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View Full Version : We Gotta Re-sign Buehrle Right?


ChicagoG19
08-11-2011, 10:14 PM
The stat I heard tonight just reminded of how effective he still is. He has given up 3 runs or less in his last 18 starts. He has at least 10 wins in 11 straight years. I don't want to have to go through the offseason wondering if Buehrle will return. Please just get an extension done soon Kenny.

thomas35forever
08-11-2011, 10:19 PM
Hope so. Don't let him go to St. Louis till he's at the back end of his career.

HangWiffum
08-11-2011, 10:31 PM
WAY too much bad money on this team. I really want them to resign him. If they do i'd assume it's a backloaded contract until Jake/Rios are gone.

kevingrt
08-11-2011, 10:51 PM
WAY too much bad money on this team. I really want them to resign him. If they do i'd assume it's a backloaded contract until Jake/Rios are gone.

Exactly. Mark is going to have to take some concessions if he wants to stay.

Nelfox02
08-11-2011, 10:55 PM
unless he gives us a generous discount I dont see it.......anticipating massive salary shed this offseason unless this team finds a way turn it on finally and take this division and make at least a little noise in Oct

soxfanreggie
08-11-2011, 11:01 PM
WAY too much bad money on this team. I really want them to resign him. If they do i'd assume it's a backloaded contract until Jake/Rios are gone.

I don't forsee him signing a deal that long-term where we're talking backloading. I doubt he is still talking about retirement after this season, but I could only see him going after a 2 or 3 year deal - only more if they are player options for 2014 or 2014 and 2015.

amsteel
08-11-2011, 11:16 PM
If the Cards go after and get Pujols, they can't have too much money left. Would Buerhle go anywhere else?

shes
08-11-2011, 11:46 PM
As long as we don't overpay him. Anything more than maybe 10M a year is just too much for a fringe All-Star pitcher.

cards press box
08-11-2011, 11:56 PM
WAY too much bad money on this team. I really want them to resign him. If they do i'd assume it's a backloaded contract until Jake/Rios are gone.

I don't know if there are as many bad contracts on this team as people think. For starters, Linebrink and Teahen are gone, off the Sox' books. Rios was great last year and, lately, he has looked a lot better. As for Peavy, he will probably not be at full strength until 2012. He has shown flashes of brillance, though, like his last start against Minnesota. I would not write him off as a sunk cost yet. As for Adam Dunn, I just don't know what to think. Dunn turns 32 this year and I suspect that he needs to change his offseason routine to keep playing pro baseball at a high level in his early 30's. That's just a guess, of course, but I am hopeful that Dunn will rebound nicely in 2012.

I don't forsee him signing a deal that long-term where we're talking backloading. I doubt he is still talking about retirement after this season, but I could only see him going after a 2 or 3 year deal - only more if they are player options for 2014 or 2014 and 2015.

It could be a 2-3 year deal but who knows, Buerhle might want to keep his options for retirement open. If so, he could probably go the Andy Pettitte route and sign with the Sox for a year at a time.

PalehosePlanet
08-12-2011, 12:17 AM
Well, well, well...what a difference three months make. The way he pitched in the second half last year, and April of this year, a lot of conversations on this board centered around how overpaid and under performing he was and that he was untradeable because of his big contract. He was being paid ace money but was not an ace.

Question: Would he accept, rock solid #3 type money, which is what he's been more or less for the better part of his current contract, or do we pay him ace money again? At his best, he's a #2 type, at his worst he's a #4, innings eater type. We know if he finishes the year strong, he'll want what he's making this year again next year -- 14 million. Is he worth it?

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-12-2011, 03:16 AM
I really hope they do. He is by far my favorite player on the team and it would hurt seeing him leave. He's so damn consistent too. I'd love to keep him around to help Sale learn a thing or too if/when he goes into the rotation.

