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View Full Version : Sox interested in Colby Rasmus?


illini81887
07-24-2011, 11:18 AM
http://twitter.com/#!/SI_JonHeyman/status/95165007490322433 (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/95165007490322433)

VenturaFan23
07-24-2011, 11:21 AM
Rotoworld reporting today stating St. Louis Dispatch that "talks have accelerated" between the Sox and Cardinals involving Rasmus. It states that Edwin Jackson and Thornton may be the players going the other way.

Chrisaway
07-24-2011, 11:23 AM
Awesome!!!

Soxfest
07-24-2011, 11:32 AM
Yes, Yes and Yes.............. Rasmus for Jackson/Thornton

sullythered
07-24-2011, 11:43 AM
I don't watch a lot of Cardinals baseball, so inform me. Why are people excited about this? I just looked at Rasmus' numbers. Not impressive. He's 24, so it's not like the dude is a prospect, and his numbers look like a 4th outfielder.

mantis1212
07-24-2011, 11:44 AM
A quick look at Rasmus' stats doesn't really tell me much. Can anyone elaborate how this could be a good thing, aside from unloading salary?

guillensdisciple
07-24-2011, 11:48 AM
It's obvious, Greg Walker will make him a better hitter when he gets here.

This guy reminds me of Beckham, except with much much more attitude.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 11:52 AM
:hawk

"Where's he gonna play?!?"

VenturaFan23
07-24-2011, 11:54 AM
It's obvious, Greg Walker will make him a better hitter when he gets here.

This guy reminds me of Beckham, except with much much more attitude.

That's what I was thinking too. He's got a lot of potential but I fear Walker will not help tap it.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 11:57 AM
Seriously though... wouldn't the Sox HAVE to get rid of Rios to make this work? Otherwise, Viciedo just stays put in AAA? I know a lot of people are down on Morel, but I think in a year or two he'll be solid, and he already is defensively. Moving forward, a core of Beckham, Viciedo, Morel and Rasmus sounds pretty good - Ramirez will hopefully also be around for a while. I'm hopeful Dunn will rebound and hopefully Rios and Pierre won't be here forever (Pierre shouldn't w/ his contract expiring soon).

Sockinchisox
07-24-2011, 11:57 AM
This excites me!

balke
07-24-2011, 11:58 AM
Interesting article on Rasmus and the Cards trading him.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/why-the-cardinals-cant-trade-colby-rasmus/

EMachine10
07-24-2011, 12:02 PM
I don't watch a lot of Cardinals baseball, so inform me. Why are people excited about this? I just looked at Rasmus' numbers. Not impressive. He's 24, so it's not like the dude is a prospect, and his numbers look like a 4th outfielder.
An .859 OPS last year (as a 23 year old); 2009 Baseball America #3 prospect overall; Ability to play center field. 24 is not what I would consider too old in my book. Sign me up.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 12:03 PM
An .859 OPS last year (as a 23 year old); 2009 Baseball America #3 prospect overall; Ability to play center field. 24 is not what I would consider too old in my book. Sign me up.

He's 25 in like 3 weeks - not a huge deal, but just pointing it out.

EMachine10
07-24-2011, 12:09 PM
He's 25 in like 3 weeks - not a huge deal, but just pointing it out.
Ok, but he's had close to 1500 PAs in the majors, plus over 1700 in the minors. 25 isn't 32. He has a lot more potential than a 4th outfielder.

BigHurt3515
07-24-2011, 12:11 PM
I have a feeling if we get Rasmus then Quentin will be forsure traded.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 12:12 PM
Ok, but he's had close to 1500 PAs in the majors, plus over 1700 in the minors. 25 isn't 32. He has a lot more potential than a 4th outfielder.

I agree.

PalehosePlanet
07-24-2011, 12:16 PM
A quick look at Rasmus' stats doesn't really tell me much. Can anyone elaborate how this could be a good thing, aside from unloading salary?

It would obviously be a trade to tap into this kids massive potential. His down year, coupled with problems last year w/Larussa, is why The Cards would even consider trading him.

He's an above average CF'er, with above average speed, high OBP, left handed hitter with big power potential.

I think KW envisions him as a prototypical #3 hitter when/if he reaches his potential. He's only 24 so it's still attainable.

But again, this would be a trade for his potential not for current production. Risky? Yes, but I'm all for it.

Domeshot17
07-24-2011, 12:18 PM
Seriously though... wouldn't the Sox HAVE to get rid of Rios to make this work? Otherwise, Viciedo just stays put in AAA? I know a lot of people are down on Morel, but I think in a year or two he'll be solid, and he already is defensively. Moving forward, a core of Beckham, Viciedo, Morel and Rasmus sounds pretty good - Ramirez will hopefully also be around for a while. I'm hopeful Dunn will rebound and hopefully Rios and Pierre won't be here forever (Pierre shouldn't w/ his contract expiring soon).

Problem is none of those guys may ever be a core hitter. Rasmus is solid, I like him a lot, but Morel isn't a guy you build around. Solid D, he projected as a good average low OPS 3b. Not much offensive potential. Kind of a Joe Randa/ Bill Mueller type hitter.

Tragg
07-24-2011, 12:23 PM
But again, this would be a trade for his potential not for current production. Risky? Yes, but I'm all for it.
Agree...which is why you have to make sure that the price is reasonable.

Thornton and 6 months of jackson plus a supplemental for Rasmus. Seems reasonable. They're getting guaranteed production and we're getting some potential.
My guess it that if this goes down, will throw in more.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 12:24 PM
Problem is none of those guys may ever be a core hitter. Rasmus is solid, I like him a lot, but Morel isn't a guy you build around. Solid D, he projected as a good average low OPS 3b. Not much offensive potential. Kind of a Joe Randa/ Bill Mueller type hitter.

I agree, although I'd be disappointed if 1 of either Beckham OR Viciedo don't pan out to be... but it certainly is possible. The good thing is that think the players listed still allow for management to go out and pay for a star to hit in the middle of the order (see: Konerko, Dunn, etc)... hopefully the guys they go out and get/pay, live up to their potential.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 12:27 PM
Agree...which is why you have to make sure that the price is reasonable.

Thornton and 6 months of jackson plus a supplemental for Rasmus. Seems reasonable. They're getting guaranteed production and we're getting some potential.
My guess it that if this goes down, will throw in more.

who will "throw in more"?

SoxSpeed22
07-24-2011, 12:28 PM
We could really use another headcase, at least he can lead off and play good center field. A Viciedo-Rasmus-Rios outfield might be able to do things next year?

WhiteSox5187
07-24-2011, 01:41 PM
I suspect that Quentin would then be traded and Rios would be moved over to right. I don't know what that means for Vicideo, maybe he plays left next year? I like Rasmus and he has got boat loads of potential, the problem is the same problem faced by lots of young Sox hitters with lots of potential, he'd be working with Greg Walker.

soxfan43
07-24-2011, 01:44 PM
I have a feeling if we get Rasmus then Quentin will be forsure traded.

I think that will probably happen Rasmus or not this winter. With Konerko and Dunn locked up for a while and a cheaper alternative with Viciedo ready, I'm guessing Quentin will get moved to save some money and add some young talent to system.

I'd love to get Rasmus for Edwin and Thornton, but I'd also guess the Sox would have to throw in a prospect or two since Jackson is a rental.

