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View Full Version : *Official* Is There a Clutch Hitter in the House? Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
08-18-2011, 10:16 PM
Lose two of three to Cleveland and you're back below .500.

rdwj
08-18-2011, 10:17 PM
Why do I keep getting sucked into this? The result is always the same

Lip Man 1
08-18-2011, 10:18 PM
Well.....

BIG SURPRISE

The Sox offense is M.I.A. (again)...
Walkerball is back in full force (again)...
And the Sox are back under .500 (again...)

White Sox baseball 2011: The more things change they more they stay the same.

----------------------

60th time (in 123 games) the Sox have scored three runs or less.

Lip

Dick Allen
08-18-2011, 10:18 PM
**** this team. Over and out.

WhiteSox5187
08-18-2011, 10:18 PM
We're just not a very good team. This...god ****ing dammit, it's the same god damned story. Carmona at least looked very good last night tonight we did what we do best, let a struggling guy off the hook. Even if we somehow win this division there is NO reason for Greg Walker to be back.

DirtySox
08-18-2011, 10:19 PM
Who's ready for Harrison, Ogando, and Holland? How about one of the best offenses in baseball?

billyvsox
08-18-2011, 10:19 PM
Regarding the comments that Ozzie has no clutch hitters to go to. May I suggest that De Aza has looked good, Flowers has looked good too. Is there any reason to think Viciedo wouldnt look better then most of these bums!!

doublem23
08-18-2011, 10:19 PM
Well looks like we had our hot streak

all*star quentin
08-18-2011, 10:20 PM
I hope, Philip Humber won't have any lingering health problems. :o:

WhiteSoxOnly
08-18-2011, 10:20 PM
What was that Dennis Green comment again ?

hi im skot
08-18-2011, 10:20 PM
Who's ready for Harrison, Ogando, and Holland? How about one of the best offenses in baseball?

Pretty psyched to see some good hitters in Chicago for once.

DirtySox
08-18-2011, 10:20 PM
Is there any reason to think Viciedo wouldnt look better then most of these bums!!

Not really. But Dayan is busy getting hurt in Charlotte.

DirtySox
08-18-2011, 10:21 PM
Pretty psyched to see some good hitters in Chicago for once.

You and me both.

kittle42
08-18-2011, 10:21 PM
Same team. Nothing to see here.

Just win series.

The team has turned a corner.

IF this team wins the division...

Yeah. No. Crap players. Crap manager. Crap execution by all.

But by all means, let's keep "competing while rebuilding."

2011 - less fun than 2007.

OmahaSoxFan
08-18-2011, 10:22 PM
Who's ready for Harrison, Ogando, and Holland? How about one of the best offenses in baseball?

Looks like the makings of a Rangers sweep that may finally lay this mediocre White Sox teams' post-season chances to rest. Not much of a reason to be too optimistic at this point. This team is pretty crappy - well the offense is, pitching isn't too bad.

mccoydp
08-18-2011, 10:23 PM
Is there a clutch hitter in the house? Definitely not Gordon ****ing Beckham in the bottom of the 8th inning, with the bases ****ing loaded.

BleacherBandit
08-18-2011, 10:23 PM
Same team. Nothing to see here.

Just win series.

The team has turned a corner.

IF this team wins the division...

Yeah. No. Crap players. Crap manager. Crap execution by all.

But by all means, let's keep "competing while rebuilding."

2011 - less fun than 2007.


True, true, true.

Although nothing will beat 2007. 2011 isn't as bad as 2009 yet.

tstrike2000
08-18-2011, 10:24 PM
3 runs the last two games, garbage. After losing the last two during this crapfest, probably not a good time to face the hottest team in the AL.

hi im skot
08-18-2011, 10:26 PM
3 runs the last two games, garbage. After losing the last two during this crapfest, probably not a good time to face the hottest team in the AL.

They'll take two of three just to **** with us.

kittle42
08-18-2011, 10:26 PM
3 runs the last two games, garbage. After losing the last two during this crapfest, probably not a good time to face the hottest team in the AL.

Bleh. Wouldn't surprise me if the Sox won 2 or even 3. They'll turn right around and lose 2 or 3 the following series regardless of the quality of the opponent.

thomas35forever
08-18-2011, 10:26 PM
I'm taking a page out of Lip's book and giving some dreary team batting averages going into tonight:

Overall - .254 (8th in AL)
Bases loaded - .217 (13th in AL)
Runners on - .257 (10th in AL)
Runners on, 2 outs - .232 (10th in AL)
Scoring position - .241 (11th in AL)
Scoring position, 2 outs - .208 (12th in AL)
Late/close - .234 (13th in AL)

Does that look like a championship contender to you?

happydude
08-18-2011, 10:27 PM
Needed to get at least two and failed; simply a long season of ALWAYS coming up short. At least the Tribe and Detroit square off this weekend so we should still be in decent shape Monday morning even if Texas throttles us. We're not a good team but at least it appears that we'll be able to maintain some semblance of hope for a playoff birth throughout the majority of this season. I know its not much but its better than nothing.

arKnaD7
08-18-2011, 10:27 PM
Great job by the bullpen in a tough spot tonight.

