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Fenway
07-20-2011, 02:25 PM
A major thinktank in Ottawa looks hard at the future of baseball in Canada

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/reports/briefings/bigLeagues/briefing-6.aspx

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/nl/Olympi2.jpg

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2011, 04:03 PM
I think that baseball could work in Montreal if the Rays move there and manage to get a new stadium. I think that there is in fact a market for baseball in Montreal and having those dates with the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays would help attendance issues but a new stadium and a competitive team (like the Rays have) would also help.

Fenway
07-20-2011, 04:09 PM
I think that baseball could work in Montreal if the Rays move there and manage to get a new stadium. I think that there is in fact a market for baseball in Montreal and having those dates with the Yankees, Red Sox and Blue Jays would help attendance issues but a new stadium and a competitive team (like the Rays have) would also help.

I have no doubt Nos Amours could happen again - the damage done by the 1994 strike just created heartbroken fans

The final straw came when this player was traded for a bag of balls..

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/pedro-martinez-expos.jpg

amsteel
07-20-2011, 04:56 PM
I was a bona fide Expos fan for many years, so I would love to see a team return to Quebec.

The conundrum. mentioned in the article, is that no team want to move there without a stadium, and no one wants to build a stadium with a team. Not sure what the solution is, but I hope they figure it out. O Stadium was a dump, but maybe they play there for 2 years while a new park is being built. A downtown park would be sweet in MTL.

MeteorsSox4367
07-20-2011, 05:38 PM
I was a bona fide Expos fan for many years, so I would love to see a team return to Quebec.

The conundrum. mentioned in the article, is that no team want to move there without a stadium, and no one wants to build a stadium with a team. Not sure what the solution is, but I hope they figure it out. O Stadium was a dump, but maybe they play there for 2 years while a new park is being built. A downtown park would be sweet in MTL.

I, too, was an Expos fan. Gary Carter was one of my first favorite players. And the uniform worn by Pedro Martinez was way cool. Loved the solid blue hats, although the red-white-and-blue pinwheels also were cool.

I would love to see baseball back in Montreal.

Red Barchetta
07-20-2011, 06:45 PM
I, too, was an Expos fan. Gary Carter was one of my first favorite players. And the uniform worn by Pedro Martinez was way cool. Loved the solid blue hats, although the red-white-and-blue pinwheels also were cool.

I would love to see baseball back in Montreal.

I loved the Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, Tim Rains era Montreal uniforms! Even the red/white/blue hats looked good for the times. I liked the logo, the numbers and the red/blue piping on the jerseys and pants. One of my all-time favorite uniforms. Same with the original Blue Jay head uniforms in Toronto.

ComiskeyBrewer
07-20-2011, 08:07 PM
Fenway, is there any way that the team would be rebranded as the expos? Any other name just wouldn't seem right.

Hitmen77
07-21-2011, 12:27 PM
A major thinktank in Ottawa looks hard at the future of baseball in Canada

http://www.conferenceboard.ca/reports/briefings/bigLeagues/briefing-6.aspx

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/nl/Olympi2.jpg

In addition to being buried in the same division as MLB's two highest payroll teams, the problem with the Blue Jays is that their stadium is horribly outdated.

When Skydome opened, it was a "modern marvel". Once all the baseball-only, natural grass retro parks opened a few years later the stadium was no longer such a wonder for the Blue Jays.

I would love to see the day where all 30 MLB teams are playing in ballparks that are natural grass and built for baseball. There's been a lot of talk of doing something about the A's and Rays ballpark situation, but it sounds like the Blue Jays are going to be playing at the Rogers Centre for a long time to come.

Chez
07-21-2011, 12:48 PM
Montreal had its chance with the Expos and didn't seem all that interested. Look at the numbers. From 1998 through 2004 (the last 7 seasons in Montreal), the Expos' best season attendance average was 12,662. That was its best year during that stretch. During that time, there were 3 seasons the Expos averaged fewer than 10,000 fans per game. Perhaps there were extenuating circumstances, but the numbers don't lie. The citizens of Montreal didn't support their baseball team. Fantastic city, but they didn't support the Expos enough to keep them and there really is no evidence which suggests that Montreal deserves a second chance.

Fenway
07-21-2011, 01:08 PM
Fenway, is there any way that the team would be rebranded as the expos? Any other name just wouldn't seem right.

The Nationals own the history but have chosen to ignore it... I am sure that could be worked out.

