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Rocky Soprano
07-21-2011, 10:32 AM
It has been said many times that members from the Sox organization read the boards here. We've also been referred to as the core of the core, so one would think that they are interested in knowing what we are saying. Many members here have been saying that status quo is not working and that a change is needed. Some members have gone as far as vowing not to go to a game until Ozzie and/or Walker are fired.

Obviously the Sox are not going to do what "we" want. The majority of fans are screaming for change, are the Sox listening? Do they even care about the fans voice? Do we have a voice?

beasly213
07-21-2011, 10:51 AM
Management should listen to fans when it comes to stuff like the ball park experience. If the White Sox upper management is looking at a fan site message board for player and team organization advice then they're in more trouble than any of us could possibly imagine.

chisoxfanatic
07-21-2011, 10:55 AM
Management should listen to fans when it comes to stuff like the ball park experience. If the White Sox upper management is looking at a fan site message board for player and team organization advice then they're in more trouble than any of us could possibly imagine.
Well, there are certain things that I think the fans here are spot-on about (especially about the fire Walker topic).

Rocky Soprano
07-21-2011, 11:11 AM
Management should listen to fans when it comes to stuff like the ball park experience. If the White Sox upper management is looking at a fan site message board for player and team organization advice then they're in more trouble than any of us could possibly imagine.

I'm not saying that they should our would.
Since they do read the boards, I am just wondering if the fire Ozzie/fire Walker/fire KW messages are being read/shared within the organization.

soltrain21
07-21-2011, 11:11 AM
Well, there are certain things that I think the fans here are spot-on about (especially about the fire Walker topic).

It's not like fans clamoring for a manager or hitting coach to be fired is breaking any sort of new ground.

beasly213
07-21-2011, 11:16 AM
I'm not saying that they should our would.
Since they do read the boards, I am just wondering if the fire Ozzie/fire Walker/fire KW messages are being read/shared within the organization.

Doubtful. Almost every teams fanbase hates their manager. They hate Leland in Detroit, They hate their manager in Minnesota, Hell remember when Yankees fans hated Joe Torre? All across baseball the grass is always greener on the other side until you end up with someone like Mike Quade.

Noneck
07-21-2011, 11:20 AM
5th straight year of attendance drop. That is the pulse of the fans.

chisoxfanatic
07-21-2011, 11:26 AM
It's not like fans clamoring for a manager or hitting coach to be fired is breaking any sort of new ground.
But it's been discussed a ton here with good reason, yet the Sox have done nothing about it! This organization is far too stubborn.

hi im skot
07-21-2011, 11:30 AM
But it's been discussed a ton here with good reason, yet the Sox have done nothing about it! This organization is far too stubborn.

As someone else pointed out, if the front office is looking to fan message boards for opinions and ideas on coaching positions, this team is more ****ed than any of ever imagined.

chisoxfanatic
07-21-2011, 11:35 AM
As someone else pointed out, if the front office is looking to fan message boards for opinions and ideas on coaching positions, this team is more ****ed than any of ever imagined.
I can read but partially disagree. :rolleyes:

Rocky Soprano
07-21-2011, 11:43 AM
As someone else pointed out, if the front office is looking to fan message boards for opinions and ideas on coaching positions, this team is more ****ed than any of ever imagined.

Yet they do read the boards to get a feel of how the fans are feeling.
I doubt that those members from the Sox organization just come on here to read about churros.

kevingrt
07-21-2011, 11:44 AM
5th straight year of attendance drop. That is the pulse of the fans.

5th straight year of performing below expectations as well.

hi im skot
07-21-2011, 11:45 AM
I can read but partially disagree. :rolleyes:

I wasn't doubting your reading ability, just reinforcing what others have said.

This is the same message board where an overwhelming majority of posters stated that they couldn't manage the team better than the current manager. With that group admission, why on earth would the front office consider even entertaining what we think should be done with the coaching staff?

