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View Full Version : Could YOU manage this team better than Ozzie?


delben91
07-17-2011, 09:45 PM
Now, I think there are many managerial candidates out there that could, but that isn't the question. I'm honestly wondering (in a non-snarky way), if anyone on this site actually believes they would be a better manager for this team than Ozzie, and if so, why? :cool:

DumpJerry
07-17-2011, 09:52 PM
This thread will get interesting (and predictable) very fast.

JermaineDye05
07-17-2011, 09:57 PM
Though I constantly question Ozzie, I know for a fact that I cannot manage the team better than him.

I do believe that there are other managers in baseball that could manage better than him right now.

SoxSpeed22
07-17-2011, 10:00 PM
I would not know the first thing about managing a baseball team, so no.

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-17-2011, 10:00 PM
I know I could do just as good of a job. Maybe a bit better. Then again, most if the problems come from the players themselves. I would take Rios/Dunn out or at least make them the 8-9 hitters.

Gavin
07-17-2011, 10:02 PM
Hell yeah I could! Just the other day I was playing MVP 2005 and I was winning games left and right! With my gamepad! On my XBOX! It was soooo easy.

Noneck
07-17-2011, 10:08 PM
I honestly dont know what is a managers respondsiblity is anymore. With a batting coach, a bench coach, pitching coach, a fielding coach, bull pen coach, a conditioning coach, 1st and 3rd base coaches and I am sure I am missing some, I dont know what a manager does anymore. If you have a competent staff and things go well you sit back and take the credit, if things go bad you take the heat and try to get better people to do their and your job. If players arent doing well, you ask your coaches who they think should be substituted for that player. If you need players you ask the GM to please get you some. You talk to the media and you talk to them the way politicians do to the media.

I am kind of serious on this issue, it doesnt seem like a difficult job now a days if you have a good staff.

WhiteSox5187
07-17-2011, 10:12 PM
Though I constantly question Ozzie, I know for a fact that I cannot manage the team better than him.

I do believe that there are other managers in baseball that could manage better than him right now.

That's the way I view it, I sure as hell couldn't manage this team any better than Ozzie but I suspect there are some current and former managers out there who could. I really don't think I could manage a little league team.

hi im skot
07-17-2011, 10:17 PM
This reminds me of the thread where many folks here claimed they could get a hit off of a major league pitcher if given 100 pitches.

voodoochile
07-17-2011, 10:20 PM
This thread will get interesting (and predictable) very fast.

It needed a poll. I have added one.

Votes are public, so come on let your freak out...

JB98
07-17-2011, 10:23 PM
Churros!

Dirty30
07-17-2011, 10:26 PM
Oops. Click the wrong option on my iPad how can I change it to the second option?

spawn
07-17-2011, 10:34 PM
**** no. I can't even manage my own household.

RKMeibalane
07-17-2011, 10:37 PM
No.

Rocky Soprano
07-17-2011, 10:37 PM
**** no. I can't even manage my own household.

:roflmao:
Same here!

BainesHOF
07-17-2011, 11:11 PM
I would put together better lineups, handle the pitching staff better, make sure the team practiced the fundamentals until they'd execute them during games, and manage game strategy better. I would also make sure the team hustled. I would not embarrass the team in media sessions and I'd stay off social media and concentrate on managing the team.

Then again, most people who know baseball would do this. It's not rocket science.

soltrain21
07-17-2011, 11:20 PM
Who is my bench coach?

Zakath
07-17-2011, 11:30 PM
In terms of handling the players, I don't know if I could handle the egos.

In terms of some of the game situations, there are probably millions of people who could manage better than Ozzie. He's really made some bone-headed calls lately.

Rohan
07-17-2011, 11:39 PM
**** no. I can't even manage my own household.

:rolling:

The people that said yes must either be kidding themselves or kidding with us. I sure hope so anyway.

DirtySox
07-17-2011, 11:44 PM
Yes, but I'm drunk.

delben91
07-17-2011, 11:45 PM
Yes, but I'm drunk.

:thumbsup:

thomas35forever
07-17-2011, 11:51 PM
When I played ball as a kid, I was always the kid who batted last and was usually placed in right field. If that's not enough to disqualify me from consideration, I don't know what is.

Zakath
07-18-2011, 12:06 AM
When I played ball as a kid, I was always the kid who batted last and was usually placed in right field. If that's not enough to disqualify me from consideration, I don't know what is.

But just think of all the quality observation time you got out there...

Nellie_Fox
07-18-2011, 12:19 AM
But just think of all the quality observation time you got out there...I've seen a lot of little league games. The right fielder is usually squatted down, poking at an anthill with a stick.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 01:05 AM
Oops. Click the wrong option on my iPad how can I change it to the second option?

I can change the vote count but not the names. So you can't.

PeteWard
07-18-2011, 01:57 AM
Maybe when I was younger, but nowadays I can barely manage an erection.

MeteorsSox4367
07-18-2011, 02:14 AM
I'll go with no. I love the game, but my Tweeting skills are for crap.

Dan H
07-18-2011, 04:38 AM
I can't manage a major league baseball team, but then again Ozzie can't do my job anywhere near as well as I can. So I guess we're even on that one.

The real issue is this: Do major changes need to be made with the White Sox? I believe they do because this is not a playoff caliber club and won't be unless some decisive action is taken.

Zakath
07-18-2011, 05:43 AM
I've seen a lot of little league games. The right fielder is usually squatted down, poking at an anthill with a stick.

Future biology majors.

tstrike2000
07-18-2011, 07:57 AM
I don't have the skill set to be an MLB manager, but I know we could find one.

DSpivack
07-18-2011, 09:42 AM
I've seen a lot of little league games. The right fielder is usually squatted down, poking at an anthill with a stick.

I don't remember any anthills, I think I just played with blades of grass or something. I think I even fell asleep once.

kittle42
07-18-2011, 10:01 AM
Any of us who thinks he/she can manage a team better than a guy who is a professional baseball manager is dumber than Ozzie.

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 10:18 AM
I've seen a lot of little league games. The right fielder is usually squatted down, poking at an anthill with a stick.

Classic observation Nellie... Ant hills, clover pickers,fire fly chasers.. they run the whole gamut.. And now batting 8th and playing right field.. Poindexter Talentchallenged...

Funny thing though through my years of playing, the ball always seemed to find this kid at the most innopourtune time.. Always a blooper film highlite.

Could I manage this team? Hell yes... If I can and have corralled Little Leaguers, Pop Warners and Pee Wee Puckheads this would be a day in the park..

Coached or Captained at all levels till my late 40's... Have dealt a lot with the Human Picadillos along the way as well.. Simple, Play your ass of and I've got no problems.. If you can't figure it out I'll give you time to think it through...You're supposed to have the shiney tools,thats why we paid full price for ya.. Get out the stone and start filing the iron..

In reality this is a dream line up... It turns into a nightmare on ocasion.. tweek the piss out of it and I think "THE EDSEL" would run on all cylinders.

Again, Hell yes...

BK59

WhiteSox1989
07-18-2011, 10:27 AM
I'm going to go with no.

Huisj
07-18-2011, 10:38 AM
If a 12-year-old (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Big_League) could get the Twins in contention in the early 90s, I'm sure most of us could do it. How hard could it be? The AL has the DH.

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 10:38 AM
Any of us who thinks he/she can manage a team better than a guy who is a professional baseball manager is dumber than Ozzie.


Help me out with this one... Of all of the Mgr's, ex-players or not, what makes them more qualified than someone who is a student of the game and understands the idiosyncratic nature of it..

If a Mrg was so valuable and a sage that controls his team, why doesnt the team just load up the equipment and forfeit a game when they get tossed in the 4th inning? Oh Nooooooo.... We dont have a manager !!!!! What do we do?????

BK59

kittle42
07-18-2011, 10:41 AM
Help me out with this one... Of all of the Mgr's, ex-players or not, what makes them more qualified than someone who is a student of the game and understands the idiosyncratic nature of it..

The next time a guy walks in off the street with no professional baseball exposure and gets hired as a field manager...

If a Mrg was so valuable and a sage that controls his team, why doesnt the team just load up the equipment and forfeit a game when they get tossed in the 4th inning? Oh Nooooooo.... We dont have a manager !!!!! What do we do?????

Because bench coaches and pitching coaches are at least qualified enough to manage a partial game, same as when a manager has to take a leave of absence for a few days. You are comparing professional coaches to fans off the street.

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-18-2011, 10:48 AM
I would put together better lineups, handle the pitching staff better, make sure the team practiced the fundamentals until they'd execute them during games, and manage game strategy better. I would also make sure the team hustled. I would not embarrass the team in media sessions and I'd stay off social media and concentrate on managing the team.

Then again, most people who know baseball would do this. It's not rocket science.

hahaha thank you

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-18-2011, 10:52 AM
Any of us who thinks he/she can manage a team better than a guy who is a professional baseball manager is dumber than Ozzie.

This is ridiculous. All major league guys started somewhere to ya know...

DumpJerry
07-18-2011, 10:54 AM
Fewer yes votes than I expected, but the poll is still young......

SOXSINCE'70
07-18-2011, 10:59 AM
Though I constantly question Ozzie, I know for a fact that I cannot manage the team better than him.



Neither can I. :(: I wish I had answers,but I don't.

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 11:01 AM
The next time a guy walks in off the street with no professional baseball exposure and gets hired as a field manager...



Because bench coaches and pitching coaches are at least qualified enough to manage a partial game, same as when a manager has to take a leave of absence for a few days. You are comparing professional coaches to fans off the street.


I appreciate your fine tuning and zeroing in on the fact of the man on the street arguement.. Thats not what's being asked in this poll. The question being asked is if any of us could manage this team and I'm saying, Sure I would give it a shot if the oppourtunity presented itself..


Atleast qualified enough means they are an interchangable part... Thats the whole premise of this discussion. All have the knowledge of the game as do we who have the same situational experiences at all levels along the way..

Same reason I had a guy with as much Ball, Bladder, Puck sense coach along side myself.. So if I had a "Mental Moment", he could rally the troops and forge on..

So yes, Joe Blow baseball maven off of the street could "Manage" a team.. Were not asking him to bat .401, hit 78 Hr's and throw a 100 MPH fast ball..

BK59

GoGoCrede
07-18-2011, 11:13 AM
The always-present churro option on WSI is one of my favorite things about this site.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 11:35 AM
Help me out with this one... Of all of the Mgr's, ex-players or not, what makes them more qualified than someone who is a student of the game and understands the idiosyncratic nature of it..

If a Mrg was so valuable and a sage that controls his team, why doesnt the team just load up the equipment and forfeit a game when they get tossed in the 4th inning? Oh Nooooooo.... We dont have a manager !!!!! What do we do?????

BK59

Well they still have coaches and managing one game without your manager is not the same as managing a season with some message board poster at the helm.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 11:36 AM
This is ridiculous. All major league guys started somewhere to ya know...

Yes, but very few if any have walked in out of the stands with no experience. This isn't movie...

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 11:40 AM
Well they still have coaches and managing one game without your manager is not the same as managing a season with some message board poster at the helm.

What? The message board poster may ask for accountability? I think a lot on here are hung up with a fear factor and would be surprised at what they could accomplish if the focus was there..

BK59

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 11:45 AM
What? The message board poster may ask for accountability? I think a lot on here are hung up with a fear factor and would be surprised at what they could accomplish if the focus was there..

BK59

You are missing so much of the big picture here, it's hilarious.

There's a **** ton more to running a MLB team than filling out a lineup card.

I admit to being impressed with the way you are defending your position so vehemently, but man any team managed by you would finish dead last year after year after year, and after the third (or maybe midway through the first) you'd be gone.

CLR01
07-18-2011, 11:56 AM
and after the third (or maybe midway through the first) you'd be gone.


Slow down, he would be managing the White Sox.

The Milkman
07-18-2011, 11:58 AM
**** no. I can't even manage my own household.

Neither can Ozzie.

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 11:59 AM
You are missing so much of the big picture here, it's hilarious.

There's a **** ton more to running a MLB team than filling out a lineup card.

I admit to being impressed with the way you are defending your position so vehemently, but man any team managed by you would finish dead last year after year after year, and after the third (or maybe midway through the first) you'd be gone.

And you think I dont realize this... I know there is more than just filling out a Line up card in play here.. Do you think Peter Gammon's would eat my lunch, or I would turn into a babbling idiot in front of Hawk? (That job's already been taken)

I think you are making up Booogie Men so's the faithful here keep walking the line of uncertainty.

You are making an assumption that maybe I'm a jock sniffer with no clue and still have my knees shake when I look up at Floyd Robinson or Ken Berry, or piss my pants when Bobby Hull's meathook crushes my wee little hand...

Dead Last, eh? Oh ye of little faith...

I so happy I amuse you...

BK59

CLR01
07-18-2011, 12:01 PM
Neither can Ozzie.

:lol:

A lot of similarities between WSI members and Ozzie.

hi im skot
07-18-2011, 12:03 PM
Slow down, he would be managing the White Sox.

I LOLed.

Rocky Soprano
07-18-2011, 12:04 PM
Neither can Ozzie.

Post Of The Year!
Very nicely done!

GoGoCrede
07-18-2011, 12:07 PM
Neither can Ozzie.

Oh snap. Brilliantly played.

Huisj
07-18-2011, 12:21 PM
It seems like the biggest problem would be managing the egos and personalities of the players and trying to ignore the pressure from complaints from players, fans, media, upper management, etc. Sure, if you could be an anonymous black box that worked invisibly from behind a wall and all you did was make lineup changes and decide who to pitch when, that would be one thing--we could all do that in a video game or in a vacuum where there's nothing else going on. But try doing that when you have relievers with tired arms, hitters making lots of money in slumps, or fielders dealing with nagging injuries or other problems and everyone in a city of a few millions complaining about every decision you make without them knowing what you know from being on the inside of things. That sounds hard and stressful to me.

Or, consider telling a 30 year old with a $14 million/year contract that he's going to be benched for a while when you are a nobody with no real experience other than being a fan. That player comes in your office and challenges you on it. What do you say when he's pissed and pressuring you to give him his playing time back? I think I'd cave in from fear and intimidation.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 12:25 PM
And you think I dont realize this... I know there is more than just filling out a Line up card in play here.. Do you think Peter Gammon's would eat my lunch, or I would turn into a babbling idiot in front of Hawk? (That job's already been taken)

I think you are making up Booogie Men so's the faithful here keep walking the line of uncertainty.

You are making an assumption that maybe I'm a jock sniffer with no clue and still have my knees shake when I look up at Floyd Robinson or Ken Berry, or piss my pants when Bobby Hull's meathook crushes my wee little hand...

Dead Last, eh? Oh ye of little faith...

I so happy I amuse you...

BK59

Not worried about you being nervous but earning their respect does strike me as difficult...

kittle42
07-18-2011, 12:42 PM
And you think I dont realize this... I know there is more than just filling out a Line up card in play here.. Do you think Peter Gammon's would eat my lunch, or I would turn into a babbling idiot in front of Hawk? (That job's already been taken)

I think you are making up Booogie Men so's the faithful here keep walking the line of uncertainty.

You are making an assumption that maybe I'm a jock sniffer with no clue and still have my knees shake when I look up at Floyd Robinson or Ken Berry, or piss my pants when Bobby Hull's meathook crushes my wee little hand...

Dead Last, eh? Oh ye of little faith...

I so happy I amuse you...

BK59

Horsemaster Fred?

spawn
07-18-2011, 12:43 PM
Neither can Ozzie.

Nicely done! :thumbsup:

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-18-2011, 12:48 PM
Yes, but very few if any have walked in out of the stands with no experience. This isn't movie...

I agree. But I have experience that is the thing. Baseball is a "job" and it involves experience just like any other job.

Also, the question is can YOU manage and the answer when directed to me is...YES. Others obviously have a different story.

DumpJerry
07-18-2011, 12:49 PM
I agree. But I have experience that is the thing. Baseball is a "job" and it involves experience just like any other job.
You have experience managing a MLB team?

I always wondered if Piniella was a WSI poster........

captain54
07-18-2011, 01:03 PM
It is, at times, painful to even watch the games let alone manage the team.

Anyone that has followed Ozzie through the years can see that he's not exactly a Rhodes Scholar. I would think with 30 + years of professional baseball experience under your belt, you would be able to figure out how to manage a team

For anyone that doubts that they are qualified to manage a MLB team, I have two words for you....

Terry Bevington

kittle42
07-18-2011, 01:03 PM
You have experience managing a MLB team?

I always wondered if Piniella was a WSI poster........

Or maybe there is a Choose Your Own Adventure series for adults?

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-18-2011, 01:07 PM
You have experience managing a MLB team?

I always wondered if Piniella was a WSI poster........

I am not even respond to this

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 01:12 PM
Not worried about you being nervous but earning their respect does strike me as difficult...

Same as dealing with any "NEW" boss on the job.. Now you do make them sound like prima donnas.. They will throw their character and integrity out the door, dog it, because respect would be unattainable because I am not part of some "CLUB".. If we were talking about any other part of society this would fringe on "exclusionism"..

So's when the GM say's hey boys ya gotta new Skipper, they take down the tent, thumb their nose at the fandom and become Philadelphia Lawyers because the glove dont fit.. and pout..

Last time I checked accountabilty worked both ways.

High priced immaturity... and we wonder why sometimes the "Chemistry" is never found..

Wow, better up my Wheaties intake to two bowls a day to overcome any deficencys in personell relations... Maybe if I can morph into Willford Brimley and pick up the moniker "Pops", Respect may find its way into the situation:D:

BK59

kittle42
07-18-2011, 01:16 PM
I am not even respond to this

Why not? I'd be interested to hear what kind of experience a 24 year-old has managing. Or is it that you are so close to the action from those season tickets in Row A that you basically have more experience than the average fan?

I, for one, *always* put Mark McGwire in for Bill Schroeder when playing as the AL All-Stars in RBI Baseball. Experience!

PalehosePlanet
07-18-2011, 01:31 PM
Voted Yes only as a symbolic anti-Ozzie gesture.

Rocky Soprano
07-18-2011, 01:31 PM
Why not? I'd be interested to hear what kind of experience a 24 year-old has managing. Or is it that you are so close to the action from those season tickets in Row A that you basically have more experience than the average fan?

I, for one, *always* put Mark McGwire in for Bill Schroeder when playing as the AL All-Stars in RBI Baseball. Experience!

Don't you know who you are talking to?
He used to work in the clubhouse!!!
How many people can say that?
Plus he plays baseball!!!
He totally has the experience to be the next manager!

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 01:46 PM
Don't you know who you are talking to?
He used to work in the clubhouse!!!
How many people can say that?
Plus he plays baseball!!!
He totally has the experience to be the next manager!

Rumour has it that when Oz got tossed one game, Coop and the boys,faces paralyzed in fright, screamed..'Hey kid !!!! What should we do now?????.. :D:

BK59

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-18-2011, 01:52 PM
This is exactly why I do not want to share anything.

DumpJerry
07-18-2011, 01:53 PM
I am not even respond to this
So, you don't have experience and you're not Lou Piniella?

What is the depth and breadth of your massive experience you allude to?

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-18-2011, 01:53 PM
Rumour has it that when Oz got tossed one game, Coop and the boys,faces paralyzed in fright, screamed..'Hey kid !!!! What should we do now?????.. :D:

BK59

Half-way there. It all started when Ozzie said "you should be the batboy".

kittle42
07-18-2011, 01:54 PM
Half-way there. It all started when Ozzie said "you should be the batboy".

But what about Bafia!?

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-18-2011, 01:57 PM
But what about Bafia!?

He is still there...

Getting rid of Strubin was THE mistake.

BTW, I keep hearing about this Bafia on here or was on here any connection to the batboy?

DumpJerry
07-18-2011, 02:02 PM
BTW, I keep hearing about this Bafia on here or was on here any connection to the batboy?
Probably not on here since Sox employees are not allowed to be on here (per team policy, not ours). We have a poster who has the name "Bafia" as part of her username, but she is not him.

kittle42
07-18-2011, 02:04 PM
BTW, I keep hearing about this Bafia on here or was on here any connection to the batboy?

No, but I am pretty convinced that if Bafia and Dunn switched jobs, we couldn't tell the difference.

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-18-2011, 02:05 PM
Probably not on here since Sox employees are not allowed to be on here (per team policy, not ours). We have a poster who has the name "Bafia" as part of her username, but she is not him.

No, but I am pretty convinced that if Bafia and Dunn switched jobs, we couldn't tell the difference.

Okay, thanks guys.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 02:12 PM
I agree. But I have experience that is the thing. Baseball is a "job" and it involves experience just like any other job.

Also, the question is can YOU manage and the answer when directed to me is...YES. Others obviously have a different story.

Okay. I just find it amusing how many people actually think they can do it successfully.

Unless people are voting yes and expecting to fail.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 02:13 PM
It is, at times, painful to even watch the games let alone manage the team.

Anyone that has followed Ozzie through the years can see that he's not exactly a Rhodes Scholar. I would think with 30 + years of professional baseball experience under your belt, you would be able to figure out how to manage a team

For anyone that doubts that they are qualified to manage a MLB team, I have two words for you....

Terry Bevington

If you can do the job only as "well" as Terry then you aren't qualified...

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 02:18 PM
Same as dealing with any "NEW" boss on the job.. Now you do make them sound like prima donnas.. They will throw their character and integrity out the door, dog it, because respect would be unattainable because I am not part of some "CLUB".. If we were talking about any other part of society this would fringe on "exclusionism"..

So's when the GM say's hey boys ya gotta new Skipper, they take down the tent, thumb their nose at the fandom and become Philadelphia Lawyers because the glove dont fit.. and pout..

Last time I checked accountabilty worked both ways.

High priced immaturity... and we wonder why sometimes the "Chemistry" is never found..

Wow, better up my Wheaties intake to two bowls a day to overcome any deficencys in personell relations... Maybe if I can morph into Willford Brimley and pick up the moniker "Pops", Respect may find its way into the situation:D:

BK59

LOL no... it's not about them pouting it's that people who do something on a level that only 0.0000125% of the world's population can do at that level expect the people who lead you to have at least some qualifications and a job history that puts them in a similar echelon of potential managerial talent.

Being able to turn to the bench coach for advice every time you run into something you don't know the answer to isn't exactly a job skill.

captain54
07-18-2011, 02:37 PM
If you can do the job only as "well" as Terry then you aren't qualified...

The infallible White Sox organization, that you so frequently defend, hired Bevington and felt he was qualified in that capacity so I'm not quite sure what your point is.

kittle42
07-18-2011, 02:39 PM
The infallible White Sox organization, that you so frequently defend, hired Bevington and felt he was qualified in that capacity so I'm not quite sure what your point is.

While I frequently disagree with his stance on the organization, voodoo has never said the Sox are infallible. Yet another tired example of taking someone's position to the extreme just to have an easier "other side of the argument."

Crestani
07-18-2011, 02:42 PM
I have a hard enough time managing my own employees..!!

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 02:45 PM
The infallible White Sox organization, that you so frequently defend, hired Bevington and felt he was qualified in that capacity so I'm not quite sure what your point is.

Well I have the advantage of hindsight. They didn't when they hired him. You do though, so using him now as an example of why people with no experience are currently qualified doesn't surprise me though as it fits your agenda to ignore that hindsight and act as if the team knew he would suck when they hired him so now they should hire someone who will only suck marginally less.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 02:47 PM
While I frequently disagree with his stance on the organization, voodoo has never said the Sox are infallible. Yet another tired example of taking someone's position to the extreme just to have an easier "other side of the argument."

You are ignoring him cherrypicking the worst manager the Sox have maybe ever employed as a justification for him and others being qualified. That's about as extreme as it gets.

Heck, I don't even think Ozzie is above reproach, I just think it's ROFLCOPTER funny that so many folks think they can do his job...

Tragg
07-18-2011, 02:59 PM
I know that I couldn't manage this team worth a hoot.
That said, I think most fans could make better strategic decisions and evaluate talent more accurately than Guillen. But that may be because Ozzie's biases are known, and we each have our own preferences and biases which would show up.
However, there's a ton more involved in managing a baseball team.

captain54
07-18-2011, 03:04 PM
Well I have the advantage of hindsight. They didn't when they hired him. You do though, so using him now as an example of why people with no experience are currently qualified doesn't surprise me though as it fits your agenda to ignore that hindsight and act as if the team knew he would suck when they hired him so now they should hire someone who will only suck marginally less.

I will retract the statement that you frequently defend the White Sox organization as infallible. In all fairness, that's a statment I really can't back up. My bad.

I guess the point I was clumsily attempting to make was that being a manager of a MLB team couldn't be all that complicated if a Terry Bevington could have actually, at one point, collected a paycheck doing it

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 03:04 PM
LOL no... it's not about them pouting it's that people who do something on a level that only .00000125% of the world's population can do at that level expect the people who lead you to have at least some qualifications and a job history that puts them in a similar echelon of potential managerial talent.

Being able to turn to the bench coach for advice every time you run into something you don't know the answer to isn't exactly a job skill.

I'm not cutting a hole in someones head here.... Trick reponse on your part.. I would think even the best Manager illicits advice from his coaches from time to time concerning player issues..

Again, what would the answer be I would be looking for? If you'd coached at any level for any amount of time, where would the boogie men pop out at? They using a square ball these days?

Getting back to the original query of this poll..

Could you manage this Team better than Ozzie Guillen?

Yes... I didnt think I would have to deal with someones pompus insecurities with a paid your dues mindset. I think it would take me one meeting to learn the 'Secret Handshake"..

This stuff happens all the time.. You see all those hapless sods who "paid their dues" overlooked for the job, standing there with their finger up their butt, when Johnny Hotshot gets hired in from the outside.. Dont recall everybody asking for severance when that stuff happens..

00000125%..... yep, maybe more out there, just not right place... right time..

BK59

Daver
07-18-2011, 03:07 PM
Heck, I don't even think Ozzie is above reproach, I just think it's ROFLCOPTER funny that so many folks think they can do his job...

I'm reminded of a line from a CS&N song "We never failed to fail, it was the easiest thing to do"

Johnny Mostil
07-18-2011, 03:08 PM
This reminds me of the thread where many folks here claimed they could get a hit off of a major league pitcher if given 100 pitches.

Me, too, though I wonder which would be easier to learn. (I don't expect I'd ever master either.)

No, but I am pretty convinced that if Bafia and Dunn switched jobs, we couldn't tell the difference.

Bafia is 6'6", 285#?:?:

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 03:11 PM
I'm not cutting a hole in someones head here.... Trick reponse on your part.. I would think even the best Manager illicits advice from his coaches from time to time concerning player issues..

Again, what would the answer be I would be looking for? If you'd coached at any level for any amount of time, where would the boogie men pop out at? They using a square ball these days?

Getting back to the original query of this poll..

Could you manage this Team better than Ozzie Guillen?

Yes... I didnt think I would have to deal with someones pompus insecurities with a paid your dues mindset. I think it would take me one meeting to learn the 'Secret Handshake"..

This stuff happens all the time.. You see all those hapless sods who "paid their dues" overlooked for the job, standing there with their finger up their butt, when Johnny Hotshot gets hired in from the outside.. Dont recall everybody asking for severance when that stuff happens..

00000125%..... yep, maybe more out there, just not right place... right time..

BK59

Feel free to double that number to 1500 people world wide. Heck Make it an even 10000 just lacking the training or a scout to find them it doesn't change the fact it's a ridiculously small number of people who can play at a MLB level.

I'll just walk away now, because we won't come to a meeting of the minds. I think you're wrong and yes while the ball remains a sphere, I don't think managing a MLB team is the same as coaching even a HS team, not even close and a major part of that is the personalities/egos involved, not to mention the press and all the rabid fans of whom apparently ~30% of them think they can do the job better than you.

And I never said that managers never ask for advice I would assume they do regularly, but I doubt Ozzie does it as often as you would by a factor of 10...

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 03:16 PM
I will retract the statement that you frequently defend the White Sox organization as infallible. In all fairness, that's a statment I really can't back up. My bad.

I guess the point I was clumsily attempting to make was that being a manager of a MLB team couldn't be all that complicated if a Terry Bevington could have actually, at one point, collected a paycheck doing it

First let me say that I accept your retraction...:tongue:

Second, again, you miss the point. Yes, Terry Bevington got paid to be a MLB manager. That doesn't change the fact that now in hindsight we know Terry Bevington was the worst manager maybe in the history of the franchise. So if your point is that it's not that hard to be the worst manager in the history of the Sox, I agree. In fact I think all of the people on these forums voting yes would rapidly move Terry up the ladder from worst to second worst or higher if the Sox just went back to back and started hiring random WSI posters who's only claim to the job is that they are convinced Ozzie sucks and they can do a better job.

kittle42
07-18-2011, 03:17 PM
Another ridiculous thing: people aren't even arguing that a college or even high-school-level coach could do a better job...they are arguing that a Sox fan could do a better job!

That being said, I'm kind of pleasantly surprised that this thread isn't more over-the-top than it already is.

voodoochile
07-18-2011, 03:17 PM
I'm reminded of a line from a CS&N song "We never failed to fail, it was the easiest thing to do"

Maybe we should all teach our children well to be baseball managers from a young age...

Chez
07-18-2011, 03:28 PM
Second, again, you miss the point. Yes, Terry Bevington got paid to be a MLB manager. That doesn't change the fact that now in hindsight we know Terry Bevington was the worst manager maybe in the history of the franchise. .

Not to change the subject of the thread (and, like others, I find it baffling that many posters think they could manage the White Sox better than Ozzie), but Terry Bevington is universally regarded as the worst manager in franchise history -- no argument from me -- he was terrible. And yet the Sox were actually above .500 during his tenure (222-214). That's a better winning pct. than, for example, both Tony La Russa and Chuck Tanner had with the Sox -- and only .002 below that of Eddie Stanky. Not too many managers who have career records above .500 never get a second managerial job. I suppose that shows just how bad he was -- he never got another shot even though his team's record was above .500.

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 03:33 PM
Feel free to double that number to 1500 people world wide. Heck Make it an even 10000 just lacking the training or a scout to find them it doesn't change the fact it's a ridiculously small number of people who can play at a MLB level.

I'll just walk away now, because we won't come to a meeting of the minds. I think you're wrong and yes while the ball remains a sphere, I don't think managing a MLB team is the same as coaching even a HS team, not even close and a major part of that is the personalities/egos involved, not to mention the press and all the rabid fans of whom apparently ~30% of them think they can do the job better than you.

And I never said that managers never ask for advice I would assume they do regularly, but I doubt Ozzie does it as often as you would by a factor of 10...

Factor of 10... Thanks for the pat on the back... I guess I wont need that tin foil hat after all to fine tune those cranial signals.. Thanks for the assumption that I would need to take a course in spec ops waterboarding to deal with the mental stresses of the job.. You make it sound like these mature, self motivated (at this level) players are on the par with Mrs. Moody's Day Care sugar intoxicated wild eyed whiners. The fans I can see.., but on one hand you're looking up at the player pedestal and on the other pointing out the flaws from behind..

Nope.. We dont see peeper to peeper.. But hey,... I'm game...

BK59

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 03:35 PM
Not to change the subject of the thread (and, like others, I find it baffling that many posters think they could manage the White Sox better than Ozzie), but Terry Bevington is universally regarded as the worst manager in franchise history -- no argument from me -- he was terrible. And yet the Sox were actually above .500 during his tenure (222-214). That's a better winning pct. than, for example, Tony La Russa and Chuck Tanner had with the Sox -- and only .002 below that of Eddie Stanky. Not too many managers who have career records above .500 never get a second managerial job. I suppose that shows just how bad he was -- he never got another shot even though his team's record was above .500.

The 1963 Mets job wasnt available....

BK59

FielderJones
07-18-2011, 03:38 PM
All-time White Sox winning percentage leader -- 3rd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chicago_White_Sox_managers#Managers) White Sox manager :happyguy:

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 03:47 PM
All-time White Sox winning percentage leader -- 3rd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chicago_White_Sox_managers#Managers) White Sox manager :happyguy:

Hot Damn... almost scraping a .6.... We wouldnt know how to handle that around here..MERCY!!!

BK59

captain54
07-18-2011, 03:55 PM
And yet the Sox were actually above .500 during his tenure (222-214). That's a better winning pct. than, for example, both Tony La Russa and Chuck Tanner had with the Sox -- and only .002 below that of Eddie Stanky. Not too many managers who have career records above .500 never get a second managerial job. I suppose that shows just how bad he was -- he never got another shot even though his team's record was above .500.

What sealed Bevington's fate was not making the playoffs after increasing the payroll and adding Albert Belle. Sound familiar?

Terry Bevington had trouble communicating with his players, had strained relations with some of his coaches, alienated the media and turned off the fans, and just basically came across as a dumb, unpleasant guy.

BigKlu59
07-18-2011, 04:21 PM
What sealed Bevington's fate was not making the playoffs after increasing the payroll and adding Albert Belle. Sound familiar?

Terry Bevington had trouble communicating with his players, had strained relations with some of his coaches, alienated the media and turned off the fans, and just basically came across as a dumb, unpleasant guy.

You become a dumb unpleasant guy when you increase payroll, dont make the play offs and the **** hits the fan... You reverse the outcome and you're a happy idiot savant...

Did I just say that about Terry Bevington?.... say it aint so, Joe... say it aint so..

BK59

central44
07-18-2011, 04:26 PM
I know i'd be a terrible, terrible MLB manager. But, if Pierre is on first base in a close game, I wouldn't have Alexei sacrifice him over, bringing Konerko up with nobody on first.

...who will PROBABLY get intentionally walked to get to Dunn. I want the bat in my best player's hand.

Ozzie did that.

In all seriousness, I voted yes but I know that in reality no, I couldn't do a better job. :smile:

A. Cavatica
07-18-2011, 08:57 PM
On my first day, I would make two very smart decisions that Ozzie's ego would never let him make.

1. Fire Greg Walker.

2. Resign.

Frater Perdurabo
07-18-2011, 09:01 PM
On my first day, I would make two very smart decisions that Ozzie's ego would never let him make.

1. Fire Greg Walker.

2. Resign.


You just won the thread.

thomas35forever
07-18-2011, 09:14 PM
I've seen a lot of little league games. The right fielder is usually squatted down, poking at an anthill with a stick.
Two things I often did were:
1) Use my cap to shoo away the many bugs flying over my head

2) Observe the action through one of the tiny holes in my mitt just to liven things up a bit

In spite of these among other things, I was still named MVP of my team when I was 9!

Madvora
07-18-2011, 09:24 PM
Will Ohman becomes the DH. There, I've already improved the team.

Nellie_Fox
07-19-2011, 12:17 AM
This is ridiculous. All major league guys started somewhere to ya know...Yeah, they did. Usually by spending 15-20 years playing the game at the pro level, at least making it to AAA if not substantial major league time. Then spending time coaching in the majors, maybe managing in the minors. Not sitting in the lazy boy watching games on TV for 55 years like I've done.

But I have experience that is the thing. Baseball is a "job" and it involves experience just like any other job.Oh, please. What experience? You remind me of all the people who thought they knew how to do my job as a police watch commander because they'd watched Adam-12.

Two things I often did were:
1) Use my cap to shoo away the many bugs flying over my head

2) Observe the action through one of the tiny holes in my mitt just to liven things up a bit

In spite of these among other things, I was still named MVP of my team when I was 9!That mental picture made me laugh, because we've probably all done that when we were a kid. It does focus your attention! I never played any organized ball; my parents couldn't afford the registration fee, but it was the fifties, and you never had to go very far to find a pick-up game in the neighborhood somewhere. I always had my glove on the handlebars of my bike just in case.

flo-B-flo
07-19-2011, 09:47 AM
"who will PROBABLY get intentionally walked to get to Dunn. I want the bat in my best player's hand."



Ozzie stubbornly puts Dunn high up in the order. Right now PK is getting **** to hit because of it..........

CLUBHOUSE KID
07-19-2011, 10:02 AM
Yeah, they did. Usually by spending 15-20 years playing the game at the pro level, at least making it to AAA if not substantial major league time. Then spending time coaching in the majors, maybe managing in the minors. Not sitting in the lazy boy watching games on TV for 55 years like I've done.

Oh, please. What experience? You remind me of all the people who thought they knew how to do my job as a police watch commander because they'd watched Adam-12.

I am so tired of this. It seems like every one of your posts you say some wise ass comment because you are a mod. You don't know me so don't put words/actions in my mouth. You are 55 and a cop okay. That is you not me. I know how baseball jobs work. Sorry I did not document my life for you.

Mod Edit: I highlighted the part of your post that crossed the line and got you a rip. -VC

Nellie_Fox
07-19-2011, 03:15 PM
I am so tired of this. It seems like every one of your posts you say some wise ass comment because you are a mod. You don't know me so don't put words/actions in my mouth. You are 55 and a cop okay. That is you not me. I know how baseball jobs work. Sorry I did not document my life for you.

Mod Edit: I highlighted the part of your post that crossed the line and got you a rip. -VCI'm older than 55, and I'm not a cop anymore. I used that example because there are some jobs that people think they know all about because they've watched it on TV.

I'm sorry you got all offended, but let's face it, if you're going to post that you have sufficient experience to be a major-league manager, it's reasonable for people to ask you to defend that statement by telling what experience it is you have that you think makes you qualified. I find it hard to imagine that anyone of your age has acquired that kind of experience (I'm of the very strong impression that you're quite young; I could be wrong.)