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View Full Version : *Official* "De Aza Leaves Kitties Dazed" 7/27 Postgamer


MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-27-2011, 04:02 PM
Way to work, kid.

3.5 out!

Gavin
07-27-2011, 04:02 PM
Gained one on the Tribe, too.

Hell of a performance by Sale.

chisoxfanatic
07-27-2011, 04:03 PM
Two thumbs up for De Aza!

Nice job by Sale too!!!

guillensdisciple
07-27-2011, 04:03 PM
Weird day today for Sox fans.

vinny
07-27-2011, 04:03 PM
Welcome back to the bigs, Alejandro!

Solid outings by our pitchers today, especially Sale.

kittle42
07-27-2011, 04:03 PM
This may or may not stop the selling. With an off day tomorrow, this will be interesting.

Soxman219
07-27-2011, 04:04 PM
AGAIN, TO DE AZA :gulp:

:)

arKnaD7
07-27-2011, 04:04 PM
Ale-ale-jandro Ale-ale-jandro!!!

OmahaSoxFan
07-27-2011, 04:04 PM
Johnny comes out and gives the Sox a great start, Sale and Santos round it all out (major props to Chris who came in and dominated in a close game). And to top it all off, De Aza ends up the offensive hero by plating the only 2 Sox runs of the day on his first MLB Home Run! Fun game, even with the DP on the bases loaded opp in the 8th...

sox230
07-27-2011, 04:04 PM
Good win for the pitching staff and KW (bringing up de Aza and getting rid of his own mistakes) today. Can some tell my again why KW was the one who had to say that Rios is benched? Isn't that the manager's job?

Bucky F. Dent
07-27-2011, 04:04 PM
We should have trade E-Jax months ago. :D:

Reality is, we should have benched Rios months ago. :angry:

TommyGavinFloyd
07-27-2011, 04:05 PM
Good win. I'm sorry but 1 game under, 3.5 out with this pitching staff, in this division, does not call for a firesale. I don't care how bad the offense is. Let's hope for a good old fashioned Wakefield bashing Friday.

voodoochile
07-27-2011, 04:06 PM
On a day with few hits for either team and a ton of strikeouts partially due to a getaway day plate the Sox got the bigger of the two big hits and their pithers did the rest.

1 game under 3.5 games back

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

kittle42
07-27-2011, 04:06 PM
1-0 record with Rios benched!

shingo10
07-27-2011, 04:06 PM
Ozzie seemed extra intense today. About time.

Great win and either way you look at it exciting times ahead in the coming week.

Tragg
07-27-2011, 04:06 PM
Some fine pitching from Chris Sale, too.

blandman
07-27-2011, 04:07 PM
Good win. I'm sorry but 1 game under, 3.5 out with this pitching staff, in this division, does not call for a firesale. I don't care how bad the offense is. Let's hope for a good old fashioned Wakefield bashing tomorrow.

Anyone who thinks we can catch Detroit is crazy.

Seriously though...1 game under, 3.5 out...strikingly similar situation.

ShooterMcGavin
07-27-2011, 04:07 PM
De Aza FTW!

Dunn had a nice game at the plate and had a nice pick over at first base on a throw from Alexei.

Danks got the job done, battling against Detroit, knowing his offense was probably not going to score more than the 2 runs the Sox got.

Sale went 2 2/3 with 0 runs and Santos got one batter.

BoysMom3
07-27-2011, 04:07 PM
Great game!!

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-27-2011, 04:08 PM
Anyone who thinks we can catch Detroit is crazy.

Nothing like pissing in the punch bowl, Buzz Killington.

We've taken two of three the last two series with them. I don't think it's THAT outlandish to think the Sox can catch them.

TheOldRoman
07-27-2011, 04:09 PM
Anyone who thinks we can catch Detroit is crazy.:reinsy?

voodoochile
07-27-2011, 04:10 PM
Nothing like pissing in the punch bowl, Buzz Killington.

We've aken two of three the last two series with them. I don't think it's THAT outlandish to think they can.

Context. That's the exact phrase JR said when he unloaded the team at the 1997 trade deadline with the Sox 3.5 games out of first.

Zisk77
07-27-2011, 04:10 PM
Nothing like pissing in the punch bowl, Buzz Killington.

We've taken two of three the last two series with them. I don't think it's THAT outlandish to think the Sox can catch them.

I think he was being ironical. An allusion to 97'.

blandman
07-27-2011, 04:10 PM
Nothing like pissing in the punch bowl, Buzz Killington.

