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View Full Version : *Official* Aug. 1 Loss to Yankees Postgame Thread


ShooterMcGavin
08-01-2011, 09:43 PM
Sox lose 3-2.

Mariano earns his 587th career save.

RKMeibalane
08-01-2011, 09:44 PM
From the Game thread. I didn't post it in time.

I was just saying the same thing. He checked his swing on two fastballs right over the plate, then waved at a slider out of the zone.

This in between bull**** has gone on long enough with him. When he sees a fastball, he's gotta attack it.

That's the problem, though. Dunn's bat is so slow that I'm not sure if he can attack the fastball anymore. I've long suspected that Dunn has scraped by on natural ability, without really understanding how to read pitchers or having a knowledge of the strike zone. It didn't matter as much early in his career because he was one of the strongest players in the National League, and his bat speed was good enough to hit the fastball. Now, however, his bat has slowed, and Dunn no longer can count on his superior strength to aid him at the plate. He's completely overmatched.

Frank Thomas, by contrast, understood pitchers and the strike zone. That's why, even though he lost batspeed as his career progressed, he remained a dangerous hitter. By 2003, he could no longer consistently hit pitchers' pitches, but he knew how to work the count so that they would throw him his pitch, and he would crush it.

Soxfest
08-01-2011, 09:45 PM
54th time Sox has scored 3 runs or less yet nobody has lost a job yet!:angry:

amsteel
08-01-2011, 09:45 PM
Not PHing for Dunn in 8th was a white flag

Jurr
08-01-2011, 09:46 PM
Kenny Williams can apply for a front office job at my office in November....though he'd probably order high priced suction tips.

arKnaD7
08-01-2011, 09:46 PM
I'm glad football is back

billyvsox
08-01-2011, 09:46 PM
Remember Friday night when we beat Boston and got to .500. Ah, the good old days. Then comes three lefty starters and Dunn still hits clean up and we are now fading once again.

So close and yet so far far away. More good news. This pathetic home stand leads us right into Minnesota and likely 4th place

Soxman219
08-01-2011, 09:46 PM
Another day, another game the Sox score 3 runs or less.

Aesero
08-01-2011, 09:47 PM
What new. Get runners on just so we get excited. Line drive double plays from bad base running and a popped up bunt.

That's White Sox baseball. Still dreaming of seeing them score more than 3 in a game.

balke
08-01-2011, 09:48 PM
Sox lost to Sabathia? Didn't see that coming. It's almost as if this is a below .500 team that you shouldn't expect to win against good teams.

JB98
08-01-2011, 09:49 PM
Why was Cervelli so pumped up after the final out? :scratch: Holding the Sox to two runs is no accomplishment. Far lesser pitchers than Sabathia and Rivera have stifled this offense.

This was another night where Sox pitchers executed. They held a powerful Yankee offense to three runs.

This was another night where the Sox offensive execution was brutal. Ten hits, but only two runs, because of horrific baserunning and misery with RISP.

It's a pretty bad feeling being behind one run in the late innings and feeling like you've got no prayer.

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2011, 09:49 PM
Not PHing for Dunn in 8th was a white flag

Now 3-for-77 against LHP with 35Ks?:scratch:

DSpivack
08-01-2011, 09:50 PM
I'm glad football is back

Me, too, at least we have a competent GM there.

Oh, wait...

Hunker down
08-01-2011, 09:52 PM
Didn't watch the game, hard to justify investing any more time on these guys. They just don't seam to care. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Soxfest
08-01-2011, 09:52 PM
me, too, at least we have a competent gm there.

Oh, wait...
+1

WhiteSoxOnly
08-01-2011, 09:52 PM
And it's only August 1st.

amsteel
08-01-2011, 09:53 PM
This was the recipe for the 2011 Sox minus an 0-fer from Rios

Good on Jake for making past that 75 pitch barrier.

VMSNS
08-01-2011, 09:53 PM
What the hell was with Cervelli's excessive celebration on the last out? Did the Yankees just win Game 7 of the World Series?

Anyway, this one had all the traits of a typical Sox loss: Starting pitching wasn't great, but good enough to win. Multiple mental mistakes, especially on the basepaths. Stranding runners. Obligatory HR to trick you into thinking "We're still in it!". Bad plate discipline and/or poor approach at the plate.

Nothing new to see here, folks.

...did anyone else think Stone was making a dig at Ozzie earlier in the broadcast?

"The reason why Martin isn't starting behind the plate tonight is because he's 4-for-32 again Peavy. That'll definitely get you benched. Well...in most cases it will. Typically..."

**Hawk and Stone giggle incessantly for a few moments**

JB98
08-01-2011, 09:56 PM
Now 3-for-77 against LHP with 35Ks?:scratch:

Yet he still bats fourth against LHP. It's ridiculous.

palehozenychicty
08-01-2011, 09:58 PM
Glad I didn't follow this one. The NBA needs to hurry up and get talks going.

russ99
08-01-2011, 10:00 PM
Dunn only left 2 runners on base, 1 in scoring position. What about the other 7 RISPs?

10 hits against Sabathia should have been more than 2 runs. People love to finger-point, but the rest of the lineup's not getting it done either.

Back to good ole' "wait for the HR" White Sox baseball.

Aesero
08-01-2011, 10:00 PM
What the hell was with Cervelli's excessive celebration on the last out? Did the Yankees just win Game 7 of the World Series?

The best one was on the Dunn strikeout. Such an accomplishment!

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Dunn only left 2 runners on base, 1 in scoring position. What about the other 7 RISPs?

10 hits against Sabathia should have been more than 2 runs. People love to finger-point, but the rest of the lineup's not getting it done either.

Back to good ole' wait for the HR White Sox baseball.

OK, Morel doesn't appear to have covered himself in glory. But I guess that's why he bats 9th. And has played only 25 games. And makes less than $500K.

JB98
08-01-2011, 10:03 PM
Dunn only left 2 runners on base, 1 in scoring position. What about the other 7 RISPs?

10 hits against Sabathia should have been more than 2 runs. People love to finger-point, but the rest of the lineup's not getting it done either.

Back to good ole' "wait for the HR" White Sox baseball.

The Sox had eight nice little singles tonight. They had nine nice little singles yesterday. A lot of good that did.

This team has only two players who hit HRs, and one of them missed tonight's game with injury.

