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View Full Version : * Official * Edwin Jackson shuts out Tigers POSTGAME THREAD


doublem23
07-16-2011, 06:57 PM
I see the roller coaster is picking up right where it left off.

Bucky F. Dent
07-16-2011, 06:58 PM
I have a PTC nominee!:D:

PushinWeight
07-16-2011, 06:58 PM
Great win. Do it again tomorrow, then I will get excited.

Brian26
07-16-2011, 06:58 PM
I have a PTC nominee!:D:

Juan or Edwin?

kittle42
07-16-2011, 06:59 PM
Same team. They'll make us believers for two days and then tank. I mean, I *really* hope that is not the case - wouldn't it be awesome if the team today was the one we'll see the rest of the season?

BNLSox
07-16-2011, 06:59 PM
:bandance: Gordon and Juan looked great today! Terrible call on Beckham "leaving early." Luckily it didn't hurt us.

Bucky F. Dent
07-16-2011, 06:59 PM
Juan or Edwin?


Edwin!

guillensdisciple
07-16-2011, 07:00 PM
4=5 in crucial 19 games. My goal is to end it around 3 to 4 games over which would require 8-2 or 9-1. Lets see if the White Sox have that in them.

Regardless, keep on playing ball palehose.

Brian26
07-16-2011, 07:01 PM
Same team. They'll make us believers for two days and then tank. I mean, I *really* hope that is not the case - wouldn't it be awesome if the team today was the one we'll see the rest of the season?

That's why this team is such a tease. They have the pitching and overall talent to be dangerous if they could somehow slide into the playoffs. Just a big enough tease to keep us coming back.

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 07:01 PM
EJ was getting those first pitch strikes and the Sox simply tried to make contact (other than the usual suspects) instead of swinging for the fences.
Let's bring out the brooms Sunday.

Hopefully the Orioles stop playing "Bucky Ball" tonight and the Sox can get the lead to 4.

guillensdisciple
07-16-2011, 07:01 PM
Same team. They'll make us believers for two days and then tank. I mean, I *really* hope that is not the case - wouldn't it be awesome if the team today was the one we'll see the rest of the season?

Totally possible, and also totally possible that this team actually explodes makes it to first and caves with an annual bullpen eruption. That is a difficult question to ask considering we still have to play the Twins.

If the White Sox have changed, they have to beat the Twins.

GlassSox
07-16-2011, 07:02 PM
Excellent outing by Edwin for the complete game shut out. JP looking much better. Bacon showing some signs of life. All in all a very good game to watch.

I am dreaming of a sweep.

Brian26
07-16-2011, 07:03 PM
Rod Allen is a total clown. Loved how he defended Carlos Guillen in the 9th when he couldn't get the ball out of his glove to easily throw AJ out at the plate. "Good decision by Carlos Guillen there getting the out at first." :scratch:

Red Barchetta
07-16-2011, 07:05 PM
I got way too excited when this team crawled back to .500 against the Cubs only to see them lose 5 of 7 from the Royals and Twins, both team lower than the SOX in the standings (at home)! :?:

Happy for the win. A great way to start the second half of the season and I hope they keep it going. However, I'm staying cautiously optimistic!

Chez
07-16-2011, 07:07 PM
Who are these guys?! Two great wins. Sweep 'em tomorrow.

voodoochile
07-16-2011, 07:08 PM
An excellent all around game again. Wish I could have seen it but alas FOX had a local game to cover.

Some excellent performances by several people today, but both Juan and Edwin stick out as the key performers. As I noted in the PTC thread Juan's line should have been 4/4, 2B, SF, 1R, 2RBI, 2 SB. That's as near a perfect line as a leadoff hitter can have.

Jackson having a performance like that to start the second half is wonderful news. He made his pitches, but he didn't try to overpower every batter and let them put the ball in play. That's why he pitched all 9 and stayed under 100 pitches in the process. (Edit: whoops guess he hit 101...)

2 games under, 4.5 games back (pending - go you Orioles).

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 07:08 PM
Boy a sweep in front of three sellout/near sell out Tiger crowds would really hurt them and their confidence. C'mon Sox, do it.

October26
07-16-2011, 07:09 PM
So happy and excited to see the Sox hitting and pitching so well these last two games against the Tigers. I am especially happy for Juan Pierre going 4 for 5 today. Edwin was awesome as well. Great win - keep it going boys!

:winner

TDog
07-16-2011, 07:12 PM
Juan or Edwin?

The only time Pierre didn't come through offensively, he hit a fly ball with a runner on third that Gameday originally had down as a sacrifice fly. But you don't see as many complete-game shutouts as you used to.

