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vinny
07-18-2011, 02:16 PM
Bill Bergen's .159/.175/.184 line for the 1906 Brooklyn Dodgers.

Ugh. This is depressing.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/12991

kittle42
07-18-2011, 02:17 PM
But he walks! :D:

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 02:23 PM
Bill Bergen's .159/.175/.184 line for the 1906 Brooklyn Dodgers.

Ugh. This is depressing.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/12991


Makes those 1906 Hitless Wonder Sox look like Murderer's Row...

Hey.. There is life in his bat.. I'm actually seeing the odd fly ball, single and GIDP.... Yippie Skippy !!!!

BK59

GoSox2K3
07-18-2011, 02:34 PM
:thud:

....no, it's not too early to call him a bust.

LITTLE NELL
07-18-2011, 03:27 PM
The stubborness of KW and Ozzie sticking with this guy and not bringing up Viciedo is going to cost us the division. This is almost 4 months of this. At one point you have to say **** it, sit the guy down and hope he comes back strong next year.

BringBackBlkJack
07-18-2011, 03:30 PM
Look at Dan Uggla at #26. When Braves fans complain about Uggla, I remind them he looks like Tony ****ing Gwynn compared to Big Donkey.

tstrike2000
07-18-2011, 03:34 PM
You mean his current season's end projection of 82 walks compared to 77 hits is bad?

billcissell
07-18-2011, 03:44 PM
"....no, it's not too early to call him a bust."

It's the middle of July, we're 90 games into the season. So far this guy has been the biggest bust of the 2011 season.

Will he turn it around and start producing? I hope so. But I see absolutely no signs of that happening so far.

Apparently the Sox will continue to march his sorry ass up to the plate on a regular basis to swing and miss. What bothers me is that they continue to hit him in the #3 slot or cleanup. Put him down in the order, #7 or #8, to somewhat minimize the damage of his ineffectiveness.

Crestani
07-18-2011, 03:46 PM
You mean his current season's end projection of 82 walks compared to 77 hits is bad?


:rolling:

RKMeibalane
07-18-2011, 03:53 PM
The stubborness of KW and Ozzie sticking with this guy and not bringing up Viciedo is going to cost us the division. This is almost 4 months of this. At one point you have to say **** it, sit the guy down and hope he comes back strong next year.

:reinsy

"If you come to the park, we will bring up Viciedo."

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 04:43 PM
The stubborness of KW and Ozzie sticking with this guy and not bringing up Viciedo is going to cost us the division. This is almost 4 months of this. At one point you have to say **** it, sit the guy down and hope he comes back strong next year.

Damn... If I were manager (insert chortle from voodochile), this load would be picking splinters and taking the pitch count... I may even pick his vast baseball knowledge on how to hit in certain situations..:D:

This is almost as close to being on the dole as it gets..

BK59

Foulke You
07-18-2011, 05:31 PM
Well, at least Dunn has contributed here and there so far this road trip. Also, in the last 10 games, he has 2 HRs and 7RBI with 5 runs scored. This is not Ruthian production but he at least has contributed a bit to the offense which is better than he was doing earlier. The 2 RBI base hit with the bases loaded was nice to see. I'm pulling for the guy to snap out of this and go on a tear because I really believe if he gets hot, we can put this division away. He has the ability to do it, we Sox fans just haven't seen it yet this year. :(:

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 05:54 PM
This off season there was a lot of speculation (both here and in the mainstream media) that the Sox made an offer to Victor Martinez.

If that was true (?) you wonder how things might have been different if he said yes.

Lip

kittle42
07-18-2011, 06:03 PM
This off season there was a lot of speculation (both here and in the mainstream media) that the Sox made an offer to Victor Martinez.

If that was true (?) you wonder how things might have been different if he said yes.

Lip

That depends - would he be working with Greg Walker? :cool:

Marqhead
07-18-2011, 06:19 PM
I still like him better than Mark Kotsay.

guillensdisciple
07-18-2011, 06:52 PM
I still like him better than Mark Kotsay.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

that's hilarious.

tstrike2000
07-18-2011, 09:27 PM
http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/cin.gif?w=400&h=321

Bob Roarman
07-18-2011, 09:48 PM
The stubborness of KW and Ozzie sticking with this guy and not bringing up Viciedo is going to cost us the division. This is almost 4 months of this. At one point you have to say **** it, sit the guy down and hope he comes back strong next year.

One player costs us the division while another one (more or less a rookie at that) wins it for us. Gotcha.

JB98
07-18-2011, 10:03 PM
One player costs us the division while another one (more or less a rookie at that) wins it for us. Gotcha.

I doubt Viciedo would win the Sox the division, but they should bench Dunn.

LITTLE NELL
07-18-2011, 10:30 PM
One player costs us the division while another one (more or less a rookie at that) wins it for us. Gotcha.

