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View Full Version : *Official* 7-19 Walkerball BABIP is a Royal pain in the neck, KC 4 SOX 2 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
07-19-2011, 10:38 PM
Peavy wasn't great, but it technically was a "quality start." Quality starts should be wins, especially against the worst pitching staff in the league.

This team is running out of excuses and running out of time.

If they fail to make the playoffs, Ozzie, KW and Walker need to go away.

amsteel
07-19-2011, 10:40 PM
Another winnable game lost by the offense. Welcome to 2011.

Crestani
07-19-2011, 10:42 PM
Another winnable game lost by the offense. Welcome to 2011.


Same old **** since April.

Brian26
07-19-2011, 10:43 PM
Seriously, these are games the 2005 and 2006 Sox would have scored 10 or 12 runs. Absolutely miserable. That last Flowers at bat was brutal. He took the first pitch because he walked up to the plate determined to take the first pitch no matter what (strike 1). He's down in the count 0-1, so he makes up his mind to swing at the second pitch no matter where it is, so he goes through a curve ball about chin height (strike 2). He's down 0-2 with no clue, a strike zone as big as Texas, and gets rung up on an inside fastball at the knees.

JermaineDye05
07-19-2011, 10:43 PM
Blow it up.

Frater Perdurabo
07-19-2011, 10:45 PM
Seriously, these are games the 2005 and 2006 Sox would have scored 10 or 12 runs. Absolutely miserable. That last Flowers at bat was brutal. He took the first pitch because he walked up to the plate determined to take the first pitch no matter what (strike 1). He's down in the count 0-1, so he makes up his mind to swing at the second pitch no matter where it is, so he goes through a curve ball about chin height (strike 2). He's down 0-2 with no clue, a strike zone as big as Texas, and gets rung up on an inside fastball at the knees.

The 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009 and 2010 Sox also would have scored more runs.

Crestani
07-19-2011, 10:47 PM
Seriously, these are games the 2005 and 2006 Sox would have scored 10 or 12 runs. Absolutely miserable. That last Flowers at bat was brutal. He took the first pitch because he walked up to the plate determined to take the first pitch no matter what (strike 1). He's down in the count 0-1, so he makes up his mind to swing at the second pitch no matter where it is, so he goes through a curve ball about chin height (strike 2). He's down 0-2 with no clue, a strike zone as big as Texas, and gets rung up on an inside fastball at the knees.


The funny thing is right now the only one that looks dangerous up there is Pierre, and that is real scary...!!!

PalehosePlanet
07-19-2011, 10:57 PM
The sad thing is that between the Flowers lineout in the 3rd or 4th inning and Gordo's liner back up the middle in the 9th we did not hit one ball hard.

Against the worst staff in the league we had Rios w/2 hard hit balls, the Flowers lineout, Gordo'd single and AJ's GIDP to end the game. That's a grand total of 5 hard hit balls ALL NIGHT.

As others have stated, this should be the last hurrah for this staff and management team. I don't want Hahn either, bring in an outsider to re-evaluate the entire team and organization with fresh eyes.

SoxSpeed22
07-19-2011, 11:03 PM
So score early, and then pack it in is the new MO.
Same results though.

Lorenzo Barcelo
07-19-2011, 11:11 PM
I think it says something that we only have 8 posts after a loss 30 minutes later. Apathy.

Lip Man 1
07-19-2011, 11:12 PM
What can I say folks...another garbage pitcher, another pitcher the Sox haven't seen before...another trash pitcher with a high ERA...and after the first inning (yet again) he makes the Sox hitters look like buffoons.

It's not a "myth" fans, not when it happens so many times. It's reality.

Lip

Viva Medias B's
07-19-2011, 11:17 PM
Just got back from Kauffman. The game was just a carbon copy of losses we have seen this year. In order to be a truly good team, we have to pound the weak sisters like the Royals. We have now lost 4 of 7 to them, if I'm not mistaken.

captain54
07-19-2011, 11:17 PM
the Sox are 4 1/2 games back and it feels like 40 1/2

Viva Medias B's
07-19-2011, 11:18 PM
If we win the AL Central, it'll be because Detroit and Cleveland outstink us.

Lip Man 1
07-19-2011, 11:21 PM
You know since about 2003 the Sox have lost a bunch of games to some of the worst pitchers in MLB (at that particular time) but really they seem to do outdoing even themselves this year...

In particular the past few weeks: Lopez, Paulino, Chen, Swarback (or whatever his name is) and tonight this stiff who was sent to the minor leagues earlier this season.

And what amazes me even more is that there are fans who still don't think there's a fundamental problem with this organization.

:?:

Lip

BainesHOF
07-19-2011, 11:23 PM
What does it say about the team when it scores early and then shuts down for the rest of the game? Passive? Lazy? Gutless?

The season didn't have to be like this. Management is responsible for not trying to fix anything.

DirtySox
07-19-2011, 11:24 PM
You know since about 2003 the Sox have lost a bunch of games to some of the worst pitchers in MLB (at that particular time) but really they seem to do outdoing even themselves this year...

In particular the past few weeks: Lopez, Paulino, Chen, Swarback (or whatever his name is) and tonight this stiff who was sent to the minor leagues earlier this season.

And what amazes me even more is that there are fans who still don't think there's a fundamental problem with this organization.

:?:

Lip

Duffy wasn't horrible tonight. He's actually a very highly regarded prospect. Expect much more of this in the future, especially when he's better acclimated to the majors.

Viva Medias B's
07-19-2011, 11:27 PM
Was that a quick postgame show on the Score tonight? I am listening to the Score via my laptop in my KC hotel room acorss the street from Kauffman. Usually, Ranger goes for an hour after the game ends. Tonight, I think he just did 30 minutes. Maybe he's had enough of the same dumb callers after losses.

Hendu
07-19-2011, 11:29 PM
Nice to know that every time I think they're starting to turn the corner, they fall back to the norm. At least they probably won't trick KW into being a buyer before showing their true colors.

I agree with Captain54. How we are only 4.5 games back is just crazy. This division is pathetic.

Lip Man 1
07-19-2011, 11:35 PM
Dirty:

With all due respect that may be true in the future. As for the here and now he's got a losing record and a high ERA. He was sent back down to try to correct issues.....obviously he did tonight (but that doesn't mean he's worth a damn right now...look who he was pitching against! LOL)

But then given the Cy Young - All Star caliber pitchers the Sox have rolled over and died to, I guess no one should have been surprised by what happened.

------------------------------------------------

Here the sickening stat of the night, folks:

The three worst teams in the American League percentage wise are: Kansas City (.402), Baltimore (.415) and Oakland (.433)

The Sox record against those three teams combined is: 10-11

Kansas City: 3-4
Baltimore: 1-3
Oakland 6-4

4-7 against the two worst teams in the A.L.

Unbelievable

Lip

DrCrawdad
07-19-2011, 11:36 PM
What can I say folks...another garbage pitcher, another pitcher the Sox haven't seen before...another trash pitcher with a high ERA...and after the first inning (yet again) he makes the Sox hitters look like buffoons.

It's not a "myth" fans, not when it happens so many times. It's reality.

Lip

I thought the Sox had faced Duffy another time this season.

Lip Man 1
07-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Crawdad:

I honestly don't know. I read a blurb today in one of the Chicago newspapers that said they haven't.