The White Sox are 0-19 in their last 20 plate appearances with the bases loaded

http://twitter.com/#!/CSNChi_Beatnik/status/104388244313092096

BleacherBandit
08-18-2011, 10:29 PM
I'm taking a page out of Lip's book and giving some dreary team batting averages going into tonight:

Overall - .254 (8th in AL)
Bases loaded - .217 (13th in AL)
Runners on - .257 (10th in AL)
Runners on, 2 outs - .232 (10th in AL)
Scoring position - .241 (11th in AL)
Scoring position, 2 outs - .208 (12th in AL)
Late/close - .234 (13th in AL)

Does that look like a championship contender to you?

No, but it looks like it could be a AL Central division winner in 2011. Some people here just want to see that. I do too. I just want to see the Sox win.

PaleHoser
08-18-2011, 10:29 PM
They'll take two of three just to **** with us.

Only if the Rangers charter never manages to actually land in Chicago.

thomas35forever
08-18-2011, 10:32 PM
No, but it looks like it could be a AL Central division winner in 2011. Some people here just want to see that. I do too. I just want to see the Sox win.
But we're not winning the division and the reasons are those numbers I just posted, so just doing that is a tall order itself.

BigKlu59
08-18-2011, 10:32 PM
Is there a clutch hitter in the house? Definitely not Gordon ****ing Beckham in the bottom of the 8th inning, with the bases ****ing loaded.

The answer to your question is a resounding...NO!! This team is like watching paint dry with RISP. I'm beginning to believe there is a cattle prod at the other end of .500 and each and every time they reach it they get a zap back into the reality of pathetic mediocrity..

BK59

Lip Man 1
08-18-2011, 10:34 PM
Ark:

That's incredible.

You'd think simple law of averages would have someone stick a bat out and get a hit.

Lip

Nelfox02
08-18-2011, 10:36 PM
Needed to get at least two and failed; simply a long season of ALWAYS coming up short. At least the Tribe and Detroit square off this weekend so we should still be in decent shape Monday morning even if Texas throttles us. We're not a good team but at least it appears that we'll be able to maintain some semblance of hope for a playoff birth throughout the majority of this season. I know its not much but its better than nothing.


Slogan for next seasons marketing campaigns?

thomas35forever
08-18-2011, 10:37 PM
Ark:

That's incredible.

You'd think simple law of averages would have someone stick a bat out and get a hit.

Lip
There's always an outlier and we, unfortunately, appear to be it.

mccoydp
08-18-2011, 10:37 PM
The answer to your question is a resounding...NO!! This team is like watching paint dry with RISP. I'm beginning to believe there is a cattle prod at the other end of .500 and each and every time they reach it they get a zap back into the reality of pathetic mediocrity..

BK59

That is ****ing hilarious! :D:

amsteel
08-18-2011, 10:37 PM
Just got back from a movie, what happened to Humber?

happydude
08-18-2011, 10:37 PM
Slogan for next seasons marketing campaigns?

Lol! Probably more accurate than anything the marketing guys will come up with.

Lip Man 1
08-18-2011, 10:38 PM
Thomas:

"Luck is the residue of design" - Branch Rickey

Lip

SBSoxFan
08-18-2011, 10:38 PM
Is there a clutch hitter in the house? Definitely not Gordon ****ing Beckham in the bottom of the 8th inning, with the bases ****ing loaded.

On a night Adam Dunn has two hits, Rios scores a run, and the opposition goes 1-10 with RISP and has 11 LOB, the Sox still lose. :angry:

Time to move Flowers up in the batting order. Time to not pinch hit Quentin at home for anyone. Is it also time to put Vizquel at second much more often?

Nelfox02
08-18-2011, 10:40 PM
The Good----Flowers had some nice AB's, Konerko a bomb

The Bad-----Humber getting hit on the head, at least early reports are saying he is okay

The Ugly----Gordon Beckham



It is what it is at this point with this group. they just arent a good team....not Astros awful mind you.....but not good either

80-81 wins?

SoxSpeed22
08-18-2011, 10:40 PM
True, true, true.

Although nothing will beat 2007. 2011 isn't as bad as 2009 yet.At least 2009 had the perfect game. As far as 2011 goes, two steps forwards, two steps back, just like Paula Abdul.

DickAllen72
08-18-2011, 10:41 PM
Time to fire Walker. Time to send Beckham to AA.

Jurr
08-18-2011, 10:47 PM
There went the 2011 season.
It's been fun.
No way they catch 2 teams.

shingo10
08-18-2011, 10:51 PM
Beckham can't hit.

He can't hit any type of fastball.

He can't lay off pitches way out of the strike zone.

In fact I was joking that the Indians would intentionally walk Flowers just to get to Beckham. Why not? He can't hit.

I mean I know he gives a crap and plays good defense and it looks like he is pretty hard on himself but the sad truth is that he just isn't very good offensively.

PalehosePlanet
08-18-2011, 10:52 PM
The Good----Flowers had some nice AB's, Konerko a bomb

The Bad-----Humber getting hit on the head, at least early reports are saying he is okay

The Ugly----Gordon Beckham



It is what it is at this point with this group. they just arent a good team....not Astros awful mind you.....but not good either

80-81 wins?