Nelfox02
08-01-2011, 10:03 PM
This was the recipe for the 2011 Sox minus an 0-fer from Rios

Good on Jake for making past that 75 pitch barrier.


that was really the only thing that happened tonight that was not per the normal script of a sox clunker. But peavy, and the rest of our pitching staff need to understand they can allow a run and be okay, 2 at the very most (and even then danger) but 3 or more? THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

Soxman219
08-01-2011, 10:04 PM
Well, at least we have football coming up! Oh wait, I forgot we have a circus going on over there too!

Well, we got the NBA coming up! Watching D-Rose is always great. Oh wait, there's a lockout over there!

So I guess that leaves the Hawks. Bring on the hockey season!

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2011, 10:05 PM
Yet he still bats fourth against LHP. It's ridiculous.

Who defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

I get, alas, why he has to be in the lineup. Like you, I don't get why he has to bat fourth. Especially against left-handed pitching.

Nelfox02
08-01-2011, 10:05 PM
Why was Cervelli so pumped up after the final out? :scratch: Holding the Sox to two runs is no accomplishment. Far lesser pitchers than Sabathia and Rivera have stifled this offense.

This was another night where Sox pitchers executed. They held a powerful Yankee offense to three runs.

This was another night where the Sox offensive execution was brutal. Ten hits, but only two runs, because of horrific baserunning and misery with RISP.

It's a pretty bad feeling being behind one run in the late innings and feeling like you've got no prayer.


at least you still make it to the late innings......I pretty much thought we had no prayer after we went down 2 in the first.......

CHISOXFAN13
08-01-2011, 10:05 PM
Dunn only left 2 runners on base, 1 in scoring position. What about the other 7 RISPs?

10 hits against Sabathia should have been more than 2 runs. People love to finger-point, but the rest of the lineup's not getting it done either.

Back to good ole' "wait for the HR" White Sox baseball.

First Pierre now Dunn.

When do you start sticking up for Rios' hapless ass?

Dunn makes $14 million a year and is on target to have the worst qualifying batting average in the history of the game. Sorry it's so difficult to figure out why he gets the wrath.

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2011, 10:08 PM
First Pierre now Dunn.

When do you start sticking up for Rios' hapless ass?

Dunn makes $14 million a year and is on target to have the worst qualifying batting average in the history of the game. Sorry it's so difficult to figure out why he gets the wrath.

You know, Dunn's batting average and salary might not bother me if he were to develop a curve ball . . .

captain54
08-01-2011, 10:09 PM
Nothing new to see here, folks.

...did anyone else think Stone was making a dig at Ozzie earlier in the broadcast?

"The reason why Martin isn't starting behind the plate tonight is because he's 4-for-32 again Peavy. That'll definitely get you benched. Well...in most cases it will. Typically..."

**Hawk and Stone giggle incessantly for a few moments**

I think it was a VERY obvious dig at Ozzie.

I don't think I've ever heard Hawk as disgusted as he's been this season..or maybe he's just getting old

I've never been a big Ozzie basher, but it seems like Ozzie is just grasping at straws. Unless there are other factors at work preventing him from doing what he thinks needs to be done to right the ship.

And answer me this....

Why is it so hard for Morel and others in the lineup (listening Adam Dunn?) to shorten up and try to punch a hole through the defense and scratch a couple of runs across? Instead, we see long loping swings and popouts, flyouts, and K's...

I would say let's try a new hitting coach but it doesnt' even seem worth the effort to even be concerned about this anymore.

ElevenUp
08-01-2011, 10:10 PM
Different month, same big crapfest from this offense. I don't care whose it is, but someone's head needs to roll.

RKMeibalane
08-01-2011, 10:13 PM
I think it was a VERY obvious dig at Ozzie.

I don't think I've ever heard Hawk as disgusted as he's been this season..or maybe he's just getting old

I've never been a big Ozzie basher, but it seems like Ozzie is just grasping at straws. Unless there are other factors at work preventing him from doing what he thinks needs to be done to right the ship.

You just touched on something important, captain. Hawk is, for all intents and purposes, a mouthpiece for Jerry Reinsdorf. If Hawk is speaking it, it's a good bet the Chairman is thinking it. It happened with Bevington. It happened with Manuel. And now it's happening with Ozzie Guillen.

Ozzie may be in Miami sooner than any of us realizes, because if Hawk Harrelson is taking shots at him from the booth, it is bad news for Ozzie Guillen.

Goes in here...

:reinsy

"Let 'em have it, Hawk!"

...and comes out here...

:hawk

"Ozzie Guillen sucks!"

amsteel
08-01-2011, 10:18 PM
I do not see Dunn on the White Sox next year.

This seems to be the ideal case of addition by subtraction. I sincerely doubt Dunn's talent has totally dried up, so it has to be mental or *ahem* coaching related. Unless he leads the Sox to a very successful season next year he's never gonna be in the fans good graces, and is this team going anywhere in the near future anyways?

I can see some other team taking on the contract, with the Sox paying a chunk, and letting some competant hitting coach help him re-find his swing. I would love to see him succeed, especially in Sox uniform, but I think it's safe to say no one is ever going to accept him as a contributing member on the Sox, unless he plays above his career average next year as much as he's below it this year. If it's partially mental, there is no way he's gonna get better with the toxic atmosphere he's surrounded with in CHI.

He seems like a good guy, and the potential to be a good player, but I don't see it happening with the Sox.


edit/post script: Rios on the other hand is a different case: he's ****ed, we're ****ed, and no one in their right mind would take on that contract.

DSpivack
08-01-2011, 10:20 PM
I do not see Dunn on the White Sox next year.

This seems to be the ideal case of addition by subtraction. I sincerely doubt Dunn's talent has totally dried up, so it has to be mental or *ahem* coaching related. Unless he leads the Sox to a very successful season next year he's never gonna be in the fans good graces, and is this team going anywhere in the near future anyways?

I can see some other team taking on the contract, with the Sox paying a chunk, and letting some competant hitting coach help him re-find his swing. I would love to see him succeed, especially in Sox uniform, but I think it's safe to say no one is ever going to accept him as a contributing member on the Sox, unless he plays above his career average next year as much as he's below it this year. If it's partially mental, there is no way he's gonna get better with the toxic atmosphere he's surrounded with in CHI.

He seems like a good guy, and the potential to be a good player, but I don't see it happening with the Sox.

I don't see any team wanting him, nor do I see Reinsdorf eating that big of a contract. Has he ever done before?