:?:

Lip

HaroMaster87
07-19-2011, 11:37 PM
Peavy wasn't great, but it technically was a "quality start." Quality starts should be wins, especially against the worst pitching staff in the league.

This team is running out of excuses and running out of time.

If they fail to make the playoffs, Ozzie, KW and Walker need to go away.

So i guess everytime they lose, its walkers fault in your world, huh?

Find a new argument...

DirtySox
07-19-2011, 11:38 PM
I thought the Sox had faced Duffy another time this season.

Nope.

Lip Man 1
07-19-2011, 11:42 PM
Haro:

The Sox since the start of the 2007 season have brought in a boatload of different players from different organizations, with different skill sets and different levels of experience.

Kenny, Ozzie and Walker have been one of the few constants in the ensuing five seasons.

The players have some responsibility BUT the current management and field staffs appear to have more...it seems like a lot of players have "issues" when they try to play for the Sox that they don't seem to have with their other clubs.

Maybe you can explain it.

Lip

Lip Man 1
07-19-2011, 11:44 PM
Baines:

To answer your question, I'd say mentally weak (i.e. unable to make in game adjustments for example...)

Lip

JB98
07-19-2011, 11:46 PM
Whenever the Sox face a left-handed starter, I cringe.

Whenever the Sox face a rookie, I cringe.

Whenever the Sox face somebody with a high ERA, I cringe.

I just know in my heart they are going to fail. Team stinks. If the AL Central were a real division, they'd be dead and buried.

What's really sad is the Sox can't beat the other bad teams in this division.

DickAllen72
07-19-2011, 11:47 PM
Since Viciedo has cooled down after the All Star break and participating in the AAA home run derby, the Sox will probably call him up while he's cold and Ozzie will have him on a short leash just waiting for him to fail.

This team needs some offense from somewhere. It's long overdue. They are letting this season slip away because they have been stubbornly resisting making any changes to the lineup or roster.

DickAllen72
07-19-2011, 11:48 PM
The Sox since the start of the 2007 season have brought in a boatload of different players from different organizations, with different skill sets and different levels of experience.

Kenny, Ozzie and Walker have been one of the few constants in the ensuing five seasons.

The players have some responsibility BUT the current management and field staffs appear to have more...it seems like a lot of players have "issues" when they try to play for the Sox that they don't seem to have with their other clubs.

Lip
All good points.

shingo10
07-19-2011, 11:50 PM
If the Sox don't win tomorrow then it's lights out on this season.

If you can't win a series against the pathetic Royals and you can't win a series against the Twins then there is no chance in winning this division.

If we lose tomorrow I hope that we start unloading.

HaroMaster87
07-20-2011, 12:03 AM
Haro:

The Sox since the start of the 2007 season have brought in a boatload of different players from different organizations, with different skill sets and different levels of experience.

Kenny, Ozzie and Walker have been one of the few constants in the ensuing five seasons.

The players have some responsibility BUT the current management and field staffs appear to have more...it seems like a lot of players have "issues" when they try to play for the Sox that they don't seem to have with their other clubs.

Maybe you can explain it.

Lip

My opinion is the whole thing needs a cleansing...I couldn't care less if walker stays or goes. I believe it makes pretty much no difference. I think we get veterans that just get here and want to coast...no one seems to have that drive when they get here. I think the whole atmosphere around the organization needs to be different.

guillensdisciple
07-20-2011, 12:06 AM
If the Sox don't win tomorrow then it's lights out on this season.

If you can't win a series against the pathetic Royals and you can't win a series against the Twins then there is no chance in winning this division.

If we lose tomorrow I hope that we start unloading.


Dude they lost to the Royals two weeks ago, honestly the division was lost in the last 7 game home stand.

we're 5-7 overall on the 19 game stretch and the only way I can justify this team is if they go on a 7 game winning streak. If not, well you know the deal.

The good news is the guy you pay 56 million a year was sitting against a Lefty who never dominated anyone in his career. That's money well spent right there.

HaroMaster87
07-20-2011, 12:09 AM
And i dont care what anyone says about Peavy having a "quality start"...against the ****ing royals??? You dont pay a guy 16mil for that. He should DOMINATE the royals...theres soooo much dead money on this team. They are so screwed...

mccoydp
07-20-2011, 12:17 AM
I can't believe that I sat through this whole game. Typical garbage, but on a different night.

Go get them tomorrow, Sox!

guillensdisciple
07-20-2011, 12:26 AM
And i dont care what anyone says about Peavy having a "quality start"...against the ****ing royals??? You dont pay a guy 16mil for that. He should DOMINATE the royals...theres soooo much dead money on this team. They are so screwed...

He's still a dirtbag regardless of what you say so HA!

tstrike2000
07-20-2011, 12:27 AM
If we win the AL Central, it'll be because Detroit and Cleveland outstink us.

Unfortunately, it could be like every other year. Minnesota will march out there a AAA team and probably win this division.

johnnyg83
07-20-2011, 12:29 AM
He was sent back down to try to correct issues.....obviously he did tonight

I don't recall him being sent down this season after they called him up. They talked about it when Davies and Chen came back but they sent someone else.

BainesHOF
07-20-2011, 12:32 AM
Haro:

The Sox since the start of the 2007 season have brought in a boatload of different players from different organizations, with different skill sets and different levels of experience.

Kenny, Ozzie and Walker have been one of the few constants in the ensuing five seasons.

The players have some responsibility BUT the current management and field staffs appear to have more...it seems like a lot of players have "issues" when they try to play for the Sox that they don't seem to have with their other clubs.

Maybe you can explain it.

Lip

The organization is disfunctional. Its management is just wound far too tightly and that winds up extending all the way down to the players. Heck, even our pitching coach and announcers are wound too tightly. Our manager tries to talk a good game, but he has rabbit ears and thin skin. Plus there's been far too energy and attention devoted to being at odds with each other (Guillen vs. Williams). That needs to be poured into beating the opposition.

I don't see one real, smart leader in the organization. There needs to be one.

StillMissOzzie
07-20-2011, 12:40 AM
What can I say folks...another garbage pitcher, another pitcher the Sox haven't seen before...another trash pitcher with a high ERA...and after the first inning (yet again) he makes the Sox hitters look like buffoons.

It's not a "myth" fans, not when it happens so many times. It's reality.

Lip

Yep, another case of the Sox giving some jamoke of a pitcher his season's best game.

SMO
:(:

Mohoney
07-20-2011, 12:44 AM
Meh. Peavy was given a 2-0 lead and pissed it away.

Sometimes, you need to win a game 2-0 or 2-1.

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 12:51 AM
Meh. Peavy was given a 2-0 lead and pissed it away.

Sometimes, you need to win a game 2-0 or 2-1.

:rolleyes:

tstrike2000
07-20-2011, 12:56 AM
Meh. Peavy was given a 2-0 lead and pissed it away.

Sometimes, you need to win a game 2-0 or 2-1.

Damn you Peavy for not throwing a shutout! :angry:

HaroMaster87
07-20-2011, 01:09 AM
Damn you Peavy for not throwing a shutout! :angry:

he's being paid 16mil...is it too much to ask to out pitch a rookie pitching for a last place team...in your own freaking division???

hawkjt
07-20-2011, 01:10 AM
I don't know nor care what Duffy has done in the past,his stuff was electric tonite. Far better than Peavy's stuff. He was throwing 95-96 mph on the corners,and down low. His breaking ball was nasty.

