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TomBradley72
08-05-2011, 08:43 AM
What changes to you think need to be made?

A. Cavatica
08-05-2011, 08:46 AM
Immediately
1. Manager (I'm assuming most of the coaches go at the same time)

End of season
2. GM
3. Increase scouting and development budget

New regime
4. Players

Bucky F. Dent
08-05-2011, 08:48 AM
Burn it down!

Frater Perdurabo
08-05-2011, 08:52 AM
Start simple. New manager and coaches. See if new coaches can "coach up" the existing talent. Cooper stays.

Scottiehaswheels
08-05-2011, 08:53 AM
Immediately
1. Manager (I'm assuming most of the coaches go at the same time)

End of season
2. GM
3. Increase scouting and development budget

New regime
4. Players5. Move to Indianapolis :D:

Madvora
08-05-2011, 09:08 AM
Seriously, the future doesn't even look good unless they tear this mess apart. KW and Guillen have to go. This ridiculous fear of the Twins has to go.

g0g0
08-05-2011, 09:08 AM
Start with the title of this thread and then work your way down booting the GM/Manager. Time to get some new blood in there. Blow it up! *makes blowing up sounds*:darkclouds:

jdm2662
08-05-2011, 09:10 AM
My only request is to bring in some outside people. No more people from the good ol boys club.

Rocky Soprano
08-05-2011, 09:19 AM
Ozzie should be the first to go.
If they let go of KW then let go of Hahn as well, I rather see a complete cleaning of the front office instead of a half-assed one.
I agree with the sentiment of brining in a new manager that has NO ties to this organization.

TomBradley72
08-05-2011, 09:34 AM
I'm very worried about JR's ability to do this- since firing Roland Hemond (still pisses me off, 87 wins in '82, 99 wins in '83, 85 wins in '85)- his "overhauls" have led to:


From Hemond/LaRussa to Harrelson/LaRussa-Fregosi
From Harrelson/Fregosi to Himes/Fregosi-Torborg
From Himes/Torborg to Schueler/Torborg-Lemont-Bevington-Manuel
From Schueler/Manuel to Williams/Manuel-Guillen
I'm not really sure if he'll be able to pull this off- and we've never been so saddled with long term contracts (Dunn/Rios/Peavy) combined with a very weak farm system.

kaufsox
08-05-2011, 10:27 AM
Said it somewhere else, but Ozzie goes, give KW a shot with a guy of his choosing and see what happens. I don't want to say how long, because people will throw stuff at me.

kaufsox
08-05-2011, 10:27 AM
My only request is to bring in some outside people. No more people from the good ol boys club.

amen. So sick of that, in all sports, truly.

24thStFan
08-05-2011, 10:31 AM
I think we need a complete overhaul. That said, does anyone know how much money is owed to Ozzie and KW if they are both fired at the end of the season?

TheOldRoman
08-05-2011, 10:36 AM
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com/filmimages/firewalker-box.jpg

russ99
08-05-2011, 10:37 AM
Said it somewhere else, but Ozzie goes, give KW a shot with a guy of his choosing and see what happens. I don't want to say how long, because people will throw stuff at me.

Funny, but I'm the opposite. KW made this mess with taking too many chances and poor talent evaluation, so he gets the axe first. Then bring in a outside young proactive GM (not Hahn or any other of Jerry's network) to clean up Kenny's mess. The steroid era is over, and the Sox need to roll with the changes, not use the same formula.

For the last year on his contract, let Ozzie fire any coaches he's not allowed to fire now. If it doesn't work then let the new GM hire his guy next season or offseason.

Sadly, it looks like the Sox need clean house completely from Jerry selling the team down to replacing the scouting staff for the culture of the organization to change the way some fans want.

My fear is Kenny keeping his job, and Ozzie getting replaced with either LaRussa or a no-name cheap coaching hire that Jerry's done so often with the Sox and Bulls. That would be continuing the backslide by only changing the face on the field and not anything else, which would not move the team forward.

Begin the flaming...

24thStFan
08-05-2011, 10:42 AM
Funny, but I'm the opposite. KW made this mess with taking too many chances and poor talent evaluation, so he gets the axe first. Then bring in a outside young proactive GM (not Hahn or any other of Jerry's network) to clean up Kenny's mess.