A. Cavatica
07-24-2011, 01:45 PM
I'd trade Jackson for Rasmus in a heartbeat if his salary went with him, but adding Thornton? This sounds like yet another case of Kenny overpaying. Jackson and Thornton would be two of the best pitchers available at the deadline and ought to bring back a lot. I hope we'd get another top prospect along with Rasmus.

DSpivack
07-24-2011, 01:47 PM
Problem is none of those guys may ever be a core hitter. Rasmus is solid, I like him a lot, but Morel isn't a guy you build around. Solid D, he projected as a good average low OPS 3b. Not much offensive potential. Kind of a Joe Randa/ Bill Mueller type hitter.

Bill Mueller won a batting title, I'd be ecstatic if Morel turns into a similar hitter. But Morel has shown nothing with the bat thus far. I'd be surprised if he sticks as a starting 3B in the long-term.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 01:47 PM
I think that will probably happen Rasmus or not this winter. With Konerko and Dunn locked up for a while and a cheaper alternative with Viciedo ready, I'm guessing Quentin will get moved to save some money and add some young talent to system.

I'd love to get Rasmus for Edwin and Thornton, but I'd also guess the Sox would have to throw in a prospect or two since Jackson is a rental.

That's what Cards fans keep saying. I think it's crap. A 24 year old who's demanded to be traded, is discontent and has put up non-starter numbers in 2 of his 3 (at least 1 of his 3) years, does not warrant more than Jackson AND Thornton... regardless of his potential. Thornton is getting back to his past-self and that plus Jackson (and his "potential") should be more than enough to land Rasmus. Otherwise, if I were KW, I'd start talking to other teams.

A. Cavatica
07-24-2011, 01:52 PM
Any deal where we trade a starter to StL just has to involve Buehrle, don't you think? Buehrle has to be moved in any rebuilding effort. So does Jackson, but Jackson doesn't have 10/5 rights.

Maybe Jackson is being discussed with Boston and Buehrle with St. Louis, and KW is seeing who's got the most to spend.

DSpivack
07-24-2011, 01:54 PM
Any deal where we trade a starter to StL just has to involve Buehrle, don't you think? Buehrle has to be moved in any rebuilding effort. So does Jackson, but Jackson doesn't have 10/5 rights.

Maybe Jackson is being discussed with Boston and Buehrle with St. Louis, and KW is seeing who's got the most to spend.

Problem with that is Buehrle's $15 million option that gets automatically picked up if traded. Not sure St. Louis would be willing to pick that up.

ChicagoG19
07-24-2011, 02:08 PM
I think Jackson AND Thorton is too much to give up for just Rasmus unless St. Louis throws in a prospect.

Domeshot17
07-24-2011, 02:11 PM
Bill Mueller won a batting title, I'd be ecstatic if Morel turns into a similar hitter. But Morel has shown nothing with the bat thus far. I'd be surprised if he sticks as a starting 3B in the long-term.

I was more referring to Mueller before his time in Boston. 280 hitter, 30 doubles, 8-12 homers, 60-70 RBI. I have some doubts about the legitimacy of Mueller when he got to Boston, especially considering the rampantness of that team's use.

DSpivack
07-24-2011, 02:15 PM
I was more referring to Mueller before his time in Boston. 280 hitter, 30 doubles, 8-12 homers, 60-70 RBI. I have some doubts about the legitimacy of Mueller when he got to Boston, especially considering the rampantness of that team's use.

Even before his playing days in Boston, Mueller consistently hit .290, and Randa .280. I just meant that I'd be more than happy to see Morel put up numbers like that, but I just don't know if he has the bat to stick in the long-term.

thomas35forever
07-24-2011, 02:17 PM
I think Jackson AND Thorton is too much to give up for just Rasmus unless St. Louis throws in a prospect.
Agreed. Just looking at Rasmus' numbers, I don't think I'd want to build around him. Plus, I'd rather keep Thornton.

SI1020
07-24-2011, 02:22 PM
I think Jackson AND Thorton is too much to give up for just Rasmus unless St. Louis throws in a prospect. I can't understand getting excited over such a trade, and I'm not a big fan of Jackson.

A. Cavatica
07-24-2011, 02:27 PM
Turns out the original article never said Jackson and Thornton, it said Jackson or Thornton could be dangled. And the Cardinals would want other minor league or cost-controlled talent.

So it's not quite as bad as it sounded, but KW may yet find a way to overpay.

Soxfest
07-24-2011, 02:41 PM
You wonder why STL wants to deal Rasmus, Jay is 2-2 with 2 walks so far today with Holliday and Berkman he is the odd man out for much needed pitching.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Any deal where we trade a starter to StL just has to involve Buehrle, don't you think? Buehrle has to be moved in any rebuilding effort. So does Jackson, but Jackson doesn't have 10/5 rights.

Maybe Jackson is being discussed with Boston and Buehrle with St. Louis, and KW is seeing who's got the most to spend.

I'm not sure this would be a "rebuilding effort" though. There an numerous possibilities of the next (inevitable) move the Sox would make, but one very possible move would be (after EJax + Thornton for Rasmus), they deal Quentin for (at minimum) a RP equal to Thornton (+ a prospect, etc?). When they lose Pierre next year, Viciedo would be called up, and you'd have an OF of Rasmus, Viciedo, Rios, and ?. You lose Jackson, but free up his salary and hope Humber is here to stay. Will Rasmus and Viciedo = Quentin + Pierre? I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it (at least initially), but it's not completely unrealistic to think they could come close, would be more healthy/reliable, cost less, under control for a number of years, and have the potential to produce more. That doesn't even consider what they could do w/ the extra cash they get once Jackson's gone (they'll get that regardless at season's end, but they wouldn't be getting Rasmus). They need to pull the trigger and deal Jackson this week, no matter what.

kevingrt
07-24-2011, 02:54 PM
Turns out the original article never said Jackson and Thornton, it said Jackson or Thornton could be dangled. And the Cardinals would want other minor league or cost-controlled talent.

So it's not quite as bad as it sounded, but KW may yet find a way to overpay.

Everyone here loves to read the original article.

Gavin
07-24-2011, 03:12 PM
If somehow KW moved Jackson and Rios before August 1st and didn't eat a ton of the money (mostly Rios'), that'd be a damn good July for him.

cards press box
07-24-2011, 03:13 PM
I have a feeling if we get Rasmus then Quentin will be forsure traded.

Not necessarily. The Sox might deal Rios either now or in the offseason. Don't forget, KW found a way to deal Linebrink. And, while Rios has struggled this year, he was one of the best CF's in the AL last year. If Rios can play well the next two months (and his stolen base today was certainly helpful in the Sox 4-2 win over Cleveland), then KW will have more options.

I think Jackson AND Thorton is too much to give up for just Rasmus unless St. Louis throws in a prospect.

The article floats the names of Jackson and Thornton but it doesn't mean that both are involved. The Cards need starting pitching so Jackson is more likely to go. If the Sox did deal Jackson and Thornton, that would be a lot. Maybe the Sox could throw in Teahen plus cash considerations and the Cards could throw in David Freese?

Brian26
07-24-2011, 03:16 PM
A deal centered around Rasmus for Edwin would be a good deal for the Sox for many reasons, and it's not necessarily for the future.