FielderJones
08-12-2011, 09:36 AM
It would be a crime, and PR disaster, if the money being paid to non-contributing stiffs prevented re-signing the pitcher that has contributed the most to this team.

Domeshot17
08-12-2011, 09:55 AM
I would love to see him back, but he simply isn't worth 14-15 a year anymore. If he wants more than 10 per, let him walk.

doublem23
08-12-2011, 09:57 AM
I would love to see him back, but he simply isn't worth 14-15 a year anymore. If he wants more than 10 per, let him walk.

200 IP of sub-1.200 WHIP is only worth $10 M?

kaufsox
08-12-2011, 10:01 AM
as the years go by I'm less and less impressed with Kenny Williams, but one thing he seems to do well is keep his guys around through extensions. I hope he can still do it, but Mark may just be a little too expensive.

Domeshot17
08-12-2011, 10:11 AM
200 IP of sub-1.200 WHIP is only worth $10 M?

I am confused, the last year Buehrle has 200 IP and a sub 1.2 WHIP was 2005. He has bounced between 1.2 and 1.4 for years.

Chez
08-12-2011, 10:31 AM
JR seems to have an [understandable] emotional attachment to Buehrle, AJ and Paulie. I think if Buehrle wants to stay beyond 2011, JR will pay him. I hope he's back because he is really fun to watch.

Tragg
08-12-2011, 10:41 AM
Buehrle is every bit the Sox "icon" as Konerko is, and is worthy of at least that much respect in contract negotiations.
The Sox, however, have always preferred hard throwers* to soft tossers like MB, so I really wonder if we'll sign him. It's really hard to find a more consistent #2 than Mark Buehrle.

*(Koch over Foulke; MacDougal, Jackson, Javy, e.g.)

Brewski
08-12-2011, 10:46 AM
Not only do you have to know when to sell, you have to be detached from emotions and willing to take criticism from those who are not. Tough job, that GM'ing.

This is why you need a farm system that produces a flow of pitching talent. You say we have pitching talent even if we don't have a farm system? Tough job, that GM'ing.

Hitmen77
08-12-2011, 10:51 AM
unless he gives us a generous discount I dont see it.......anticipating massive salary shed this offseason unless this team finds a way turn it on finally and take this division and make at least a little noise in Oct

Exactly. Buehrle's is one of the few high-priced contracts that the Sox can unload/eliminate. They're stuck paying $43M to Rios, Dunn and Peavy alone and season ticket renewals will probably take another hit after this frustrating season.

Mark had seemed to be fading somewhat the last couple of years. Not that I wanted him to continue to fade, but that was the scenario where I could see him returning under a much reduced salary. But he's back on track this year and I have my doubts that the Sox will match what he'll be worth on the open market.

Well, well, well...what a difference three months make. The way he pitched in the second half last year, and April of this year, a lot of conversations on this board centered around how overpaid and under performing he was and that he was untradeable because of his big contract. He was being paid ace money but was not an ace.

Question: Would he accept, rock solid #3 type money, which is what he's been more or less for the better part of his current contract, or do we pay him ace money again? At his best, he's a #2 type, at his worst he's a #4, innings eater type. We know if he finishes the year strong, he'll want what he's making this year again next year -- 14 million. Is he worth it?

Yep. The talk was very respectful because everyone loves Buehrle, but nonetheless, many (including me) wondered if his best years were behind him. It just had seemed to me that he wasn't the same pitcher he was 5 years ago anymore. I had thought that the $14M he was earning this year was more than he was worth, but overall worth the price of locking him up after 2007.