You forgot too add to The Ugly Will Ohman's performance. Facing Choo, who is sucking, and Fukudome who sucks, and give up two back to back bullets by missing his spots by a foot and a half with the fastball, is absolutely terrible.

JB98
08-18-2011, 10:53 PM
It's a sad day when the opposition is working around Tyler Flowers because they know Gordon Beckham is an automatic out.

That kid's swing is in ruins.

Soxman219
08-18-2011, 10:57 PM
I'm very frustrated that there is no clutch hitter on this team. I knew that Beckham would strike out with the bases loaded and I knew they would go 3 and out in the 9th. It's the same story with this team! The Indians were trying their hardest to gift-wrap this game and the Sox were too nice! Now they gotta face the hottest team in baseball. The Rangers might get 12 HR in this series, 4 from Hamliton alone.:(:

BainesHOF
08-18-2011, 10:57 PM
It was ridiculous to let Beckham bat in the eighth. I'm more than tired of seeing such stupidity from Guillen.

Beckham isn't even a Major Leaguer. He's completely lost at the plate. What's most disconcerting is his approach is worse than ever. He's starting with the end of his bat pointing toward the pitcher. With his buggywhip swing, it takes him forever to get the bat through the hitting zone. He has very little chance to be successful swinging like that. His swing is so slow and long that part of the reason he's swinging at garbage is that he has to commit early just to get the bat through the zone.

This is the second straight season that Beckham's been bad offensively. Given that, it's unbelievable that his mechanical approach remains so poor. You would think by now that some corrections would have been made.

PalehosePlanet
08-18-2011, 10:59 PM
Beckham can't hit.

He can't hit any type of fastball.

He can't lay off pitches way out of the strike zone.

In fact I was joking that the Indians would intentionally walk Flowers just to get to Beckham. Why not? He can't hit.

I mean I know he gives a crap and plays good defense and it looks like he is pretty hard on himself but the sad truth is that he just isn't very good offensively.

Big ****ing deal. All field, no bat, 2nd baseman are 3 for a dollar.

He needs to completely break down and change his swing this winter. He should do this of his own accord, hire his own hitting instructor if he has to, to save his career.

If Lillibridge can do it so can he, we'll see how coach-able he is.

Vernam
08-18-2011, 11:01 PM
Is there a clutch hitter in the house? Definitely not Gordon ****ing Beckham in the bottom of the 8th inning, with the bases ****ing loaded.

When Hawk predicts you're going to strike out, you are officially horse****.

It's curious that our raw rookies coming up from the minors have a better concept of the strike zone than players who've had the benefit of major league coaching all season. Come to think of it, Beckham used to have a pretty decent eye himself. Sure, the league has probably figured him out to at least some extent, but it's only a matter of time before he makes the right adjustments with Walker's help.

Vernam

PalehosePlanet
08-18-2011, 11:02 PM
It's a sad day when the opposition is working around Tyler Flowers because they know Gordon Beckham is an automatic out.

That kid's swing is in ruins.

Tyler is the most patient hitter on this team right now, Paulie notwithstanding. I would have him protecting Konerko, or Alexei at this point. That's how ****ing sad this lineup is right now.

BainesHOF
08-18-2011, 11:08 PM
If Lillibridge can do it so can he, we'll see how coach-able he is.

Looking at Beckham's swing now after two struggling seasons, it doesn't look like he's at all coachable. Nobody would coach him to hit like that.

Lip Man 1
08-18-2011, 11:14 PM
"Nobody would coach him to hit like that."

http://www.rightviewpro.com/image/medium/1320.jpg

Hello!

Lip

SSrep
08-18-2011, 11:25 PM
Depressing night up there...we're just not very good. Oh well...

GoSox2K3
08-18-2011, 11:30 PM
Same team. Nothing to see here.

Just win series.

The team has turned a corner.

IF this team wins the division...

Yeah. No. Crap players. Crap manager. Crap execution by all.

But by all means, let's keep "competing while rebuilding."

2011 - less fun than 2007.

LOL.

....and if you don't want Ozzie and Kenny back you must be desperate to stick to your narrative.

ChiSoxGirl
08-18-2011, 11:43 PM
Just got back from a movie, what happened to Humber?

Humber took a line drive off the forehead from Fukudome. He left the field under his own power and was responsive when examined in the clubhouse. He'll be watched carefully tonight and reevaluated tomorrow.

It's a sad day when the opposition is working around Tyler Flowers because they know Gordon Beckham is an automatic out.

That kid's swing is in ruins.

No kidding; he looks completely lost at the plate! Walker has destroyed "the face of the franchise," but will continue to be gainfully employed.

Soxman219
08-18-2011, 11:52 PM
Please heal as fast as you can AJ.:(:

hawkjt
08-18-2011, 11:53 PM
Hope Humber is ok...that was viscious.
Masterson was actually hittable tonite for a change, He was throwing everything up for a change with minimum of control. Sox got him for 7 hits,but as usual,no clutch hits. Never seen a more un-clutch team than this one at the plate. That 0-19 in bases loaded situation does not surprise me.

Ohman faces 4 lefties in the 6th...single,triple,walk,and hbp....nice loogy performance.
Their bullpen beat our bullpen tonite. Or actually,just ohman.