SBSoxFan
08-01-2011, 10:23 PM
I think it was a VERY obvious dig at Ozzie.


Why is it so hard for Morel and others in the lineup (listening Adam Dunn?) to shorten up and try to punch a hole through the defense and scratch a couple of runs across? Instead, we see long loping swings and popouts, flyouts, and K's...



:scratch: Morel hit 3 line drives tonight.

SoxSpeed22
08-01-2011, 10:31 PM
Wasn't expecting much out of this one, but Peavy battled out there.

captain54
08-01-2011, 10:32 PM
:scratch: Morel hit 3 line drives tonight.

Morel hit a routine pop out with a long loping swing in the 7th with runners on 1st and 3rd and 2 outs, when a single would have tied the game.

doublem23
08-01-2011, 10:33 PM
Morel hit a routine pop out with a long loping swing in the 7th with runners on 1st and 3rd and 2 outs, when a single would have tied the game.

Yawn, if it were easy, everyone would do it.

amsteel
08-01-2011, 10:37 PM
I don't see any team wanting him, nor do I see Reinsdorf eating that big of a contract. Has he ever done before?

Yah, it's a long shot, but I could see some team picking him up as a 'project' if the price is right. Don't know if the Sox have ever eaten a big contract before, but this is a pretty unprecedented case.

You know there has to be some hitting coach out there licking his chops because he's sees some flaw in Dunn's mechanics.

captain54
08-01-2011, 10:38 PM
You just touched on something important, captain. Hawk is, for all intents and purposes, a mouthpiece for Jerry Reinsdorf. If Hawk is speaking it, it's a good bet the Chairman is thinking it. It happened with Bevington. It happened with Manuel. And now it's happening with Ozzie Guillen.

"

People take for granted the fact that Hawk has been around this regime since 1982, and that he convinced JR that JR's good buddy, Tony LaRussa, needed to be let go. No small feat

If Hawk is publicly taking veiled shots at Ozzie, rest assured, the seed has already been planted in JR's head.

fram40
08-01-2011, 10:45 PM
Morel hit a routine pop out with a long loping swing in the 7th with runners on 1st and 3rd and 2 outs, when a single would have tied the game.

and it was to right field. it seems like a shot at Morel that he doesn't deserve

this is the most frustrating, disappointing, annoying Sox team I can remember.

kittle42
08-01-2011, 10:47 PM
Dunn only left 2 runners on base, 1 in scoring position. What about the other 7 RISPs?

10 hits against Sabathia should have been more than 2 runs. People love to finger-point, but the rest of the lineup's not getting it done either.

Back to good ole' "wait for the HR" White Sox baseball.

Now you're defending DUNN to defend Ozzie? The man of possibly the WORST OFFENSIVE SEASON EVER?

Christ, russ, this has to just be a character you're playing at this point.

captain54
08-01-2011, 10:48 PM
Yawn, if it were easy, everyone would do it.

I guess the fact that other players on other teams manage to figure out how to get it done is irrelevant to you, eh?

PalehosePlanet
08-01-2011, 10:49 PM
Morel hit a routine pop out with a long loping swing in the 7th with runners on 1st and 3rd and 2 outs, when a single would have tied the game.

Are you talking about the line out to right on a fastball on the outside corner at the knees? That was not a pop-out.

russ99
08-01-2011, 10:52 PM
First Pierre now Dunn.

When do you start sticking up for Rios' hapless ass?

Dunn makes $14 million a year and is on target to have the worst qualifying batting average in the history of the game. Sorry it's so difficult to figure out why he gets the wrath.

I am not sticking up for Adam Dunn one iota. I'm just saying the lack of offense is roster-wide, and not to be pinned on one player. With Konerko out, this becomes much more obvious.

What I am sick of is people thinking that shuffling these guys around the order will make any difference - or that the Sox are just going to bench both of Dunn and Rios anytime soon. We're stuck with these guys - for years. They're going to have to turn it around, or we're in big trouble.

The whining around here about things you can't change is ridiculous, I though our fanbase was tougher than this.

Is this a Sox board or a Cubs board?

shingo10
08-01-2011, 10:53 PM
People take for granted the fact that Hawk has been around this regime since 1982, and that he convinced JR that JR's good buddy, Tony LaRussa, needed to be let go. No small feat

If Hawk is publicly taking veiled shots at Ozzie, rest assured, the seed has already been planted in JR's head.


Wasn't Stone the one who took the shot at Oz? Unless I misread.

captain54
08-01-2011, 10:53 PM
and it was to right field. it seems like a shot at Morel that he doesn't deserve

.

Now we're starting to feel sorry for and defend players for not driving a runner in from third base, in the late innings in a tie ball game.

what a completely lost mess of a season this has been

captain54
08-01-2011, 10:55 PM
Wasn't Stone the one who took the shot at Oz? Unless I misread.

Stone got the ball rolling with his comment and then it was dropped until Hawk chimed in ... with "YOU WOULD THINK" (he would be benched)

captain54
08-01-2011, 10:58 PM
Are you talking about the line out to right on a fastball on the outside corner at the knees? That was not a pop-out.

we're watching two different games them because the Yankees right fielder waited underneath the ball to catch it.

Lip Man 1
08-01-2011, 10:59 PM
Isn't it typical White Sox to go in the tank as soon as the trade deadline is passed? If they did this last week Kenny might have been able to ship some guys out to try to get a head start on 2012, but nope...

Numbers are getting comically bad:

5th game in a row with three runs or less...
12 total runs in that span...
55th time in 107 games with three runs or less...
14th game lost when allowing three runs or less...

Plus you have Oney acting like an idiot again.

Throw in stranded base runners, terrible fundamentals and stupid baserunning and you've got a typical 2011 White Sox game.

Lip

doublem23
08-01-2011, 11:03 PM
I guess the fact that other players on other teams manage to figure out how to get it done is irrelevant to you, eh?

Are you not aware of the fact that Brent Morel is a bad hitter regardless of situation?

Also, the American League average with RISP is to fail 3 of every 4 times.... So... :dunno:

The 2011 Sox aren't losing because Brent Morel didn't drive a run home tonight

Lip Man 1
08-01-2011, 11:09 PM
A.J. used it tonight...the dreaded word!

"I mean tip your hat to the other guy."

