PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 7-26 Darn leadoff Walks Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:16 PM
Should've won that.

DirtySox
07-26-2011, 11:16 PM
Jake Peavy still isn't very good.

russ99
07-26-2011, 11:17 PM
Wilson Betemit... that's gotta sting, Kenny.

cleanwsox
07-26-2011, 11:17 PM
4 runs against Verlander should have been enough.

Peavy blows.

russ99
07-26-2011, 11:17 PM
Peavy still isn't very good.

If the guy isn't healthy enough to go 6, they should shut him down.

CHISOXFAN13
07-26-2011, 11:17 PM
If the Sox lose tomorrow, it might help my sanity. Tired of getting excited about this team every time they win two or three games in a row.

OmahaSoxFan
07-26-2011, 11:17 PM
Oh well... win tomorrow and everything will be okay... lose tomorrow - and fire-sale time perhaps.

Nice to see the Sox get 4 runs off Verlander, but sadly the Tigers took advantage of their opportunities and evened up the series. Just win tomorrow!

GoGoCrede
07-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Betemit, screwing the Sox since 2009. Or whatever year he was with us.

Mohoney
07-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Please don't trade Edwin Jackson under the impression that Jake Peavy can be counted on this season.

Patrick134
07-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Win the series tomorrow and it's all good.

CHISOXFAN13
07-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Thornton once again blows when it matters most.

Ozzie's matchup bull**** costs the Sox again. At some point, he will figure out that Crain is real good against lefties.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-26-2011, 11:18 PM
So this is the guy they moved our most effective starter, Humber, into the pen for?

BOOOOOO

jshanahanjr
07-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Jake's a 5 inning pitcher, and what's with Ozzie managing the bullpen? Is he a math wiz or a baseball manager?

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:19 PM
Betemit, screwing the Sox since 2009. Or whatever year he was with us.
You're right.

amsteel
07-26-2011, 11:19 PM
Wah Wah, you're gonna lose close games to division leaders. Peavy continues to make his case to become a reliever and get his mouth sewn shut.

The whole season rests on tomorrow's game. We might see a whole different team by the time Boston gets here Friday night.

Brian26
07-26-2011, 11:19 PM
Win the series tomorrow and it's all good.

The Sox didn't need to sweep, but tomorrow is D-Day.

JB98
07-26-2011, 11:19 PM
Peavy still isn't very good.

He's only good for five innings. The manager still thinks Peavy is an ace. He's a fool.

The Sox needed a big out from Thornton in the eighth and he couldn't provide that. Valverde threw hangers to both Quentin and Pierzynski in the ninth. Neither man hit the ball hard.

That's the story of the 2011 Sox. They aren't that far away, but when they get a chance to assert themselves, they screw the pooch 100 percent of the time. They'll never get over the hump. Treading water is what they do.

TheOldRoman
07-26-2011, 11:19 PM
The offense wasn't good, but you can't expect much more than 4 runs off Verlander. Ozzie lost the game by not pulling Peavy after the first two batters got on in the 6th. How the **** do you leave him in after he is faced four hitters and all of them got on? And then having Ohman pitch an inning plus in a tie game? It seemed like he wanted to lose.

And as for Thornton, way to blow. It's likely our final memory of you in Chicago will be blowing the game by giving up a hit to garbage like Wilson Betemit. Thanks for the memories, though.

Woofer
07-26-2011, 11:19 PM
They just refuse to get to .500. A win tomorrow would be great, but I'm through holding my breath.

Marqhead
07-26-2011, 11:21 PM
Mr_uHJPUlO8&ob=av3e

Foulke You
07-26-2011, 11:21 PM
Is it me or has Betemit had at least 5 game winning hits against us since stinking it up on the South Side of Chicago for half of 2009? Also, I'm learning to dislike Detroit. Valverde's antics are pretty annoying considering he hung two meatballs in that inning. Also, what is with Cabrera's 9 fist pumps at the end there? Maybe I'm just angry we lost this game...:angry:

voodoochile
07-26-2011, 11:21 PM
How the hell is Valverde 27/27 in save opportunities. He throws meatballs. AJ and TCQ just missed tying the game.

russ99
07-26-2011, 11:21 PM
Thornton once again blows when it matters most.

Ozzie's matchup bull**** costs the Sox again. At some point, he will figure out that Crain is real good against lefties.

Crain pitched in all of the last 4 games. With an open base, Thornton shouldn't have given him anything to hit.