We've taken two of three the last two series with them. I don't think it's THAT outlandish to think the Sox can catch them.

:reinsy?

Yes, I am paraphrasing JR after the White Flag trade.

Flight #24
07-27-2011, 04:11 PM
Funny thing about being almost .500 and a couple games out with the way Rios & Dunn have played is that if you sub someone in and they only suck, you'll probably improve enough to get to first. But that's only because your money guys don't suck, they suck ridiculously horrifically.

Woofer
07-27-2011, 04:11 PM
The Sox have time to catch Detroit and Cleveland. If the season was down to its final ten games, being 3&1/2 games out would mean we still are alive. This is still a winnable division.

slavko
07-27-2011, 04:11 PM
Good win for the pitching staff and KW (bringing up de Aza and getting rid of his own mistakes) today. Can some tell my again why KW was the one who had to say that Rios is benched? Isn't that the manager's job?

You're not hinting that he was playing all this time at Kenny's orders, are you? Blasphemy!

Anyway, Rios can't be benched. He has to play because we're paying him all that money. Don't we all agree on that? He'll be in the lineup before long. Would he have made the catch Quentin did as a defensive replacement in the 9th? Of course!

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-27-2011, 04:12 PM
Context. That's the exact phrase JR said when he unloaded the team at the 1997 trade deadline with the Sox 3.5 games out of first.

I think he was being ironical. An allusion to 97'.

I blocked that out in my mind...:redface:

My comment is cheerfully withdrawn in that case. Apologies.

voodoochile
07-27-2011, 04:12 PM
Just want to give a little nod to TCM too. His defense this series was stunning and what we were seeing regularly most of the last 1.5 years prior to his shaky start this season. Hopefully he keeps it going. That much range with that much arm power is an incredible defensive weapon.

guillensdisciple
07-27-2011, 04:13 PM
39-20 the rest of the way to reach 90 wins which should take the division.

Might seem like I am asking for a lot, but the Sox are now 7-4 since the break. We'll see but 19 over is just winning every series essentially and that's not counting winning streaks or losing streaks.

Lets see if this is going to be a fire sale or not. The next 7 games should go a long way in telling us.

TheOldRoman
07-27-2011, 04:14 PM
Funny thing about being almost .500 and a couple games out with the way Rios & Dunn have played is that if you sub someone in and they only suck, you'll probably improve enough to get to first. But that's only because your money guys don't suck, they suck ridiculously horrifically.Yep. I have said it a few times today, but if those guys were hitting their previous career lows, not even having good years, the Sox would be in first by 5+ games. This team should have run away with the Central. You can blame Kenny for investing so much money in certain players and certainly for keeping Greg Walker off food stamps, but KW put together a good team unless people think he should have forseen two key hitters at or below the Mendoza line.

The Immigrant
07-27-2011, 04:17 PM
Funny thing about being almost .500 and a couple games out with the way Rios & Dunn have played is that if you sub someone in and they only suck, you'll probably improve enough to get to first. But that's only because your money guys don't suck, they suck ridiculously horrifically.

Exactly, replacement-level talent is all we need to significantly improve the offense. Letting Viciedo DH against lefties would also help.

TheOldRoman
07-27-2011, 04:18 PM
Exactly, replacement-level talent is all we need to significantly improve the offense. Letting Viciedo DH against lefties would also help.I am guessing by Monday Viciedo will be playing RF.

Carolina Kenny
07-27-2011, 04:20 PM
Anyone who thinks we can catch Detroit is crazy.

Seriously though...1 game under, 3.5 out...strikingly similar situation.

Indians were no hit today and they committed 5 errors.

We just saw the Tigers, their infield defense blows chunks.

We still have the best team in the division. We just have to play like it.

guillensdisciple
07-27-2011, 04:20 PM
Yep. I have said it a few times today, but if those guys were hitting their previous career lows, not even having good years, the Sox would be in first by 5+ games. This team should have run away with the Central. You can blame Kenny for investing so much money in certain players and certainly for keeping Greg Walker off food stamps, but KW put together a good team unless people think he should have forseen two key hitters at or below the Mendoza line.

I think that, if you're looking at it with a level head, there is really nothing the management can do. This team is actually playing well considering how horrible the top players have performed this year. Ozzie might have made afew blunders along the way, but the fact that this thing is still 1 game under is quiet astonishing considering just how bad Dunn and Rios have been. Hopefully, De Aza is a viable replacement for Rios and Dunn picks it up.