A. Cavatica
07-24-2011, 03:17 PM
I'm not sure this would be a "rebuilding effort" though. There an numerous possibilities of the next (inevitable) move the Sox would make, but one very possible move would be (after EJax + Thornton for Rasmus), they deal Quentin for (at minimum) a RP equal to Thornton (+ a prospect, etc?). When they lose Pierre next year, Viciedo would be called up, and you'd have an OF of Rasmus, Viciedo, Rios, and ?. You lose Jackson, but free up his salary and hope Humber is here to stay. Will Rasmus and Viciedo = Quentin + Pierre? I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it (at least initially), but it's not completely unrealistic to think they could come close, would be more healthy/reliable, cost less, under control for a number of years, and have the potential to produce more. That doesn't even consider what they could do w/ the extra cash they get once Jackson's gone (they'll get that regardless at season's end, but they wouldn't be getting Rasmus). They need to pull the trigger and deal Jackson this week, no matter what.

They certainly do need to deal Jackson this week.

But I disagree with some of your analysis:

There are very few RPs equal to Thornton. It is unlikely they will be able to trade for one.

An OF of Viciedo, Rasmus, Rios is inferior to an outfield of Pierre, Rios, Quentin. Quentin is the best player in that group; you can plug in a replacement-level player (or even Viciedo) for Pierre and improve the current outfield.

Every day that goes by without them purging the coaching staff is a missed opportunity to start rebuilding.

soxfanreggie
07-24-2011, 03:19 PM
I have a feeling if we get Rasmus then Quentin will be forsure traded.

I agree probably with a thought of "selling high" on Quentin and that we won't want to work with him on a long-term deal, perhaps thinking it would be too expensive.

russ99
07-24-2011, 03:20 PM
Not necessarily. The Sox might deal Rios either now or in the offseason. Don't forget, KW found a way to deal Linebrink. And, while Rios has struggled this year, he was one of the best CF's in the AL last year. If Rios can play well the next two months (and his stolen base today was certainly helpful in the Sox 4-2 win over Cleveland), then KW will have more options.

The article floats the names of Jackson and Thornton but it doesn't mean that both are involved. The Cards need starting pitching so Jackson is more likely to go. If the Sox did deal Jackson and Thornton, that would be a lot. Maybe the Sox could throw in Teahen plus cash considerations and the Cards could throw in David Freese?

Rios and Teahen aren't going anywhere unless the Sox eat a lot of salary. Teahen is more likely, since he only has one year left on his deal. but Rios has 3 more years.

Considering that the Sox are overextended financially and will lose money this year unless these guys can somehow get to the playoffs, I very much doubt Jerry sends cash in a deal for either of those players any time soon.

PaleHoser
07-24-2011, 03:21 PM
Can he lead off?

Lip Man 1
07-24-2011, 03:22 PM
Don't think so, but he might be a good option in the #2 spot and if I remember correctly, he's a pretty good defensive outfielder.

Lip

russ99
07-24-2011, 03:26 PM
They certainly do need to deal Jackson this week.

But I disagree with some of your analysis:

There are very few RPs equal to Thornton. It is unlikely they will be able to trade for one.

An OF of Viciedo, Rasmus, Rios is inferior to an outfield of Pierre, Rios, Quentin. Quentin is the best player in that group; you can plug in a replacement-level player (or even Viciedo) for Pierre and improve the current outfield.

Every day that goes by without them purging the coaching staff is a missed opportunity to start rebuilding.

Thornton is in the same boat as Quentin - Thornton is due $5.5M, Quentin due a big raise on top of this year's $5.05M in his last year before FA. That's $11M+ they can cut off the payroll next year and bring in some younger talent to the current mix. Besides, Sale looked like he can handle the setup role, at least today.

Quentin is super-streaky and injury prone, so if he's not in the Sox future plans, this is the best time to deal him.

You can't consider the Sox a rebuilding team in 2012 if they have most of if not all of A.J., Konerko, Beckham, Ramirez, Dunn and Rios; not to mention Peavy, Humber, Danks, Floyd, Crain, Sale and Santos - and hopefully Buehrle.

A. Cavatica
07-24-2011, 03:28 PM
Not necessarily. The Sox might deal Rios either now or in the offseason. Don't forget, KW found a way to deal Linebrink. And, while Rios has struggled this year, he was one of the best CF's in the AL last year. If Rios can play well the next two months (and his stolen base today was certainly helpful in the Sox 4-2 win over Cleveland), then KW will have more options.


The Red Sox are looking for a right-handed hitting OF to replace J. D. Drew, and might look at Rios as a turnaround candidate, if the Sox ate some of his salary. He probably will perform better for his next team than he does for us, because our clubhouse is full of head cases and under-performers, and Rios can't escape the pressure.

Don't look now but Linebrink is having a pretty good year for Atlanta (3-1, 2.97, 1 save).

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 03:28 PM
There are very few RPs equal to Thornton. It is unlikely they will be able to trade for one.

This is a valid point. I guess I was speaking more in regards to what his talent should bring, and then also that that trade doesn't have to be made now - I would think Quentin should bring back someone of Thornton's stature in the off-season as well. Either way, the salary freed from getting rid of Jackson would also let them sign one if they wanted and use TCQ for upgrading somewhere else.

An OF of Viciedo, Rasmus, Rios is inferior to an outfield of Pierre, Rios, Quentin. Quentin is the best player in that group; you can plug in a replacement-level player (or even Viciedo) for Pierre and improve the current outfield.

I agree with this, but only if you're speaking about right now, AND that's partly because they're currently healthy. As far as what's best for the long-term (and doesn't handicap the team now), I think the Viciedo, Rasmus, Rios (although if they could get rid of him, I'd be ecstatic), makes sense for the reasons we've been talking about. I'm not all for dealing TCQ, but I know that going into next season, it doesn't seem the most practical to have Rasmus, Rios, Viciedo, AND Quentin, especially considering Quentin could bring back a decent haul right now or in the off-season, and that he won't be continuing to play at his salary for many more seasons (whereas, I believe, Rasmus and Viciedo will).

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 03:31 PM
Thornton is in the same boat as Quentin - Thornton is due $5.5M, Quentin due a big raise on top of this year's $5.05M in his last year before FA. That's $11M+ they can cut off the payroll next year and bring in some younger talent to the current mix. Besides, Sale looked like he can handle the setup role, at least today.

Quentin is super-streaky and injury prone, so if he's not in the Sox future plans, this is the best time to deal him.

You can't consider the Sox a rebuilding team in 2012 if they have most of if not all of A.J., Konerko, Beckham, Ramirez, Dunn and Rios; not to mention Peavy, Humber, Danks, Floyd, Crain, Sale and Santos - and hopefully Buehrle.

Spot-on. I like Quentin too. I wish he'd stay in a Sox uniform, but I think it makes the most sense to be looking to deal him at this point.

dickallen15
07-24-2011, 03:39 PM
I believe the Rasmus rumor is false.

voodoochile
07-24-2011, 03:43 PM
Well if this were to happen it might be with eyes on next year. TCQ goes back to LF, Rios goes to RF and Rasmus takes over CF, but then he either leads off or the Sox put TCM at leadoff which I'm not big on. I suppose Rasmus could hit behind TCM and in front of PK for a RLRLR start to the batting order.

voodoochile
07-24-2011, 03:44 PM
Spot-on. I like Quentin too. I wish he'd stay in a Sox uniform, but I think it makes the most sense to be looking to deal him at this point.