But now we ask ourselves the same question. Even if the Sox weren't saddled with a bunch of unloadable bad contracts, what should they commit to Buehrle in the next contract and for how many years? If they lock him up to a high salary, will he continue to excel as he has this year, or will he revert back to his performance of the last couple of years (which wasn't terrible, but wasn't exactly an all-star performance).?

soulfly
08-12-2011, 10:56 AM
Would three years and around 33 mil be enough to get it done and not really hamper the team? Hopefully it's somewhere in that range and they can get it done.

doublem23
08-12-2011, 11:13 AM
Buehrle is every bit the Sox "icon" as Konerko is, and is worthy of at least that much respect in contract negotiations.
The Sox, however, have always preferred hard throwers* to soft tossers like MB, so I really wonder if we'll sign him. It's really hard to find a more consistent #2 than Mark Buehrle.

*(Koch over Foulke; MacDougal, Jackson, Javy, e.g.)

That is absolutely false, in fact, I'd say the Sox are one of the teams least infutuated with power arms, especially for SP.

Lip Man 1
08-12-2011, 11:55 AM
I suspect JR is going to get personally involved in this one like he did apparently with the AJ negotiations last off season.

Lip

Domeshot17
08-12-2011, 12:39 PM
That is absolutely false, in fact, I'd say the Sox are one of the teams least infutuated with power arms, especially for SP.

I would agree and disagree. We seem to go location/movement arms in the rotation, and power obsession in the bullpen.

soxfanreggie
08-12-2011, 12:48 PM
JR seems to have an [understandable] emotional attachment to Buehrle, AJ and Paulie. I think if Buehrle wants to stay beyond 2011, JR will pay him. I hope he's back because he is really fun to watch.

Or is the thing with AJ partly that we don't have an in-house replacement nor have we brought in a FA replacement?

I have been very happy with what we have gotten from AJ for the money we've spent on him, but we're going to need to find a replacement to bring in for 2013 and beyond.

I'd say with MB, offer 1-year $12/13 mil or 2-years $22-25 mil and go from there (going with numbers similar to PK). If he wants more security, that can be an avenue. If we want him to know that he's welcome back in 2014 and 2015, add player options. If he's going to be seeking say...$15 millon a year for 3+ years, then we have some decisions to make. (I doubt he's angling for that)

Domeshot17
08-12-2011, 12:52 PM
Or is the thing with AJ partly that we don't have an in-house replacement nor have we brought in a FA replacement?

I have been very happy with what we have gotten from AJ for the money we've spent on him, but we're going to need to find a replacement to bring in for 2013 and beyond.

I'd say with MB, offer 1-year $12/13 mil or 2-years $22-25 mil and go from there (going with numbers similar to PK). If he wants more security, that can be an avenue. If we want him to know that he's welcome back in 2014 and 2015, add player options. If he's going to be seeking say...$15 millon a year for 3+ years, then we have some decisions to make. (I doubt he's angling for that)

I would personally let him have control. 2 years 20 mil (10 per) with 3 more years, all player options, at 9 mil per. He can walk away whenever he wants.

shes
08-12-2011, 02:00 PM
I think if we do make the playoffs, and definitely if we win a series or two (:rolling: ), management will do all they can to get Buehrle back. Letting your best pitcher (and arguably most popular player) go strictly for financial reasons when you're on the brink of true contention would be a public relations nightmare.

gobears1987
08-12-2011, 04:15 PM
If Mark is gone this year because the team cannot afford to pay him, then Kenny better be following out the door. That is all I have to say. I was very vocal in 2007 when it looked like we were going to lose him and I'll be vocal now. Buehrle is far and away my favorite current player and is approaching Frank as my favorite all-time. That being said, I think JR will make sure Buehrle stays.

Tragg
08-12-2011, 04:59 PM
That is absolutely false, in fact, I'd say the Sox are one of the teams least infutuated with power arms, especially for SP.

Indeed, as per Koch v. Foulke, Danks v. McCarthy, Jackson v. Hudson,the love of Javy.......

Soxfest
08-12-2011, 05:05 PM
3/30 Million Max MB can take it or leave it.

russ99
08-12-2011, 06:11 PM
I suspect JR is going to get personally involved in this one like he did apparently with the AJ negotiations last off season.