Nine hits is a lot to allow in pitching a shutout (I think the record is 14, and the most I've ever seen a pitcher allow while pitching nine innings in a shutout win was 12, in the days when they didn't count pitches), but Jackson seemed in command. He struck out the first hitter and only one more in the next 26 outs, but he didn't have to work hard and didn't seem to tire. Jackson got big outs when he needed them, especially in the sixth when a Tigers hit could have tied the game.

A nice road win, and, really, a team effort led by the starting pitching once again. If the starting pitching is there, the White Sox will usually win.

shingo10
07-16-2011, 07:13 PM
Great game by Edwin.

Will look real good to any team who might be interested in him. Trade him while his value is at its peak?

Juan Pierre is making Ozzie look like a genius for sticking with him. He always seems to come back to his career averages. 270ish hitter. Nice.

Don't stop now boys.

sunofgold
07-16-2011, 07:35 PM
and scoring runs! Yes. Outscoring them 13-2 these two games.

The only bad is that Dunn and Rios sucked today. But we still win. It would be nice if those guys contributed (at least Dunn did yesterday). And Pierre is a hitting machine!

Otherwise, this team is all-in and standing pat. Yes, you put it on the board.

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 07:37 PM
Great game by Edwin.

Will look real good to any team who might be interested in him. Trade him while his value is at its peak?

Juan Pierre is making Ozzie look like a genius for sticking with him. He always seems to come back to his career averages. 270ish hitter. Nice.

Don't stop now boys.

With Peavy's and Dank's health still in question and the Sox still in it? Are you kidding?

ElevenUp
07-16-2011, 07:42 PM
Boy a sweep in front of three sellout/near sell out Tiger crowds would really hurt them and their confidence. C'mon Sox, do it.

I am optimistic with Humber on the mound tomorrow.

DickAllen72
07-16-2011, 07:45 PM
Props to Juan Pierre for a great game. Let's sweep 'em tomorrow!

Lip Man 1
07-16-2011, 07:51 PM
Nice win but as others have said this team is so frustrating. Can beat Boston, get some wins with the Yankees, got some wins last few days against the best Tiger pitchers...then look putrid against garbage teams like the Orioles, Royals and Twins and against atrocious pitchers, especially at home.

They are what they are, closing in on 100 games. We'll see what happens.

Lip

Falstaff
07-16-2011, 07:56 PM
With Peavy's and Dank's health still in question and the Sox still in it? Are you kidding?
Yes. I for one was pretty pleased when the Edwin Jackson trade was announced. He has arm and flashes of brilliance. Hmmm, sounds like Jose Contreras 04/early05. I predict, if the White Sox make it to playoffs, it will be largely on the shoulders of EJ putting it all together (like today) and going on a run like Contreras did 2nd half '05 1st half '06. Success can be contagious.:bandance:

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 08:04 PM
Yes. I for one was pretty pleased when the Edwin Jackson trade was announced. He has arm and flashes of brilliance. Hmmm, sounds like Jose Contreras 04/early05. I predict, if the White Sox make it to playoffs, it will be largely on the shoulders of EJ putting it all together (like today) and going on a run like Contreras did 2nd half '05 1st half '06. Success can be contagious.:bandance:

If the Sox make the playoffs I think it will be because the O performs much better than it did the first half. The pitching has been good enough. We shall see.

soltrain21
07-16-2011, 08:09 PM
Alright. Keep the train moving.

TomBradley72
07-16-2011, 08:33 PM
I'm still a little skeptical- but there is a noticable difference in their hitting approach this series- alot more contact, going the other way, getting the singles vs. swinging for the fences.

Dunn contributed yesterday, Quentin today- which is a good sign.

Pierre is coming on- I never doubted his ability to still hit- if he gets his running game going again- that's a huge lift.

Nice mid season break for the bullpen with only Ohman pitching since Sunday.

JB98
07-16-2011, 08:36 PM
The Sox need to sweep this series. They have beaten Detroit's two best pitchers. Now, put the hammer down tomorrow.

I don't want to see any Sunday lineups. Vizquel and Flowers don't need to play. I don't want to hear any bull**** about "just winning series."

The Sox are still in third place, and the Tigers are still ahead of them. The best way to change that is to kick Detroit's ass in head-to-head competition. Tomorrow's game is no less important than today's game was. I hope the Sox treat it that way.

LITTLE NELL
07-16-2011, 08:49 PM
The Sox need to sweep this series. They have beaten Detroit's two best pitchers. Now, put the hammer down tomorrow.