GlassSox
07-27-2011, 04:21 PM
Very well played game. De Aza was solid, it's nice to see some hustle and smart hands at the plate on the home run. :gulp:

SoxSpeed22
07-27-2011, 04:21 PM
Some strong pitching fuels this one. Good defense also comes through for this one. I didn't think that 2 run homer would hold up but it did. Trimming payroll could work since Teahen's gone. Keep this up against the BoSox.

Irishsox1
07-27-2011, 04:23 PM
Alex Rios is the perfect definition of addition by subtraction. He doesn't give his best effort, he's slightly above average in the outfield and he can't hit. Kenny needs to just admit it didn't work out and bite the bullet.

Tragg
07-27-2011, 04:23 PM
I am guessing by Monday Viciedo will be playing RF.

What kind of return do you expect for Quentin?

Carolina Kenny
07-27-2011, 04:25 PM
What kind of return do you expect for Quentin?

I don't see why we would trade TCQ. He has the ability to carry the club, which few Sox have.

guillensdisciple
07-27-2011, 04:25 PM
What kind of return do you expect for Quentin?


A sizeable haul. Kenny can't get swindled with Q. Quentin is a productive hitter and will do well for a playoff team. Hopefully the Braves and Phillies go for him.

DirtySox
07-27-2011, 04:26 PM
I am guessing by Monday Viciedo will be playing RF.

I'd wager this is true as well.

Carolina Kenny
07-27-2011, 04:31 PM
I'd wager this is true as well.

I'd wager we do not. We need TCQ for the pennant push. Our bullpen is the best in the division. Our defense and starting pitching is solid.

We are ready for lift-off.

DSpivack
07-27-2011, 04:33 PM
I'd wager we do not. We need TCQ for the pennant push. Our bullpen is the best in the division. Our defense and starting pitching is solid.

We are ready for lift-off.

Pennant push? I want some of what you are :smokin:.

DirtySox
07-27-2011, 04:35 PM
I'd wager we do not. We need TCQ for the pennant push. Our bullpen is the best in the division. Our defense and starting pitching is solid.

We are ready for lift-off.

The people who called the Edwin trade have noted that more than just scouting has gone on in regards to Quentin. Particularly with Philly.

Tragg
07-27-2011, 04:35 PM
A sizeable haul. Kenny can't get swindled with Q. Quentin is a productive hitter and will do well for a playoff team. Hopefully the Braves and Phillies go for him.
My guess is it's a 3 way deal, and we'll get a temporary veteran, and throw in a couple of more players to neutralize any salary hit that veteran will bring.
Maybe this Ramirez crap is making me paranoid.
The people who called the Edwin trade have noted that more than just scouting has gone on in regards to Quentin. Particularly with Philly.
But how much scouting have WE done of those farm systems.

markopat
07-27-2011, 04:45 PM
1-0 record with Rios benched!

I'll Drink to that! :gulp:

guillensdisciple
07-27-2011, 04:46 PM
My guess is it's a 3 way deal, and we'll get a temporary veteran, and throw in a couple of more players to neutralize any salary hit that veteran will bring.
Maybe this Ramirez crap is making me paranoid.

But how much scouting have WE done of those farm systems.

To add along with that, even if we have, how credible is the scouting we have done for the farm systems. Nothing negative, but it's not like we have the best track record in minor league development. Sometimes I worry about who we get from big trades.

ChiSoxGal85
07-27-2011, 04:48 PM
I only saw pieces of today's game, but what I saw was some good things going on - strong pitching and good D, and *just* enough offense to pull it off. Hope the Sox can keep the momentum, what with the day off tomorrow.

Oh yeah - welcome to Chicago, Alejandro! :bandance:

WhiteSox5187
07-27-2011, 04:51 PM
I don't see why we would trade TCQ. He has the ability to carry the club, which few Sox have.

Quentin can carry a team for a month but then he can absolutely murder a team for two months by popping everything up to the right side which he has been doing the past two nights. I think it makes sense to deal Quentin and put Vicideo in right.

Patrick134
07-27-2011, 04:54 PM
Verlander said he hoped yesterday's game would be demoralizing to the sox. Chew on another series loss to the Sox, moron.

chisoxfanatic
07-27-2011, 04:56 PM
Verlander said he hoped yesterday's game would be demoralizing to the sox. Chew on another series loss to the Sox, moron.
Did he really say that? He narrowly escaped that game last night. How could it be demoralizing? I'm glad we responded well.

