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Hitmen77
07-15-2011, 05:08 PM
Since the end of the 2008 season, what has been Kenny Williams's best transaction?

Am I missing anything here, because none of the options I can come up with are all that great.

Chez
07-15-2011, 05:11 PM
Santos? Humber? Bringing back Paulie?

Hitmen77
07-15-2011, 05:15 PM
Santos? Humber?

D'oh!!!! I had Humber in mind and then forgot to put him down as an option.

For Santos, for some reason I thought he was drafted by the Sox before 2008. Looking it up now, I see that he was a (Rule 5?) free agent signing in January 2009.

:redface:

dickallen15
07-15-2011, 05:16 PM
This Doug Davis signing is pretty special.

JermaineDye05
07-15-2011, 05:17 PM
Humber

I'm still holding out hope that Dunn will turn back to form. Probably not this year, but next year hopefully.

Daver
07-15-2011, 05:19 PM
D'oh!!!! I had Humber in mind and then forgot to put him down as an option.

For Santos, for some reason I thought he was drafted by the Sox before 2008. Looking it up now, I see that he was a (Rule 5?) free agent signing in January 2009.

:redface:


Fixed.

Hitmen77
07-15-2011, 05:23 PM
Fixed.

Thank you, sir!

:tiphat:

Daver
07-15-2011, 05:24 PM
Thank you, sir!

:tiphat:

Nellie and Torn are sirs, I do not qualify.

Gavin
07-15-2011, 05:33 PM
Wow. This list is pathetic.

FielderJones
07-15-2011, 05:35 PM
Wow. This list is pathetic.

Pujols wasn't available last year.

SoxSpeed22
07-15-2011, 05:37 PM
If Santos was there earlier, I would've voted for him. Instead, I voted for Castro. He turned a bust into a good backup catcher.

Gavin
07-15-2011, 05:38 PM
Pujols wasn't available last year.

.. Kenny's great white buffalo.

Nelfox02
07-15-2011, 06:03 PM
to the OP, thanks for posting both sides of the coin as polls....when you look at it like this it hammers home just how awful KW has been the last few years.........que horible......

PorkChopExpress
07-15-2011, 06:11 PM
JJ Putz was great for us. Plus he got us our supplemental round pick this year.

central44
07-15-2011, 07:03 PM
To his credit, Danks, Floyd, Thornton, Humber, Santos, Alexei, Quentin...those are all really good moves. Unfortunanty most of them came before 2008.

Since then he's been awful. I'd say Santos was the best--hopefully Humber turns out just as good though.

nitetrain8601
07-15-2011, 07:14 PM
I'd still say Peavy. It didn't work out because of injuries, but the guy was a year removed from Cy Young. It was the best case of selling high. Now in retrospect, anyone can say "Richard is healthy and cheap...Peavy's older and injury prone." That, is not fair to Kenny though as he got the best pitcher available.

MetroPD
07-15-2011, 08:37 PM
other - keeping Paul Konerko

SI1020
07-15-2011, 08:45 PM
I'd still say Peavy. It didn't work out because of injuries, but the guy was a year removed from Cy Young. It was the best case of selling high. Now in retrospect, anyone can say "Richard is healthy and cheap...Peavy's older and injury prone." That, is not fair to Kenny though as he got the best pitcher available. If a deal doesn't work out then it's a bad deal. No matter how popular or good it looked when the deal was made.

Hitmen77
07-15-2011, 10:02 PM
to the OP, thanks for posting both sides of the coin as polls....when you look at it like this it hammers home just how awful KW has been the last few years.........que horible......

Yep, the "best" and "worst" choices side by side look pretty bad for Ken Williams and the Sox.

Frater Perdurabo
07-15-2011, 10:14 PM
Tie between Humber and Santos. Where would the Sox be without those two this year?

PeteWard
07-16-2011, 12:52 AM
Yep, the "best" and "worst" choices side by side look pretty bad for Ken Williams and the Sox.

Well if you limit it to 2008 and beyond, you are right, but I am not sure if that is fair as it is not indicative of KWs entire body of work.

doublem23
07-16-2011, 01:08 AM
Either Humber or Santos. It's weird, Kenny and his staff seem to have this eye for retreads and castaways (well, sometimes) but when he swings for the fences, he draws nothing but air.

KW's ability to occasionally find cheap, talented players on the scrap heap are the one thing keeping me optimistic about the next 2-3 seasons, since the Sox are going to need to be very creative to stay afloat while anchored by three massive contracts for underperforming players (to date).

No surprise, though, that all the finds seem to be pitchers, since our pitching coach is great and our hitting coach is awful.

TomBradley72
07-16-2011, 02:40 AM
Well if you limit it to 2008 and beyond, you are right, but I am not sure if that is fair as it is not indicative of KWs entire body of work.

In professional sports- a three year window is a decent sample size to assess recent performance. If I had KW's record over the last three years at my job- they'd fire me-even if I was great for a 3-4 years before that.

This poll doesn't even reflect his biggest moves- Signing Adam Dunn, Claiming Alex Rios off waivers plus Mark Teahen's 3 year contract.

TaylorStSox
07-16-2011, 03:43 AM
He's had a bad couple years, but in that time he acquired our best starter and reliever. It's kind of strange really. He does have an eye for buying low on underachievers. He's done that during his whole tenure. The Swisher trades are just, well, embarrassing though.

With that said, when he's gone, fans should look at his career in a really positive light. His early Kenny "The Gambler" moves won us a world series. There was a time in my life that I thought I'd never see it happen. Thousands of Sox fans lived long lives and never witnessed a World Series win. Pods, Dye, AJ, Crazy Carl, Contreras, Garcia, Jenks, Hermanson... All these moves were either highly scrutinized or seemed trivial, but all paved the way for us reaching that plateau. So, I'll always have a soft spot for Kenny "The Gambler" Williams. I've always liked his philosophy of taking risks for high upside guys.

soxfanreggie
07-16-2011, 12:24 PM
Alexei or PK's extensions...if not that, then Humber.

slavko
07-16-2011, 10:11 PM
Does not signing Jenks count?

Hitmen77
07-18-2011, 09:20 AM
In professional sports- a three year window is a decent sample size to assess recent performance. If I had KW's record over the last three years at my job- they'd fire me-even if I was great for a 3-4 years before that.

This poll doesn't even reflect his biggest moves- Signing Adam Dunn, Claiming Alex Rios off waivers plus Mark Teahen's 3 year contract.

Those are listed in the companion poll: Worst KW Transactions since 2008.

Yes, I agree with your 3 year window comment. Going back 10 years to look at his entire body of work gets less and less representative of the team the White Sox are fielding this year.

One could argue that these polls could be pushed back a year or two to encompass the Danks, Floyd, and Quentin trades. That's a valid point, but how long are the Sox going to rest on the laurels of those great trades? Danks and Quentin are in their arbitration years, getting more expensive each year, and inching toward free agency. If the White Sox need to point to them as "recent" good trades, then this franchise is indeed in trouble.

Milw
07-18-2011, 10:25 AM
Resigned Konerko at a fair price.

Hitmen77
07-18-2011, 10:34 AM
One transaction I forgot to include (in either the best or worst list) was Juan Pierre from the Dodgers for John Ely and John Link in Dec. 2009.

I'm not saying it should be voted the 'best' OR 'worst', all I'm saying is that I forgot to include this on the list.

GoSox2K3
07-18-2011, 02:48 PM
When did Santos convert to a pitcher? Was this after he was acquired by the White Sox? I'm just curious if KW really had an eye for what Santos could be as a pitcher, or did he really acquire him as a position player?

Falstaff
07-18-2011, 10:11 PM
I have always liked the Edwin Jackson trade. If he continues recent form he will be the stud of the rotation for the second half, and on through the World Series. Man has no hitter udder the belt, and can be filthy when mixes in some strikes. Am expecting big things from this acquisition and I am no fool.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2011, 11:21 PM
With respect should that comment be in teal? I'm confused.

:?:

Lip

Falstaff
07-19-2011, 01:01 AM
No teal, I do think EJ has potential to be monster.
I did mean to say has no hitter under the belt and is most
successful mixing strikes and some offspeed. Sorry I had
a client on the phone when I posted earlier.

DSpivack
07-19-2011, 11:22 AM
No teal, I do think EJ has potential to be monster.
I did mean to say has no hitter under the belt and is most
successful mixing strikes and some offspeed. Sorry I had
a client on the phone when I posted earlier.

I think every team that's acquired him throughout his career has thought that. And it is never been true. This was also true of Javier Vazquez, the difference being that Jackson's highs are not as high as Vazquez, and his lows are not quite as low. Still, he has a lot of talent but just doesn't have it all to be an elite pitcher. And at this point in his career, I think he's shown what he can be, good but never great.

Falstaff
07-19-2011, 07:19 PM
I think every team that's acquired him throughout his career has thought that. And it is never been true. This was also true of Javier Vazquez, the difference being that Jackson's highs are not as high as Vazquez, and his lows are not quite as low. Still, he has a lot of talent but just doesn't have it all to be an elite pitcher. And at this point in his career, I think he's shown what he can be, good but never great.
OK, but does Javy have a no-hitter on resume? How many CGSO? I think EJ more possibly resembles Jose Contreras '04 early '05, then he figured it all out, was lights out pitcher till the body gave out. (EJ is younger tho). I see signs EJ making this same leap, next start will tell.