I don't want to see any Sunday lineups. Vizquel and Flowers don't need to play. I don't want to hear any bull**** about "just winning series."

The Sox are still in third place, and the Tigers are still ahead of them. The best way to change that is to kick Detroit's ass in head-to-head competition. Tomorrow's game is no less important than today's game was. I hope the Sox treat it that way.

Exactly, we have had quite a few series in the last few years where we won the first 2 games of a series and fell flat on our faces in the sweep game. Lets stop this crap and sweep the Tigers and move on to KC on a roll.

veeter
07-16-2011, 08:50 PM
Excellent outing by Edwin for the complete game shut out. JP looking much better. Bacon showing some signs of life. All in all a very good game to watch.

I am dreaming of a sweep.I'm not picking on you, because I've caught baseball "experts" saying it also, but a 'Shutout' is a complete game. All you have to say is he pitched a shutout. Again I'm not picking on you. It's just something that really bugs me.

shingo10
07-16-2011, 08:57 PM
With Peavy's and Dank's health still in question and the Sox still in it? Are you kidding?


Only partially kidding. He's been very inconsistent but is still valuable enough to probably bring back something decent. The way I see it is that KW stood still in 2009 and 2010 and both of those years amounted to no playoffs. If he wants to make logical moves this year to improve the club for the future I won't be complaining.

Like everyone has said this team is really hard to judge at this point. I agree that the offense and bullpen are what will make or break this team. The starting pitching should be consistent enough with or without the 6 man rotation.

A. Cavatica
07-16-2011, 09:00 PM
Great game by Edwin.

Will look real good to any team who might be interested in him. Trade him while his value is at its peak?

This. And trade Pierre if anyone will take him.

Brian26
07-16-2011, 09:00 PM
I don't want to see any Sunday lineups. Vizquel and Flowers don't need to play. I don't want to hear any bull**** about "just winning series."

Agreed, especially after a four-day break, a short trip to KC next week, and another off-day on Thursday.

JermaineDye05
07-16-2011, 09:06 PM
This team has really ruined wins for me.

I can't get excited anymore.

ChiSoxGal85
07-16-2011, 09:06 PM
I loved this game. How nice to see others (especially Pierre) came through with the hits so Paul didn't have to carry the whole damn team at the plate again. Oh, the places they'll go - if Dunn and Rios ever get going.

Great game by Jackson. He might have allowed a lot of hits but the Tigers couldn't string em together. That'll work.

StillMissOzzie
07-16-2011, 09:16 PM
I was thinking that now Tiger fans know how we've been feeling - a wasted pretty good starter performance and a boatload of runners left on base for lack of a 2-out RBI hit. I think the only thing they were missing was the poor situational hitting with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs.

But yesterday, out boys beat their best and today's victory wins the series. Please, for the love of God, Ozzie, NO craptacular Sunday lineup. Go for the sweep!

SMO
:gulp:

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 09:25 PM
This. And trade Pierre if anyone will take him.


And if Peavy and /or Danks dont stay healthy? Trade Pierre? Now?

Have you given up on the season?

Soxfest
07-16-2011, 09:34 PM
Great game to showcase EJ!

Tragg
07-16-2011, 09:34 PM
I believe that we've only swept one series all season; this one is critical.


Can't trade Jackson with a hurt Danks and Peavy.

SOXSINCE'70
07-16-2011, 09:44 PM
Josh Lewin and Rod Allen make me appreciate Hawk,DJ AND Farmio.:o:
(No teal intended.And yes,that is scary).

Great game.Please don't tease me,Sox. Allow me to think of that "S" word.
You know the one,right? Starts with an "s" and has "weep" at the end.:D:

TommyGavinFloyd
07-16-2011, 09:47 PM
This team has really ruined wins for me.

I can't get excited anymore.

Why are you watching anyway? I saw plenty of Juan Pierre out there today:cool:

JermaineDye05
07-16-2011, 09:53 PM
Why are you watching anyway? I saw plenty of Juan Pierre out there today:cool:

I didn't watch.

JermaineDye05
07-16-2011, 09:56 PM
And if Peavy and /or Danks dont stay healthy? Trade Pierre? Now?

Have you given up on the season?

You'd be stupid to not try and get something for Juan if someone makes an offer. The team will most likely not miss him while he's gone, and I'm doubtful the team is planning on re-signing him this offseason. Might as well get something for him.

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 09:59 PM
You'd be stupid to not try and get something for Juan if someone makes an offer. The team will most likely not miss him while he's gone, and I'm doubtful the team is planning on re-signing him this offseason. Might as well get something for him.