TheOldRoman
07-27-2011, 05:04 PM
Verlander said he hoped yesterday's game would be demoralizing to the sox. Chew on another series loss to the Sox, moron.In that case, I hope he takes a line drive to the nads and finds it demoralizing.

TheOldRoman
07-27-2011, 05:06 PM
What kind of return do you expect for Quentin?I have no insight into it, but I would hope a big one. With Beltran going to San Francisco, he is the best outfielder in a sellers market.

kufram
07-27-2011, 05:08 PM
Quentin can carry a team for a month but then he can absolutely murder a team for two months by popping everything up to the right side which he has been doing the past two nights. I think it makes sense to deal Quentin and put Vicideo in right.

I want to see Viciedo but not at the expense of losing TCQ.

SoxNation05
07-27-2011, 05:08 PM
Maybe benching Rio will be the equivalent of Teahen getting hurt last year.

Sale is really packing it now.

Noneck
07-27-2011, 05:09 PM
With this win, Sox management were put in a very precarious position regarding the teams future success. It will be very interesting to see what he does.

Foulke You
07-27-2011, 05:12 PM
Verlander said he hoped yesterday's game would be demoralizing to the sox. Chew on another series loss to the Sox, moron.
As I said in last night's post game thread, I'm starting to dislike a bunch of the players on the Tigers with Valverde's antics leading the way. Hey Verlander, how demoralizing was it to watch our AAA farm hand blast a 2 run shot and help us take another series from you?

Foulke You
07-27-2011, 05:22 PM
I want to see Viciedo but not at the expense of losing TCQ.
Agreed. Quentin has been our second most reliable bat behind Paulie this year. I think taking him out of the lineup and expecting Viciedo to immediately step in and produce the same way is a big leap of faith. To me, the guy that makes the most sense to move right now is Matt Thornton. We have a ton of bullpen depth this year and two reliable lefties in Sale and Ohman plus the newly acquired right hander Frasor. In the brief time we saw him, Hector Santiago looked like another capable left handed bullpen arm. Thornton is owed a good chunk of money and this is the first year in a Sox uniform he has shown a slight decline in velocity. I love Thornton but it seems to be a "sell high" situation. I'd like to see us add a bat by moving him but we'll see what happens.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2011, 05:29 PM
Kenny said earlier today he likes what he has now and thinks he'll probably stay put.

Could just be talk, we'll see.

Lip

hawkjt
07-27-2011, 05:30 PM
As I said in last night's post game thread, I'm starting to dislike a bunch of the players on the Tigers with Valverde's antics leading the way. Hey Verlander, how demoralizing was it to watch our AAA farm hand blast a 2 run shot and help us take another series from you?

Verlander has the arrogance of a stud starter,and my fantasy scenario was him hitting Adam Dunn in above the shoulders last nite,Dunn getting up and charging Verlander like an enraged water buffalo,planting him with a form perfect tackle,and separating Verlander shoulder...mean, I know,but screw him,this is professional sports.

soltrain21
07-27-2011, 05:30 PM
Why wouldn't Verlander want a team that he is in direct competition with have a demoralizing loss?

Some of you are acting like he threw out a bunch of slurs and then peed on a statue.

guillensdisciple
07-27-2011, 05:33 PM
Why wouldn't Verlander want a team that he is in direct competition with have a demoralizing loss?

Some of you are acting like he threw out a bunch of slurs and then peed on a statue.


Nooooo, that will never get confused because we pee on statues.

Zakath
07-27-2011, 05:34 PM
As I said in last night's post game thread, I'm starting to dislike a bunch of the players on the Tigers with Valverde's antics leading the way. Hey Verlander, how demoralizing was it to watch our AAA farm hand blast a 2 run shot and help us take another series from you?

Watching Cabrera last night at first on the last out, you'd think he'd never won a game in the majors before.

They are quickly becoming a very classless squad, which is somewhat surprising given who their manager is.

hawkjt
07-27-2011, 05:35 PM
Some guy at Fangraphs analyzed Cousins strike zone today and it seems that Cousins missed 29 pitches in the strike zone and called 5 strikes that were actually out of the zone. He was flat horrible for both pitchers today,hence the long game. Thankfully Johnny survived all those tough calls.

hawkjt
07-27-2011, 05:36 PM
Why wouldn't Verlander want a team that he is in direct competition with have a demoralizing loss?

Some of you are acting like he threw out a bunch of slurs and then peed on a statue.

No, I just don't like the guy.

soltrain21
07-27-2011, 05:38 PM
No, I just don't like the guy.

Guy is a class act on and off the field, but okay.

