PDA

View Full Version : Who's worse than Adam Dunn? Alex Rios, of course!


kittle42
07-22-2011, 09:44 AM
From rotoworld.com today:

Dunn's .588 OPS is the second worst in all of baseball, trailing only teammate Alex Rios' shockingly bad .565 number.

http://rotoworld.com/player/mlb/3304/adam-dunn

eriqjaffe
07-22-2011, 09:46 AM
The fact that the Sox are only 4 games under .500 is kind of mind-boggling, isn't it?

kittle42
07-22-2011, 09:50 AM
The fact that the Sox are only 4 games under .500 is kind of mind-boggling, isn't it?

Actually, yes. To, at least from an OPS standpoint, have two of the worst players in baseball and still only be 4 under is pretty surprising.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/OPS/order/false

Actually, looks like, as of today, Ian Desmond is second worst, with Dunn third. Sox also have 2 other players in the bottom 30 with Pierre and known franchise savior Beckham.

tstrike2000
07-22-2011, 09:57 AM
I'm really glad both of them are locked in here for a few more years.

Johnny Mostil
07-22-2011, 10:07 AM
Actually, yes. To, at least from an OPS standpoint, have two of the worst players in baseball and still only be 4 under is pretty surprising.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/OPS/order/false

Actually, looks like, as of today, Ian Desmond is second worst, with Dunn third. Sox also have 2 other players in the bottom 30 with Pierre and known franchise savior Beckham.

Which is why I honestly think the only thing the Sox need to have happen to contend is to have the two of them start hitting. Not that I'm holding my breath in anticipation of that . . .

Gavin
07-22-2011, 10:11 AM
OPS isn't the end-all statistic, but both of them even have equitable WARs (-1.5 Rios, -1.6 Dunn). I think Rios is a little better offensively, but ****, almost everyone in MLB is better than Dunn too. With that being said, can Dunn pitch?

Johnny Mostil
07-22-2011, 10:16 AM
OPS isn't the end-all statistic, but both of them even have equitable WARs (-1.5 Rios, -1.6 Dunn). I think Rios is a little better offensively, but ****, almost everyone in MLB is better than Dunn too. With that being said, can Dunn pitch?

I was looking at those WARs recently, as well as Dunn's RAR and oWAR. I shouldn't have been, but I was startled to see such negative values for a DH.

blandman
07-22-2011, 11:10 AM
The numbers are far worse than people think for a lot of our players, as guys like Morel don't qualify yet due to plate appearances. If he did, our starters would produce the worst OPS in the majors at three positions (LF, CF, and DH), the third worst OPS in the majors at 3rd base, the fifth worst OPS at catcher, and the seventh worst OPS at 2B. That's 2/3 of our starting lineup among the worst players at their position in all of baseball. The offense is really only PK, TCQ, and TCM. That's it. We're in this because of our pitching, pure and simple.

kittle42
07-22-2011, 11:13 AM
The numbers are far worse than people think for a lot of our players, as guys like Morel don't qualify yet due to play appearances. If he did, our starters would produce the worst OPS in the majors at three positions (LF, CF, and DH), the third worst OPS in the majors at 3rd base, the fifth worst OPS at catcher, and the seventh worst OPS at 2B. That's 2/3 of our starting lineup among the worst players at their position in all of baseball. The offense is really only PK, TCQ, and TCM. That's it. We're in this because of our pitching, pure and simple.

That is utterly and completely pathetic.

And in a "hitters' park."

tstrike2000
07-22-2011, 11:16 AM
The numbers are far worse than people think for a lot of our players, as guys like Morel don't qualify yet due to play appearances. If he did, our starters would produce the worst OPS in the majors at three positions (LF, CF, and DH), the third worst OPS in the majors at 3rd base, the fifth worst OPS at catcher, and the seventh worst OPS at 2B. That's 2/3 of our starting lineup among the worst players at their position in all of baseball. The offense is really only PK, TCQ, and TCM. That's it. We're in this because of our pitching, pure and simple.

Greg Walker will get an extension for job security to make sure he oversees that these problems are corrected.