Yeah I guess 4 for 5 with two SBs is not good enough. Just when he wakes up and starts hitting, with the Sox only 4 behind a suspect Cleveland team, you want to let him go? Then who leads off?

tstrike2000
07-16-2011, 10:01 PM
The Sox need to sweep this series. They have beaten Detroit's two best pitchers. Now, put the hammer down tomorrow.

I don't want to see any Sunday lineups. Vizquel and Flowers don't need to play. I don't want to hear any bull**** about "just winning series."

The Sox are still in third place, and the Tigers are still ahead of them. The best way to change that is to kick Detroit's ass in head-to-head competition. Tomorrow's game is no less important than today's game was. I hope the Sox treat it that way.

Of course we can't forget a piece of **** Minnesota team that is somehow only 2 games behind the Sox. We really need a good road trip here and a sweep would be awesome. Of course looking at the box score from today, Dunn and Rios were a combined 0-8 with 5 strikeouts. I guess nothing more can be said that hasn't been said a million times, but those two guys still boggle my mind how bad they are.

BringHomeDaBacon
07-16-2011, 10:05 PM
The Sox need to sweep this series. They have beaten Detroit's two best pitchers. Now, put the hammer down tomorrow.

I don't want to see any Sunday lineups. Vizquel and Flowers don't need to play. I don't want to hear any bull**** about "just winning series."

The Sox are still in third place, and the Tigers are still ahead of them. The best way to change that is to kick Detroit's ass in head-to-head competition. Tomorrow's game is no less important than today's game was. I hope the Sox treat it that way.

what JB said

JermaineDye05
07-16-2011, 10:07 PM
Yeah I guess 4 for 5 with two SBs is not good enough. Just when he wakes up and starts hitting, with the Sox only 4 behind a suspect Cleveland team, you want to let him go? Then who leads off?

This may surprise you, but Juan is not going to be hitting at an .800 clip for the rest of the season. Also, Juan got the benefit of a bad call on one of those stolen bases.

There's nothing that Juan brings to the table that the Sox will necessarily miss if he were to be moved.

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 10:07 PM
The Sox need to sweep this series. They have beaten Detroit's two best pitchers. Now, put the hammer down tomorrow.

I don't want to see any Sunday lineups. Vizquel and Flowers don't need to play. I don't want to hear any bull**** about "just winning series."

The Sox are still in third place, and the Tigers are still ahead of them. The best way to change that is to kick Detroit's ass in head-to-head competition. Tomorrow's game is no less important than today's game was. I hope the Sox treat it that way.


No problem with Flowers. AJ could use a rest. I know it has been only two games since the break, but he has been getting knocked around by foul balls a lot these two games. I wouldn't mind Vizquel as long as he DHs for Dunn. :tongue:

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 10:09 PM
This may surprise you, but Juan is not going to be hitting at an .800 clip for the rest of the season. Also, Juan got the benefit of a bad call on one of those stolen bases.

There's nothing that Juan brings to the table that the Sox will necessarily miss if he were to be moved.

Yes, that is what you pulled out of my post--that I think he will hit .800. :rolleyes:

Incredible.

JermaineDye05
07-16-2011, 10:11 PM
Yes, that is what you pulled out of my post--that I think he will hit .800. :rolleyes:

Incredible.

Well, then I have no idea what your argument may be which considers Juan to not be expendable.

slavko
07-16-2011, 10:14 PM
This. And trade Pierre if anyone will take him.

If he had 5 hits today you wouldn't say that.

JB98
07-16-2011, 10:16 PM
No problem with Flowers. AJ could use a rest. I know it has been only two games since the break, but he has been getting knocked around by foul balls a lot these two games. I wouldn't mind Vizquel as long as he DHs for Dunn. :tongue:

Nonsense. AJ can have a day off in Kansas City.

The Tigers are ahead of the White Sox in the standings. The difference between being two behind and four behind is huge.

You play the A lineup tomorrow. Guys can take a day off when the Sox are playing someone below them in the standings.

soltrain21
07-16-2011, 10:20 PM
This may surprise you, but Juan is not going to be hitting at an .800 clip for the rest of the season. Also, Juan got the benefit of a bad call on one of those stolen bases.

There's nothing that Juan brings to the table that the Sox will necessarily miss if he were to be moved.

How do you know he got the benefit of a bad call if you didn't watch?

Frater Perdurabo
07-16-2011, 10:22 PM
You play the A lineup tomorrow. Guys can take a day off when the Sox are playing someone below them in the standings.