If anything, he shouldn't have left Ohman in to start the 8th.

sox230
07-26-2011, 11:22 PM
What will happen is the 2011 Sox will be the 2011 Sox and it will still be unclear on July 31st to the Sox brass whether we are a contender or not. To me, it's pretty simple: with this lineup and coaching staff we will not be above .500 and never get within 3 games. This entire organization is an absolute joke. Most frustrating baseball season of my life (25 years) based on expectations, coaching stupidity, organizational politics and unjustified arrogance, resulting in a complete lack of accountability.:angry::angry::angry::angry:

ChiSoxGal85
07-26-2011, 11:22 PM
This one stings, but it was an extremely close game against Justin Verlander - who is Cy Young material this year. And no teal implied there at all. Yes, I'm (reluctantly) tipping a cap to him. Peavy was just not as good. And Thornton had no business grooving a fastball to Wilson Betemit.

I wanted the win. But damn - I'm not suicidal about a 5-4 loss. Let's get them tomorrow and get the series.

Patrick134
07-26-2011, 11:22 PM
The Sox didn't need to sweep, but tomorrow is D-Day.

Neither the Tigers or Tribe are good enough teams to make tomorrow a must win game.

CHISOXFAN13
07-26-2011, 11:22 PM
Not buying the winning two out of three thing being good enough. The Sox did that in Detroit and they are still in the same position they were before that series started.

Detroit takes care of business elsewhere. The White Sox don't.

Falstaff
07-26-2011, 11:23 PM
So, anyway, that idea about Jake for middle relief role (remember, he suggested it about 10 days ago?) maybe that's not so crazy, eh?

PalehosePlanet
07-26-2011, 11:23 PM
Jake Peavy still isn't very good.

In general that's true, but I thought he was more unlucky than bad tonight.

balke
07-26-2011, 11:23 PM
If anything, he shouldn't have left Ohman in to start the 8th.


They did. It was a tie game and Ohman was cruising. Thornton needed to shut the door - he's better than that.

TheOldRoman
07-26-2011, 11:23 PM
He's only good for five innings. The manager still thinks Peavy is an ace. He's a fool.Peavy IS still an ace. However, he is at about 70% in regaining strength after the surgery. He doesn't have endurance yet and falls apart as he gets to 100 pitches, but he will be fine next year. Ozzie blew the game because he let Jake get hit four times in the 6th before he went to to the mound, even though Humber was temporarily added to the bullpen.

CHISOXFAN13
07-26-2011, 11:24 PM
Crain pitched in all of the last 4 games. With an open base, Thornton shouldn't have given him anything to hit.

If anything, he shouldn't have left Ohman in to start the 8th.

I would have been fine with giving Crain the night off as well. And I agree with you about Ohman. He did his job in the seventh. Not his job to keep throwing.

It's late July and bullpen roles still haven't been determined.

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:24 PM
Is it me or has Betemit had at least 5 game winning hits against us since stinking it up on the South Side of Chicago for half of 2009? Also, I'm learning to dislike Detroit. Valverde's antics are pretty annoying considering he hung two meatballs in that inning. Also, what is with Cabrera's 9 fist pumps at the end there? Maybe I'm just angry we lost this game...:angry:
According to Baseball-Reference.com, Betemit came into tonight hitting .395 with 3 homers and 9 RBIs against us for his career.

A. Cavatica
07-26-2011, 11:24 PM
Please don't trade Edwin Jackson under the impression that Jake Peavy can be counted on this season.

No, but trade him because he's too expensive for a #4 starter.

DickAllen72
07-26-2011, 11:24 PM
Jake Peavy still isn't very good.
Everyone knows Peavy does well until he reaches about 70-75 pitches. He's coming off major surgery and has not regained his strength and endurance yet.

He should have been pulled after the fifth inning.

This loss is on Ozzie and his mismanagement of the pitching.

Fisk Fan
07-26-2011, 11:25 PM
The offense wasn't good, but you can't expect much more than 4 runs off Verlander. Ozzie lost the game by not pulling Peavy after the first two batters got on in the 6th. How the **** do you leave him in after he is faced four hitters and all of them got on? And then having Ohman pitch an inning plus in a tie game? It seemed like he wanted to lose.

And as for Thornton, way to blow. It's likely our final memory of you in Chicago will be blowing the game by giving up a hit to garbage like Wilson Betemit. Thanks for the memories, though.


