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View Full Version : *Official* 7-18 Buehrle + timely hitting + bad KC fielding = SOX 5 KC 2 Postgamer


Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2011, 10:47 PM
It probably should have been a 10-2 victory, and I still think Ozzie had some brain farts, but I'll never argue with a win.

It would be nice if KW could re-sign Buehrle. He's having a really good season.

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2011, 10:49 PM
Win the series tomorrow and get the sweep on Wednesday. We really could use the wins, and the momentum going into Cleveland. We need all the wins we can get.

thomas35forever
07-18-2011, 10:49 PM
:winner

Despite failing to take it to Davies as much as we should have, I'll take a victory any way possible.

JB98
07-18-2011, 10:49 PM
I rarely agree with Phil Rogers, but he makes a good point when he says the Sox should extend Buehrle before he hits free agency.

Buehrle is consistent and reliable. He's one of only a handful of Sox players you can say that about.

Crain is another guy who is consistent and reliable. Great signing by KW this past offseason, weakening a division rival while at the same time fortifying his own bullpen.

SOXSINCE'70
07-18-2011, 10:50 PM
I'll take what I can get right now.

Just one curious move: Thornton starts the 9th,retires the 2 batters he faced, then Ozzie
goes to Santos,who strikes out the only batter he faced.
Why not leave Thornton in if he's getting the job done??:scratch:

sunofgold
07-18-2011, 10:51 PM
Just checked both SS and MT hadn't pitched since 7/10. That is a long layoff. Good idea to get them in against the lower order guys of KC. Nice job, Ozzie.

Great start by MB and he gets the win! Beckham was great on defense. And we took advantage of the some bad D by the bad guys. Crain was solid as well. Nice win!

all*star quentin
07-18-2011, 10:52 PM
For a game that was suppose to be an easy win. Who the **** does Davies think he is.

White Sox pulled it out. :cool:

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2011, 10:52 PM
I rarely agree with Phil Rogers, but he makes a good point when he says the Sox should extend Buehrle before he hits free agency.

Buehrle is consistent and reliable. He's one of only a handful of Sox players you can say that about.

Crain is another guy who is consistent and reliable. Great signing by KW this past offseason, weakening a division rival while at the same time fortifying his own bullpen.

I don't think any of us can complain about the Sox pitching staff this year. Individual performances excepted (Thornton in April, Peavy's injuries, etc.), overall the pitching has been as good as could be expected.

The fielding also has been pretty good, especially in the infield. Every team will make some errors, and there have been some real boneheaded mental mistakes, but overall the fielding has been as good as could be expected.

LITTLE NELL
07-18-2011, 10:52 PM
I'll take what I can get right now.

Just one curious move: Thornton starts the 9th,retires the 2 batters he faced, then Ozzie
goes to Santos,who strikes out the only batter he faced.
Why not leave Thornton in if he's getting the job done??:scratch:

How can you question the moves that Ozzie makes?

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 10:53 PM
From the opening triple to the final out another team win. More good at bats leading to more grinder style runs and the pitching was it's usual steady self.

Well looks like the Toons are gonna sweep the Twinkies but for now the Sox are...

2 games under, 4 games back.

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

Noneck
07-18-2011, 10:54 PM
I rarely agree with Phil Rogers, but he makes a good point when he says the Sox should extend Buehrle before he hits free agency.




That all depends on the cost and term. He is basically a .500 pitcher as of the last couple years but a great innings eater.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 10:54 PM
For a game that was suppose to be an easy win. Who the **** does Davies think he is.

White Sox pulled it out. :cool:

Three words for ya...

C.

B.

Bucknor

SCCWS
07-18-2011, 10:54 PM
Nice win especially since Clevland may sweep Twins. One small complaint. I rarely criticize Ozzie but why use Santos in the 9th? Thornton could have finished against a very mediocre lefty. Save the closer for a save situation and why show KC his stuff in game 1 of a series if you don't have to.

Brian26
07-18-2011, 10:55 PM
Crain is another guy who is consistent and reliable. Great signing by KW this past offseason, weakening a division rival while at the same time fortifying his own bullpen.