Zakath
07-27-2011, 05:42 PM
Kenny said earlier today he likes what he has now and thinks he'll probably stay put.

Could just be talk, we'll see.

Lip

Hopefully he's going to stick to that word.

IMO, trading TCQ would be :whiteflag:. You'd end up creating a HUGE hole in the middle of the lineup that, I'm sorry, Viciedo won't be able to fill, especially if he hasn't learned to start taking pitches and drawing some walks (for those who may have forgotten, last year he had all of 2 walks vs. 25 K's in 104 AB).

slavko
07-27-2011, 06:07 PM
Hopefully he's going to stick to that word.

IMO, trading TCQ would be :whiteflag:. You'd end up creating a HUGE hole in the middle of the lineup that, I'm sorry, Viciedo won't be able to fill, especially if he hasn't learned to start taking pitches and drawing some walks (for those who may have forgotten, last year he had all of 2 walks vs. 25 K's in 104 AB).

Think along with me. Why wasn't Quentin replaced for defense in the 9th today??? Showcasing?

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 06:19 PM
Hopefully he's going to stick to that word.

IMO, trading TCQ would be :whiteflag:. You'd end up creating a HUGE hole in the middle of the lineup that, I'm sorry, Viciedo won't be able to fill, especially if he hasn't learned to start taking pitches and drawing some walks (for those who may have forgotten, last year he had all of 2 walks vs. 25 K's in 104 AB).

TCQ SHOULD be traded if they can get a third baseman in return. Maybe package Thornton in the deal. Thornton is useless and TCQ is batting .237 at home this year. The Tank (if healthy) and a third baseman who can hit makes this team better today and tomorrow.

doublem23
07-27-2011, 06:22 PM
1-0 record with Rios benched!

De Aza in, Sox win

Zisk77
07-27-2011, 06:46 PM
Think along with me. Why wasn't Quentin replaced for defense in the 9th today??? Showcasing?

Maybe we didn't want to lose his offense if the precarious one run lead evaporated? I don't think you generally would want to showcase TCQ defense, even though it worked out that way.:D:

Zakath
07-27-2011, 06:59 PM
TCQ SHOULD be traded if they can get a third baseman in return. Maybe package Thornton in the deal. Thornton is useless and TCQ is batting .237 at home this year. The Tank (if healthy) and a third baseman who can hit makes this team better today and tomorrow.

So we're going to trade the guy who is 12th in the AL in RBI and 11th in the AL in OPS to make room for a guy who MIGHT help us, because TCQ doesn't hit well at home?

Exactly what 3B are you expecting to get in return?

GoGoCrede
07-27-2011, 07:03 PM
Christ, I missed ALL the fun today. :(:

Red Barchetta
07-27-2011, 07:38 PM
Imagine if KW can move some more baggage and this team climbs back into it with some rookies and young talent, aka Viciedo, etc. How fun would that be?! :D:

PeteWard
07-27-2011, 07:39 PM
Watching Cabrera last night at first on the last out, you'd think he'd never won a game in the majors before.

They are quickly becoming a very classless squad, which is somewhat surprising given who their manager is.


Funny you should say that because Tuesday night in the 9th as Valverde was going through his "routine", Farmer was fuming and said he felt sorry for Leyland who has to watch this stuff every time he runs his closer out there.

Noneck
07-27-2011, 07:48 PM
They are quickly becoming a very classless squad, which is somewhat surprising given who their manager is.

Sorry but in my mind the manager matches the squad in this respect. I remember a young coach and a young manager going to tv studio to intimidate a older personality shortly after he had heart surgery because of some stupid comment he said on the air. I will always look at both of them as classless individuals because of this incident.

LITTLE NELL
07-27-2011, 07:58 PM
Up here from Florida this week, went to the game and the Sox rewarded us with a great victory. TCQ just missed a Grand Slam which would of made it easier on this 65 year old guy's nerves.

thomas35forever
07-27-2011, 08:10 PM
De Aza sure made his case right off the bat (no pun intended). Great outings from Danks and Sale too. Let's rest up tomorrow then pick up where we left off with the Red Sox.

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 08:35 PM
So we're going to trade the guy who is 12th in the AL in RBI and 11th in the AL in OPS to make room for a guy who MIGHT help us, because TCQ doesn't hit well at home?

Exactly what 3B are you expecting to get in return?

This team is stale and needs new life. TCQ has NEVER been good down the stretch and it is time to sell high. You know that TCQ is not one a great or even top 20 RF. Let some other team think so.