Ding Ding. We have a winner....

DirtySox
07-26-2011, 11:25 PM
In general that's true, but I thought he was more unlucky than bad tonight.

I thought he was pretty lucky actually. Lots of hard hit balls right at people as well as some pretty great defensive backing. Could have been much worse in my opinion.

balke
07-26-2011, 11:25 PM
So, anyway, that idea about Jake for middle relief role (remember, he suggested it about 10 days ago?) maybe that's not so crazy, eh?

Yeah it is.

SI1020
07-26-2011, 11:25 PM
Peavy IS still an ace. Ahh no.

TheOldRoman
07-26-2011, 11:28 PM
Ahh no.Oh, wow. That settles it, then.

JB98
07-26-2011, 11:28 PM
Peavy IS still an ace. However, he is at about 70% in regaining strength after the surgery. He doesn't have endurance yet and falls apart as he gets to 100 pitches, but he will be fine next year. Ozzie blew the game because he let Jake get hit four times in the 6th before he went to to the mound, even though Humber was temporarily added to the bullpen.

Not right now he isn't.

Maybe next year he will be fine, but right now he's a five-inning pitcher and the sixth-best starter in this rotation.

I'm one of the people who is willing to go easy on Peavy because I know he isn't 100 percent. I'm furious with the manager because he is too stupid to recognize that.

palehozenychicty
07-26-2011, 11:28 PM
Another game that was there to win. Well, we'll know something in the next couple days. To Buy or Sell, That Is The Question?

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:29 PM
Another game that was there to win. Well, we'll know something in the next couple days. To Buy or Sell, That Is The Question?
Then after they sell, we can hear the front office bitch about low attendance again.

PalehosePlanet
07-26-2011, 11:30 PM
I thought he was pretty lucky actually. Lots of hard hit balls right at people as well as some pretty great defensive backing. Could have been much worse in my opinion.

Disagree. Four infield hits, a pop-up hit and two jam shot hits. They started hitting the ball hard after the bad luck and as his pitch count climbed.

Huisj
07-26-2011, 11:30 PM
Peavy IS still an ace. However, he is at about 70% in regaining strength after the surgery. He doesn't have endurance yet and falls apart as he gets to 100 pitches, but he will be fine next year. Ozzie blew the game because he let Jake get hit four times in the 6th before he went to to the mound, even though Humber was temporarily added to the bullpen.


He's at 70% endurance, so he loses effectiveness quickly...and then there's that matter of throwing just about all fastballs the whole game. That mixed with getting tired quickly isn't going to work.

The theme of the night was that sometimes, you gotta have an offspeed pitch. Peavy didn't have one, and it got to him, and Thornton didn't have one (never really does), and it got to him.

Tragg
07-26-2011, 11:30 PM
Betemit and Peavy.

Nice.

russ99
07-26-2011, 11:30 PM
Everyone knows Peavy does well until he reaches about 70-75 pitches. He's coming off major surgery and has not regained his strength and endurance yet.

He should have been pulled after the fifth inning.

This loss is on Ozzie and his mismanagement of the pitching.

Except he has done well earlier this season into 100 pitches, and he was given extra days rest before this start. Besides, Ozzie's always giving starters a chance to work out of jams, this is nothing new. It worked for Mark last night.

We tied the game after Peavy was out of the game. This is on Thornton not doing his job, forgetting the situation and trying to strike out Betemit on a 3-2 count over and over.

Then once we're down late, this team reverts to fence-swinging, instead of getting a man on, getting him over and getting him in.

DickAllen72
07-26-2011, 11:30 PM
Ozzie on postgame interview in response to why not pulling Peavy after 75 pitches saying he doesn't go by pitches but by innings.

I still say he should have just pulled Peavy after the fifth inning when he was around the 70-75 pitch mark and put in Humber for a couple of innings.

Lip Man 1
07-26-2011, 11:31 PM
They had their chances, no one to blame but themselves.

Wilson Betemit...hilarious.

Lip

TommyGavinFloyd
07-26-2011, 11:32 PM
I don't know why people keep saying these games are going to determine if the Sox are buyers or sellers. Who the **** can we afford to buy? We will either be sellers or just go with who we have. If it's up to me we don't sell but I don't make the decisions.