Trading a guy with an .878 OPS and 20 HR in late July you better get something big back in return. Streaky or not, TCQ is not an issue...

A. Cavatica
07-24-2011, 03:52 PM
My thinking is that the turnaround has to start with a purge of the coaching staff. Until that happens, nothing else is going to work.

Assuming Ozzie is gone next year, then the biggest obstacle to contending will be too many bad players with huge contracts. Dunn and Rios are young enough to turn it around; so is Peavy (whose biggest issue is just health). You have to give them a coaching staff that will help them succeed, and hope that they rebound enough to become tradeable. Jackson, at least, can be unloaded right now.

There are also a lot of moderately expensive players that need to be traded right now for whatever you can get. I'm talking Pierzynski, Teahen, Ohman, Pena, Vizquel, Castro. None of these guys will be part of the next contending Sox team.

Among the better players, Quentin, Thornton, Floyd, Danks, and Ramirez are all going to be making $5M or more in 2012. That's enough to worry about the cost, but not so much as to deter trades. Thornton (because he's 34) is the only one I'd actively be shopping, but I'd be listening to any deal for one of these guys that brought back top prospects.

DickAllen72
07-24-2011, 03:56 PM
I believe the Rasmus rumor is false.
Me too.

DSpivack
07-24-2011, 04:07 PM
Well if this were to happen it might be with eyes on next year. TCQ goes back to LF, Rios goes to RF and Rasmus takes over CF, but then he either leads off or the Sox put TCM at leadoff which I'm not big on. I suppose Rasmus could hit behind TCM and in front of PK for a RLRLR start to the batting order.

...And Viciedo remains in the minors, or is traded?

Brian26
07-24-2011, 04:10 PM
I believe the Rasmus rumor is false.

The rumor comes from a St. Louis paper. The rumor itself is true.

dickallen15
07-24-2011, 04:15 PM
The rumor comes from a St. Louis paper. The rumor itself is true.

Not really. Ask yourself what the rumor is. When you answer that, I say it is false. Its a rumor, but the facts won't support it. Colby Rasmus isn't coming to the White Sox for Edwin Jackson and/or Matt Thornton.

SoxNation05
07-24-2011, 04:33 PM
Cards are now interested in Jeremy Guthrie. Take it for what it's worth.

Brian26
07-24-2011, 04:39 PM
Not really. Ask yourself what the rumor is. When you answer that, I say it is false. Its a rumor, but the facts won't support it. Colby Rasmus isn't coming to the White Sox for Edwin Jackson and/or Matt Thornton.

We're just arguiing semantics. Whether or not the deal happens, the rumor is true. The reality of the situation may be different; the deal may not happen. The rumor itself is not something fabricated though, as there seems to be some merit behind it dating back quite awhile.

Gavin
07-24-2011, 04:47 PM
We're just arguiing semantics. Whether or not the deal happens, the rumor is true. The reality of the situation may be different; the deal may not happen. The rumor itself is not something fabricated though, as there seems to be some merit behind it dating back quite awhile.

Exactly; a rumor is a rumor. Its weight varies on the legitimacy of the source, and this one has a pretty solid source.

JermaineDye05
07-24-2011, 05:07 PM
I'd take Rasmus in a heartbeat.

Major upgrade over Pierre for next season.

arKnaD7
07-24-2011, 05:29 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/keithlaw/status/95257347886292992

JermaineDye05
07-24-2011, 05:32 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/keithlaw/status/95257347886292992 (http://twitter.com/#%21/keithlaw/status/95257347886292992)

Like I said, in a heartbeat.

Taliesinrk
07-24-2011, 06:25 PM
is anyone arguing the Sox NOT do the trade is it's only for either 1 of Jackson OR Thornton? I thought the main problem people had was if it were for both...

samurai_sox
07-24-2011, 06:26 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/keithlaw/status/95257347886292992

P3ALwKeSEYs

JermaineDye05
07-24-2011, 06:28 PM
is anyone arguing the Sox NOT do the trade is it's only for either 1 of Jackson OR Thornton? I thought the main problem people had was if it were for both...

I'd still do the trade if it was for both.

Jackson is gone after the year anyways. So it would basically wind up being Thornton for Rasmus.

samurai_sox
07-24-2011, 06:40 PM
I want this deal to happen,

the Sox might as well get some use out of Jackson, and this trade would help me feel better about giving up Hudson a year ago.

Not that it matters anymore, but I would like to look back at it as we gave up Hudson for Jackson who we used to get Rasmus.

If the Sox do get Rasmus, I really hope all he needs is a change of scenery to get his production up and running.

SoxSpeed22
07-24-2011, 06:44 PM
Since everybody seems set on trading Jackson, this might be the best we can get out of him. We'll see though.

KRS1
07-24-2011, 06:48 PM
the Sox might as well get some use out of Jackson, and this trade would help me feel better about giving up Hudson a year ago.


I'd be entirely fine with the Hudson trade if we turn it into Rasmus, and I was pretty irate about that trade from the get-go.

TheOldRoman
07-24-2011, 06:52 PM
I'd still do the trade if it was for both.

Jackson is gone after the year anyways. So it would basically wind up being Thornton for Rasmus.Don't forget the sandwich pick the Sox will get for offering Jackson arbitration. Also, while Rasmus is extremely talented, this is about the worst place a struggling hitter can come to straighten himself out. We don't have to look to far back to a time when the Sox picked up a talented, athletic outfielder coming off one bad season. People would be saying Rasums was untalented and didn't care about baseball in no time!

JermaineDye05
07-24-2011, 07:01 PM
Don't forget the sandwich pick the Sox will get for offering Jackson arbitration. Also, while Rasmus is extremely talented, this is about the worst place a struggling hitter can come to straighten himself out. We don't have to look to far back to a time when the Sox picked up a talented, athletic outfielder coming off one bad season. People would be saying Rasums was untalented and didn't care about baseball in no time!

Yeah, but Rasmus has not been paid a ton of money yet.

He's arbitration eligible next year, currently being paid under half a million.

I also forgot about the pick the Sox could get. Though I'm not sure if Jackson would accept arbitration or not. He does have Boras as an agent, however he may decide that it's in his best interest to accept the arbitration considering the money he'd get. If there's a possibility that Jackson would accept the arbitration, then I don't know if the Sox would want to risk offering it.

DirtySox
07-24-2011, 07:11 PM
The trade would absolutely not be for just Edwin or just Thornton. That is not even close to fair value. Both, or a combination of one and another piece or two. Reed's name is being thrown around plenty.

Moses_Scurry
07-24-2011, 07:16 PM
For 2011:

Rasmus displaces Rios = :bandance::D::smile:

Rasmus displaces Pierre = :smile:

Rasmus displaces Quentin = :(::angry::whiner:

JermaineDye05
07-24-2011, 07:17 PM
For 2011:

Rasmus displaces Rios = :bandance::D::smile:

Rasmus displaces Pierre = :smile:

Rasmus displaces Quentin = :(::angry::whiner:

It's highly likely that Quentin isn't here next year. I'm guessing he goes in a separate deal.