:tongue:

Lip

The Milkman
08-01-2011, 11:11 PM
Ozzie said the exact same thing in the post-game presser.

shingo10
08-01-2011, 11:11 PM
Isn't it typical White Sox to go in the tank as soon as the trade deadline is passed? If they did this last week Kenny might have been able to ship some guys out to try to get a head start on 2012, but nope...

Numbers are getting comically bad:

5th game in a row with three runs or less...
12 total runs in that span...
55th time in 107 games with three runs or less...
14th game lost when allowing three runs or less...

Plus you have Oney acting like an idiot again.

Throw in stranded base runners, terrible fundamentals and stupid baserunning and you've got a typical 2011 White Sox game.

Lip

What did Oney do now? More twitter stuff?

Johnny Mostil
08-01-2011, 11:12 PM
I am not sticking up for Adam Dunn one iota. I'm just saying the lack of offense is roster-wide, and not to be pinned on one player. With Konerko out, this becomes much more obvious.

What I am sick of is people thinking that shuffling these guys around the order will make any difference - or that the Sox are just going to bench both of Dunn and Rios anytime soon. We're stuck with these guys - for years. They're going to have to turn it around, or we're in big trouble.

The whining around here about things you can't change is ridiculous, I though our fanbase was tougher than this.

Is this a Sox board or a Cubs board?

You know, I don't think it would make much difference. But it sure would be nice to find out. Dunn has batted 3rd, 4th, or 5th in 72 of the 86 games he's started. He also batted 7th in 11 games (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=dunnad01&year=&t=b#lineu)--alas, none in more than a month now--and did OK with that spot. (Career splits here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=dunnad01&year=Career&t=b#lineu).)

Would he do OK again there? I've no idea. But do we really need to see him bat 3rd, 4th, or 5th again for a while?

PalehosePlanet
08-01-2011, 11:14 PM
A.J. used it tonight...the dreaded word!

"I mean tip your hat to the other guy."

:tongue:

Lip

CC should tip his hat to AJ for getting doubled up on a ball that was hit ten feet in front of him and getting CC out of a jam.

doublem23
08-01-2011, 11:14 PM
Ozzie said the exact same thing in the post-game presser.

So did Bill Melton during Sox Postgame Live.

captain54
08-01-2011, 11:26 PM
What did Oney do now? More twitter stuff?

Mark Teahan tweeted something about the Guillen clan. Oney picked up on it and it started a whole thing. Teahan has since deleted his tweet

Lip Man 1
08-01-2011, 11:26 PM
"The basics of the game, we're not too good about it" - Ozzie Guillen to Mark Gonzales (talking about Lillibridge's missed throw to the cut off man that let the first run score...)

Forgive me in advance but

WHAT THE **** DO THEY WORK ON IN SPRING TRAINING OZZIE?

Thank you.

This comment could come from 2010 or 2009 or 2008 or 2007.....I'm simply amazed that Ozzie just doesn't "get it" does he?

What he's doing (or not doing) in spring training IS NOT WORKING.

ALL these players from all these different organizations can't ALL possibly be this 'baseball stupid' in my opinion. There's more going on here and to me that is Ozzie and his coaching staff.

ACCOUNTABILITY friends and neighbors. When the G.M. and field manager have none why should the players give a **** about doing things the right way.

Lip

captain54
08-01-2011, 11:37 PM
Also, the American League average with RISP is to fail 3 of every 4 times.... So... :dunno:



that's some creative stat maneuvering, pal.

The White Sox are in the bottom three in the AL with RISP. In other words, among the worst. But since they are only about 10 points, or slightly under the league average of .250, that's really not a biggie, in your book...

whatever..

RKMeibalane
08-01-2011, 11:40 PM
"The basics of the game, we're not too good about it" - Ozzie Guillen to Mark Gonzales (talking about Lillibridge's missed throw to the cut off man that let the first run score...)

Forgive me in advance but

WHAT THE **** DO THEY WORK ON IN SPRING TRAINING OZZIE?

Thank you.

This comment could come from 2010 or 2009 or 2008 or 2007.....I'm simply amazed that Ozzie just doesn't "get it" does he?

What he's doing (or not doing) in spring training IS NOT WORKING.

ALL these players from all these different organizations can't ALL possibly be this 'baseball stupid' in my opinion. There's more going on here and to me that is Ozzie and his coaching staff.

ACCOUNTABILITY friends and neighbors. When the G.M. and field manager have none why should the players give a **** about doing things the right way.

Lip

Agreed. Ozzie continually rips into his players, but who does he think is responsible for their inability to grasp the basics of baseball? Furthermore, when he doesn't bench players for loafing (Rios) or for sub-par performance (Dunn, Rios), why does he expect anything to change with regards to what's happening on the field. The players have long since figured out that they won't be held accountable for poor play, so they've decided to put forth minimal effort without fear for the consequences.

amsteel
08-01-2011, 11:42 PM
A little fun with numbers:

Right now the Sox Pythagorean W/L matches the actual record, meaning the Sox are not under- or over-performing (or unlucky/lucky) based on their runs scored/allowed.

Of course we all know, the offense is dreadfully underproductive, so where would we be if the offense was league average in scoring (League Avg. 4.34 runs/game, Sox 3.93 r/g)?

Assuming the same amount of 'luck' (+/- actual record vs Pyth. record) the Sox should be 57-50 with an average offense assuming the same defense/pitching.

It's safe the say we though the Sox would be a top 1/3 in AL offense this year, not just average. A r/g rate of 4.88 would put them 4th in the AL behind BOS, NYY, TEX, and ahead of TOR. The 4th best run production the AL results in a 63-44 record.

Lots of assumptions here, but the conclusion is an average offense would probably be good for 1st in the ALC.

Please point out an bogus assumptions or math errors.

doublem23
08-01-2011, 11:56 PM
They work on getting ready for the season. Nobody is out there doing Little League drills, come on. If you don't know how to hit the cut off man by the time you're in AA, you just don't know how to do it. Brent Lillibridge just isn't that good of a baseball player. Guys that don't establish themselves as MLB sorta regulars until they're 27 usually aren't.

captain54
08-01-2011, 11:59 PM
It's safe the say we though the Sox would be a top 1/3 in AL offense this year, not just average..

On paper maybe, but the game isn't played on paper it's played on the field... that's how Kenny williams got himself in this mess, he counted on
these players statistically performing and kept his fingers crossed.

And of course, that's what most fans do.... although we really don't have anything at stake, financially at least.