Crain's a good candidate to turn into the 2006 version of Cliff Politte next year the way they're working him.

PeteWard
07-18-2011, 10:56 PM
I'll take what I can get right now.

Just one curious move: Thornton starts the 9th,retires the 2 batters he faced, then Ozzie
goes to Santos,who strikes out the only batter he faced.
Why not leave Thornton in if he's getting the job done??:scratch:

My guess is that he and Coop were concerned that SS has not worked since July 9. Some closers tend to screw up after long layoff so i figure they would not want him coming in a game later this week with a one-run lead after a long lay off that could cost the Sox a win.

Me? I actually wanted to see Crain finish. He looked over-powering.

sunofgold
07-18-2011, 10:57 PM
3-1 after the All Star break. Great start. I really hope that Peavy feels good and healthy tomorrow. Seems like that is when he pitches well.

JB98
07-18-2011, 10:58 PM
That all depends on the cost and term. He is basically a .500 pitcher as of the last couple years but a great innings eater.

He's a .500 pitcher because of the team behind him.

PeteWard
07-18-2011, 10:59 PM
I don't think any of us can complain about the Sox pitching staff this year. Individual performances excepted (Thornton in April, Peavy's injuries, etc.), overall the pitching has been as good as could be expected.

The fielding also has been pretty good, especially in the infield. Every team will make some errors, and there have been some real boneheaded mental mistakes, but overall the fielding has been as good as could be expected.

Fielding pct is the best in MLB, :rolleyes:

Zakath
07-18-2011, 11:03 PM
From the opening triple to the final out another team win. More good at bats leading to more grinder style runs and the pitching was it's usual steady self.

Well looks like the Toons are gonna sweep the Twinkies but for now the Sox are...

2 games under, 4 games back.


That actually doesn't hurt us as much as it seems, because while we continue to struggle against the scum of the North, Cleveland hasn't shown that they can beat the Sox consistently. Whatever they're doing against everyone else, they haven't done against the Sox.

And we have 13 left with them.

PeteWard
07-18-2011, 11:03 PM
From the opening triple to the final out another team win. More good at bats leading to more grinder style runs and the pitching was it's usual steady self.

Well looks like the Toons are gonna sweep the Twinkies but for now the Sox are...

2 games under, 4 games back.




I know I shouldn't think this but the Twins getting swept here today would not bother me even though we lose 1/2 game. The reason is that the Twinks would be pretty devastated after clawing back only to lose two games in the standings in one day. And I love me some devastated Twinkies. Sox can wait to pick up three on Cle this weekend.

slavko
07-18-2011, 11:03 PM
That all depends on the cost and term. He is basically a .500 pitcher as of the last couple years but a great innings eater.

Check. Too expensive now, the kind of a veteran you let go and replace with a pitcher you've developed in your farm system. What's that you say? No farm system? No pitching talent in the pipeline? Still too expensive.

Stoney during the broadcast hinting that Atlanta needs to add a hitter to catch the Phillies. Can't have anything to do with us, can it? Naw, probably just baseball talk.

Mohoney
07-18-2011, 11:10 PM
See what happens when you can score runners from 3rd with less than 2 outs?

guillensdisciple
07-18-2011, 11:14 PM
5-6 on the 19 game swing. Still have a shot at turning this one into a good one. We'll see how the other two go though.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 11:14 PM
Honestly I'm torn about this one.

Absolutely happy for the win, no question...ANYTIME you win a game it's great but Davies was I think, 1-8, he had an ERA of OVER SEVEN. And the Sox only get him for two runs....strike out nine times and for the most part make this garbage pitcher look like Sandy Koufax.

Like I said this team just drives you nuts even when they win.

Lip

PeteWard
07-18-2011, 11:16 PM
5-6 on the 19 game swing. Still have a shot at turning this one into a good one. We'll see how the other two go though.


Four of the next five and I would be very happy.

