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View Full Version : Judgment Night---where do you stand?


Nelfox02
07-30-2011, 11:15 PM
Blow it up? (not just something like trade Thornton, I mean Kenny is on the phone trying to move any piece possible) or stay the course and try to win this division of mediocrity!!!!!

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-30-2011, 11:23 PM
With the moves Cleveland and Detroit have made, I don't see how the Sox can really compete unless key parts of that lineup start hitting. They're just too damn inconsistent. I'm leaning towards a youth movement, led by the likes of Konerko and Buehrle. Trade Danks, Q and get some prospects that can compete and bring life into this team.

DickAllen72
07-30-2011, 11:44 PM
Make as many trades as possible and try to win the division.

doublem23
07-30-2011, 11:46 PM
I don't understand what yes and no mean.

I'm for the Sox just going for the division in 2011... A) I still like making the playoffs, even if it is only a three-and-out and B) I don't trust KW to acquire useful pieces for our players, anyway.

gosox41
07-30-2011, 11:50 PM
Blow it up? (not just something like trade Thornton, I mean Kenny is on the phone trying to move any piece possible) or stay the course and try to win this division of mediocrity!!!!!

Here's my logic:

It usually helps to score runs to win baseball games.
This team can't score runs.
If this team can't score runs, they aren't going to win many games.

Blow it up!!!

Seriously the only way not to is because:
1. Fear of negative fan reaction due to a second white flag trade
2. If some of you have actually seen signs of this offense coming around.


Bob

dickallen15
07-30-2011, 11:53 PM
Pitching wins. They are 3 out and can't possibly hit any worse. A surrender now would be worse than the White Flag Trade. Try to win. If you want to trade guys for prospects, you can still do it in the offseason.

Noneck
07-30-2011, 11:57 PM
This is impossible to answer without info we are not privy to. Like what can be obtained for certain players, will certain players give up no trade clauses and of course most importantly what their financial situation actually is.

CHISOXFAN13
07-30-2011, 11:58 PM
Pitching wins. They are 3 out and can't possibly hit any worse. A surrender now would be worse than the White Flag Trade. Try to win. If you want to trade guys for prospects, you can still do it in the offseason.

We've all said it the whole season and they continue to score three or less runs every night out.

It's not early, so I'm not buying the offense can't be worse argument anymore. It has been consistently awful all season and now Quentin is on one of his **** streaks again.

DirtySox
07-31-2011, 12:01 AM
Average team is average and will continue to be average. Blow it up.

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2011, 12:04 AM
I would try to dump some salary and get some young talent by trading Quentin and Thornton but that is about it. I don't think that necessarily means throwing the towel in though.

thomas35forever
07-31-2011, 12:05 AM
As long as we're still in striking distance, I don't think JR is willing to sign off on another White Flag Trade after the bad publicity of the last one. To be honest though, I can't take a firm stance on either side.

captain54
07-31-2011, 12:09 AM
Pitching wins.

the Sox have good pitching and I wouldn't necessarily call them a winning team

Boondock Saint
07-31-2011, 12:10 AM
Sell them the **** off. The guys you have aren't good enough, and even if you get more guys, Ozzie will manage them into a hole every game, whether it be by horrendous lineups, bad bullpen moves, or playing Alex Rios in center when it's clear to everybody under the sun that he just doesn't give a ****.

Get what you can for whomever you can, then fire Ozzie and start fresh next season.

DirtySox
07-31-2011, 12:15 AM
This is pretty hilarious:


http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/533041789/Kenny_normal.jpg
Ken_Rosenthal (http://twitter.com/#%21/Ken_Rosenthal) Ken Rosenthal
#WhiteSox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23WhiteSox) seeking rotation depth. Traded Jackson to save money, now concerned they're too thin. #tradedeadline (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23tradedeadline) #MLB (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23MLB)
1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/Ken_Rosenthal/status/97515146812989441) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

WhiteSox5187
07-31-2011, 12:22 AM
This is pretty hilarious:




Well done Kenny. Well done.