PS Thanks Matt Thornton, once again you come through when we need you. Remember when this guy was an All-Star?

balke
07-26-2011, 11:32 PM
Except he has done well earlier this season into 100 pitches, and he was given extra days rest before this start. Besides, Ozzie's always giving starters a chance to work out of jams, this is nothing new. It worked for Mark last night.

We tied the game after Peavy was out of the game. This is on Thornton not doing his job, forgetting the situation and trying to strike out Betemit on a 3-2 count over and over.

Then once we're down late, this team reverts to fence-swinging, instead of getting a man on, getting him over and getting him in.

This is one situation where I liked the fence swinging approach. Down by 1 and Quentin has been hot. Both he and AJ just barely missed HR shots.

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:33 PM
This is one situation where I liked the fence swinging approach. Down by 1 and Quentin has been hot. Both he and AJ just barely missed HR shots.
True. If the wind had been blowing out, maybe those leave the field.

JB98
07-26-2011, 11:33 PM
Except he has done well earlier this season into 100 pitches, and he was given extra days rest before this start. Besides, Ozzie's always giving starters a chance to work out of jams, this is nothing new. It worked for Mark last night.

We tied the game after Peavy was out of the game. This is on Thornton not doing his job, forgetting the situation and trying to strike out Betemit on a 3-2 count over and over.

Then once we're down late, this team reverts to fence-swinging, instead of getting a man on, getting him over and getting him in.

Buehrle isn't less than one year removed from an unprecedented surgery.

TheOldRoman
07-26-2011, 11:33 PM
Not right now he isn't.

Maybe next year he will be fine, but right now he's a five-inning pitcher and the sixth-best starter in this rotation.

I'm one of the people who is willing to go easy on Peavy because I know he isn't 100 percent. I'm furious with the manager because he is too stupid to recognize that.Right. I don't mean Peavy is the lights out ace who is going to go 8 and strike out 9 right now, but that is because of his recovery. But yes, this is all on Ozzie. It has been mentioned on here repeatedly that Peavy's ERA soars when he gets to 90 pitches. Esepecially with Humber being available, leaving Peavy in was a horrible decision.

chisoxfanatic
07-26-2011, 11:33 PM
Neither the Tigers or Tribe are good enough teams to make tomorrow a must win game.
To win the division, we need to win more divisional games. With the trading deadline looming, the further we are from first (even by a couple games), the more likely Kenny is to not "go for it" this year. Yea, we have 60 games left, but there are only a handful before the deadline. Losing tomorrow would be extremely bad.

Mohoney
07-26-2011, 11:34 PM
No, but trade him because he's too expensive for a #4 starter.

Trading him is effectively giving up on this season.

WhiteSox5187
07-26-2011, 11:37 PM
Tomorrow is the most important game of the season. Lose tomorrow and it's pretty much over.

This is a minor thing but I think the baseball gods were out to get us. With the tying run on second and two outs in the eighth some idiots thought it would be a good idea to start the ****ing wave. I guess the game just wasn't interesting enough.

A. Cavatica
07-26-2011, 11:37 PM
Trading him is effectively giving up on this season.

They gave up on the season months ago, when they didn't adjust. Trading him now is just getting the most you can before he becomes a free agent.

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:38 PM
If the Sox sell, I don't think it would be appropriate to maintain the campaign. I know they've probably spent a lot of money on it, but you can't claim to be "All In" when you trade away some of your key commodities.

balke
07-26-2011, 11:38 PM
I don't know why people keep saying these games are going to determine if the Sox are buyers or sellers. Who the **** can we afford to buy? We will either be sellers or just go with who we have. If it's up to me we don't sell but I don't make the decisions.



I believe they are either sellers or blower-uppers. Mark Buehrle and TCQ might be on the table here if they lose tomorrow and/or the Red sox series.

Regardless - Jackson's salary is likely coming off the books.

balke
07-26-2011, 11:40 PM
Trading him is effectively giving up on this season.


What season? This team hasn't been .500 all year. Who are they going to beat? Even if they win the division - look at Texas or the Yankees or the Red Sox. Does Edwin Jackson really mean anything to this team?

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:41 PM
What season? This team hasn't been .500 all year. Who are they going to beat? Even if they win the division - look at Texas or the Yankees or the Red Sox. Does Edwin Jackson really mean anything to this team?
If by "mean anything" you mean build up value so we can get some good young players in return for him, then yes.

balke
07-26-2011, 11:41 PM
Tomorrow is the most important game of the season. Lose tomorrow and it's pretty much over.


I think this could've been said during the Twins series before the break.