The Sox should have a better offense but Duffy was not garbage tonite.
I wish that Jake had his old fastball of 95 mph like when he was young like Duffy.

I watched some of Masterson vs the Twins tonite...that guy also has great stuff,shutting out the twins for 8 innings.

The Sox staff used to have better stuff than the rest of the division...now,not so much. Verlander,Masterson,Carasco,Duffy are all younger guys that throw harder than any of our guys.

I am convinced that the division has just seen the Sox pitchers too many times....they know them like a book. KC definitely hits Sox starters well.
Guys like Treynor and Cabrera and Butler just feast off of Sox pitching.

Saw Zadrubel Cabrera come up vs the Twins tonite with the bases loaded...he was 6 for 6 this season in bases loaded situations...the Twins held him to a sac fly,but still, it really dawned on me that the Sox are so unclutch,while guys like Cabrera is hitting 1.000 with bases loaded this season...arrrgh.

I feel like Ozzie needs to have a quick trigger in the 6th. Should have pulled Humber on Sunday in the 6th when Sox only needed one out to win the game 3-1 and again tonite,pull Peavy while the Sox have the lead...win the game!

Lilly hurt us this game. He has totally lost his swing.

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 01:23 AM
he's being paid 16mil...is it too much to ask to out pitch a rookie pitching for a last place team...in your own freaking division???

Is it too much to ask the offense to get more than 2 runs off of a rookie pitching for a last place team in their own freaking division?

HaroMaster87
07-20-2011, 01:30 AM
Is it too much to ask the offense to get more than 2 runs off of a rookie pitching for a last place team in their own freaking division?

Have you been watching all year? The answer to your question is yes...it is.

JB98
07-20-2011, 01:32 AM
he's being paid 16mil...is it too much to ask to out pitch a rookie pitching for a last place team...in your own freaking division???

There's no question the White Sox need less talk and more production from Peavy.

But still, three runs over six innings is hardly a horrible start. Kansas City is not a bad offensive team. They are sixth in the A.L. in runs scored, I believe. Peavy's start tonight was only slightly worse than what Buehrle gave the Sox last night, and last night's game was a winner.

The Royals stink because their pitching stinks. Other teams take advantage of KC's poor pitching. The Sox do not. That's the moral of the story.

Foulke You
07-20-2011, 01:33 AM
Lilly hurt us this game. He has totally lost his swing.
I think the league has figured out that he can't hit a curve ball. He will continue to see a steady diet of that until he shows that he can put one in play. To be fair to Lillibridge, this is also the first game he started since July 4th if memory serves. He definitely was bad tonight though.

Mohoney
07-20-2011, 01:33 AM
:rolleyes:

The same exact reaction I have when Peavy opens his mouth.

$16 million pitchers hold leads against last place teams.

JB98
07-20-2011, 01:36 AM
The same exact reaction I have when Peavy opens his mouth.

$16 million pitchers hold leads against last place teams.

Buehrle let a 2-0 lead slip last night. Does he suck also?

Only difference between tonight and last night: The Sox offense showed up last night and put more runs on the board. Tonight, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 01:36 AM
The same exact reaction I have when Peavy opens his mouth.

$16 million pitchers hold leads against last place teams.

Carlos Zambrano says hello.

Just because he's getting paid a lot of money doesn't mean he's automatically going to shut out everyone he pitches against.

Foulke You
07-20-2011, 01:36 AM
There's no question the White Sox need less talk and more production from Peavy.

But still, three runs over six innings is hardly a horrible start. Kansas City is not a bad offensive team. They are sixth in the A.L. in runs scored, I believe. Peavy's start tonight was only slightly worse than what Buehrle gave the Sox last night, and last night's game was a winner.

The Royals stink because their pitching stinks. Other teams take advantage of KC's poor pitching. The Sox do not. That's the moral of the story.
Good post. Other teams can overcome one poor inning from their starter. Having merely a solid start as Peavy did tonight is not good enough for this offense. You need to be absolutely stellar like Buehrle was on Monday. Did anyone feel like we were going to come back as soon as Peavy gave up the lead? 3-2 in the 6th and I felt the Sox were teetering. The Melky Cabrera HR was the final nail in the coffin. It's a sad state of affairs that a 2 run deficit against KC with several innings to go seems insurmountable.

Mohoney
07-20-2011, 01:46 AM
Buehrle let a 2-0 lead slip last night. Does he suck also?

He also never let the Royals take the lead. Totally different mindset having a 2-2 tie and being down 3-2.

Anybody that watches this team knows how they press when they're behind.

Mohoney
07-20-2011, 01:47 AM
Carlos Zambrano says hello.

Just because he's getting paid a lot of money doesn't mean he's automatically going to shut out everyone he pitches against.

Jim Hendry threw stupid money at a lot of people that suck. Way to pigeonhole.

I suppose your next example will be Ryan Dempster, who is also nowhere near worth what he gets paid.

JB98
07-20-2011, 01:50 AM
He also never let the Royals take the lead. Totally different mindset having a 2-2 tie and being down 3-2.

Anybody that watches this team knows how they press when they're behind.

That's not the pitcher's fault.

These guys are being asked to throw shutouts far too often. I agree the Sox need more from Peavy, but tonight was not a bad start. It was an average one.

HaroMaster87
07-20-2011, 02:06 AM
That's not the pitcher's fault.

These guys are being asked to throw shutouts far too often. I agree the Sox need more from Peavy, but tonight was not a bad start. It was an average one.

And when was the last time he actually was dominate (other than his few innings of relief)? Not nearly often enough for all the b.s. that goes along with him. The injuries, the whining, the rah-rah crap, the excuses...this guy annoys the crap out of me...someone who plays like him and makes the money he makes should be invisible. Look at how invisible Rios is. You never see or hear from him ever. The only thing annoying about him is how bad he sucks, but at least we arent forced to consume all the other crap...

Mohoney
07-20-2011, 02:13 AM
That's not the pitcher's fault.

These guys are being asked to throw shutouts far too often.

IMO, there is a difference between being asked to throw a shutout and being asked to not blow a 2 run lead. He had run support in the early innings and squandered it. Then it reverted to the same story we see every time this team falls behind. Impatience at the plate, swinging for the fences, and NEVER staging a comeback against bad relievers.

By now, the pitching staff knows that this offense is TOTALLY INCAPABLE of recapturing a lead. Therefore, every time this pitching staff squanders a lead needs to be considered a failure.

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 02:17 AM
IMO, there is a difference between being asked to throw a shutout and being asked to not blow a 2 run lead. He had run support in the early innings and squandered it. Then it reverted to the same story we see every time this team falls behind. Impatience at the plate, swinging for the fences, and NEVER staging a comeback against bad relievers.

By now, the pitching staff knows that this offense is TOTALLY INCAPABLE of recapturing a lead. Therefore, every time this pitching staff squanders a lead needs to be considered a failure.

No, it doesn't.

captain54
07-20-2011, 02:20 AM
My opinion is the whole thing needs a cleansing...I couldn't care less if walker stays or goes. I believe it makes pretty much no difference. I think we get veterans that just get here and want to coast...no one seems to have that drive when they get here. I think the whole atmosphere around the organization needs to be different.

Here's something to consider, folks..

The Royals have the lowest payroll in MLB... somewhere in the vicinity of 25% of the White Sox payroll...and yet, the Sox have a losing record against them.