Agreed. Everyone but Paulie and Quentin just had FOUR days off. Play the A lineup. I might go with Morel instead of Teahen, though.

A. Cavatica
07-16-2011, 10:26 PM
And if Peavy and /or Danks dont stay healthy? Trade Pierre? Now?

Have you given up on the season?

Absolutely. Right when the team did, back in April.

GlassSox
07-16-2011, 10:32 PM
I'm not picking on you, because I've caught baseball "experts" saying it also, but a 'Shutout' is a complete game. All you have to say is he pitched a shutout. Again I'm not picking on you. It's just something that really bugs me.

Oops :redface: but life is too short, don't let the little things bug you

captain54
07-16-2011, 10:38 PM
. We really need a good road trip here and a sweep would be awesome. Of course ooking at the box score from today, Dunn and Rios were a combined 0-8 with 5 strikeouts. I guess nothing more can be said that hasn't been said a million times, but those two guys still boggle my mind how bad they are.

No matter which you look at it, those guys HAVE to hit in order for the Sox to do anything. There's no way around it. Le'ts get to .500 and closer to first than we are to fourth place and I'm back to thinking the glass is half full instead of half empty

voodoochile
07-16-2011, 10:53 PM
This. And trade Pierre if anyone will take him.

Just curious but why? If you really think he's that worthless what will they get back for him? What will they gain in terms of player development? Who is the stud leadoff guy he is blocking with is average and improving leadoff numbers?

Dumping him for no reason at all only puts money in JR's pocket. If there's actually a way to make the team stronger then it's a valid idea, but to dump him just for the sake of dumping him seems silly...

DumpJerry
07-16-2011, 10:56 PM
Just curious but why? If you really think he's that worthless what will they get back for him? What will they gain in terms of player development? Who is the stud leadoff guy he is blocking with is average and improving leadoff numbers?

Dumping him for no reason at all only puts money in JR's pocket. If there's actually a way to make the team stronger then it's a valid idea, but to dump him just for the sake of dumping him seems silly...
But.....but....we hate him....must trade him....

Irishsox1
07-16-2011, 11:01 PM
The Rios-0-meter is up to .209!

DickAllen72
07-16-2011, 11:08 PM
Nonsense. AJ can have a day off in Kansas City.

The Tigers are ahead of the White Sox in the standings. The difference between being two behind and four behind is huge.

You play the A lineup tomorrow. Guys can take a day off when the Sox are playing someone below them in the standings.
Play Morel at 3B and let Teahen DH. Start Lillibridge in CF. All the other regulars, including "Iron Man Pierzynski" should start tomorrow. Let's sweep these bastards!

A. Cavatica
07-16-2011, 11:18 PM
Just curious but why? If you really think he's that worthless what will they get back for him? What will they gain in terms of player development? Who is the stud leadoff guy he is blocking with is average and improving leadoff numbers?

Dumping him for no reason at all only puts money in JR's pocket. If there's actually a way to make the team stronger then it's a valid idea, but to dump him just for the sake of dumping him seems silly...

When a player with Pierre's limited skill set loses his speed, it's not pretty. We've had an extended preview of his future. If someone could be lured into picking up that contract because Pierre's had a good game or two, you have to dump him.

I don't think they'll get much back except salary relief, and that salary could be used for someone who is actually good at baseball.

Zakath
07-16-2011, 11:31 PM
We have the worst record in the entire AL at home, yet are the only team in the AL Central playing above .500 on the road. :scratch:

hawkjt
07-16-2011, 11:36 PM
That was such a horsecrap call on Gordo's taking off from third. Rod Allen was totally faked out,as were the umps,by the Tigers making a big deal out of it....such a homer call,makes me fricking sick!
The replay confirmed it was clearly a bad call yet Lewin and Allen did not even comment,chumps.
Juan is hitting and running again,and those who wrote him off cannot stomach it so now they want him gone....geezz..just swallow your egos and admit that the guy has been the hottest hitter on the team the last 15 games.

Great effort by Edwin. Really nice to see him throw first two pitch strikes so much..the Tigers chased a lot of low and inside sliders behind in the count. Wipeout!!!

Sundays game is huge. Keep it going. O's beat the Tribe tonite. 4 games behind the Indians, 3 behind the Tigers....keep it going!

johnnyg83
07-17-2011, 12:34 AM
I'm not a Jackson fan and if he can get us a few bodies for our depleted ML system I'd take it.

I like his stuff, but he's so unpredictable. He's the anti
-Beurhle.

voodoochile
07-17-2011, 01:05 AM
When a player with Pierre's limited skill set loses his speed, it's not pretty. We've had an extended preview of his future. If someone could be lured into picking up that contract because Pierre's had a good game or two, you have to dump him.