PK has 68 RBIs and Dunn has 36. How many more games would we have won if Dunn had as many ribbies as Paulie? No way of ever knowing but if it was only 5 games, which is not a stretch, we would be in first place right now.
He is 0 for 3 tonight with 2 more strikeouts and is now at .158 but lets stick with him, he should break out of this anyday now.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 11:21 PM
Or any "year" now...right Nell? :D:

Lip

Nellie_Fox
07-19-2011, 01:36 AM
I doubt Viciedo would win the Sox the division, but they should bench Dunn.It's easy for fans to ignore the money they have sunk in this guy. Hell, other than move him down in the order, I don't know what I'd do. He isn't showing any signs of playing his way out of this (in fact, it's getting worse, last 28 days; .103 BA, .407 OPS, 33 strikeouts in 75 PA) but it certainly won't get better by not playing at all.

I guess they think they have to keep running him out there and pray, because they can't afford to eat that money. My management-trained side says to look at it as a sunk cost, you have to pay it either way, and if he's gone he won't keep hurting the club, but emotionally you fear that he'll come out of it for someone else while you're paying him for them.

captain54
07-19-2011, 02:32 AM
I doubt Viciedo would win the Sox the division, but they should bench Dunn.

Ozzie was quoted a few weeks ago and saying that Dunn does him no good on the bench.. At this point you would have to wonder if Dunn is spiraling downward into the abyss and being negatively re-inforced by his continued failure.

Bob Roarman
07-19-2011, 03:15 AM
PK has 68 RBIs and Dunn has 36. How many more games would we have won if Dunn had as many ribbies as Paulie? No way of ever knowing but if it was only 5 games, which is not a stretch, we would be in first place right now.
He is 0 for 3 tonight with 2 more strikeouts and is now at .158 but lets stick with him, he should break out of this anyday now.

There is so much more that attributes to a team's stumbling than one player struggling. No matter how much that player is being paid, he's still just one player.

Johnny Mostil
07-19-2011, 06:03 AM
It's easy for fans to ignore the money they have sunk in this guy. Hell, other than move him down in the order, I don't know what I'd do. He isn't showing any signs of playing his way out of this (in fact, it's getting worse, last 28 days; .103 BA, .407 OPS, 33 strikeouts in 75 PA) but it certainly won't get better by not playing at all.

I guess they think they have to keep running him out there and pray, because they can't afford to eat that money. My management-trained side says to look at it as a sunk cost, you have to pay it either way, and if he's gone he won't keep hurting the club, but emotionally you fear that he'll come out of it for someone else while you're paying him for them.

I tend to agree with all this, but am baffled over why he hasn't been moved down the order. He seems to have had some modest success batting 7th (albeit in only 11 games) this year, and even in his career (albeit in only 37 games).

Dan H
07-19-2011, 08:22 AM
The stubborness of KW and Ozzie sticking with this guy and not bringing up Viciedo is going to cost us the division. This is almost 4 months of this. At one point you have to say **** it, sit the guy down and hope he comes back strong next year.

I agree with this. They keep saying he has to hit his way out of it, but he has shown no signs of snapping this season-long slump. Even if Viciedo doesn't hit well, I don't see him hitting in the .150's. The Sox offense is anemic; it needs something to give it a spark. I don't see the Sox taking this division with Dunn in the middle of the lineup.

hawkjt
07-19-2011, 09:11 AM
The next two games in KC are vs lefties. Drop Dunn down in the order,at least,or give him a couple of days off. Would love to see Rios and Dunn volunteer to go down to the minors and just play til they start to hit again,allowing the Sox to bring up Viciedo and another young outfielder. Try to catch lightning in a bottle from some fresh guys....I know,not gonna happen. It is mind-boggling at this point with both guys. I have never seen two highly paid guys struggle for 4 straight months like this...and just look hapless for 350+ at bats....they simply do not look like they will even run into one up there.

balke
07-19-2011, 09:46 AM
If you think he's overweight or out of shape - sitting on a bench won't help.

If you think he's lost his timing - sitting on the bench won't help.

If you think he's in a psychological rut - sitting on the bench won't help.

He's gotta take his cuts and hit a complete rock bottom to the point that he forgets he's even slumping and just strings together 2 weeks of good hitting.

I just stay sane through it all by asking "Would I rather have Dunn 100% or Viciedo"?

Until I see him do it on a major league level - Viciedo Doesn't have Dunn's peak potential.

RKMeibalane
07-19-2011, 10:03 AM
If you think he's overweight or out of shape - sitting on a bench won't help.

If you think he's lost his timing - sitting on the bench won't help.

If you think he's in a psychological rut - sitting on the bench won't help.

He's gotta take his cuts and hit a complete rock bottom to the point that he forgets he's even slumping and just strings together 2 weeks of good hitting.

I just stay sane through it all by asking "Would I rather have Dunn 100% or Viciedo"?

Until I see him do it on a major league level - Viciedo Doesn't have Dunn's peak potential.

I would agree with this if we could be certain that Dunn still has what it takes physically to be a productive hitter. Believe it or not, his rapid decline is not an unprecedented event in Major League Baseball, as there have been numerous hitters who, having had several successful seasons, suddenly found themselves unable to be productive. Perhaps Dunn has reached this point, and will never again approach the level of productivity he's displayed in the past.

harwar
07-19-2011, 10:53 AM
Frank White was saying last night that Dunn seems so in between on every pitch and that he's starting his bat so late, that it's unlikely that he will catch up to the ball

Harry Chappas
07-19-2011, 10:54 AM
If you think he's overweight or out of shape - sitting on a bench won't help.

If you think he's lost his timing - sitting on the bench won't help.

If you think he's in a psychological rut - sitting on the bench won't help.

He's gotta take his cuts and hit a complete rock bottom to the point that he forgets he's even slumping and just strings together 2 weeks of good hitting.

I just stay sane through it all by asking "Would I rather have Dunn 100% or Viciedo"?

Until I see him do it on a major league level - Viciedo Doesn't have Dunn's peak potential.

Viciedo DID do it on a major league level albeit for a short period of time. Much was made by his strikeouts, but his K rate was much better than Dunn's and he was only 21 with limited time in the minors.

Does anyone really believe Viciedo wouldn't hit at least .258 if they brought him up? That would be 100 points higher than Dunn. On it's own, .258 doesn't do much but when you consider what it would be replacing, it could mean a few more wins which could make a difference.

I don't expect Viciedo to come up and rake. He doesn't have to. He just needs to be average which would be a quantum leap over Dunn and his historically bad .158.

tstrike2000
07-19-2011, 10:56 AM
Frank White was saying last night that Dunn seems so in between on every pitch and that he's starting his bat so late, that it's unlikely that he will catch up to the ball

That seems to be the common thing I've heard and read with Dunn is that he's not catching up to the fastball. He takes pitches, can't catch up to the heater, then strikes out on the breaking pitch.

g0g0
07-19-2011, 11:37 AM
I would agree with this if we could be certain that Dunn still has what it takes physically to be a productive hitter. Believe it or not, his rapid decline is not an unprecedented event in Major League Baseball, as there have been numerous hitters who, having had several successful seasons, suddenly found themselves unable to be productive. Perhaps Dunn has reached this point, and will never again approach the level of productivity he's displayed in the past.

+1

He's 31 (and while that's not old by today's standards in the least), he's been around for 11 years grinding it out. I think that's one of the biggest question marks for big name hitters. I keep hearing about the Pujols sweepstakes, but it makes me pretty leery of investing long term. I guess only time will tell.

Max Power
07-19-2011, 11:49 AM
I just stay sane through it all by asking "Would I rather have Dunn 100% or Viciedo"?

Until I see him do it on a major league level - Viciedo Doesn't have Dunn's peak potential.

Viciedo did hit .308/.519/.840 in 104 ABs at the MLB level last season and swung the bat with authority. I have little doubt he would do better than Dunn's numbers so far this season.

TomBradley72
07-19-2011, 11:56 AM
Dunn is not showing any real signs of recovering-

I no longer buy the argument that we have to keep trotting Dunn out there every day to help "fix him"- with 10 weeks left in the regular season- the focus has to be on winning games- he should NEVER start vs. a LH starter. On those days- put Lillibridge in the OF/Vizquel in the IF and let one for the regulars (Rios/Quentin/TCM/Beckham) be the DH.

If we could dump Teahen- Viciedo would be the ideal DH vs. LHs.

Dunn's dismal output:

Last 7 days- .133/.235/.200
Last 14 days- .091/.211/.212
Last 28 days- .104/.200/.224

vs. Lefties- 2011- .031/.195/.031
(he hit .199 vs. LHs in 2010)

By Month-

April- .160/.300/.267
May- .204/.356/.387
June- .136/.240/.258
July- .100/.196/.240

(his batting average in August/Sepember 2010 .228, .223 in the 2nd half 2010 overall- so this is now a full year of mediocre production)

TDog
07-19-2011, 12:45 PM
The stubborness of KW and Ozzie sticking with this guy and not bringing up Viciedo is going to cost us the division. This is almost 4 months of this. At one point you have to say **** it, sit the guy down and hope he comes back strong next year.

There really isn't much choice. The Sox are pretty much doomed to stick with Dunn. It isn't as if they could trade him or even have a team pick him up on irrevocable waivers. Releasing Dunn would hurt the team as much as playing him is. The Dunn damage has already been done. The Sox could bring up Viciedo, but there isn't any way to vacate Dunn's roster spot. The Sox are probably carrying one too many pitchers, but that is a reflection of the team being built around pitching, as it should be.

The huge mistake was signing Dunn in the first place. I was really surprised more people didn't complain about it at the time.

LITTLE NELL
07-19-2011, 01:05 PM
Dunn is not showing any real signs of recovering-

I no longer buy the argument that we have to keep trotting Dunn out there every day to help "fix him"- with 10 weeks left in the regular season- the focus has to be on winning games- he should NEVER start vs. a LH starter. On those days- put Lillibridge in the OF/Vizquel in the IF and let one for the regulars (Rios/Quentin/TCM/Beckham) be the DH.

If we could dump Teahen- Viciedo would be the ideal DH vs. LHs.

Dunn's dismal output:

Last 7 days- .133/.235/.200
Last 14 days- .091/.211/.212
Last 28 days- .104/.200/.224

vs. Lefties- 2011- .031/.195/.031
(he hit .199 vs. LHs in 2010)

By Month-

April- .160/.300/.267
May- .204/.356/.387
June- .136/.240/.258
July- .100/.196/.240

(his batting average in August/Sepember 2010 .228, .223 in the 2nd half 2010 overall- so this is now a full year of mediocre production)

Those numbers are just horrible but I guess we will continue to trot out Mr. Automatic Out and hope he breaks out of his slump by the 28th of September.

It will be interesting on Sept 1 when the rosters are expanded up to 40 players. I'm sure Viciedo will be called up at that point and if Dunn is still in this horrible slump will the Sox DH with Viciedo the rest of the way?

JB98
07-19-2011, 01:25 PM
If you think he's overweight or out of shape - sitting on a bench won't help.

If you think he's lost his timing - sitting on the bench won't help.

If you think he's in a psychological rut - sitting on the bench won't help.

He's gotta take his cuts and hit a complete rock bottom to the point that he forgets he's even slumping and just strings together 2 weeks of good hitting.

I just stay sane through it all by asking "Would I rather have Dunn 100% or Viciedo"?

Until I see him do it on a major league level - Viciedo Doesn't have Dunn's peak potential.

Him sitting on the bench will help the team, though. As our manager often says, "**** feelings. It's about winning."

The Sox can't afford to wait for this guy much longer. The marathon will become a sprint shortly, and you can't have an automatic out batting fourth in a tight pennant race.

Noneck
07-19-2011, 01:35 PM
The Sox can't afford to wait for this guy much longer. The marathon will become a sprint shortly, and you can't have an automatic out batting fourth in a tight pennant race.

When and if that time comes, having 25 guys on the roster that can do something to help the club is very important. A hitter that cant hit, field or run kills a club because in reality they are playing with 1 man short. No I dont have an answer for this dilemma and I doubt anyone does.

guillensdisciple
07-19-2011, 01:51 PM
The deal here is here that you can put a person who hits .250 instead of him and he would be more serviceable than Adam Dunn is right now. We keep on waiting and then it will be us sitting with the stupid hat while watching the playoffs. Adam Dunn and Rios are both a waste of space right now and their potential is not worth it.

Harry Chappas
07-19-2011, 02:04 PM
There really isn't much choice. The Sox are pretty much doomed to stick with Dunn. It isn't as if they could trade him or even have a team pick him up on irrevocable waivers. Releasing Dunn would hurt the team as much as playing him is. The Dunn damage has already been done. The Sox could bring up Viciedo, but there isn't any way to vacate Dunn's roster spot. The Sox are probably carrying one too many pitchers, but that is a reflection of the team being built around pitching, as it should be.

The huge mistake was signing Dunn in the first place. I was really surprised more people didn't complain about it at the time.

It shouldn't be too difficult finding a guy to send down. I agree, we're stuck with Dunn but that doesn't mean we have to play him. If I were the Sox, I'd bring up Viciedo and hope like hell that Dunn fixes what ails him in the off-season and we get 3 good years out of him. This year, as far as Dunn is concerned, is bust. Why not try to salvage the season for the rest of the team and bring up a guy that might help out offensively for the stretch run?

Noneck
07-19-2011, 02:08 PM
Adam Dunn and Rios are both a waste of space right now and their potential is not worth it.


Yes they are but this isnt the nfl where you eat the rest of their salary for the year and move forward next year. Having their kind of salary on the books for years to come buries the future of this club.

I guess Rios would give the club some worth as a late inning defensive replacement or pinch runner. But we have to remember that Lillibridge will then become the every day centerfielder unless a deal can be made, which is very unlikely. Dunn on the other hand would just take up a very important roster spot.

Its a damned if they do and damned if they dont situation.

guillensdisciple
07-19-2011, 02:16 PM
Yes they are but this isnt the nfl where you eat the rest of their salary for the year and move forward next year. Having their kind of salary on the books for years to come buries the future of this club.

I guess Rios would give the club some worth as a late inning defensive replacement or pinch runner. But we have to remember that Lillibridge will then become the every day centerfielder unless a deal can be made, which is very unlikely. Dunn on the other hand would just take up a very important roster spot.

Its a damned if they do and damned if they dont situation.

I understand this but why can't an outfield of Pierre in Center and VIciedo in right be a good idea?

hawkjt
07-19-2011, 02:18 PM
Hate to say it,but Omar is the odd man out. Hire him as a coach,and bring up Viciedo. Let Lilly spell Alexei at SS occasionally. Put Viciedo in for Dunn vs all lefties,and he can spell Rios(with Pierre moving to center) vs righties. Must minimize at bats for Dunn and Rios til they hit.

Noneck
07-19-2011, 02:23 PM
I understand this but why can't an outfield of Pierre in Center and VIciedo in right be a good idea?

Well outside of the fact that good pitching needs good defense and the only reason the Sox are some what in the hunt is because of good pitching. Who is taken off the roster for Viciedo? How does a team compete in a pennant race with in reality a 24 man roster for 2 1/2 months?

eriqjaffe
07-19-2011, 03:12 PM
Hate to say it,but Omar is the odd man out. Hire him as a coach,and bring up Viciedo. Let Lilly spell Alexei at SS occasionally. Put Viciedo in for Dunn vs all lefties,and he can spell Rios(with Pierre moving to center) vs righties. Must minimize at bats for Dunn and Rios til they hit.I'd rather send Morel down, to be honest. He's not hitting, and can only play one position. Teahen, for all his defensive faults, is a more flexible player. It'd leave a pair of utility infielders in Vizquel and Lillibridge to provide a bench glove while opening up a spot for Viciedo.

Additionally, Morel still has options, so they have additional flexibility with him that they don't have with pretty much anybody else.

Nellie_Fox
07-19-2011, 04:08 PM
I understand this but why can't an outfield of Pierre in Center and VIciedo in right be a good idea?That would be a really bad defensive outfield. Pierre's weak arm gets taken advantage of in left; can you imagine what teams would do with him in center?

TDog
07-19-2011, 05:32 PM
Hate to say it,but Omar is the odd man out. Hire him as a coach,and bring up Viciedo. Let Lilly spell Alexei at SS occasionally. Put Viciedo in for Dunn vs all lefties,and he can spell Rios(with Pierre moving to center) vs righties. Must minimize at bats for Dunn and Rios til they hit.

Vizqel is needed for defense. The difference between Vizquel and Lillibridge at short (and I am a Lillibridge fan) is more than substantial. Poor defense has hurt this White Sox season more than the offense has. There isn't much they can do to improve the outfield defense, but there is plenty they could do to diminish the infield defense.

If you are going to send someone down, it needs to be a pitcher. Vizquel, Lillibridge, Morel have both offensive and defensive roles on the team. Even Teahen has played better at third this year and has become a defensive backup first baseman. The problem is that you have too many pitchers to carry a full-time DH, especially a full-time DH who doesn't hit.

Daver
07-19-2011, 05:53 PM
I understand this but why can't an outfield of Pierre in Center and VIciedo in right be a good idea?


Is it wrong that I found this amusing?

DumpJerry
07-19-2011, 05:54 PM
I understand this but why can't an outfield of Pierre in Center and VIciedo in right be a good idea?
Have you been watching the games? Yes, Pierre has a cannon for an arm, but, unfortunately, it is a cannon used in the American Revolution so it is a tad bit rusted.....

guillensdisciple
07-20-2011, 12:09 AM
I know all of this but at this point it is almost better to lose an arm out there that Rios never really uses anyway for a quality bat. It won't be as big a loss as you think considering Rios is not such a great defender and both have equal speed.

SephClone89
07-20-2011, 12:19 AM
I know all of this but at this point it is almost better to lose an arm out there that Rios never really uses anyway for a quality bat. It won't be as big a loss as you think considering Rios is not such a great defender and both have equal speed.

Rios's glove has been subpar this season, but you're insane if you think he's "not such a great defender." th difference between he and Pieree in the field is night and day.

DumpJerry
07-20-2011, 08:17 AM
I know all of this but at this point it is almost better to lose an arm out there that Rios never really uses anyway for a quality bat. It won't be as big a loss as you think considering Rios is not such a great defender and both have equal speed.
I'm assuming you're not a disciple of a Guillen named "Ozzie."

Deadguy
07-20-2011, 11:25 PM
He didn't have as many PAs as Adam has had this year, but Greg Vaughn's 2002 season was similar to Adam Dunn's 2011:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/vaughgr01.shtml

This happened at the end of his contract, so Tampa was able to cut their losses well before the season ended.

In this case, the White Sox have no other option but to keep putting Dunn in the lineup and hope that he can somehow turn it around.

I'm surprised free agency hasn't created more disasters like this.

From a pitching standpoint, I can't imagine any starting pitcher stringing together three worse years than Jaime Navarro's 1997-1999. He got 15 million from the White Sox for a -5.0 WAR!

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/navarja01.shtml

Rikirk
07-24-2011, 08:36 AM
I think Dunn will eventually get it together, I cant say when it will happen...but I believe it will. I cant give up on the guy just yet.

Maybe its being in such close proximity to Walker thats doing this to him.

slavko
07-24-2011, 01:05 PM
The reason his BA is a qualifying BA is that someone keeps playing him, right? No other option? We all know there's a sit-down option. Let's say we come to game 163 and a call-up DH is raking, who do you think will be the DH? So there is an option.

I hope we get to game 163 so my case can be proven. Otherwise, you guys may be right that they HAVE to keep playing him because of the $$$. What does logic tell you?

soxfan1965
07-29-2011, 07:20 AM
Article in today's NY Times: Keeping Score: Adam Dunnís Historically Bad Season:

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/keeping-score-adam-dunns-historically-bad-season/?ref=sports

bigdommer
07-29-2011, 09:11 AM
I know all of this but at this point it is almost better to lose an arm out there that Rios never really uses anyway for a quality bat. It won't be as big a loss as you think considering Rios is not such a great defender and both have equal speed.

Yes, but Rios CAN throw, meaning that teams have to respect it. Pierre CAN'T throw, and this is known across both leagues, so you would see teams run on him non-stop. I am sure the stat "nerds" could figure it out, but I would guess his arm in center could cost a half a run per game. It's one of those things that never shows up in the scorebook or the post-game show.

guillensdisciple
07-29-2011, 11:17 AM
Yes, but Rios CAN throw, meaning that teams have to respect it. Pierre CAN'T throw, and this is known across both leagues, so you would see teams run on him non-stop. I am sure the stat "nerds" could figure it out, but I would guess his arm in center could cost a half a run per game. It's one of those things that never shows up in the scorebook or the post-game show.


I am willing to guarantee you Rios has done absolutely nothing in center this year to contribute to the stat nerds that you speak.

Rios has been putrid both in Center and at the bat. And yes, the stats will back that up. It's okay though, the White Sox have found their solution for now.

daveeym
07-29-2011, 11:41 AM
I am willing to guarantee you Rios has done absolutely nothing in center this year to contribute to the stat nerds that you speak.

Rios has been putrid both in Center and at the bat. And yes, the stats will back that up. It's okay though, the White Sox have found their solution for now.

It's poorly written but I don't think that's what domer meant. And I hope it isn't because anyone better than a little leaguer should be playing over rios right now.

Lip Man 1
07-29-2011, 11:56 AM
Dunn told the Sun-Times in a story this morning that he's going to swing a bat a little bit before he comes to spring training next year. Apparently a hitting facility has opened up close to his new home in the Houston area.

Lip

ChiSoxGal85
07-29-2011, 12:39 PM
Dunn told the Sun-Times in a story this morning that he's going to swing a bat a little bit before he comes to spring training next year. Apparently a hitting facility has opened up close to his new home in the Houston area.

Lip
Good. Early in Dunn's struggles this year, I was surprised to read that he didn't swing a bat in the off season. I realize that it's worked for him up to now, but obviously something has to change.

balke
07-29-2011, 12:54 PM
Dunn told the Sun-Times in a story this morning that he's going to swing a bat a little bit before he comes to spring training next year. Apparently a hitting facility has opened up close to his new home in the Houston area.

Lip

I'm disappointed in Dunn this year but I'm glad he didn't get traded yet. You can't let him out of the DH role that easily because I think part of all of this came from his attitude about not being able to play the field. If this team forces itself to find another hitter to compensate - and Dunn comes back into form... the offense will be that much more deadly next year.

Fenway
07-30-2011, 05:12 PM
Watching Dunn you have to wonder if top to bottom the NL is that much weaker than the AL.

A. Cavatica
07-30-2011, 10:13 PM
Watching Dunn you have to wonder if top to bottom the NL is that much weaker than the AL.

If it is, we should clean up trading .160 hitters to the NL.

GlassSox
07-30-2011, 10:34 PM
Dunn told the Sun-Times in a story this morning that he's going to swing a bat a little bit before he comes to spring training next year. Apparently a hitting facility has opened up close to his new home in the Houston area.

Lip

Well now isn't that very generous of him. :?:

soxfan1965
08-05-2011, 03:39 PM
Adam Dunn was mentioned on the Colbert Report last night, around the 12:00 mark, along with Craig Counsell of the Brewers. Topic was the possibility of breaking the low BA record and most consecutive AB without a hit:
http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/thu-august-4-2011-anthony-bourdain

TomBradley72
08-05-2011, 03:52 PM
Dunn told the Sun-Times in a story this morning that he's going to swing a bat a little bit before he comes to spring training next year. Apparently a hitting facility has opened up close to his new home in the Houston area.

Lip

You'd think for $14M he'd follow Paulie's example and have a hitting facility in his house- LAST WINTER.

TomBradley72
08-05-2011, 04:09 PM
Watching Dunn you have to wonder if top to bottom the NL is that much weaker than the AL.

His career average in interleague play is .230- about 15 points below his overall career average- OBP and OPS are also close to overall career.

wassagstdu
08-05-2011, 06:25 PM
I'm disappointed in Dunn this year but I'm glad he didn't get traded yet. You can't let him out of the DH role that easily because I think part of all of this came from his attitude about not being able to play the field. If this team forces itself to find another hitter to compensate - and Dunn comes back into form... the offense will be that much more deadly next year.

Good idea. The more worthless high-priced deadbeats the Sox sign to untradeable contracts, the more good hitters they will have to acquire to compensate and the better team they will be. Why didn't I think of that?

Lip Man 1
08-05-2011, 06:33 PM
Gonzo in his Sox mailbag today is speculating on if Dunn's eyes are the problem because he seems so very late on swings and picking up pitches. He thinks he'll see a doc this off season.

Lip

Crestani
08-05-2011, 07:02 PM
Gonzo in his Sox mailbag today is speculating on if Dunn's eyes are the problem because he seems so very late on swings and picking up pitches. He thinks he'll see one this off season.

Lip


And the reason he hasn't is...???

soxinem1
08-06-2011, 10:39 AM
"....no, it's not too early to call him a bust."

it's the middle of july, we're 90 games into the season. So far this guy has been the biggest bust of the 2011 season.

Will he turn it around and start producing? I hope so. But i see absolutely no signs of that happening so far.

Apparently the sox will continue to march his sorry ass up to the plate on a regular basis to swing and miss. what bothers me is that they continue to hit him in the #3 slot or cleanup. Put him down in the order, #7 or #8, to somewhat minimize the damage of his ineffectiveness.

Bingo!!

soxinem1
08-06-2011, 10:42 AM
Good. Early in Dunn's struggles this year, I was surprised to read that he didn't swing a bat in the off season. I realize that it's worked for him up to now, but obviously something has to change.

Staying out of the dessert line at Old Country Buffet might help too.

34rancher
08-06-2011, 11:23 AM
Staying out of the dessert line at Old Country Buffet might help too.

Or just go somewhere that doesn't have an all you can eat buffet. Or at least eat at a salad buffet. Then see a doctor (which I can't believe that eye doctors are that difficult to find). Then work out in the offseason (and now). Then if none of that works, please quit.

He did say if baseball was not fun he would quit. Can we make it less fun?

JohnTucker0814
08-07-2011, 12:04 PM
Bingo!!

So if we move Dunn down to 7 or 8, who is hitting clean-up? Batting Dunn 4th behind Konerko and ahead of Quentin is the best opportunity to get Dunn great pitches to hit. Plus, are we going to put Morel or A.J. batting 4th... maybe Rios? ALL of our hitters pretty much suck other than the top 4 (Pierre, Ramirez, Konerko, Quentin).

shes
08-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Dunn has done nothing with those pitches to hit all season. He will continue to do nothing with those pitches for the rest of the year because something is severely wrong with him at the plate. Putting him at the 9 spot minimizes the number of at-bats he'll receive, which is at this point the most he can really offer when he's in the lineup.

balke
08-07-2011, 02:20 PM
Dunn has done nothing with those pitches to hit all season. He will continue to do nothing with those pitches for the rest of the year because something is severely wrong with him at the plate. Putting him at the 9 spot minimizes the number of at-bats he'll receive, which is at this point the most he can really offer when he's in the lineup.

I agreed with getting him the most at-bats possible to get him out of this funk. But enough is enough now - it's mid-August. Play him as little as possible and hide him at the bottom of the order. There's been countless times a bunt or sacfly would've scored a runner when Dunn strikes out.

He just looks like he's guessing - and even when he guesses right on a pitch he whiffs.

PKalltheway
08-07-2011, 02:56 PM
Watching Dunn you have to wonder if top to bottom the NL is that much weaker than the AL.
Sure, the NL may collectively be weaker than the AL, but that doesn't explain Dunn's struggles. Heck, your guy Adrian Gonzalez seems to be making the adjustment to the AL quite well.

vinny
08-07-2011, 10:45 PM
Look at Dan Uggla at #26. When Braves fans complain about Uggla, I remind them he looks like Tony ****ing Gwynn compared to Big Donkey.
Wouldn't it be nice if Dunn could piece together even a 10-game hitting streak? Uggla has come back from the dead since he's been on his tear.

Nellie_Fox
08-08-2011, 12:45 AM
Adam Dunn was mentioned on the Colbert Report last night, around the 12:00 mark, along with Craig Counsell of the Brewers. Topic was the possibility of breaking the low BA record and most consecutive AB without a hit:
http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/thu-august-4-2011-anthony-bourdainThe Twins' radio crew mentioned that he has now set a MLB all-time record for most games in a season with both no hits and three or more strikeouts.

NSFWSoxFan
08-08-2011, 01:13 AM
For those folks posting about Dunn seeing an eye doctor, I thought I heard somewhere that all the Sox players got eye exams in spring training.

Golden Sox
08-12-2011, 09:46 AM
Most baseball historians felt that the Brooklyn Dodgers did not win the 1946 pennant because they didn't bring up Jackie Robinson during the season. Are the White Sox going to miss the 2011 Playoffs because they didn't bring up Viciedo? Nobodys talking about this now, but its quite obvious that the White Sox are stuck with Adam Dunn. I can't help but wonder if in 2012 Adam Dunn gets off to another bad start, what will the White Sox do with him. If he's batting under 200 next year after May, will they finally bench him or release him? Also, don't wait until September to bring up Viciedo, bring him up now. Guillen said that Lillabridge will start being the DH against lefties. Wouldn't the White Sox be better off with Viciedo?

hi im skot
08-12-2011, 10:28 AM
Most baseball historians felt that the Brooklyn Dodgers did not win the 1946 pennant because they didn't bring up Jackie Robinson during the season. Are the White Sox going to miss the 2011 Playoffs because they didn't bring up Viciedo? Nobodys talking about this now, but its quite obvious that the White Sox are stuck with Adam Dunn. I can't help but wonder if in 2012 Adam Dunn gets off to another bad start, what will the White Sox do with him. If he's batting under 200 next year after May, will they finally bench him or release him?

Comparing Viciedo to Jackie Robinson? Really?

TDog
08-12-2011, 04:11 PM
Most baseball historians felt that the Brooklyn Dodgers did not win the 1946 pennant because they didn't bring up Jackie Robinson during the season. Are the White Sox going to miss the 2011 Playoffs because they didn't bring up Viciedo? Nobodys talking about this now, but its quite obvious that the White Sox are stuck with Adam Dunn. I can't help but wonder if in 2012 Adam Dunn gets off to another bad start, what will the White Sox do with him. If he's batting under 200 next year after May, will they finally bench him or release him?

I've never heard the Robinson thing seriously suggested. Considering the unique nature of Robinson's debut, I don't see how that would have been possible. Future White Sox manager Eddie Stanky was part of group that started a petition to try to keep Robinson off the team in the spring of 1947. Settling down the team to play as a team and accept Robinson in the spring was a challenge that wouldn't have been as easy to meet during a pennant race. After Robinson didn't go away, it was easier for black players to be signed and put into major league uniforms because, despite racism that didn't die, Robinson showed that integration was going to happen. Before he had some success, not many people believed that. The Sporting News editorialized against Robinson being allowed to play in the majors but by the end of the season praised him as their Rookie of the Year.

If the White Sox could afford to release Dunn, this wouldn't be an issue. But they can't because they would still have to pay him.

Unlike 1947 and Robinson, the White Sox will bring up Viciedo in September.

ClawsDeep
08-12-2011, 04:31 PM
For the second year in a row, a qualified MLB batter may have as many strikeouts as his batting average times 1000.

Mark Reynolds did it last year; 211 Ks and a .198 BA.

TDog
08-12-2011, 05:43 PM
For the second year in a row, a qualified MLB batter may have as many strikeouts as his batting average times 1000.

Mark Reynolds did it last year; 211 Ks and a .198 BA.

If Mark Reynolds' slump continues, he may achieve the same distinction this year, although about two weeks ago he was producing what Adam Dunn was supposed to be producing for the White Sox this year, with a few fewer walks.

kittle42
08-13-2011, 03:26 PM
The Onion on our friend Mr. Dunn:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/with-163-average-adam-dunn-no-longer-considered-a,21121/

Fenway
08-15-2011, 04:16 PM
put the mustache back on

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/uploaded_images/DSCF3466-783992.JPG

eriqjaffe
08-15-2011, 04:26 PM
I wouldn't mind putting him back in a Reds uniform, either.

GlassSox
08-15-2011, 04:49 PM
The Onion on our friend Mr. Dunn:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/with-163-average-adam-dunn-no-longer-considered-a,21121/

The Onion is right on once again :lol: