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View Full Version : 3/4's through his first full season whats the consensus on Chris Sale?


ghostface36
08-06-2011, 04:04 AM
starter of the future? premiere closer of the future? what do you think will happen?

Frater Perdurabo
08-06-2011, 07:06 AM
Re-sign Buehrle and keep Sale in the pen, at least for 2012.

dickallen15
08-06-2011, 07:15 AM
I think he'll be starting next season, and if he stays healthy an ace in a couple years.

hawkjt
08-06-2011, 07:41 AM
Leave him alone.
Rotation next year: Buehrle,Peavy,Floyd,Danks,Humber or Stewart if one of the others gets moved.
Bullpen: Sergio,Sale,Crain,Ohman,and some youngsters.

Trade Thornton,let Frasor walk.

tstrike2000
08-06-2011, 09:03 AM
re-sign buehrle and keep sale in the pen, at least for 2012.

+1

soxinem1
08-06-2011, 09:23 AM
Ozzie has been stretching him out in many recent appearances, and he seems to do well in extended outings.

I for one believed Sale projected as a reliever, but now that he has added some bulk he just might be a starter.

I remember when Buehrle projected as a reliever at one time, then he was thrown in the rotation by default and never left.

With his arm, I say give him a shot, especially if MB is not retained.

sox1970
08-06-2011, 09:25 AM
Trade Floyd in the offseason.

Re-sign Buehrle.

Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Humber, Sale

Hopefully Stewart will be good enough to be long relief and get some spot starts to spell Sale, who shouldn't exceed 165 innings next year.

soxinem1
08-06-2011, 09:34 AM
Trade Floyd in the offseason.

Re-sign Buehrle.

Buehrle, Peavy, Danks, Humber, Sale

Hopefully Stewart will be good enough to be long relief and get some spot starts to spell Sale, who shouldn't exceed 165 innings next year.

I agree with Leo Mazzone that pitchers need to throw, so I'm not sure why he should be held to such a low total if he indeed becomes a starter.

For once I'd like to see the White Sox develop a player by just putting them out there and letting them play.

Then again, I am old school. I think pitch counts should be banned, unless a pitcher is coming back from an injury. Sale does not have a pop corn arm like Jim Parque or Mike Sirotka.

sox1970
08-06-2011, 09:43 AM
I agree with Leo Mazzone that pitchers need to throw, so I'm not sure why he should be held to such a low total if he indeed becomes a starter.

Then again, I am old school. I think pitch counts should be banned, unless a pitcher is coming back from an injury. Sale does not have a pop corn arm like Jim Parque or Mike Sirotka.

Normally I would agree with you, but by the time they get to spring training next year, Sale wouldn't have been a starter for almost 2 years. Considering that, and also his frame, I wouldn't want them to just throw him out there for 32 starts and 210 innings.

Like the 6-man rotation or not, it's helped Buehrle this year, I believe. I'm not saying they should do that all season next year, but when they have a stretch of 26 games in 27 days, that would be a good time to inject a 6th starter for a couple starts to help Buehrle and Sale....assuming both will be there next year.

ghostface36
08-06-2011, 11:06 AM
i'm unsure to be honest. His recent stretch of 16 innings in 10 games with 7 hits, 2 ER given up and 17 strikeout's to 3 walks (should be 2)
he look's like hes got starting stuff

Lorenzo Barcelo
08-06-2011, 11:07 AM
His "inverted W" would give me fear as a starter.

ghostface36
08-06-2011, 11:08 AM
His "inverted W" would give me fear as a starter.
can you drop a photo of the part of his release you're talking about?

Zisk77
08-06-2011, 11:23 AM
His "inverted W" would give me fear as a starter.

Its his cursive "E" that gives me pause.

Lorenzo Barcelo
08-06-2011, 11:24 AM
can you drop a photo of the part of his release you're talking about?

Preseason article with some people commenting below.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-chris-sale-conundrum/

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=chris+sale+inverted+w&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1429&bih=760&tbm=isch&tbnid=XOc62CYYTSIMBM:&imgrefurl=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/615448-mlb-prospect-power-rankings-is-bryce-harper-the-best-crown-jewel-in-baseball&docid=OqfMByVpjWhfoM&w=350&h=259&ei=Pmo9TrOaB-H-sQK88-kF&zoom=1

Lorenzo Barcelo
08-06-2011, 11:25 AM
can you drop a photo of the part of his release you're talking about?

http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/chris-sale-throwing.jpg?w=320

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/17/white-sox-decide-to-keep-chris-sale-in-the-bullpen/

ghostface36
08-06-2011, 11:35 AM
http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/chris-sale-throwing.jpg?w=320

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/17/white-sox-decide-to-keep-chris-sale-in-the-bullpen/
thanks, yeah they need to fix that or he's gonna put way too much stress on shoulder and elbow

doublem23
08-06-2011, 12:52 PM
thanks, yeah they need to fix that or he's gonna put way too much stress on shoulder and elbow

I don't think you can just make a guy change the way he's pitched for his whole life. Sure, there are subtle mechanical changes that can be made, but altering his entire delivery... Does that ever work? At some point you just have to live with the type of players you have, maximize their potential or move on in a new direction.

Sale might never be able to shoulder the load of a starter... But if he can be a lights out reliever, it's OK.

shes
08-06-2011, 01:01 PM
I agree with Leo Mazzone that pitchers need to throw, so I'm not sure why he should be held to such a low total if he indeed becomes a starter.

For once I'd like to see the White Sox develop a player by just putting them out there and letting them play.

