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View Full Version : *Official* This is Terrible Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
07-31-2011, 04:40 PM
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:whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner::whiner:

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-31-2011, 04:42 PM
That's it, blow it up.

Oh, wait...

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2011, 04:42 PM
Someone pointed this out in the game thread, if they can split with the Yankees they have life but they HAVE to take 7 out of their next 10 then. But right now this team looks pretty much dead.

kittle42
07-31-2011, 04:42 PM
Absolutely no surprise here. 1-3 or 2-2 the next 4 games sounds about right, as does a final win total of 78-81.

All in.

Ozzie Guillen = Peter Gibbons + George Costanza

Tragg
07-31-2011, 04:43 PM
And the coup de grace: absolute clown managing from Guillen.

Foulke You
07-31-2011, 04:43 PM
When you strand double digit runners on base against a team like Boston, you are probably going to lose. 3 runs Friday, 2 runs Saturday, 3 runs today. This team just CANNOT hit.:(:

Aesero
07-31-2011, 04:43 PM
I dream of a game where the sox score more than 3 runs. I guess that is asking too much though.

Jurr
07-31-2011, 04:44 PM
Well, at least it gets easier now. 4 against the white hot Yankees.
Hopefully KW can make some waiver wire deals to unload some dead weight after NY comes in and goes all General Sherman on the Sox.

Soxfest
07-31-2011, 04:44 PM
Out of money, out of hope, it looks like self-destruction! This team is so unwatchable and unlikeable.:angry:

October26
07-31-2011, 04:45 PM
I want to VOMIT as I see and hear RED CUBS fans celebrating at our home park.

12 runners left on base by the White sox today is disgusting.

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2011, 04:45 PM
I would also suggest that this team stop running the "All In" commercials. Maybe film some "We're so sorry," commercials?

billyvsox
07-31-2011, 04:45 PM
About six weeks ago we were all calling for Ozzie to be fired and line up changes to made. We knew Detroit and Cleveland were not going to run away with the division.

If they had only done something like that then, who knows what might have been. Instead in back to our comfort zone of 2 games under .500 with the same disgusting lineup and performance over and over again. Groundhog day

thomas35forever
07-31-2011, 04:45 PM
And the coup de grace: absolute clown managing from Guillen.
You know what? I don't see the point in blaming him anymore. We have an inept offense and not even Casey Stengel would be able to do anything about it. It's all about poor output from the hitters themselves. You're just looking for any reason to pin any loss on him.

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2011, 04:46 PM
You know what? I don't see the point in blaming him anymore. We have an inept offense and not even Casey Stengel would be able to do anything about it. It's all about poor output from the hitters themselves. You're just looking for any reason to pin any loss on him.

I don't know, I think Ozzie deserves a lot of blame here. He doesn't deserve all of it and I don't think a new manager would do MUCH better but he deserves a good chunk of blame.

Patrick134
07-31-2011, 04:47 PM
Dunn may have gone 1-5, but he did raise his average in the process.

russ99
07-31-2011, 04:48 PM
Despite the awful situational hitting yet again, we were in a position to win.

Sadly the pen also let us down and gave up a lead.

I hope Paul is OK, we need the big guy.

Gavin
07-31-2011, 04:48 PM
Team sucks. Dunn/Rios back-to-back, not starting Pierre, losing the DH. Ozzie sucks.

PalehosePlanet
07-31-2011, 04:49 PM
And the coup de grace: absolute clown managing from Guillen.

He could've let the pitcher bat, had someone gotten on in the 9th, and he still wouldn't be fired.

Q's ****ty, over anxious, bases loaded at-bat, where he fouled off 6 straight pitches that were dirt bound, only to take strike 3 looking, was where this game was lost. ****ty pitcher, on the ropes, one hit, or walk, from getting yanked, and Q bails him out.

cleanwsox
07-31-2011, 04:49 PM
June and July didn't give us one game where the Sox scored in double figures. Wouldn't be surprised if they don't score 10+ again this year.

Tragg
07-31-2011, 04:49 PM
You know what? I don't see the point in blaming him anymore. We have an inept offense and not even Casey Stengel would be able to do anything about it. It's all about poor output from the hitters themselves. You're just looking for any reason to pin any loss on him.

I didn't pin the loss on him. I said he managed like a clown: losing your DH is inexcusable.

billyvsox
07-31-2011, 04:49 PM
You know what? I don't see the point in blaming him anymore. We have an inept offense and not even Casey Stengel would be able to do anything about it. It's all about poor output from the hitters themselves. You're just looking for any reason to pin any loss on him.

I Disagree. A good manager would have benched some sorry players and held them accountable until they performed or DL'd them. A good manager would have not put the 2 worst hitter in the middle of the lineup to protect Konerko. A good manager would have DEMANDED to clean up the fundamentals and held guys accountable for not moving runners up and situational hitting. A good manager would pinch hit for guys who are 2-75 against lefties in atight spot.

I could go on, but my point is that things can be fixed if you DO SOMETHING, and nit just sit on your but and wait for the players to get their act together.

russ99
07-31-2011, 04:49 PM
I don't know, I think Ozzie deserves a lot of blame here. He doesn't deserve all of it and I don't think a new manager would do MUCH better but he deserves a good chunk of blame.

Is Ozzie up there hitting for them? Is he managing them to swing at strike 3 out of the zone?

He's the convenient scapegoat and there's a call for his head after every loss (and most wins too) but he's not why we lost this game.

DickAllen72
07-31-2011, 04:50 PM
Tyler Flowers' passed ball was the turning point of this game.

Another terrible job of managing by Ozzie. Does he even realize that Morel hits righties better than lefties? He was having a good day at the plate and then Ozzie pulls him for Vizquel to pinch hit against a rightie.

Rios and Dunn still suck.

And the trade deadline passed without opening a spot for Viciedo on the roster. Get set for a boring August and September with this dead ass team.

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2011, 04:51 PM
Is Ozzie up there hitting for them? Is he managing them to swing at strike 3 out of the zone?

He's the convenient scapegoat and there's a call for his head after every loss (and most wins too) but he's not why we lost this game.

The job of a manager is to get his team play up to the best of their ability. Has this team done that? No. Not at all. I will not go so far as to say that Ozzie is a bad manager but he is doing a very bad job this year.

russ99
07-31-2011, 04:52 PM
I Disagree. A good manager would have benched some sorry players and held them accountable until they performed or DL'd them. A good manager would have not put the 2 worst hitter in the middle of the lineup to protect Konerko. A good manager would have DEMANDED to clean up the fundamentals and held guys accountable for not moving runners up and situational hitting. A good manager would pinch hit for guys who are 2-75 against lefties in atight spot.

I could go on, but my point is that things can be fixed if you DO SOMETHING, and nit just sit on your but and wait for the players to get their act together.