For the last year on his contract, let Ozzie fire any coaches he's not allowed to fire now. If it doesn't work then let the new GM hire his guy next season or offseason.

Sadly, it looks like the Sox need clean house completely from Jerry selling the team down to the scouting staff for the culture of the organization to change the way some fans want.

I agree that KW has done a really poor job of evlauating talent and needs to go. But if we keep Ozzie and bring in a new GM, I'm afraid Ozzie will feel like he "won" and will be impossible to work with and even more arrogant.

blandman
08-05-2011, 10:45 AM
Rebuild with a complete youth movement. Give Kenny a chance to go that route, he's never had to.

Ozzie would probably have more effect with non-veterans, I'd keep him around too.

enurb
08-05-2011, 10:50 AM
I want to explain my "stay the course vote" as I see it is the only one.

This team sucks so bad, and is so compromised for the future with the contracts of Dunn and Rios, that I simply want to force KW and Ozzie to watch it for the next 4 years. They created this misery, now they can choke on it. Would be too kind to them to terminate them and allow them to go elsewhere to start fresh.

Scottiehaswheels
08-05-2011, 11:01 AM
I want to explain my "stay the course vote" as I see it is the only one.

This team sucks so bad, and is so compromised for the future with the contracts of Dunn and Rios, that I simply want to force KW and Ozzie to watch it for the next 4 years. They created this misery, now they can choke on it. Would be too kind to them to terminate them and allow them to go elsewhere to start fresh.Sort of with you but I don,t want to have to endure this that long either.

tstrike2000
08-05-2011, 11:12 AM
The dust has collected and settled after several years now of mediocre to bad baseball. Time to clean the house, top to bottom.

Rocky Soprano
08-05-2011, 11:17 AM
Funny, but I'm the opposite. KW made this mess with taking too many chances and poor talent evaluation, so he gets the axe first. Then bring in a outside young proactive GM (not Hahn or any other of Jerry's network) to clean up Kenny's mess. The steroid era is over, and the Sox need to roll with the changes, not use the same formula.

For the last year on his contract, let Ozzie fire any coaches he's not allowed to fire now. If it doesn't work then let the new GM hire his guy next season or offseason.

Sadly, it looks like the Sox need clean house completely from Jerry selling the team down to replacing the scouting staff for the culture of the organization to change the way some fans want.

My fear is Kenny keeping his job, and Ozzie getting replaced with either LaRussa or a no-name cheap coaching hire that Jerry's done so often with the Sox and Bulls. That would be continuing the backslide by only changing the face on the field and not anything else, which would not move the team forward.

Begin the flaming...

I'm just wondering if it has ever been reported that Ozzie can not fire any of HIS coaches?

Dibbs
08-05-2011, 11:26 AM
Funny, but I'm the opposite. KW made this mess with taking too many chances and poor talent evaluation, so he gets the axe first. Then bring in a outside young proactive GM (not Hahn or any other of Jerry's network) to clean up Kenny's mess. The steroid era is over, and the Sox need to roll with the changes, not use the same formula.

For the last year on his contract, let Ozzie fire any coaches he's not allowed to fire now. If it doesn't work then let the new GM hire his guy next season or offseason.

Sadly, it looks like the Sox need clean house completely from Jerry selling the team down to replacing the scouting staff for the culture of the organization to change the way some fans want.

My fear is Kenny keeping his job, and Ozzie getting replaced with either LaRussa or a no-name cheap coaching hire that Jerry's done so often with the Sox and Bulls. That would be continuing the backslide by only changing the face on the field and not anything else, which would not move the team forward.

Begin the flaming...

If you were running the Sox, I'd probably just become a Cubs fan.

asindc
08-05-2011, 11:31 AM
I'm just wondering if it has ever been reported that Ozzie can not fire any of HIS coaches?

There you go, asking a difficult question...

chisoxfanatic
08-05-2011, 11:56 AM
I want a new manager, general manager, and hitting coach. Plus, get rid of Rios.

SI1020
08-05-2011, 11:59 AM
I want to explain my "stay the course vote" as I see it is the only one.