DirtySox
07-22-2011, 11:24 AM
De Aza anyone?

kittle42
07-22-2011, 11:30 AM
De Aza anyone?

He is certainly not the answer to anything other than "Whom can we get to knock Beckham out of the bottom 30 in OPS?"

DirtySox
07-22-2011, 11:39 AM
He is certainly not the answer to anything other than "Whom can we get to knock Beckham out of the bottom 30 in OPS?"

De Aza would undoubtedly outperform Alex Rios both offensively and defensively at this point. He's actually hitting better than Dayan.

.326/.384/.505

Hitmen77
07-22-2011, 12:28 PM
From rotoworld.com today:

Dunn's .588 OPS is the second worst in all of baseball, trailing only teammate Alex Rios' shockingly bad .565 number.

http://rotoworld.com/player/mlb/3304/adam-dunn

In other words,

Worst = Rios: 11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M, 15:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)
2nd Worst = Dunn: 11:$12M, 12:$14M, 13:$15M, 14:$15M

Counting this year, the Sox owe these guys $106 million over the next 4 seasons! Way to go Kenny! :bandance:

captain54
07-22-2011, 12:35 PM
In other words,

Way to go Kenny! :bandance:




:KW

"C'mon guys, hit AT LEAST your season average..or Uncle Jerry's gonna be REAL mad at me!

kittle42
07-22-2011, 12:45 PM
:KW

"C'mon guys, hit AT LEAST your season average..or Uncle Jerry's gonna be REAL mad at me!

Stay out of White Sox business!

balke
07-22-2011, 05:55 PM
From rotoworld.com today:

Dunn's .588 OPS is the second worst in all of baseball, trailing only teammate Alex Rios' shockingly bad .565 number.

http://rotoworld.com/player/mlb/3304/adam-dunn

Brent Morel - .552 OPS

guillensdisciple
07-22-2011, 05:56 PM
30 million dollars for the two worst hitters in the bigs. No big dealllllllll

TaylorStSox
07-22-2011, 05:59 PM
I can't figure out if we're sad bad or funny bad. I waver. I'm thinking funny right now. Hell, most goalies get more chances to run than Adam Dunn. He just has to walk to the plate 4 times a game, swing, and walk back. But, at least he's trying harder than Rios. That's all that matters.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-22-2011, 06:09 PM
Brent Morel - .552 OPS

Brent Morel is also a rookie, is making $414,000, and wasn't expected to shoulder the load of the offense.

Adam Dunn and Alex Rios are getting paid $24 million, and were counted on to be key contributors on offense.

World of difference there.

balke
07-22-2011, 06:11 PM
Brent Morel is also a rookie, is making $414,000, and wasn't expected to shoulder the load of the offense.

Adam Dunn and Alex Rios are getting paid $24 million, and were counted on to be key contributors on offense.

World of difference there.

If we are going to talk about the worst hitter in baseball - the worst hitter on the team - fixing this team... 3B is still part of this discussion.

Money is already gone - it is already spent. Sox fans need to recognize that even if they do get some production out of the money guys - there's a guy who's offensively an even bigger problem and a guy who a lot of people could've said coming into this season would be a blackhole offensively.

For the record I prefer his glove at 3B to Viciedo playing 3B... but 3 guys on this team are the 3 worst hitters in the majors. That's why Juan Pierre can hit .377 for a month, Beckham can get hot, Konerko can have one of the best seasons of his career... and the Sox have nothing offensively to show for it.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-22-2011, 06:22 PM
If we are going to talk about the worst hitter in baseball - the worst hitter on the team - fixing this team... 3B is still part of this discussion.

Money is already gone - it is already spent. Sox fans need to recognize that even if they do get some production out of the money guys - there's a guy who's offensively an even bigger problem and a guy who a lot of people could've said coming into this season would be a blackhole offensively.

OK, I'll bite.

Say Morel is, in fact, the worst hitter on the team. Who can we get that can hit better and can at least adequately play 3rd for the same price? We sure aren't going to go out and make a trade for a 3rd baseman.