The organization has lost the luster of 05' and has proved itself mediocre.
Most other divisions in baseball, and the season would have been over long ago with our record. The chickens have come home to roost.

The Sox are 4 1/2 games back and it seems like 40 1/2.. .500 seems like a lovely distant vision. Interesting how it's August 1st and I've started to countdown the season to where the offseason will begin where you start to wonder if and what changes may occur

doublem23
08-02-2011, 12:07 AM
that's some creative stat maneuvering, pal.

The White Sox are in the bottom three in the AL with RISP. In other words, among the worst. But since they are only about 10 points, or slightly under the league average of .250, that's really not a biggie, in your book...

whatever..

You're free to pretend that every other team in the Majors hits 1.000 with men in scoring position all you like, I am just pointing out that your little rants are clouded in some ridiculous fantasy land. The AL average with RISP is .255 (entering tonight). That is just a fact. Top it off that Brent Morel is just a bad hitter by any metric and I don't know what you were expecting.

The Sox aren't losing because Brent Morel's not driving in runs. Pretty much anyone with an elementary understanding of baseball knew coming into this year that he was here for his defense and anything we got from his bat was gravy. The Sox are losing because 2 of the big bats they counted on are hitting a combined .100-something.

Please keep trying, though. The only way I've been able to be a mod here for as long as I have is that I really love watching people post out their ass nights after a tough loss. This is great reading material. Cracks my **** up.

doublem23
08-02-2011, 12:09 AM
On paper maybe, but the game isn't played on paper it's played on the field... that's how Kenny williams got himself in this mess, he counted on
these players statistically performing and kept his fingers crossed.


Ha ha ha, please tell me what you think other teams are doing.

I get that people didn't like the Adam Dunn signing, I understand that there are some posters that don't like home runs and wish baseball was still played like it was back in the 50s or whatever, but absolutely no one saw him falling off a cliff like this, fan, executive, player, etc. No one.

amsteel
08-02-2011, 12:10 AM
...he counted on
these players statistically performing and kept his fingers crossed.

True, it would be a better estimate if the Sox r/g rate based on Dunn and Rios performing at career averages. You would think that if Dunn & Rios were performing 'averagely' it would improve the players around them in the order.

I think it's fair to say that GMs assume in a worst case scenario that players will perform at career averages, with some tail off due to age.

Soxman219
08-02-2011, 12:12 AM
Ozzie said the exact same thing in the post-game presser.
:tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:

captain54
08-02-2011, 12:13 AM
The Sox aren't losing because Brent Morel's not driving in runs. Pretty much anyone with an elementary understanding of baseball knew coming into this year that he was here for his defense and anything we got from his bat was gravy. The Sox are losing because 2 of the big bats they counted on are hitting a combined .100-something.



I never said Brent Morels inability to get a big hit tonite or get a big hit any other nite is the reason the Sox are in the tank, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about.



Please keep trying, though. The only way I've been able to be a mod here for as long as I have is that I really love watching people post out their ass nights after a tough loss. This is great reading material. Cracks my **** up.

I was gonna say almost the same thing. It's entertaining for me as well to see you go after people that have legitimate gripes about the Sox, go after them trying to come off as some expert, which clearly you are not... very entertaining

Nellie_Fox
08-02-2011, 12:17 AM
Who defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?This cliché gets trotted out pretty near every damn day. I'm no Dunn supporter, but this statement is nonsense in baseball. Players do the same thing with different results on a daily basis. Teams do the same thing with different results on a daily basis.

I understand that there are some posters that don't like home runs and wish baseball was still played like it was back in the 50s or whatever...I'm okay with home runs. I don't like high-strikeout guys. He's the highest of the high. Still on a pace for a possible 240 of them.

captain54
08-02-2011, 12:17 AM
Ha ha ha, please tell me what you think other teams are doing.

.

Do you watch baseball? Last I checked, there were any number of teams in MLB that are quite successful this year.

captain54
08-02-2011, 12:25 AM
I think it's fair to say that GMs assume in a worst case scenario that players will perform at career averages, with some tail off due to age.

how many players have the Sox picked up since 05' that have performed below their career average in some respect?

amsteel
08-02-2011, 12:29 AM
This cliché gets trotted out pretty near every damn day. I'm no Dunn supporter, but this statement is nonsense in baseball. Players do the same thing with different results on a daily basis. Teams do the same thing with different results on a daily basis.

Daily basis, yes, because of small sample size. Long term basis, no. The sample size for baseball over a season(s) is so large that statistical trends can be derived. Brent Lillibridge isn't going to hit 15 HRs the rest of the year. Juan Pierre is going to have a low OPS. Mark Buehrle is gonna pitch a ton of innings. AJ Pierzynski isn't going to throw out 50% of runners. Certain stats can be predicted over the long term. Could Lillibridge hit 2HR tomorrow? Sure he could, but odds are he won't.

Which is what makes Dunn's case all the more puzzling.

Bucky F. Dent
08-02-2011, 07:01 AM
One positive that you can draw from this frustrating year; Chris Sale is turning out to be a very nice pitcher. If we can get Danks head back together, and he looks to be headed that way, with Floyd and Humber (and the new kids from the Blue Jays) we can have a very good young starting rotation.

russ99
08-02-2011, 07:24 AM
Ha ha ha, please tell me what you think other teams are doing.

I get that people didn't like the Adam Dunn signing, I understand that there are some posters that don't like home runs and wish baseball was still played like it was back in the 50s or whatever, but absolutely no one saw him falling off a cliff like this, fan, executive, player, etc. No one.

I don't think anyone dislikes home runs, but any successful team needs to score in many ways. We haven't scored many runs in the last week outside of the homer, especially in the losses.

Also, all big league teams have at least one regular player who's not performing up to expectations - look at Crawford with the Red Sox.

Even the Yankees don't have 9 guys playing up to expectations at all times, it's a tough game.

slavko
08-02-2011, 08:39 AM
Daily basis, yes, because of small sample size. Long term basis, no. The sample size for baseball over a season(s) is so large that statistical trends can be derived. Brent Lillibridge isn't going to hit 15 HRs the rest of the year. Juan Pierre is going to have a low OPS. Mark Buehrle is gonna pitch a ton of innings. AJ Pierzynski isn't going to throw out 50% of runners. Certain stats can be predicted over the long term. Could Lillibridge hit 2HR tomorrow? Sure he could, but odds are he won't.