Just because I'm a knowledgeable fan doesn't mean KW and Reinsdorf should be consulting with me on who needs to be handed their walking papers.

voodoochile
07-21-2011, 11:47 AM
Management should listen to fans when it comes to stuff like the ball park experience. If the White Sox upper management is looking at a fan site message board for player and team organization advice then they're in more trouble than any of us could possibly imagine.

Like

hi im skot
07-21-2011, 11:48 AM
Yet they do read the boards to get a feel of how the fans are feeling.
I doubt that those members from the Sox organization just come on here to read about churros.

Yeah, I know that it's well known that folks from the Sox read the board, but as beasly pointed out, I think they're more interested in the ballpark experience.

They may keep an eye on things to get a pulse on how the fanbase is feeling, but I doubt anyone is passing info over to KW and JR saying, "You know, Sox fans would like us even more if we fired Greg Walker."

I'm upset with this team as much as everyone else, but the sense of entitlement some folks are displaying is pretty embarrassing.

chisoxfanatic
07-21-2011, 11:51 AM
Yeah, I know that it's well known that folks from the Sox read the board, but as beasly pointed out, I think they're more interested in the ballpark experience.

They may keep an eye on things to get a pulse on how the fanbase is feeling, but I doubt anyone is passing info over to KW and JR saying, "You know, Sox fans would like us even more if we fired Greg Walker."

I'm upset with this team as much as everyone else, but the sense of entitlement some folks are displaying is pretty embarrassing.
What is even more embarrassing is the lax attitude that KW's shown for such a long time. Until mentalities change at the top, we will continue to see mediocrity on the baseball diamond.

hi im skot
07-21-2011, 11:55 AM
What is even more embarrassing is the lax attitude that KW's shown for such a long time. Until mentalities change at the top, we will continue to see mediocrity on the baseball diamond.

I don't think that Williams has shown a lax attitude. I think he's just as upset with the team's performance as we are (he's made no secret of how seriously he takes his job), but I think his hands might be tied. The weird relationship between he, Reinsdorf and Guillen has likely made the decision making process unnecessarily complicated.

This is all pure speculation, of course, but if it's remotely close to reality, it shows how screwed up the organization actually is.

amsteel
07-21-2011, 11:56 AM
The only fans that organization listens to are season ticket holders, and justifiably so since they are the ones paying for the dog dirt being run out there everyday.

That being said, if the team saw a drop in season ticket holders, maybe they might begin to realize the fan base is upset. I'm not saying STHs need to put up or shut up, but they are the only ones with any real sort of 'power'.

Rocky Soprano
07-21-2011, 11:57 AM
Yeah, I know that it's well known that folks from the Sox read the board, but as beasly pointed out, I think they're more interested in the ballpark experience.

They may keep an eye on things to get a pulse on how the fanbase is feeling, but I doubt anyone is passing info over to KW and JR saying, "You know, Sox fans would like us even more if we fired Greg Walker."

I'm upset with this team as much as everyone else, but the sense of entitlement some folks are displaying is pretty embarrassing.

I for one don't feel entitled.

What is unbelievable to me is that with the results on the field, the downtrending attendance, and the fans asking for change, that here we are almost in August and nothing has been done.

Noneck
07-21-2011, 11:58 AM
5th straight year of performing below expectations as well.

One goes hand in hand with the other.

kufram
07-21-2011, 12:07 PM
I'd be surprised if the organization was unaware of of the hue and cry of the fanbase (whatever that means). I'm not sure that WSI is representative of the fanbase. It is pretty hardcore here.

I hope that the organization totally ignores the fanbase, including me, when making baseball decisions.

soxgirl617
07-21-2011, 03:43 PM
I'd be surprised if the organization was unaware of of the hue and cry of the fanbase (whatever that means). I'm not sure that WSI is representative of the fanbase. It is pretty hardcore here.

I hope that the organization totally ignores the fanbase, including me, when making baseball decisions.


Exactly---I can't say it any better than that.

Lip Man 1
07-21-2011, 03:46 PM
I agree a lot with what Skot wrote. The dynamic between the folks running the show just seems odd. I understand you don't all have to be one big happy family(see the Oakland A's of the early 70's) but at least you have to be professional and that appears to be lacking at times.