DickAllen72
07-31-2011, 12:26 AM
Jackson is a Boras client and he was as good as gone after the season. KW shed his salary along with getting rid of Teahen's bad contract and in return got a solid bullpen piece and a starting pitcher prospect. Now he's looking to add a starter that will be with the team for a while. Makes sense to me.

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 12:28 AM
Sell them the **** off. The guys you have aren't good enough, and even if you get more guys, Ozzie will manage them into a hole every game, whether it be by horrendous lineups, bad bullpen moves, or playing Alex Rios in center when it's clear to everybody under the sun that he just doesn't give a ****.

Get what you can for whomever you can, then fire Ozzie and start fresh next season.

Blow up this roster and give Ozzie his kind of team. Owens, Erstad, Wise in the outfield; Andy Gonzalez, Cintron, Ozuna, Kotsay in the infield; Alomar catching. Bring 'em all back. It's only fair to Ozzie after all he's done for the franchise.

Tragg
07-31-2011, 12:30 AM
Jackson is a Boras client and he was as good as gone after the season. KW shed his salary along with getting rid of Teahen's bad contract and in return got a solid bullpen piece and a starting pitcher prospect. Now he's looking to add a starter that will be with the team for a while. Makes sense to me.

Is now the time to do that? To get a cost-controlled starter? When prices are at a max?

DirtySox
07-31-2011, 12:31 AM
Jackson is a Boras client and he was as good as gone after the season. KW shed his salary along with getting rid of Teahen's bad contract and in return got a solid bullpen piece and a starting pitcher prospect. Now he's looking to add a starter that will be with the team for a while. Makes sense to me.

Acquiring a talented starter in a scarce market that's under team control at the trade deadline doesn't sound like the smartest idea to me.

DickAllen72
07-31-2011, 12:36 AM
Is now the time to do that? To get a cost-controlled starter? When prices are at a max?
Maybe not. Let's see what happens by tomorrow first and then judge. Maybe KW is trying to get Beachy for Quentin or a young starter prospect for Thornton. I don't know and neither does Rosenthal.

Boondock Saint
07-31-2011, 12:39 AM
This is pretty hilarious:




Jesus Christ. I usually defend KW, but this is indefensible.

I'm so angry at this team right now. Damn it.

DickAllen72
07-31-2011, 12:40 AM
I usually defend KW, but this is indefensible.
Did you want them to hold on to Jackson and along with him, Teahen?

SI1020
07-31-2011, 12:47 AM
Jackson is a Boras client and he was as good as gone after the season. KW shed his salary along with getting rid of Teahen's bad contract and in return got a solid bullpen piece and a starting pitcher prospect. Now he's looking to add a starter that will be with the team for a while. Makes sense to me. Very little this management team does anymore makes the slightest bit of sense to me.

Boondock Saint
07-31-2011, 12:47 AM
Did you want them to hold on to Jackson and along with him, Teahen?

If you're going to get dog**** for him, then hell yes I want the Sox to hold onto him! If it's going to force the Sox spend more prospects to fill a hole in the rotation because they're now "thin" instead of fixing the NUMEROUS lineup holes, then HELL YES I want the Sox to hold onto them!

TheOldRoman
07-31-2011, 12:50 AM
Jesus Christ. I usually defend KW, but this is indefensible.

I'm so angry at this team right now. Damn it.That's ridiculous. This is the trade deadline, where lots of crap flies around. Also, Rosenthal is far from infallible when it comes to trade rumors. If the Sox trade valuable pieces to get starting pitching, then be angry at the team. Don't be angry because Ken Rosenthal heard from someone that the Sox are supposedly seeking another starter because they hadn't previously evaluated the talent on their roster until after tonight's game.

ChiSoxGirl
07-31-2011, 12:51 AM
Jackson is a Boras client and he was as good as gone after the season. KW shed his salary along with getting rid of Teahen's bad contract and in return got a solid bullpen piece and a starting pitcher prospect. Now he's looking to add a starter that will be with the team for a while. Makes sense to me.

Jesus Christ. I usually defend KW, but this is indefensible.