There is some talk that the Jays want to move their Triple A team in Las Vegas to Montreal and Rogers has hinted building a stadium like the one in Buffalo that can be expanded to MLB standards quickly if a team shows up.

Rogers wouldn't own a MLB team in Montreal but they have a new French language sports channel that would happily carry a Montreal baseball team.

amsteel
07-21-2011, 01:22 PM
Montreal had its chance with the Expos and didn't seem all that interested. Look at the numbers. From 1998 through 2004 (the last 7 seasons in Montreal), the Expos' best season attendance average was 12,662. That was its best year during that stretch. During that time, there were 3 seasons the Expos averaged fewer than 10,000 fans per game. Perhaps there were extenuating circumstances, but the numbers don't lie. The citizens of Montreal didn't support their baseball team. Fantastic city, but they didn't support the Expos enough to keep them and there really is no evidence which suggests that Montreal deserves a second chance.

Selective statistics. Look at the early 1980s, the Expos were getting 2M plus a year when some team, including the Cubs were getting 1.2M.

When MLB ruins your team twice in 15 years ('94 strike and MLB assuming control in '01 and subsequently running the team into the ground) you wouldn't go to games either.

The key to success to a team in Montreal?: Give it a distinctly Quebecois feel. Quebecois love their sense of independence and identity. Appeal to that uniqueness and you'll have no problem. Also, Youppi! Without him you have nothing.

Milw
07-21-2011, 01:30 PM
Fantastic city, but they didn't support the Expos enough to keep them and there really is no evidence which suggests that Montreal deserves a second chance.
Here are the Expos' NL attendance ranks from 1977 to 1983:
6
7
4
4
3
3
2

I understand that was a long time ago, but the point is, there is a history of Montreal supporting baseball. It's not correct to say there is "no evidence" to give them another chance. Montreal certainly deserves a second chance more than Washington deserved a third (!) chance.

Put them in a nice stadium with a competitive team and you won't have an attendance problem. You can make that same statement for about 75% of the league's teams, including the White Sox.

Fenway
07-21-2011, 02:08 PM
Selective statistics. Look at the early 1980s, the Expos were getting 2M plus a year when some team, including the Cubs were getting 1.2M.

When MLB ruins your team twice in 15 years ('94 strike and MLB assuming control in '01 and subsequently running the team into the ground) you wouldn't go to games either.

The key to success to a team in Montreal?: Give it a distinctly Quebecois feel. Quebecois love their sense of independence and identity. Appeal to that uniqueness and you'll have no problem. Also, Youppi! Without him you have nothing.

I can remember summer afternoons in Montreal where you could walk down the street and follow the game as everybody was listening in either French or English.

Stade Olympique just crippled that franchise...it was in the wrong section of the town for where the fanbase was located..

http://johomaps.com/na/canada/quebec/montreal/montrealmetro1.jpg

The bulk of the Expos fanbase was located on the West Island - and the Stade was in the east end which is to this day very poor.

Then when the roof failed and was sealed shut it became very hot during the summer - the Stade did not have AC as it was supposed to be a retractable roof. People in Quebec have a very short summer and they didn't want to spend a lovely night INDOORS. The Stade also was not convenient to the expressway network and the Metro did not go into the anglo areas.

(Think of the White Sox building a new park at Devon and Lincoln)

The 1994 strike just broke the heart of the fanbase...and then seeing Pedro traded away for nothing just was too much.

Montreal did not fail baseball, baseball failed Montreal...

You have no idea how badly I want to hear the organist play this again..

ZjinbyfuuHA
YdWtRihBg4k

Don't ever try to tell me Montreal didn't love Nos Amours....
just watch these 2 videos
bFX92ALqxlk
5O8zR7owP-Q

Hitmen77
07-21-2011, 03:04 PM
Fenway, is there any way that the team would be rebranded as the expos? Any other name just wouldn't seem right.

I was never a big fan of the "Expos" name. Pretty weird sounding if you ask me. People used to always say "what the hell is an Expo?". Yeah, I know they were named after the 1967 world's fair, but it was still a weird name.

If MLB ever comes back to Montreal, maybe they can come up with a better name.

Fenway
07-21-2011, 03:12 PM
I was never a big fan of the "Expos" name. Pretty weird sounding if you ask me. People used to always say "what the hell is an Expo?". Yeah, I know they were named after the 1967 world's fair, but it was still a weird name.