Tragg
07-18-2011, 11:18 PM
Nice workman-like win. Pitching remains superb.
And with Thornton pitching up to standards that last 6 weeks, we have ourselves a really good pen.

Re MB, to me, he is as much of the "fabric" of this generation of Sox as is Konerko. Now the average fan may not see it that way. But I do. Would definitely sign him if we didn't have the other 3 contractual burdens (Dunn, Peavy, Rios)...now, it's a close call.

JermaineDye05
07-18-2011, 11:20 PM
Judging by the thread title, I'm guessing the Sox had plenty chances to put Davies away but didn't.

Am I correct?

PeteWard
07-18-2011, 11:20 PM
Honestly I'm torn about this one.

Absolutely happy for the win, no question...ANYTIME you win a game it's great but Davies was I think, 1-8, he had an ERA of OVER SEVEN. And the Sox only get him for two runs....strike out nine times (seven in a row if memory serves...) and for the most part make this garbage pitcher look like Sandy Koufax.

Like I said this team just drives you nuts even when they win.

Lip

You have a good point but the KC announcers said that Davies had his best stuff ever. ---Or at least as a Royal. Also that wide strike zone tends to help hard throwers more than nibblers like MB. But yeah, not terribly impressed with a number of at bats. Rios esp. swings at head high first pitches and then takes the second one down the pipe. Ugh.

palehozenychicty
07-18-2011, 11:21 PM
Buehrle does it again. He has been consistent this year. I'll take the win and keep rolling.

PeteWard
07-18-2011, 11:22 PM
Judging by the thread title, I'm guessing the Sox had plenty chances to put Davies away but didn't.

Am I correct?

Not really. They just struck out a lot.

PalehosePlanet
07-18-2011, 11:24 PM
Honestly I'm torn about this one.

Absolutely happy for the win, no question...ANYTIME you win a game it's great but Davies was I think, 1-8, he had an ERA of OVER SEVEN. And the Sox only get him for two runs....strike out nine times and for the most part make this garbage pitcher look like Sandy Koufax.

Like I said this team just drives you nuts even when they win.

Lip

In defense of our hitters Lip, Davies was getting pitches that were 3-6 inches off the corner, ankle high pitches, etc....The residual of these horse**** calls was guys swinging at bad pitches because they thought they'd be called strikes.

Davies K'd probably 3 guys legitimately, CB Bucknor the other 6.

Our offense sucks, no doubt, but we do not strike out much.

We're lucky that he's stupid/bad enough to actually throw anything over the plate.

Chez
07-18-2011, 11:25 PM
Stoney during the broadcast hinting that Atlanta needs to add a hitter to catch the Phillies. Can't have anything to do with us, can it? Naw, probably just baseball talk.

We really don't have a surplus of hitters to be dealing.

DickAllen72
07-18-2011, 11:25 PM
I know I shouldn't think this but the Twins getting swept here today would not bother me even though we lose 1/2 game. The reason is that the Twinks would be pretty devastated after clawing back only to lose two games in the standings in one day. And I love me some devastated Twinkies. Sox can wait to pick up three on Cle this weekend.
I agree with this 100%. The Sox will take care of the Indians themselves. In the meantime, bury the freakin' Twins.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 11:27 PM
Honestly I'm torn about this one.

Absolutely happy for the win, no question...ANYTIME you win a game it's great but Davies was I think, 1-8, he had an ERA of OVER SEVEN. And the Sox only get him for two runs....strike out nine times and for the most part make this garbage pitcher look like Sandy Koufax.

Like I said this team just drives you nuts even when they win.

Lip

Lip did you get to see the game? Bucknor's strike zone was all over the map early in particular. Up, down, in, out - it was horrible.

JermaineDye05
07-18-2011, 11:29 PM
Lip did you get to see the game? Bucknor's strike zone was all over the map early in particular. Up, down, in, out - it was horrible.

CB Bucknor?

That answers a lot.

How does that guy still have a job in the majors?

slavko
07-18-2011, 11:30 PM
We really don't have a surplus of hitters to be dealing.

Viciedo or Quentin.