This team sucks so bad, and is so compromised for the future with the contracts of Dunn and Rios, that I simply want to force KW and Ozzie to watch it for the next 4 years. They created this misery, now they can choke on it. Would be too kind to them to terminate them and allow them to go elsewhere to start fresh. It might be justice of a sort but it could also kill the franchise.

Gavin
08-05-2011, 12:10 PM
Fire everything.

blandman
08-05-2011, 12:18 PM
The people most responsible are not a part of this poll. I feel like this entire thread is catering to those who want to simply blame management. Why even have a poll, it's clearly a thread just to rant on a very specific take.

TomBradley72
08-05-2011, 12:28 PM
The people most responsible are not a part of this poll. I feel like this entire thread is catering to those who want to simply blame management. Why even have a poll, it's clearly a thread just to rant on a very specific take.

2 of the options are "no change to management" and "other"- I guess I could have added all the different combinations of firing coaches, dumping $15M contracts, etc.-

asindc
08-05-2011, 12:30 PM
2 of the options are "no change to management" and "other"- I guess I could have added all the different combinations of firing coaches, dumping $15M contracts, etc.-

You did fine.

Crestani
08-05-2011, 12:30 PM
Boy I had to think for about two seconds before i answered this tough question!! (Both)

Lip Man 1
08-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Kenny has told the media on more than one occasion that Ozzie hires and fires his coaches. The decision rests with him.

Kenny stays out of that area. (Which I find strange but it is what it is...)

Lip

kittle42
08-05-2011, 12:47 PM
Kenny had told the media on more than one occasion that Ozzie hires and fires his coaches. The decision rests with him.

Kenny stays out of that area. (Which I find strange but it is what it is...)

I don't really believe much of what the Sox say about anything these days.

I am so sad that I feel like my favorite sports team generally is full of crap and doesn't care about its fans.

wassagstdu
08-05-2011, 12:51 PM
If both Ozzie and KW go, I may stay. If Ozzie goes and KW stays, I am out of here -- especially if Ozzie is replaced by LaRussa the Enabler. If KW goes and Ozzie stays, I am happy, though I do recognize that that is extremely unlikely.

KW (a) assembled the current monstrosity, and (b) left a smoldering ruin in the farm system. He needs to go. I do not see that Ozzie has played any part in what has gone wrong. On the contrary he has seemed to be pulling in a different direction. On the other hand, giving a new GM his choice of manager would seem to be sound.

Rocky Soprano
08-05-2011, 12:58 PM
If both Ozzie and KW go, I may stay. If Ozzie goes and KW stays, I am out of here -- especially if Ozzie is replaced by LaRussa the Enabler. If KW goes and Ozzie stays, I am happy, though I do recognize that that is extremely unlikely.

KW (a) assembled the current monstrosity, and (b) left a smoldering ruin in the farm system. He needs to go. I do not see that Ozzie has played any part in what has gone wrong. On the contrary he has seemed to be pulling in a different direction. On the other hand, giving a new GM his choice of manager would seem to be sound.

Get your eyes checked.

LITTLE NELL
08-05-2011, 01:05 PM
The whole regime needs to go, KW, Ozzie, his coaches and most of the players. I'm tired of watching the same crap year after year.

TheOldRoman
08-05-2011, 01:12 PM
If both Ozzie and KW go, I may stay. If Ozzie goes and KW stays, I am out of here -- especially if Ozzie is replaced by LaRussa the Enabler. If KW goes and Ozzie stays, I am happy, though I do recognize that that is extremely unlikely.

KW (a) assembled the current monstrosity, and (b) left a smoldering ruin in the farm system. He needs to go. I do not see that Ozzie has played any part in what has gone wrong. On the contrary he has seemed to be pulling in a different direction. On the other hand, giving a new GM his choice of manager would seem to be sound.Kenny leaving and Ozzie staying would be by far the worst outcome. If Ozzie isn't kept in check by a GM who built a world championship team, he is going to run all over a rookie GM. I would be happy if Kenny left, but Ozzie should absoultely go first (well, after Greg Walker).