I don't think they'll get much back except salary relief, and that salary could be used for someone who is actually good at baseball.

This year? Who do you propose picking up for the 1-2M in savings that will make the Sox better? Edit: and who are you trading to get them?

SOXYoose
07-17-2011, 01:05 AM
JP has been great lately. If we gotta live/die with Dunn then hanging in with JP is not a stretch.

PeteWard
07-17-2011, 01:21 AM
Well, then I have no idea what your argument may be which considers Juan to not be expendable.


Because he is red hot and has turned it around. Hey he could go into an extended slump. That's baseball. Right now he is playing his ass off but you can't acknowledge it.

And who will lead off if he goes?

You have gone far beyond the limit of objective criticism and you can't admit when you are wrong. You can't even give him credit for a stolen base. It does not matter if the ump blew it or not, it is a stolen base.

Falstaff
07-17-2011, 01:28 AM
Nonsense. AJ can have a day off in Kansas City.

The Tigers are ahead of the White Sox in the standings. The difference between being two behind and four behind is huge.

You play the A lineup tomorrow. Guys can take a day off when the Sox are playing someone below them in the standings.


Yes. And for that matter he can sleep on the airplane, that is what I do to catch up on Zzzzzs. Play the A team and prove that we are "all in".

thomas35forever
07-17-2011, 02:40 AM
Jackson + Pierre = easy win

BainesHOF
07-17-2011, 04:27 AM
Jackson was an absolute stud. He tends to throw a lot of pitches even when he pitches well, but not in this one. He was fun to watch.

Quentin is a competitor. I'm all for making changes, but I'm not sure it would be smart to trade him. This team needs more players who compete hard, not fewer.

This place is amusing. Two good wins and everything suddenly is rosy. There's nothing wrong with enjoying them, but let's be realistic. Sure, Pierre helped the team win, but did you see him run the bases? He screwed up twice -- mindlessly running to third on a grounder to third and then not scoring from third on a chopper up the middle. And baserunning is supposed to be his strength? The screwups weren't even due to his decreased speed. They were mental errors. Totally unacceptable. I guess you might be able to explain away his not scoring up the middle on the chopper because he thought the pitcher might get it and the infield was playing in, blah, blah, blah. But running to third on a grounder to third? That was ridiculous. He was lucky that he was safe. What was going through his mind? That was Little League.

This is not a good team, and won't be. It just makes too many wierd mistakes, even in wins. The trait doesn't lend itself to winning consistently.

The division is awful, but how are we going to win it with the team's poor mental makeup, including that of Guillen, and two automatic outs in the lineup in Dunn and Rios?

PeteWard
07-17-2011, 05:00 AM
Jackson was an absolute stud. He tends to throw a lot of pitches even when he pitches well, but not in this one. He was fun to watch.

Quentin is a competitor. I'm all for making changes, but I'm not sure it would be smart to trade him. This team needs more players who compete hard, not fewer.

This place is amusing. Two good wins and everything suddenly is rosy. There's nothing wrong with enjoying them, but let's be realistic. Sure, Pierre helped the team win, but did you see him run the bases? He screwed up twice -- mindlessly running to third on a grounder to third and then not scoring from third on a chopper up the middle. And baserunning is supposed to be his strength? The screwups weren't even due to his decreased speed. They were mental errors. Totally unacceptable. I guess you might be able to explain away his not scoring up the middle on the chopper because he thought the pitcher might get it and the infield was playing in, blah, blah, blah. But running to third on a grounder to third? That was ridiculous. He was lucky that he was safe. What was going through his mind? That was Little League.

This is not a good team, and won't be. It just makes too many wierd mistakes, even in wins. The trait doesn't lend itself to winning consistently.

The division is awful, but how are we going to win it with the team's poor mental makeup, including that of Guillen, and two automatic outs in the lineup in Dunn and Rios?

He was not lucky he was safe. He simply ran past the the tag and it was not that close. Use facts please.

A. Cavatica
07-17-2011, 06:03 AM
This year? Who do you propose picking up for the 1-2M in savings that will make the Sox better? Edit: and who are you trading to get them?

This year is irrelevant. The team is not going to win until the assclown manager and his trusty sidekick are gone.

kufram
07-17-2011, 07:09 AM
Yes, play the A team today please... and that can include Lillibridge in CF and Teahen at 3B if you want.

Juan Pierre is gone at the end of the season and should be. BUT, he is a level headed professional player who kept his cool through an atrocious time at the start of the season. He made adjustments and has been a key contributor for several weeks now. Those who want rid of him now have given up on the team and just want changes for change's sake. His lack of stolen bases is not good but he knows how to use his bat in critical situations. By the way, he saw the 3rd baseman move in to field the ball and ran past him. The guy didn't even try to tag him because he knew he couldn't get him. That was a gutsy, heads-up play.

It is only 2 wins but it is 2 wins of a different nature from previous wins. We have pitching and we have defense. Our infield has made everything look easy for quite a while now. We have a good bench although weakened a little by the loss of Castro but this is a chance for someone (Flowers?) to take that role on.

The bullpen will be as good as the starting pitching allows it to be.

IF we get situational hitting to go with the pitching and defense then you have a team. Add a little confidence and then anything can happen. Add Dunn and everything can happen. Add Rios (his fielding isn't as bad as some make out... actually, NO ONE'S fielding is as bad as some make out) no, that would be asking too much!

This team was never as bad as they were playing. Getting through the first half of the season playing as badly as they did could turn into a team strength. Notice I didn't say it will, just that it could.

I didn't want to slit my throat after the horrible losses although I was disappointed. I'm not ready to crown them champs after 2 good wins although I am excited. I just want good baseball to watch for as long as possible and giving up on this team in April or May must just ruin wins like the last two for some and that is their loss.

spawn
07-17-2011, 07:53 AM
In the 9th, the broadcaster (don't remember who) said the Sox are #1 in the AL in fielding % in the AL. I know the aside from the dropped fly balls early this season, I hadn't realized the defense has been this good.

JermaineDye05
07-17-2011, 08:00 AM
Because he is red hot and has turned it around. Hey he could go into an extended slump. That's baseball. Right now he is playing his ass off but you can't acknowledge it.

And who will lead off if he goes?

You have gone far beyond the limit of objective criticism and you can't admit when you are wrong. You can't even give him credit for a stolen base. It does not matter if the ump blew it or not, it is a stolen base.

The umpire's blown call matters a bit because it further shows that Juan has lost a step.

Despite being "red hot," Juan is now just hitting a mediocre .275 with an OBP in the low .330s.

Lead-off hitter is not a position it is ridiculously overrated to the point where people think a slappy singles hitter with a low on base percentage who steals bases at a 50% rate is actually a good player.

Juan's been on a great streak thus far. However, he's not irreplaceable. From what he's shown us the rest of the season, I think you'd have to jump at the chance to trade him if given an offer.

Zakath
07-17-2011, 08:24 AM
In the 9th, the broadcaster (don't remember who) said the Sox are #1 in the AL in fielding % in the AL. I know the aside from the dropped fly balls early this season, I hadn't realized the defense has been this good.

We're actually #1 in MLB. .988 fielding %, 44 errors in 3575 total chances in 94 games.

The next closest in the AL are Tampa and Boston (both with 46 errors and .986 fielding %).

We also, amazingly, have the second longest winning streak in baseball right now, at 2 (and we're not tied with anyone for that).

October26
07-17-2011, 09:49 AM
Kufram,

Thanks for your great post. For some reason, my smart-stupidphone would not let me quote it, but I wanted to let you know that I agree with everything you said. :thumbsup:

I would only add that I do want to slit my throat after every Sox loss to the Twins. I hate that team so much.

As for this Tigers series, yesterday's win was great and now the Sox need to come out today and play well again and beat the Tigers. No Sunday lineup, please!

Let's go Philip & lets' go White Sox! :clap: :clap:

Brian26
07-17-2011, 10:46 AM
He was not lucky he was safe. He simply ran past the the tag and it was not that close. Use facts please.

I thought it was pretty close. He just missed the tag, and then Cabrera was pointing over there trying to get the ump to call him out of the baseline. Dumb play by Pierre in a tight game.

Brian26
07-17-2011, 10:49 AM
Despite being "red hot," Juan is now just hitting a mediocre .275 with an OBP in the low .330s.

His season averages now are irrelevant, as everyone knows its going to take awhile to get those up based on his slump in the first half. Pierre is hot and he's annually a better 2nd half player than first half. I'm not sure why you can direct some of your vitriol towards the two guys in the lineup who actually deserve it.

voodoochile
07-17-2011, 11:12 AM
This year is irrelevant. The team is not going to win until the assclown manager and his trusty sidekick are gone.

Then there's no point in trading him. The money saved this year won't be put toward next years player budget.

voodoochile
07-17-2011, 11:18 AM
The umpire's blown call matters a bit because it further shows that Juan has lost a step.

