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Sockinchisox
07-28-2011, 01:25 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/ken_rosenthal/status/96630168222830592

Holdup is for Viciedo's thumb.

Taliesinrk
07-28-2011, 01:28 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/ken_rosenthal/status/96630168222830592

is this the link you meant to post? I don't see anything about Quentin or the Braves.

EDIT: haha. you beat me to it.

KMcMahon817
07-28-2011, 01:29 PM
https://twitter.com/#!/ken_rosenthal/status/96630168222830592

Holdup is for Viciedo's thumb.

Meh. Make them WAYYYY overpay. Beachy and their top position player prospect or tell them to hit the road.

shes
07-28-2011, 01:33 PM
Is Wren anything like KW? Will he give us Teheran or Freeman for TCQ? :tongue:

KMcMahon817
07-28-2011, 01:33 PM
Meh. Make them WAYYYY overpay. Beachy and their top position player prospect or tell them to hit the road.

After looking at BA's top prospects for ATL, there are only 2 position players in the top 10. One of them is Freddy Freeman and the other is shortstop.

Give us Teheran and Beachy or take a hike.

DirtySox
07-28-2011, 01:33 PM
Meh. Make them WAYYYY overpay. Beachy and their top position player prospect or tell them to hit the road.

Braves have tons of young fantastic arms. Beachy isn't even that desirable compared to what they have stashed in the minors. Atlanta is a great trade partner.

GoSox4
07-28-2011, 01:38 PM
Jair Jurrjens would be nice

CHISOXFAN13
07-28-2011, 01:38 PM
Jair Jurrjens would be nice

Why would the Braves trade their best starter?

kittle42
07-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Jair Jurrjens would be nice

It would be Beachy, Minor or Teheran - hopefully one of the last two. It would make zero sense at all for the Braves to part with Jurrjens.

DirtySox
07-28-2011, 01:46 PM
BenBadler (http://twitter.com/#%21/BenBadler) Ben Badler
If I'm the White Sox, I tell the Braves that if they want Quentin, start with Vizcaino or Delgado. Otherwise don't bother
1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/BenBadler/status/96637245079044096) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

shes
07-28-2011, 01:47 PM
Braves have tons of young fantastic arms. Beachy isn't even that desirable compared to what they have stashed in the minors. Atlanta is a great trade partner.

I agree. They may have the best stock of arms in the minors of any MLB team, or at least of any possible trading partner. While we don't desperately need an arm, if their surplus causes them to overpay and give us an A+ pitching prospect like Teheran, I'm all for it.

I disagree about Beachy, though. It's rare for a guy to come into the majors and right away have such command to go along with his "good stuff." He's got a 3.54 K/BB ratio (league average is 2.3), and his history in the minors suggests he's likely to improve on that. That's elite, and at worst will make him a middle-of-the-rotation guy going forward. I wouldn't mind at all if Beachy was the centerpiece of a trade for TCQ.

kittle42
07-28-2011, 01:53 PM
Trading Quentin to the Braves and getting one of their top prospects back would be a really good move.

But this board will blow up in negativity when it happens.

shes
07-28-2011, 01:57 PM
Trading Quentin to the Braves and getting one of their top prospects back would be a really good move.

But this board will blow up in negativity when it happens.

Right on both counts. When we finish 5 games out at the end of the year, it'll be because we traded away the player that would've put us over the top.

DirtySox
07-28-2011, 01:58 PM
Trading Quentin to the Braves and getting one of their top prospects back would be a really good move.

But this board will blow up in negativity when it happens.

I'll applaud his taking advantage of a seller's market and looking towards the future.

Taliesinrk
07-28-2011, 02:02 PM
Trading Quentin to the Braves and getting one of their top prospects back would be a really good move.

But this board will blow up in negativity when it happens.

Man. I really think it's tough either way. Can't imagine TCQ's value will ever get higher, but at the same time, it's tough trading him now when he's playing so well. How would the Sox react to seeing an OF of TCQ, Viciedo and De Aza or Lillibridge next year, w/ Rios as the 4th OF?

kittle42
07-28-2011, 02:05 PM
How would the Sox react to seeing an OF of TCQ, Viciedo and De Aza or Lillibridge next year, w/ Rios as the 4th OF?

I would like to think they'd acquire someone else (not de Aza or Lilly).

kaufsox
07-28-2011, 02:11 PM
with the names being mentioned, I hope the Sox make one of these deals. It's time to start thinking 2012, provided the Aztecs were incorrect.

gr8mexico
07-28-2011, 02:20 PM
I'll applaud his taking advantage of a seller's market and looking towards the future.
If the Sox can pull off a trade with the Braves for younger Arms then the Sox can look to also trade Floyd or Danks. Zack Stewart can fill in this year and then Chris Sale can take over at SP next year.

Soxfest
07-28-2011, 02:35 PM
Trade CQ for the young arms, DV can plug into RF and BL can play until DV is 100%.

Tragg
07-28-2011, 02:42 PM
Well, if we trade him, we should get a great return as Atlanta and Philly want him.
Nothing less than an A prospect (and some other stuff)

Sockinchisox
07-28-2011, 02:45 PM
@Dejan_Kovacevic
Dejan Kovacevic
#Pirates have inquired on #WhiteSox OF Carlos Quentin. Asking price astronomical. Sounds unlikely, to say the least. #tradedeadline

SoxNation05
07-28-2011, 02:46 PM
I'm really a win-now type guy but I'd love to see what we would get for CQ and Thornton. Our two best prospects are waiting in the wings in their positions.

I am sure Viciedo's drop in production would be bad and I would hate to see Carlos go but the salary relief (especially with Thronton) and the young players we could get back might be worth it.

Domeshot17
07-28-2011, 02:49 PM
I'll applaud his taking advantage of a seller's market and looking towards the future.

This is spot on. Its all about winning. If you were to tell me next year, you would have a Rotation of Danks (signed to Buehrle’s 14 mil per)-Sale-Peavy/Humber-Stewart-Teheran with the odd man out (probably, stupidly, Sale) setting up, man would I be excited. That is a rotation that could win for 5 or 6 years and it has guys who could pitch game 1 of the playoffs. That is my biggest complain on this team. If we make the playoffs, who starts game 1? Danks gets no support, Peavy is not 100%, and Buehrle matches up horribly bad with the true number 1s in the league.

Also, your rotation at that point would be Danks (say at 13 mil) Sale (league min)-Peavy (what is he, 18 mil)-Humber (Cheap)-Stewart and Teheran (league min). you only have about 1/3 of the payroll, maybe less, tied up in the rotation. It would allow us to trade Floyd to fill the hole at 3rd or spend on a legit 3b.

This team could be solid, that rotation, with Santos-Thornton-Crain-Frasor-Odd man out- that’s a solid core in the pen. Lineup of De Aza in LF- Alexei SS-Konerko 1b-Dunn DH- Big Bat at 3b-Dayan RF- AJ C-Gordon 2b-Rios CF could win. And it could sustain winning. Winning teams don’t go all youth or all vets, they infuse a good mix of both and that does it.

Sockinchisox
07-28-2011, 02:50 PM
Peter Gammons just tweeted "Q" and thats it...

https://twitter.com/pgammo/status/96652551973376000

MikeKreevich
07-28-2011, 02:52 PM
Trading Quentin to the Braves and getting one of their top prospects back would be a really good move.

But this board will blow up in negativity when it happens.

Why? A prospect is just that. Quentin is an established Top ten power hitter/run producer. What are you concerned with with Carlos. Is it money?

doublem23
07-28-2011, 02:52 PM
Trading Quentin to the Braves and getting one of their top prospects back would be a really good move.

But this board will blow up in negativity when it happens.

I'll applaud his taking advantage of a seller's market and looking towards the future.

For most fans, it's still a tough pill to swallow when you're team seemingly seems disinterested in chasing down a playoff berth when it it so realistically available. The Sox are within striking distance of two pretty unremarkable teams. Though I'd understand why they ended up in this situation, I'd still be unhappy somewhere that they're not making a run for it, especially considering our dysmal play-off record. It's still special any time you get to play in October.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2011, 02:55 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/stark-on-pirates-braves-indians-reds.html

dangling Dunn?

kittle42
07-28-2011, 02:57 PM
Why? A prospect is just that. Quentin is an established Top ten power hitter/run producer. What are you concerned with with Carlos. Is it money?

He's a pretty good player. He's not "Top Ten" or even top 20 in any power/run producing categories in the majors. You trade him because (1) you decide you are not going to win this season; (2) he has value, now, and at his contract, to several teams; (3) you get one of the top 10 pitching prospects in baseball for him, at least.

Teams do this all the time. Just because Kenny likes to wait til guys are worthless to trade them and restock doesn't mean it's right.

dwalteroo
07-28-2011, 02:57 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/stark-on-pirates-braves-indians-reds.html

dangling Dunn?

Please God, yes.

soltrain21
07-28-2011, 03:00 PM
@Dejan_Kovacevic
Dejan Kovacevic
#Pirates have inquired on #WhiteSox OF Carlos Quentin. Asking price astronomical. Sounds unlikely, to say the least. #tradedeadline

I hope we aren't asking for an insane haul that ends up bringing us nothing. The "Washington Nationals" special.

kittle42
07-28-2011, 03:01 PM
I hope we aren't asking for an insane haul that ends up bringing us nothing. The "Washington Nationals" special.

There is one thing to say - we don't *have* to trade Quentin, and thus can ask for an insane haul. It's actually, for once with the damn Sox, a nice position to be in.

Hitmen77
07-28-2011, 03:02 PM
This is spot on. Its all about winning. If you were to tell me next year, you would have a Rotation of Danks (signed to Buehrleís 14 mil per)-Sale-Peavy/Humber-Stewart-Teheran with the odd man out (probably, stupidly, Sale) setting up, man would I be excited. That is a rotation that could win for 5 or 6 years and it has guys who could pitch game 1 of the playoffs. That is my biggest complain on this team. If we make the playoffs, who starts game 1? Danks gets no support, Peavy is not 100%, and Buehrle matches up horribly bad with the true number 1s in the league.

Also, your rotation at that point would be Danks (say at 13 mil) Sale (league min)-Peavy (what is he, 18 mil)-Humber (Cheap)-Stewart and Teheran (league min). you only have about 1/3 of the payroll, maybe less, tied up in the rotation. It would allow us to trade Floyd to fill the hole at 3rd or spend on a legit 3b.

This team could be solid, that rotation, with Santos-Thornton-Crain-Frasor-Odd man out- thatís a solid core in the pen. Lineup of De Aza in LF- Alexei SS-Konerko 1b-Dunn DH- Big Bat at 3b-Dayan RF- AJ C-Gordon 2b-Rios CF could win. And it could sustain winning. Winning teams donít go all youth or all vets, they infuse a good mix of both and that does it.

Is Zach Stewart that highly touted that he's projected to be a solid major league pitcher by next year?

I guess I really haven't heard too much analysis about him because most of the discussion I have seen quickly switched from trading Jackson to "who's next to go?".

BigHurt3515
07-28-2011, 03:05 PM
Is Zach Stewart that highly touted that he's projected to be a solid major league pitcher by next year?

I guess I really haven't heard too much analysis about him because most of the discussion I have seen quickly switched from trading Jackson to "who's next to go?".

They put him as our 4th best prospect if that counts for anything

guillensdisciple
07-28-2011, 03:06 PM
I hope we aren't asking for an insane haul that ends up bringing us nothing. The "Washington Nationals" special.


I think, at the very least, the White Sox should get an A prospect or a top 3 in the organization type of thing. There is no way Quentin is not worth that, and with the fact that a playoff contender/ world series contender would be vying for his services that means they should be even more desperate.

The Nationals were dealing with us who, unfortunately, have very little organizational depth to begin with so it was hard to deal for. Other teams actually have the depth we don't so getting a piece or two for Quentin should not be a problem if we actually put the guy on the market.

guillensdisciple
07-28-2011, 03:07 PM
They put him as our 4th best prospect if that counts for anything


I don't think it does in the case of this organization.Who do you have in front of him? Viciedo, Reed and...?

KMcMahon817
07-28-2011, 03:09 PM
For most fans, it's still a tough pill to swallow when you're team seemingly seems disinterested in chasing down a playoff berth when it it so realistically available. The Sox are within striking distance of two pretty unremarkable teams. Though I'd understand why they ended up in this situation, I'd still be unhappy somewhere that they're not making a run for it, especially considering our dysmal play-off record. It's still special any time you get to play in October.

This pretty much sums up my take on this season. The whole reason you trade established players is to replenish your system w/ young players so that you can WIN A DIVISION in the future. I know this year hasn't been pretty, but who is to say this isn't the future. The SOX are 3.5 games out....the division is there to be won THIS YEAR.

I get why people would want to trade Q to improve the future. But...trading him now effectively lowers the chance of them winning the division pretty significantly.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Domeshot17
07-28-2011, 03:10 PM
They put him as our 4th best prospect if that counts for anything

Many say he shot up to the number 1 in system immediately.

That said, I don't think he will EVER be front line material, I think he is best suited as a set up man because he has a nasty slider, but as the 4/5 I am fine with him in the rotation.

BigHurt3515
07-28-2011, 03:11 PM
I don't think it does in the case of this organization.Who do you have in front of him? Viciedo, Reed and...?

Actually Reed was 9th
It was Viciedo, Escober, Infante

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2011/#list=cws

FielderJones
07-28-2011, 03:27 PM
There is one thing to say - we don't *have* to trade Quentin, and thus can ask for an insane haul. It's actually, for once with the damn Sox, a nice position to be in.

Right now I don't want to trade Quentin, because I think a divisional championship is not out of reach. I hope KW is asking teams to so grossly overpay that, in the event Quentin is traded, it looks like KW took the other GM to the cleaners.

dwalteroo
07-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Right now I don't want to trade Quentin, because I think a divisional championship is not out of reach. I hope KW is asking teams to so grossly overpay that, in the event Quentin is traded, it looks like KW took the other GM to the cleaners.

Concur. I'm on the fence about going for it now or letting big trades happen and retooling for the future. While the division is within reach, it's been within reach for a long time and the Sox haven't done the reaching part.

Kenny is in the driver's seat with TCQ; if he can get the moon for him, then a trade is okay in my book. If not, I say hang onto him and see where we land. He might as well ask for a gross over-payment. He just might get it.

Sockinchisox
07-28-2011, 03:35 PM
@jaysonst
Jayson Stark
Other teams now say #WhiteSox would "absolutely" move Quentin in right deal - but "not bound & determined to move him." More in Daily Rumble

Tragg
07-28-2011, 03:39 PM
@jaysonst
Jayson Stark
Other teams now say #WhiteSox would "absolutely" move Quentin in right deal - but "not bound & determined to move him." More in Daily Rumble

What does "right deal" mean? A ton of young talent or a deal that will allow Williams to rid himself of one of his blunders and take one of the salary albatrosses?

Domeshot17
07-28-2011, 03:40 PM
My take on this all is, we arenít winning a world series this year. We donít have the pieces. We arenít THAT far off from being that calibur of team, but the offense is not clicking, The Starting Pitching has been held together by a magical year from Humber, but hindered by Peavy being about 65%. But it doesnít mean the answer is a long rebuild. We can retool, stay competitive, cut some salary and be prepared for next year. I would expect Dunn to bounce back (especially under a new manager). If trading Carlos does that, so be it. If keeping him does it, so be it. But holding him because we can win a central division by winning 85 games and get swept in round 1 is pointless. If we want to pat ourselves on the back and consider it a success, we would only be kidding ourselves. I would rather miss the playoffs and have a real shot at winning next year versus making it this year, and hearing how management did a great job and therefore we continue with Business as usual.

guillensdisciple
07-28-2011, 03:44 PM
My take on this all is, we arenít winning a world series this year. We donít have the pieces. We arenít THAT far off from being that calibur of team, but the offense is not clicking, The Starting Pitching has been held together by a magical year from Humber, but hindered by Peavy being about 65%. But it doesnít mean the answer is a long rebuild. We can retool, stay competitive, cut some salary and be prepared for next year. I would expect Dunn to bounce back (especially under a new manager). If trading Carlos does that, so be it. If keeping him does it, so be it. But holding him because we can win a central division by winning 85 games and get swept in round 1 is pointless. If we want to pat ourselves on the back and consider it a success, we would only be kidding ourselves. I would rather miss the playoffs and have a real shot at winning next year versus making it this year, and hearing how management did a great job and therefore we continue with Business as usual.