Three WS players...Dunn, Peavy, and Rios earn more than the ENTIRE KC roster.

somethin' ain't right

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 02:22 AM
Here's something to consider, folks..

They Royals have the lowest payroll in MLB... somewhere in the vicinity of 25% of the White Sox payroll...and yet, the Sox have a losing record against them.

Three WS players...Dunn, Peavey, and Rios earn more than the ENTIRE KC roster.

somethin' ain't right

Yeah, your spelling of Peavy.

:tongue:

hawkjt
07-20-2011, 02:22 AM
Peavy threw at least 3 meatballs right down the middle that Butler,Franceaur and Treynor hit hard in the 6th. That was more than Duffy threw all nite. Peavys were at 89,while Duffys were at 95.

thomas35forever
07-20-2011, 02:25 AM
Couldn't watch this on TV since the power went out at my house, but I heard it on the radio. Glad I couldn't see it.

Tragg
07-20-2011, 02:31 AM
Peavy was okay; we didn't trade talent and take on a massive salary for okay. He needs to "step it up" to say the least.

So does our O, but that's howling at the moon.

Iron Dragon2
07-20-2011, 02:50 AM
So let's see, we're going to rip our $16M/yr pitcher because he didn't hold a nearly insurmountable lead of TWO runs, gave up 3 total, while the offense didn't do **** over the last 8 innings? Yep, makes sense to me.....

At this point, isn't anything the Sox get from Peavy really just a bonus this season? It still takes NFL players basically 2 years to recover from a torn ACL, shouldn't the same latitude be extended in this situation considering the nature of Peavy's injury? Anytime he takes the mound and his arm doesn't explode or he resembes a MLB pitcher, I'm pretty happy.....THIS season.

Dan H
07-20-2011, 02:57 AM
I didn't see enough of the game to know how good the KC starter was. But anyone who keeps trying to say the other pitcher was great when this team can't score more than three runs in a game remains in denial. The 2011 White Sox just don't have it. We keep waiting for a hot streak that never happens.

Decisive needs to be taken now. Fire Ozzie. Become sellers at the trade deadline and make whatever deals you can. It it's not time to rebuild the team, it's time to reshape it.

HaroMaster87
07-20-2011, 03:07 AM
So let's see, we're going to rip our $16M/yr pitcher because he didn't hold a nearly insurmountable lead of TWO runs, gave up 3 total, while the offense didn't do **** over the last 8 innings? Yep, makes sense to me.....

At this point, isn't anything the Sox get from Peavy really just a bonus this season? It still takes NFL players basically 2 years to recover from a torn ACL, shouldn't the same latitude be extended in this situation considering the nature of Peavy's injury? Anytime he takes the mound and his arm doesn't explode or he resembes a MLB pitcher, I'm pretty happy.....THIS season.

Then maybe he should be honest with the media, quit the rah rah bull**** and just tell the truth. If hes still recovering then ****ing admit it and quit talking about intensity while making excuses for so-so performances...

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 03:14 AM
Then maybe he should be honest with the media, quit the rah rah bull**** and just tell the truth. If hes still recovering then ****ing admit it and quit talking about intensity while making excuses for so-so performances...

He's only just following his manager.

Mohoney
07-20-2011, 04:07 AM
Peavy threw at least 3 meatballs right down the middle that Butler,Franceaur and Treynor hit hard in the 6th. That was more than Duffy threw all nite. Peavys were at 89,while Duffys were at 95.

This. Peavy sucked tonight.

doublem23
07-20-2011, 05:50 AM
Here's something to consider, folks..

The Royals have the lowest payroll in MLB... somewhere in the vicinity of 25% of the White Sox payroll...and yet, the Sox have a losing record against them.

Three WS players...Dunn, Peavy, and Rios earn more than the ENTIRE KC roster.

somethin' ain't right

Yes, you're right, I would certainly love to trade places with the 20-games under .500 Royals!

doublem23
07-20-2011, 05:52 AM
He's only just following his manager.

Oh god, don't blame Ozzie for this ****. Peavy is an adult who shouldn't need to be treated like a 3-year-old.

Lots of blame to go around tonight, but Jake gets his fair share. He sucks. I really don't expect the Sox to win more than 1/4 of his remaining starts at this point. All bark and no bite.

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 06:02 AM
Oh god, don't blame Ozzie for this ****. Peavy is an adult who shouldn't need to be treated like a 3-year-old.

Lots of blame to go around tonight, but Jake gets his fair share. He sucks. I really don't expect the Sox to win more than 1/4 of his remaining starts at this point. All bark and no bite.

I wasn't blaming Ozzie.

I was merely pointing out that our manager happens to have the exact same problem. I think Ozzie is a bigger problem than Peavy at this point.

doublem23
07-20-2011, 06:14 AM
I wasn't blaming Ozzie.

I was merely pointing out that our manager happens to have the exact same problem. I think Ozzie is a bigger problem than Peavy at this point.

Having to choose between which is more worthless, Ozzie or Peavy, is like asking if you'd rather get punched in the jaw or punched in the nose. Both are losers.

Frater Perdurabo
07-20-2011, 06:39 AM
Having to choose between which is more worthless, Ozzie or Peavy, is like asking if you'd rather get punched in the jaw or punched in the nose. Both are losers.

And Walker is like getting kicked in the nuts. Repeatedly.

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 06:41 AM
And Walker is like getting kicked in the nuts. Repeatedly.

While listening to "Friday" on repeat.

doublem23
07-20-2011, 06:52 AM
And Walker is like getting kicked in the nuts. Repeatedly.

Walker is a level of torture that would make the people at the Spanish Inquisition blush.

JermaineDye05
07-20-2011, 07:47 AM
Walker is a level of torture that would make the people at the Spanish Inquisition blush.

Raiders of the Lost Ark has a pretty good representation of the effects of Greg Walker's hitting instruction.

veeter
07-20-2011, 07:51 AM
Peavy pitched great. For a Guy who has no body left, Jake battles. His salary should have nothing to do with how he's critiqued. He was damaged goods when Kenny got him. I'm just sick that Giovanni Gonzalez and Dan Hudson are gone. And Peavy, free agents to be Edwin Jackson and Buehrle are here. John Danks won't sign a contract and the worst pitcher of them all, Gavin Floyd, is locked up. What a mess. The offensive doesn't even deserve mention.

Hitmen77
07-20-2011, 08:33 AM
This team is running out of excuses and running out of time.
Does that mean it isn't "still early" any more?

If they fail to make the playoffs, Ozzie, KW and Walker need to go away.

They won't. None of this mess is their responsibility. I expect the Sox to slash payroll next year but keep the same management team in place that has brought us the last 5 years of mediocrity (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=3646).

Hitmen77
07-20-2011, 08:43 AM
What can I say folks...another garbage pitcher, another pitcher the Sox haven't seen before...another trash pitcher with a high ERA...and after the first inning (yet again) he makes the Sox hitters look like buffoons.

It's not a "myth" fans, not when it happens so many times. It's reality.

Lip

WRONG! It is a myth! The next time the Sox have one good game against some unaccomplished clown, some posters will come out to tell us that it's proof that games like this are all in our heads.

Who was that WSI poster that used to have in his signature the list of lousy pitchers who looked like Cy Young candidates vs. the Sox? He had a long list last year and this year is no different.