Lip

A.J. took a pay cut in order to come back, so will Mark.

I suspect that Mark's $15M trade trigger for next year may put a monkey wrench into that, i.e. establishing value for next year in the current contract.

doublem23
08-12-2011, 07:07 PM
Indeed, as per Koch v. Foulke, Danks v. McCarthy, Jackson v. Hudson,the love of Javy.......

Wow, so you've come up with 4 whole examples in the KW era.

While you're correct the Koch/Foulke deal brought the Sox a fireballer for a soft tosser, there was a lot more to that deal. Pretty much every one of Foulke's numbers were trending down after the 2002 season, while Koch was coming off one of his best years. Plus, Foulke's contract was rising, the Sox saved almost $2 M alone on the closer swap, not to mention that deal also brought us Neal Cotts.

Danks/McCarthy... Well this is the first time I have ever heard anyone categorize John Danks as a power pitcher, so I will have to just pass on that.

Jackson and Hudson... Their fastballs are within 1 MPH of each other and they both throw it roughly at the same rate.

I'll admit the Sox have taken some risks on power arms in the bullpen that haven't panned out, but for the most part, especially at SP, they have committed to more finesse pitchers who will pitch to contact, not power throwing strikeout guys.

doublem23
08-13-2011, 06:59 AM
If Mark is gone this year because the team cannot afford to pay him, then Kenny better be following out the door. That is all I have to say. I was very vocal in 2007 when it looked like we were going to lose him and I'll be vocal now. Buehrle is far and away my favorite current player and is approaching Frank as my favorite all-time. That being said, I think JR will make sure Buehrle stays.

Yeah but weren't you also telling us all how the Sox needed to lock up Greg Walker to a long extension after the 1st week of the season? Maybe... let the baseball people do their jobs and tone down the ultimatums.

blandman
08-13-2011, 07:32 AM
Wow, so you've come up with 4 whole examples in the KW era.

While you're correct the Koch/Foulke deal brought the Sox a fireballer for a soft tosser, there was a lot more to that deal. Pretty much every one of Foulke's numbers were trending down after the 2002 season, while Koch was coming off one of his best years. Plus, Foulke's contract was rising, the Sox saved almost $2 M alone on the closer swap, not to mention that deal also brought us Neal Cotts.

Danks/McCarthy... Well this is the first time I have ever heard anyone categorize John Danks as a power pitcher, so I will have to just pass on that.

Jackson and Hudson... Their fastballs are within 1 MPH of each other and they both throw it roughly at the same rate.

I'll admit the Sox have taken some risks on power arms in the bullpen that haven't panned out, but for the most part, especially at SP, they have committed to more finesse pitchers who will pitch to contact, not power throwing strikeout guys.

Not to take away from your point, because I think you're right, but the low end of Jackson's fastball is faster than the high end of Hudson's. Jackson's mid-90's with movement, Hudson is low 90's as a straight four-seamer. There's a world of difference there.

24thStFan
08-13-2011, 08:07 AM
I'd say with MB, offer 1-year $12/13 mil or 2-years $22-25 mil and go from there (going with numbers similar to PK). If he wants more security, that can be an avenue. If we want him to know that he's welcome back in 2014 and 2015, add player options. If he's going to be seeking say...$15 millon a year for 3+ years, then we have some decisions to make. (I doubt he's angling for that)

This

doublem23
08-13-2011, 09:40 AM
Not to take away from your point, because I think you're right, but the low end of Jackson's fastball is faster than the high end of Hudson's. Jackson's mid-90's with movement, Hudson is low 90's as a straight four-seamer. There's a world of difference there.

Fangraphs has Hudson's ave. FB pitch speed at 93 MPH for his career, 93.4 for 2011. Jackon's FB sits at 94.5 MPH for both his career and 2011 season.

I won't argue that Jackson's FB is more effective and has more movement, I just think it's wrong to categorize Hudson as a soft-tossing finesse pitcher.