Plus a slight rehaul might actually produce a better result for the year itself. The fact remains that the White Sox are a couple of hitters away from being a division winning baseball team. All we have to do is replace the two dead logs in the line up with Rios and Dunn.

We have a wealth of pitching that we can play with in order to make it work or in house options that we can bring up. You DH Viciedo, and let De Aza play, I guarantee you this team is an above .500 team and winning the division.

Trading Quentin is not a necessity. The Sox have a wealth of starting pitching. Keep the really good hitters you have and try to build your pitching for within while trading some of the successful arms for some good bats.

Scottiehaswheels
07-28-2011, 03:44 PM
My take on this all is, we aren’t winning a world series this year. We don’t have the pieces. We aren’t THAT far off from being that calibur of team, but the offense is not clicking, The Starting Pitching has been held together by a magical year from Humber, but hindered by Peavy being about 65%. But it doesn’t mean the answer is a long rebuild. We can retool, stay competitive, cut some salary and be prepared for next year. I would expect Dunn to bounce back (especially under a new manager). If trading Carlos does that, so be it. If keeping him does it, so be it. But holding him because we can win a central division by winning 85 games and get swept in round 1 is pointless. If we want to pat ourselves on the back and consider it a success, we would only be kidding ourselves. I would rather miss the playoffs and have a real shot at winning next year versus making it this year, and hearing how management did a great job and therefore we continue with Business as usual.
What if we have another exciting game 163? LOL I agree wholeheartedly. This team would have maybe one home game in the playoffs, what's the point?

soltrain21
07-28-2011, 03:44 PM
Plus a slight rehaul might actually produce a better result for the year itself. The fact remains that the White Sox are a couple of hitters away from being a division winning baseball team. All we have to do is replace the two dead logs in the line up with Rios and Dunn.

We have a wealth of pitching that we can play with in order to make it work or in house options that we can bring up. You DH Viciedo, and let De Aza play, I guarantee you this team is an above .500 team and winning the division.

Trading Quentin is not a necessity. The Sox have a wealth of starting pitching. Keep the really good hitters you have and try to build your pitching for within while trading some of the successful arms for some good bats.

You said this the other day, too. Where are you getting this "wealth of pitching" from?

Zisk77
07-28-2011, 03:51 PM
My take on this all is, we arenít winning a world series this year. We donít have the pieces. We arenít THAT far off from being that calibur of team, but the offense is not clicking, The Starting Pitching has been held together by a magical year from Humber, but hindered by Peavy being about 65%. But it doesnít mean the answer is a long rebuild. We can retool, stay competitive, cut some salary and be prepared for next year. I would expect Dunn to bounce back (especially under a new manager). If trading Carlos does that, so be it. If keeping him does it, so be it. But holding him because we can win a central division by winning 85 games and get swept in round 1 is pointless. If we want to pat ourselves on the back and consider it a success, we would only be kidding ourselves. I would rather miss the playoffs and have a real shot at winning next year versus making it this year, and hearing how management did a great job and therefore we continue with Business as usual.

Yes , becasue OG has hindered Dunn. He has benched him and not protected him in the line-up with Paulie and TCQ...oh wait. Gimme a break.

guillensdisciple
07-28-2011, 03:51 PM
You said this the other day, too. Where are you getting this "wealth of pitching" from?

Bullpen is loaded, absolutely loaded at the moment. Frasor, Crain, Santos, Thornton, Ohman, Bruney, Sale.

Starting Pitching, Peavy, Danks, Burls, Floyd, and HUmber.

The success of humber has actually opened up some options in my opinion. You are trying to cut payroll right or improve well you have two expiring contracts in Burls and Danks who are most likely not going to resign unless this team begins mashing. Danks especially, who will be paid really well after this year and I don't see us affording him. Sale is a pitcher in waiting and while that means Peavy will actually have to be a better pitcher it will be worth it for the kind of haul Burls or Danks can bring.

hell if you're trying to cut salary, look to ship Floyd whose pitching will probably translate well in the national league where he won't face 9 hitters all the time. That way you can keep this core, pay for the people leaving and get some quality talent in return while replacing the open spot with yesterdays lefty if desired or Sale.

veeter
07-28-2011, 04:00 PM
100% behind trading Quentin for a top pitching prospect. The Sox can win this division with Viciedo in right, IMO. Quentin 's presence doesn't make them AL favorites anyway. Get that arm for the future Kenny.

eriqjaffe
07-28-2011, 04:02 PM
I'm all for trading him. Remember what happened the last time the Sox traded a slugger named Carlos?

amsteel
07-28-2011, 04:02 PM
Not sure if anyone is posted it but according to ESPN Insider's rumor blog the Sox put Dunn's name out there as available.

I can't link it unless your an insider, but I assure you it's there.

Not sure if anyone is dumb enough to go after him, or if it's even true, but apparently he's out there.

Domeshot17
07-28-2011, 04:07 PM
Yes , becasue OG has hindered Dunn. He has benched him and not protected him in the line-up with Paulie and TCQ...oh wait. Gimme a break.

This is just my take and a lot of it is observation or second hand info. I don’t think the clubhouse is a fun atmosphere right now. I have a friend in another front office who said some of the buzz they hear is Ozzie has worn the clubhouse a little thin. Some of the players are used to it, but they said nothing is wrong mechanically with Dunn’s swing, he is just miserable right now and pressing and not enjoying playing the game. He is guy who has to be having fun to be at his best, and it’s been a bad mix of his personality and the clubhouse. I just think another manager may losing him up big time. Also was told Dunn has been putting a ton of blame on himself so this is not a Swisher or Rios situation. Rightfully so, but its really all mental right now with him. That is a good and bad thing. It means physically he has not lost the ability, but also means it isn’t a slight adjustment to get him back.

I personally do not want to give up on him. When he is produces like he can, 240-40-100, from the left side, he is exactly the type of DH that we need. But we need him. We don’t win without him.

SI1020
07-28-2011, 04:16 PM
Trading Quentin to the Braves and getting one of their top prospects back would be a really good move.

But this board will blow up in negativity when it happens. Quentin is my 2nd favorite player on the team, but if the Sox can get a really good prospect and another player, or two legitimate prospects, I promise not to blow up the board

Noneck
07-28-2011, 04:52 PM
I am not a prospect guy. I have seen way too many so called top notch prospects turn out to be nothing. I also understand that this time of year is not the time to get proven talent.

Another thing is the Sox appear to be trying to have it both ways, dump salary, restock for future and give the illusion that they still want to compete this year. IMO this cant be done, its either hoist the flag or go pedal to metal.

SI1020
07-28-2011, 04:55 PM
Most prospects don't work out that is true. It still helps to have a few around and right now the Sox have Viciedo and I'm trying to think of some more. Eventually it all catches up to you and 90-100+ loss seasons start to happen in succession.

Noneck
07-28-2011, 05:00 PM
Eventually it all catches up to you and 90-100+ loss seasons start to happen in succession.

If thats the case then they should do it right, not half ass because doing it half ass wont restock enough in order for this not to happen.

Sockinchisox
07-28-2011, 05:05 PM
FWIW:

JeffSchultzAJC
Jeff Schultz
Frank Wren, Bruce Manno came downstairs, talked to Fredi Gonzalez for 5 mins, went straight back to office. That's all I know. #Braves

WhiteSox5187
07-28-2011, 05:11 PM
My brother just sent me a text saying the Braves made some sort of move? Maybe for Quentin? Take that with a grain of salt.