Seriously how many owners can you remember who spoke with the media and said that he told both individuals to cut it out, work together and keep things private?

Lip

BigKlu59
07-21-2011, 04:42 PM
I agree a lot with what Skot wrote. The dynamic between the folks running the show just seems odd. I understand you don't all have to be one big happy family(see the Oakland A's of the early 70's) but at least you have to be professional and that appears to be lacking at times.

Seriously how many owners can you remember who spoke with the media and said that he told both individuals to cut it out, work together and keep things private?

Lip


Why does a picture of Bad News Bears pop into my head.... :D:

The A's.... Ya, its a wonder they didnt have daily knife fights pre and post game.. But once between the lines, winning for themselves and Crazy Charlie was the name of the game...

BK59

daveeym
07-21-2011, 06:19 PM
Management should listen to fans when it comes to stuff like the ball park experience. If the White Sox upper management is looking at a fan site message board for player and team organization advice then they're in more trouble than any of us could possibly imagine.

Generally this.

5th straight year of attendance drop. That is the pulse of the fans.

However, when you have failures to this degree THIS. **** the fans, they should be able to see this on their own. When you add in the list of issues that have been posted time and time again it's no longer annoying fans that are overreactive. Ozzie rips the fans, the team underperforms, and ozzie continually ****s the bed strategically. 5, going on 6 years, time for them to listen to the fans.

russ99
07-21-2011, 07:37 PM
I'd be surprised if the organization was unaware of of the hue and cry of the fanbase (whatever that means). I'm not sure that WSI is representative of the fanbase. It is pretty hardcore here.


I put that forward earlier as well. Look around to other sites and message boards, while Sox fans in general are certainly disappointed with the season so far, A very vocal majority on this site takes the cake.

And personally, I have to wonder if it's worth it coming here anymore. This used to be a place for relatively even-tempered discussion among thinking fans who have solidarity due to following the same team. Now it's angry finger-pointing and mob mentality with derision given to those who don't fall in line...

It's only baseball. This is supposed to be a pastime or entertainment, maybe some have lost sight of that.

DumpJerry
07-21-2011, 08:15 PM
1. The team does not give a rat's ass what the fans think of the Manager, Hitting Coach or Visitors Clubhouse Manager. Those are decisions left up to people who know the complete picture.
2. The team wants to know what the fans think of the food, product pricing, safety and security during the game, in-game promotions. You know, the experience.
3. The only people who know if Kenny has a "lax attitude" or Ozzie "does not care" are the people who work at the higher levels of the organization. I'm sure the front office gets plenty of laughs at posts that describe the internal relationships which are based on 100% speculation.

How many Managers have been fired because the fans wanted him fired? Zero. Nada. None. Mod mentality does not work well in sports management. Managers are fired because the players don't get along with him and they are not winning. Managers are fired because there has been a change in the front office and they want their own people in place. Managers are fired because they don't get along with the person who signs the paychecks. But I've never heard a team say "we fired our manager because the fans told us to do so." Why would a team do this? How many tickets does a Manager sell? None. How many tickets does a stud player sell? Thousands.

Red Barchetta
07-21-2011, 08:23 PM
This season and the .500ish team are the result of two factors; (1) Adam Dunn and (2) Alex Rios. Simple.

The (lack of) performance between those two key players has IMO easily resulted in a 10 game swing in their W/L record.

So what's a GM/Manager/Hitting Coach to do when two proven veterans have not performed at such a disasterous level? I know many of us would like to sit them, however there is no way that much $$$ will ride the pine.

I agree the SOX should do something, however I don't know what that something is...

captain54
07-21-2011, 08:37 PM
So what's a GM/Manager/Hitting Coach to do when two proven veterans have not performed at such a disasterous level? I know many of us would like to sit them, however there is no way that much $$$ will ride the pine.

I agree the SOX should do something, however I don't know what that something is...

the Sox scored 1 run on a home run, in 19 innings against one of the worst teams in the AL.. Dunn wasn't in the lineup...