Despite being "red hot," Juan is now just hitting a mediocre .275 with an OBP in the low .330s.

Lead-off hitter is not a position it is ridiculously overrated to the point where people think a slappy singles hitter with a low on base percentage who steals bases at a 50% rate is actually a good player.

Juan's been on a great streak thus far. However, he's not irreplaceable. From what he's shown us the rest of the season, I think you'd have to jump at the chance to trade him if given an offer.

Since April Juan is...

246 AB 73 H .297 BA 10/13 SB

Your ridiculous over-the-top bull**** crusade is a ridiculous over-the-top bull**** crusade.

PeteWard
07-17-2011, 11:22 AM
Since April Juan is...

246 AB 73 H .297 BA 10/13 SB

Your ridiculous over-the-top bull**** crusade is a ridiculous over-the-top bull**** crusade.


He has plumbed the depths of stupidity on this.

PeteWard
07-17-2011, 11:23 AM
Sunday's lineup is identical to yesterday's. I would not mind seeing Rios sit but there it is. May he go 5 for 5 and prove me wrong.

PeteWard
07-17-2011, 11:25 AM
I thought it was pretty close. He just missed the tag, and then Cabrera was pointing over there trying to get the ump to call him out of the baseline. Dumb play by Pierre in a tight game.

He made it to third. The infielder did not have a chance. How is that dumb?

Nelfox02
07-17-2011, 11:27 AM
Sunday's lineup is identical to yesterday's. I would not mind seeing Rios sit but there it is. May he go 5 for 5 and prove me wrong.

a sweep here would be huge......it would be like the opposite of what we did last year, because wasnt that when we had the 4 gamer to open the second half in Minn, won a tight one to open it, then dropped the next three including the Jenks disaster in the finale (ugh, shudder, bad memories)


glad it is not Peavy going this day

PeteWard
07-17-2011, 11:29 AM
a sweep here would be huge......it would be like the opposite of what we did last year, because wasnt that when we had the 4 gamer to open the second half in Minn, won a tight one to open it, then dropped the next three including the Jenks disaster in the finale (ugh, shudder, bad memories)


glad it is not Peavy going this day

Gad, all I remember is the Jenks combustion. :(:

SCCWS
07-17-2011, 11:35 AM
Since April Juan is...

246 AB 73 H .297 BA 10/13 SB

Your ridiculous over-the-top bull**** crusade is a ridiculous over-the-top bull**** crusade.

I agree. Pierre is not the problem with the offense. The combination of Pierre, Rios, Morel, Beckham, and Dunn is the problem. The other 4 hitters are fine. But when you have a LF, 3B and 2B who are all below average power hitters, then when guys like Rios and Dunn have bad years, the offense becomes anemic. Teams can live with 1 or 2 of the proverbial "punch and judy" hitters especially if they provide defense or speed. But knowing Beckham and Pierre were not power hitters going in, adding a third in Morel at a power position was a mistake.
Eventually Pierre and probably Morel ( or even Beckham) need to be upgraded with someone with at least moderate power, assuming they are stuck w Rios and Dunn.

hawkjt
07-17-2011, 12:18 PM
Since April Juan is...

246 AB 73 H .297 BA 10/13 SB

Your ridiculous over-the-top bull**** crusade is a ridiculous over-the-top bull**** crusade.

He simply cannot retreat now....it would mean that he would have to actually start watching the games again.

Stubborn is as stubborn does.

sunofgold
07-17-2011, 02:02 PM
In the 9th, the broadcaster (don't remember who) said the Sox are #1 in the AL in fielding % in the AL. I know the aside from the dropped fly balls early this season, I hadn't realized the defense has been this good.

Defense has been solid since some bad play in April. When you make the plays that you should be making, nobody notices...haha! Only errors and webgems grab attention on the defensive side.

JermaineDye05
07-17-2011, 05:27 PM
His season averages now are irrelevant, as everyone knows its going to take awhile to get those up based on his slump in the first half. Pierre is hot and he's annually a better 2nd half player than first half. I'm not sure why you can direct some of your vitriol towards the two guys in the lineup who actually deserve it.

You can't just ignore the rest of his season like it never happened.

Juan isn't a .300 hitter just because he's been hitting like that for over a month.

He's still only a .270+ hitter.

I'm gonna guess by the end of the season, that's probably where he'll be, give or take .005 points.

BainesHOF
07-17-2011, 05:28 PM
He was not lucky he was safe. He simply ran past the the tag and it was not that close. Use facts please.

When on second base, a runner is not supposed to run to third on a grounder to the left side until it gets through. How's that?