DickAllen72
07-26-2011, 11:42 PM
Except he has done well earlier this season into 100 pitches, and he was given extra days rest before this start. Besides, Ozzie's always giving starters a chance to work out of jams, this is nothing new. It worked for Mark last night.

I read earlier today that opponents entering tonight were batting 24-for-59 off Peavy once he gets to 75 pitches. This game was too important to let Peavy try to "work out of it" with that being the case. Ozzie should have known this and it was obvious Jake was tapped out after five tonight.

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:43 PM
This required a new thread? Seriously?
I didn't see any other thread talking about it.

Domeshot17
07-26-2011, 11:43 PM
More managing baseball for dummies by Ozzie. One day we will have a real manager.

Brian26
07-26-2011, 11:45 PM
I didn't see any other thread talking about it.

It's not unprecedented for the Sox to just drop the marketing campaign 67% of the way thru the season.

JB98
07-26-2011, 11:46 PM
Right. I don't mean Peavy is the lights out ace who is going to go 8 and strike out 9 right now, but that is because of his recovery. But yes, this is all on Ozzie. It has been mentioned on here repeatedly that Peavy's ERA soars when he gets to 90 pitches. Esepecially with Humber being available, leaving Peavy in was a horrible decision.

Doing a little research for my blog right now. Looks like Peavy loses it in a hurry once he hits around 75 pitches.

Pitches 51-75: Opposing batters hit .140.
Pitches 76-100: Opposing batters hit .457.

That was coming into tonight's start. I don't think this outing this evening will do much to modify these statistics.

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:46 PM
It's not unprecedented for the Sox to just drop the marketing campaign 67% of the way thru the season.
I wasn't following the Sox as closely during the "It's Time" campaign. How long did that one last?

GoGoCrede
07-26-2011, 11:47 PM
It's not unprecedented for the Sox to just drop the marketing campaign 67% of the way thru the season.

Christ, what a colossal flop this campaign will be if we don't win the division. And it started out so well...

PalehosePlanet
07-26-2011, 11:49 PM
Real tough spot for KW and JR here.

What if we win tomorrow, lose Friday, win Saturday and are still 3.5 games back going into Sunday, 7/31? Does JR do another "white flag" trade and risk the PR hit again?

We were 3.5 back, IIRC, back in '97 also.

Mohoney
07-26-2011, 11:49 PM
What season? This team hasn't been .500 all year. Who are they going to beat? Even if they win the division - look at Texas or the Yankees or the Red Sox. Does Edwin Jackson really mean anything to this team?

It's all about getting to the playoffs to give yourself the chance to win. If this team, this season, doesn't make the playoffs, it's going to be a COMPLETE tear-down and rebuild. It's going to look eerily similar to the bad team buried in bad money 8 miles north.

This is probably the only chance that this team will have to do something significant for about 4 or 5 years. Might as well keep it together for 2 months and try to win a bad division.

WhiteSox1989
07-26-2011, 11:51 PM
I can't believe they lost this one. I expected to come home to a winner.

Ah well. Take the series tomorrow.

balke
07-26-2011, 11:52 PM
It's all about getting to the playoffs to give yourself the chance to win. If this team, this season, doesn't make the playoffs, it's going to be a COMPLETE tear-down and rebuild. It's going to look eerily similar to the bad team buried in bad money 8 miles north.

This is probably the only chance that this team will have to do something significant for about 4 or 5 years. Might as well keep it together for 2 months and try to win a bad division.

You can still let go of Jackson right now and be fine. Could let go of Q too in my opinion. If you really think Viciedo is worth all the talk - let him play in RF. If he ends up sucking - continue the tear down next season.

thomas35forever
07-26-2011, 11:52 PM
This is probably the only chance that this team will have to do something significant for about 4 or 5 years. Might as well keep it together for 2 months and try to win a bad division.
If we're ever going to win the World Series again, we probably don't have any other choice. I'd rather know it's going to be a few years than get my hopes up for a pretending contending team.

TheOldRoman
07-27-2011, 12:01 AM
It's all about getting to the playoffs to give yourself the chance to win. If this team, this season, doesn't make the playoffs, it's going to be a COMPLETE tear-down and rebuild. It's going to look eerily similar to the bad team buried in bad money 8 miles north.