These starters we are facing the next ten games are all better than Masterson,so Sox have to find a way to beat Ogando,Harrsion,Holland,Weaver,Santana,King Felix ect. or they will be out of this race by Sept 1. I have my doubts that this team can hit well enough to do it. Sure could have used AJ tonite,as a pinch hitter for Beckham. Cannot help but be impressed with Flowers tho, big guy is athletic and can swing the lumber. Only real bright spot for the future tonite.

Falstaff
08-19-2011, 12:01 AM
It's a sad day when the opposition is working around Tyler Flowers because they know Gordon Beckham is an automatic out.

That kid's swing is in ruins.
In light of the production and promise we saw in Beckham's rookie year...
His year-by-year decline is even more painful to witness.
Consider this case to be "Exhibit A" for why Greg Walker has to leave.
This was a player that seemed ready to own MLB pitching and was once
a doubles machine, with a few clutch HR as well. Where did the skills
go? Not like his bat slowed down due to age.

Dibbs
08-19-2011, 12:07 AM
Well, I went to the game because I had some free tickets. I don't know what's worse: The fact that I got Walkered, or the concert that was playing on the scoreboard for an hour pregame. What a nightmare.

slavko
08-19-2011, 12:25 AM
It was ridiculous to let Beckham bat in the eighth. I'm more than tired of seeing such stupidity from Guillen.

Beckham isn't even a Major Leaguer. He's completely lost at the plate. What's most disconcerting is his approach is worse than ever. He's starting with the end of his bat pointing toward the pitcher. With his buggywhip swing, it takes him forever to get the bat through the hitting zone. He has very little chance to be successful swinging like that. His swing is so slow and long that part of the reason he's swinging at garbage is that he has to commit early just to get the bat through the zone.

This is the second straight season that Beckham's been bad offensively. Given that, it's unbelievable that his mechanical approach remains so poor. You would think by now that some corrections would have been made.

Swing analysis like this is why I pay you the big money. How can you hit a fastball if your bat is half a second away from being in position to hit as you await the pitch? Lordy, I hope someone from the team is reading your post! He's essentially the same player as Chris Getz who is on the bench at lowly KC. Or Brian Anderson who is nowhere. Somebody has ruined him and it might be the hitting coach.

BoysMom3
08-19-2011, 12:26 AM
Well that sucked. So much for getting my hopes up again. How many chances can they blow? How many guys can be stranded on the bases?

I hope Humber is ok. That was brutal watching it over and over again.

Nellie_Fox
08-19-2011, 12:32 AM
Well that sucked. So much for getting my hopes up again. How many chances can they blow? How many guys can be stranded on the bases?

I hope Humber is ok. That was brutal watching it over and over again.It's amazing to me that a pitcher takes a line drive to the forehead, and virtually the entire post-game thread is ranting about who should be fired, who should be released, who should be sent down, with almost no one expressing any concern. Thank you. There is more to life than how much the Sox losing is ruining your entire existence.

BNLSox
08-19-2011, 01:33 AM
It's amazing to me that a pitcher takes a line drive to the forehead, and virtually the entire post-game thread is ranting about who should be fired, who should be released, who should be sent down, with almost no one expressing any concern. Thank you. There is more to life than how much the Sox losing is ruining your entire existence.

+1

I'm glad to hear early indications are that he is fine. I missed the game, but looked at the box and became incredibly concerned when he only pitched 1 1/3 innings.

Today's result shouldn't surprise anyone... We lost our starter in the second inning and Ozzie marched out a pretty soft line-up. This was no more end of the world than any other loss. Back away from the ledge and let this division play itself out. Worse case scenario is we go on another nasty losing streak and we get to see a month of the youth movement to see what we can expect in the upcoming years. So it goes.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
08-19-2011, 03:32 AM
Yay, I come home after a hard night of work/visiting my mom at the hospital, only to have to TBGR this garbage.

Oy, it's going to take everything in my power to be able to make this crap funny...

EDIT: Forget it, I'm too tired/stressed to do it right now. I'll do it when I wake up.

LITTLE NELL
08-19-2011, 05:14 AM
I was hoping for at least 6-3 on this homestand, won't happen. once again the Sox failed to meet my expectations. This team is driving me nuts.

LITTLE NELL
08-19-2011, 05:36 AM
Looking at Beckham's swing now after two struggling seasons, it doesn't look like he's at all coachable. Nobody would coach him to hit like that.

At least it hasn't hurt his fielding, but it would not break my heart if the Sox traded him. Is Chris Getz available?

October26
08-19-2011, 06:43 AM
Well that sucked. So much for getting my hopes up again. How many chances can they blow? How many guys can be stranded on the bases?

I hope Humber is ok. That was brutal watching it over and over again.

+3

Thanks for this post. You expressed my sentiments exactly. As a mom, I can only imagine the horror that Philip's mom felt as she saw him get hit in the head. I hope that Humber will be okay.

Bucky F. Dent
08-19-2011, 06:57 AM
"Nobody would coach him to hit like that."

http://www.rightviewpro.com/image/medium/1320.jpg

Hello!

Lip

Gallows humor, yes. But damned funny none the less.