Which is what makes Dunn's case all the more puzzling.

You can take it farther than a season, the Law of Averages that is. Sometimes a career year that seems out of place lasts a full season and it can't be attributed to steroids. Look at the next season of the BA leader for the past 50 years. Frequently a reversion takes place. But Dunn's season is far more than a statistical quirk. He's 80 points off his lifetime average. Baffling.

October26
08-02-2011, 08:40 AM
I don't think anyone dislikes home runs, but any successful team needs to score in many ways. We haven't scored many runs in the last week outside of the homer, especially in the losses.

Also, all big league teams have at least one regular player who's not performing up to expectations - look at Crawford with the Red Sox.

Even the Yankees don't have 9 guys playing up to expectations at all times, it's a tough game.

Russ, Thanks for this post along with the many others you've made this year. I appreciate your factual comments and they've helped me stay grounded during this very disappointing Sox season. You're absolutely right, the Sox can't manufacture runs and the result is so many losses. The close games are the ones that kill me because I keep waiting for the Sox to hit in key situations and it's just not happening this year.

I'm also not an Ozzie hater. With the Sox not scoring runs and the losses mounting, Ozzie is the easy target. If Dunn and Rios were hitting, and the Sox were winning, we would not be seeing all of this Ozzie hate. A manager is only as good as the clutch hitting, pitching, and defense of his players.

Last night versus the Yankees, the Sox once again failed to get the hits in key situations. So disappointing and frustrating to watch.

doublem23
08-02-2011, 08:41 AM
Do you watch baseball? Last I checked, there were any number of teams in MLB that are quite successful this year.

And do you watch any baseball? Because the Sox are about middle of the pack in the entire league... I know it's not were we wanted them to be this year, but it's hard to take people seriously when they call this season a complete mess or a total disaster when roughly 1/2 the league would trade places with us.

SI1020
08-02-2011, 08:49 AM
And do you watch any baseball? Because the Sox are about middle of the pack in the entire league... I know it's not were we wanted them to be this year, but it's hard to take people seriously when they call this season a complete mess or a total disaster when roughly 1/2 the league would trade places with us. 9th out of 14 in the AL. Tied for 18th overall in MLB. Three games below .500 and sinking like a rock at the moment. Who the hell would want to trade places with us? Houston and Seattle maybe.

Johnny Mostil
08-02-2011, 08:51 AM
This cliché gets trotted out pretty near every damn day. I'm no Dunn supporter, but this statement is nonsense in baseball. Players do the same thing with different results on a daily basis. Teams do the same thing with different results on a daily basis.



Unfortunately, the results of Dunn batting 3rd, 4th, or 5th this year have too often been the same thing on a different day. I might agree with you if he were batting, say .250. He's not.

Edit: Well, I stand corrected. Dunn is improving! In June, he hit .136. In July, he hit .145. In the past two weeks, he's hit .200. (I still don't think he should be hitting fourth. I do still think it's foolish to expect him anytime soon to start producing like he should hit fourth. Especially against one of the best left-handed pitchers in the league.)

asindc
08-02-2011, 09:00 AM
What the hell was with Cervelli's excessive celebration on the last out? Did the Yankees just win Game 7 of the World Series?

Anyway, this one had all the traits of a typical Sox loss: Starting pitching wasn't great, but good enough to win. Multiple mental mistakes, especially on the basepaths. Stranding runners. Obligatory HR to trick you into thinking "We're still in it!". Bad plate discipline and/or poor approach at the plate.

Nothing new to see here, folks.

...did anyone else think Stone was making a dig at Ozzie earlier in the broadcast?

"The reason why Martin isn't starting behind the plate tonight is because he's 4-for-32 again Peavy. That'll definitely get you benched. Well...in most cases it will. Typically..."

**Hawk and Stone giggle incessantly for a few moments**

Definitely. I enjoyed that moment.

asindc
08-02-2011, 09:05 AM
I guess the fact that other players on other teams manage to figure out how to get it done is irrelevant to you, eh?

I guess the fact that other players on other teams don't manage to figure out how to get it done is irrelevant to you, eh?

asindc
08-02-2011, 09:08 AM
On paper maybe, but the game isn't played on paper it's played on the field... that's how Kenny williams got himself in this mess, he counted on
these players statistically performing and kept his fingers crossed.

And of course, that's what most fans do.... although we really don't have anything at stake, financially at least.

The organization has lost the luster of 05' and has proved itself mediocre.
Most other divisions in baseball, and the season would have been over long ago with our record. The chickens have come home to roost.

The Sox are 4 1/2 games back and it seems like 40 1/2.. .500 seems like a lovely distant vision. Interesting how it's August 1st and I've started to countdown the season to where the offseason will begin where you start to wonder if and what changes may occur

That's what every single GM does, and has ever done.

asindc
08-02-2011, 09:15 AM
9th out of 14 in the AL. Tied for 18th overall in MLB. Three games below .500 and sinking like a rock at the moment. Who the hell would want to trade places with us? Houston and Seattle maybe.

Oakland
Baltimore
KC
Minny
Washington
San Diego
LAD
Colorado
Cubs
Cincy

Do you honestly believe the teams above would not trade places with us?

PeteWard
08-02-2011, 10:28 AM
You just touched on something important, captain. Hawk is, for all intents and purposes, a mouthpiece for Jerry Reinsdorf. If Hawk is speaking it, it's a good bet the Chairman is thinking it. It happened with Bevington. It happened with Manuel. And now it's happening with Ozzie Guillen.

Ozzie may be in Miami sooner than any of us realizes, because if Hawk Harrelson is taking shots at him from the booth, it is bad news for Ozzie Guillen.

Goes in here...

:reinsy

"Let 'em have it, Hawk!"

...and comes out here...

:hawk

"Ozzie Guillen sucks!"

He is just a mouth. Period. No one is listening to his crap.

RKMeibalane
08-02-2011, 10:31 AM
He is just a mouth. Period. No one is listening to his crap.

You misunderstood my point. I'm not arguing that Reinsdorf will fire Ozzie because Hawk told him to. I'm arguing that Hawk is becoming more vocal as a sign that Reinsdorf is fed up with this team's play.

If Hawk is bad-mouthing Ozzie Guillen, it is bad news for Ozzie Guillen.