This is probably the only chance that this team will have to do something significant for about 4 or 5 years. Might as well keep it together for 2 months and try to win a bad division.That is complete nonsense. The Sox will still have Viciedo, Konerko, Ramirez, Beckham, 5 of their starters, Santos, Crain and Sale regardless of what happens at the deadline. Throw in the fact that Peavy is 70% and will be fully healthy next year, along with Dunn's rebound, this team isn't that far away. People said that "won't compete for at least 5 years" line in 2007 and the Sox won the division the next year.

Mohoney
07-27-2011, 12:03 AM
You can still let go of Jackson right now and be fine. Could let go of Q too in my opinion. If you really think Viciedo is worth all the talk - let him play in RF. If he ends up sucking - continue the tear down next season.

I don't think you can let go of Jackson and be fine. This 6 man rotation has seen Mark Buehrle pitch 15 consecutive quality starts. He's been light-years better this year than he has been in a while. Buehrle's improvement, plus the insurance against injury that it offers, makes the 6 man seem to me to be the only way we still stay in this race THIS year.

I don't see ANY way that Quentin could be dealt and we stay in the race this year.

balke
07-27-2011, 12:08 AM
I don't think you can let go of Jackson and be fine. This 6 man rotation has seen Mark Buehrle pitch 15 consecutive quality starts. He's been light-years better this year than he has been in a while. Buehrle's improvement, plus the insurance against injury that it offers, makes the 6 man seem to me to be the only way we still stay in this race THIS year.

I don't see ANY way that Quentin could be dealt and we stay in the race this year.


Yeah the 6 man is wonderful - the pitching is maybe the best in the AL right now. Still below .500 you say? Offense has 3 or 4 of the worst hitters in baseball?

How will you feel about competing with the Tigers if they trade for Jimenez or Harang or Kuroda?

Mohoney
07-27-2011, 12:10 AM
That is complete nonsense. The Sox will still have Viciedo, Konerko, Ramirez, Beckham, 5 of their starters, Santos, Crain and Sale regardless of what happens at the deadline. Throw in the fact that Peavy is 70% and will be fully healthy next year, along with Dunn's rebound, this team isn't that far away. People said that "won't compete for at least 5 years" line in 2007 and the Sox won the division the next year.

1. Buehrle will probably be gone too, so that leaves 4 starters.

2. You're counting on Phil Humber to annually replicate the season that he's had this year? Wouldn't you call that a huge risk?

3. I see a very real possibility that Jake Peavy might be permanently fried. You seem to take it for granted that he's automatically going to get back to his previous form.

4. You're also automatically writing in an increase in offensive productivity from Gordon Beckham. Another huge risk.

HaroMaster87
07-27-2011, 12:11 AM
I remember Spiegel on Hit and Run had a stat where Peavy from the sixth inning on has an ERA way over !0....cant remember the exact stat but its crazy...

Mohoney
07-27-2011, 12:12 AM
Yeah the 6 man is wonderful - the pitching is maybe the best in the AL right now. Still below .500 you say? Offense has 3 or 4 of the worst hitters in baseball?

How will you feel about competing with the Tigers if they trade for Jimenez or Harang or Kuroda?

I'll feel better about that than I would feel about actively worsening our chances by breaking it up.

HaroMaster87
07-27-2011, 12:16 AM
That is complete nonsense. The Sox will still have Viciedo, Konerko, Ramirez, Beckham, 5 of their starters, Santos, Crain and Sale regardless of what happens at the deadline. Throw in the fact that Peavy is 70% and will be fully healthy next year, along with Dunn's rebound, this team isn't that far away. People said that "won't compete for at least 5 years" line in 2007 and the Sox won the division the next year.

Exactly...how many people were super pissed after the Carlos Lee trade? How many people picked the Sox to win the WS in '05?

You never know how the pieces will fit together...were the Sox the most talented team top to bottom on paper in MLB in '05? Probably not...but they were the best TEAM...no doubt...

PeteWard
07-27-2011, 12:32 AM
Tomorrow is the most important game of the season. Lose tomorrow and it's pretty much over.

This is a minor thing but I think the baseball gods were out to get us. With the tying run on second and two outs in the eighth some idiots thought it would be a good idea to start the ****ing wave. I guess the game just wasn't interesting enough.

Where do these people come from?

SI1020
07-27-2011, 12:34 AM
3. I see a very real possibility that Jake Peavy might be permanently fried. You seem to take it for granted that he's automatically going to get back to his previous form.
He's an ace.