SI1020
07-28-2011, 05:11 PM
If thats the case then they should do it right, not half ass because doing it half ass wont restock enough in order for this not to happen. I think you are absolutely correct.

kevingrt
07-28-2011, 05:13 PM
FWIW:

JeffSchultzAJC
Jeff Schultz
Frank Wren, Bruce Manno came downstairs, talked to Fredi Gonzalez for 5 mins, went straight back to office. That's all I know. #Braves

Just heard similiar news... maybe Ludwick or Willingham?

SoxSpeed22
07-28-2011, 05:40 PM
*edit* probably not

Taliesinrk
07-28-2011, 05:48 PM
It was Logan Morrison?
http://twitter.com/#!/LoMoMarlins/status/96685040980852736 (http://twitter.com/#%21/LoMoMarlins/status/96685040980852736)

What? No. This should be in teal, right? They have a series starting tomorrow.

soltrain21
07-28-2011, 05:52 PM
It was Logan Morrison?
http://twitter.com/#!/LoMoMarlins/status/96685040980852736 (http://twitter.com/#%21/LoMoMarlins/status/96685040980852736)

I don't think so. He is talking about saying goodbye to the mantis that attacked him.

Gavin
07-28-2011, 05:56 PM
Three measly games out of first and KW's gonna give up a guaranteed 92% playoff game 1 (and only game 1) capacity by trading TCQ.

kevingrt
07-28-2011, 05:59 PM
Three measly games out of first and KW's gonna give up a guaranteed 92% playoff game 1 (and only game 1) capacity by trading TCQ.

Explain further...

Gavin
07-28-2011, 06:00 PM
Explain further...

Sorry, a 92% capacity crowd will show up to see the Sox get swept in game 3 of the ALDS.

soltrain21
07-28-2011, 06:00 PM
Three measly games out of first and KW's gonna give up a guaranteed 92% playoff game 1 (and only game 1) capacity by trading TCQ.

Sorry, a 92% capacity crowd will show up to see the Sox get swept in game 3 of the ALDS.

Still doesn't make sense.

Chipol
07-28-2011, 06:06 PM
It was Logan Morrison?
http://twitter.com/#!/LoMoMarlins/status/96685040980852736 (http://twitter.com/#%21/LoMoMarlins/status/96685040980852736)

This means that Atl decided to shop elsewhere?

Marqhead
07-28-2011, 06:06 PM
Still doesn't make sense.

It's a joke, just not a very clear one.

kevingrt
07-28-2011, 06:09 PM
Sorry, a 92% capacity crowd will show up to see the Sox get swept in game 3 of the ALDS.

Well with dynamic ticket pricing it might be a 62% capacity crowd.

Taliesinrk
07-28-2011, 06:12 PM
This means that Atl decided to shop elsewhere?

No. I don't know if the OP was trying to make a joke or thought this was true, but according to everything we've seen to date, this is very false. Logan Morrison is still a Marlins. They have a series in Atl starting tomorrow.

thomas35forever
07-28-2011, 06:22 PM
Didn't see this posted anywhere, but the Phillies are hot for Q too.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/07/phillies-interested-in-carlos-quentin.html

BigHurt3515
07-28-2011, 06:24 PM
I know in the rumor it said the hold up with trading Q was Viciedo's thumb injury.. Does anyone know the condition of Viciedo and how much longer he is out for?

JB98
07-28-2011, 06:40 PM
There is one thing to say - we don't *have* to trade Quentin, and thus can ask for an insane haul. It's actually, for once with the damn Sox, a nice position to be in.

This is correct. Both Atlanta and Philadelphia want Quentin. KW should try to create a bidding war between those two clubs. If he doesn't get what he wants, he can walk away.

kevingrt
07-28-2011, 07:08 PM
This is correct. Both Atlanta and Philadelphia want Quentin. KW should try to create a bidding war between those two clubs. If he doesn't get what he wants, he can walk away.

That bidding war is currently taking place for Hunter Pence who now which Jon Morosi is reporting is "likely" to be traded by Sunday.

CHISOXFAN13
07-28-2011, 07:21 PM
That bidding war is currently taking place for Hunter Pence who now which Jon Morosi is reporting is "likely" to be traded by Sunday.

Not a bad thing. The loser of that bidding war is going to need a bat to keep up.

Gavin
07-28-2011, 07:26 PM
It's a joke, just not a very clear one.

It's a joke, just not a very funny one.

Zakath
07-28-2011, 08:34 PM
That bidding war is currently taking place for Hunter Pence who now which Jon Morosi is reporting is "likely" to be traded by Sunday.

Well, according to someone else on this board, Pence is just a so much better RF than Quentin (he and 19 others, apparently), so let them fight it out for him and we keep Carlos.

ghostface36
07-28-2011, 08:43 PM
lol the bidding war is for pence over quentin? thats very strange

A. Cavatica
07-28-2011, 09:24 PM
lol the bidding war is for pence over quentin? thats very strange

mlbtraderumors.com says the Phils offered Jarred Cosart (p), Jonathan Singleton (of), pitching prospect for Pence and were turned down. Would you take that package for Q?

I think I use that package to see what Atlanta can offer, personally.

ghostface36
07-28-2011, 09:35 PM
mlbtraderumors.com says the Phils offered Jarred Cosart (p), Jonathan Singleton (of), pitching prospect for Pence and were turned down. Would you take that package for Q?

I think I use that package to see what Atlanta can offer, personally.
honestly i have no idea who those guys or most other team's prospects are
i think quentin is better then pence though especially if he's gonna be playing in the NL

DirtySox
07-28-2011, 09:38 PM
mlbtraderumors.com says the Phils offered Jarred Cosart (p), Jonathan Singleton (of), pitching prospect for Pence and were turned down. Would you take that package for Q?

I think I use that package to see what Atlanta can offer, personally.

It's a damn good package, and I wouldn't be unhappy with it. Especially if Biddle is involved as well.

Harry Potter
07-28-2011, 09:43 PM
It's a damn good package, and I wouldn't be unhappy with it. Especially if Biddle is involved as well.

Hey guys, I've missed Chicago!
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512z2ZLoxEL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

cws05champ
07-28-2011, 09:54 PM
mlbtraderumors.com says the Phils offered Jarred Cosart (p), Jonathan Singleton (of), pitching prospect for Pence and were turned down. Would you take that package for Q?

I think I use that package to see what Atlanta can offer, personally.

I'd take that deal in a second....

gr8mexico
07-28-2011, 10:55 PM
That bidding war is currently taking place for Hunter Pence who now which Jon Morosi is reporting is "likely" to be traded by Sunday.

Who ever doesn't get Pence will pay even more for Quentin with no other stud OF available. The demand will still be there

Harry Chappas
07-28-2011, 11:49 PM
Am I the only one who would prefer a top position player prospect (sorry for alliteration)? Pitching doesn't seem to be our problem nor does it for the near future.

salty99
07-29-2011, 12:03 AM
Am I the only one who would prefer a top position player prospect (sorry for alliteration)? Pitching doesn't seem to be our problem nor does it for the near future.

That exactly is what Singleton is. I would do that in a second.

DirtySox
07-29-2011, 12:15 AM
Phillies are getting close for Pence. Hopefully Carlos is a Brave soon after.

BigHurt3515
07-29-2011, 12:25 AM
Phillies are getting close for Pence. Hopefully Carlos is a Brave soon after.

Red Sox said they would go after him too

shes
07-29-2011, 12:48 AM
honestly i have no idea who those guys or most other team's prospects are
i think quentin is better then pence though especially if he's gonna be playing in the NL

Pence has stayed injury-free and consistent during his career, and his defense is actually half-decent, while TCQ's, shall we say, is ... not. That tips the scales in his favor, value-wise.

Nevertheless, whatever package we might get for Carlos should at the very least come close to approaching that for Pence.

RCWHITESOX
07-29-2011, 01:17 AM
If the Sox can pull off a trade with the Braves for younger Arms then the Sox can look to also trade Floyd or Danks. Zack Stewart can fill in this year and then Chris Sale can take over at SP next year.

This team is only 3 games back and only a hot streak away from getting the lead. I hope they don"t just give up and look to strengthen the team

Nellie_Fox
07-29-2011, 01:45 AM
This is just my take and a lot of it is observation or second hand info. I donít think the clubhouse is a fun atmosphere right now. I have a friend in another front office who said some of the buzz they hear is Ozzie has worn the clubhouse a little thin. Some of the players are used to it, but they said nothing is wrong mechanically with Dunnís swing, he is just miserable right now and pressing and not enjoying playing the game. He is guy who has to be having fun to be at his best, and itís been a bad mix of his personality and the clubhouse. I just think another manager may losing him up big time. Also was told Dunn has been putting a ton of blame on himself so this is not a Swisher or Rios situation. Rightfully so, but its really all mental right now with him. That is a good and bad thing. It means physically he has not lost the ability, but also means it isnít a slight adjustment to get him back. The "blame Ozzie" rhetoric is taking on unreal dimensions. Seriously, Dunn has been AWFUL since the very start of the year, and you're honestly going to try to say it's because Ozzie makes the clubhouse "not fun?" And why do you say it's all mental with him? I'm no expert, but his swing looks loooooooooong and slooooooooow to me.

TDog
07-29-2011, 02:22 AM
Phillies are getting close for Pence. Hopefully Carlos is a Brave soon after.

From a competitive perspective, it would be silly for the White Sox to move Quentin.

Soxfest
07-29-2011, 07:30 AM
From a competitive perspective, it would be silly for the White Sox to move Quentin.
Sox are under .500 with CQ and have scored 3 runs or less half the time. Trading CQ is no white flag to me. DV can play RF.

balke
07-29-2011, 07:42 AM
This team is only 3 games back and only a hot streak away from getting the lead. I hope they don"t just give up and look to strengthen the team


The team is also easily 6 games from being 5 games back.

palehozenychicty
07-29-2011, 08:06 AM
Sox are between a rock and a hard place. But some folks here still seem to think that this same lineup will wake up offensively and win the division. I'm hearing "from a competitive standpoint", which is silly. The Sox are not really competing here. They have been fortunate that their offensiveness in the batter's box hasn't buried them. It's a testament to their infield defense and pitching.

Therefore, I don't have a problem if they have to make the offense more dynamic to generate some consistent run production. As good as Carlos can be, he can disappear in August. He's a tough guy to rely on. If someone is willing to make our lineup better and cheaper, how can you not want that?

They could eke out the division. But this franchise should be thinking bigger than that. We're not the Twins.

russ99
07-29-2011, 08:22 AM
I think it depends on what we get back. A few low-minors pitching prospects isn't good enough, as how often do those pan out?

We need another athletic OF to replace Pierre next season.

If we get a "ready for MLB" prospect that can step on the field and hit in 2012 and a pitching prospect or two then I'm OK with dealing Quentin, who's trade value is the highest possible right now, and there are very few power bats on the market this year.

Considering Quentin's injury history and streakiness, we'd probably need Viciedo at some time this season to keep in contention anyway.

hawkjt
07-29-2011, 08:25 AM
If Carlos has to go, do it in the offseason. He is in a good groove right now and could carry the team the next two months. This team only goes as far as their power hitters carry them...no homers,no wins. Carlos is the second best hr hitter,period.

Do no harm,Kenny.

cws05champ
07-29-2011, 08:54 AM
I kind of struck by the prudence of some if not most on here. I think before 2005 if the Sox were in this position and starting trading away players there would be a complete revolt. Nowadays it seems that at lot more understand the economics of it and the complete lack of young talent we have in our system in order to compete on a year in year out basis.

If we get a couple stud prospects in a deal for Quentin and you can bring Viciedo up I'd do it. I know Carlos has an impact bat, especially when he is hot....but he too often gets hurt, plays mediocre OF defense and is very streaky(which the whole team seems to be). Maybe Viciedo will be the same way, or worse, but as someone else pointed out, we are only scoring 3 runs/game half the time now anyways.
If they can make a deal now, it may still be possible to win the division but with a powerhouse Boston team out there waiting in the 1st round, I would not feel confident at all the Sox could take them out in the playoffs.

Hartman
07-29-2011, 08:55 AM
If Carlos has to go, do it in the offseason. He is in a good groove right now and could carry the team the next two months. This team only goes as far as their power hitters carry them...no homers,no wins. Carlos is the second best hr hitter,period.

Do no harm,Kenny.

You have to look at history. Carlos has never been good down the stretch, and he has never really sustained an extended period of hitting success. Buy low, sell high. We also need him out to free up some space for other guys.

cws05champ
07-29-2011, 09:19 AM
You have to look at history. Carlos has never been good down the stretch, and he has never really sustained an extended period of hitting success. Buy low, sell high. We also need him out to free up some space for other guys.
This is a false statement that has been repeated several times on here by a few people. Look at his career stats before you say he fades down the stretch. His Sept #'s are better than anytime in May or June. If you want him traded for stud prospects and so Viciedo can play, fine I can understand that. But don't put it under the rouse of "he fades down the stretch". Carlos is our 2nd best hitter right now, so the trade would hurt, but I can understand why they'd do it.

Domeshot17
07-29-2011, 09:52 AM
The "blame Ozzie" rhetoric is taking on unreal dimensions. Seriously, Dunn has been AWFUL since the very start of the year, and you're honestly going to try to say it's because Ozzie makes the clubhouse "not fun?" And why do you say it's all mental with him? I'm no expert, but his swing looks loooooooooong and slooooooooow to me.

The lack of fun/energy is something I have heard and you can see it in key situations (that 14 inning roller coaster game where the bench just didn't react at all to AJ's tying homer in extra innings, etc.). I just trust my source here in terms of info on Ozzie. He followed a lot of the Ozzie to the Braves rumors to succeed Bobby Cox, and said that was one of several reasons Atlanta never seriously considered him. He also called Freddi Gonzales very early there.

The mental thing has been well documented by a lot of scouts. There are even stories coming out that is is SO mental, Dunn has been playing golf with the team pyscologist just to try and resolve the issues.

doublem23
07-29-2011, 10:00 AM
This is a false statement that has been repeated several times on here by a few people. Look at his career stats before you say he fades down the stretch. His Sept #'s are better than anytime in May or June. If you want him traded for stud prospects and so Viciedo can play, fine I can understand that. But don't put it under the rouse of "he fades down the stretch". Carlos is our 2nd best hitter right now, so the trade would hurt, but I can understand why they'd do it.

:clap:

Thank you, I am personally ambivalent about the TCQ rumors. He's a good player, still in his prime, and one not exactly easy to replace, however, if he returns a couple younger guys to build around, well, that's the business of this game.

Hartman
07-29-2011, 10:06 AM
This is a false statement that has been repeated several times on here by a few people. Look at his career stats before you say he fades down the stretch. His Sept #'s are better than anytime in May or June. If you want him traded for stud prospects and so Viciedo can play, fine I can understand that. But don't put it under the rouse of "he fades down the stretch". Carlos is our 2nd best hitter right now, so the trade would hurt, but I can understand why they'd do it.

Would you say he has been consistently good this year? He is a streaky player...he basically disappeared for 6 weeks this year.

russ99
07-29-2011, 10:30 AM
Ozzie to the Braves rumors to succeed Bobby Cox, and said that was one of several reasons Atlanta never seriously considered him.

I'm sure the biggest reason that Ozzie didn't go to Atlanta is that he's under contract with the Sox.

Has a team ever lost its' manager due to another job opening?

Domeshot17
07-29-2011, 10:32 AM
I'm sure the biggest reason that Ozzie didn't go to Atlanta is that he's under contract with the Sox.

Has a team ever lost its' manager due to another job opening?

This was around the time the Sox were considering trading Ozzie to the Marlins. If the Braves had really wanted him, something would have been worked out. Think Pinella with the D-Rays.

russ99
07-29-2011, 10:36 AM
This was around the time the Sox were considering trading Ozzie to the Marlins. If the Braves had really wanted him, something would have been worked out. Think Pinella with the D-Rays.