Cardinals have no use for him.

PalehosePlanet
07-24-2011, 07:29 PM
The trade would absolutely not be for just Edwin or just Thornton. That is not even close to fair value. Both, or a combination of one and another piece or two. Reed's name is being thrown around plenty.

Where did you read/hear that Reed would be involved?

I'd be hesitant to include him in the trade, especially with the state of our minor league pitching depth.

DirtySox
07-24-2011, 07:33 PM
Where did you read/hear that Reed would be involved?

I'd be hesitant to include him in the trade, especially with the state of our minor league pitching depth.

Just what I've seen on a few other sites that I trust. It's still a rumor obviously, but if St. Louis is indeed seeking a prospect piece back, the list of candidates is extremely short. Dayan & Reed are pretty much the only prospects worth anything in our trash hole system.

dickallen15
07-24-2011, 07:35 PM
Exactly; a rumor is a rumor. Its weight varies on the legitimacy of the source, and this one has a pretty solid source.

I can tell you this thread is about something that will not happen. This "solid source" is very innaccurate.

dickallen15
07-24-2011, 07:38 PM
Don't forget the sandwich pick the Sox will get for offering Jackson arbitration. Also, while Rasmus is extremely talented, this is about the worst place a struggling hitter can come to straighten himself out.

Yes, Carlos Quentin has done nothing with the White Sox. Reading some stories, one reason LaRussa doesn't like him is because he doesn't work with their hitting coach.

Moses_Scurry
07-24-2011, 07:43 PM
It's highly likely that Quentin isn't here next year. I'm guessing he goes in a separate deal.

Cardinals have no use for him.

I doubt any of those guys gets traded for Rasmus, but obviously one of them is going to be replaced by Rasmus if this hypothetical trade goes down. It probably won't be Pierre because of his cemented place as the leadoff hitter. The most logical man out is Rios because he has been beyond awful and also plays Rasmus's position. However, I can't see KW being able to shed is salary, and I don't know if they'll bench him. I could easily see them trading Quentin to make room for Rasmus, and for this season, I would see that as a downgrade. Unless they are going to plug a different hole with the Quentin trade, I don't want to see that happen. They still are very much alive for the division. I do like that they are trying to make a trade that helps them both in 2011 and beyond rather than a washed up 1/2 season rental like Ken Griffey Jr or Manny Ramirez.

The Immigrant
07-24-2011, 08:02 PM
Rios and Teahen aren't going anywhere unless the Sox eat a lot of salary. Teahen is more likely, since he only has one year left on his deal. but Rios has 3 more years.

Considering that the Sox are overextended financially and will lose money this year unless these guys can somehow get to the playoffs, I very much doubt Jerry sends cash in a deal for either of those players any time soon.

The White Sox don't lose money and haven't in a very, very long time.

PeteWard
07-24-2011, 08:23 PM
It would obviously be a trade to tap into this kids massive potential. His down year, coupled with problems last year w/Larussa, is why The Cards would even consider trading him.

He's an above average CF'er, with above average speed, high OBP, left handed hitter with big power potential.

I think KW envisions him as a prototypical #3 hitter when/if he reaches his potential. He's only 24 so it's still attainable.

But again, this would be a trade for his potential not for current production. Risky? Yes, but I'm all for it.

Above average CF? What is that based on? He looks about average to me.

seventyseven
07-24-2011, 08:29 PM
I think Jackson AND Thorton is too much to give up for just Rasmus unless St. Louis throws in a prospect.

The Cardinals' minor league system is awful right now, and has been for a while. I only make this deal if it involves MLB roster Cardinal players.

I wonder if the Cardinals would take back Pierre?

DSpivack
07-24-2011, 08:43 PM
I doubt any of those guys gets traded for Rasmus, but obviously one of them is going to be replaced by Rasmus if this hypothetical trade goes down. It probably won't be Pierre because of his cemented place as the leadoff hitter. The most logical man out is Rios because he has been beyond awful and also plays Rasmus's position. However, I can't see KW being able to shed is salary, and I don't know if they'll bench him. I could easily see them trading Quentin to make room for Rasmus, and for this season, I would see that as a downgrade. Unless they are going to plug a different hole with the Quentin trade, I don't want to see that happen. They still are very much alive for the division. I do like that they are trying to make a trade that helps them both in 2011 and beyond rather than a washed up 1/2 season rental like Ken Griffey Jr or Manny Ramirez.

Rios is going nowhere.

The Cardinals' minor league system is awful right now, and has been for a while. I only make this deal if it involves MLB roster Cardinal players.

I wonder if the Cardinals would take back Pierre?

They have Holliday, Berkman, and Jay. I doubt they'd want another OF.

For 2011:

Rasmus displaces Rios = :bandance::D::smile:

Rasmus displaces Pierre = :smile:

Rasmus displaces Quentin = :(::angry::whiner:

Rios is going nowhere.

Foulke You
07-24-2011, 09:07 PM
Rios is going nowhere.
Rios may not be going anywhere but his role could be significantly reduced if KW lands Rasmus. The Sox are 4.5 games back in a very winnable AL Central and might finally be waving the white flag on Rios starting in CF every day while they are still in the race.

blandman
07-24-2011, 09:16 PM
The White Sox don't lose money and haven't in a very, very long time.

Source?

I can't imagine any scenario where if we're not already losing money this year, we most certainly will be at the end of the year short of a turnaround by Dunn, Rios, et al.

Zisk77
07-24-2011, 09:22 PM
If this trade is made I could see 2 possible scenarios:

1. Quentin is traded somewhere.

2. Pierre sits against some lefties, Rios is given a few days off hoping to light a fire under him. TCQ is given an ocassional day off. Basicaly rotate the of's and always have a decent (in theory) ph option on the bench.

Next year Pierre walks. KW tries to deal Rios, but most likely has to deal TCQ to make room for Viciedo.

JermaineDye05
07-24-2011, 09:44 PM
I doubt any of those guys gets traded for Rasmus, but obviously one of them is going to be replaced by Rasmus if this hypothetical trade goes down. It probably won't be Pierre because of his cemented place as the leadoff hitter. The most logical man out is Rios because he has been beyond awful and also plays Rasmus's position. However, I can't see KW being able to shed is salary, and I don't know if they'll bench him. I could easily see them trading Quentin to make room for Rasmus, and for this season, I would see that as a downgrade. Unless they are going to plug a different hole with the Quentin trade, I don't want to see that happen. They still are very much alive for the division. I do like that they are trying to make a trade that helps them both in 2011 and beyond rather than a washed up 1/2 season rental like Ken Griffey Jr or Manny Ramirez.

Pierre is gone after this season. He hasn't cemented anything. It's not like he's an elite lead off hitter.

DirtySox
07-24-2011, 10:02 PM
The Cardinals' minor league system is awful right now, and has been for a while. I only make this deal if it involves MLB roster Cardinal players.

I wonder if the Cardinals would take back Pierre?

Not so much. Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are blue chip prospects. Zack Cox isn't bad either. Their system is considerably better than the Sox.

DSpivack
07-24-2011, 10:23 PM
Rios may not be going anywhere but his role could be significantly reduced if KW lands Rasmus. The Sox are 4.5 games back in a very winnable AL Central and might finally be waving the white flag on Rios starting in CF every day while they are still in the race.