PalehosePlanet
07-18-2011, 11:32 PM
I agree with this 100%. The Sox will take care of the Indians themselves. In the meantime, bury the freakin' Twins.

Agreed. The twinkies losing is always heart warming. Besides we gained 1.5 games on them and are 2.5 ahead of them at this point.

BTW: Rodrigo Lopez gets the W and Cy Halladay the L in the Cubs/Phils game tonight. I don't feel quite as bad losing to him now, because honestly, I thought that would be his only win of the year.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 11:33 PM
JB:

Understand the point but also the Sox as has been noted (including by you) throughout the season have not been patient and have been swinging at a lot of bad pitches.

Umpires seem to get into a mindset as well that if a team is helping pitchers out (as the Sox have) umps give them breaks (meaning pitchers).

Not defending this guy but I've always felt blaming umpires is just stretching things.

It was probably a combination of a garbage pitcher having a good night, a wide strike zone AND the fact that it was the White Sox. Still though you have to go back to that ERA...somebody was crushing this guy, inconsistent strike zone or not during the season. (and I figure the Royals have run into this same umpiring crew a time or two before as have the Sox)

Lip

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 11:33 PM
JD:

Same as Joe West...

Lip

Noneck
07-18-2011, 11:35 PM
He's a .500 pitcher because of the team behind him.

Maybe so, I felt about Horlen the way you do about Buehrle. A snakebit pitcher.

hawkjt
07-18-2011, 11:43 PM
Bucknor is absolutely a horsecrap home ump....every time. And he has an attitude...no surprise since he constantly is questioned on his calls,rightfully so. In fairness, he hurt KC hitters also. Davis did have some pretty good stuff tonite...crazy how he always brings it against the Sox and is horrible against the rest of the league.

When the Sox score early like tonite, their chances improve considerably.
Juan continues to be red-hot, hitting over .390 his last 18 games and moving up to 10th in the league in hits. Also leads the team in hitting with runners in scoring position...all good stats.

Gordo had a great nite with the glove. As Melton pointed out,at this time last year the Sox had double the number of errors...leading the league with only 44 thru almost 100 games is great.

One thing that does hiss me off about Ozzie is that yesterday,in a one of the biggest games of the year with a 3-1 lead in the 6th vs the Tigers,he simply refused to bend his rule about taking out a fading Humber and go with guy like Crain who had sat for 7 days,then go with Sale,Thornton,Sergio...all of whom had not worked in 7-8 days at least.
No, instead he sticks with the fading Humber,he gives up the game tying hit to Martinez,Sox lose,then tonite he has a bullpen too well rested and he runs them out there just to get work in a comfortable lead game.....me, I use them when they can get the Sox within 3 games with a sweep of the Tigers....irrritating.

MB was solid tonite. His last 14 starts the Sox are 11-3. He is 6-3 with 5 no decisions,but all have been quality starts. I really think the 6 man rotation has been a huge boon to MB. Would love to have another 3 years deal for him at the end of the year,as long as they use him correctly.

Was really proud of Gordo,Teahen and Juan for pushing across those extra runs...good at bats.

Rios really made me made with Gordo on second and nobody out,he had an outside pitch that he could have pushed to the right side and advanced Gordo...but he is too selfish and tried to pull it and grounded out to the SS and Gordo did not advance. Rios could at least try to be helpful for his 12 million.

Good game,but tribe squashes the Twins in a db. Sox have a db at Twins on 9/5...could we please match the tribe?

johnnyg83
07-18-2011, 11:45 PM
For a game that was suppose to be an easy win. Who the **** does Davies think he is.

He's arguably the worst SP in the Major Leagues.

PeteWard
07-18-2011, 11:50 PM
He's arguably the worst SP in the Major Leagues.

Well the Sox beat arguably the best SP in the AL Friday and actually beat this guy, too.

Now they just need to avoid sliding. 4 out of the next 5 would be big

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 11:50 PM
I don't know Paulino would give him a good run for his money.