Thanks, Lip!

Bucky F. Dent
08-19-2011, 06:59 AM
+3

Thanks for this post. You expressed my sentiments exactly. As a mom, I can only imagine the horror that Philip's mom felt as she saw him get hit in the head. I hope that Humber will be okay.


I like the kids makeup. His right eye is blowing up like a little balloon and yet on TV it appears that he is trying to talk Herm into letting him stay in the game!

Zakath
08-19-2011, 07:34 AM
Beckham now has 10 hits for the month of August (but 16 K's), and his average has dropped 14 points. 2 RBI for the month. He's also now 5 K's away from last season's total of 92.

The regression is evident, and the playbook on him is an easy read. Throw him high fastballs that he can't hit to get him behind, then make him chase stuff out of the zone, or just continue with the high stuff. No need to actually throw a ball in the zone.

His first year, he was about 2:3 BB/K. Now he's 1:4.

tstrike2000
08-19-2011, 07:37 AM
You forgot too add to The Ugly Will Ohman's performance. Facing Choo, who is sucking, and Fukudome who sucks, and give up two back to back bullets by missing his spots by a foot and a half with the fastball, is absolutely terrible.

To two guys he's supposed to be a "left specialist" against. Granted, Fukudome hit the ball hard all series.

SI1020
08-19-2011, 07:38 AM
Beckham now has 10 hits for the month of August (but 16 K's), and his average has dropped 14 points. 2 RBI for the month. He's also now 5 K's away from last season's total of 92.

The regression is evident, and the playbook on him is an easy read. Throw him high fastballs that he can't hit to get him behind, then make him chase stuff out of the zone, or just continue with the high stuff. No need to actually throw a ball in the zone.

His first year, he was about 2:3 BB/K. Now he's 1:4. It is really awful to see what has become of him. I don't see the Sox being able to fix him. A really sad waste of talent. He is now completely overmatched.

October26
08-19-2011, 07:47 AM
I like the kids makeup. His right eye is blowing up like a little balloon and yet on TV it appears that he is trying to talk Herm into letting him stay in the game!

I saw that too! Humber was saying, "I'm okay, I'm fine" while Herme was shaking his head no. I had an internal conflict going on as I watched that play unfold that went something like this:

Me the Sox fan: Leave him in, Herme, he's fine. Let him pitch.

Me the Mom: What? Are you crazy? The kid just got hit in the head. Take him outta there now and rush him to the hospital for a CAT scan immediately!

BTW: I can't remember if I've told you Bucky how I smile every time I see you post here on WSI. This is because it brings back memories of the 1970's, when I was a teenaged girl and I had a crush on Bucky Dent when Bucky was in a White Sox uniform. I was devastated when Bucky was traded and, of course, he would go on to do great things with the Yankees. I hope you have a great day and Go Sox!

hawkjt
08-19-2011, 07:56 AM
So was Gordon's hot second half last year a mirage? I fully expected him to hit at some point this year,and am still waiting. I am not ready to give up on him,but his current funk is as bad as he has ever been.
He had two hittable pitches in that last at bat, but fouled them off.

Zach Stewart made one bad mistake and that guy does not miss it,for a two run bomb. I like what Stewart has shown,tho, and do think he is going to be in the rotation next year. Will Humber? I thought they were starting to crush him again last nite when he got nailed by the liner.

Hartman
08-19-2011, 07:57 AM
Beckham was either overhyped or is being ruined by Walker. He has NO plate discipline what so ever and hasn't for a long time. Just goes up there and hacks, ends up striking out in the most embarrassing of ways. Reminds me of Juan Uribe.

Chez
08-19-2011, 08:12 AM
Gordon looks lost up there. No concept of the strike zone. Maybe put Lillibridge at 2B for a few days (even though he is not a good defensive second baseman) while Beckham tries to figure it out. Hopefully we'll catch Texas feeling too good about themselves. Is that possible?

kufram
08-19-2011, 08:46 AM
All the game stuff pales into insignificance when I think of what could have happened to Humber... and that is just on a human level, never mind his career. I have wondered what the scare on his face was about. Now, to read that it was a line drive to the cheek only last year, I know this guy has some stones. A lot of pitchers don't recover from hard liners to the face mentally even if they do recover physically.

I'm glad he seems to be ok ... he's done a lot for us this year.

BoysMom3
08-19-2011, 08:52 AM
I saw that too! Humber was saying, "I'm okay, I'm fine" while Herme was shaking his head no. I had an internal conflict going on as I watched that play unfold that went something like this:

Me the Sox fan: Leave him in, Herme, he's fine. Let him pitch.

Me the Mom: What? Are you crazy? The kid just got hit in the head. Take him outta there now and rush him to the hospital for a CAT scan immediately!

BTW: I can't remember if I've told you Bucky how I smile every time I see you post here on WSI. This is because it brings back memories of the 1970's, when I was a teenaged girl and I had a crush on Bucky Dent when Bucky was in a White Sox uniform. I was devastated when Bucky was traded and, of course, he would go on to do great things with the Yankees. I hope you have a great day and Go Sox!