Zakath
07-27-2011, 08:51 PM
This team is stale and needs new life. TCQ has NEVER been good down the stretch and it is time to sell high. You know that TCQ is not one a great or even top 20 RF. Let some other team think so.

His highest monthly batting average in his career is what month?

September.

His career batting average post-All Star break is 15 points higher than his pre-Break average.

Yeah, he sucks down the stretch. Just the kind of guy you want to trade away right when we're headed... down the stretch.

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 09:04 PM
His highest monthly batting average in his career is what month?

September.

His career batting average post-All Star break is 15 points higher than his pre-Break average.

Yeah, he sucks down the stretch. Just the kind of guy you want to trade away right when we're headed... down the stretch.

He Mr. Stats, he has 500 fewer AB's after the All-star break and only 28 Career HR's in August and September! Sell High! Sell High!!

DSpivack
07-27-2011, 09:05 PM
This team is stale and needs new life. TCQ has NEVER been good down the stretch and it is time to sell high. You know that TCQ is not one a great or even top 20 RF. Let some other team think so.

There are 20 better RFs in baseball? Name 'em.

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 09:43 PM
There are 20 better RFs in baseball? Name 'em.

Ok, here we go....I know this is open to dabate: cruz, Choo, Upton, Bautista, Beltran, berkman, cuddyer, Francoeur, Markakis, pence, Bruce, S. Smith, Reddick, Heyward, joyce, Ichiro (yeah he is 50), the tank, the tank, the tank, and this dude from Cuba called Dayan.

blandman
07-27-2011, 09:49 PM
Ok, here we go....I know this is open to dabate: cruz, Choo, Upton, Bautista, Beltran, berkman, cuddyer, Francoeur, Markakis, pence, Bruce, S. Smith, Reddick, Heyward, joyce, Ichiro (yeah he is 50), the tank, the tank, the tank, and this dude from Cuba called Dayan.

:troll

JB98
07-27-2011, 09:53 PM
Ok, here we go....I know this is open to dabate: cruz, Choo, Upton, Bautista, Beltran, berkman, cuddyer, Francoeur, Markakis, pence, Bruce, S. Smith, Reddick, Heyward, joyce, Ichiro (yeah he is 50), the tank, the tank, the tank, and this dude from Cuba called Dayan.

Scratch five off your list. The bolded names are all fails.

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 10:00 PM
Scratch five off your list. The bolded names are all fails.

Ok. you got me on frenchie, but you wouldn't rather have reddick or heyward? Really? Really??/

DSpivack
07-27-2011, 10:04 PM
Ok. you got me on frenchie, but you wouldn't rather have reddick or heyward? Really? Really??/

Reddick won't keep on hitting like he is, just check out his minor league numbers.

Heyward is a huge prospect, but is really struggling this year.

I would also add Markakis, yes he's hitting .290 but he's completely lost any power he once had. That isn't worth $12 million a year or whatever he is making.

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 10:07 PM
Reddick won't keep on hitting like he is, just check out his minor league numbers.

Heyward is a huge prospect, but is really struggling this year.

I would also add Markakis, yes he's hitting .290 but he's completely lost any power he once had. That isn't worth $12 million a year or whatever he is making.

You are right he is not worth 12 million but a nice player. He looks great against us.

DSpivack
07-27-2011, 10:11 PM
You are right he is not worth 12 million but a nice player. He looks great against us.

Quentin has 46 extra base hits this season, while Markakis has just 24. And while Markakis is making $12 million this season, that bumps up to $15 million each of the next two season. He may have a great arm be much better defensively than Quentin, but that contract might get ugly.

JB98
07-27-2011, 10:13 PM
Ok. you got me on frenchie, but you wouldn't rather have reddick or heyward? Really? Really??/

Quentin has accomplished far more at the MLB level than both those two players. No one knows for sure what those guys will do in the future. Down the line, they might be better than Quentin. Or maybe not. Who knows?

They are both very, very early in their respective MLB careers. Right now, taking a snapshot at this moment, Quentin is clearly better than both.

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 10:15 PM
Quentin has 46 extra base hits this season, while Markakis has just 24. And while Markakis is making $12 million this season, that bumps up to $15 million each of the next two season. He may have a great arm be much better defensively than Quentin, but that contract might get ugly.

The ugly truth is that we have a poor farm system and two huge bad contracts (Dunn/Rios) . We need some good young players and CQ is the only (non-pitching) chip we hold.