Lip

shingo10
07-19-2011, 12:10 AM
It is really a shame that Dayan isn't a center fielder. Or that Quentin or Pierre can't play center either. Because if they could then we could sit Rios down and not have to see him do the same crap every single game.

On a more positive note it's GREAT to get a win in KC. Feels like they are always hard to come by and there's no reason for it. We should be able to take care of these guys.

JermaineDye05
07-19-2011, 12:27 AM
When the Sox score early like tonite, their chances improve considerably.
Juan continues to be red-hot, hitting over .390 his last 18 games and moving up to 10th in the league in hits. Also leads the team in hitting with runners in scoring position...all good stats.

Trade him while his value has gone up considerably.

Foulke You
07-19-2011, 01:46 AM
CB Bucknor?

That answers a lot.

How does that guy still have a job in the majors?
CB Bucknor was rated the #1 worst umpire in an anonymous player poll that SI did a couple years ago. Joe West was either 2 or 3 on the list.

Foulke You
07-19-2011, 02:08 AM
Sox are trending #2 on Yahoo right now. Interesting since there has been no trades. I guess Sox fans are just checking up on the scores and Indians fans are doing a bit of scoreboard watching too.

kufram
07-19-2011, 03:32 AM
Trade him while his value has gone up considerably.

I thought he was the worst player in all of baseball and no one else would have him?

ShooterMcGavin
07-19-2011, 03:57 AM
I think I heard a stat that Buehrle has thrown 13 consecutive starts allowing 3 runs or less. Quite impressive, and another nice game tonight.

JermaineDye05
07-19-2011, 04:29 AM
I thought he was the worst player in all of baseball and no one else would have him?

After playing out of his mind this past month+, he's improved on that.

Considering his contract is up after this season and the likelihood of the team re-signing him is extremely low, it would not be a bad idea to listen to offers (if there are any) and take what you can get at this point.

hi im skot
07-19-2011, 07:05 AM
After playing out of his mind this past month+, he's improved on that.

Considering his contract is up after this season and the likelihood of the team re-signing him is extremely low, it would not be a bad idea to listen to offers (if there are any) and take what you can get at this point.

Or you could stick with him and hope his last month or so isn't a fluke. Without looking up the numbers, I seem to recall Pierre's second half in 2010 was better than his first.

October26
07-19-2011, 08:47 AM
Love Buehrle and love White sox wins - even with games like the one last night where a bad pitcher like Davies was striking out everybody in the Sox lineup. But then the throwing error by KC opened the door and the Sox capitalized and scored!

Keep the wins coming boys!:bandance:

slavko
07-19-2011, 08:50 AM
Or you could stick with him and hope his last month or so isn't a fluke. Without looking up the numbers, I seem to recall Pierre's second half in 2010 was better than his first.

Did the same in his Cubbie days, IIRC. His body language looks different and he's helping the team. CF? Never say never. After some of the defensive misfits we've put out there in recent memory. He'd give us more overall as a CF than Rios does, but remember that Rios is not an exceptional defensive CF.

doublem23
07-19-2011, 09:02 AM
Did the same in his Cubbie days, IIRC. His body language looks different and he's helping the team. CF? Never say never. After some of the defensive misfits we've put out there in recent memory. He'd give us more overall as a CF than Rios does, but remember that Rios is not an exceptional defensive CF.

Eh, that might be pushing it a bit too much. As long as Pierre's getting on base and not dropping fly balls in LF, he's doing all I can expect of him.

hawkjt
07-19-2011, 09:05 AM
Pierre has a career BA of .297. ...1st half .285, 2nd half .312. Career averages in July- .324 Aug- .303 Sept- .319 , career 2nd half on base of .357, career second half OPS- .773.

Juan has been a better second half player his whole career. JD seems to think that the last 18 games is a fluke..it is not,it is his career long pattern.
Trading the hottest hitter on the team right now,would be a white flag deal. Not gonna happen.

Chez
07-19-2011, 09:09 AM
Why was a save not given to Santos last night?

doublem23
07-19-2011, 09:23 AM
Why was a save not given to Santos last night?