I'm so angry at this team right now. Damn it.

My initial thought when reading Rosenthal's tweet was similar to that of Boondock Saint. I sat here and shook my head, wondering how stupid Kenny could be for trading an innings-eater in Jackson, particularly with Humber beginning to show signs of fatigue, being ever-so-close to his season high in innings pitched. But then I thought about it for a minute and remembered the facts that DickAllen72 posted. There was no way the Sox were going to bring Edwin back for 2012 and beyond because of who his agent is and the fact that he'd likely try and get more money for Jackson than he's already making this season.

An especially bright side to that deal with Toronto was unloading Teabag and his burdening contract. It seemed like that dude made one offensive contribution a month. Morel is clearly more talented defensively and with the way our team is built, we need solid defense behind our good starting pitching. Most of our wins have been of the 5-4, 3-2, 4-2 variety and that's because the rotation and bullpen have been pretty solid. No way should Brent have been splitting time at third with Teabag.

DickAllen72
07-31-2011, 12:55 AM
If you're going to get dog**** for him, then hell yes I want the Sox to hold onto him! If it's going to force the Sox spend more prospects to fill a hole in the rotation because they're now "thin" instead of fixing the NUMEROUS lineup holes, then HELL YES I want the Sox to hold onto them!
My guess is that KW will try to trade Thornton for a starting pitcher prospect. Also, there's been the rumor floating around for weeks about Q for Beachy. I sincerely doubt KW is going to trade a good prospect for an innings eater to take Jackson's place.

JB98
07-31-2011, 01:02 AM
This is impossible to answer without info we are not privy to. Like what can be obtained for certain players, will certain players give up no trade clauses and of course most importantly what their financial situation actually is.

Yeah, I'd go along with this. I'm not opposed to making trades, but they have to be good trades. I don't want to see Quentin and/or Thornton dealt for more middle relievers or back-end starters.

I'll take somebody who can play 3B, a catching prospect, or someone who projects as a high-end starter.

russ99
07-31-2011, 01:02 AM
Blow up this roster and give Ozzie his kind of team. Owens, Erstad, Wise in the outfield; Andy Gonzalez, Cintron, Ozuna, Kotsay in the infield; Alomar catching. Bring 'em all back. It's only fair to Ozzie after all he's done for the franchise.

Why would this post surprise me coming from you? Yeah give Ozzie his kind of team:

Like a real lead off man, a good contact hitter with some speed in the two spot, a high average hitter in the three spot, two power hitters who can hit for both average and power, two decent hitters who can drive runs in, and a speed /contact guy at the bottom of the order.

Has Ozzie gotten that at any point in his managerial career except for 2005 and maybe 2006? No.

Every player you mentioned was a stopgap because Kenny wouldn't get those kinds of players or Jerry wouldn't pay for those kinds of players.

HomeFish
07-31-2011, 01:15 AM
This team needs to be blown up. We have no farm system to speak of. We've been burned the last two seasons where we were in contention right at the deadline and then fell apart shortly thereafter.

Boondock Saint
07-31-2011, 01:15 AM
Why would this post surprise me coming from you? Yeah give Ozzie his kind of team:

Like a real lead off man, a good contact hitter with some speed in the two spot, a high average hitter in the three spot, two power hitters who can hit for both average and power, two decent hitters who can drive runs in, and a speed /contact guy at the bottom of the order.

Has Ozzie gotten that at any point in his managerial career except for 2005 and maybe 2006? No.

Every player you mentioned was a stopgap because Kenny wouldn't get those kinds of players or Jerry wouldn't pay for those kinds of players.

Pot, meet kettle.

SI1020
07-31-2011, 01:22 AM
This team needs to be blown up. We have no farm system to speak of. We've been burned the last two seasons where we were in contention right at the deadline and then fell apart shortly thereafter. Blown up by the GM who did so much to cause this mess? Then managed by the guy who has become Bevington-esque in his incompetence? As Ollie once said to Stan, "Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into."

Tragg
07-31-2011, 01:27 AM
Maybe not. Let's see what happens by tomorrow first and then judge. Maybe KW is trying to get Beachy for Quentin or a young starter prospect for Thornton. I don't know and neither does Rosenthal.

That's basically the only scenario...find a team equally as desperate for one of our veterans, like Quentin.

But if we were to trade for a short term veteran, after dealing Jackson, that would be...insanity.

Tragg
07-31-2011, 01:36 AM
Why would this post surprise me coming from you? Yeah give Ozzie his kind of team:

Like a real lead off man, a good contact hitter with some speed in the two spot, a high average hitter in the three spot, two power hitters who can hit for both average and power, two decent hitters who can drive runs in, and a speed /contact guy at the bottom of the order.

Has Ozzie gotten that at any point in his managerial career except for 2005 and maybe 2006? No.

Every player you mentioned was a stopgap because Kenny wouldn't get those kinds of players or Jerry wouldn't pay for those kinds of players.So when he didn't have those players, what did Ozzie do? Put Wise at leadoff, decided Owens was better than Quentin, put "400 hitter" Erstad into the lineup, put Mac into CF, banished Sweeney, grudged with Swisher, etc. etc. He forced his philosophy onto a team that didn't have the talent for it. He banish players because they don't suck up to him, but won't punish lazy efforts.

Williams probably should have gotten some better Ozzie-ball types of players. Or a manager who fit his players.

Nellie_Fox
07-31-2011, 01:38 AM
This team needs to be blown up. We have no farm system to speak of. We've been burned the last two seasons where we were in contention right at the deadline and then fell apart shortly thereafter.When haven't you thought this?

kittle42
07-31-2011, 02:09 AM
Why would this post surprise me coming from you? Yeah give Ozzie his kind of team:

Like a real lead off man, a good contact hitter with some speed in the two spot, a high average hitter in the three spot, two power hitters who can hit for both average and power, two decent hitters who can drive runs in, and a speed /contact guy at the bottom of the order.

Has Ozzie gotten that at any point in his managerial career except for 2005 and maybe 2006? No.

Every player you mentioned was a stopgap because Kenny wouldn't get those kinds of players or Jerry wouldn't pay for those kinds of players.

Ozzie Guillen is not good at the management of professional baseball teams.

kittle42
07-31-2011, 02:10 AM
When haven't you thought this?

The boy who cried wolf was right once.

central44
07-31-2011, 02:22 AM
I'm just not buying that this is a mediocre team that isn't capable of going on a run and winning an awful division. In my mind, this is a talented team that is playing mediocre baseball.

Before blowing up the entire roster and beginning a rebuilding process that could take years, I would at least like to give a new manager/hitting coach a chance with this roster. Especially considering the extremely winnable nature of this division.

I don't know. I'm tired of saying "fire Ozzie, fire Walker," because I don't see it happening. But when so many guys are playing below their career norms, it suggests me that other stuff is going on. Dunn's talent shouldn't have completely disappeared. Rios needs his ass kicked because he clearly doesn't care.

I'm not ready to quit on this group yet, though. Maybe i'm too optimistic but I think this team is more than capable of getting hot and making a run. They're only three games out, it's not exactly asking a lot.

pmck003
07-31-2011, 02:36 AM
I don't know. I'm tired of saying "fire Ozzie, fire Walker," because I don't see it happening. But when so many guys are playing below their career norms, it suggests me that other stuff is going on. .

Dunn and Rios are having great years; Sox are in first and discussions are based around who we should be going after. Those two are the problem. Tired of hearing differently - *** should anyone blame ozzie for? Everything I've seen about Rios points to him being a head case, and 100 theories on Dunn.

If anyone can give me a scenario where those two are having even slightly below average years instead of historically bad; I'd like to hear why ozzie sucks (my comp is messed up I cant capitalize o)

Falstaff
07-31-2011, 02:39 AM
1) Even if somehow the current lineup stumbles into the playoffs, no way no how do they make it to world series. And current lineup likely to decline in skills/performance if unchanged for '12.