Rocky Soprano
07-21-2011, 08:43 PM
How many tickets does a Manager sell? None.

How many tickets are not being bought due to a bad manager?

captain54
07-21-2011, 09:34 PM
2. The team wants to know what the fans think of the food, product pricing, safety and security during the game, in-game promotions. You know, the experience.



There are an awful lot of fans that are perfectly happy with the food, product pricing, safety and security, in-game promotions during the game...however, they can't dump their season seats fast enough this year, and won't be renewing next year, because the product on the field blows..

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-21-2011, 09:41 PM
There are an awful lot of fans that are perfectly happy with the food, product pricing, safety and security, in-game promotions during the game...however, they can't dump their season seats fast enough this year, and won't be renewing next year, because the product on the field blows..

I'm not a season ticket holder, but I swear I'd go to every game this season for the food, IF there was a decent ballclub to go with it. Hell, I'd go with the record they have right now if they at least looked like they gave a damn on the field, and not just working the assembly line to get their money at the end of the day, led by a manager who is obviously mentally checked out.

Seeing this zombified Sox team makes me puke up my delicious nacho helmet that I just blew 12 bucks on.

dickallen15
07-21-2011, 09:57 PM
As someone else pointed out, if the front office is looking to fan message boards for opinions and ideas on coaching positions, this team is more ****ed than any of ever imagined.
As Bobby Knight once said, "If you listen to the fans, you wind up sitting with them."

dickallen15
07-21-2011, 10:00 PM
The only fans that organization listens to are season ticket holders, and justifiably so since they are the ones paying for the dog dirt being run out there everyday.

That being said, if the team saw a drop in season ticket holders, maybe they might begin to realize the fan base is upset. I'm not saying STHs need to put up or shut up, but they are the only ones with any real sort of 'power'.

Believe me, if the Sox fall short this year and wind up doing very little as far as trying to make some changes, its going to be viewed by a lot of people whether fair or not as apathy. They are going to drop a lot of season ticketholders. I know of several long term customers that are on their way out.

dickallen15
07-21-2011, 10:04 PM
1. The team does not give a rat's ass what the fans think of the Manager, Hitting Coach or Visitors Clubhouse Manager. Those are decisions left up to people who know the complete picture.
2. The team wants to know what the fans think of the food, product pricing, safety and security during the game, in-game promotions. You know, the experience.
3. The only people who know if Kenny has a "lax attitude" or Ozzie "does not care" are the people who work at the higher levels of the organization. I'm sure the front office gets plenty of laughs at posts that describe the internal relationships which are based on 100% speculation.

How many Managers have been fired because the fans wanted him fired? Zero. Nada. None. Mod mentality does not work well in sports management. Managers are fired because the players don't get along with him and they are not winning. Managers are fired because there has been a change in the front office and they want their own people in place. Managers are fired because they don't get along with the person who signs the paychecks. But I've never heard a team say "we fired our manager because the fans told us to do so." Why would a team do this? How many tickets does a Manager sell? None. How many tickets does a stud player sell? Thousands.

If the Marlins sign Ozzie, its because of the potential box office, not his propencity to bunt with his hottest hitter to open a base for his best hitter to walk so the guy hitting .033 against lefties can come to the plate to face a lefty.

DumpJerry
07-21-2011, 10:33 PM
Next time I go to a doctor and don't agree with the diagnosis or treatment plan, I'll let her know what the diagnosis should be and how I want it treated.

I have no medical school experience, but so what? I'm paying her salary.

Rocky Soprano
07-21-2011, 11:26 PM
Next time I go to a doctor and don't agree with the diagnosis or treatment plan, I'll let her know what the diagnosis should be and how I want it treated.

I have no medical school experience, but so what? I'm paying her salary.

:scratch:
Who is saying that?

Now if your doctor has a history for the past few years of misdiagnosing his patients, is stubborn in his ways, and his kids discuss your private health matters on twitter would you not look for a new doctor?

sullythered
07-21-2011, 11:37 PM
:scratch:
Who is saying that?