That was me too!! I could totally read his lips and his facial expressions - he said he was all right, and he wanted to stay in. I thought like you-he says he's ok. Leave him in. And-he needs to be evaluated for a concussion. Just because he thinks he's ok doesn't mean he is. He was adamant-did you see his expression once he was in the dugout? He had to kind of be pushed out of there. I was glad to hear him say his wife would be keeping an eye on him. And does anyone else think he sort of resembles Steve Lyons?

soxfan1965
08-19-2011, 09:01 AM
Kind of interesting to read the Cleveland view. I guess their fans didn't like the Fukudome trade at first but now they are glad they did it. Fukudome wanted to contact Humber because of his comebacker line drive, but don't know if he did. Other comments include how they don't like the Hawk, how they're glad they didn't get a player like Dunn, how they fear Konerko and how they are better off walking him.

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2011/08/kosuke_fukudome_justin_masters.html

Domeshot17
08-19-2011, 09:04 AM
He isn't the only Culprit, but Gordon Beckham needs to step it up. 3 times in the last 2 games he came up to bat late where he represented the tying or go ahead run, and he gets himself in the hole by chasing balls out of the zone and fails to come through. Its getting to the point Lillibridge should be stealing time from him on a regular basis.

doublem23
08-19-2011, 09:20 AM
He isn't the only Culprit, but Gordon Beckham needs to step it up. 3 times in the last 2 games he came up to bat late where he represented the tying or go ahead run, and he gets himself in the hole by chasing balls out of the zone and fails to come through. Its getting to the point Lillibridge should be stealing time from him on a regular basis.

Obviously the failures of Dunn and Rios have been more costly to the Sox in 2011 but really, it's make or break time with Gordon, in three years he has gone from promising to struggling to bad to now completely hopeless. I know Walk has been credited with helping PK turn things around and the results have been tremendous as he has morphed into one of the best hitters in the AL in his mid-30s, but the Sox need to take a radical approach with Gordon to salvage his career. I honestly don't even know if he's worth holding on to for 2012. He is simply awful. His defense has been great all year, don't get me wrong, but you can't have 2 all-defense, no-offense guys in your lineup.

BainesHOF
08-19-2011, 10:20 AM
At least it hasn't hurt his fielding, but it would not break my heart if the Sox traded him.

In all seriousness, who'd want him? If Beckham doesn't improve with the bat he's going to be out of baseball soon.

Nellie_Fox
08-19-2011, 01:24 PM
Beckham was either overhyped or is being ruined by Walker. He has NO plate discipline what so ever and hasn't for a long time. Just goes up there and hacks, ends up striking out in the most embarrassing of ways. Reminds me of Juan Uribe.The third possibility is that, like pretty much every rookie ever, he had weaknesses that major-league pitchers discovered and exploited, and unlike successful rookies he's been unable to adjust back. You cannot "coach" somebody to stop chasing eye-high fastballs. I'm sure they've told him repeatedly. Hell, Hawk and Stone talk about it all the time. But other than telling him that's what he's doing, if those pitches continue to look good to him, what are you going to do?

Frater Perdurabo
08-19-2011, 01:31 PM
The third possibility is that, like pretty much every rookie ever, he had weaknesses that major-league pitchers discovered and exploited, and unlike successful rookies he's been unable to adjust back. You cannot "coach" somebody to stop chasing eye-high fastballs. I'm sure they've told him repeatedly. Hell, Hawk and Stone talk about it all the time. But other than telling him that's what he's doing, if those pitches continue to look good to him, what are you going to do?

There's a fourth possibility. Perhaps Walker has diagnosed Beckham's problem, but doesn't know how to communicate it to Beckham in such a way that Beckham makes the necessary changes. Sometimes a different voice is needed.

doublem23
08-19-2011, 01:33 PM
There's a fourth possibility. Perhaps Walker has diagnosed Beckham's problem, but doesn't know how to communicate it to Beckham in such a way that Beckham makes the necessary changes. Sometimes a different voice is needed.

I really don't see how that's any different than the scenario Hartman thought, that Beckham is being ruined by Walker.

Frater Perdurabo
08-19-2011, 01:37 PM
I really don't see how that's any different than the scenario Hartman thought, that Beckham is being ruined by Walker.

One scenario says that Walker is incompetent. The other says he has failed to communicate with Beckham. The end result is the same.

Frater Perdurabo
08-19-2011, 01:39 PM
I'd like to see the Sox bring in Walt Hriniak just to work with Beckham.

captain54
08-19-2011, 01:39 PM
, if those pitches continue to look good to him, what are you going to do?

Take him out of the lineup because he's useless.

Nellie_Fox
08-19-2011, 01:46 PM
There's a fourth possibility. Perhaps Walker has diagnosed Beckham's problem, but doesn't know how to communicate it to Beckham in such a way that Beckham makes the necessary changes. Sometimes a different voice is needed.

Walker: "Kid, you have to lay off the high fastball. I know it looks good, but it's killing you."

Beckham: "Huh? I don't understand."

SI1020
08-19-2011, 01:51 PM
I've feel like I've been banging my head against the wall but it has been my observation that Beckham's swing has gotten worse with each passing year. Another in a long line of young Sox hitters with a serious hole in their swings. Only Crede seemed to work at shortening his and then back troubles ended his career prematurely.

doublem23
08-19-2011, 01:53 PM
I've feel like I've been banging my head against the wall but it has been my observation that Beckham's swing has gotten worse with each passing year. Another in a long line of young Sox hitters with a serious long hole in their swings. Only Crede seemed to work at shortening his and then back troubles ended his career prematurely.

FWIW, Lillibridge's dramatic success this year has a lot to do with the improvements he's made in his swing. Much more compact and quick through the zone.

Frater Perdurabo
08-19-2011, 01:54 PM
Walker: "Kid, you have to lay off the high fastball. I know it looks good, but it's killing you."

Beckham: "Huh? I don't understand."

He might be able to catch up to the high fastball if he didn't have that long swing with the hitch in it. Walker thus far has been unable to get Beckham to ditch the hitch and shorten his swing.

The Sox have three choices: Carry on, fire Walker, or give up on Beckham.

Given the fact that Sox hitters for several years (with dozens of position players cycling through the team during that time) have been notorious at not making adjustments, and that since Walker joined the Sox they consistently have had the lowest BABIP in the majors, firing Walker is the obvious choice.

Bucky F. Dent
08-19-2011, 01:56 PM
BTW: I can't remember if I've told you Bucky how I smile every time I see you post here on WSI. This is because it brings back memories of the 1970's, when I was a teenaged girl and I had a crush on Bucky Dent when Bucky was in a White Sox uniform. I was devastated when Bucky was traded and, of course, he would go on to do great things with the Yankees. I hope you have a great day and Go Sox!

As a kid growing up, and as a middle infielder myself, Bucky was my favorite Sox player while he was here.

Bucky F. Dent
08-19-2011, 01:57 PM
Beckham was either overhyped or is being ruined by Walker. He has NO plate discipline what so ever and hasn't for a long time. Just goes up there and hacks, ends up striking out in the most embarrassing of ways. Reminds me of Juan Uribe.

No one on this team has plate discipline!

WhiteSox5187
08-19-2011, 01:58 PM
The third possibility is that, like pretty much every rookie ever, he had weaknesses that major-league pitchers discovered and exploited, and unlike successful rookies he's been unable to adjust back. You cannot "coach" somebody to stop chasing eye-high fastballs. I'm sure they've told him repeatedly. Hell, Hawk and Stone talk about it all the time. But other than telling him that's what he's doing, if those pitches continue to look good to him, what are you going to do?

What that doesn't explain though is why his swing has gotten so much longer since 2009 and developed a more pronounced uppercut. Pitchers are going to start making adjustments to a guy relatively early into his first season, a book can be out on a guy after about 100-150 ABs, Beckham had 378 ABs in 2009 and still hit .270 so he obviously had to have made some adjustments (especially when you consider he was 0 for his first 20 or so at bats). Beckham went from being a guy with a short swing who could take the ball the other way to a guy with a very long swing with a more pronounced upper cut. These are all developments that have occurred since he started working with Walker.

Nellie_Fox
08-19-2011, 02:04 PM
No one on this team has plate discipline!
Hyperbole.

WhiteSox5187
08-19-2011, 02:06 PM
Hyperbole.

Other than Konerko I am hard pressed to think of someone who has shown consistent plate discipline.

doublem23
08-19-2011, 02:10 PM
What that doesn't explain though is why his swing has gotten so much longer since 2009 and developed a more pronounced uppercut. Pitchers are going to start making adjustments to a guy relatively early into his first season, a book can be out on a guy after about 100-150 ABs, Beckham had 378 ABs in 2009 and still hit .270 so he obviously had to have made some adjustments (especially when you consider he was 0 for his first 20 or so at bats). Beckham went from being a guy with a short swing who could take the ball the other way to a guy with a very long swing with a more pronounced upper cut. These are all developments that have occurred since he started working with Walker.

I don't really know about that.

Here's Gordon in 2009: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=5029157

Here's Gordon in 2011: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17481711

I really don't see much mechanical difference. People have noted that Beckham's swing has been long and slow for some time now, as far back as when he was raking in the Arizona Fall League.

Nellie_Fox
08-19-2011, 02:13 PM
Other than Konerko I am hard pressed to think of someone who has shown consistent plate discipline.
He said "no one."

ChicagoG19
08-19-2011, 02:21 PM
Regarding the comments that Ozzie has no clutch hitters to go to. May I suggest that De Aza has looked good, Flowers has looked good too. Is there any reason to think Viciedo wouldnt look better then most of these bums!!

Walker will break em.

WhiteSox5187
08-19-2011, 02:21 PM
I don't really know about that.

Here's Gordon in 2009: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=5029157

Here's Gordon in 2011: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17481711

I really don't see much mechanical difference. People have noted that Beckham's swing has been long and slow for some time now, as far back as when he was raking in the Arizona Fall League.

Here is one thing I noticed in those two videos, in the first one his hands are much higher. It seems to my unprofessional eye that in the first video his hands are about at his face where as in the second video they are at his shoulder. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

I was talking with a scout a couple of weeks ago (who is a friend of my family's) and he mentioned that he thought that Beckham now has a much longer swing and his hitch has become much more pronounced.

Lip Man 1
08-19-2011, 03:04 PM
It appears as of now that Gordon is another product with talent rushed through the system for some reason before he was allowed to learn the game at a pro level.

As Daver has often said, the Sox have done this often, usually with the same results.

Lip

SI1020
08-19-2011, 03:13 PM
Here is one thing I noticed in those two videos, in the first one his hands are much higher. It seems to my unprofessional eye that in the first video his hands are about at his face where as in the second video they are at his shoulder. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

I was talking with a scout a couple of weeks ago (who is a friend of my family's) and he mentioned that he thought that Beckham now has a much longer swing and his hitch has become much more pronounced. I completely agree. It's gotten longer from Georgia to his rookie year to that hideous swing he has now. His regression screams help me please, help coach me out of this mess.

SoxSpeed22
08-19-2011, 04:08 PM
It would be nice if Beckham could be working these problems out in Charlotte or Birmingham, but thanks to rushing him, that can't be the case without having to put him through waivers and anyone would love to claim him. This is a fine mess management has on their hands.

wassagstdu
08-19-2011, 04:36 PM
That kid's swing is in ruins.

Beckham's AB in the 8th was one of the saddest in a sad season. Can't anyone teach him to shrtn his swiiwwwiiiinnnngggg?

kufram
08-19-2011, 04:46 PM
It appears as of now that Gordon is another product with talent rushed through the system for some reason before he was allowed to learn the game at a pro level.

As Daver has often said, the Sox have done this often, usually with the same results.

Lip

I don't think Beckham was rushed through the minor leagues just for fun. In fact, I believe when the press kept asking about Beckham being called up Ozzie said that if we saw Beckham on the White Sox roster it would be because we were in big trouble. In the end we were in big 3rd base trouble and he was really our only option. I am basing all of that on my memory, which I would never call reliable. Have I got that right?

Lip Man 1
08-19-2011, 05:08 PM
Kuf:

The Sox never do it "just for fun" that's correct but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and let these kids learn something regardless of what's happening at the major league level.

The Sox seem to rush kids for some reason, I've heard some talk that it's done in part to try to "justify" the minor league system and refute those who say it's so bad.

I certainly hope that's not the reason they are doing things like this but sometime you wonder.

Lip

slavko
08-19-2011, 05:13 PM
It would be nice if Beckham could be working these problems out in Charlotte or Birmingham, but thanks to rushing him, that can't be the case without having to put him through waivers and anyone would love to claim him. This is a fine mess management has on their hands.

Winter ball! He probably wouldn't go the Brian Anderson route and walk off the team down there, speaking of similar players.

PalehosePlanet
08-19-2011, 05:16 PM
It would be nice if Beckham could be working these problems out in Charlotte or Birmingham, but thanks to rushing him, that can't be the case without having to put him through waivers and anyone would love to claim him. This is a fine mess management has on their hands.

Not true. We still have options on Beckham, therefore. he could have, and should have, been sent down in May.

I remember The Jays sending down Halladay to A for over a full year to completely reconstruct his pitching motion. This was after he had been up for nearly 2 years and had at first enjoyed some success.

The Sox completely ****ed this up, by refusing to recognize that Gordon would not snap out of his funk. That his problems are deeper than that.

If he doesn't do something drastic over the winter, he might be a non-tender candidate come prior to the 2013 season.

KMcMahon817
08-19-2011, 05:18 PM
I don't really know about that.

Here's Gordon in 2009: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=5029157

Here's Gordon in 2011: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17481711

I really don't see much mechanical difference. People have noted that Beckham's swing has been long and slow for some time now, as far back as when he was raking in the Arizona Fall League.

I noticed that he holds his bat and hands in a much different position now then he did in 09. His bat is straight up with his hands starting letter high. In 2009 the bat swayed back and forth with the latter almost pointing towards the pitcher. I am no hitting coach, but I thought the two looked considerably different.

slavko
08-19-2011, 05:25 PM
It was ridiculous to let Beckham bat in the eighth. I'm more than tired of seeing such stupidity from Guillen.

Beckham isn't even a Major Leaguer. He's completely lost at the plate. What's most disconcerting is his approach is worse than ever. He's starting with the end of his bat pointing toward the pitcher. With his buggywhip swing, it takes him forever to get the bat through the hitting zone. He has very little chance to be successful swinging like that. His swing is so slow and long that part of the reason he's swinging at garbage is that he has to commit early just to get the bat through the zone.

This is the second straight season that Beckham's been bad offensively. Given that, it's unbelievable that his mechanical approach remains so poor. You would think by now that some corrections would have been made.

I noticed that he holds his bat and hands in a much different position now then he did in 09. His bat is straight up with his hands starting letter high. In 2009 the bat swayed back and forth with the latter almost pointing towards the pitcher. I am no hitting coach, but I thought the two looked considerably different.

One of these posts is wrong.

Zakath
08-19-2011, 06:21 PM
There's a fourth possibility. Perhaps Walker has diagnosed Beckham's problem, but doesn't know how to communicate it to Beckham in such a way that Beckham makes the necessary changes. Sometimes a different voice is needed.

Off-season, send him to Scottsdale, AZ to that nice 16,000-sq ft. (it was 16K, right?) house and tell him to become Paulie's shadow.