If MLB ever comes back to Montreal, maybe they can come up with a better name.

They wanted Royals as the name but KC beat them to it..

The Expos name was coined by NY Daily News columnist Dick Young

Chez
07-21-2011, 04:41 PM
The 1994 strike just broke the heart of the fanbase...and then seeing Pedro traded away for nothing just was too much.

Montreal did not fail baseball, baseball failed Montreal...



Fens, I'm not buying that. The 1994 strike was hard on all fans -- including White Sox fans (who thought that 1994 was going to be the year)! Few fan bases haven't had their fair share of heart break -- including Red Sox fans. But most fan bases don't evaporate like the Expos fan base did the last 7 years of their existence. I'm sure there were passionate Expo fans when times were good in Montreal. Just not enough of them to sustain the franchise in bad times. If MLB wants to relocate a struggling franchise to Montreal, fine with me. Montreal is a great city. But I wouldn't blame MLB for not taking another chance in Montreal (and I agree with the poster who said D.C. didn't deserve a third shot).

Gavin
07-21-2011, 04:45 PM
I went to an Expos game in '04 against the Sox. Glad I went, cause there ain't ever gonna be an MLB scoreboard in French ever again.

Fenway
07-21-2011, 04:53 PM
Fens, I'm not buying that. The 1994 strike was hard on all fans -- including White Sox fans (who thought that 1994 was going to be the year)! Few fan bases haven't had their fair share of heart break -- including Red Sox fans. But most fan bases don't evaporate like the Expos fan base did the last 7 years of their existence. I'm sure there were passionate Expo fans when times were good in Montreal. Just not enough of them to sustain the franchise in bad times. If MLB wants to relocate a struggling franchise to Montreal, fine with me. Montreal is a great city. But I wouldn't blame MLB for not taking another chance in Montreal (and I agree with the poster who said D.C. didn't deserve a third shot).

TRUE - but throw in the firesale, ticket prices being raised 30 percent and other factors it quickly fell apart.

Th PR director going on radio saying French baseball fans are stupid didn't help either.

gogosox675
07-21-2011, 09:18 PM
I want to know more about the future of the Blue Jays. I feel like they've just been treading water for almost the past 20 years. Rogers Centre is obsolete compared to the ballparks built in the '90s and the beginning of the century. They're in the middle of the pack as far as attendance goes and I don't feel like they have much going for them other than Jose Bautista. How much longer can they go before the attendance and popularity really drops?

Lamp81
07-21-2011, 11:57 PM
Other than Montreal, is there another area in Canada that could support an MLB team? Montreal had a team, and let them go. Maybe give another area a chance. Isn't Ottawa close to Montreal? Maybe they could support a team. Or how about Vancouver?

I do know that since I became a White Sox fan, they have had their AAA team in the Canadian cities of Edmonton, Vancouver, and Calgary. Does Canada even still have MLB affiliated minor league teams anymore? I always loved seeing the Medicine Hat team on the back of baseball cards, when I was a kid.

Deadguy
07-22-2011, 12:14 AM
This article is somewhat dated, but it ranks the the top ten markets for expansion or relocation:

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2387&Itemid=42

None of them, including Montreal, look all that appealing for a number of reasons.

The best city on that list, IMO, is Charlotte. It has a nice Corporate presence and a large population base that won't cut into existing MLB fan bases.

Las Vegas is no longer appealing since the Great Recession destroyed that town. Even if it hadn't, boom towns such as that can not support a MLB franchise over a long period of time because it is made up of transplants who are fans of other teams (See Phoenix, Tampa, and Miami).

DSpivack
07-22-2011, 12:20 AM
This article is somewhat dated, but it ranks the the top ten markets for expansion or relocation:

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2387&Itemid=42

None of them, including Montreal, look all that appealing for a number of reasons.

The best city on that list, IMO, is Charlotte. It has a nice Corporate presence and a large population base that won't cut into existing MLB fan bases.

Las Vegas is no longer appealing since the Great Recession destroyed that town. Even if it hadn't, boom towns such as that can not support a MLB franchise over a long period of time because it is made up of transplants who are fans of other teams (See Phoenix, Tampa, and Miami).

From that list, I think only Northern New Jersey is a better option than Montreal. I think that ranking underestimates the city's population (it uses metro area figures for several cities, yet uses the city population for Montreal) as well as it's media market, with a large potential viewer base in RDS. Also, Canada's economic situation is much better than ours.

Deadguy
07-22-2011, 12:22 AM
Other than Montreal, is there another area in Canada that could support an MLB team? Montreal had a team, and let them go. Maybe give another area a chance. Isn't Ottawa close to Montreal? Maybe they could support a team. Or how about Vancouver?

Putting a MLB team in Vancouver would put Seattle in serious danger of losing the Mariners, so it is not a viable option. No other Canadian cities have the population base to support a Major League Baseball team.

I do know that since I became a White Sox fan, they have had their AAA team in the Canadian cities of Edmonton, Vancouver, and Calgary. Does Canada even still have MLB affiliated minor league teams anymore? I always loved seeing the Medicine Hat team on the back of baseball cards, when I was a kid.

Vancouver has a Short Season Single A team in the Northwest League (the Vancouver Canadians). That is the only Minor League baseball team in Canada affiliated with MLB. The rest are in Independent leagues.

Fenway
07-28-2011, 03:31 PM
A buzz is starting in Montreal

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Will+another+chance+with+Amours/5170338/story.html

HomeFish
07-28-2011, 05:55 PM
The Nationals own the history but have chosen to ignore it... I am sure that could be worked out.

The Nats seem downright hostile to the Expos history. I went to a Nats game this year and there were two kids dressed from head to toe in Expos gear, with their faces painted blue, and carrying signs that said "LET'S GO EXPOS".

They had a front row seat behind third base and were standing up and cheering all game long. They never once made it onto the jumbotron. Meanwhile, multiple couples in Phillies gear were featured on the kiss cam (and it was a game against the Padres).

boiker
07-28-2011, 07:18 PM
Even if it hadn't, boom towns such as that can not support a MLB franchise over a long period of time because it is made up of transplants who are fans of other teams (See Phoenix,

Arizona has a pretty strong fan base and despite the number of transplants out here, the home team always draws the bigger crowd. It helped that they won the WS in '01.

DumpJerry
07-28-2011, 08:01 PM
New York can support a third team. It has done it before.

Fenway
08-01-2011, 02:13 PM
A Montreal Gazette editorial ( August 1st)

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Editorial+Expos+return+pipe+dream/5187560/story.html

and a columnist

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Jack+Todd+return+Expos/5187587/story.html

Fenway
08-08-2011, 11:37 AM
Former owner of Expos says as long as Bud Selig runs baseball - Montreal won't get a team

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Expos+Brochu+says+infighting+behind+team+demise/5201233/story.html

Hitmen77
08-08-2011, 11:42 AM
Former owner of Expos says as long as Bud Selig runs baseball - Montreal won't get a team

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Expos+Brochu+says+infighting+behind+team+demise/5201233/story.html

I thought Selig was retiring next year? :dunno:

Deadguy
08-13-2011, 03:02 PM
Arizona has a pretty strong fan base and despite the number of transplants out here, the home team always draws the bigger crowd. It helped that they won the WS in '01.


You may be right, but last night they only drew 25,000 fans. That's a first place club drawing 3,000 fewer fans that a sub .500 Cincinnati club, 6,000 less than a 2nd place Cleveland squad, and only 3,000 more than the reeling Florida Marlins.

Phoenix has a metropolitan population of 4.4 million which is at least twice as large as any of the alternative markets that have been mentioned in this thread, with the exception of Montreal or a third NY team.

Baseball may not be floundering in Phoenix the way it is in Tampa or Oakland, but it's hardly flourishing there. This makes the idea of relocating to cities like San Antonio, Las Vegas, or Portland all the less feasible as being able to support a team beyond the honeymoon period.

I personally think MLB's future is not in North America, but maybe Tokyo and other Japanese cities. For a long time, St Louis had the team(s) that were the farthest to the west and the south, until transportation improved to the point where you could have MLB in Los Angeles, San Franciso, and Seattle, so the Far East may be the place to look as the next frontier for MLB.

When you look at the largest MSAs, keeping in mind that you probably need 2.5 million to support a MLB franchise, there are already teams in those markets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Ar eas

When you start looking at alternatives like Las Vegas, San Antonio, etc. look very unattractive as relocation alternatives. The only cities I see as having potential are Charlotte and maybe the Raleigh-Durham area. These are areas with large corporate presences that will court potential clients with the ability to write off "meals and entertainment" expenses on their 1120s. However, even these cities don't seem viable for at least a couple of decades.