1/3 of an inning with no one on base and a 3-run lead is not a save situation.

If it was a 2-run game or the Royals had someone on base, he would have saved the game.

Chez
07-19-2011, 09:32 AM
1/3 of an inning with no one on base and a 3-run lead is not a save situation.

If it was a 2-run game or the Royals had someone on base, he would have saved the game.

Hmm. I could be wrong, but I always thought "three run lead" was the magic number to qualify for a save if the reliever finishes the game (regardless if he pitches less than a full inning). Thornton would have been eligible for one had he recorded the last out. Maybe the official scorer has some discretion?

JermaineDye05
07-19-2011, 09:37 AM
Pierre has a career BA of .297. ...1st half .285, 2nd half .312. Career averages in July- .324 Aug- .303 Sept- .319 , career 2nd half on base of .357, career second half OPS- .773.

Juan has been a better second half player his whole career. JD seems to think that the last 18 games is a fluke..it is not,it is his career long pattern.
Trading the hottest hitter on the team right now,would be a white flag deal. Not gonna happen.

The reason I mostly want to do it is because I don't think this team is really going anywhere.

Even if they manage to make it into the playoffs, I don't think this team is capable of an extended run, as they've shown us all too often this year.

I'd rather the team start rebuilding now for next season and the season after that.

TheOldRoman
07-19-2011, 10:08 AM
Hmm. I could be wrong, but I always thought "three run lead" was the magic number to qualify for a save if the reliever finishes the game (regardless if he pitches less than a full inning). Thornton would have been eligible for one had he recorded the last out. Maybe the official scorer has some discretion?If he has a three run lead, he either needs to pitch a full inning or come in with the tying run on deck. So if Thornton would have let one guy on base, Santos would have gotten the save. Also, saves are given out regardless of the score if the pitcher goes the last three innings. I don't think the scorer has any discretion with saves.

delben91
07-19-2011, 10:18 AM
JB:

Understand the point but also the Sox as has been noted (including by you) throughout the season have not been patient and have been swinging at a lot of bad pitches.

Umpires seem to get into a mindset as well that if a team is helping pitchers out (as the Sox have) umps give them breaks (meaning pitchers).

Not defending this guy but I've always felt blaming umpires is just stretching things.

It was probably a combination of a garbage pitcher having a good night, a wide strike zone AND the fact that it was the White Sox. Still though you have to go back to that ERA...somebody was crushing this guy, inconsistent strike zone or not during the season. (and I figure the Royals have run into this same umpiring crew a time or two before as have the Sox)

Lip

But to counter that, regardless of the Sox history of patience or lack thereof, if an ump is calling a certain pitch a strike, even if it's a bad pitch, it behooves the Sox hitters to try and put it in play. I suppose they could just take it out of principle, and strike out.

Most of the Sox inept offensive performances this year are their own doing, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that once in a while they have to adjust their approach to deal with an ump's unusual strike zone. I find it even more possible since the ump in question has a history of having a wide zone.

doublem23
07-19-2011, 10:23 AM
Hmm. I could be wrong, but I always thought "three run lead" was the magic number to qualify for a save if the reliever finishes the game (regardless if he pitches less than a full inning). Thornton would have been eligible for one had he recorded the last out. Maybe the official scorer has some discretion?

No, the magic numbers are 3-run lead and at least 1 IP. If a reliever finishes a game, but throws less than 1 IP, then when he enters the game, the potential tying run needs to at least be on deck.

Chez
07-19-2011, 10:25 AM
No, the magic numbers are 3-run lead and at least 1 IP. If a reliever finishes a game, but throws less than 1 IP, then when he enters the game, the potential tying run needs to at least be on deck.

Got it. Thanks for the knowledge.

JB98
07-19-2011, 01:20 PM
I think I heard a stat that Buehrle has thrown 13 consecutive starts allowing 3 runs or less. Quite impressive, and another nice game tonight.

The Sox are 13-6 when Buehrle starts. Given the overall team record of 47-49, that's pretty good.