Do we really think they were considering that "trade"? I'm sure we all have opinions, but who's to say the commissioner would even go for something like that anyway.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2011, 10:37 AM
Has a team ever lost its' manager due to another job opening?

IIRC Torborg was under contract with the Sox when the Mets hired him away; the Sox simply let him go.

infohawk
07-29-2011, 10:43 AM
Here's my thoughts about why the Sox should seriously consider acquiring as much young talent as possible if it's a sellers market.

The White Sox will never have a consistent run of excellence until they commit to building their farm system. They can sustain a decent and perhaps competitive product through aggressive and creative trades, but they are always going to be one or two bad trades away from slipping below the level of true competitiveness. In other words, KW can continue rolling the dice and "going for it" with short term time horizon moves (2-3 years windows with the prospect of extending the windows), but the margin for error with this approach is very, very small.

Looking forward over the next several years, I'm less concerned about the Tigers, Twins, and Indians and much more concerned with all of the talent that the Royals have stockpiled. I can see the Royals becoming the new "Twins" in that they could transition from awful to consistently good with a seemingly never-ending pipeline of young, cheap, and talented players to plug in when other players begin getting expensive. This is a long-term plan for a sustained run of success. Meanwhile, I'm concerned that the Sox will continue their strategy of trying to make this move or that to keep their window open for a "championship run." Incidentally, the Tigers seem to be doing the same thing as the Sox. I can't really speak to the Indians, but they seem willing to take a step or two back in the hopes of taking a leap forward. Once again, if "win now" is the continuing philosophy on the South Side at the expense of trying to achieve sustained and affordable excellence, one or two bad trades or free-agent acquisitions could be the death knell and usher in a period of extended mediocrity.

And really, let's say the Sox win a weak Central Division. Does anyone see this team getting to the WS this year?

Domeshot17
07-29-2011, 10:47 AM
Do we really think they were considering that "trade"? I'm sure we all have opinions, but who's to say the commissioner would even go for something like that anyway.

Yes I do, and Yes he would, it has happened before.

I know you want to pretend like Ozzie has not worn out his welcome in Chicago to a lot of people, but he has, and it must get harder and harder to argue each day we stay under .500 that he is doing a good job.

Huisj
07-29-2011, 10:49 AM
Do we really think they were considering that "trade"? I'm sure we all have opinions, but who's to say the commissioner would even go for something like that anyway.

It's not totally unprecedented. When Piniella left Seattle to go to TB, the two teams worked out a trade so that Seattle would get Randy Winn as compensation for Piniella leaving while under contract.

doublem23
07-29-2011, 10:49 AM
Do we really think they were considering that "trade"? I'm sure we all have opinions, but who's to say the commissioner would even go for something like that anyway.

The Mariners essentially traded Lou Piniella to the Devil Rays for Randy Winn following the 2002 season, I don't see how the Sox trading Ozzie to the Marlins would be any different.

Sockinchisox
07-29-2011, 11:18 AM
If anyone wants a good laugh you should look at Carlos' Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Quentin

Edit: it changed back.

PaleHoser
07-29-2011, 11:29 AM
Do we really think they were considering that "trade"? I'm sure we all have opinions, but who's to say the commissioner would even go for something like that anyway.

There's precedent. Manny Sanguillen (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sanguma01.shtml)was traded from Pittsburgh to Oakland before the 1977 season for A's manager Chuck Tanner.

Considering Jerry Reinsdorf and Bud Selig are very good personal friends, I'm sure the commissioner's office wouldn't stand in the way of such a deal. Maybe we could get one of the young Marlins outfielders?

Rocky Soprano
07-29-2011, 11:36 AM
The Mariners essentially traded Lou Piniella to the Devil Rays for Randy Winn following the 2002 season, I don't see how the Sox trading Ozzie to the Marlins would be any different.

Its different because Russ will never agree with Ozzie leaving the Sox.
2005!

Domeshot17
07-29-2011, 11:43 AM
its different because russ will never agree with ozzie leaving the sox.
2005!

rowand!

kittle42
07-29-2011, 11:46 AM
Its different because Russ will never agree with Ozzie leaving the Sox.
2005!

Post of the week.

russ99
07-29-2011, 01:23 PM
I know you want to pretend like Ozzie has not worn out his welcome in Chicago to a lot of people, but he has, and it must get harder and harder to argue each day we stay under .500 that he is doing a good job.

And you and all the other posters who want to run Ozzie out on a rail can't help but infect with your "fire ozzie" inane ramblings yet another non-related thread - one which is supposed to be about speculation re:trading Quentin.

Its different because Russ will never agree with Ozzie leaving the Sox.
2005!

No, I've said before that it would be time for a new manager if the Sox don't make the playoffs this year.

That hasn't been ruled out, so stop getting ahead of yourselves with your lovely witch hunt.

kittle42
07-29-2011, 01:35 PM
No, I've said before that it would be time for a new manager if the Sox don't make the playoffs this year.

Actually, that is true - you did say that!

Domeshot17
07-29-2011, 01:36 PM
And you and all the other posters who want to run Ozzie out on a rail can't help but infect with your "fire ozzie" inane ramblings yet another non-related thread - one which is supposed to be about speculation re:trading Quentin.



No, I've said before that it would be time for a new manager if the Sox don't make the playoffs this year.

That hasn't been ruled out, so stop getting ahead of yourselves with your lovely witch hunt.

All I said was I believe Dunn could rebound and be the prolific power hitter he has been his entire career under a different coaching staff. Then the Oz-poligists jumped in demanding to know how its possible Ozzie could ever do anything wrong.

doublem23
07-29-2011, 01:49 PM
All I said was I believe Dunn could rebound and be the prolific power hitter he has been his entire career under a different coaching staff. Then the Oz-poligists jumped in demanding to know how its possible Ozzie could ever do anything wrong.

FWIW, it wasn't just "Ozz-poligisists" who "jumped" on you for that comment. There were some holes with your reasoning, especially the whole "it's mental" thing. I'm sure that plays a role in Dunn's slump, but I'd imagine the book on him right now is that you just throw a fastball middle/in on him with any sort of heat and there's no way he's catching up to it. His swing is just so ridiculously long right now. That's not in his head.

ghostface36
07-29-2011, 01:54 PM
FWIW, it wasn't just "Ozz-poligisists" who "jumped" on you for that comment. There were some holes with your reasoning, especially the whole "it's mental" thing. I'm sure that plays a role in Dunn's slump, but I'd imagine the book on him right now is that you just throw a fastball middle/in on him with any sort of heat and there's no way he's catching up to it. His swing is just so ridiculously long right now. That's not in his head.
yup his swing is long as hell that he normally can't even catch up to many average fastballs let alone good ones. I don't know why dunn hasn't taken the bat off his shoulder yet

Domeshot17
07-29-2011, 02:02 PM
FWIW, it wasn't just "Ozz-poligisists" who "jumped" on you for that comment. There were some holes with your reasoning, especially the whole "it's mental" thing. I'm sure that plays a role in Dunn's slump, but I'd imagine the book on him right now is that you just throw a fastball middle/in on him with any sort of heat and there's no way he's catching up to it. His swing is just so ridiculously long right now. That's not in his head.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6716665

I don't know the official rules on qouting espn articles, but this article is entirely about Dunn seeing the team shrink and how everyone was in agreement Most of Dunn's struggles are mental. Worth the 2 minutes of reading.

Mental approach can cause a long swing. Most home run hitters will tell you the key is never think about hitting the home run. Let your eyes and body square it up and rip it. If you think about hitting a home run, you tend to over compensate, drop your shoulder, lengthen your swing and put an un-needed upper cut into the ball. Result = K or Pop Up. I know it isn't the easiest thing to comprehend, especially for people who didn't play any kind of more advanced ball, but even in college you notice it alot. Mental break down causes physical break down. That was more what I was saying. It isn't like he is starting his hands too high, or he is too far open, over striding, there is nothing physically making his swing longer but his damn brain.

cws05champ
07-29-2011, 03:19 PM
Would you say he has been consistently good this year? He is a streaky player...he basically disappeared for 6 weeks this year.
No, I never said that. He disappeared for the month of May when he hit .209. But you said he has never been down the stretch, which is not the case.

guillensdisciple
07-29-2011, 05:53 PM
Every time I read the title of this thread I think of the South Park episode with the Hardy boys when they have raging clues.

balke
07-29-2011, 06:14 PM
No, I never said that. He disappeared for the month of May when he hit .209. But you said he has never been down the stretch, which is not the case.