I have no problem with that, I just don't see any scenario where another team takes back Alex Rios in a trade. His trade value right now might be lower than any other player in baseball (well, him and Dunn, I guess).

Not so much. Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez are blue chip prospects. Zack Cox isn't bad either. Their system is considerably better than the Sox.

Whose isn't?

Tragg
07-24-2011, 10:35 PM
The trade would absolutely not be for just Edwin or just Thornton. That is not even close to fair value. Both, or a combination of one and another piece or two. Reed's name is being thrown around plenty.

Reed - our top pitching prospect. Hope not.

If one listens to the cardinal fans, they think that they should get a return as if RAsmus were a top 10 mlb prospect. That, of course, is absurd. At this point, he's a failed prospect.

Thornton and Jackson (which also yields a supplemental) together is more than fair for Rasmus.

PaleHoser
07-24-2011, 11:10 PM
one reason LaRussa doesn't like him is because he doesn't work with their hitting coach.

I wouldn't listen to Mark McGwire either.

Brian26
07-24-2011, 11:18 PM
I wouldn't listen to Mark McGwire either.

The Rasmus stuff started before MacGwire even got there. He's another guy, like Swisher, that views his dad as his primary hitting coach. That's where much of the angst w/ LaRussa began.

JermaineDye05
07-24-2011, 11:23 PM
The Rasmus stuff started before MacGwire even got there. He's another guy, like Swisher, that views his dad as his primary hitting coach. That's where much of the angst w/ LaRussa began.

Well, on the plus side, he won't listen to Walker.

cards press box
07-25-2011, 12:59 AM
I also forgot about the pick the Sox could get. Though I'm not sure if Jackson would accept arbitration or not. He does have Boras as an agent, however he may decide that it's in his best interest to accept the arbitration considering the money he'd get. If there's a possibility that Jackson would accept the arbitration, then I don't know if the Sox would want to risk offering it.

Jackson is 27, has great stuff and will certainly be looking for a multi-year deal. I cannot imagine him accepting arbitration. And even if he did, the Sox could still deal him.

So, if the Sox keep Jackson for the remainder of 2011, I cannot imagine them not offering arbitration to Jackson. That would be tantamount to giving a high draft pick away for nothing.

Reed - our top pitching prospect. Hope not.

+1

The Red Sox are looking for a right-handed hitting OF to replace J. D. Drew, and might look at Rios as a turnaround candidate, if the Sox ate some of his salary. He probably will perform better for his next team than he does for us, because our clubhouse is full of head cases and under-performers, and Rios can't escape the pressure.

That's interesting. Another thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129333) here suggests that Boston and the Sox are talking trade. Could it be for Rios? And, if so, what could the Sox get back?

Don't look now but Linebrink is having a pretty good year for Atlanta (3-1, 2.97, 1 save).

Wow, can't say that I saw that coming. Give Freddie Gonzalez and/or Roger McDowell credit for getting more out of Linebrink than most thought possible.

hawkjt
07-25-2011, 01:15 AM
Linebrink's struggles never made any sense. He threw very hard for the Sox,but straight,still his stuff was not that bad,but his numbers were. I think it could be the NL factor. He is an NL guy.

dickallen15
07-25-2011, 05:43 AM
Linebrink's struggles never made any sense. He threw very hard for the Sox,but straight,still his stuff was not that bad,but his numbers were. I think it could be the NL factor. He is an NL guy.
If its a hitter who struggles its Greg Walker's fault. If a pitcher struggles with the Sox and does well elsewhere it has nothing to do with Don Cooper. I've never understood that. Not that I'm blaming Cooper. I think most put way too big of burden on Walker. He never gets praised when guys do well.

Bob Roarman
07-25-2011, 06:00 AM
The funny thing about that is that pitching coaches have SO much more to do with actually helping pitchers and making an impact one way or another than any hitting coach at the MLB level.

JermaineDye05
07-25-2011, 06:03 AM
If its a hitter who struggles its Greg Walker's fault. If a pitcher struggles with the Sox and does well elsewhere it has nothing to do with Don Cooper. I've never understood that. Not that I'm blaming Cooper. I think most put way too big of burden on Walker. He never gets praised when guys do well.

That's because not too many guys do well under him.

It's been the same anemic offense for far too long.

johnnyg83
07-25-2011, 06:49 AM
If its a hitter who struggles its Greg Walker's fault. If a pitcher struggles with the Sox and does well elsewhere it has nothing to do with Don Cooper. I've never understood that. Not that I'm blaming Cooper. I think most put way too big of burden on Walker. He never gets praised when guys do well.

Not trying to be argumentative, but who are these pitchers who've performed poorly for the Sox and then succeeded when they've left and same for who are the hitters that have succeeded under Walker?

JermaineDye05
07-25-2011, 08:39 AM
Tweeted Buster Olney in regards to the Rasmus rumors:

@eric_bachelder (http://twitter.com/#%21/eric_bachelder) Eric Bachelder
@Buster_ESPN (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN) any validity to the Rasmus #whitesox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23whitesox) rumors?

3 hours ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/eric_bachelder/status/95442139323957248) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

Here's his response:

http://a2.twimg.com/profile_images/518275190/olney_buster_m_normal.jpg (http://twitter.com/#%21/Buster_ESPN) @Buster_ESPN (http://twitter.com/#%21/Buster_ESPN) Buster Olney


@eric_bachelder (http://twitter.com/eric_bachelder) Yes, absolutely.

1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/Buster_ESPN/status/95468640828276736) via webhttp://twitter.com/#!/Buster_ESPN/statuses/95468640828276736 (http://twitter.com/#%21/Buster_ESPN/statuses/95468640828276736)

balke
07-25-2011, 09:00 AM
Not trying to be argumentative, but who are these pitchers who've performed poorly for the Sox and then succeeded when they've left and same for who are the hitters that have succeeded under Walker?

Its up to the fans to try and guess. Walker fixed Konerko factualized by konerkos quotes.

Coop gets credit by stats. Normally guys who don't always work well with Coop are relievers or guys with no stuff. If a pitcher has talent - he brings it out.

Please tell me we aren't lamenting Linebrink. He was injured or throwing straight fastballs his entire tenure. Blame Coop if you want - but you'd think a guy with his history of success could continue it without a coach's help.

Truth is we don't know how good these guys are. I personally think Coop is one of the top 3 pitching coaches in baseball if not #1.

kevingrt
07-25-2011, 09:20 AM
That's interesting. Another thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129333) here suggests that Boston and the Sox are talking trade. Could it be for Rios? And, if so, what could the Sox get back?

Wouldn't you be fine with just getting Rios' salary off are books for the next few years?

And this Rasmus stuff seems to be getting serious. Trade deadline is always entertaining around here even if the GM has been terrible the past few years.

doublem23
07-25-2011, 09:42 AM
Wouldn't you be fine with just getting Rios' salary off are books for the next few years?

Yes, I don't know what in the world the Red Sox would want with Alex Rios, but if KW can get his ass and salary out of here, that would be a win-win. I don't care if that means De Aza is in CF the rest of this season and that tanks us, I am sick of watching Rios dog it, sick of watching him squat in the batter's box and then miss meatballs because he can't get his hands around fast enough, and sick of thinking how much money he is owed the next three years.