OK, fine, bench players. There's 14 players and nine have to play every day. So who plays then?

Then we'd lose with these guys benched, and the same complainers would be saying Ozzie lost the game by leaving them on the bench.

People complain when Dunn hits 3rd, People complain when Dunn hits 6th...

Bottom line: people complain. So sick of this crap. If you have such a thin skin, follow a different sport or a more easy team to follow.
I hear the Royals are looking for fans

Dan H
07-31-2011, 04:54 PM
I didn't see this game, but I do see the White Sox scored only three. Can we stop waiting for this offense to turn it around?

Rikirk
07-31-2011, 04:55 PM
At this point, I only have confidence in one player...Konerko.
But one player does not a team make.

Its just disgusting right now really.

Sometimes ya just cant win.:angry:

billyvsox
07-31-2011, 04:56 PM
OK, fine, bench players. There's 14 players and nine have to play every day. So who plays then?

Then we'd lose with these guys benched, and the same complainers would be saying Ozzie lost the game by leaving them on the bench.

At least he would have tried...that what I am hoping for. Someone who cares enough to try and take risks.

Now I know you all will kill me for saying this, but do you think that in Minnesota if guys were playing this bad or dogging it that Gardenhire wouldnt make a change. You bet he would....so would more then half of the other managers out there. Myabe the reason the Twins are always so tough in the 2nd half is because they REACT and make Change and make the hard decisions to get better.

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2011, 04:56 PM
Tyler Flowers' passed ball was the turning point of this game.

Another terrible job of managing by Ozzie. Does he even realize that Morel hits righties better than lefties? He was having a good day at the plate and then Ozzie pulls him for Vizquel to pinch hit against a rightie.

Rios and Dunn still suck.

And the trade deadline passed without opening a spot for Viciedo on the roster. Get set for a boring August and September with this dead ass team.

You know what's scary right now? Flowers is currently the future of catching. For all the knocks against AJ's defense he is still light years ahead of Flowers.

Aesero
07-31-2011, 04:56 PM
OK, fine, bench players. There's 14 players and nine have to play every day. So who plays then?

Then we'd lose with these guys benched, and the same complainers would be saying Ozzie lost the game by leaving them on the bench.

People complain when Dunn hits 3rd, People complain when Dunn hits 6th...

Bottom line: people complain. So sick of this crap. If you have such a thin skin, follow a different sport or a more easy team to follow.
I hear the Royals are looking for fans

People complain when Dunn plays period. I doubt anyone would complain if both Rios and Dunn were permanently benched for the rest of the year.

thomas35forever
07-31-2011, 04:56 PM
The job of a manager is to get his team play up to the best of their ability. Has this team done that? No. Not at all. I will not go so far as to say that Ozzie is a bad manager but he is doing a very bad job this year.
I don't think he (or anybody) could have anticipated that Dunn and Rios would be absolutely AWFUL this year though. You can't blame him entirely for that. Maybe a bit, but that's as far as I'll go.

On another note, I stopped supporting Ozzie after his "piss on the statues" comment, but the same people calling for his head day in and day out makes it hard for me to stay on that side. In fact, I think I'm on his side again because of the anti-Ozzie agenda those people seem to push, especially after losses. They hate him with such a passion that it makes the experience on here less enjoyable. Disagree with Ozzie's moves if you want, but we all know he's not going anywhere this year, so stop making a futile effort to get the front office to let him go.

Gavin
07-31-2011, 04:57 PM
OK, fine, bench players. There's 14 players and nine have to play every day. So who plays then?

Then we'd lose with these guys benched, and the same complainers would be saying Ozzie lost the game by leaving them on the bench.

People complain when Dunn hits 3rd, People complain when Dunn hits 6th...

Bottom line: people complain. So sick of this crap. If you have such a thin skin, follow a different sport or a more easy team to follow.
I hear the Royals are looking for fans

You're talking hypotheticals. WSI posters are mostly intelligent and mostly right in their criticism. The reason Ozzie doesn't bench Rios and Dunn is because he's doing what any manager would do to keep job security. The riskiest thing you can do is bench the "stars" of the team. While a lot of people here, myself included, want nothing to do with ****ty Rios and Dunn, the "conventional wisdom" would single out Ozzie if he stopped playing them.

That being said, there's still no goddamn reason why he has to bat them back-to-back unless he's trolling all of us.

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2011, 04:57 PM
At least he would have tried...that what I am hoping for. Someone who cares enough to try and take risks.

Now I know you all will kill me for saying this, but do you think that in Minnesota if guys were playing this bad or dogging it that Gardenhire wouldnt make a change. You bet he would....so would more then half of the other managers out there. Myabe the reason the Twins are always so tough in the 2nd half is because they REACT and make Change and make the hard decisions to get better.

I don't blame Ozzie for not benching guys because really he would have to bench half the team. Until De Aza was called up there was no one else who could really play center so Rios was pretty much the center fielder by default.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-31-2011, 04:59 PM
You know what's scary right now? Flowers is currently the future of catching. For all the knocks against AJ's defense he is still light years ahead of Flowers.

The only knock defensively about AJ is his arm. Everything else (blocking balls, etc.) is average to above average.

Lip Man 1
07-31-2011, 04:59 PM
Russ:

I admire your zeal and there is blame to go around BUT the managers job is to put his best players in the best positions to win games....honestly, no sarcasm, can you HONESTLY say Ozzie's done that?

Absolute blind loyalty to anyone or anything is dangerous. You need to take an honest look at the situation.

Ozzie has not been the same type manager the past few years. I think he's comfortable which is an issue up and down this organization along with ZERO accountability.

---------------------------------

10th game this season the Sox lost when they had the lead in the 7th inning or later.

54th game out of 106 played where they scored three runs or less.

It was the usual suspects...leaving a ton of runners on base, no conception of a strike zone, helping out a no-name pitcher, a major defensive mistake (passed ball)...same song, seems like 250th verse.

On the post game show on Comcast Sports Chicago you could just see the look of utter disdain in Garfein's face when he was asking Melton about the lack of patience then they showed all of Carlos' swings in the key at bat against pitches in the dirt or outside of the zone.

What you see is what you get...maybe they can finish over .500 but don't be surprised if Kenny ships out some guys via waivers before September 1st if he can.

Lip

joegraz
07-31-2011, 05:00 PM
I don't blame Ozzie for not benching guys because really he would have to bench half the team. Until De Aza was called up there was no one else who could really play center so Rios was pretty much the center fielder by default.

And yet.....there he was.

shingo10
07-31-2011, 05:00 PM
I was so excited about this week because with the trade deadline I figured at least it would be exciting to unload some guys and start getting younger talent up here but it was not to be.

So it's back to watching the same old crap for the next 2 months.

It's sad that I'm more excited about the offseason because there will for sure be a shakeup then.

DickAllen72
07-31-2011, 05:00 PM
You know what's scary right now? Flowers is currently the future of catching. For all the knocks against AJ's defense he is still light years ahead of Flowers.
Flowers will never be as good as AJ.

Gavin
07-31-2011, 05:03 PM
Flowers will never be as good as AJ.

Agreed, AJ has pretty good premonitions about when and where a ball will bounce when it hits the dirt. Unfortunately his arm sucks.

thomas35forever
07-31-2011, 05:03 PM
Flowers will never be as good as AJ.
"I served with AJ. I knew AJ. AJ was a friend of mine. Tyler, you're no AJ."

PalehosePlanet
07-31-2011, 05:08 PM
I didn't pin the loss on him. I said he managed like a clown: losing your DH is inexcusable.

He also brought in Ohman to face Gonzalez even though he was hitting ****ing .900 against him in a pivotal spot in the game.

Far be it for our manager to actually know that!!

Gavin
07-31-2011, 05:09 PM
He also brought in Ohman to face Gonzalez even though he was hitting ****ing .900 against him in a pivotal spot in the game.

Far be it for our manager to actually know that!!

Well, that one's on Cora for not telling Ozzie that numbers can be used for stuff.

Lip Man 1
07-31-2011, 05:12 PM
4th straight game, three runs or less. 10 total runs in that span.

Lip

central44
07-31-2011, 05:14 PM
Ozzie has not been the same type manager the past few years. I think he's comfortable which is an issue up and down this organization along with ZERO accountability.

Lip

This. This organization puts loyalty ahead of accountability, and as a result we see complacency. The same problems all year long--and nothing is changing.

soxfan45
07-31-2011, 05:14 PM
Mark
I'm not the biggest Ozzie supporter and perhaps a change in scenery would do everybody good after the season, but face it, we have 1 consistant hitter and a good pitching staff, full stop so far this year.

The rest of these guys have been inconsisent as heck and we all sit around here hoping for some sort of "mean reversion" on some of these guys (Rios/Dunn) who are playing at under their career numbers and its just not happening.

We missed our chance to get younger and better. Can't say I blame KW either way because we were only 3 out. But this team is going nowhere. I can't imagine if I had to watch this horror show everyday in person. At least I can shut the TV off.

GlassSox
07-31-2011, 05:19 PM
Ozzie's post game press conference's are a joke. Go Green, just turn off the power to that room. No one has the balls to ask Ozzie a hard question.

Although I think that Ozzie and Walker have out lived their useful lives with the White Sox, the majority of the blame falls on the MLB players, being paid MLB wages, who are not executing.

If the players were getting the job done then we would not have to worry about Ozzie & Walker.

It will take a major miracle for this team to see the post season on anything but their flat screens.

Nelfox02
07-31-2011, 05:25 PM
well, I said in the game thread 3 runs max, figured they would score 1 at least......such a (painfully) predictable group this year.

What kills me is just how boring/depressing most games are. Because even in games where there is no score of the sox have a 1-2 run lead, every inning you are on edge b/c you know if the opposition puts up 3-4 points, its over. and in the games where a team jumps out and has a 2-3 run lead early on the sox....it takes the wind out of your sails because you figure that odds are very strong that the game is over, even if it is only the second or third inning.

It just isnt fun. And that sucks, because at the end of the day from a fan perspective this is supposed to be entertainment.

I have followed the sox since I was a kid in the early 80's, but it is not since the late 80's that I actually knew what was going/remembered the team.......I can t think of a sox team with no major injuries to position players that simply was so terrible at scoring runs. Just plain terrible.

would any other team in the majors that was not Astros bad just sit and let nothing happen? call up a guy? fire a coach or manager? serious line up shuffle? EXTENDED benching for underporming player? It is disgusting........

2011 Chi Sox Baseball: an exercise in futility

Rikirk
07-31-2011, 05:26 PM
I think im starting to lean toward the camp of seeing Ozzie being shown his walking papers.

Is it going to happen, probably not...but they say change is good.

Soxfest
07-31-2011, 05:28 PM
The White Sox must be the only team in MLB where a 1-run deficit with 3 innings to go is considered an "insurmountable deficit".

Nelfox02
07-31-2011, 05:28 PM
Ozzie's post game press conference's are a joke. Go Green, just turn off the power to that room. No one has the balls to ask Ozzie a hard question.

Although I think that Ozzie and Walker have out lived their useful lives with the White Sox, the majority of the blame falls on the MLB players, being paid MLB wages, who are not executing.

If the players were getting the job done then we would not have to worry about Ozzie & Walker.

It will take a major miracle for this team to see the post season on anything but their flat screens.

very true

I would venture to guess that not one of them really gives a damn about it either.

DSpivack
07-31-2011, 05:28 PM
I think im starting to lean toward the camp of seeing Ozzie being shown his walking papers.

Is it going to happen, probably not...but they say change is good.

At this point I'm just hoping he escapes to the Miami Marlins in the offseason.

StillMissOzzie
07-31-2011, 05:28 PM
I don't think he (or anybody) could have anticipated that Dunn and Rios would be absolutely AWFUL this year though. You can't blame him entirely for that. Maybe a bit, but that's as far as I'll go.


But he keeps totting the same stiffs out there game after game. One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Another wasted decent start.
Another boatload of wasted scoring opportunities. Runners LOB for each of the 1st 5 innings.
Nice AB by TCQ with the bases loaded and one out. Even my daughter's softball coach hates it when they strike out looking.
And even though Rios did come through with a rare 2 out RBI hit, I am SO tired of seeing him continue to get playing time, matchups-be-damned. As much as Dunn had stunk up the joint, he has only hurt the Sox offensively. Rios continues to flirt with the Mendoza line at the plate, and he continues to dog it in the field. I think he deserves the boo-birds more than Dunn. Rios strikes me as the epitome of an "Win or lose, either way, I get paid" player.

And a special honorary boot in the ass to Flowers. His non-error muff of the foul pop-up and the passed ball through his legs were both instrumental in the 2 runs Boston plated in the 7th. If he is the future behind the plate, then the Sox have more problems.

SMO
:mad: + :angry: = :gulp:

SCCWS
07-31-2011, 05:35 PM
I watched some of the Red Sox telecast last night. During Bruney's batting practice inning, the broadcast did a promo for today's game. When they said Miller against Buehrle the camera switched to a shot of MB and he was laughing his a** off as he joked w a team-mate. That tells me a lot about this team. If that was the Red Sox, one of their veteran players would have kicked him in the rear like the time Youk went after Manny. I don't think many White Sox fans found anything funny watching Bruney getting bashed.