Then again, I am old school. I think pitch counts should be banned, unless a pitcher is coming back from an injury. Sale does not have a pop corn arm like Jim Parque or Mike Sirotka.

History tends to show that relievers/young pitchers who log big innings their first year plugged into the rotation are much more likely to get hurt/struggle the following year. Might as well keep him on a leash next year, then set him free in 2013.

DirtySox
08-06-2011, 01:03 PM
Hopefully he's starting in some capacity next year while the organization is rebuilding a bit.

PalehosePlanet
08-06-2011, 01:33 PM
Hopefully he's starting in some capacity next year while the organization is rebuilding a bit.

Many of us have talked about this before: He should go to AA or perhaps AAA for a couple of months to acclimate to being a starter.

Knowing the Sox though, if he does start next year it will be at the major league level.

JB98
08-06-2011, 01:34 PM
I don't think you can just make a guy change the way he's pitched for his whole life. Sure, there are subtle mechanical changes that can be made, but altering his entire delivery... Does that ever work? At some point you just have to live with the type of players you have, maximize their potential or move on in a new direction.

Sale might never be able to shoulder the load of a starter... But if he can be a lights out reliever, it's OK.

The Sox tried to rebuild Peavy's delivery at the start of the 2010 season to make him less injury-prone. He pitched ineffectively with the new delivery, so he scrapped it and went back to his old ways. He then pitched effectively until suffering a serious injury in July.

For power pitchers, in particular, I think it's hard to alter an entire delivery without losing velocity and/or bite on the breaking ball.

DirtySox
08-06-2011, 01:36 PM
Many of us have talked about this before: He should go to AA or perhaps AAA for a couple of months to acclimate to being a starter.

Agree fully and I've been a proponent of it myself.

kufram
08-06-2011, 01:44 PM
Isn't an inverted W just an M?

DirtySox
08-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Isn't an inverted W just an M?

Yes. And the opinion that it is an absolute precursor to injury is a very divisive topic. You can find substantial substance on both ends of the spectrum. That's why it's comical to see people who have just recently become aware of the term start crying out "Tommy John!"

Also worth noting that Kenny indeed wants Sale starting. There was an article just yesterday reiterating it as the plan, though Ozzie still wants him in the bullpen.

FielderJones
08-06-2011, 03:10 PM
Isn't an inverted W just an M?

No. The stems of the M are vertical in most fonts. The stems of the W are oblique. Sale's forearms are at an oblique angle to the ground.

SOXSINCE'70
08-06-2011, 03:29 PM
I remember when Buehrle projected as a reliever at one time, then he was thrown in the rotation by default and never left.

:XL
"And to think,it was because I was on the DL in April,2001 that Mark became a starter".

WhiteSox5187
08-06-2011, 04:10 PM
Sale has never started a game in the professional ranks, if he is going to be made into a starter he better go down to the minors to get stretched out.

doublem23
08-06-2011, 04:14 PM
Sale has never started a game in the professional ranks, if he is going to be made into a starter he better go down to the minors to get stretched out.

That's what the off-season is for

WhiteSox5187
08-06-2011, 04:16 PM
That's what the off-season is for

You want him to pitch winter ball? I can not think of a guy who never made a start in any level of professional baseball being turned into a successful starter. There are lots of guys who have gone from the pen into the rotation but they all had a lot of starts in the minors.

doublem23
08-06-2011, 04:25 PM
You want him to pitch winter ball? I can not think of a guy who never made a start in any level of professional baseball being turned into a successful starter. There are lots of guys who have gone from the pen into the rotation but they all had a lot of starts in the minors.

http://www.b105.com/blog/media/mike.leake_.jpg http://www.peoplequiz.com/images/bios/Jim-Abbott.jpg-2652.jpg

I will trust the opinion of the Sox's pitching coaching staff

soxinem1
08-06-2011, 08:50 PM
:XL
"And to think,it was because I was on the DL in April,2001 that Mark became a starter".

Not true. Wells started Opening Day in 2001, and Buehrle was the #4 man in the rotation out of the box.

I believe Danny Wright came up due to Wells' inability to put down the dessert trays. It was James Baldwin who was out early.

soxfanatlanta
08-06-2011, 09:18 PM
I say start him until we can trade him for proven players, before his arm falls off.

Seriously, I'd like to see him work a year in Charlotte, or Birmingham before he is brought into the rotation full time. I do not want to see him in the pen next year.

Lip Man 1
08-06-2011, 09:23 PM
As I recall, the Sox were dealing with numerous injuries to the pitching staff because of the 2000 season. Parque, Baldwin, Wunsch, Howry were all either hurt or nursing off season surgeries. (I believe there were others pitchers hurt as well) Manager Gandhi decided (correctly) to slowly let them work their way into regular season health.

Because of that he was short starting pitchers in the spring and gave Buehrle some chances. If not for the injuries Mark was slated for bullpen duty at best.

Luck was involved and he took full advantage of it.

Lip

Zisk77
08-06-2011, 09:57 PM
thanks, yeah they need to fix that or he's gonna put way too much stress on shoulder and elbow


Consider this about the inverted "w" and arm strain. That is a concern with pitchers who through with a more conventional arm slot. I would imagine Sale's arm slot would alleviate at least some of the strain the "w" would put on the shoulder/elbow.

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-06-2011, 10:57 PM
http://nbchardballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/chris-sale-throwing.jpg?w=320

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/17/white-sox-decide-to-keep-chris-sale-in-the-bullpen/

Yep... The cursed inverted W. I'd love to see what Sale could do as a starter, because his stuff is nasty at times, but the fact he's done so well out of the pen makes me want to keep him there just to avoid any problems that could come from this.