Now if your doctor has a history for the past few years of misdiagnosing his patients, is stubborn in his ways, and his kids discuss your private health matters on twitter would you not look for a new doctor?

His doctor is a lady.

Rocky Soprano
07-21-2011, 11:41 PM
His doctor is a lady.

:D:

The point is still the same.

kaufsox
07-22-2011, 12:22 AM
5th straight year of attendance drop. That is the pulse of the fans.

Or a tanking economy

captain54
07-22-2011, 12:42 AM
Or a tanking economy

Doesn't seem to affect NY, SanFran and Philly...avg more than 40 K/game

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-22-2011, 01:49 AM
Doesn't seem to affect NY, SanFran and Philly...avg more than 40 K/game

NY and Philly are two LCS mainstays the last few years (and have won the WS recently), and SF is the defending WS champions. Not exactly a struggling market for baseball in those areas.

gosox41
07-22-2011, 02:12 AM
It has been said many times that members from the Sox organization read the boards here. We've also been referred to as the core of the core, so one would think that they are interested in knowing what we are saying. Many members here have been saying that status quo is not working and that a change is needed. Some members have gone as far as vowing not to go to a game until Ozzie and/or Walker are fired.

Obviously the Sox are not going to do what "we" want. The majority of fans are screaming for change, are the Sox listening? Do they even care about the fans voice? Do we have a voice?

In terms of on the field stuff, they will neve do what we want. To some her, if the Sox carried a $250MM payroll, it still wouldn't be enough and they'd still be banking in millions every year.

I don't think fans should listen to message boards for advice, but on the flip side the trends of the Sox offense since 2007 clearly indicate change is needed with the offense.

The fact that the turnover rate among players is pretty high, but the results remain the same indicates to me that there is something deeper going on here.

It's a shame KW hasn't figured it out. Maybe it's time for him to get his promotion (we all know JR won't fire him) and let Hahn run the show.

Bob

captain54
07-22-2011, 02:20 AM
NY and Philly are two LCS mainstays the last few years (and have won the WS recently), and SF is the defending WS champions. Not exactly a struggling market for baseball in those areas.

Minny, LA and Cardinals....Average 38 K between them... Point is, the Sox attendance dropping because of the economy is a weak argument

Dan H
07-22-2011, 05:47 AM
I certainly don't expect the White Sox to do what I recommend. However, if you want to talk of entitlement, think of major league baseball. Because they stick a franchise someplace, they expect three million in attendance every year. Think again.

This ownership has done some good things, but it has won one World Series in 30 years. They have won division titles and have had some great players. They also hired Terry Bevington, made an announcer with no front office experience as GM and nearly drove the team into oblivion in the late '90's.

So, yes the ownership can ignore the fans and do what they want. But if they don't want to listen to the fans, they should listen to somebody. This team has some big problems and one is credibility with the fans.

kaufsox
07-22-2011, 10:52 AM
Minny, LA and Cardinals....Average 38 K between them... Point is, the Sox attendance dropping because of the economy is a weak argument

fair enough, but I still think its a factor. I agree poor baseball plays a part too, but if you only have so much disposable income, the choice to spend it on mediocre baseball becomes much easier. I don't think it's a coincidence that both the Cubs and Sox have declining attendance in the same market, effected by the same economic and other factors.

captain54
07-22-2011, 01:23 PM
fair enough, but I still think its a factor. I agree poor baseball plays a part too, but if you only have so much disposable income, the choice to spend it on mediocre baseball becomes much easier.

I still contend that if the team is fun and winning and rockin' it, the fans will come. Granted, they are smaller venues, but the Blackhawks and Bulls manage to sell out and those tix aren't cheap

chisoxfanatic
07-22-2011, 01:30 PM
I still contend that if the team is fun and winning and rockin' it, the fans will come. Granted, they are smaller venues, but the Blackhawks and Bulls manage to sell out and those tix aren't cheap
Yea, it seems that they draw at least 30,000 on most nights when they actually look like they have a pulse. But, this Sox team hasn't shown much of a pulse at all this season, save for maybe a few weeks, and it's disgusting. In general, Sox fans are good in showing the management their displeasure in the product on the field by not spending their money at the ballpark. I have only gone to 1 game this year and only shelled out $10 of my own money at that game (concessions). I'm very unhappy with how things have been handled for the past few years and don't feel they deserve money from me. It doesn't seem like they even have a reasonable plan in place when they constantly look like they're ok with keeping a status quo.

kittle42
07-22-2011, 02:03 PM
I'm very unhappy with how things have been handled for the past few years and don't feel they deserve money from me. It doesn't seem like they even have a reasonable plan in place when they constantly look like they're ok with keeping a status quo.