DSpivack
07-31-2011, 05:43 PM
I watched some of the Red Sox telecast last night. During Bruney's batting practice inning, the broadcast did a promo for today's game. When they said Miller against Buehrle the camera switched to a shot of MB and he was laughing his a** off as he joked w a team-mate. That tells me a lot about this team. If that was the Red Sox, one of their veteran players would have kicked him in the rear like the time Youk went after Manny. I don't think many White Sox fans found anything funny watching Bruney getting bashed.

How dare players appear to have fun during the game. :rolleyes:

soltrain21
07-31-2011, 05:49 PM
I would like Russ to explain to us all when he thinks a manager should be fired.

Boondock Saint
07-31-2011, 05:51 PM
How dare players appear to have fun during the game. :rolleyes:

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2011/06/medium_dm_101129_nfl_derek_anderson_final_01.jpg
"You think this is funny? I take this **** serious, real serious. I put my heart and soul into this **** every single week. I don't go out there and laugh, it's not funny, nothing's funny to me."

MarySwiss
07-31-2011, 05:59 PM
<begin angry rant>:angry::angry::angry:I watched this pathetic suckfest only because I recently tore a medial meniscus and am trying to avoid moving around any more than I have to, pending surgery.

But this team--and its "manager"--is making me--like all of us-crazy! I swear, I think we should keep Konerko and AJ, send the rest of these pathetic excuses for major league position players down to AAA, and bring up the Charlotte Knights. At least that way we'd have some players who would put in some effort!

Question, bottom of nine, one out, did anyone think that Dunn and Rios were going to choose that precise moment to suddenly become good, or even average? Me neither!

And now we get the Yankees. Oh, goody!:angry::angry::angry::angry:</angry rant over>

October26
07-31-2011, 06:16 PM
<begin angry rant>:angry::angry::angry:I watched this pathetic suckfest only because I recently tore a medial meniscus and am trying to avoid moving around any more than I have to, pending surgery.

But this team--and its "manager"--is making me--like all of us-crazy! I swear, I think we should keep Konerko and AJ, send the rest of these pathetic excuses for major league position players down to AAA, and bring up the Charlotte Knights. At least that way we'd have some players who would put in some effort!

Question, bottom of nine, one out, did anyone think that Dunn and Rios were going to choose that precise moment to suddenly become good, or even average? Me neither!

And now we get the Yankees. Oh, goody!:angry::angry::angry::angry:</angry rant over>

Great post, MarySwiss! I agree with all of your points. Sorry to hear about your pending surgery; hope all goes well for you.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2011, 06:23 PM
But this team--and its "manager"--is making me--like all of us-crazy! I swear, I think we should keep Konerko and AJ, send the rest of these pathetic excuses for major league position players down to AAA, and bring up the Charlotte Knights. At least that way we'd have some players who would put in some effort!
I've actually wished for that to happen as well. The Knights might actually get us over .500! Why, oh why, can't this team get above .500?

DSpivack
07-31-2011, 06:24 PM
I've actually wished for that to happen as well. The Knights might actually get us over .500! Why, oh why, can't this team get above .500?

Too bad our farm system might be the worst in baseball.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2011, 06:27 PM
Too bad our farm system might be the worst in baseball.
Most of our major leaguers play like minor leaguers.

DSpivack
07-31-2011, 06:31 PM
Most of our major leaguers play like minor leaguers.

Well, the White Sox this year are a consistently .500 team. You'd rather be the Astros?

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 06:35 PM
I would like Russ to explain to us all when he thinks a manager should be fired.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

geofitz
07-31-2011, 06:42 PM
I had this thought while watching the game: The Sox were winning up until the 4 PM deadline. It passed. And then...............back in the tank. IIRC just then Rios tried to nail Ellsbury at the plate and allowed Pedroia to cruise to second base. So that meant all the underperforming, overpaid players were "safe" and didn't have to relocate. Dunn and Rios back to back= insanity.

Brian26
07-31-2011, 07:01 PM
I know this wasn't shown on television, but there was a very telling episode before the top of the 9th when Ozzie went out to go through the lineup card with the umpire, then Francona came out to update his based on Ozzie's changes, then the umpire called back Ozzie to make sure that's what he wanted to do, then Francona stood in the on deck circle with his arms folded waiting for Dunn to be announced at first while Ozzie went back to the dugout and then waved his hand at Francona like "**** you, get back in your dugout."

Clown college.

Crestani
07-31-2011, 07:20 PM
Well, the White Sox this year are a consistently .500 team. You'd rather be the Astros?


No, consistently under .500...!!!

wassagstdu
07-31-2011, 07:37 PM
I know this wasn't shown on television, but there was a very telling episode before the top of the 9th when Ozzie went out to go through the lineup card with the umpire, then Francona came out to update his based on Ozzie's changes, then the umpire called back Ozzie to make sure that's what he wanted to do, then Francona stood in the on deck circle with his arms folded waiting for Dunn to be announced at first while Ozzie went back to the dugout and then waved his hand at Francona like "**** you, get back in your dugout."

Clown college.

Ozzie was laughing when he made that gesture. How can he be joking around when the team is losing? What a clown, fire him.

But seriously, this Ozzie hate is really tedious and absurd.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2011, 07:38 PM
But seriously, this Ozzie hate is really tedious and absurd.

The only thing more tedious and absurd is Ozzie's clown robot act.

Gavin
07-31-2011, 07:40 PM
Ozzie was laughing when he made that gesture. How can he be joking around when the team is losing? What a clown, fire him.

But seriously, this Ozzie hate is really tedious and absurd.

Yeah, like he's earned so much cred that we shouldn't be questioning his decisions.

2005!!!

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 07:48 PM
Ozzie was laughing when he made that gesture. How can he be joking around when the team is losing? What a clown, fire him.

But seriously, this Ozzie hate is really tedious and absurd.

He's become Bevington.

blandman
07-31-2011, 07:54 PM
And the coup de grace: absolute clown managing from Guillen.

I know, did you see how many runners he stranded at the plate?

Boondock Saint
07-31-2011, 08:01 PM
I know, did you see how many runners he stranded at the plate?

Dunn and Rios batted 5th and 6th in the lineup today. Did they just get to the lineup card and scratch their names in there before Ozzie could get to it?

WhiteSoxOnly
07-31-2011, 08:03 PM
He's become Bevington.



That's,um...not good.

blandman
07-31-2011, 08:12 PM
Dunn and Rios batted 5th and 6th in the lineup today. Did they just get to the lineup card and scratch their names in there before Ozzie could get to it?

They can't ride the bench everyday. And in Dunn's case, it isn't Ozzie's call. It's Kenny's, and that should be obvious. Rios didn't get benched until Kenny made a move too.