DSpivack
07-27-2011, 10:17 PM
The ugly truth is that we have a poor farm system and two huge bad contracts (Dunn/Rios) . We need some good young players and CQ is the only (non-pitching) chip we hold.

I agree. I just would be very wary of dealing our only good bat besides Konerko.

And you can't have it both ways, either TCQ is a great trading chip or he's not one of the top 20 RFs in baseball. He's a damn good hitter.

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 10:21 PM
I agree. I just would be very wary of dealing our only good bat besides Konerko.

And you can't have it both ways, either TCQ is a great trading chip or he's not one of the top 20 RFs in baseball. He's a damn good hitter.

When healthy and he is a below average outfielder. Dayan is not going to win a gold glove, but CQ looks like the cartoon guys spinning their wheels. Good thing we have Beckham.

DSpivack
07-27-2011, 10:24 PM
When healthy and he is a below average outfielder. Dayan is not going to win a gold glove, but CQ looks like the cartoon guys spinning their wheels. Good thing we have Beckham.

Defensively, you're right he's poor. But his bat is among the best in the AL.

HarryChappas
07-27-2011, 10:30 PM
Defensively, you're right he's poor. But his bat is among the best in the AL.

Sell High. We need some changes. I think he has reached his potential and we have a fat hillbilly locked up at DH for the next 3 years.

voodoochile
07-27-2011, 10:48 PM
Sell High. We need some changes. I think he has reached his potential and we have a fat hillbilly locked up at DH for the next 3 years.

This adds nothing to the discussion and is against the rules please don't do it again.

ShooterMcGavin
07-27-2011, 11:38 PM
Agreed. Quentin has been our second most reliable bat behind Paulie this year. I think taking him out of the lineup and expecting Viciedo to immediately step in and produce the same way is a big leap of faith. To me, the guy that makes the most sense to move right now is Matt Thornton. We have a ton of bullpen depth this year and two reliable lefties in Sale and Ohman plus the newly acquired right hander Frasor. In the brief time we saw him, Hector Santiago looked like another capable left handed bullpen arm. Thornton is owed a good chunk of money and this is the first year in a Sox uniform he has shown a slight decline in velocity. I love Thornton but it seems to be a "sell high" situation. I'd like to see us add a bat by moving him but we'll see what happens.

I think this is a very reasonable post, and it does appear now is a time to sell high on Thornton. While I don't agree Ohman is a reliable lefty, I agree with everything else and would add that Bruney has been a nice surprise in the bullpen. When Bruney is Guillen's 5th-best reliever, the bullpen is in good shape.

Santos
Crain
Sale
Frasor
Bruney
Ohman

Zakath
07-27-2011, 11:48 PM
He Mr. Stats, he has 500 fewer AB's after the All-star break and only 28 Career HR's in August and September! Sell High! Sell High!!

Due to the fact that he missed most of September 2008 with a broken hand. You also have to add the fact that we aren't into August or September 2011 yet, which will add presumably another 200 AB+ to his total.

Zakath
07-27-2011, 11:53 PM
The ugly truth is that we have a poor farm system and two huge bad contracts (Dunn/Rios) . We need some good young players and CQ is the only (non-pitching) chip we hold.

So we're going to trade a very good young player (Carlos turns 29 next month) to get "good young players" who may or may not pan out.

Let's put a big hole in our lineup when we're in the middle of a pennant race to build for a future that may or may not come true.

No thanks.

DSpivack
07-27-2011, 11:54 PM
I think this is a very reasonable post, and it does appear now is a time to sell high on Thornton. While I don't agree Ohman is a reliable lefty, I agree with everything else and would add that Bruney has been a nice surprise in the bullpen. When Bruney is Guillen's 5th-best reliever, the bullpen is in good shape.

Santos
Crain
Sale
Frasor
Bruney
Ohman

With Thornton's contract, I don't think we would be getting any real prospects in return, it would just be a salary dump.

Zakath
07-28-2011, 12:04 AM
Ok, here we go....I know this is open to dabate: cruz, Choo, Upton, Bautista, Beltran, berkman, cuddyer, Francoeur, Markakis, pence, Bruce, S. Smith, Reddick, Heyward, joyce, Ichiro (yeah he is 50), the tank, the tank, the tank, and this dude from Cuba called Dayan.

Most of whom have worse fielding percentages right now than TCQ does, despite the fact that you think he's just horrid out there. Your first four guys are at or near the bottom of the qualified RF's in fielding percentage (Upton's committed 8 errors in RF this year, Cruz and Heyward have 5 each).