Falstaff
07-19-2011, 07:20 PM
I think every team that's acquired him throughout his career has thought that. And it is never been true. This was also true of Javier Vazquez, the difference being that Jackson's highs are not as high as Vazquez, and his lows are not quite as low. Still, he has a lot of talent but just doesn't have it all to be an elite pitcher. And at this point in his career, I think he's shown what he can be, good but never great.
OK, but does Javy have a no-hitter on resume? How many CGSO? I think EJ more possibly has resembled Jose Contreras '04 early '05, then when he figured it all out, was lights out pitcher till the body gave out. (EJ is younger tho). I see signs EJ is now making this same leap, next start will tell.

Daver
07-19-2011, 10:20 PM
OK, but does Javy have a no-hitter on resume? How many CGSO? I think EJ more possibly has resembled Jose Contreras '04 early '05, then when he figured it all out, was lights out pitcher till the body gave out. (EJ is younger tho). I see signs EJ is now making this same leap, next start will tell.

Trying to evaluate pitching game to game is an impossible task, because pitching is more mental than physical when it comes to performance most of the time, it's been this way for close to forty years.

A. Cavatica
07-22-2011, 12:48 AM
This All-Kenny Team is not as good as the All-Kenny Busts team (over in the Worst KW Transaction thread) is bad.

Kenny hasn't acquired many first basemen because Konerko has been a constant, and he has acquired many center fielders but I can't come up with a good one.

c - Pierzynski
1b -
2b - Beckham
ss - Ramirez
3b - Uribe
lf - Podsednik
cf - A. Jones?
rf - Quentin
dh - Thome
sp - Contreras, Danks, Garcia, Floyd, Loaiza, Humber
rp - Jenks, Thornton, Cotts, Politte, Putz

HaroMaster87
07-22-2011, 01:44 AM
This All-Kenny Team is not as good as the All-Kenny Busts team (over in the Worst KW Transaction thread) is bad.

Kenny hasn't acquired many first basemen because Konerko has been a constant, and he has acquired many center fielders but I can't come up with a good one.

c - Pierzynski
1b -
2b - Beckham
ss - Ramirez
3b - Uribe
lf - Podsednik
cf - A. Jones?
rf - Quentin
dh - Thome
sp - Contreras, Danks, Garcia, Floyd, Loaiza, Humber
rp - Jenks, Thornton, Cotts, Politte, Putz

2b - Iguchi
rf - Dye...no question
rp - crain, santos...swap for politte & cotts, both one year flukes

Tragg
07-22-2011, 01:44 AM
rp - Jenks, Thornton, Cotts, Politte, Putz

I would put Marte on that list; he was outstanding for most of 02-04.

A. Cavatica
07-22-2011, 01:57 AM
2b - Iguchi
rf - Dye...no question
rp - crain, santos...swap for politte & cotts, both one year flukes

Damn, I knew I was forgetting people. I was going off a list of transactions from mlbtraderumors.com (couldn't find a more complete source).

steviestayfresh
07-22-2011, 03:49 PM
Other....trading for Jerry Owens.:bandance:

Hitmen77
08-01-2011, 01:37 PM
One of KW's better acquisitions over the last few years (Phil Humber) seems to be coming back down to earth. If that continues, it will makes Kenny's list of "best" transactions look even less impressive.

The leading vote for his best transaction was acquiring Santos. Interestingly, it looks like the Sox traded Santos to the Giants in 2009 only to have SF trade him back shortly afterward. Does anyone know what was up with that?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santose01.shtml

waldo_the_wolf
08-01-2011, 05:15 PM
One of KW's better acquisitions over the last few years (Phil Humber) seems to be coming back down to earth. If that continues, it will makes Kenny's list of "best" transactions look even less impressive.

The leading vote for his best transaction was acquiring Santos. Interestingly, it looks like the Sox traded Santos to the Giants in 2009 only to have SF trade him back shortly afterward. Does anyone know what was up with that?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santose01.shtml

I was wondering the same thing about Santos and I found this article that explains what happened.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110526&content_id=19626200&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

His signing easily gets my vote.

asindc
08-01-2011, 05:51 PM
If a deal doesn't work out then it's a bad deal. No matter how popular or good it looked when the deal was made.

While I agree with premise of the thread title (that KW hasn't been that good since 2008), this strikes me as Monday morning QBing.