I think he's talking about the 6 weeks Q didn't hit a HR June-July. His avg. and OBP dipped 20 pts. He's very streaky - but I think potentially he could have very long streaks. Seems like he just comes out of the cage some games ready to kill the ball - and some games just to not make a mistake.

DirtySox
07-29-2011, 08:56 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1144343763/foxjon_normal.jpg
jonmorosi (http://twitter.com/#%21/jonmorosi) Jon Morosi
#Phillies (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Phillies) close to acquiring Pence from #Astros (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Astros) for package including Jonathan Singleton and Jarrod Cosart, sources tell FOXSports.com.
1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/jonmorosi/status/97107887599525888) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

Marqhead
07-29-2011, 09:18 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1144343763/foxjon_normal.jpg
jonmorosi (http://twitter.com/#%21/jonmorosi) Jon Morosi
#Phillies (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Phillies) close to acquiring Pence from #Astros (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23Astros) for package including Jonathan Singleton and Jarrod Cosart, sources tell FOXSports.com.
1 minute ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/jonmorosi/status/97107887599525888) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)


I bet we can get a pretty solid package from Atlanta if they really want him.

DirtySox
07-29-2011, 09:19 PM
I bet we can get a pretty solid package from Atlanta if they really want him.

Agreed. He's the best power bat available now. I await tonight and tomorrow's rampant speculation.

Soxfest
07-29-2011, 09:27 PM
Pence deal is official.............Time for Atlanta to pay the piper for CQ!

ChicagoG19
07-29-2011, 09:45 PM
Pence deal is official.............Time for Atlanta to pay the piper for CQ!

I would still rather keep Quentin. The division sucks and if the Sox make the playoff, they can be a threat with their rotation and bullpen.

DirtySox
07-29-2011, 09:48 PM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman) Jon Heyman
quentin is available at the right price. #whitesox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23whitesox) must like OF prospect viciedo because they are in race.#tradedeadline (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23tradedeadline)
26 seconds ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/97120993167937536) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

GAsoxfan
07-29-2011, 09:56 PM
Pence deal is official.............Time for Atlanta to pay the piper for CQ!

I don't see the Braves offering any of their top four prospects. If they don't I hope KW just holds onto Quentin.

Zakath
07-29-2011, 10:28 PM
Pence deal is official.............Time for Atlanta to pay the piper for CQ!

Looks like the Astros and Pirates have decided to switch fortunes.

Used to be Pittsburgh that was the farm club for everyone else. Now it looks like Houston is.

How far that franchise has fallen from making the Series six years ago.

DickAllen72
07-29-2011, 10:45 PM
I don't see the Braves offering any of their top four prospects. If they don't I hope KW just holds onto Quentin.
Yep. And Kenny won't deal Carlos for anyone who isn't major league ready either. I don't see CQ going to the Braves, but you never know.

Tragg
07-29-2011, 10:45 PM
Looks like the Astros and Pirates have decided to switch fortunes.

Used to be Pittsburgh that was the farm club for everyone else. Now it looks like Houston is.

How far that franchise has fallen from making the Series six years ago.

That's because they kept making short term moves, didn't do a good job on the farm, and spent money recklessly. And the new owner wants the ML budget virtually halved, and will put a lot more money into the minor league system and scouting.
They need to trade whoever will bring good young players. They'd have been lucky to win 60 with Pence.
And if Williams is getting a lot of budget pressure, he's going to do the same thing (probably after the season)....and we may look like them if he does (although we should have enough to carve out 75 wins with $40 mil or so out of the budget).

The Thomenator
07-30-2011, 12:30 AM
I kinda hate that I am actually doing this, but I got this random text from a good friend: "Quentin to the Braves. Thornton to the Phillies. My friend is at a wedding with Santos' agent and Sergio just texted him."

Nothing mentioned on what we are getting in return.

I'll eat crow if all of this is not true.

Foulke You
07-30-2011, 12:44 AM
I kinda hate that I am actually doing this, but I got this random text from a good friend: "Quentin to the Braves. Thornton to the Phillies. My friend is at a wedding with Santos' agent and Sergio just texted him."

Nothing mentioned on what we are getting in return.

I'll eat crow if all of this is not true.
I kind've hope it isn't true with the team playing better right now. I think we can absorb the loss of Thornton more than Quentin right now. I know it has been discussed to death but for a team that has so much trouble scoring runs, to take away your #2 RBI man and replace him with a rookie seems like punting on the 2011 season and gearing up for 2012. I have issues with that only 3 games behind and chasing a flawed Tigers team.

Rocky Soprano
07-30-2011, 01:03 AM
I kinda hate that I am actually doing this, but I got this random text from a good friend: "Quentin to the Braves. Thornton to the Phillies. My friend is at a wedding with Santos' agent and Sergio just texted him."

Nothing mentioned on what we are getting in return.

I'll eat crow if all of this is not true.

I hope youre hungry and you like crow.

shes
07-30-2011, 01:14 AM
I kinda hate that I am actually doing this, but I got this random text from a good friend: "Quentin to the Braves. Thornton to the Phillies. My friend is at a wedding with Santos' agent and Sergio just texted him."

Nothing mentioned on what we are getting in return.

I'll eat crow if all of this is not true.

If there isn't an airport involved I don't believe it.

ViPeRx007
07-30-2011, 01:14 AM
I could see Thornton being shipped out with our bullpen being *knock on wood* a strong area.

Quentin, on the other hand, doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless there's a team willing to pay astronomically for him.

Nellie_Fox
07-30-2011, 01:23 AM
DV can play RF.You don't know that.

All I said was I believe Dunn could rebound and be the prolific power hitter he has been his entire career under a different coaching staff. Then the Oz-poligists jumped in demanding to know how its possible Ozzie could ever do anything wrong.It's poor argumentation to completely misstate the opponents' argument. Nowhere in this thread, or anywhere for that matter, did anyone demand to know "how it's possible Ozzie could ever do anything wrong." I asked how Dunn could basically suck from day one and THAT be Ozzie's fault. But of course, you didn't answer that.

I kinda hate that I am actually doing this, but I got this random text from a good friend: "Quentin to the Braves. Thornton to the Phillies. My friend is at a wedding with Santos' agent and Sergio just texted him."

Nothing mentioned on what we are getting in return.

I'll eat crow if all of this is not true.If it's from a good friend, and about a subject he knew you'd be interested in, it's not at all random. Random would be if you got a text from somebody you didn't know about interior decorating.

Random does not mean surprising or unexpected.

PalehosePlanet
07-30-2011, 02:12 AM
Just a thought, but would it be possible that if Q were traded that KW might acquire another OF'er as insurance for Dayan? Or De Aza? (E.G. A Marlon Byrd type, with half his salary picked up?) Again just a thought, because trading Q would be very risky with the team being only 3 games out of first. There might be a plan B we're unaware of at this point.

Personally, I think Q stays. The Braves seem be very stingy at this point in giving up prospects. I'm betting they pick up BJ Upton instead because he'll be a lot cheaper than Q in terms of prospects relinquished.

sullythered
07-30-2011, 02:29 AM
It's amusing how some people here think that trading our second best hitter would somehow not be equivalent to throwing in the towel for this year.

If we trade Quentin, it is absolutely a white flag trade.

russ99
07-30-2011, 03:57 AM
That's because they kept making short term moves, didn't do a good job on the farm, and spent money recklessly. And the new owner wants the ML budget virtually halved, and will put a lot more money into the minor league system and scouting.
They need to trade whoever will bring good young players. They'd have been lucky to win 60 with Pence.
And if Williams is getting a lot of budget pressure, he's going to do the same thing (probably after the season)....and we may look like them if he does (although we should have enough to carve out 75 wins with $40 mil or so out of the budget).