DickAllen72
07-31-2011, 08:12 PM
I know this wasn't shown on television, but there was a very telling episode before the top of the 9th when Ozzie went out to go through the lineup card with the umpire, then Francona came out to update his based on Ozzie's changes, then the umpire called back Ozzie to make sure that's what he wanted to do, then Francona stood in the on deck circle with his arms folded waiting for Dunn to be announced at first while Ozzie went back to the dugout and then waved his hand at Francona like "**** you, get back in your dugout."

Clown college.
That whole episode was shown on the Comcast telecast.

Boondock Saint
07-31-2011, 08:14 PM
They can't ride the bench everyday. And in Dunn's case, it isn't Ozzie's call. It's Kenny's, and that should be obvious. Rios didn't get benched until Kenny made a move too.

They can damn sure not be put in the 4-5-6 spots in the order ahead of guys hitting 50-100 points higher than they are. We're over 100 games into the season, and these bums are being relied upon more than the guys who have been outperforming them for four months now.

Lip Man 1
07-31-2011, 08:23 PM
Sox are hitting .179 with runners in scoring position the last 11 games.

That's "White Sox baseball..."

:rolleyes:

Lip

shingo10
07-31-2011, 08:26 PM
He's become Bevington.


Wow.

Ozzie's made some dumb moves and choices and has been an average manager at best the past couple of seasons but to compare him to Bevington? No way. His ineptitude is unmatched. Haven't seen Ozzie go out to make a pitching change with no one warming up in the bullpen yet. Or seen him argue a call that was actually in the Sox favor.

I agree that Ozzie Guillen the first two years as Sox manager was much more passionate and much more of an aggressive manager. Lately he has seemed disinterested like much of the team and hasn't really been putting pressure on the opponents like he used to. Also he's kind of a CYA manager when running the bullpen.

GlassSox
07-31-2011, 08:27 PM
They can't ride the bench everyday. And in Dunn's case, it isn't Ozzie's call. It's Kenny's, and that should be obvious. Rios didn't get benched until Kenny made a move too.

They can ride the bench whenever Ozzie decides to manup and do it. It is the manager's job to decide who plays and when.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2011, 08:32 PM
Wow.

Ozzie's made some dumb moves and choices and has been an average manager at best the past couple of seasons but to compare him to Bevington? No way. His ineptitude is unmatched. Haven't seen Ozzie go out to make a pitching change with no one warming up in the bullpen yet. Or seen him argue a call that was actually in the Sox favor.

I agree that Ozzie Guillen the first two years as Sox manager was much more passionate and much more of an aggressive manager. Lately he has seemed disinterested like much of the team and hasn't really been putting pressure on the opponents like he used to. Also he's kind of a CYA manager when running the bullpen.
I don't recall that one. What's up with that?

Brian26
07-31-2011, 08:33 PM
Ozzie was laughing when he made that gesture. How can he be joking around when the team is losing? What a clown, fire him.

But seriously, this Ozzie hate is really tedious and absurd.

Oz may have been laughing about it, but Francona looked like he was taking it seriously.

guillensdisciple
07-31-2011, 08:37 PM
I'm no Ozzie lover but, like I said in the game thread, this team sucks not because of Ozzie but because of two players that were PIVOTAL to the Sox success this year tanking it. I don't have to mention their names, because many of you have, but Ozzie can't possibly make them hit better. Yes, he can sit them down, but then your subs won't do much better either. The only decision he can make is to tell Rios and Dunn to **** themselves and put De Aza and Viciedo in, but I think there is a lot more involved in regards to that kind of decision.

Ozzie can't make a player play like crap. Maybe he has lost us a game or two because of weird subs or bullpen changesf but damn when you have two players who dog it on the field and can't hit and they're supposed to be a huge part of your talented line up there is not much you can do. Essentially,all OZzie has is Pierre, Ramirez, Konerko,A.J, and Quentin. That's it, and 5 players will not get you the required amount of runs to win a game.

That's all it comes down to folks. You're all looking for changes in something that can't be changed. We can get francona in here and nothing would happen because we'd still have two of the biggest black holes in baseball in our line up.

Rios and Dunn my friends, stop trying to get management fired- the regime did not bring the collapse of two players like Dunn and Rios. Dunn and Rios did. Don't forget, Dunn does not take practice over winter seasons because he does not need it and Rios, well Rios does not even care about baseball he's chill. If you think Ozzie has anything to do with that then you guys are out of your minds.

Guaranteed those two perform like they should, or hell, average this team is looking at 10 or 15 games over ..500 with the pitching and bullpen we have.

So, forget Ozzie, it's those two we should be looking to exile.

DirtySox
07-31-2011, 08:37 PM
Oz may have been laughing about it, but Francona looked like he was taking it seriously.

There are serious managers? But as a fan, what entertainment value would I get from a serious manager? I'll trade valuable baseball acumen for cussing and jokes any day of the week.

tstrike2000
07-31-2011, 08:39 PM
Oz may have been laughing about it, but Francona looked like he was taking it seriously.

They're just two completely different types of people and managers. Unfortunately, class and managing skill are on the other Sox.

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 08:40 PM
I'm no Ozzie lover but, like I said in the game thread, this team sucks not because of Ozzie but because of two players that were PIVOTAL to the Sox success this year tanking it. I don't have to mention their names, because many of you have, but Ozzie can't possibly make them hit better. Yes, he can sit them down, but then your subs won't do much better either. The only decision he can make is to tell Rios and Dunn to **** themselves and put De Aza and Viciedo in, but I think there is a lot more involved in regards to that kind of decision.

Ozzie can't make a player play like crap. Maybe he has lost us a game or two because of weird subs or bullpen changesf but damn when you have two players who dog it on the field and can't hit and they're supposed to be a huge part of your talented line up there is not much you can do. Essentially,all OZzie has is Pierre, Ramirez, Konerko,A.J, and Quentin. That's it, and 5 players will not get you the required amount of runs to win a game.

That's all it comes down to folks. You're all looking for changes in something that can't be changed. We can get francona in here and nothing would happen because we'd still have two of the biggest black holes in baseball in our line up.

Rios and Dunn my friends, stop trying to get management fired- the regime did not bring the collapse of two players like Dunn and Rios. Dunn and Rios did. Don't forget, Dunn does not take practice over winter seasons because he does not need it and Rios, well Rios does not even care about baseball he's chill. If you think Ozzie has anything to do with that then you guys are out of your minds.

Guaranteed those two perform like they should, or hell, average this team is looking at 10 or 15 games over ..500 with the pitching and bullpen we have.

So, forget Ozzie, it's those two we should be looking to exile.

You have no argument. The players change, but the results are the same.

Aesero
07-31-2011, 08:40 PM
They can't ride the bench everyday. And in Dunn's case, it isn't Ozzie's call. It's Kenny's, and that should be obvious. Rios didn't get benched until Kenny made a move too.

I fail to see why they can't be benched. Maybe not EVERY day but certainly a lot more than they are now. This is a professional team trying to win games in a close division. This is not the time to worry about hurting feelings. Put your best team on the field every day and at least try to show that you're 'all in'.

guillensdisciple
07-31-2011, 08:45 PM
You have no argument. The players change, but the results are the same.

So you are telling me the decline of Dunn and Rios is all the fault of Ozzie Guillen. It makes me wonder why the hell players like Konerko, our pitching staff, our bullpen all produce with this management.

The White Sox have been laden with the type of player that kills baseball teams. No effort fun loving types. Remember what made the White Sox good in '05? Ye, the fact that we did not have minimal effort idiots in the clubhouse. Then what happened, we got saturated with happy go lucky shlomos and boom we have this.

The manager does not play the game. The players do- if you get your change, you'll be doing the same thing with the next guy as you're doing with these guys.

Aesero
07-31-2011, 08:53 PM
So you are telling me the decline of Dunn and Rios is all the fault of Ozzie Guillen.

The decline? No. Putting them on the field? Yes.

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 09:07 PM
So you are telling me the decline of Dunn and Rios is all the fault of Ozzie Guillen.

No. But Ozzie is responsible for the hitting coach, a poor set of core beliefs about how to play winning baseball, poor talent evaluation, blind loyalty to veterans, a history of throwing players under the bus, a lack of accountability, and having turned the Sox into a national laughingstock -- the only national press they get is when Ozzie says or does something stupid.

Who would want to play hard in that environment?

Dunn and Rios are but the latest in a long line of underperformers. The culture that coddles them is all Ozzie's.

shingo10
07-31-2011, 09:24 PM
I don't recall that one. What's up with that?


Someone else will probably be able to do a better job explaining it and I forget what exactly the call was but from what I remember there was a play on the field that the umpire ruled in the Sox favor. Lou Pinella came running out of the dugout to argue it and the umpire upheld his decision. Then Bevington came running out to argue with the decision and the whole time the umpire was trying to explain to him that the call actually benefited the Sox. He was asked about it in his postgame press conference and he gave a very long, rambling response that made little sense.

They still play the sound bytes from it on 670 the score from time to time.

JB98
07-31-2011, 09:31 PM
So many things to dislike about today's ballpark experience. I mean, I'm glad I lucked into a Frank Thomas statue and saw a little of that ceremony. It was all downhill from there:

1. Watching the Sox leave a small country on base against Andrew Miller and his 5.45 ERA. As the Sox were losing this game, the Red Sox were working to trade for Miller's replacement. That's how much Miller stinks. Yet they beat us with that bum on the mound.

2. Watching Rios make a terrible throw in the seventh inning again. He had no chance to get Ellsbury at the plate, but that didn't stop him from throwing through and allowing Pedroia to take the extra base. That took the Sox out of a possible DP situation, and of course, Gonzalez grounded to second base right after that. As usual, Rios had no awareness of the game situation.

3. Ozzie takes Sale out of the game in the eighth because he does not trust him to retire .171-hitting Darnell McDonald. Sale throws left. McDonald bats right. That's obviously a dangerous situation, especially with nobody on base. Ozzie brings in a right-handed pitcher, and Francona promptly pinch-hits with .330-hitting Jason Reddick. Fortunately, Frasor punched Reddick out, but it was still bonehead managing. Why not let Sale finish the eighth and have Frasor fresh to start the ninth?

4. And, of course, "Red Sox Nation," also known as Cub fans wearing Red Sox shirts, was out in full force today. I hate those douchebags. There's nothing worse than those clowns leaving our ballpark happy. ****ing bull****. Go back to Addison and stay there, turds. It really pisses me off that some of those folks got the Frank Thomas statues. Those are probably on eBay already. Sickening.

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 09:41 PM
3. Ozzie takes Sale out of the game in the eighth because he does not trust him to retire .171-hitting Darnell McDonald. Sale throws left. McDonald bats right. That's obviously a dangerous situation, especially with nobody on base.

It's amazing Buehrle and Danks are allowed to face right-handed batters. I hope Ozzie changes his mind about Sale before he makes him a starter.

Tragg
07-31-2011, 09:49 PM
I know, did you see how many runners he stranded at the plate?
Leaving runners is an issue.
So is losing your DH when fiddling with a lineup.

BainesHOF
07-31-2011, 10:27 PM
I'm in favor of next putting up a statue of Guillen. I'd like to piss on it.

kittle42
07-31-2011, 11:43 PM
He's the convenient scapegoat and there's a call for his head after every loss (and most wins too) but he's not why we lost this game.

Just wondering...many of us have pointed out what we believe his actual flaws to be other than the poor performance of his players, which is, yes, not actually his fault. So what do you think he actually does well?

kittle42
07-31-2011, 11:47 PM
But seriously, this Ozzie hate is really tedious and absurd.

I don't hate him. He's just bad at his job. Like Adam Dunn.

ghostface36
08-01-2011, 12:23 AM
they need to get a new hitting coach seriously how walker still has the job is amazing

doublem23
08-01-2011, 12:30 AM
He's the convenient scapegoat and there's a call for his head after every loss (and most wins too) but he's not why we lost this game.

He's the manager.

SI1020
08-01-2011, 08:26 AM
People complain when Dunn plays period. I doubt anyone would complain if both Rios and Dunn were permanently benched for the rest of the year. Please do it.

SI1020
08-01-2011, 08:39 AM
He's become Bevington. He has, and I admit to being surprised that he would sink that low. I've never seen a manager have initial success like Ozzie did and then regress this badly. I sincerely hope Miami is calling him. It would be best for all parties if he made that move.

blandman
08-01-2011, 08:51 AM
They can damn sure not be put in the 4-5-6 spots in the order ahead of guys hitting 50-100 points higher than they are. We're over 100 games into the season, and these bums are being relied upon more than the guys who have been outperforming them for four months now.

There are six easy outs in this lineup, at least those two used to be good.

doublem23
08-01-2011, 08:58 AM
There are six easy outs in this lineup, at least those two used to be good.

Pretty much, it'd be one thing if Dunn and Rios were the only two guys not hitting, but you can only bat so many guys in the lower 1/3 of your order. Not sure if it's any better to have Morel and Beckham batting 4/5.

Jerko
08-01-2011, 09:23 AM
The only thing worse than the lineup, and the ensuing national league managing, was the sound system for the pre-game Thomas stuff. Awful.

Boondock Saint
08-01-2011, 09:25 AM
There are six easy outs in this lineup, at least those two used to be good.

Pretty much, it'd be one thing if Dunn and Rios were the only two guys not hitting, but you can only bat so many guys in the lower 1/3 of your order. Not sure if it's any better to have Morel and Beckham batting 4/5.

99 out of 100 scenarios makes putting Rios and Dunn in those key RBI-producing spots the right call. But this season is that one scenario that makes guys like AJ, Beckham and even Morel better options. Rios and Dunn are just not hitting. I know you normally want the guys with the power potential hitting there, but when those guys are only getting a hit once every five or six at bats, you need to just go with the guys who are getting base hits.

PaleHoser
08-01-2011, 09:57 AM
Oz may have been laughing about it, but Francona looked like he was taking it seriously.

Probably because Francona thought Ozzie had lost his mind.

When Ozzie pinch-hit Pierzynski for Lillibridge, he used his backup catcher. I believe that Lillibridge is also the emergency catcher, though I've heard Harrelson mention that Ramirez was also the emergency catcher at one time.

When Dunn moved to 1B, he lost his DH. His pitcher was now scheduled to hit fourth in the bottom of the ninth and De Aza was his only bench player left.

All this in a one run game.

I was praying for the Sox to tie it in the bottom of the ninth and then have Pierzynski unable to play for one reason or another. I wouldn't wish an injury, but if he wasn't able to go we'd have had pitchers playing positions and no catcher.

Of course, the run the Red Sox pushed across in the top of the ninth made it impossible for the Sox to tie it. But it would have been worth the $61 I paid for bleacher seat yesterday to witness that potential circus.

Didn't Flowers get moved to 1B for some time while he was in the Braves organization? Wouldn't it have been better to move him to 1B to keep both catcher's in the line-up in case of emergency? Am I missing something here?

hi im skot
08-01-2011, 10:09 AM
The only thing worse than the lineup, and the ensuing national league managing, was the sound system for the pre-game Thomas stuff. Awful.

Agreed. When I walked over to the statue area prior to the ceremony and saw those crappy little Anchor brand speakers, I knew we were going to have some issues.

blandman
08-01-2011, 10:22 AM
99 out of 100 scenarios makes putting Rios and Dunn in those key RBI-producing spots the right call. But this season is that one scenario that makes guys like AJ, Beckham and even Morel better options. Rios and Dunn are just not hitting. I know you normally want the guys with the power potential hitting there, but when those guys are only getting a hit once every five or six at bats, you need to just go with the guys who are getting base hits.


AJ has proven in opportunities prior to this year he isn't that guy. And Beckham and Morel are young and struggling mightily. Why on Earth would you put more pressure on them?

TomBradley72
08-01-2011, 11:36 AM
I absolutely can't believe Rios was starting yesterday- at some point Ozzie and Kenny have to be willing to put the overall team first. They have ZERO credibility when it comes to any bluster about "being Chicago tough" or "playing the game the right way"- sorry- the emperor has no clothes.

Rios sits- not because of of his horrible hitting- but because of his ongoing laziness and apathetic approach to the game.

Dunn sits against ALL left handed starters- 3 hits by August 4th- there is no other approach you can take. If Viciedo gets healthy- cut Vizquel and make room for a decent right handed DH.

blandman
08-01-2011, 11:44 AM
I absolutely can't believe Rios was starting yesterday- at some point Ozzie and Kenny have to be willing to put the overall team first. They have ZERO credibility when it comes to any bluster about "being Chicago tough" or "playing the game the right way"- sorry- the emperor has no clothes.

Rios sits- not because of of his horrible hitting- but because of his ongoing laziness and apathetic approach to the game.

Dunn sits against ALL left handed starters- 3 hits by August 4th- there is no other approach you can take. If Viciedo gets healthy- cut Vizquel and make room for a decent right handed DH.

Rios can't ride the bench at his salary for the next four years. Really, everyone here is worried about this year. But the team has to do what's best long term. Rios is obviously sulking, and it does infuriate me that he's essentially a child. But sitting on the bench isn't going to help him grow up. If he hasn't grown up by now, it's never going to happen. So he has to play until he figures it out. The sulking won't stop unless he's playing regularly, and the other option is you keep a player on your bench at more than $12 million a year who's always gonna dog it, and be obvious about it. Which turns our roster into 24 players, and puts us at a huge disadvantage every time we take the field.

They're not releasing Vizquel. Viciedo will be up in September, not a day sooner.

Lip Man 1
08-01-2011, 11:55 AM
And how is Rios' "sulking" affecting the other players and the clubhouse, he wondered outloud and what kind of example is that showing to the guys on the club who do care if he's allowed to dog it yet still play simply because the Sox owe him a lot of money???

Lip

thomas35forever
08-01-2011, 12:01 PM
4. And, of course, "Red Sox Nation," also known as Cub fans wearing Red Sox shirts, was out in full force today. I hate those douchebags. There's nothing worse than those clowns leaving our ballpark happy. ****ing bull****. Go back to Addison and stay there, turds. It really pisses me off that some of those folks got the Frank Thomas statues. Those are probably on eBay already. Sickening.

Haven't true Red Sox fans said they don't want to be associated with the Cubs? Someone (I'm thinking Fenway) should have talked some sense into some of those people yesterday.

TomBradley72
08-01-2011, 12:04 PM
Rios can't ride the bench at his salary for the next four years. Really, everyone here is worried about this year. But the team has to do what's best long term. Rios is obviously sulking, and it does infuriate me that he's essentially a child. But sitting on the bench isn't going to help him grow up. If he hasn't grown up by now, it's never going to happen. So he has to play until he figures it out. The sulking won't stop unless he's playing regularly, and the other option is you keep a player on your bench at more than $12 million a year who's always gonna dog it, and be obvious about it. Which turns our roster into 24 players, and puts us at a huge disadvantage every time we take the field.

They're not releasing Vizquel. Viciedo will be up in September, not a day sooner.

I'm sorry- but in any organization laziness/apathy cannot be tolerated- appeasing Rios only makes it worse- he's still apathetic/shows zero evidence of changing- but by there being NO consequences to his actions- you poison the entire team as well as the fan base.

He deserves to be benched until he turns his act around or we're eliminated from contention- since we're going to be stuck with this contract for years to come- he can still get a chance to regain his starting role in spring training next year- but he's completely embarrassing Ozzie, Kenny and his team- I simply don't buy the "keep trotting him out there" strategy- not for him and not for Rios- maybe in May/June- but it's August with 8-9 weeks to go.

blandman
08-01-2011, 12:13 PM
And how is Rios' "sulking" affecting the other players and the clubhouse, he wondered outloud and what kind of example is that showing to the guys on the club who do care if he's allowed to dog it yet still play simply because the Sox owe him a lot of money???

Lip

I'm sorry- but in any organization laziness/apathy cannot be tolerated- appeasing Rios only makes it worse- he's still apathetic/shows zero evidence of changing- but by there being NO consequences to his actions- you poison the entire team as well as the fan base.