100% agree. I have watched/listened to/attended less Sox baseball this season than I can ever remember. Screw 'em. I have, however, paid a lot more attention to other teams, particularly the NL this season, and have enjoyed the baseball season overall thus far.

chisoxfanatic
07-22-2011, 02:11 PM
100% agree. I have watched/listened to/attended less Sox baseball this season than I can ever remember. Screw 'em. I have, however, paid a lot more attention to other teams, particularly the NL this season, and have enjoyed the baseball season overall thus far.
I still have watched Sox games on TV, probably much more than last year (the Blackhawks had a big part in that last year). But, if there was one good thing about the lack of a desire to go to the ballpark this year, it is that I have been paying much larger chunks of money to my student loans for the past few months! I now have only a few thousand dollars left until I am completely debt-free (paid off my car over 4 years ago)! :bandance:

daveeym
07-22-2011, 04:43 PM
Next time I go to a doctor and don't agree with the diagnosis or treatment plan, I'll let her know what the diagnosis should be and how I want it treated.

I have no medical school experience, but so what? I'm paying her salary.

Haha I love this argument. The person that sees 40 people a day, isn't in your own shoes so doesn't truly understand your symptoms and is overworked beyond all get out usually. You're a fool if you don't do your own research on anything serious with a doctor. Not because the doctor is bad, but because they can't possibly know everything and give a damn about every person that comes through their door. Just one more stupid argument like don't question your lawyer or don't question your manager they know what's best.

Domeshot17
07-22-2011, 05:30 PM
It has been said many times that members from the Sox organization read the boards here. We've also been referred to as the core of the core, so one would think that they are interested in knowing what we are saying. Many members here have been saying that status quo is not working and that a change is needed. Some members have gone as far as vowing not to go to a game until Ozzie and/or Walker are fired.

Obviously the Sox are not going to do what "we" want. The majority of fans are screaming for change, are the Sox listening? Do they even care about the fans voice? Do we have a voice?

Most probably really over estimate how much the sox take what from is said here. Its a fan message board, its a free source of consumer feedback. Nothing more. How the fans feel about players or coaches should not impact the team. That said, if the Kenny really needs WSI to know Ozzie is a bad manager or Walker is a bad hitting coach, then Kenny should not be a GM.

Its like Ozzie tells us 100 times a year, if you don't like him or the way he manages, don't go to the ball park. At some point, Jerry is going to be forced to make a decision, his wallet or his loyalty.

TomBradley72
07-22-2011, 05:50 PM
Why should attendance be good for the White Sox?

This is the 3rd disappointing/frustrating season in a row- if it wasn't for that great finish through #163 in 2008- this would be our 6th season in a row without making it the post season- and other than the 1st half of 2006- a mostly underperforming/disappointing team with very few "great runs/streaks" to excite the fan base.

hi im skot
07-22-2011, 06:09 PM
Why should attendance be good for the White Sox?

This is the 3rd disappointing/frustrating season in a row- if it wasn't for that great finish through #163 in 2008- this would be our 6th season in a row without making it the post season- and other than the 1st half of 2006- a mostly underperforming/disappointing team with very few "great runs/streaks" to excite the fan base.

Great finish is debatable. Yeah, the blackout game was the best single baseball game I've been to, but the week prior to that was dreadful.

GlassSox
07-22-2011, 06:54 PM
Great finish is debatable. Yeah, the blackout game was the best single baseball game I've been to, but the week prior to that was dreadful.

:thumbsup: