is a great strategy when utilizing players who can do it, and in the right situations, not with guys who have repeatedly shown an inability to do so, and when it's a dumb strategic move.

2) Alexei shouldn't bunt until he learns to do it correctly.

3) You work on your bunting during batting practice, not during a game. If a guy who can't bunt is up in a bunting situation, don't do it.

4) If Ozzie wants to give Rios and Dunn a chance to hit out of their collective "slumps", that's fine. But keeping them in key RBI spots in the batting order defies logic.

5) People have been pissed about Ozzie's management skills (or lack thereof) for a lot longer than this season. It's not like people just now realized that Ozzie does some completely idiotic things.

Has anyone asked Kenny why Dunn and Rios are playing?? Ozzie fills the lineup card, KW acquires the players.

I seem to remember KW, at a press conference, saying that Ozzie needs to play the guys who are going to help the team win, regardless of salary.

JB98
08-23-2011, 07:18 PM
What a crock.

Yet again, because you disagree with bunting in general, you assume Ozzie is an idiot instead of using a strategy that all big league managers use.

And I'm so sick of that excuse that because Ramirez isn't an average bunter that he should never bunt.

On one hand you rip Ozzie for not "teaching" and on the other you rip Ozzie for giving a player chances in a game situation when strategy calls for to work on improving his bunting.

Dunn and Rios have had bad seasons, but he's given them every chance to work out of it, the same way he's done so with Konerko and Dye when in their slumps in past years.

The gripes about Ozzie's "poor managing in 2011" are the exact same managing as in 2004 through 2010, only it's not working to your satisfaction this year.

Has anyone asked Kenny why Dunn and Rios are playing?? Ozzie fills the lineup card, KW acquires the players.

Ozzie's not blameless, he had a bad run with the pen early on and didn't insist on Walker getting fired when given the out (at least in the press). But this year is 85% on the players and Kenny's gambling nature catching up with him and 15% on Ozzie.

Please read what I actually wrote and then try again. Thanks.

JB98
08-23-2011, 07:30 PM
2) Alexei shouldn't bunt until he learns to do it correctly.

His ability to bunt or not bunt is almost beside the point.

There have been times this season where Ramirez has laid down a successful sacrifice, but it was still horrific managing. Why? Because now first base is open, so they walk Konerko and pitch to the .160 hitter in the cleanup spot. They strike out the .160 hitter and eventually get out of the inning after the Sox manager has taken the bat out of the hands of BOTH Ramirez and Konerko. The lack of logic boggles the mind.

Alexei is probably the third-best run producer on this team this year, so given the makeup of the roster, he shouldn't be the guy being asked to give himself up.

Why doesn't Ozzie ever ask Rios to bunt? I'm not opposed to making the .212 hitter lay one down.

kittle42
08-24-2011, 12:36 AM
Ozzie's been bad all year long. This is easily the worst job he's done here.

Add another game to the list. Horrible player execution and horrible managing.