A. Cavatica
07-27-2011, 12:35 AM
1. Buehrle will probably be gone too, so that leaves 4 starters.

2. You're counting on Phil Humber to annually replicate the season that he's had this year? Wouldn't you call that a huge risk?

3. I see a very real possibility that Jake Peavy might be permanently fried. You seem to take it for granted that he's automatically going to get back to his previous form.

4. You're also automatically writing in an increase in offensive productivity from Gordon Beckham. Another huge risk.

Jackson is a .500 pitcher. Even if the rotation goes south next year, he is not someone to build around.

Mohoney
07-27-2011, 12:37 AM
Jackson is a .500 pitcher. Even if the rotation goes south next year, he is not someone to build around.

I'm NOT building around him. I'm using him for THIS year, and if we don't win, I'll take the sandwich pick when he signs elsewhere. I don't see much more coming back our way if we do trade him.

hawkjt
07-27-2011, 12:38 AM
This game was lost by :
1. Ozzies stubborn refusal to see the obvious,that Jake was done in the 5th. Everyone knows his numbers drop after 70 pitches.
2. Ozzie's stubborness not to walk Betimet to set up Thornton vs lefty Avila. And of course Thornton had Betimet 1-2 and gave him a pitch almost down the middle instead of giving him nothing with 1st base open.

Win tomorrow,or shut it down.
Bottom line: The tigers have a much,much better offense than the Sox...it is good. The tigers have a very easy schedule the rest of the way. They only play two more series out of the divison vs teams over .500 the rest of the season, this week vs LA and then TExas. After that,nothing but KC,Tribe,Twins,Sox,O's...and Rays. Much easier slate the rest of the way than the Sox.

This was a heartbreaker,and I lay it on Ozzie who refuses to manage the huge losses to Detroit ten days ago,then KC,like they were season breakers. They were,Sox lost,and now it will time for Kenny to fold the tent. Thanks Ozzie.

A. Cavatica
07-27-2011, 12:38 AM
I'm NOT building around him. I'm using him for THIS year, and if we don't win, I'll take the sandwich pick when he signs elsewhere. I don't see much more coming back our way if we do trade him.

Wake up. Ozzie is still the manager. Nothing's happening this year.

Mohoney
07-27-2011, 12:45 AM
Wake up. Ozzie is still the manager. Nothing's happening this year.

I refuse to give up on this team having the ability to win this division. I can't see this team wasting this stellar pitching staff.

thomas35forever
07-27-2011, 12:47 AM
I refuse to give up on this team having the ability to win this division. I can't see this team wasting this stellar pitching staff.
The offense begs to differ.

guillensdisciple
07-27-2011, 12:47 AM
Last time I say this. Tomorrow is the make or break of the season. Win tomorrow and you're good, lose and start selling.

BainesHOF
07-27-2011, 01:02 AM
It's not over if we lose tomorrow. It's already over because we're a bad, dumb team with a stupid manager.

Kudos to many posters here who know the score. I enjoy reading what you write. The professional beat reporters in this town are a joke.

Nellie_Fox
07-27-2011, 01:04 AM
More managing baseball for dummies by Ozzie. One day we will have a real manager.And when there is a new manager, how long will it take before posters here are mother****ing him?

kevingrt
07-27-2011, 01:20 AM
And when there is a new manager, how long will it take before posters here are mother****ing him?

Well can we get a new manager and GM and then we can start ripping apart the whole new regime?

BainesHOF
07-27-2011, 01:24 AM
And when there is a new manager, how long will it take before posters here are mother****ing him?

It depends on who is hired. Bevington and Manuel were clowns. Jeff Torborg and Jim Fregosi were good.

By the way, the problem is not fans ripping Guillen. It's Guillen's managing.

Nellie_Fox
07-27-2011, 01:39 AM
It depends on who is hired. Bevington and Manuel were clowns. Jeff Torborg and Jim Fregosi were good.

By the way, the problem is not fans ripping Guillen. It's Guillen's managing.
B.S. Every fan base screams that their manager is a clown, and the existence of internet message boards gives them a place where they can find dozens of people to validate them. There is another thread on here with a link to a Tigers board where they are saying the exact same things about Leyland. I live in Minnesota, and constantly hear Twins fans saying Gardenhire doesn't know how to use a bullpen and has to go.