Since nobody in the Central is willing to break this race wide open, I feel that the Sox should act like contenders this trade deadline... I doubt they can take on any more payroll but I don't think they should be dealing useful pieces like Buehrle, Jackson, Quentin, etc. for scraps, but if KW could find a way to get rid of Rios, I'd drive him to the airport personally.

DSpivack
07-25-2011, 09:52 AM
Yes, I don't know what in the world the Red Sox would want with Alex Rios, but if KW can get his ass and salary out of here, that would be a win-win. I don't care if that means De Aza is in CF the rest of this season and that tanks us, I am sick of watching Rios dog it, sick of watching him squat in the batter's box and then miss meatballs because he can't get his hands around fast enough, and sick of thinking how much money he is owed the next three years.

Since nobody in the Central is willing to break this race wide open, I feel that the Sox should act like contenders this trade deadline... I doubt they can take on any more payroll but I don't think they should be dealing useful pieces like Buehrle, Jackson, Quentin, etc. for scraps, but if KW could find a way to get rid of Rios, I'd drive him to the airport personally.

I think anyone who thinks we can get rid of Rios is delusional.

No one wants to trade for the currently worst player in baseball who also is on the hook for 3 more years and $38.5 million.

doublem23
07-25-2011, 10:12 AM
I think anyone who thinks we can get rid of Rios is delusional.

I agree, but hey, it's the trade deadline, it's fun to dream, right? Back in 2009, I thought it was delusional thinking when people said we were looking to trade for Jake Peavy (again), so what's what?

kevingrt
07-25-2011, 10:16 AM
I think anyone who thinks we can get rid of Rios is delusional.

No one wants to trade for the currently worst player in baseball who also is on the hook for 3 more years and $38.5 million.

Um Adam Dunn has a -1.7 WAR compared to Rios' -1.0 WAR. So he is not the worst! :mad:

But yeah Rios is not going anywhere. Unfortunately.

DSpivack
07-25-2011, 10:23 AM
Um Adam Dunn has a -1.7 WAR compared to Rios' -1.0 WAR. So he is not the worst! :mad:

But yeah Rios is not going anywhere. Unfortunately.

I'm guessing that's because Rios isn't a DH. In 30 more PAs, he has 3 fewer HRs, 13 fewer RBIs, and his OBP and OPS are about 30 points lower.

I guess arguing which of the two is worse is somewhat pointless and rather depressing. They both stink and no one wants them.

DirtySox
07-25-2011, 10:36 AM
I'm guessing that's because Rios isn't a DH.

Correct.

Zisk77
07-25-2011, 10:37 AM
I'm guessing that's because Rios isn't a DH. In 30 more PAs, he has 3 fewer HRs, 13 fewer RBIs, and his OBP and OPS are about 30 points lower.

I guess arguing which of the two is worse is somewhat pointless and rather depressing. They both stink and no one wants them.

Maybe Dale Tallon will take them?

Moses_Scurry
07-25-2011, 10:42 AM
I don't think they will be able to trade Rios either. If they get Rasmus, they had better bench Rios's ass instead of trading Quentin. Rios can play next year when Pierre is gone. My stance is simply that I support a trade that gets Rasmus here in 2012 and beyond. I only support the move for 2011 if Rios is benched or miraculously traded. I do not want Quentin shipped out at the deadline in order to make room for Rasmus.

kaufsox
07-25-2011, 10:58 AM
Rasmus is way too young for a KW trade deadline pick up. Seeing how he's interested in Rasmus now, I'm sure he'll be on the team in 10 years or so.

SI1020
07-25-2011, 11:24 AM
Maybe Dale Tallon will take them? I'll take Tallon over Bowman any day.

sullythered
07-25-2011, 11:36 AM
I'll take Tallon over Bowman any day.

I love Dale, but he left us in salary cap hell.

KMcMahon817
07-25-2011, 11:42 AM
I don't think they will be able to trade Rios either. If they get Rasmus, they had better bench Rios's ass instead of trading Quentin. Rios can play next year when Pierre is gone.

This. Let Rios ride pine for the rest of the year if the SOX acquire Rasmus. He can have a shot at getting his job back next season.

I also agree that the SOX shouldn't trade Quentin in order to make room for Rasmus/keep Rios in the lineup. However, Quentin's value is about at its peak and it makes a lot of sense to trade him now if he is not in the SOX plans for next season. I would not be actively shopping him, but if someone wants to overpay...by all means.

dickallen15
07-25-2011, 01:06 PM
I love Dale, but he left us in salary cap hell.
And with a Cup. I'd rather have salary cap problems and a Cup, than no cup but money to burn.

PatK
07-25-2011, 01:29 PM
No thanks

TheOldRoman
07-25-2011, 01:35 PM
Yes, Carlos Quentin has done nothing with the White Sox. Reading some stories, one reason LaRussa doesn't like him is because he doesn't work with their hitting coach.Carlos was "straightened out" to the extent that he was finally healthy. He had a pretty good rookie year and was injured in the time he played his second season.

WhiteSox5187
07-25-2011, 02:45 PM
I don't think they will be able to trade Rios either. If they get Rasmus, they had better bench Rios's ass instead of trading Quentin. Rios can play next year when Pierre is gone. My stance is simply that I support a trade that gets Rasmus here in 2012 and beyond. I only support the move for 2011 if Rios is benched or miraculously traded. I do not want Quentin shipped out at the deadline in order to make room for Rasmus.

Even if we get Rasmus, I think Quentin being traded would be to make room for Vicideo.

DirtySox
07-25-2011, 02:49 PM
Even if we get Rasmus, I think Quentin being traded would be to make room for Vicideo.

Without question.

Goldstein noted that the Sox are shopping Quentin currently, and the price is expensive. Carlos has the second highest wOBA amongst potentially available hitters right now at .382. Beltran is number one at .394.

Bob Roarman
07-25-2011, 02:50 PM
I love Dale, but he left us in salary cap hell.
You can thank Bowman for that. And McDonough. Soooo many people don't know what really happened. Josh Mora barely hit the tip of the iceberg and was let go because of it.

hi im skot
07-25-2011, 02:53 PM
Waiter, there's hockey in my baseball soup.

Hitmen77
07-25-2011, 03:07 PM
Waiter, there's hockey in my baseball soup.

No kidding!

Chez
07-25-2011, 03:09 PM
Waiter, there's hockey in my baseball soup.
:thumbsup:

BleacherBandit
07-25-2011, 04:10 PM
If it's an interest to anyone, I had a dream last night that Kenny traded Gavin for Jon Jay and Colby Rasmus.


Where is my mind?

palehozenychicty
07-25-2011, 04:40 PM
Yes, I don't know what in the world the Red Sox would want with Alex Rios, but if KW can get his ass and salary out of here, that would be a win-win. I don't care if that means De Aza is in CF the rest of this season and that tanks us, I am sick of watching Rios dog it, sick of watching him squat in the batter's box and then miss meatballs because he can't get his hands around fast enough, and sick of thinking how much money he is owed the next three years.

Since nobody in the Central is willing to break this race wide open, I feel that the Sox should act like contenders this trade deadline... I doubt they can take on any more payroll but I don't think they should be dealing useful pieces like Buehrle, Jackson, Quentin, etc. for scraps, but if KW could find a way to get rid of Rios, I'd drive him to the airport personally.