He deserves to be benched until he turns his act around or we're eliminated from contention- since we're going to be stuck with this contract for years to come- he can still get a chance to regain his starting role in spring training next year- but he's completely embarrassing Ozzie, Kenny and his team- I simply don't buy the "keep trotting him out there" strategy- not for him and not for Rios- maybe in May/June- but it's August with 8-9 weeks to go.

I understand your points, I just see this as a no win situation. Because you can't punish him if you want him to get out of it. And that does affect the rest of the team, yes. But this team isn't going anywhere, and Rios is going to outlast the rest of the team too. It's a horrible, horrible situation with no right answer. Blaming Ozzie is just not realistic. There's plenty of other things to blame him for, this is not one of them.

GlassSox
08-01-2011, 02:06 PM
Rios can't ride the bench at his salary for the next four years. Really, everyone here is worried about this year. But the team has to do what's best long term. Rios is obviously sulking, and it does infuriate me that he's essentially a child. But sitting on the bench isn't going to help him grow up. If he hasn't grown up by now, it's never going to happen. So he has to play until he figures it out. The sulking won't stop unless he's playing regularly, and the other option is you keep a player on your bench at more than $12 million a year who's always gonna dog it, and be obvious about it. Which turns our roster into 24 players, and puts us at a huge disadvantage every time we take the field.

They're not releasing Vizquel. Viciedo will be up in September, not a day sooner.

Huh, so it's "never going to happen" "so he has to play"??????????????

If it's "never going to happen" then bench Rios and play De Aza and hopefully develope a younger player who so far shows a positive attitude. Let's see how De Aza develops.

blandman
08-01-2011, 02:33 PM
Huh, so it's "never going to happen" "so he has to play"??????????????

If it's "never going to happen" then bench Rios and play De Aza and hopefully develope a younger player who so far shows a positive attitude. Let's see how De Aza develops.

Growing up and figuring out what's wrong with his swing are worlds apart. His sulking has nothing to do with his hitting, and everything to do with being benched.

GlassSox
08-01-2011, 02:39 PM
Growing up and figuring out what's wrong with his swing are worlds apart. His sulking has nothing to do with his hitting, and everything to do with being benched.

It is all about sulking and growing up and being an adult. Also his lazy ass defense is as bad as his lack of offense. So do not give De Aza big league development time and let Rios hurt the team?

Aesero
08-01-2011, 02:50 PM
I remember a team last year that decided to bench high paid players that were underperforming all season. It worked out well for them. The whole "hes getting paid too much to not play" argument is awful. He is hurting the team every game he is on the field and lowering their chance to win. There is also a viable everyday replacement available sitting on the bench. Next year you hope things turn around. You hope Dunn does more work in the offseason and Rios changes his swing. For right now you play to win. Put your best players on the field and stop worry about their feelings getting hurt.

blandman
08-01-2011, 03:04 PM
I remember a team last year that decided to bench high paid players that were underperforming all season. It worked out well for them. The whole "hes getting paid too much to not play" argument is awful. He is hurting the team every game he is on the field and lowering their chance to win. There is also a viable everyday replacement available sitting on the bench. Next year you hope things turn around. You hope Dunn does more work in the offseason and Rios changes his swing. For right now you play to win. Put your best players on the field and stop worry about their feelings getting hurt.

Are you referring to the Giants sitting Zito for the playoffs? Because that's worlds apart from an every day guy sitting on the bench half a season on a team going nowhere with no viable alternatives. What does sitting Rios really do? De Aza is not the answer, there are no prospects in our system that can play center, and the trade deadline passed. If you traded for Rasmus, maybe then benching Rios for four years makes sense. But right now, why piss him off? That's just going to make things worse. If you play him, there's always the chance he rebounds.

Aesero
08-01-2011, 03:16 PM
Are you referring to the Giants sitting Zito for the playoffs? Because that's worlds apart from an every day guy sitting on the bench half a season on a team going nowhere with no viable alternatives. What does sitting Rios really do? De Aza is not the answer, there are no prospects in our system that can play center, and the trade deadline passed. If you traded for Rasmus, maybe then benching Rios for four years makes sense. But right now, why piss him off? That's just going to make things worse. If you play him, there's always the chance he rebounds.

Aaron Rowand. Another highly paid underperforming center fielder! How do we know De Aza is not the answer? Do we just look at players who were doing well in AAA and say that there's no way they can perform at a major league level because they haven't made a name for themselves yet?

Right now it would be very hard for a player to do worse than Rios. This goes for both fielding and hitting. So here's a thought: try someone else. What's the worst that can happen? De Aza bats .200? Hey that's good enough to start everyday on the White Sox!

Tornoto had no issue with benching Rios. Hell they gave him away. I guess they could see a problem and felt they'd be better off without him. Play to win baseball games. Stop worrying about hurting feelings and win. Rios is a big boy, I'm sure he will understand.

Brian26
08-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Probably because Francona thought Ozzie had lost his mind.

When Ozzie pinch-hit Pierzynski for Lillibridge, he used his backup catcher. I believe that Lillibridge is also the emergency catcher, though I've heard Harrelson mention that Ramirez was also the emergency catcher at one time.

When Dunn moved to 1B, he lost his DH. His pitcher was now scheduled to hit fourth in the bottom of the ninth and De Aza was his only bench player left.

All this in a one run game.

I was praying for the Sox to tie it in the bottom of the ninth and then have Pierzynski unable to play for one reason or another. I wouldn't wish an injury, but if he wasn't able to go we'd have had pitchers playing positions and no catcher.

Of course, the run the Red Sox pushed across in the top of the ninth made it impossible for the Sox to tie it. But it would have been worth the $61 I paid for bleacher seat yesterday to witness that potential circus.

Didn't Flowers get moved to 1B for some time while he was in the Braves organization? Wouldn't it have been better to move him to 1B to keep both catcher's in the line-up in case of emergency? Am I missing something here?

I thought the easy answer was for AJ to borrow someone's mitt and go play first. Having never played there, he's still probably the 2nd best first baseman the Sox have on the team. Save the DH, save the backup catcher, makes too much sense, I guess.

Nellie_Fox
08-01-2011, 11:54 PM
I was praying for the Sox to tie it in the bottom of the ninth and then have Pierzynski unable to play for one reason or another. I wouldn't wish an injury, but if he wasn't able to go we'd have had pitchers playing positions and no catcher.You were praying for the situation to get worse for the Sox, just for your amusement? Very nice.

asindc
08-02-2011, 08:21 AM
You were praying for the situation to get worse for the Sox, just for your amusement? Very nice.

Well, a couple of posters a couple of years back actually wished for Wise to play lousy when he played for us, so there you have it.