I didn't say it's a problem, just face the facts that replacing Guillen (and/or KW) is not going to make fans happy for long. They'll turn on the replacements.

thomas35forever
07-27-2011, 01:39 AM
Well can we get a new manager and GM and then we can start ripping apart the whole new regime?
This is why some baseball people get turned off by this organization.

SoxSpeed22
07-27-2011, 01:59 AM
Rays fans turned on Joe Maddon at some point so I'm not that concerned with that. I'm not saying we're going to get Joe Maddon next, but give the new guy (if it happens) a chance with a good team.
Even though we've been playing better than we have before, we are still finding ways to lose. I don't blame Peavy that much, since he is awful after 75 pitches, and we could've used Humber to start the 6th, but didn't. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Dan H
07-27-2011, 02:43 AM
It's not over if we lose tomorrow. It's already over because we're a bad, dumb team with a stupid manager.

Kudos to many posters here who know the score. I enjoy reading what you write. The professional beat reporters in this town are a joke.

Seasons aren't won in April and May but they can be lost in April and May. Tough decisions should have been made then and now every game seems more and more important. Now the organization faces some more tough decisions as the trade deadline approaches. That's what a bad start does to you.

captain54
07-27-2011, 03:13 AM
I didn't say it's a problem, just face the facts that replacing Guillen (and/or KW) is not going to make fans happy for long.

I don't think the organization should be considering whether the fans are happy with the manager, KW, etc. They should be trying to figure out how to get the asses back in the seats at the Cell.

doublem23
07-27-2011, 07:03 AM
So this is the guy they moved our most effective starter, Humber, into the pen for?

BOOOOOO

That and trying to keep Humber fresh, guy's never pitched this much in his career before.

Hitmen77
07-27-2011, 09:04 AM
Since their little run in May to get themselves back from 11 under .500, this team has really settled in at around 2 games under .500. 79-80 wins, here we come!:party:

Meanwhile, another loss and another day closer to the Sox blowing up this team. But, at least ownership is loyal to the Kenny, Ozzie, and Walker team that has brought us 5 years of mediocrity!

Oh, and is anyone really that surprised that Wilson Betemit is now biting the Sox in their behinds? He's a butcher in the field, but offensively he's just another guy who was an okay hitter before and then started to suck at offense once he joined the Sox.

Carolina Kenny
07-27-2011, 09:11 AM
Everyone knows Peavy does well until he reaches about 70-75 pitches. He's coming off major surgery and has not regained his strength and endurance yet.

He should have been pulled after the fifth inning.

This loss is on Ozzie and his mismanagement of the pitching.

I agree. I guess Ozzie is trying to build Peavy up even if it means losing to the division leader in the middle of a pennant race. That old Oz, he sure is a stitch.

Also, the Tigers and Indians sure don't look that impressive.
We should be running away with this division.

Procol Harum
07-27-2011, 10:04 AM
Also, the Tigers and Indians sure don't look that impressive.
We should be running away with this division.

We should be--if the Sox had a good team. All the indicators seem to point to mediocrity, however, so it's not surprising that we're floundering in the waves and taking on water.

happydude
07-27-2011, 10:41 AM
B.S. Every fan base screams that their manager is a clown, and the existence of internet message boards gives them a place where they can find dozens of people to validate them. There is another thread on here with a link to a Tigers board where they are saying the exact same things about Leyland. I live in Minnesota, and constantly hear Twins fans saying Gardenhire doesn't know how to use a bullpen and has to go.

I didn't say it's a problem, just face the facts that replacing Guillen (and/or KW) is not going to make fans happy for long. They'll turn on the replacements.

Truer words have never been spoken. It's all a matter of perspective...

amsteel
07-27-2011, 11:24 AM
Today is one game, and while it doesn't determine the season, it may determine some personnel moves. In reality, I don't see the Sox getting any worse based on any moves they make barring something drastic.

This team will be .500 +/- 3 games and 4-6 games out all year. A faint glimmer of hope will exist until the last 2 weeks of the season.

BP projects the Sox to finish with a record of 82-80, meaning a record of 32-28 for the rest of the season. A record of 36-24 the rest of the way will put them in a good spot to win the division. Projections like this tend to be conservative and regress towards the mean, but anyone that thinks this team is capable of performing beyond its 'mean', even for 4 games over a 60 game stretch has not been watching this team this year.

On the bright side, it's only 4 games.

Edit: Check that thought about them not getting worse. Right now taking Jackson out of the rotation would hurt them, since it gives Peavy 2 more starts if the rotation goes from 6 to 5.