2) The other teams that are still "all in" for '11 will be possibly ready to pay a premium price (especially in AAA talent) for some of our proven performers.
Now is an opportunity to start retooling for our next dynasty. IF AND ONLY IF management makes shrewd deals; NOT the usual knee-jerk impulsive finger-crossed hold-nose make a deal just-to-seem-like-we-are-trying.

3) Lets get real sober about reality JR: Kenny/Ozzie/Walker must walk the plank. There needs to be a whole new culture and focus on what it takes to win: every facet of the task. It starts with attitude and ability. Your field mgr and GM no longer have what it takes.

4) This years model is fatally flawed, several ways. If nothing changes, nothing changes. Yes, make some shred trades, and more importantly, put together an organization that can actually rise to new heights. Thanks for the memories ('05) ; but remember even Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis had to eventually part ways to rise to their full potential greatness. Let that be a lesson.

So yeah, blow it up but don't be stupid about it.
At this point I have no sacred cows on this team,
trade them for a crew I can once again care about.

Boondock Saint
07-31-2011, 02:49 AM
Dunn and Rios are having great years; Sox are in first and discussions are based around who we should be going after. Those two are the problem. Tired of hearing differently - *** should anyone blame ozzie for? Everything I've seen about Rios points to him being a head case, and 100 theories on Dunn.

If anyone can give me a scenario where those two are having even slightly below average years instead of historically bad; I'd like to hear why ozzie sucks (my comp is messed up I cant capitalize o)

There are so many reasons. Cramming Wise, Mackowiak, Erstad, Swisher, Griffey, etc, into CF where they don't fit, using Thornton as a LOOGY in 2007 when he was our only reliable non-closer then sticking with him for WAY too long as the closer in 2011 when he couldn't buy an out, continually trotting Cliff Politte out there in '06 because maybe this time he won't crap the bed, cramming crap players into spots in the lineup where they don't belong (Dunn STILL batting 4th), not benching guys when they play like **** (Rios and Pierre early this year, I'm looking at you), "I don't have enough at bats for Jim Thome", but he has PLENTY for Mark Kotsay, etc...

I could go on...

LITTLE NELL
07-31-2011, 07:38 AM
Our pitching and defense have been damn good, if we ever start to hit we should win the division. I don't think we should have traded Jackson. With Peavy still not 100% and Humber looking a little shaky lately trading Jackson was not a good move.

Dan H
07-31-2011, 09:56 AM
Our pitching and defense have been damn good, if we ever start to hit we should win the division. I don't think we should have traded Jackson. With Peavy still not 100% and Humber looking a little shaky lately trading Jackson was not a good move.

I agree with this totally. If Williams thought the Sox had a real chance, trading Jackson was the last thing he should have done. However, we have been waiting for the offense to show up for slightly over 100 games and it still hasn't happened. I don't think it is likely to show up.

Being close is hampering this team because changes need to be made in a significant way. But selling is a hard thing to justify when the club is only three games out.

kufram
07-31-2011, 10:01 AM
Our pitching and defense have been damn good, if we ever start to hit we should win the division. I don't think we should have traded Jackson. With Peavy still not 100% and Humber looking a little shaky lately trading Jackson was not a good move.

This. We had pitching really working for us and we trade a starter. This could end up being the reason we don't win the division. People can bang on about the lack of offense, which is obvious, but we have had great pitching (which is now weakened in my opinion) and good defense. Those are the things that win in the playoffs. Of course we have to get to the playoffs but we've holding our own for weeks now.

Some fans want to blow the team up because they are tired of the lack of run production. I'm tired of it too. But you just are not going to get a good offense wadded together at the trade deadline. You can add a piece or two but what are people going to want for it?.. guess what?.... pitching. The only course in my opinion is to stick it out and tweak the offense as best we can... DeAza, for example, and hope that we get some timely hitting from who we've got.

I'd rather have a new offense, but it just can't happen. Accept it, play DeAza for Rios, get Viciedo up in September and hope we don't play ourselves out of it before then. Pragmatism could be our best option.

Right now I think if the season depends on one thing it is the pitching of Humber and Peavy.