SI1020
08-02-2011, 10:34 AM
Oakland
Baltimore
KC
Minny
Washington
San Diego
LAD
Colorado
Cubs
Cincy

Do you honestly believe the teams above would not trade places with us? Looking at the situation from top to bottom. Stubborn owner, GM in a three year long slump, clown manager with a son poisoning the clubhouse, successful players that fail once they arrive here, joke of a farm system. I'm sure all of those teams would like to trade places with that. Call me dark cloud I really don't give a ****. I've been a realist since I was about 6 years old.

CHISOXFAN13
08-02-2011, 10:52 AM
Oakland
Baltimore
KC
Minny
Washington
San Diego
LAD
Colorado
Cubs
Cincy

Do you honestly believe the teams above would not trade places with us?

I see a lot of low payroll, low expectations clubs on there so maybe they would be happy to be three under. Doesn't mean any of them outside of LA and the Cubs would want to be in this mess.

hawkjt
08-02-2011, 11:26 AM
Peavy hung in there vs the Yankee offensive juggernaut...three runs in 7 is not bad at all. Sox actually had a decent approach vs CC ,touching him up for 10 hits. Sale was dominant. Still in the end, another tough loss.

They need to rally the rest of this week or this could slip away quickly.
The Tigers play Texas and the Tribe have the BoSox,so the Sox could still emerge from this week within hailing distance...say 3 games.

The only thing worse than where the Sox are,is to be totally out of it,with zero hope. Get to Sept 1st 3 games back and all those games with Detroit and the Tribe are still interesting and potentially compelling.

KMcMahon817
08-02-2011, 11:46 AM
9th out of 14 in the AL. Tied for 18th overall in MLB. Three games below .500 and sinking like a rock at the moment. Who the hell would want to trade places with us? Houston and Seattle maybe.

And the Twins, and the Royals, and the Blue Jays, and the Orioles, and Oakland, and San Diego, and the Cubs...yeah you get it.

captain54
08-02-2011, 12:07 PM
I guess the fact that other players on other teams don't manage to figure out how to get it done is irrelevant to you, eh?

more alarming and noteworthy to me is that there are 19 out of 30 MLB teams that hit better than the Sox w/RISP, and have a smaller payroll, some with a mere percentage of the Sox payroll.

CHISOXFAN13
08-02-2011, 12:09 PM
And the Twins, and the Royals, and the Blue Jays, and the Orioles, and Oakland, and San Diego, and the Cubs...yeah you get it.

You think the Royals, with emerging stars and a low payroll, would want to trade places with the Sox?

that's funny.

asindc
08-02-2011, 12:21 PM
You think the Royals, with emerging stars and a low payroll, would want to trade places with the Sox?

that's funny.

KC has had emerging stars and a low payroll throughout KW's and Ozzie's tenure. It's actually funnier that you think "wait 'til next year" is just around the corner for them. Ask KC fans which they would prefer.

kufram
08-02-2011, 12:39 PM
Russ, Thanks for this post along with the many others you've made this year. I appreciate your factual comments and they've helped me stay grounded during this very disappointing Sox season. You're absolutely right, the Sox can't manufacture runs and the result is so many losses. The close games are the ones that kill me because I keep waiting for the Sox to hit in key situations and it's just not happening this year.

I'm also not an Ozzie hater. With the Sox not scoring runs and the losses mounting, Ozzie is the easy target. If Dunn and Rios were hitting, and the Sox were winning, we would not be seeing all of this Ozzie hate. A manager is only as good as the clutch hitting, pitching, and defense of his players.

Last night versus the Yankees, the Sox once again failed to get the hits in key situations. So disappointing and frustrating to watch.

Yes, no one can be anything but frustrated with the losses especially when the pitching has been so good. One can't really have a pink cloud outlook but it is a matter how to respond to it. Today I choose to notice that Peavy held one of the best teams in baseball to 2 runs. I didn't think he could do that. I don't have enough time on this Earth to waste any of it name-calling, blaming, shouting, cursing, threatening, etc. I have discovered that those things, just for me mind, achieve nothing and do me no good.

Of course if I was the multimillionaire owner I know exactly how to solve all of our problems and would deal with it all forthwith. Maybe there is more to it than I can see or understand.

Still, we hover in mediocredom but have played 7 games over .500 since whenever we were 11 out, so that's progress.... and we have pitching.... and we have defense... what do we need??... and when do we need it??? We all know the answer to those questions.

KMcMahon817
08-02-2011, 12:52 PM
You think the Royals, with emerging stars and a low payroll, would want to trade places with the Sox?

that's funny.

Hahahahah. The Royals have been over .500 twice since 1992. And those two seasons, they're a combined 6 games over .500. They haven't made the playoffs since 1985. Sure Hosmer and Moustakous are exciting. They have a great farm system...but they've had a great farm system for a while.

Get a clue.

guillensdisciple
08-02-2011, 01:02 PM
The fact remains that you can compare yourself to every other team and say well at least we're not in their shoes but that is as big a defeatist attitude as you can have because this team should be striving, at least with this kind of payroll and attitude, to be part of the elite in the AL. Instead we're just a second thought in a division full of jokes. The White Sox should have been the dynasty of the AL Central the Indians were after our world series, but instead we did nothing and now we're bound to accepting our mediocrity.

We should all be furious not okay with the situation just because we could be in someone else's shoes.

asindc
08-02-2011, 01:09 PM
The fact remains that you can compare yourself to every other team and say well at least we're not in their shoes but that is as big a defeatist attitude as you can have because this team should be striving, at least with this kind of payroll and attitude, to be part of the elite in the AL. Instead we're just a second thought in a division full of jokes. The White Sox should have been the dynasty of the AL Central the Indians were after our world series, but instead we did nothing and now we're bound to accepting our mediocrity.

We should all be furious not okay with the situation just because we could be in someone else's shoes.

I am of both mindsets, as they are not mutually exclusive. It helps maintain perspective.

doublem23
08-02-2011, 01:18 PM
The fact remains that you can compare yourself to every other team and say well at least we're not in their shoes but that is as big a defeatist attitude as you can have because this team should be striving, at least with this kind of payroll and attitude, to be part of the elite in the AL. Instead we're just a second thought in a division full of jokes. The White Sox should have been the dynasty of the AL Central the Indians were after our world series, but instead we did nothing and now we're bound to accepting our mediocrity.

We should all be furious not okay with the situation just because we could be in someone else's shoes.

Jesus Christ, if you get furious over baseball then you really need to step back from the ledge a bit. I understand there are problems with this roster and there are problems with the management and all that stuff, but some of you guys make it sound like the Sox are on pace to lose 120 games or whatever. We're "sinking like a rock," why? Because we lost 2 straight games to the 2 best teams in the league by a combined 3 runs?

Just chill. Losing is part of being a baseball fan, if you can't take it, then perhaps you need to follow a sport where everyone wins, perhaps say, Little League?

guillensdisciple
08-02-2011, 01:37 PM
Jesus Christ, if you get furious over baseball then you really need to step back from the ledge a bit. I understand there are problems with this roster and there are problems with the management and all that stuff, but some of you guys make it sound like the Sox are on pace to lose 120 games or whatever. We're "sinking like a rock," why? Because we lost 2 straight games to the 2 best teams in the league by a combined 3 runs?

Just chill. Losing is part of being a baseball fan, if you can't take it, then perhaps you need to follow a sport where everyone wins, perhaps say, Little League?


I am not that bad, I guess I should have written that we should not be satisfied. Being furious is a little much, baseball is just a game and I really don't get worked up by losing or winning (no throwing remotes or anything like that). My overall point is that we can't just compare ourselves to other teams and be okay with it, otherwise no progress will ever be made with this organization. I am a huge White Sox fan, and I want this team to be the best and that's why

captain54
08-02-2011, 01:50 PM
Just chill. Losing is part of being a baseball fan, if you can't take it, then perhaps you need to follow a sport where everyone wins, perhaps say, Little League?

You have a right to your opinion so I'm not in attack mode or anything, I'm just curious.

You continually downplay and try to minimize the failings of the White Sox as being "part of baseball" or "it's just part of the game", ignoring the fact that we are in a major market, with the resources and loyal dedicated fan base necessary to build a consistent, dominant, winning ballclub...

Or maybe you are just going out of your way and being contrarian purposely? to tweek all those "jump of the ledgers" after every loss? That's gotta be it, because it's hard for me to believe that you can't see we are in a dark phase of Chicago White Sox baseball.

KMcMahon817
08-02-2011, 01:59 PM
My overall point is that we can't just compare ourselves to other teams and be okay with it, otherwise no progress will ever be made with this organization. I am a huge White Sox fan, and I want this team to be the best and that's why

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whether or not we, the fans, compare the SOX to other teams has VERY VERY VERY little influence on progress being made within the organization.

Anybody who spends a good portion of their free time following a sports teams (watching games, reading blogs and message boards) obviously wants their team to do well. I get bummed when the SOX do poorly as I am sure most everyone who frequents this board does. But overreacting does nothing. Not going to games does very little. People saying they won't watch until _____ accomplishes nothing.

In order to stay sane, people must keep things in perspective. And honestly, the SOX are in much better shape than a lot of teams. Hell, they're 4.5 games out of first place after losing three in a row.

October26
08-02-2011, 02:23 PM
Yes, no one can be anything but frustrated with the losses especially when the pitching has been so good. One can't really have a pink cloud outlook but it is a matter how to respond to it. Today I choose to notice that Peavy held one of the best teams in baseball to 2 runs. I didn't think he could do that. I don't have enough time on this Earth to waste any of it name-calling, blaming, shouting, cursing, threatening, etc. I have discovered that those things, just for me mind, achieve nothing and do me no good.

Of course if I was the multimillionaire owner I know exactly how to solve all of our problems and would deal with it all forthwith. Maybe there is more to it than I can see or understand.

Still, we hover in mediocredom but have played 7 games over .500 since whenever we were 11 out, so that's progress.... and we have pitching.... and we have defense... what do we need??... and when do we need it??? We all know the answer to those questions.

Hello and thank you. I noticed your location before and wondered: "The White Sox have fans living in the South of England?" Too cool! Also, thanks for understanding what I was trying to say and recognizing that shouting, cursing, threatening, etc doesn't help anything or anybody.

Yes, Yes, Yes, the Sox need hitting in the most desperate way. But from where? Charlotte? Birmingham? Trades via waivers? I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.

kufram
08-02-2011, 03:33 PM
Hello and thank you. I noticed your location before and wondered: "The White Sox have fans living in the South of England?" Too cool! Also, thanks for understanding what I was trying to say and recognizing that shouting, cursing, threatening, etc doesn't help anything or anybody.

Yes, Yes, Yes, the Sox need hitting in the most desperate way. But from where? Charlotte? Birmingham? Trades via waivers? I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.

Well, the White Sox have A fan in West Sussex.... I haven't met another one and I've lived over here for over 30 years.

I've accepted that the hitting we need is going to have to come from the guys we've got plus Viciedo possibly. Long shot, I know, but that's what I want to see happen. I'd love DeAza to force his way into the everyday lineup because he looks like he wants it, and I'd love Viciedo to do the same thing.... can you think of any 2 players that we might sit down or DH for a while so that these 2 could have a try?

Johnny Mostil
08-02-2011, 03:50 PM
Do I read this (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=dunnad01&year=2011&t=b#plato) right? Dunn has a negative OPS+ against left-handed pitching this year? I didn't realize such a thing was possible.

October26
08-02-2011, 03:58 PM
I've accepted that the hitting we need is going to have to come from the guys we've got plus Viciedo possibly. Long shot, I know, but that's what I want to see happen. I'd love DeAza to force his way into the everyday lineup because he looks like he wants it, and I'd love Viciedo to do the same thing.... can you think of any 2 players that we might sit down or DH for a while so that these 2 could have a try?


I see that you have a sense of humor as well! So we'll sit Dunn and Rios, DH Viciedo and put DeAza in CF. All we need is to open up a roster spot to bring up Viciedo, right?

kufram
08-02-2011, 04:51 PM
I see that you have a sense of humor as well! So we'll sit Dunn and Rios, DH Viciedo and put DeAza in CF. All we need is to open up a roster spot to bring up Viciedo, right?

I didn't want to mention any names...

Red Barchetta
08-02-2011, 06:41 PM
This team is afraid to become a winning team. Every time they reach .500, they freeze up. Reminds me of a couple years ago when Mark's perfect game put them into a tie for first place and what should have provided as a springboard to success, only became the season's high point.

We may never see .500 again this season.

Lip Man 1
08-02-2011, 10:08 PM
Red:

Well remember who was starting the double header the next day in Detroit...only the biggest evening of the 2009 season....Colon and Contreras.

:stars:

Lip