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Frater Perdurabo
07-17-2011, 02:48 PM
A sweep was not to be.

Glad to win the series, but "winning series" isn't good enough. We need to win games, especially winnable games against division opponents ahead of us in the standings.

CHISOXFAN13
07-17-2011, 02:50 PM
No runs after the second and some pathetic managing is recipe for disaster.

Another blown opportunity to make a dent in this race.

SoxSpeed22
07-17-2011, 02:50 PM
Thanks for losing us another one, Oz

Patrick134
07-17-2011, 02:51 PM
Nice road series win, move on and win the next one.

Tragg
07-17-2011, 02:51 PM
More clown managing from Guillen. What an ANCHOR.

sunofgold
07-17-2011, 02:51 PM
Offense just couldn't get it done. Scored 3 in second and then no more after that. Tigers got the clutch hits with VMartinez and CGuillen, we didn't get any clutch hits.

CHISOXFAN13
07-17-2011, 02:52 PM
Nice road series win, move on and win the next one.

The Sox held a 3-0 lead in this one.

Nice series win, my ass.

JB98
07-17-2011, 02:52 PM
A sweep was not to be.

Glad to win the series, but "winning series" isn't good enough. We need to win games, especially winnable games against division opponents ahead of us in the standings.

Agreed. I hate that "winning series" bull****.

The difference between two behind Detroit and four behind Detroit is huge.

The Sox pissed away a huge opportunity today, blowing a 3-0 lead. I don't want to hear about how they "just need to keep winning series." No, they need to start winning tight games against divisional opponents -- like today's game for example.

Disappointed, but not surprised. The Sox stink, and we shouldn't expect any better from them. They are 46-49 for good reason.

Nelfox02
07-17-2011, 02:52 PM
welcome back 2011 Sox!!!! hope you enjoyed the last 2 days, and first 2 innings of this game off!


I was so pumped when the started out the game knocking Penny around.....thought this might be the game that really turned our season in the right direction for real......but no


Humber got Miggy on that 3-2 pitch........and there was some hope......


I still dont get putting Beckham in the bunt situation in the ninth

this game sucked.......Cleveland has a decent chance to lose to Balt today, you could have went to KC on a roll, 2 back of DET, 3 off the Tribe (maybe) and feeling it

instead you go there and have to worry about facing Cy Chen and Davies......


sucks

Patrick134
07-17-2011, 02:54 PM
The Sox held a 3-0 lead in this one.

Nice series win, my ass.


Great point. Facing Verlander and Scherzer, we all should have had this one booked for a sweep. The Tigers are thrilled to go 1-2 against the Sox at home.

PalehosePlanet
07-17-2011, 02:55 PM
How ****ing typical. Ladies and Gentlemen: Brad ****ing Penny with a Quality start and a Win!!!!!

Inept offense goes to sleep after two innings. Inept manager asleep at the wheel w/the game on the line in the 6th. Inept team with zero killer instinct.

So much for a win streak.

JB98
07-17-2011, 02:56 PM
Great point. Facing Verlander and Scherzer, we all should have had this one booked for a sweep. The Tigers are thrilled to go 1-2 against the Sox at home.

That's really all they needed. They remain comfortably ahead of the Sox.

Procol Harum
07-17-2011, 02:57 PM
welcome back 2011 Sox!!!! hope you enjoyed the last 2 days, and first 2 innings of this game off!


My sentiments exactly. Big loss, just when it looked like we might be gaining some momentum. This KC series is huge--they gotta beat these guys. The Detroit series win is only gonna be meaningful if we win the KC and Minny series--that means 5 of the next 7.

Frater Perdurabo
07-17-2011, 02:57 PM
I still dont get putting Beckham in the bunt situation in the ninth

Beckham has been on fire lately, hitting .350 in July and .500 in the last week. He was 2 for 3 today coming in to that plate appearance. Taking the bat out of his hands was asinine.

Ozzie is a robot-clown. Or a clown-robot. Same difference.

sox1970
07-17-2011, 02:57 PM
The Sox held a 3-0 lead in this one.

Nice series win, my ass.

Agreed. Winning series only matters in October.

Sox need a legitimate winning streak in the worst way. Or at least a 20 game stretch where they go 15-5.

Nelfox02
07-17-2011, 02:58 PM
Great point. Facing Verlander and Scherzer, we all should have had this one booked for a sweep. The Tigers are thrilled to go 1-2 against the Sox at home.


But, you beat Verlander, and the Scherzer.......facing Penny in a sweep game that you jump on him early? settling for a series win in this situation sucks

that is the penalty this team has for poor play in the first half, if they really want to get into this they need to go on a roll, not an epic roll, but how about a 5-6 game streak?

but to sweep the Tigers, a team ahead of you in the standings and still a team I fear much more than the tribe? yeah.......this was dissapointing, no matter how u slice it

2 of 3 was not good enough all things considered here

SI1020
07-17-2011, 02:58 PM
Beckham has been on fire lately, hitting .350 in July and .500 in the last week. He was 2 for 3 today coming in to that plate appearance. Taking the bat out of his hands was asinine.

Ozzie is a robot-clown. Or a clown-robot. Same difference. Ozzie has his "book" and is unable to deviate from it no matter what.

Patrick134
07-17-2011, 02:59 PM
That's really all they needed. They remain comfortably ahead of the Sox.

They're not comfortably anywhere. Home is where you try to gain ground, and they lost ground. The Sox have the best road record in the division. It's their division worst home record that has done the Sox in so far.

Frater Perdurabo
07-17-2011, 02:59 PM
Ozzie has his "book" and is unable to deviate from it no matter what.

He needs a software upgrade in the worst way.

Crestani
07-17-2011, 03:00 PM
Humber never should have faced Martinez in the 6th. Sale would have turned him around where he is not as dangerous.:scratch:

ElevenUp
07-17-2011, 03:01 PM
I don't get why Ozzie doesn't give Lillibridge a chance for a straight steal. Valverde has such a weird, slow delivery.

Nelfox02
07-17-2011, 03:01 PM
My sentiments exactly. Big loss, just when it looked like we might be gaining some momentum. This KC series is huge--they gotta beat these guys. The Detroit series win is only gonna be meaningful if we win the KC and Minny series--that means 5 of the next 7.


dont we conclude in Cle?


I still say series win's at this point just keep us on life support......the need a streak. It doesn have to be some miracle streak like 10 wins....just get 5-6 in a row......but something like that just seems impossible for this group

JB98
07-17-2011, 03:02 PM
They're not comfortably anywhere. Home is where you try to gain ground, and they lost ground. The Sox have the best road record in the division. It's their division worst home record that has done the Sox in so far.

Four games is a nice little cushion. Surely more comfortable than two games. The Sox should have pulled within two today, but unfortunately, they stink and couldn't get it done as usual.

PalehosePlanet
07-17-2011, 03:03 PM
Beckham has been on fire lately, hitting .350 in July and .500 in the last week. He was 2 for 3 today coming in to that plate appearance. Taking the bat out of his hands was asinine.

Ozzie is a robot-clown. Or a clown-robot. Same difference.

We stole two bags on Valverde yesterday. He's an easy man to run on, yet Ozzie decides to bunt instead of a straight steal. The next batter Teahen is a left handed batter, therefore, it's harder to steal 3rd with the catcher having a clear throwing path.

Also, why the **** would you not turn around Victor Martinez to bat right handed off Sale in the 6th with the game on the line?

He's a robot-clown that was apparently in sleep mode in the 6th.

Tragg
07-17-2011, 03:06 PM
Beckham has been on fire lately, hitting .350 in July and .500 in the last week. He was 2 for 3 today coming in to that plate appearance. Taking the bat out of his hands was asinine.



Indeed.
Guillen should have learned this in the 9th inning of game 4. Was anyone NOT thrilled when the Astros gave away 33% of its remaining outs?

And one of the hot hitters on the team?

What pitiful strategy. But his ego will never, ever, ever let it go.

DickAllen72
07-17-2011, 03:07 PM
Alexei's misplay cost the game.

captain54
07-17-2011, 03:08 PM
1) why pitch to Martinez in the 6th with first base open?

and/or

2) why not let Sale face Martinez?

3) why do you not run Lillibridge in the 9th?

Nelfox02
07-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Alexei's misplay cost the game.


played a big role no doubt (always seems like if he makes an error late it costs us big) but there was a lot of guilt to go around this day

captain54
07-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Alexei's misplay cost the game.

didn't see that...glad I didn't...don't think I wanna know what happened..

does it seem like the costly Alexei misplays are sort of piling up?

BainesHOF
07-17-2011, 03:11 PM
Why are we bunting to tie the game on the road? Why not go with the percentages and have Lillibridge steal? What can't a .250-hitting middle infielder bunt?

So many questions. So many reasons we're not a good team.

DickAllen72
07-17-2011, 03:13 PM
Why are we bunting to tie the game on the road? Why not go with the percentages and have Lillibridge steal? What can't a .250-hitting middle infielder bunt?

So many questions. So many reasons we're not a good team.
Ozzieball!

Nelfox02
07-17-2011, 03:13 PM
didn't see that...glad I didn't...don't think I wanna know what happened..

does it seem like the costly Alexei misplays are sort of piling up?


he makes a lot of errors.....and it always seems like they are late in games or in xtras.....and it always seems like the lead to GW runs being scored....

mmmmmbeeer
07-17-2011, 03:18 PM
I am sooooo ridiculously fed up with Ozzie. It's getting to the point where every time he interjects himself into the game via a managerial decision, it's wrong. I think I could count on one hand the number of games this season where, after it was over, I could say that Oz managed a good game or that his decisions contributed directly to a win.

doublem23
07-17-2011, 03:20 PM
Facing Verlander and Scherzer off the All-Star Break, yeah, I'd have been happy with a 2/3 series on Friday before the games started.

Let's go get some W's in Kansas City

PalehosePlanet
07-17-2011, 03:27 PM
Alexei's misplay cost the game.

No it didn't. There was a ton of overspin on that ball that was taking the ball away to Alexei's right. Even if he reads the overspin and jumps in front of the ball to his right and takes it off the chest it's still an infield single. After the walk to Magglio, it didn't matter that the batter reached second on the play.

Hawk, as well as Stone lately, have been full of **** with their "give a team 4 outs" garbage. Sometimes a pitcher has to pitch over perceived misplays/errors, etc...

Dan H
07-17-2011, 03:31 PM
Great point. Facing Verlander and Scherzer, we all should have had this one booked for a sweep. The Tigers are thrilled to go 1-2 against the Sox at home.

I'm with ChiSoxFan 13 on this one. The White Sox had already won the first two and had a 3-0 lead. A sweep would have been huge for them. Even if the Sox win the next two series two out of three, they will still be under .500 at the 101-game mark. Losing games like this hurts especially when the team is attempting to make up ground after the horrible start.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-17-2011, 03:35 PM
Ozzie continues to get in his team's way when the game is at its most critical juncture.

thomas35forever
07-17-2011, 03:40 PM
Disappointed, but not surprised. Another example of playing down to the competition. How else can you explain the way we played the first two games of this series and then eventually fell flat again today?

PalehosePlanet
07-17-2011, 03:49 PM
Ozzie continues to get in his team's way when the game is at its most critical juncture.

The time old cliche is that a good manager can win his team an extra 3-4 games a year with his managing.

I don't know if there is a cliche about how many games a ****ty manager can cost you, but Ozzie through 95 games is on a 15 game pace or so for the season.

wassagstdu
07-17-2011, 04:05 PM
No it didn't. There was a ton of overspin on that ball that was taking the ball away to Alexei's right. Even if he reads the overspin and jumps in front of the ball to his right and takes it off the chest it's still an infield single. After the walk to Magglio, it didn't matter that the batter reached second on the play.

Hawk, as well as Stone lately, have been full of **** with their "give a team 4 outs" garbage. Sometimes a pitcher has to pitch over perceived misplays/errors, etc...

Overspin would have caused the ball to hop low, but the ball went over his glove. It was hit right at him and he tried to make a lazy backhand and the play cost the Sox the game. Nothing Ozzie did was as significant -- because all of Ozzie's mistakes are the result of somebody failing to execute. Constantly harping on Ozzie for the faults of a lousy team is getting tiresome. (Not referring to any one poster.)

A hitter is expected to fail two thirds of the time. A shortstop should make 99% of plays hit right at him.

kufram
07-17-2011, 04:08 PM
People who were predicting we would get swept by Detroit complaining now about only winning 2 of 3 is a bit disingenuous.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2011, 04:13 PM
Now these are the White Sox we've come to know and love.

Nine hits and a walk in 6 1/3rd innings off of Penny and they only get three runs.

Now it's on to Kansas City; a garbage team; with a garbage pitching staff that will make the Sox look impotent again.

Lip

captain54
07-17-2011, 04:14 PM
People who were predicting we would get swept by Detroit complaining now about only winning 2 of 3 is a bit disingenuous.

the complaining is due to the fact that we gave away another winnable ballgame. a disturbing trend that has plagued the Sox the first half, and has now carried over into the second half.

captain54
07-17-2011, 04:16 PM
Now these are the White Sox we've come to know and love.

Lip

Yup.. kind of comforting. Like getting re-acquainted with an old friend.

Soxfest
07-17-2011, 04:17 PM
Another bad loss and Sox wonder why they are under .500 the excuses get old fast!

LITTLE NELL
07-17-2011, 04:25 PM
We let Penny off the hook, he had nothing and we scored a lousy 3 runs off him. This team has no killer instinct.

SI1020
07-17-2011, 04:28 PM
Nothing Ozzie did was as significant -- because all of Ozzie's mistakes are the result of somebody failing to execute. Constantly harping on Ozzie for the faults of a lousy team is getting tiresome. (Not referring to any one poster.)
You can refer directly to me if you like. The thing that is most tiresome is Ozzie's game day managing. I guess it must be the force of his dynamic personality, because some will not tolerate the slightest criticism of his questionable chess moves. The thing is, no matter what this team does we're stuck with everyone from JR on down and if you don't like it well you know what you can do.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2011, 04:29 PM
Wassag:

Submitted for your consideration.

Martinez by the way is hitting .270 from the right side, .330 from the left side this year. A 60 POINT DIFFERENCE. Yet Ozzie let Humber pitch to him with two out and first base open.

Gonzo at the Tribune in his post mortum wrote that Sale was warming up yet Ozzie stayed with Humber.

Oh you Ozzie!

:rolleyes:

Lip

soxfanreggie
07-17-2011, 04:34 PM
If we start winning series vs Minnesota, I'll be happy with that. However, those talking about winning streaks and whatnot are correct. We need a nice 15-5 or 14-6 run here to get us back up there.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2011, 04:47 PM
I was thinking about this while washing down the back of the house and I wanted to take a break and post it.

I have no idea if this is true or not just surmising.

It seems to me that Ozzie is becoming more concerned about losing a game than winning it by his actions on an almost daily basis. The 9th inning today was a perfect example...if Lillibridge gets thrown out, ya Ozzie's going to be second guessed but considering the way the Sox have hit with runners in scoring position for almost 100 games what did he have to lose?

If Lillibridge steals second THEN bunt him to3rd if you want. You've got a lot more chances to score from 3rd (I think it's 12 if memory serves) than from 2nd.

Ozzie claims to the media that he doesn't care what the fans / media say but his actions indicate otherwise. I don't know if he reads web sites like WSI, perhaps his kids immediately let him know when the heat's on at various sites, but again he sure seems to manage like he does care and doesn't want to be second guessed.

Just my opinion.

Lip

guillensdisciple
07-17-2011, 04:48 PM
4-6 on this 19 game swing.

If we are at .500 when this thing ends then we can rest assured that this team will only be .500 when the season is over.

Adam Dunn well- .160.

hi im skot
07-17-2011, 05:04 PM
Overspin would have caused the ball to hop low, but the ball went over his glove. It was hit right at him and he tried to make a lazy backhand and the play cost the Sox the game. Nothing Ozzie did was as significant -- because all of Ozzie's mistakes are the result of somebody failing to execute. Constantly harping on Ozzie for the faults of a lousy team is getting tiresome. (Not referring to any one poster.)

A hitter is expected to fail two thirds of the time. A shortstop should make 99% of plays hit right at him.

Alexei has a lot of apologists 'round these parts.

JB98
07-17-2011, 05:26 PM
Wassag:

Submitted for your consideration.

Martinez by the way is hitting .270 from the right side, .330 from the left side this year. A 60 POINT DIFFERENCE. Yet Ozzie let Humber pitch to him with two out and first base open.

Gonzo at the Tribune in his post mortum wrote that Sale was warming up yet Ozzie stayed with Humber.

Oh you Ozzie!

:rolleyes:

Lip

There were two reasonable options in that situation: 1) Put Martinez on first base and take your chances with Peralta or 2) Bring in Sale and make Martinez hit from his weaker side. The Sox chose option three: Hang a breaking ball to Martinez and let him tie the game.

The last time the Sox played the Tigers, I took a beating on WSI because I stated I'd rather face Cabrera than Martinez in a clutch situation. Over the years, the Sox have contained Cabrera pretty good. Martinez, OTOH, eats the Sox alive.

Somebody other than Martinez has gotta beat me. I'm sorry.

JB98
07-17-2011, 05:26 PM
Alexei has a lot of apologists 'round these parts.

Indeed. That play has to be made. Period.

Red Barchetta
07-17-2011, 05:29 PM
Nice road series win, move on and win the next one.


I agree, especially considering the way we have played the Tiggers this season. The Meatloaf song "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad" is in my head.

Keep winning series and throw in a nice double digit win streak and we can get back in this.

Nelfox02
07-17-2011, 05:47 PM
I agree, especially considering the way we have played the Tiggers this season. The Meatloaf song "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad" is in my head.

Keep winning series and throw in a nice double digit win streak and we can get back in this.


double digit? slow down, I would take a 4-5 gamer to start.......

JB98
07-17-2011, 05:49 PM
double digit? slow down, I would take a 4-5 gamer to start.......

Hell, three in a row would be nice. The Sox have swept only one series all year.

Nelfox02
07-17-2011, 05:50 PM
There were two reasonable options in that situation: 1) Put Martinez on first base and take your chances with Peralta or 2) Bring in Sale and make Martinez hit from his weaker side. The Sox chose option three: Hang a breaking ball to Martinez and let him tie the game.

The last time the Sox played the Tigers, I took a beating on WSI because I stated I'd rather face Cabrera than Martinez in a clutch situation. Over the years, the Sox have contained Cabrera pretty good. Martinez, OTOH, eats the Sox alive.

Somebody other than Martinez has gotta beat me. I'm sorry.


I was in the camp of going after Victor with 2 out, agree the guy has killed us in the past (not just us tho) but it seems that Peralta always kills us (I dont have the numbers to back that up) BUT-----you had to try Sale there, if you committed to go after Victor and he hit Sale? Sucks, but not our day, no complaints to Ozzie

The electing to bunt with Beckham in the ninth after great AB by AJ was just garbage.....that call has already been dissected enough tho.......

JB98
07-17-2011, 06:04 PM
I was in the camp of going after Victor with 2 out, agree the guy has killed us in the past (not just us tho) but it seems that Peralta always kills us (I dont have the numbers to back that up) BUT-----you had to try Sale there, if you committed to go after Victor and he hit Sale? Sucks, but not our day, no complaints to Ozzie

The electing to bunt with Beckham in the ninth after great AB by AJ was just garbage.....that call has already been dissected enough tho.......

If he gets a hit off Sale, I'm still a little upset. But I wouldn't be as upset because making Martinez swing from the right side instead of the left is a reasonable decision that can be defended.

I still would have put him on and taken my chances against Peralta. If Peralta beats me, well, that's baseball.

Lip Man 1
07-17-2011, 06:12 PM
For the Humber / Martinez decision:

“I just went out there to see how he (Humber) felt. He gave me the right answer, wrong result. He said he felt great, so we left him there. It’s not the result we wanted. If we play like this the rest of the season we’ll be fine.”

Not trying to be cynical but Ozzie isn't even consistent anymore on how he handles these situations.

Remember earlier in the year, the Oakland fiasco? He doesn't ask Buehrle, tossing a two hitter, how he feels and if he can pitch the 9th inning.

Then a day or so later after using Sale for two innings he takes Cooper's word (from Sale) that he's "fine" to pitch again against three right handers hitters in a row, gets lit up and the Sox blow a sure win in the 9th inning.

It's getting to the point where I don't care what Ozzie (or whoever replaces him) does anymore just show some consistency so that, if nothing else, the PLAYERS know what the hell they are supposed to do and what they can expect.

And I understand asking a pitcher how he feels but any major league pitcher worth a damn is probably not going to tell the manager, "I'm done," or "I don't think I can get this guy..." They are in the big leagues in part because of their drive and competitiveness. Ozzie has to stop listening to these guys all the time and trust his judgment and Cooper's too.

Lip

BainesHOF
07-17-2011, 06:17 PM
Guillen's become a laughingstock to anyone who's been paying attention. It's no longer his fault that he's a joke of a manager. It's the fault of those who keep him in his position.

soxfanatlanta
07-17-2011, 06:27 PM
The name Ozzie and the word rational should not be used together.

RKMeibalane
07-17-2011, 06:37 PM
It's getting to the point where I don't care what Ozzie (or whoever replaces him) does anymore just show some consistency so that, if nothing else, the PLAYERS know what the hell they are supposed to do and what they can expect.

This has a familiar ring to it...

:jerry

"Remember me?"

BringHomeDaBacon
07-17-2011, 06:38 PM
If he gets a hit off Sale, I'm still a little upset. But I wouldn't be as upset because making Martinez swing from the right side instead of the left is a reasonable decision that can be defended.

I still would have put him on and taken my chances against Peralta. If Peralta beats me, well, that's baseball.

Earlier this year, he elected to pitch to Cabrera because Martinez was on deck. Without getting into the merits of that decision, it shows a clear respect/fear of Martinez. That being the case, it makes no sense to pitch to Martinez in this situation (or at minimum turn him around).

When viewed together, those decisions demonstrate illogical and inconsistent thinking.

JB98
07-17-2011, 06:46 PM
Earlier this year, he elected to pitch to Cabrera because Martinez was on deck. Without getting into the merits of that decision, it shows a clear respect/fear of Martinez. That being the case, it makes no sense to pitch to Martinez in this situation (or at minimum turn him around).

When viewed together, those decisions demonstrate illogical and inconsistent thinking.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I took a beating on WSI that night because I *supported* the decision to go at Cabrera and steer clear of Martinez.

I want no part of Martinez. Cabrera is a terrific hitter, but the Sox have done a nice job of containing him the last few years.

Martinez has been hammering Sox pitching since his days in Cleveland. I'm tired of looking at that. If I'm managing (and thank goodness I'm not), someone else is going to have to beat me.

A. Cavatica
07-17-2011, 07:08 PM
When viewed together, those decisions demonstrate illogical and inconsistent thinking.

Or you could listen to the man. Or read his tweets.

hawkjt
07-17-2011, 08:55 PM
I was hoping that due to special circumstances(our big 4 relievers not having worked for 7 days) and the fact that this was such a big game well within the Sox grasp,that Ozzie would manage it like a playoff game.
That means walking Martinez and bringing in Jesse Crain this one time,to get the biggest out of the game. We had 3 other well rested guys behind Jesse in Thornton,Sale and Sergio. Just once, pull a starter who is fading a bit,instead of making a show of faith,at the expense of wins. Humber had a bad outing his last game,so maybe you get him out before he blows this game?

The offense just could not get that one more big hit to put this game away earlier...unfortunately.

Gonna be hot in KC...our pitchers better be ready to lock it down or it could be a nightmare,draining series there,before we go to Cleveland...

kittle42
07-17-2011, 08:59 PM
Ozzie Guillen is not very good at the management of the baseball teams.

JermaineDye05
07-17-2011, 09:16 PM
I really hope Kenny does the right thing at the trade deadline, which, IMO is trading Juan Pierre, Edwin Jackson, and possibly Carlos Quentin. Really need to try and fix this thing for the next couple of years.

hi im skot
07-17-2011, 09:23 PM
I really hope Kenny does the right thing at the trade deadline, which, IMO is trading Juan Pierre, Edwin Jackson, and possibly Carlos Quentin. Really need to try and fix this thing for the next couple of years.

We know you hate Pierre, but what, exactly, do you expect to get for him? He has little value and an expiring contract.

If he's off the roster, it'll either be because he's released or a throw-in in a package deal. At this point, I expect him to finish the season with the Sox.

Rocky Soprano
07-17-2011, 09:28 PM
Ozzie Guillen is not very good at the management of the baseball teams.

:thumbsup:

How much longer do we have to watch this train wreck that is Ozzie Guillen?
Where would this team be with a competent manager?

doublem23
07-17-2011, 09:45 PM
I really hope Kenny does the right thing at the trade deadline, which, IMO is trading Juan Pierre, Edwin Jackson, and possibly Carlos Quentin. Really need to try and fix this thing for the next couple of years.

Yeah, wow, that really addresses none of our problems.

JermaineDye05
07-17-2011, 09:59 PM
We know you hate Pierre, but what, exactly, do you expect to get for him? He has little value and an expiring contract.

If he's off the roster, it'll either be because he's released or a throw-in in a package deal. At this point, I expect him to finish the season with the Sox.

Considering he's gone after this year, you might as well get what you can for him.

JermaineDye05
07-17-2011, 10:03 PM
Yeah, wow, that really addresses none of our problems.

Our biggest problems are Dunn and Rios. We aren't getting rid of them unless some team decides to be extremely generous and take their contracts.

Looking at the state of the team right now, they're looking like they're going to have a really tough time the next couple of seasons, especially if Dunn and Rios continue to play poorly.

I think now wouldn't be a bad time to start rebuilding.

However, I don't know if Jerry will be up for that, especially considering the money he has invested in this team.

I also wonder if Jerry might want to wait until he has a new GM before starting to rebuild considering Kenny's poor decisions the last couple of seasons. Maybe Rick Hahn is ready for a promotion.

TheOldRoman
07-17-2011, 10:58 PM
What a horrible game. After defeating one great pitcher and a pretty good pitcher the last two days, the offense did one of the more infuriating things a Walker offense does (especially against bad pitchers)- score early and say "**** it, we won this game. Let's hurry up and get home." Penny is a bad pitcher who the Sox should have beaten, especially after hanging three on him early. In case anybody thought Brad Penny was good, here is his 2011 stat line:
vs. hitters not taking advice from Greg Walker: 4-6, 4.77 ERA
vs. Sox: 3-0, 2.89 ERA

russ99
07-18-2011, 07:48 AM
Every loss you guys need to have something to bitch about.

We had 3 opportunities late to get in the tying run and failed. Sometimes you don't win those games.

I didn't see an iota of mismanagement here, only Ozzie trying to get his starter 7 innings and trying to get a runner into scoring position when down one run late. When Gardenhire does it, he's a genius, when Ozzie does it he's a fool...

IMO, the team looks improved after the break, usually a soft tosser like Penny holds us to 3 hits.

A sweep would have been nice, but I'll take 2 wins in Detroit and some momentum into the series in KC then the important one at Cleveland.

hawkjt
07-18-2011, 09:51 AM
I really hope Kenny does the right thing at the trade deadline, which, IMO is trading Juan Pierre, Edwin Jackson, and possibly Carlos Quentin. Really need to try and fix this thing for the next couple of years.


Just because you no longer watch the games,does not mean that Kenny should wave the white flag this year.
If you think that players obtained from trading Pierre,Jackson and Quentin would fix the Sox for the next couple of years,I disagree. As long as the Sox have highly paid non-performers like Dunn and Rios,not much will change. They simply have to perform. You cannot have two guys in the lineup averaging .180 between them. Pierre,PK and AJ would have to hit .340 to make up for that .180.

But, Rios had two hits yesterday,so hope springs eternal.
This division has a chance to get really ugly the next two weeks.
Detroit plays Minny(who kicks their arse),the Tribe,KC and the Sox in that stretch. So do the Tribe. If the Sox and the Twins play them tough at all,this division will squeeze down by the end of July...4 teams,throw a hat over them.

kittle42
07-18-2011, 09:59 AM
Every loss you guys need to have something to bitch about.

And it's usually the same thing - Ozzie Guillen.

We had 3 opportunities late to get in the tying run and failed. Sometimes you don't win those games.

Or, if you take advice from Greg Walker and have a manager that gives up outs stubbornly, particularly when you could steal second with a fast runner and a pitcher easy to steal on, you often don't win those games.

I didn't see an iota of mismanagement here, only Ozzie trying to get his starter 7 innings and trying to get a runner into scoring position when down one run late.

Correct. I also did not see one iota of mismanagement. I saw at least the two you point out.

A sweep would have been nice, but I'll take 2 wins in Detroit and some momentum into the series in KC then the important one at Cleveland.

Yeah, we'll see about all that.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 10:02 AM
Russ:

You don't see an iota (nice word!) of mis-management?

Ozzie let a pitcher in 90 degree heat who had already thrown a lot of pitches (as evidenced by a high number of strikeouts) pitch to a hitter WHO HITS 60 POINTS (NOT 10 POINTS ) BETTER FROM THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PLATE THAN THE RIGHT SIDE.

Then afterwards Ozzie "defends" his decision by saying "he gave me the right answer."

:?:

As you know I have been solidly in Ozzie's corner...until this year.

He and his cadre of clown assistant coaches needs to be shown the door.

Not saying the players aren't also responsible, they are, but players have changed in droves since the start of say, the 2007 season...the results remain as does Ozzie and his coaching staff.

Lip

Chez
07-18-2011, 10:20 AM
Russ:

You don't see an iota (nice word!) of mis-management?

Ozzie let a pitcher in 90 degree heat who had already thrown a lot of pitches (as evidenced by a high number of strikeouts) pitch to a hitter WHO HITS 60 POINTS (NOT 10 POINTS ) BETTER FROM THE LEFT SIDE OF THE PLATE THAN THE RIGHT SIDE.

Then afterwards Ozzie "defends" his decision by saying "he gave me the right answer."

:?:

As you know I have been solidly in Ozzie's corner...until this year.

He and his cadre of clown assistant coaches needs to be shown the door.

Not saying the players aren't also responsible, they are, but players have changed in droves since the start of say, the 2007 season...the results remain as does Ozzie and his coaching staff.

Lip

The Sox did win the division in 2008, Lip. You of all people know that in Chicago, winning a divisional championship is no small accomplishment. So give the players, Ozzie and his "cadre of clown assistant coaches" a little credit for that. And for the record, I also disagreed with Ozzie's decisions to let Humber pitch to Victor and not letting Lillibridge attempt to steal second in the 9th. Let's move on and pound the Royals.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 10:30 AM
Chez:

They won it by the hair of their chinny, chin, chin after blowing a decent lead the final week, I think it's also fair to mention that too. The Sox are running out of time and are in no position to "give" away anything anymore because of "interesting" decisions made by the manager.

Lip

Domeshot17
07-18-2011, 11:03 AM
every loss you guys need to have something to bitch about.

We had 3 opportunities late to get in the tying run and failed. Sometimes you don't win those games.

I didn't see an iota of mismanagement here, only ozzie trying to get his starter 7 innings and trying to get a runner into scoring position when down one run late. When gardenhire does it, he's a genius, when ozzie does it he's a fool...

Imo, the team looks improved after the break, usually a soft tosser like penny holds us to 3 hits.

A sweep would have been nice, but i'll take 2 wins in detroit and some momentum into the series in kc then the important one at cleveland.

whoomp there he is!!!! Losing this game kills all momentum headed into KC.

pudge
07-18-2011, 11:15 AM
Every loss you guys need to have something to bitch about.

We had 3 opportunities late to get in the tying run and failed. Sometimes you don't win those games.

I didn't see an iota of mismanagement here, only Ozzie trying to get his starter 7 innings and trying to get a runner into scoring position when down one run late. When Gardenhire does it, he's a genius, when Ozzie does it he's a fool...

IMO, the team looks improved after the break, usually a soft tosser like Penny holds us to 3 hits.

A sweep would have been nice, but I'll take 2 wins in Detroit and some momentum into the series in KC then the important one at Cleveland.

Playoff teams get that sweep. Teams that go home in September don't. The first two games after the break actually made me perk up and pay attention to this team for half a second, and then I was reminded why I stopped...

captain54
07-18-2011, 12:18 PM
We had 3 opportunities late to get in the tying run and failed. Sometimes you don't win those games.

.

True. When you're an under .500 slightly less than mediocre ballclub, you don't win those games, correct.

It's been so infrequent that the Sox offense strikes early and then adds on in the 7th, 8th and 9th, I've actually forgotten what it feels like.

Chez
07-18-2011, 12:20 PM
It's been so infrequent that the Sox offense strikes early and then adds on in the 7th, 8th and 9th, I've actually forgotten what it feels like.

Isn't that exactly what happened both on Friday and on Saturday?

captain54
07-18-2011, 12:25 PM
The Sox did win the division in 2008, Lip. You of all people know that in Chicago, winning a divisional championship is no small accomplishment. .

Which in the case of the White Sox is an embarassment, considering the division we are in.

captain54
07-18-2011, 01:16 PM
Isn't that exactly what happened both on Friday and on Saturday?

they scored in the 7th and 9th yes, but more typical is the 7/8 game where they scored 5 in the 1st and then Walkerball the rest of the way