KW (a) assembled an extremely talented team which had underperformed because of Ozzie's hitting coach and has been at times grossly mismanaged by Ozzie, and (b) admittedly has produced a bad farm system, but has given us Beckham (currently being ruined by Walker), Hudson (everyone's favorite player EVAR) and Viciedo (soon to be ruined by Walker). Kenny has to answer for the poor farm system. However, with the coaching the young hitters receive when they come up and the atmosphere they come into, these "can't miss" prospects other teams produce would be hitting in the low-mid 200s on the Sox and be called busts. Anyway, Ozzie has cost this team several games this year for astonishingly bad decisions. Furthermore, he sets the attitude in the clubhouse and helps instil the fear of the Twins into the players. Better managers would say "**** the Twins. They suck, we are better than them. Let's go kick their asses" (to the players, not the media). Ozzie, meanwhile, praises the Twins, implants the fright of the Twins into the players, and then oversees the team year in, year out as they inexplicably have horrible records against the Twins. Remember Ozzie saying in 2008 "we better have a four game lead going into Minnesota in September because they're going to sweep us"? He is the biggest reason the Sox have handed the division to less talented Twins teams in 2006 and 2009 (last year the Twins were arguably better). He is the reason players are pissed off about his degenerate son insulting players' wives and spilling clubhouse secrets. He has had a negative impact on the team and clubhouse over the last several years. Firing KW and giving Ozzie free reign would be doomsday.

Smokey Burg
08-05-2011, 01:14 PM
Can we get a DH that could hit his weight? It is ludicrous to believe that the Sox can win with a DH thats hitting right around .200. Last year Kotasy and this year, Dunn. I'm sure that both of these guys would have a problem hitting a large moth with a fly swatter. For as effective as Dunn's been this year, might as well let the pitchers bat.

#1swisher
08-05-2011, 01:20 PM
Alden Gonzalez writes about two managers, different styles.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110804&content_id=22745530&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

JB98
08-05-2011, 01:34 PM
Kenny and Ozzie are no longer on the same page. They can't BOTH stay.

If one of them has to stay, I would pick Kenny. But I think it's time for change from top to bottom.

PaleHoser
08-05-2011, 01:35 PM
I voted to fire Ozzie. IMO, he should have been fired on the off-day before the 10-game West Coast trip back in May. It would have given the new manager and coaching staff an opportunity to evaluate what they had in a low spotlight scenario with the late start games and get things sorted out before returning home.

IMO, a manager has three responsibilities:

1. Create a positive environment.
2. Get players prepared to play.
3. Use your players in a manner to maximize their opportunities to succeed.

IMO, Ozzie has failed at all three. He has for the last two years.

These guys haven't forgotten how to play baseball. I think fresh sets of eyes and different voices on a day-to-day basis is the place to start.

blandman
08-05-2011, 02:08 PM
2 of the options are "no change to management" and "other"- I guess I could have added all the different combinations of firing coaches, dumping $15M contracts, etc.-

There are veterans with track records of great production having historically bad seasons. You might want to add them to the list, as opposed to a catch all "everything else". They're the one's mostly to blame.

Hitmen77
08-05-2011, 02:23 PM
So far, the response to this people is just about unanimous thinking that at least one of KW and Ozzie need to go.

The only vote to keep both of them is because that person wanted to have KW and Ozzie both stuck with the mess they created.

I'm willing to bet, though, that come opening day 2012, both Ozzie and Kenny will still be here.

kittle42
08-05-2011, 02:24 PM
I'm willing to bet, though, that come opening day 2012, both Ozzie and Kenny will still be here.

Then I hope for an MLB lockout...

TheOldRoman
08-05-2011, 02:29 PM
I'm willing to bet, though, that come opening day 2012, both Ozzie and Kenny will still be here.Normally I would agree with you, but something seems different. Some of the decisions Ozzie has made are not just poor baseball decisions, but so bad it almost seems like he is trying to sabotage the team. He has been making a lot of "I don't give a ****" decisions of late. I wouldn't be surprised if he already knows he is on his way to Miami next year.

102605
08-05-2011, 02:34 PM
This needs to be multiple choice and have way more poll options.

Jerko
08-05-2011, 03:03 PM
I don't really believe much of what the Sox say about anything these days.

I am so sad that I feel like my favorite sports team generally is full of crap and doesn't care about its fans.


I never do this.......but THIS

TomBradley72
08-05-2011, 03:13 PM
There are veterans with track records of great production having historically bad seasons. You might want to add them to the list, as opposed to a catch all "everything else". They're the one's mostly to blame.

And what can we do about them? Release them and eat the contracts? Find someone who will take on the contracts?

The survey isn't about "blame" it's about what changes need to be made- I didn't see anything we can really do about Dunn or Rios.

russ99
08-06-2011, 10:42 AM
Kenny has told the media on more than one occasion that Ozzie hires and fires his coaches. The decision rests with him.

Kenny stays out of that area. (Which I find strange but it is what it is...)

Lip

Yes, that has been widely reported, but Jerry calls the shots.

IMO, Walker would have been fired last year if Ozzie really has that power.

Rocky Soprano
08-06-2011, 11:16 AM
Yes, that has been widely reported, but Jerry calls the shots.

IMO, Walker would have been fired last year if Ozzie really has that power.

If that were the case, how do you explain this:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/cowley/6533571-452/he-isnt-taking-a-walk.html

I can't wait to see how you spin that.

soxinem1
08-06-2011, 12:02 PM
Immediately
1. Manager (I'm assuming most of the coaches go at the same time)

End of season
2. GM
3. Increase scouting and development budget

New regime
4. Players

And put Danks/Floyd on the market with the stipulation that the team who successfully aquires one of them take Rios at full price.

rpmorri
08-06-2011, 02:42 PM
Can't say I really care what happens to Guillen. Yeah, he's made some boneheaded decisions that have cost this team the last couple of years. But I'm not pulling for this team while Williams is still around. It's bad enough when you sabotage your current season, a new GM is going to have to rebuild the farm system. From scratch. Top to bottom. That's going to take years.

Sabotaging the current season is one thing, that's on the manager. Sabotaging your future as well? Nope, that's the GM. Ride his ass out on a rail.

SI1020
08-06-2011, 03:19 PM
And what can we do about them? Release them and eat the contracts? Find someone who will take on the contracts?

The survey isn't about "blame" it's about what changes need to be made- I didn't see anything we can really do about Dunn or Rios. It's easy. Just don't play them. Where is rule that says if you blew your money now you must continue to lose games with the stiffs you blew the money on?

TomBradley72
08-06-2011, 07:21 PM
It's easy. Just don't play them. Where is rule that says if you blew your money now you must continue to lose games with the stiffs you blew the money on?

I guess- and maybe De Aza is ok in CF for the balance of this season- but putting Dunn and Rios on the bench and replacing their time with a mix of Vizquel/Lillibridge/De Aza isn't really going to change anything in 2011 or 2012.

Lip Man 1
08-06-2011, 10:44 PM
Kenny may be starting to feel heat from somewhere in the organization.

I was told by a good source he told Chicago Tribune Live! he would no longer be a guest after Bob Foltman (a noted Sox fan at the Tribune and a guy who is not controversial) made the comment a few weeks back on it that Kenny is a "hypocrite." (I did not see the show so I don't know the context the statement was made in)

Kenny got royally pissed and supposedly told people that "Foltman can kiss my black ass..." (direct quote)

Again I don't know the context the statement was made in but the reaction (if true) seems out of proportion to it. That tells me the stress is getting to Kenny and that stress may be coming from a lot of places not just internally (as in himself...)

We know that JR isn't happy (based on Peggy Kusinski's camera crew accidentally getting video of JR upset down on the field at his team's performance before a home game right before the All Star break.)

Lip

CWSpalehoseCWS
08-06-2011, 11:52 PM
I think it's obvious the first thing that needs to happen is get a new manager. Love him or hate him, Guillen is at that point were the time has come to part ways. 2005 was great, but it's time for a change. I'd give KW until the end of next season before deciding to replace him. I'd like to see how KW and the new manager work together before looking for a replacement for KW. KW has had an awful last couple years, and some bad trades that didn't work in the Sox favor, but he still has a pretty decent track record under his belt. I'd see if he can maybe re-find his old self, and if not, then look for a replacement and blow up the team.