Carolina Kenny
07-20-2011, 08:44 AM
Peavy was hurt when we acquired him.

He is damaged goods and no longer a Cy Young quality pitcher.

He may be slightly better than league average and a number 3 or 4 at the very best.

This was a terrible signing by Williams, and reason enough to launch him.

The problem with this organization is Kenny Williams. Dunn, Rios, Peavy all big money down the drain.

Uncle Jerry, please wake up if you want another Championship before you get too old.

October26
07-20-2011, 08:53 AM
:angry::D::(::whiner::mad::bandance::scratch::o: UGH. <--- These represent my feelings regarding the 2011 White sox.

Risk
07-20-2011, 09:29 AM
Last night was just a terrible game to watch. Peavy wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible either. The offense though is so bad right now that they can swing and they'll even miss the air.

Risk

October26
07-20-2011, 09:48 AM
Last night was just a terrible game to watch. Peavy wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible either. The offense though is so bad right now that they can swing and they'll even miss the air.

Risk

Isn't this the truth! I kept screaming at my tv last night in either english/spanish - Get a hit: [Insert player's name here]! With every day that passes and every loss, I realize that this will be another lost White sox season. And then apathy starts to set in.

I also see the records of the elite teams in the AL and I know in my heart that the Sox are not one of them. Such a waste of talent on the 2011 White sox team and as others have said, management is too stubborn to make any changes.

And where is Kenny Williams to offer guidance and direction for this franchise's future? UGH - so depressing.

slavko
07-20-2011, 10:16 AM
Peavy was hurt when we acquired him.

He is damaged goods and no longer a Cy Young quality pitcher.

He may be slightly better than league average and a number 3 or 4 at the very best.

This was a terrible signing by Williams, and reason enough to launch him.

The problem with this organization is Kenny Williams. Dunn, Rios, Peavy all big money down the drain.

Uncle Jerry, please wake up if you want another Championship before you get too old.

Jerry sees the handwriting on the wall if he has a shred of sense. He's not getting another championship. For someone who the lot of you think is a great businessman, he's let himself be talked into trying to buy another one and the team is locked into a financial mess.

I don't think he's much of a businessman, just an aging, sentimental baseball fan who's let the thing get out of control. The solution? There isn't one, certainly not throwing more money at it. A fresh start without Kenny is not going to be easy for an aging, sentimental baseball fan who may not have it in him to launch him.

It's certainly not going to be easy for us.

hawkjt
07-20-2011, 10:36 AM
Peavy is coming back from a horrible injury so I guess we have to cut him slack...he was not bad last nite,just gave it up late.

They were citing some stats this morning where his batting average against zooms up over .400 after pitch 80 or so...which is where he was in the 6th inning. I think Ozzie has to have a very short leash for awhile with Jake and some other starters in this crucial stretch. If they do not get back in it,who cares if the bullpen is depleted in Sept? If they use them to win Sunday in the 6th vs the Tigers and last nite,they might be 2.5 back.

The last 60 game sprint has begun,Ozzie,and really it is a 40 game sprint to get back in this,cus after mid-sept,it will probably be set in stone.
Sox have got to win games,however they can,and add more bullpen arms when needed....no time for molly-coddling our starters.

Procol Harum
07-20-2011, 10:40 AM
Peavy is coming back from a horrible injury so I guess we have to cut him slack...he was not bad last nite,just gave it up late.


Agreed--if the Sox would deviate from their standard game "script"--score a run or two in the early innings and then shut down their offense for the rest of the game (often against pitchers who everyone else seems to eat alive)--he just might've walked away with a victory.

The White Sox: the team responsible for keeping so many bad pitchers' era's from going into orbit...

TheOldRoman
07-20-2011, 11:22 AM
Peavy was hurt when we acquired him.Your point being? He had a broken ****ing ankle when the Sox acquired him. That is something which heals with no lingering effects. It isn't like they traded for a guy with known back or knee problems.

He is damaged goods and no longer a Cy Young quality pitcher.No. He is not Cy Young quality right now because he is admittedly still recovering from the detached lat.

He may be slightly better than league average and a number 3 or 4 at the very best.No. Now? Maybe. Next year? He should be back to full force.

This was a terrible signing by Williams, and reason enough to launch him.No. Jake Peavy never signed a contract with the White Sox.

The problem with this organization is Kenny Williams. Dunn, Rios, Peavy all big money down the drain.No. Kenny put a talented team together which is flawed (like every other team). Dunn was a good signing and acquiring Peavy for absoultely nothing was the right move. Rios obviously hasn't paid off like KW was hoping, but then again, look at the nonscalant, non-caring, slump-prone atmosphere Rios is in. A GM can only do so much. Although he is ultimately responsible for the team in the end, if a GM puts a good team together, it's all you can ask. This is a good team which is underacheiving (just like 2010, 2009, 2008, 2006). That falls on the field manager and in particular the hitting coach. If you want to say it's Kenny's fault for not firing Ozzie this year and firing Walker after 2006, I would agree. If you want to say that Kenny has failed by going after a "certain type of hitter" which is slump prone, despite the fact that slap hitter and power hitters, young hitters and old hitters, free swingers and guys looking to take walks have all fallen into the Walkerian vortex of month long slumps, I disagree. However, no amount of whining is going to make this Sox team untalented.

Lip Man 1
07-20-2011, 11:27 AM
The final word. Appropriate don't ya think:

"A game like that, you can do nothing about it" -- Ozzie Guillen to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune.

Seems the Sox haven't been able to do "nothing" about a lot of things this season.

:rolleyes:

Lip

kittle42
07-20-2011, 11:35 AM
The final word. Appropriate don't ya think:

"A game like that, you can do nothing about it" -- Ozzie Guillen to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune.

Seems the Sox haven't been able to do "nothing" about a lot of things this season.

:rolleyes:

Lip

Hey, Ozzie: **** off.

tstrike2000
07-20-2011, 11:42 AM
IMO, there is a difference between being asked to throw a shutout and being asked to not blow a 2 run lead. He had run support in the early innings and squandered it. Then it reverted to the same story we see every time this team falls behind. Impatience at the plate, swinging for the fences, and NEVER staging a comeback against bad relievers.

By now, the pitching staff knows that this offense is TOTALLY INCAPABLE of recapturing a lead. Therefore, every time this pitching staff squanders a lead needs to be considered a failure.

That doesn't really sound like good deductive reasoning. Would you like the pitching staff to hold the opponent to two runs or less every game? Certainly, but that's not realistic, even with the fact the Sox have the best team ERA in the division. Peavy blew the lead, but the Sox offense has been the failure all season. You can't score 2 runs or less and expect to win many ballgames, even with Roy Halladay as your pitcher.

Carolina Kenny
07-20-2011, 11:54 AM
Your point being? He had a broken ****ing ankle when the Sox acquired him. That is something which heals with no lingering effects. It isn't like they traded for a guy with known back or knee problems.

No. He is not Cy Young quality right now because he is admittedly still recovering from the detached lat.

No. Now? Maybe. Next year? He should be back to full force.

No. Jake Peavy never signed a contract with the White Sox.