No, that's because the pinhead owner hired yes men to run the baseball operations after he fired Hunsicker because he disagreed with him.

Ed Wade did a lot of damage. I don't understand why he has a job and is making these trades for the future of the franchise he won't be around to see.

gr8mexico
07-30-2011, 04:20 AM
It's amusing how some people here think that trading our second best hitter would somehow not be equivalent to throwing in the towel for this year.

If we trade Quentin, it is absolutely a white flag trade.

White Flag trade means most of the team is gone and I don't see that happening

sullythered
07-30-2011, 04:52 AM
White Flag trade means most of the team is gone and I don't see that happening

"White flag" means we're giving up. Trading one of our two good hitters is giving up. They only called the '97 trade a "white flag" trade because we were giving up, not because of the number of players involved.

Nelson Foxtrot
07-30-2011, 04:59 AM
I kinda hate that I am actually doing this, but I got this random text from a good friend: "Quentin to the Braves. Thornton to the Phillies. My friend is at a wedding with Santos' agent and Sergio just texted him."

Nothing mentioned on what we are getting in return.

I'll eat crow if all of this is not true.

Sergio's agent is Joe Longo, who operates out of Los Angeles, and likely wasn't even in the same state as the alleged wedding. The players likely wouldn't find out until after the trades were complete. Even if Thornton and Quentin were told and had let Santos know, would he text the news to his agent? Would his agent tell a stranger at a wedding? Weddings are places where people lie about who they are and even teetotalers seem to get contact drunk. This is a friend of a friend at the wedding, right? I think somebody somewhere along the line is getting his leg pulled (and possibly included in a trade for a prospect's arm).

Zakath
07-30-2011, 05:33 AM
It's amusing how some people here think that trading our second best hitter would somehow not be equivalent to throwing in the towel for this year.

If we trade Quentin, it is absolutely a white flag trade.

Those people tend to believe that Viciedo is, for lack of a better term, the Savior, and that he can easily step in and replace Quentin.

The Jackson-Teahen trade was viewed by some as the Sox "giving up" on the Central race, even though we had a surplus starter and Teahen was basically platooning at 3B. Trading a guy in the heart of your lineup who's not even 29 and is already a proven hitter when you're only 3 out is the Japanese on the deck of the USS Missouri.

Nelson Foxtrot
07-30-2011, 05:51 AM
"White flag" means we're giving up. Trading one of our two good hitters is giving up. They only called the '97 trade a "white flag" trade because we were giving up, not because of the number of players involved.

Agreed. The trade only involved Alvarez, Hernandez, and the washed-up Darwin, but that was enough. IMO, the real "white flag" should be considered the deal two days earlier, in which we traded Harold Baines (hitting .305 with 12 HRs) for a worthless minor-leaguer who everybody knew would never come close to the majors. Frank shifted to DH and 22 year-old rookie Mario Valdez played 1B for the rest of the season. The Sun-Times ran the headline "Sox demolition starts with deal dumping Baines." Alvarez and Hernandez had both been rumored to be on their way out for a few days (and both had slammed Reinsdorf in the press during those days), but once the Baines deal took place, the flag was waved and the Sox weren't turning back.

dickallen15
07-30-2011, 08:33 AM
Agreed. The trade only involved Alvarez, Hernandez, and the washed-up Darwin, but that was enough. IMO, the real "white flag" should be considered the deal two days earlier, in which we traded Harold Baines (hitting .305 with 12 HRs) for a worthless minor-leaguer who everybody knew would never come close to the majors. Frank shifted to DH and 22 year-old rookie Mario Valdez played 1B for the rest of the season. The Sun-Times ran the headline "Sox demolition starts with deal dumping Baines." Alvarez and Hernandez had both been rumored to be on their way out for a few days (and both had slammed Reinsdorf in the press during those days), but once the Baines deal took place, the flag was waved and the Sox weren't turning back.

Considering Alvarez and Darwin were the only Sox starters with ERAs below 5.00 and the deal also included Roberto Hernandez, the Sox closer, the trade with SF was total surrender.

wassagstdu
07-30-2011, 08:45 AM
As long as they keep the core pitching intact nothing else they could do would be considered surrender. With this pitching a team of replacement players could play .500 ball -- unless they all decided this was their chance to show that they have some power.

A. Cavatica
07-30-2011, 10:26 AM
As long as they keep the core pitching intact nothing else they could do would be considered surrender. With this pitching a team of replacement players could play .500 ball -- unless they all decided this was their chance to show that they have some power.

With this pitching a team of replacement players is playing .500 ball.

The problem isn't the players, it's the manager and his hitting coach. They should've fired a warning shot a couple of months ago, by firing Walker. I can't believe they put their investment in the payroll at risk by refusing to find coaches that could get these players' heads straight.

And yes, I shouldn't have hijacked this thread, but that's why we find ourself debating whether to trade Q.

Rocky Soprano
07-30-2011, 11:14 AM
With this pitching a team of replacement players is playing .500 ball.

The problem isn't the players, it's the manager and his hitting coach. They should've fired a warning shot a couple of months ago, by firing Walker. I can't believe they put their investment in the payroll at risk by refusing to find coaches that could get these players' heads straight.

And yes, I shouldn't have hijacked this thread, but that's why we find ourself debating whether to trade Q.

Very well said.

wassagstdu
07-30-2011, 12:07 PM
The problem isn't the players, it's the manager and his hitting coach. They should've fired a warning shot a couple of months ago, by firing Walker. I can't believe they put their investment in the payroll at risk by refusing to find coaches that could get these players' heads straight.

And ... that's why we find ourself debating whether to trade Q.

The reasons we are in this position are Dunn and Rios and a few other players, and if you insist on assuming these professional athletes can't be to blame for lousy performance, then it is the GM who put the team together. How can you blame Ozzie and Walker for Dunn and Rios? Without being ridiculous, I mean.

SI1020
07-30-2011, 12:19 PM
If there isn't an airport involved I don't believe it. Good one.

A. Cavatica
07-30-2011, 03:07 PM
The reasons we are in this position are Dunn and Rios and a few other players, and if you insist on assuming these professional athletes can't be to blame for lousy performance, then it is the GM who put the team together. How can you blame Ozzie and Walker for Dunn and Rios? Without being ridiculous, I mean.

Everyone agrees that Dunn's and Rios' problems are mental. Ozzie creates the climate in the clubhouse, and Ozzie is the furthest thing from a stable, reassuring presence. There's never any accountability for Ozzie and there usually isn't for the players, but every once in a while Ozzie will throw a player under the bus.

blandman
07-30-2011, 03:21 PM
With this pitching a team of replacement players is playing .500 ball.

The problem isn't the players, it's the manager and his hitting coach. They should've fired a warning shot a couple of months ago, by firing Walker. I can't believe they put their investment in the payroll at risk by refusing to find coaches that could get these players' heads straight.

And yes, I shouldn't have hijacked this thread, but that's why we find ourself debating whether to trade Q.

This is a hijack, not everyone thinks like this. If Ozzie benched Dunn or Rios early in the year, with their salaries, he'd have been fired. Remember, his boss put this team together. Not giving it a chance is akin to insubordination. At some point, when players are making that much money, you have to put most of the onus on them. How you can blame Ozzie and Walker, especially for Rios, is beyond me. He was accused of dogging it in Toronto too. Hard to motivate a millionaire that doesn't want to be motivated.

Zisk77
07-30-2011, 03:39 PM
This is a hijack, not everyone thinks like this. If Ozzie benched Dunn or Rios early in the year, with their salaries, he'd have been fired. Remember, his boss put this team together. Not giving it a chance is akin to insubordination. At some point, when players are making that much money, you have to put most of the onus on them. How you can blame Ozzie and Walker, especially for Rios, is beyond me. He was accused of dogging it in Toronto too. Hard to motivate a millionaire that doesn't want to be motivated.

I agree. Plus The sox have always been accused of having the loosest clubhouse under Ozzie. Not buying the mental angst he is magically instilling. Is the blaring Salsa music giving poor Alex and adam headaches?