Morel can at least play a decent 3rd base, and I'd be willing to live with the offensive weakness from 3rd if the other two were hitting anywhere close to below-average, because our offense was expected to be one of the best in baseball. But since Dunn and Rios are playing like they've never even seen a baseball before in their lives, suddenly Morel isn't cutting the mustard? I fail to see the logic in that. He's doing pretty much what was expected of him...a light-hitting defensive 3B.

I think there are MUCH worse problems on this team than Morel.

SoxNation05
07-22-2011, 06:33 PM
I asked my 1st through 4th grade campers who is the worst player on the Sox. The reward would be to bat leadoff. I was looking for Rios. 5 kids said Dunn and 1 said Ozzie.

balke
07-22-2011, 06:49 PM
OK, I'll bite.

Say Morel is, in fact, the worst hitter on the team. Who can we get that can hit better and can at least adequately play 3rd for the same price? We sure aren't going to go out and make a trade for a 3rd baseman.

Morel can at least play a decent 3rd base, and I'd be willing to live with the offensive weakness from 3rd if the other two were hitting anywhere close to below-average, because our offense was expected to be one of the best in baseball. But since Dunn and Rios are playing like they've never even seen a baseball before in their lives, suddenly Morel isn't cutting the mustard? I fail to see the logic in that. He's doing pretty much what was expected of him...a light-hitting defensive 3B.

I think there are MUCH worse problems on this team than Morel.

I think 2 of these 3 have a good chance to produce better in their careers. I think 3B is the biggest problem on this team and has been since they decided Beckham wasn't going to play there.

kevingrt
07-22-2011, 08:21 PM
I think 2 of these 3 have a good chance to produce better in their careers. I think 3B is the biggest problem oon this team and has been since they decided Beckhamm wasn't going too play there.

Then wouldn't 2B be our biggest problem? Unless you really thought Getz was an everyday major league 2B which obviously someone in KC believes right now.

Mohoney
07-22-2011, 09:31 PM
De Aza anyone?

In a Twins, Tigers, or Indians uniform, yes.

Red Barchetta
07-22-2011, 09:56 PM
Actually, yes. To, at least from an OPS standpoint, have two of the worst players in baseball and still only be 4 under is pretty surprising.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/sort/OPS/order/false

Actually, looks like, as of today, Ian Desmond is second worst, with Dunn third. Sox also have 2 other players in the bottom 30 with Pierre and known franchise savior Beckham.

I referenced this on the Fans Voice thread. The SOX would be in first place if Dunn and Rios were performing based on their career average. Their lack of performance has easily cost the SOX 10 wins.

Lip Man 1
07-22-2011, 10:06 PM
Dunn at least seems to care about what's going on based on his statements. Rios, I just get the sense he could care less as long as he gets paid twice a month.

Lip

TaylorStSox
07-23-2011, 05:22 AM
Dunn at least seems to care about what's going on based on his statements. Rios, I just get the sense he could care less as long as he gets paid twice a month.

Lip

Why? Rios doesn't do interviews. He doesn't do them when he's going bad or when he's going good. He's not very animated. But, that's his nature. When he's going good, he's quiet too. He looks like he's lackadaisical in the field, but it's his nature. He'll make some spectacular plays and look like he's floating. I actually respect that he doesn't toss his bat every time he pops up. He's pretty stoic. IMO, the best players are. Obviously, his play leaves a lot to be desired. However, I haven't seen anything that tells me he doesn't care, or he isn't trying. He looks like a broken man.It's sad to me.

You might bring up the game that he got benched. Well, almost everyone in our lineup doesn't run out routine plays. JP and Ramirez are the only ones. There aren't a whole lot of Carl Everett's on this team. They're a boring bunch. Singling out Rios is unfair IMO. Sure, he absolutely sucks, but there is NO EVIDENCE that he's not trying as hard as Dunn. For crying out loud, the game that he got benched, a reserve blew it because he was lollygagging.

If you're going to call out Rios, call out everytime a guy fails to move a runner over. Call out everytime AJ pops up in a crucial situation. Call out everytime PK pouts.Call out every time GB k's with his head down. Call out every time AJ swings at the first pitch after a walk. Call out everytime Alexei (my favorite player) walks away from an AB looking clueless or smiling.

The unit sucks. Dunn sucks. Rios sucks. Morel sucks. GB sucks. AJ marginally sucks. JP sucks. Don't act like Rios is the only one.

Don't question is effort. It's only conjecture.

I want to add... if the guy's got any pride, he's embarrassed. He's embarrassed about his performance and robbing a great team. What do you want him to do? I guess he should give the money back. Well. then so should Peavy and Dunn.

TaylorStSox
07-23-2011, 05:54 AM
I just want to reiterate that leading the league in TBAPU (tossed bats after pop up) doesn't mean you're trying hard. It means you're a baby.

I know I'm biased. I haven't liked AJ since he elbowed Frank in the Metrodome. Obviously, I root for him, he's a White Sox. That doesn't mean I have to like him, his demeanor or his God awful lack of ability to hold runners accountable for stealing. Every one excuses him because our pitchers can't "hold runners on." Well, so what. His job is to make them pay for trying to take advantage it. At least try to keep them honest. He's part of the reason that we're the anti 05 team. We're the Angels from that year, but far more underachieving.

What I mean is that the Angels team was built to destroy us. They forgot there's an actual game that has to be played. Not only did we beat them... We embarrassed them.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2011, 11:42 AM
Taylor:

There have been a lot of times this year (as other have pointed out) where Rios hasn't run hard on the bases, to fly balls etc.

It's gotten to the point where opposing announcers are noticing and calling him out for it (Ray Fosse - A's TV). The A's also showed replays during an early season broadcast against the Sox where Rios was hardly running down the first base line.

Lip

Irishsox1
07-25-2011, 10:12 AM
Taylor:

There have been a lot of times this year (as other have pointed out) where Rios hasn't run hard on the bases, to fly balls etc.

It's gotten to the point where opposing announcers are noticing and calling him out for it (Ray Fosse - A's TV). The A's also showed replays during an early season broadcast against the Sox where Rios was hardly running down the first base line.

Lip

The bigger issue is he can't hit at all. You add in his lazy effort, slightly above average play in the outfield and general ineptitude, cutting him and taking the loss would be better for this team. I know the Sox won't cut him because of his horrible contract but if the Sox could get rid of only one guy, it should be Rios. He's a bad egg.

kevingrt
07-25-2011, 10:23 AM
The bigger issue is he can't hit at all. You add in his lazy effort, slightly above average play in the outfield and general ineptitude, cutting him and taking the loss would be better for this team. I know the Sox won't cut him because of his horrible contract but if the Sox could get rid of only one guy, it should be Rios. He's a bad egg.

Completely agree. Even though Dunn has been worse based on statistics and his -1.7 WAR it at least appears that Adam Dunn is trying on the field. Well, minus yesterday where if he actually ran to first base on the groundball that Orlando Cabrera misplayed he would have been safe but whatever. I have trouble getting mad at multiple players so I am going to be mad at Rios because he dogs it way too often and looks completely lost at the plate. So yes, get rid of him. Somehow, someway.

DSpivack
07-25-2011, 10:25 AM
Completely agree. Even though Dunn has been worse based on statistics and his -1.7 WAR it at least appears that Adam Dunn is trying on the field. Well, minus yesterday where if he actually ran to first base on the groundball that Orlando Cabrera misplayed he would have been safe but whatever. I have trouble getting mad at multiple players so I am going to be mad at Rios because he dogs it way too often and looks completely lost at the plate. So yes, get rid of him. Somehow, someway.

I wish it was possible. I just can't see any realistic scenario where that happens.

Boondock Saint
07-25-2011, 10:33 AM
I wish it was possible. I just can't see any realistic scenario where that happens.

The only thing I can think of is a Milton Bradley-Carlos Silva crap-for-crap kind of deal.

kaufsox
07-25-2011, 10:44 AM
The only thing I can think of is a Milton Bradley-Carlos Silva crap-for-crap kind of deal.

yep, Sox bought a lemon they really need to find another sucker which might me tough.