Could this deal, along with Vernon Wells and Barry Zito, be the three worst of all-time for a club? I'm not even talking the past decade. I'm talking all-time. Mike Hampton's deal with the Rockies was quite awful. I'd be stunned if A-Rod makes it to 2017, honestly. Ricciardi should never get a GM job again.

palehozenychicty
07-25-2011, 04:48 PM
If it's an interest to anyone, I had a dream last night that Kenny traded Gavin for Jon Jay and Colby Rasmus.


Where is my mind?

That would be even more fabulous. Gavin is still too inconsistent for my tastes.

kevingrt
07-25-2011, 04:57 PM
Could this deal, along with Vernon Wells and Barry Zito, be the three worst of all-time for a club? I'm not even talking the past decade. I'm talking all-time. Mike Hampton's deal with the Rockies was quite awful. I'd be stunned if A-Rod makes it to 2017, honestly. Ricciardi should never get a GM job again.

The Alfonso Soriano signing is pretty horrendous.

ZombieRob
07-25-2011, 05:11 PM
KW taking the blame for this season and according to him the Rasmus rumors are "false"

http://twitter.com/#!/cst_Cowley (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_Cowley)

dickallen15
07-25-2011, 05:26 PM
KW taking the blame for this season and according to him the Rasmus rumors are "false"

http://twitter.com/#!/cst_Cowley (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_Cowley)

That's what I thought and was told by someone who may know yesterday.

DSpivack
07-25-2011, 05:33 PM
The Alfonso Soriano signing is pretty horrendous.

It may be bad but at least he is producing somewhat. Dunn and Rios aren't at all.

PalehosePlanet
07-25-2011, 05:43 PM
Could this deal, along with Vernon Wells and Barry Zito, be the three worst of all-time for a club? I'm not even talking the past decade. I'm talking all-time. Mike Hampton's deal with the Rockies was quite awful. I'd be stunned if A-Rod makes it to 2017, honestly. Ricciardi should never get a GM job again.

The Rios contract is for half the money than the other three mentioned, so not quite.

Zisk77
07-25-2011, 11:42 PM
KW taking the blame for this season and according to him the Rasmus rumors are "false"

http://twitter.com/#!/cst_Cowley (http://twitter.com/#%21/cst_Cowley)

Actually KW was on tv saying the rumors were incorrect as reported...not false. Meaning they could be discussing a trade for Colby but not necessarily for the guys being reported.

GoSox4
07-26-2011, 02:08 AM
Does anyone else think that this and all of the other rumours about blowing up the team were planted by KW to take media attention off of the team?

kevingrt
07-26-2011, 09:49 AM
Does anyone else think that this and all of the other rumours about blowing up the team were planted by KW to take media attention off of the team?

This.

doublem23
07-26-2011, 10:02 AM
Does anyone else think that this and all of the other rumours about blowing up the team were planted by KW to take media attention off of the team?

No

Hitmen77
07-26-2011, 10:03 AM
no
+1

DirtySox
07-26-2011, 10:43 AM
http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/190827556/jon_heyman_normal.jpg
SI_JonHeyman (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman) Jon Heyman
rasmus a #chisox (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23chisox) goal (as @JoeStrauss (http://twitter.com/JoeStrauss) reported). but match w/ #stlcards (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23stlcards) may not be there. #tradedeadline (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23tradedeadline)
2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/SI_JonHeyman/status/95881120998109184) Favorite (http://twitter.com/#) Retweet (http://twitter.com/#) Reply (http://twitter.com/#)

DirtySox
07-26-2011, 12:09 PM
The Nats and Mariners are inquiring on Rasmus as well.

dickallen15
07-26-2011, 12:13 PM
I have the feeling BJ Upton is what KW really wants. Rays linked to Rasmus. Maybe that's your 3 way deal.

DirtySox
07-26-2011, 12:18 PM
I have the feeling BJ Upton is what KW really wants. Rays linked to Rasmus. Maybe that's your 3 way deal.

Meh. I hope not.

doublem23
07-26-2011, 12:27 PM
Meh. I hope not.

Yeah, Upton's been pretty average the last 4 seasons and he's about to get pretty expensive in arbitration.

DirtySox
07-26-2011, 12:42 PM
Yeah, Upton's been pretty average the last 4 seasons and he's about to get pretty expensive in arbitration.

Yep. He's also a free agent after next season.

Hitmen77
07-26-2011, 12:46 PM
Does anyone else think that this and all of the other rumours about blowing up the team were planted by KW to take media attention off of the team?

Why does your signature have someone pissing on the White Sox championship monument? :?:

Huisj
07-26-2011, 01:11 PM
Yeah, Upton's been pretty average the last 4 seasons and he's about to get pretty expensive in arbitration.

Average for the Sox maybe. His .239 batting average and 407 K's over the last three seasons would fit in great in the Sox' lineup. For any other team, that's called bad though. He's been pretty much pathetic for a long time now.

doublem23
07-26-2011, 02:00 PM
Average for the Sox maybe. His .239 batting average and 407 K's over the last three seasons would fit in great in the Sox' lineup. For any other team, that's called bad though. He's been pretty much pathetic for a long time now.

I was going on average that his OPS+ is almost a perfect 100 for 2008-2011.

Dude still hits for some power.

Rocky Soprano
07-26-2011, 02:10 PM
Why does your signature have someone pissing on the White Sox championship monument? :?:

He's probably making light of Ozzie's comments.
Ozzie "ripped" Sox fans and said that he has seen drunk Sox fans pee on the monument.

He later backtracked like he always does.

Lorenzo Barcelo
07-26-2011, 02:22 PM
Why does your signature have someone pissing on the White Sox championship monument? :?:

Probably because Ozzie said all White Sox fans are drunk and urinate on the monument.

Hitmen77
07-26-2011, 02:36 PM
He's probably making light of Ozzie's comments.
Ozzie "ripped" Sox fans and said that he has seen drunk Sox fans pee on the monument.

He later backtracked like he always does.

Probably because Ozzie said all White Sox fans are drunk and urinate on the monument.

Ah, I get it now. But, Ozzie threw us fans under the bus to deflect attention away from the team, right? It's just part of his genius!

balke
07-26-2011, 05:51 PM
I was going on average that his OPS+ is almost a perfect 100 for 2008-2011.

Dude still hits for some power.


Who cares about making contact if he's got power. Didn't we say the same thing for Dunn?

russ99
07-26-2011, 06:24 PM
Who cares about making contact if he's got power. Didn't we say the same thing for Dunn?

Rasmus has similar concerns. He's had a good OPS but hasn't shown that he can hit for average at a high level, even in the minors.

Which is why we be trading for a younger, cheaper version of Quentin in both players.

I'd hope the Sox would have more foresight than that and Kenny wouldn't repeat the same mistakes. He did learn from 2007 that acquiring players with very limited criteria (OPS in this case) doesn't usually pay off.

balke
07-26-2011, 06:43 PM
Didn't the philosophy used to be that a guy with some power and a high average will develop good power? Nowadays it seems like people go straight for the OPS. even in young players.

Seems like its a lot less likely a guy develops average - and if all they have is power... there's a lot left to gamble when they slump. Or they might only truly help a team for 1-2 months and be a detriment the rest of the season.