No. Kenny put a talented team together which is flawed (like every other team). Dunn was a good signing and acquiring Peavy for absoultely nothing was the right move. Rios obviously hasn't paid off like KW was hoping, but then again, look at the nonscalant, non-caring, slump-prone atmosphere Rios is in. A GM can only do so much. Although he is ultimately responsible for the team in the end, if a GM puts a good team together, it's all you can ask. This is a good team which is underacheiving (just like 2010, 2009, 2008, 2006). That falls on the field manager and in particular the hitting coach. If you want to say it's Kenny's fault for not firing Ozzie this year and firing Walker after 2006, I would agree. If you want to say that Kenny has failed by going after a "certain type of hitter" which is slump prone, despite the fact that slap hitter and power hitters, young hitters and old hitters, free swingers and guys looking to take walks have all fallen into the Walkerian vortex of month long slumps, I disagree. However, no amount of whining is going to make this Sox team untalented.

At this moment in time If you are happy with the Peavy acquistion, then nothing I will say can sway you. IMO it is an unmitigated disaster.

At this moment in time if you are happy with using salary resources of a high priced DH Dunn who cannot contribute in ANY other way then to hit, then nothing anybody can say will sway you. IMO it is an unmitigated disaster.

At this moment in time if you are happy with slump prone, low OBP Rios, who has spent the majority of this Sox career looking beyond lost, then nothing I can say will sway you.

Other than our perpetual CF problems which have existed for decades since the departure of One Dog, we would have much better off with in house solutions are much, much better deployment of that money for players.

I believe that it is up to the GM to properly use his available resources to put the best team on the field for his manager.

I do not believe that if Gardenhire, Leyland, Torre, La Russa or any other highly regarded manager would do any better with this collection of players.

I do not believe a hitting coach actually has much affect on veterans at the MLB level.

The Sox should be dominating the Central Divison of the AL as the big dog major market team for many years now, but they have been beaten down by the Twinkies, Tigers and now even the Indians.

It is clearly time for a new regieme. Hire a new GM and let him pick his manager. Fire Walker, I really don't care.

Keep Cooper, the best of the lot.

Hitmen77
07-20-2011, 11:54 AM
The final word. Appropriate don't ya think:

"A game like that, you can do nothing about it" -- Ozzie Guillen to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune.

Seems the Sox haven't been able to do "nothing" about a lot of things this season.

:rolleyes:

Lip

White Sox Baseball: You Can't Do Nothing About It! :mad:

delben91
07-20-2011, 12:00 PM
No. Kenny put a talented team together which is flawed (like every other team). Dunn was a good signing and acquiring Peavy for absoultely nothing was the right move. Rios obviously hasn't paid off like KW was hoping, but then again, look at the nonscalant, non-caring, slump-prone atmosphere Rios is in. A GM can only do so much. Although he is ultimately responsible for the team in the end, if a GM puts a good team together, it's all you can ask. This is a good team which is underacheiving (just like 2010, 2009, 2008, 2006). That falls on the field manager and in particular the hitting coach. If you want to say it's Kenny's fault for not firing Ozzie this year and firing Walker after 2006, I would agree. If you want to say that Kenny has failed by going after a "certain type of hitter" which is slump prone, despite the fact that slap hitter and power hitters, young hitters and old hitters, free swingers and guys looking to take walks have all fallen into the Walkerian vortex of month long slumps, I disagree. However, no amount of whining is going to make this Sox team untalented.

:clap:

Well said, sir.

Lip Man 1
07-20-2011, 12:03 PM
Regarding the debate between "blaming" Peavy or the offense for Tuesday night... something to consider.

The Sox have already lost 12 games this season where they held an opponent to three runs or less.

Those should be very winnable games. It's really asking a pitching staff to walk a fine line when the offense has been as putrid as the Sox' has been in 2011. There seems to be no room for error, no allowance for one or two bad pitches...the offense seems incapable of overcoming that.

Lip

palehozenychicty
07-20-2011, 12:03 PM
How on earth has nobody made a move from the top? If Jerry really is hamstringing KW, then he is who we all thought he was: A blind barber.

JB98
07-20-2011, 12:12 PM
And when was the last time he actually was dominate (other than his few innings of relief)? Not nearly often enough for all the b.s. that goes along with him. The injuries, the whining, the rah-rah crap, the excuses...this guy annoys the crap out of me...someone who plays like him and makes the money he makes should be invisible. Look at how invisible Rios is. You never see or hear from him ever. The only thing annoying about him is how bad he sucks, but at least we arent forced to consume all the other crap...

In my earlier post, I indicated we need less talk and more production from Peavy.

So why are you telling me all this? It isn't anything I don't already know.

JB98
07-20-2011, 12:17 PM
IMO, there is a difference between being asked to throw a shutout and being asked to not blow a 2 run lead. He had run support in the early innings and squandered it. Then it reverted to the same story we see every time this team falls behind. Impatience at the plate, swinging for the fences, and NEVER staging a comeback against bad relievers.

By now, the pitching staff knows that this offense is TOTALLY INCAPABLE of recapturing a lead. Therefore, every time this pitching staff squanders a lead needs to be considered a failure.

The main problem with the team is the offensive approach is broken on multiple levels, and it will never be fixed as long as this regime is in charge. It's been going on for years.

I don't blame the pitching staff. Nearly every Sox loss is the result of lack of offensive production. You don't see the Sox losing too many 9-7 or 8-6 games. It happens occasionally, sure, but not often. Most of their losses are of the 4-2, 3-1 or 4-3 variety.

Pitchers are doing their jobs this season. The hitters should be ashamed of themselves. Every now and then, it would be nice if the hitters would pick the pitchers up with a late rally. Rarely happens.

captain54
07-20-2011, 12:34 PM
Yes, you're right, I would certainly love to trade places with the 20-games under .500 Royals!

Where you get that I suggested we trade places with the Royals.. I have no clue

Isn't it alarming, almost disturburing to you that the Sox struggle to beat a team with 25% the payroll of them? They would have swept the Sox in Chicago earlier this month if it wasn't for a walk-off balk. I wonder how Uncle Jerry likes knowing his team can't beat a team with 1/4 of it's payroll.

TheOldRoman
07-20-2011, 01:01 PM
At this moment in time If you are happy with the Peavy acquistion, then nothing I will say can sway you. IMO it is an unmitigated disaster.

At this moment in time if you are happy with using salary resources of a high priced DH Dunn who cannot contribute in ANY other way then to hit, then nothing anybody can say will sway you. IMO it is an unmitigated disaster.

At this moment in time if you are happy with slump prone, low OBP Rios, who has spent the majority of this Sox career looking beyond lost, then nothing I can say will sway you.

Other than our perpetual CF problems which have existed for decades since the departure of One Dog, we would have much better off with in house solutions are much, much better deployment of that money for players.

I believe that it is up to the GM to properly use his available resources to put the best team on the field for his manager.

I do not believe that if Gardenhire, Leyland, Torre, La Russa or any other highly regarded manager would do any better with this collection of players.

I do not believe a hitting coach actually has much affect on veterans at the MLB level.

The Sox should be dominating the Central Divison of the AL as the big dog major market team for many years now, but they have been beaten down by the Twinkies, Tigers and now even the Indians.

It is clearly time for a new regieme. Hire a new GM and let him pick his manager. Fire Walker, I really don't care.

Keep Cooper, the best of the lot.I am happy with the Sox acquiring Peavy. I am not happy that he detached his lat last year, and as a result is still recovering this year. However, that is entirely unrelated to him having a broken ankle when the Sox traded for him.

I think Dunn would help this team greatly if he was perfoming to his normal standards. His bat would be huge in the middle of the lineup. Being that the payroll is over $125 million, $14 mil a year for an impact bat isn't hampering the team, especially when he was the best power bat on the market. Obviously, the deal looks terrible with him struggling this year, but he will recover to become a manic hitter like the rest of ours. The only thing missing from Dunn this year has been one or two hot tears to make his numbers look respectable.

I didn't say I was happy with Rios the way he is perfoming. The Sox took a gamble on him, and to this point, at least, it hasn't paid off. However, as I said, I am not flumoxed to see Rios loafing and in a massive slump considering our entire lineup loafs and goes into two month-long slumps annually (with Konerko being the exception this year).

Williams has certainly made questionable moves in his tenure. However, on paper this is a very talented team. They haven't performed well, but as I said, a large portion of that has been their coaching, IMO. Kenny used his resources to put together Ozzie's dream team last year, and we saw what that got us on the offensive side.

I think other managers and coaching staffs would do considerably better with thie collection of players. The Sox not showing up against the Royals, Atheltics and Orioles is a mental thing. The players are not up for those games as they should be. The Sox being frightened to death of the Twins is 100% from Ozzie. The clubhouse atmosphere is horrible. As Jermaine Dye said before, he hated going into Minnesota because before the games even started they knew they would lose. Down the stretch in 2008, Ozzie said multiple times that the Sox needed a 4 game lead going into Minnesota because they didn't have a chance to win a single game there. While Ozzie is constantly bowing to a Twins team which has been less talented than the Sox almost every year this decade and instilling in the players that they have no chance against the Twins, other managers would probably be doing less ass kissing. The Sox should have the attitude of "who the **** are the Twins?! They suck and we should destroy them." That's in particular for the AAA Twins the Sox have laid down for this year. The Sox wouldn't have the defeatist attitude under other management.

I believe that hitting coaches do have a large impact on veterans. Aside from that, we have seen the wonders Walker has worked in destroying Beckham's career and turning him into a Walkerian prototype who struggles for half the season. He doesn't have the best record with other young players. As for the veterans, yes, Walker works with them and tweaks their swings. For example, Uribe was hitting the best he ever had in late Sept through the playoffs in 2005. Frank brought in Walt Hrniak to work with Uribe, and it worked. After the season, Walker said he liked what Uribe had done but he saw "some changes which could make Juan better." He reworked Uribe's swing and it wasn't for the better. That is just one example. A major league hitting coach is not going to completely rework a hitter's swing, but he does have influence in telling players to do this and that. Also, Walker is responsible for preparing the hitters for each game. And yet, the hitters are constantly unprepared, they don't know what they are facing and fail to adjust. As I said, you can either perpetuate the myth that KW only gets slump prone power hitters (although we have had slap hitters, young hitters, old hitters, high OBP guys, etc), you can think that a curse is the reason for the Sox constantly slumping, or you can think that something is fundamentally wrong in the hitting approaches Walker has imparted on a variety of different hitters who have fallen into this mold.

I agree that the Sox should be dominating the Central. I think Walker is the biggest problem and Ozzie is 1A. They need to be sent packing. I am for Kenny leaving after this season because 1)I think the organization needs fresh minds, and 2)He is ulitmately repsonsible for the failures of this team, whether it is because of players he acquired or coaches he kept employed.

captain54
07-20-2011, 01:33 PM
I agree that the Sox should be dominating the Central. I think Walker is the biggest problem and Ozzie is 1A. They need to be sent packing. I am for Kenny leaving after this season because 1)I think the organization needs fresh minds, and 2)He is ulitmately repsonsible for the failures of this team, whether it is because of players he acquired or coaches he kept employed.

Here's the thing, Roman. How do we really know whether or not the Chairman is thinking these exact thoughts? Based upon his past history of loyalty and the fact that he's no doubt indebted to those that gave him a WS Champion, we would say that the Walker/Ozzie/KW trio is here to stay for awhile.

But, there's really no way to know right now because the Sox are hanging around in a crappy division. If we were in the AL East or West it might be an entirely different "ball game", if you will.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if the Sox fall out of it come the last couple of months and the fans stay away in droves. I really believe that attendance will be the one deciding factor as to whether or not the Chairman's hand is forced

Carolina Kenny
07-20-2011, 02:00 PM
I am happy with the Sox acquiring Peavy. I am not happy that he detached his lat last year, and as a result is still recovering this year. However, that is entirely unrelated to him having a broken ankle when the Sox traded for him.

I think Dunn would help this team greatly if he was perfoming to his normal standards. His bat would be huge in the middle of the lineup. Being that the payroll is over $125 million, $14 mil a year for an impact bat isn't hampering the team, especially when he was the best power bat on the market. Obviously, the deal looks terrible with him struggling this year, but he will recover to become a manic hitter like the rest of ours. The only thing missing from Dunn this year has been one or two hot tears to make his numbers look respectable.

I didn't say I was happy with Rios the way he is perfoming. The Sox took a gamble on him, and to this point, at least, it hasn't paid off. However, as I said, I am not flumoxed to see Rios loafing and in a massive slump considering our entire lineup loafs and goes into two month-long slumps annually (with Konerko being the exception this year).

Williams has certainly made questionable moves in his tenure. However, on paper this is a very talented team. They haven't performed well, but as I said, a large portion of that has been their coaching, IMO. Kenny used his resources to put together Ozzie's dream team last year, and we saw what that got us on the offensive side.

I think other managers and coaching staffs would do considerably better with thie collection of players. The Sox not showing up against the Royals, Atheltics and Orioles is a mental thing. The players are not up for those games as they should be. The Sox being frightened to death of the Twins is 100% from Ozzie. The clubhouse atmosphere is horrible. As Jermaine Dye said before, he hated going into Minnesota because before the games even started they knew they would lose. Down the stretch in 2008, Ozzie said multiple times that the Sox needed a 4 game lead going into Minnesota because they didn't have a chance to win a single game there. While Ozzie is constantly bowing to a Twins team which has been less talented than the Sox almost every year this decade and instilling in the players that they have no chance against the Twins, other managers would probably be doing less ass kissing. The Sox should have the attitude of "who the **** are the Twins?! They suck and we should destroy them." That's in particular for the AAA Twins the Sox have laid down for this year. The Sox wouldn't have the defeatist attitude under other management.

I believe that hitting coaches do have a large impact on veterans. Aside from that, we have seen the wonders Walker has worked in destroying Beckham's career and turning him into a Walkerian prototype who struggles for half the season. He doesn't have the best record with other young players. As for the veterans, yes, Walker works with them and tweaks their swings. For example, Uribe was hitting the best he ever had in late Sept through the playoffs in 2005. Frank brought in Walt Hrniak to work with Uribe, and it worked. After the season, Walker said he liked what Uribe had done but he saw "some changes which could make Juan better." He reworked Uribe's swing and it wasn't for the better. That is just one example. A major league hitting coach is not going to completely rework a hitter's swing, but he does have influence in telling players to do this and that. Also, Walker is responsible for preparing the hitters for each game. And yet, the hitters are constantly unprepared, they don't know what they are facing and fail to adjust. As I said, you can either perpetuate the myth that KW only gets slump prone power hitters (although we have had slap hitters, young hitters, old hitters, high OBP guys, etc), you can think that a curse is the reason for the Sox constantly slumping, or you can think that something is fundamentally wrong in the hitting approaches Walker has imparted on a variety of different hitters who have fallen into this mold.

I agree that the Sox should be dominating the Central. I think Walker is the biggest problem and Ozzie is 1A. They need to be sent packing. I am for Kenny leaving after this season because 1)I think the organization needs fresh minds, and 2)He is ulitmately repsonsible for the failures of this team, whether it is because of players he acquired or coaches he kept employed.

IMO
Fans overrate the effect the managers and coachs have on a team.
The players are supposed to be pros. After all this is their profession and their life.

At the MLB level, players should not have to seek motivation from bench coaches and they should be expected to know everything possible about the team they are playing against. This is the Information Age and it should be easy for any player to learn about any other player.

If a baserunner is not aware of the arm strength of the outfielders, it is totally his fault. If a batter is unaware of what a pitcher throws, that is also the batters fault.

This shifting of responsibility away from the player is appalling. Lack of preperation and lack of hustle falls directly on the players shoulders.

Dunn's lack of preperation for his new role on a new team in a new league as he is one year older and his bat speed slows is a result of Dunn being a big lazy farm boy, spending his winters on the farm hunting. Burhle admitted he had to accelerate his off season conditioning. Dunn doesn't have the advantage of a low expectation team in Chicago. He is in the big market, and what does he do, he spits the bit.

Rios lack of hustle and failure to correct his slump are a personal failure of Alex Freaking Rios. A life long prima donna who could gets by on talent only. Does this guy work on his craft, does he study the pitchers and the batters. Is he a student of the game or a lucky millionaire who gave just enough of himself to earn a large contract?

As far as Peavy goes, I wish he would just pitch and shut up. He is a ego-tripping self-promoting hype machine.

I cut Beckham slack because he was brought up at least one year too soon. TCQ is playing to his potential, what did you expect Rocky Colovito?

Juan Pierre is far from great, but I respect his effort and I respect the dedication and preperation it takes for him to achieve what he does.

Does the Big Donkey even have a fingernail worth of preperation and dedication the Juan or TCM has? He is just a big fool and I wish he would go away as he hurts my eyes and I can't stand watching his dumb farmboy act.

Big Donkey-an insult to Sox fans everywhere.

captain54
07-20-2011, 02:36 PM
IMO
Fans overrate the effect the managers and coachs have on a team.
The players are supposed to be pros. After all this is their profession and their life.


.

If you haven't noticed, during the course of the history of baseball, the great majority of MLB organizations replace managers and coaches if they feel they aren't getting the job done, and/or getting the required results.

Except the Sox, of course.

hawkjt
07-20-2011, 02:42 PM
White Sox Baseball: You Can't Do Nothing About It! :mad:

Why does this bring to mind the phone conversation between the old mobster and De Niro in Goodfellas after the mobster had just shot Joe Pesci in the head.....

''he's gone..,and there was nutting that could be done about it'':D:

SoxSpeed22
07-20-2011, 02:45 PM
If Dunn is right about how the advanced scouting sucks (not his words, mine), then that would explain why they have so much trouble against pitchers they haven't seen, but that doesn't excuse the lack of adjustments. Put a bunch of headcases together in one clubhouse, you get a dysfunctional team.

Lip Man 1
07-20-2011, 02:52 PM
SoxSpeed:

Mark Gonzales of the Tribune followed up on Dunn's comments and printed that there was no evidence the Sox advanced scouting department isn't getting video and reports out to the players in a timely manner.

Lip

guillensdisciple
07-20-2011, 02:54 PM
The final word. Appropriate don't ya think:

"A game like that, you can do nothing about it" -- Ozzie Guillen to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune.

Seems the Sox haven't been able to do "nothing" about a lot of things this season.

:rolleyes:

Lip

This makes me absolutely furious. Have always been good with Ozzie but at this point **** you Ozzwaldo, go coach the Marlins if this is how you feel.

SoxSpeed22
07-20-2011, 02:58 PM
This makes me absolutely furious. Have always been good with Ozzie but at this point **** you Ozzwaldo, go coach the Marlins if this is how you feel.I think he's been mentally checked out for some time.

guillensdisciple
07-20-2011, 03:09 PM
I think he's been mentally checked out for some time.


I don't know what the case is, but that just sounds bad. You don't have to give a crap about your job, but if you're getting paid millions to do it, at least act like you care.

This organization is beyond ****ed up.

hawkjt
07-20-2011, 04:21 PM
Twins beat the Tribe. Sox need to win the next 5 games and they could be in first place by next Tuesday. I know...incurable optimist.

Still, Sox go to Cleveland for 3 while the Twins host the Tigers for 4,then the tigers come to Soxpark for 3,while the Tribe play the hot Angels.
If only the Sox could catch fire for the next week,this thing could be turned upside down. I would like a 1967 pennant chase with Tigers,Twins,Sox and Tribe fighting down to the wire..but this time.Sox Win!

Lip Man 1
07-20-2011, 04:38 PM
Guillen:

I agree. Ozzie's comments this year tell me, that he's coasting through and waiting for the end of the year.

What was his comment in May when they Sox were beyond hopeless? That it felt like September already?

Well Oz you can always resign and go live on your boat. But as long as you stick around at least act like you give a damn. Fake it if you have to.

Lip

Nelfox02
07-20-2011, 06:02 PM
This makes me absolutely furious. Have always been good with Ozzie but at this point **** you Ozzwaldo, go coach the Marlins if this is how you feel.


yeah, awful comment.

its a long year, there are those games that happen where you just get pounded (a la that awful Danks start that one sunday in Toronto). Happens to all teams more than once in a season....games like that? yeah, not much you can do but wear it. Game like last night? a 1 run game for the majority.....down 2 at the most? There was nothing that could be done about that?

what a joke

I sure hope that quote was taken out of context

palehozenychicty
07-20-2011, 06:19 PM
I still can't believe no move has even been rumored with this team.

doublem23
07-20-2011, 06:39 PM
I still can't believe no move has even been rumored with this team.

I'm guessing at this point KW has unplugged his office phone and flushed his cell phone in the Executive Bathroom.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-20-2011, 06:47 PM
I'm guessing at this point KW has unplugged his office phone and flushed his cell phone in the Executive Bathroom.

...where later on, it was said to have resurfaced at the airport, where someone took it and was seen talking on it by the baggage area. The words "pepperoni" and "delivery" were overheard during the conversation. Peter Gammons is currently following up the report for ESPN.

guillensdisciple
07-20-2011, 06:48 PM
...where later on, it was said to have resurfaced at the airport, where someone took it and was seen talking on it by the baggage area. The words "pepperoni" and "delivery" were overheard during the conversation. Peter Gammons is currently following up the report for ESPN.

Viciedo is being traded for a pepperoni pizza?

Daver
07-20-2011, 06:59 PM
Viciedo is being traded for a pepperoni pizza?

And a side salad to be named later.

delben91
07-20-2011, 07:23 PM
And a side salad to be named later.

Hope it's a Caesar... :praying:

BainesHOF
07-20-2011, 09:45 PM
Hope it's a Caesar... :praying:

Caesar Tovar?

guillensdisciple
07-20-2011, 10:37 PM
And a side salad to be named later.

Hope it's a Caesar... :praying:

My funny quota is fulfilled for the night. Thank you both.