ChiSoxGal85
07-31-2011, 10:38 AM
Our pitching and defense have been damn good, if we ever start to hit we should win the division. I don't think we should have traded Jackson. With Peavy still not 100% and Humber looking a little shaky lately trading Jackson was not a good move.
This. After Humber's last few games, I'm concerned now. He had a two-week rest and still couldn't get past the fifth. I did not mind trading Jackson if Humber can pick it back up - but if he's already out of steam, this is not good. If he continues like this, I wonder if Sale will get a shot at starting.

Red Barchetta
07-31-2011, 11:06 AM
The only problem is that by "blowing it up", you are still most likely left with the underperforming players; Dunn and Rios due to their contracts.

If the KW could move both of them, I would be ecstatic! Not only save some $$$, but replace Dunn with Viciedo on the roster and then rotate through with Quentin for DH. Stick Vizquel and 3B and take a run at division title.

Trading Quentin, Danks, Thornton, etc. and then keeping Rios and Dunn doesn't gain us anything IMO.

kufram
07-31-2011, 11:13 AM
This. After Humber's last few games, I'm concerned now. He had a two-week rest and still couldn't get past the fifth. I did not mind trading Jackson if Humber can pick it back up - but if he's already out of steam, this is not good. If he continues like this, I wonder if Sale will get a shot at starting.

This is the problem now as I see it. With our pitching at it's best we may have very well lost last night but probably not 10-2 and we might have won. It's one game against the best team in the league so I can take a loss to them.

Sale has proven to be very valuable in the late innings and now we may need to move him into the rotation but not for the right reason. Now Peavy's fitness is a real issue.... before we got rid of Jackson we had options.

No matter what happens with Humber now, we know we have a guy that can pitch in the major leagues and be very effective but his move to the bullpen was the right move, I thought. He is in uncharted territory now.

We've tread water until now with the worst hitting I can remember but we will go down without the pitching.

Moses_Scurry
07-31-2011, 12:18 PM
In my opinion, the only guys that can be traded right now that will bring in anything of value are guys I don't want to see traded. I say keep the band together and blow it up in the offseason if they don't won the division. That being said, if Thornton can bring something valuable, do it. If TCQ brings a haul, it had better include somebody who helps THIS YEAR. If some poor sucker of a team will take on Rios's and/or Dunn's contract, you make that trade in an instant. In those 4 trade cases, the team could be improved in the long term without sacrificing 2011 (depending on the return for TCQ).

asindc
07-31-2011, 12:31 PM
This is pretty hilarious:




Well done Kenny. Well done.

Why do you guys assume every tweet you read is true?

asindc
07-31-2011, 12:33 PM
Jesus Christ. I usually defend KW, but this is indefensible.

I'm so angry at this team right now. Damn it.

See previous post.

soxfanatlanta
07-31-2011, 12:40 PM
Dump the salary, stock the minors with what you can get, and invest in some player development (better scouts, coaching, etc.)

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 01:03 PM
This team rises to .500 like a corpse floats to the surface.

RavenswoodFan
07-31-2011, 01:22 PM
After last night's performance, I'm thinking I'll be seeing a different line up against the Yankers on thursday...:?:

russ99
07-31-2011, 01:41 PM
So when he didn't have those players, what did Ozzie do? Put Wise at leadoff, decided Owens was better than Quentin, put "400 hitter" Erstad into the lineup, put Mac into CF, banished Sweeney, grudged with Swisher, etc. etc. He forced his philosophy onto a team that didn't have the talent for it. He banish players because they don't suck up to him, but won't punish lazy efforts.

Williams probably should have gotten some better Ozzie-ball types of players. Or a manager who fit his players.

Keep whining about how Brian Anderson didn't produce enough to play consistently.

Oh wait, he didn't "suck up to" Ozzie, that's gotta be it...

Tragg
07-31-2011, 01:53 PM
Keep whining about how Brian Anderson didn't produce enough to play consistently.

Oh wait, he didn't "suck up to" Ozzie, that's gotta be it...

Anderson didn't do much, but he did one thing: produced more than Wise, his replacement, and Ozzie's lead-off hitter.

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 05:11 PM
Cheap and Stupid has now been replaced by Dumb and Dumber.

DSpivack
07-31-2011, 05:16 PM
Cheap and Stupid has now been replaced by Dumb and Dumber.

At least get the old meme right, it was cheap, timid & stupid! :tongue:

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 05:23 PM
At least get the old meme right, it was cheap, timid & stupid! :tongue:

Fine. Dumb, timid and dumber.

TDog
07-31-2011, 07:51 PM
Dump the salary, stock the minors with what you can get, and invest in some player development (better scouts, coaching, etc.)

The best way to dump salary would be to place Dunn on the irrevocable waiver wire and hope someone claims him. Rios might be a candidate for that as well, a he was with the Blue Jays.

Stocking the minors is what perennial losers do year after year. People get excited when a few prospects come up and play well, but in the end you are probably worse off than where you started. And you wouldn't get White Sox fans excited enough to come out to the park if you're not contending.

The Sox got some highly regarded prospects in the White Flag Trade, none more so than Lorenzo Barcelo. But it did not lay the foundation for the 2000 title.

Lip Man 1
07-31-2011, 07:59 PM
This team should have had changes done to it when they lost 17 of 21 and found themselves behind the eight ball at the start of the season for the 5th consecutive year.

Lip

DSpivack
07-31-2011, 08:06 PM
The best way to dump salary would be to place Dunn on the irrevocable waiver wire and hope someone claims him. Rios might be a candidate for that as well, a he was with the Blue Jays.

Stocking the minors is what perennial losers do year after year. People get excited when a few prospects come up and play well, but in the end you are probably worse off than where you started. And you wouldn't get White Sox fans excited enough to come out to the park if you're not contending.

The Sox got some highly regarded prospects in the White Flag Trade, none more so than Lorenzo Barcelo. But it did not lay the foundation for the 2000 title.

I don't think any team is dumb enough to claim either one of those clowns.

A. Cavatica
07-31-2011, 08:34 PM
I don't think any team is dumb enough to claim either one of those clowns.

Not sure about that. Hahn might put them on waivers and Kenny might claim them an hour later.

soxfanreggie
07-31-2011, 10:37 PM
We don't have too many pieces that people will want that we're also going to get a good return for. I doubt MB leaves, and his deal for $15 million next year vests if he's traded. Thus, I could only see the Cards taking him and only if he re-works that deal for next year. Maybe he'd have to add a year or two and lower the hit for next year. Other pieces: Quentin and Thornton...if we're blowing things up, get whatever you can for Quentin as he's going to probably ask for a hefty raise next year and bring up Viciedo to see what he has.

Make a run with what we have and try to figure out what we're going to do for the future with the leadoff position, a catcher for the future, 3B, and starters (give Sale a chance to start the year, re-sign Humber, and try to re-sign Danks).

DSpivack
07-31-2011, 10:48 PM
Not sure about that. Hahn might put them on waivers and Kenny might claim them an hour later.

:rolling:

TDog
08-01-2011, 12:47 AM
I don't think any team is dumb enough to claim either one of those clowns.

Now that the Yankees have Marquez back (at least the Yankees had him last time I checked), the Sox could trade Dunn for Marquez the way they traded Swisher for Marquez to get Swisher off the team without eating his salary. The problem is that I doubt Marquez could clear waivers.

The problem is, the White Sox can't effectively dump salary because they can't get rid of the salaries of Rios and Dunn.

JB98
08-01-2011, 12:51 AM
Now that the Yankees have Marquez back (at least the Yankees had him last time I checked), the Sox could trade Dunn for Marquez the way they traded Swisher for Marquez to get Swisher off the team without eating his salary. The problem is that I doubt Marquez could clear waivers.

The problem is, the White Sox can't effectively dump salary because they can't get rid of the salaries of Rios and Dunn.

Marquez is on the disabled list with shoulder trouble. He is with the Yankees.

Noneck
08-01-2011, 01:04 AM
The best way to dump salary would be to place Dunn on the irrevocable waiver wire and hope someone claims him. Rios might be a candidate for that as well, a he was with the Blue Jays.



They both may be already on it, no way of knowing that though.

soxfanreggie
08-01-2011, 01:33 AM
They both may be already on it, no way of knowing that though.

I bet Rios is put through, and I bet nobody puts in a claim.

Nellie_Fox
08-01-2011, 01:44 AM
I bet Rios is put through, and I bet nobody puts in a claim.You're most likely correct. I'd be very surprised if anybody claimed him, and if they did, I'd expect Kenny to say "take him."

But so what? If nobody claimed him, he and his contract are here.

voodoochile
08-01-2011, 02:14 AM
You're most likely correct. I'd be very surprised if anybody claimed him, and if they did, I'd expect Kenny to say "take him."

But so what? If nobody claimed him, he and his contract are here.

Well if they can get him through waivers then maybe someone will trade on the theory he needs a change of scenery if the Sox eat a fat chunk of salary - say $5M a year for the remainder of his contract.

Probably not but it can't hurt to try...

SoxSpeed22
08-01-2011, 03:23 AM
Quentin and Thorny are guys that you can trade in November so there was really no hurry to trade those guys. It is possible to trade someone else with a waiver, but I don't see anyone else that other teams would actually want. Crain might be interesting for other teams who want to take on his contract.

kaufsox
08-01-2011, 10:21 AM
Pitching wins.

Actually, the team with the most runs wins and the Sox are as often as not the team with fewer runs. They are a .500 team, give or take a game, and by not making any moves, they will continue to shuffle along.

asindc
08-01-2011, 10:25 AM
Blow it up? (not just something like trade Thornton, I mean Kenny is on the phone trying to move any piece possible) or stay the course and try to win this division of mediocrity!!!!!

What does "yes" or "no" in the poll choices mean in this context?

Nelfox02
08-01-2011, 01:04 PM
What does "yes" or "no" in the poll choices mean in this context?

sorry, should have put more info----yes means BLOW IT UP no means stand pat and win with what we have

I guess Kenny and Co. voted no

soxfanreggie
08-01-2011, 01:16 PM
Well if they can get him through waivers then maybe someone will trade on the theory he needs a change of scenery if the Sox eat a fat chunk of salary - say $5M a year for the remainder of his contract.

Probably not but it can't hurt to try...

If he was playing like he was last year, I could see another team taking him for us paying $4 million in each of the remaining years ($12 million commitment). Now, with the reports about him dogging it and being in the doghouse, along with his current production, we might have to be on the hook for $18-21 million to get someone to take him. The new club would still be on the hook for $20 or so million over the 3 years (assuming the $1 million buyout is paid in 2015.

However, if we would be willing to pay $5 million a year to get rid of him, I doubt we balk at $6 million.

I would have loved to get someone like Michael Bourn in here though. He would give us a CF for the future that could also take that leadoff spot. My main concerns for next year (in the field concerns) are CF and C. I'm not sure what we're going to do once AJ's deal is up after next year (or heaven help us...gets injured), but we have to find an alternative.

voodoochile
08-01-2011, 04:00 PM
If he was playing like he was last year, I could see another team taking him for us paying $4 million in each of the remaining years ($12 million commitment). Now, with the reports about him dogging it and being in the doghouse, along with his current production, we might have to be on the hook for $18-21 million to get someone to take him. The new club would still be on the hook for $20 or so million over the 3 years (assuming the $1 million buyout is paid in 2015.

However, if we would be willing to pay $5 million a year to get rid of him, I doubt we balk at $6 million.

I would have loved to get someone like Michael Bourn in here though. He would give us a CF for the future that could also take that leadoff spot. My main concerns for next year (in the field concerns) are CF and C. I'm not sure what we're going to do once AJ's deal is up after next year (or heaven help us...gets injured), but we have to find an alternative.

Actually the reports of him dogging it might contribute to the idea that he needs a change of scenery.