Trade him, and I'd say through the rest of the season PK might get 1 pitch to hit, only because some rookie will make a mistake.

cws05champ
07-28-2011, 12:11 AM
With Thornton's contract, I don't think we would be getting any real prospects in return, it would just be a salary dump.

Jesus...c'mon now. Thornton is owed a little over $2M for the rest of the year and $5.5M next year. Maybe a little over paid next year but not by much. He is one of the best, and has been one of the best set up men in the game. Sox are not going to trade him for a pure salary dump.

GoSox4
07-28-2011, 12:20 AM
You are right he is not worth 12 million but a nice player. He looks great against us.

So did Mark Teahan.

Foulke You
07-28-2011, 12:20 AM
With Thornton's contract, I don't think we would be getting any real prospects in return, it would just be a salary dump.
I disagree. Left handed relievers are worth their weight in gold and we happen to have one of the best in the AL the last few seasons in Matt Thornton. Ancient guys like Arthur Rhodes and Ron Mahay are still kept around by teams just because they throw with their left hand. Teams are ALWAYS looking for bullpen help at this time of year in a "win now" situation. Once upon a time, the Cubs sent us a prospect named Jon Garland for relief pitcher Matt Karchner because they were in the Wild Card hunt and needed another bullpen guy. Heck, in 1997 the Mariners sent prospects Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek the the Red Sox for reliever Heathcliff Slocumb. It is a reality that KW can flip Thornton for a useful player or prospect.

DSpivack
07-28-2011, 12:21 AM
Jesus...c'mon now. Thornton is owed a little over $2M for the rest of the year and $5.5M next year. Maybe a little over paid next year but not by much. He is one of the best, and has been one of the best set up men in the game. Sox are not going to trade him for a pure salary dump.

He'll be 35 at the end of the season is owed $5.5 million each of the next two seasons. That's a lot of money for a reliever.

I can see him being moved, I just wouldn't expect much in return.

cws05champ
07-28-2011, 07:59 AM
He'll be 35 at the end of the season is owed $5.5 million each of the next two seasons. That's a lot of money for a reliever.

I can see him being moved, I just wouldn't expect much in return.
There is a $1M buyout after next year, so any team that acquires him are only on the hook for next year. Thornton should bring back a decent prospect....you are completely underrating his value.

October26
07-28-2011, 08:02 AM
Did I mention that I love the title of this thread?

I would add that Danks-Sale also dazed the Tigers. :D:

Oh and I knew something big had happened yesterday when I visited WSI and there were 250+ folks here at like 11am. I had a super hectic morning at work; many thanks to WSI for providing updates on the latest Sox news, especially as we approach the MLB trade deadline.

doublem23
07-28-2011, 08:20 AM
There is a $1M buyout after next year, so any team that acquires him are only on the hook for next year. Thornton should bring back a decent prospect....you are completely underrating his value.

The $1 M buyout is for the 2014 season, Thornton is already signed for 2012 ($5.5 M) and 2013 ($5.5 M) (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thornma01.shtml#contracts). That's a lot of money for a guy who has, at this point, only proven to be an effective 8th inning guy.

Tragg
07-28-2011, 08:41 AM
Another problem with moving Thornton is that might mean that Guillen pitches Sale's arm off.

DSpivack
07-28-2011, 12:10 PM
The $1 M buyout is for the 2014 season, Thornton is already signed for 2012 ($5.5 M) and 2013 ($5.5 M) (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/t/thornma01.shtml#contracts). That's a lot of money for a guy who has, at this point, only proven to be an effective 8th inning guy.

There is a $1M buyout after next year, so any team that acquires him are only on the hook for next year. Thornton should bring back a decent prospect....you are completely underrating his value.

He's a soon to be 35 year old reliever on the decline, his WHIP is awful this year (worst on the White Sox this season of any regular), and his strikeouts are down. I think he's on the decline, and as Doub said, he's expensive for two more seasons. I don't think his value is as high as some fans think.

SBSoxFan
07-28-2011, 08:48 PM
He's a soon to be 35 year old reliever on the decline, his WHIP is awful this year (worst on the White Sox this season of any regular), and his strikeouts are down. I think he's on the decline, and as Doub said, he's expensive for two more seasons. I don't think his value is as high as some fans think.

His strikeouts are down, but he's still averaging almost 1 per inning. Perhaps his WHIP is inflated due to the stellar defense the Sox played behind him in the beginning of the year?

I think he could benefit from finally learning a secondary pitch --- something beyond a show-me slider --- at this stage of his career to remain effective.