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View Full Version : Ozzie thinks we should stand pat


JermaineDye05
07-14-2011, 05:45 PM
Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110714&content_id=21780208&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws&partnerId=rss_cws)

No.

Lip Man 1
07-14-2011, 05:55 PM
:o:

Lip

kittle42
07-14-2011, 06:01 PM
I only agree in the sense that we shouldn't be adding anybody. The team stinks.

DirtySox
07-14-2011, 06:03 PM
I only agree in the sense that we shouldn't be adding anybody. The team stinks.

Agreed. Stand pat or subtract.

JermaineDye05
07-14-2011, 06:18 PM
Agreed. Stand pat or subtract.

I'd at least like them to cut some of the dead weight and bring up Viciedo.

At the very least get him some more at-bats to get him more acclimated with major league pitching.

DSpivack
07-14-2011, 06:29 PM
Agreed. Stand pat or subtract.

Oh, I can think of one subtraction I would love to see...

RKMeibalane
07-14-2011, 06:32 PM
I'd at least like them to cut some of the dead weight and bring up Viciedo.

At the very least get him some more at-bats to get him more acclimated with major league pitching.

Agreed. This nonsense of the Sox "not having a position" for him is ridiculous. If they can find room for Dunn's .160 batting average, they can find room for Viciedo: the way the ball jumps off his bat reminds me of Big Frank circa 1992. He hits everything hard.

Sox
07-14-2011, 06:41 PM
I'm sure the captain of the Titanic felt the same way...:shakehead: :gah:

DirtySox
07-14-2011, 06:42 PM
I'd at least like them to cut some of the dead weight and bring up Viciedo.

At the very least get him some more at-bats to get him more acclimated with major league pitching.

I agree. Didn't feel a need to post it. I think most everyone want Viciedo up except for 1 or 2 people.

Lip Man 1
07-14-2011, 06:50 PM
And they (unfortunately) are the folks who count (if you are referring to Ozzie and perhaps a coach)

Lip

JermaineDye05
07-14-2011, 06:56 PM
And they (unfortunately) are the folks who count (if you are referring to Ozzie and perhaps a coach)

Lip

Unless Daver is Ozzie or that coach, then we have three.

captain54
07-14-2011, 07:17 PM
I'd at least like them to cut some of the dead weight and bring up Viciedo.

.

While you're cutting dead weight, how about taking that paring knife to some of the powers-that-be in the front office and dugout?

JermaineDye05
07-14-2011, 07:19 PM
While you're cutting dead weight, how about taking that paring knife to some of the powers-that-be in the front office and dugout?

I'd be perfectly fine with that as well.

Somebody needs to be held accountable. If it isn't the players, then it's the coaches or the GM.

You can't just turn a blind eye to this mess.

Noneck
07-14-2011, 07:27 PM
Unless Daver is Ozzie or that coach, then we have three.

Make that four.

russ99
07-14-2011, 07:47 PM
4 and a half.

Viciedo should continue to develop so he can take a full-time outfield role next year, and the Sox should be commended for being patient on a AAA prospect for once.

How often have we brought up a prospect to stagnate in the bigs, and sit on the bench? And you know the kid would sit if Dunn and/or Rios can start hitting.

Viciedo should only be called up if there's an injury to a OF/1B/DH, a long term benching or for September call-ups.

I know it sucks to see Dunn and Rios stinking the place up everyday, but that's no reason to assume Viciedo can "save the season" or to just make a change - for any change's sake.

JermaineDye05
07-14-2011, 07:54 PM
4 and a half.

Viciedo should continue to develop so he can take a full-time outfield role next year, and the Sox should be commended for being patient on a AAA prospect for once.

How often have we brought up a prospect to stagnate in the bigs, and sit on the bench? And you know the kid would sit if Dunn and/or Rios can start hitting.

Viciedo should only be called up if there's an injury to a OF/1B/DH, a long term benching or for September call-ups.

I know it sucks to see Dunn and Rios stinking the place up everyday, but that's no reason to assume Viciedo can "save the season" or to just make a change - for any change's sake.

Release Pierre or trade Quentin. Problem solved.

Daver
07-14-2011, 08:05 PM
4 and a half.

Viciedo should continue to develop so he can take a full-time outfield role next year, and the Sox should be commended for being patient on a AAA prospect for once.

How often have we brought up a prospect to stagnate in the bigs, and sit on the bench? And you know the kid would sit if Dunn and/or Rios can start hitting.

Viciedo should only be called up if there's an injury to a OF/1B/DH, a long term benching or for September call-ups.

I know it sucks to see Dunn and Rios stinking the place up everyday, but that's no reason to assume Viciedo can "save the season" or to just make a change - for any change's sake.

I think about how Gordon could have benefited from another year in the minors to acclimate himself to the transition to a wood bat, something that will take a lot longer to do against MLB pitching.

JermaineDye05
07-14-2011, 08:11 PM
I think about how Gordon could have benefited from another year in the minors to acclimate himself to the transition to a wood bat, something that will take a lot longer to do against MLB pitching.

Difference is Gordon was given less than a year in the minors. Dayan's been down there since 2009. Also, while he was playing in Cuba, I'm fairly certain he was using wooden bats.

balke
07-14-2011, 09:07 PM
Pretty cut and dry to me. You've got 4 games Ozzie - lose this series and the team blows up.

BigKlu59
07-14-2011, 09:11 PM
4 and a half.

Viciedo should continue to develop so he can take a full-time outfield role next year, and the Sox should be commended for being patient on a AAA prospect for once.

How often have we brought up a prospect to stagnate in the bigs, and sit on the bench? And you know the kid would sit if Dunn and/or Rios can start hitting.

Viciedo should only be called up if there's an injury to a OF/1B/DH, a long term benching or for September call-ups.

I know it sucks to see Dunn and Rios stinking the place up everyday, but that's no reason to assume Viciedo can "save the season" or to just make a change - for any change's sake.

Dont know... Maybe the kid could become the second coming of Roy Hobbs :D:...I say bring him up and get him a few swings...

BK59

billyvsox
07-14-2011, 10:15 PM
4 and a half.

Viciedo should continue to develop so he can take a full-time outfield role next year, and the Sox should be commended for being patient on a AAA prospect for once.

How often have we brought up a prospect to stagnate in the bigs, and sit on the bench? And you know the kid would sit if Dunn and/or Rios can start hitting.

Viciedo should only be called up if there's an injury to a OF/1B/DH, a long term benching or for September call-ups.

I know it sucks to see Dunn and Rios stinking the place up everyday, but that's no reason to assume Viciedo can "save the season" or to just make a change - for any change's sake.
I have no visions that Viciedo can be the savior to miserabe season. My reasons for bringing him up have to do with accountability and chemistry. How in the world a guy hitting .160 can hit fourth and a pathetic CF like Rios can stay in the lineup are beyond me.

The you have a guy tearing up the ball and hitting .325 and he sits in AAA. How do you think he feels?, how do you think producers like Paulie, Aj, the pitchers feel about this?

For that reason alone Viciedo shpuld be called up to help.

PalehosePlanet
07-14-2011, 10:49 PM
4 and a half.

Viciedo should continue to develop so he can take a full-time outfield role next year, and the Sox should be commended for being patient on a AAA prospect for once.

How often have we brought up a prospect to stagnate in the bigs, and sit on the bench? And you know the kid would sit if Dunn and/or Rios can start hitting.

Viciedo should only be called up if there's an injury to a OF/1B/DH, a long term benching or for September call-ups.

I know it sucks to see Dunn and Rios stinking the place up everyday, but that's no reason to assume Viciedo can "save the season" or to just make a change - for any change's sake.

Viciedo doesn't have to "save the season" or put up monster stats. With our rock solid pitching all we would need is a spark, a big hit here and there and we're right back in this thing. How many games have we lost this year where we've been just one hit short of a win? How many have we lost where we gave up three runs or less?

Dayan winning the triple crown in AAA would be a ****ing joke since the parent club can't score any runs. I guarantee you if he were a worthless slap hitter w/30+ stolen bases, ala Jerry Owens, Ozzie would find room for him. In fact if Ozzie is still here next year I bet Coco Crisp's declining, near worthless, ass is on our team.

aloha
07-14-2011, 11:08 PM
you have to stand pat. ozzie could win the division and then maybe win a playoff game.

thomas35forever
07-15-2011, 12:09 AM
There's not a whole lot this team can do right now. Not saying nothing won't be done, but when you look at the roster and contracts, any change would be drastic (and most likely welcome).

A. Cavatica
07-15-2011, 12:24 AM
you have to stand pat. ozzie could win the division and then maybe win a playoff game.

Or you could fire Ozzie, bring in just about any AAA manager, and increase your chances of winning the division.

Tragg
07-15-2011, 12:33 AM
I agree with Oz. Stand pat and if that doesn't work, break it down.

RKMeibalane
07-15-2011, 04:44 AM
I agree with Oz. Stand pat and if that doesn't work, break it down.

We have three months of empirical data (the first half of this season) to prove that it doesn't work. How much more time does Ozzie need?

Oh, I keep forgetting... the first half of the season doesn't matter, because the first half is the time for experimenting, and the second half is the time for trying to win, as the great Jerry "The Tinkerer" Manuel pointed out eight years ago.

RKMeibalane
07-15-2011, 04:49 AM
Viciedo doesn't have to "save the season" or put up monster stats. With our rock solid pitching all we would need is a spark, a big hit here and there and we're right back in this thing. How many games have we lost this year where we've been just one hit short of a win? How many have we lost where we gave up three runs or less?

Dayan winning the triple crown in AAA would be a ****ing joke since the parent club can't score any runs. I guarantee you if he were a worthless slap hitter w/30+ stolen bases, ala Jerry Owens, Ozzie would find room for him. In fact if Ozzie is still here next year I bet Coco Crisp's declining, near worthless, ass is on our team.

As long as the Sox don't plan on Dayan playing every day, he should remain in Charlotte, as much as I would love to see him on the South Side. He needs to get as many at-bats as possible. Right now, for reasons I don't comprehend, he's more likely to get those at-bats in the minor leagues.

Things may change if Quentin is traded to a National League contender (the Phillies are interested), though if the Sox decide to move TCQ, they should make every effort to obtain a player like Domonic Brown in return, who would most likely compete with Viciedo for outfield playing time.

The Dude
07-15-2011, 06:16 AM
Ozzie should not stay put.

Dan H
07-15-2011, 08:42 AM
Saying nothing is wrong is just more White Sox denial. This last home stand said a lot about the team. Standing pat to me means winning bewteen 75 and 80 games.

RKMeibalane
07-15-2011, 09:02 AM
Saying nothing is wrong is just more White Sox denial. This last home stand said a lot about the team. Standing pat to me means winning bewteen 75 and 80 games.

What's really disturbing is that winning 75-80 games doesn't leave the Sox that far out of first place at season's end, which management will likely use as justification for making a few minor changes in the off-season, and coming back in 2012 with essentially the same team as this season.

Domeshot17
07-15-2011, 09:27 AM
4 and a half.

Viciedo should continue to develop so he can take a full-time outfield role next year, and the Sox should be commended for being patient on a AAA prospect for once.

How often have we brought up a prospect to stagnate in the bigs, and sit on the bench? And you know the kid would sit if Dunn and/or Rios can start hitting.

Viciedo should only be called up if there's an injury to a OF/1B/DH, a long term benching or for September call-ups.

I know it sucks to see Dunn and Rios stinking the place up everyday, but that's no reason to assume Viciedo can "save the season" or to just make a change - for any change's sake.


:rolleyes: As soon as I saw the post title, I knew this post would be there.

It is just a repeat of last year. This team will not play for Ozzie.

Zisk77
07-15-2011, 10:33 AM
When has Ozzie ever said we needed to trade for anybody, ever?

kittle42
07-15-2011, 10:38 AM
What's really disturbing is that winning 75-80 games doesn't leave the Sox that far out of first place at season's end, which management will likely use as justification for making a few minor changes in the off-season, and coming back in 2012 with essentially the same team as this season.

We have a winner. Get ready for a few more years of crappy, maybe-hovering-at-.500-in-a-garbage-division baseball before this team admits it has to restock from the bottom.

Domeshot17
07-15-2011, 10:44 AM
We have a winner. Get ready for a few more years of crappy, maybe-hovering-at-.500-in-a-garbage-division baseball before this team admits it has to restock from the bottom.

But..But..But..But..2005!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bandance::bandance:

doublem23
07-15-2011, 10:45 AM
What's really disturbing is that winning 75-80 games doesn't leave the Sox that far out of first place at season's end, which management will likely use as justification for making a few minor changes in the off-season, and coming back in 2012 with essentially the same team as this season.

The salary constraints the Sox have backed themselves into a corner (Peavy, Rios, and Dunn alone will cost this team $43 M in 2012, $31.5 M in 2013, $27.5 M in 2014, and $1 M in 2015... Yes that is $103 M) so there's unlikely going to be much wiggle room... So it's probably in everyone's best interests if they, at least publicly, don't make any mentions of blowing everything up because, really, even if they wanted to, I'm not sure they can right now.

doublem23
07-15-2011, 10:47 AM
But..But..But..But..2005!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bandance::bandance:

Oh cut the ****, for Christ's sake

Tragg
07-15-2011, 11:01 AM
We have three months of empirical data (the first half of this season) to prove that it doesn't work. How much more time does Ozzie need?

Oh, I keep forgetting... the first half of the season doesn't matter, because the first half is the time for experimenting, and the second half is the time for trying to win, as the great Jerry "The Tinkerer" Manuel pointed out eight years ago.

I don't disagree that the status quo isn't working. But I also think we will be pretty good next year if we make the right moves THIS year.

But the worst thing to do is throw good money after bad...trade young players for Ozzie-style declining veterans who marginally produce better than the current players.

kittle42
07-15-2011, 11:06 AM
The salary constraints the Sox have backed themselves into a corner (Peavy, Rios, and Dunn alone will cost this team $43 M in 2012, $31.5 M in 2013, $27.5 M in 2014, and $1 M in 2015... Yes that is $103 M) so there's unlikely going to be much wiggle room... So it's probably in everyone's best interests if they, at least publicly, don't make any mentions of blowing everything up because, really, even if they wanted to, I'm not sure they can right now.

Yeah, I meant to mention this in my last post. Makes the whole situation even sadder. We either get really, really lucky in one of the next 2 seasons, or we get 2 more like this year, and then finally get to rebuild.

Christ.

balke
07-15-2011, 11:21 AM
The salary constraints the Sox have backed themselves into a corner (Peavy, Rios, and Dunn alone will cost this team $43 M in 2012, $31.5 M in 2013, $27.5 M in 2014, and $1 M in 2015... Yes that is $103 M) so there's unlikely going to be much wiggle room... So it's probably in everyone's best interests if they, at least publicly, don't make any mentions of blowing everything up because, really, even if they wanted to, I'm not sure they can right now.

They can try to trim fat still. Juan can come back for cheap - dump Q's salary and bring up Viciedo. Move AJ if possible. Jackson and Danks go loose - put Sale at starter role. Maybe even cut ties with Mark - but that actually might lose them attendance money.

They could probably trade Dunn in a year or 2 if he gets his swing back. Money can be saved. Just means bad starting pitching probably.

Domeshot17
07-15-2011, 11:21 AM
Oh cut the ****, for Christ's sake

Ha Sorry, I was more just making reference to the fact that since post 2005, we basically have been doing the same thing for years, putting together an 85 win team team and hoping it over achieves. This year is probably the most talented team we have had since 2005 (maybe sans 2006). Was just a joke, didn't think the teal was needed.

Noneck
07-15-2011, 11:39 AM
They can try to trim fat still. Juan can come back for cheap - dump Q's salary and bring up Viciedo. Move AJ if possible. Jackson and Danks go loose - put Sale at starter role. Maybe even cut ties with Mark - but that actually might lose them attendance money.

They could probably trade Dunn in a year or 2 if he gets his swing back. Money can be saved. Just means bad starting pitching probably.

One of the 3 may be able to be dumped if you package a Sale, Viciedo (now why his worth is highest), Beckham, or maybe Danks with one of the stiffs. Granted your return will only be a salary reilief but thats the only way to rid yourself of these guys unless you are willing to get another teams stiff in return.

Lip Man 1
07-15-2011, 12:15 PM
RK:

Well Matt Thornton did say this to Mark Gonzales today in the Tribune, "first half doesn't matter..."

Not sure if he was implying that the Sox need to get the first half out of their minds, forget about it and start fresh or what...but like it or not, Matt I'm sure, realizes the games count and the Sox are five out.

Lip

kittle42
07-15-2011, 12:30 PM
RK:

Well Matt Thornton did say this to Mark Gonzales today in the Tribune, "first half doesn't matter..."

Not sure if he was implying that the Sox need to get the first half out of their minds, forget about it and start fresh or what...but like it or not, Matt I'm sure, realizes the games count and the Sox are five out.

Lip

Come on, Lip - read the entire quote. He's clearly saying they haven't achieved and need to do so in the second half, not that the games don't matter.

Lip Man 1
07-15-2011, 12:35 PM
Kittle:

I would assume so but with this bunch, this organization, the last few years?? Who knows for sure.

Lip

Bucky F. Dent
07-15-2011, 12:44 PM
What's really disturbing is that winning 75-80 games doesn't leave the Sox that far out of first place at season's end, which management will likely use as justification for making a few minor changes in the off-season, and coming back in 2012 with essentially the same team as this season.


Yeah - but Jerry can't stand for that. Winning 80 might, MIGHT, win the division (and give you the opportunity to have your head handed to you in the first round of the playoffs). But Jerry knows that he "needs" to sell tickets to make sense of the current payroll. Losing teams do not make for high ticket sales.

Soxfest
07-15-2011, 12:55 PM
Of course OG wants to stand pat he sees no problem at all ............that is the problem OG lives in the land of OZ!:angry:

PalehosePlanet
07-15-2011, 01:08 PM
The salary constraints the Sox have backed themselves into a corner (Peavy, Rios, and Dunn alone will cost this team $43 M in 2012, $31.5 M in 2013, $27.5 M in 2014, and $1 M in 2015... Yes that is $103 M) so there's unlikely going to be much wiggle room... So it's probably in everyone's best interests if they, at least publicly, don't make any mentions of blowing everything up because, really, even if they wanted to, I'm not sure they can right now.

You're clearly assuming that at age 30 and 31 that Rios and Dunn are not just having career bad years but are finished. I think the odds are more favorable to these guys rebounding next year and playing to their career norms. If they produce, their contracts will not be an albatross on the payroll.

Peavy on the other hand is probably a waste of money but if he can at least pitch like a solid number 3 maybe we can live with it --- somewhat. We should consider shutting him down by Labor Day if we're out of the race and hope he is stronger next year.

Obviously, in order to truly compete, we'd need a couple of pre-arb type players, or early arb years players, to produce in the next couple of years. That would help the payroll situation immensely and IMO is attainable.

kufram
07-15-2011, 01:20 PM
The only thing we really need, in my opinion, is for everybody to play better and that isn't asking too much. Forget about blowing it up, forget about deals and trades... there may be one or two to be made but nothing wholesale. A lot of money went into this team and a lot of people thought it would be an offensive force. Very few people predicted the lack of offense we've seen. Of course, find a way to get Viciedo involved sooner than later but he was never coming up before now.

The only real hope we have is for this team to play better. Most reasonably minded people know that this team is not as bad as they've played. The key to the future is for this team to perform better now.

Rocky Soprano
07-15-2011, 01:26 PM
The only thing we really need, in my opinion, is for everybody to play better and that isn't asking too much. Forget about blowing it up, forget about deals and trades... there may be one or two to be made but nothing wholesale. A lot of money went into this team and a lot of people thought it would be an offensive force. Very few people predicted the lack of offense we've seen. Of course, find a way to get Viciedo involved sooner than later but he was never coming up before now.

The only real hope we have is for this team to play better. Most reasonably minded people know that this team is not as bad as they've played. The key to the future is for this team to perform better now.

I'm tired of hoping this team is going to turn it around.
I don't think the Sox can afford to stand pat.

russ99
07-15-2011, 02:02 PM
Saying nothing is wrong is just more White Sox denial. This last home stand said a lot about the team. Standing pat to me means winning bewteen 75 and 80 games.

I don't think anyone thinks "nothing is wrong" at this point, (especially Ozzie - did you see his comments the last week?) but let's see how they respond.

If our hitters can generate 2-3 more runs a game, we could be right back in this thing.

captain54
07-15-2011, 02:06 PM
The only real hope we have is for this team to play better. Most reasonably minded people know that this team is not as bad as they've played. The key to the future is for this team to perform better now.

We've been hearing the same mantra since mid 06'. It gets old.

kittle42
07-15-2011, 02:20 PM
If our hitters can generate 2-3 more runs a game, we could be right back in this thing.

If they only responded to their manager...

JermaineDye05
07-15-2011, 02:23 PM
If our hitters can generate 2-3 more runs a game, we could be right back in this thing.

If only we had 25 Juan Pierres on this team, we'd be unstoppable.

Tragg
07-15-2011, 02:39 PM
You're clearly assuming that at age 30 and 31 that Rios and Dunn are not just having career bad years but are finished. I think the odds are more favorable to these guys rebounding next year and playing to their career norms. If they produce, their contracts will not be an albatross on the payroll.


Unfortunately, Rios' career norm isn't very good. He's had a few great years, but those are anomalies; this year is particularly poor, but most have been mediocre.

rcescato
07-15-2011, 02:44 PM
Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110714&content_id=21780208&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws&partnerId=rss_cws)

No.


it doesnt matter who we get. they all hit the same lol

kaufsox
07-15-2011, 04:37 PM
Yeah - but Jerry can't stand for that. Winning 80 might, MIGHT, win the division (and give you the opportunity to have your head handed to you in the first round of the playoffs). But Jerry knows that he "needs" to sell tickets to make sense of the current payroll. Losing teams do not make for high ticket sales.

80 wins will not win the division.

captain54
07-15-2011, 04:42 PM
If our hitters can generate 2-3 more runs a game, we could be right back in this thing.

If I weighed 20 lbs less, was 20 yrs younger, 4 inches taller, made about 50 times more money and all my jet black hair back, I'd be schtuping Selma Hayek right now.

Steve Stone said it best on the SCORE today. The Sox are what they are. They are playing to their capability. Their performance against the rest of MLB is dictating how good they really are.

KW and Ozzie and all of them need to crank the spin and the "not playing to capability" part because they need to try to cover their beehinds and also to make the Chairman happy by giving the paying customer some hope via the media blah blah blah...

The team has had roughly 60% of the season to show who they are. Yes, they still might have a run in them, but they could also have a massive nose dive in them. It could go either way, if you wanna call a spade a spade. I would say though that if they dramatically, dramatically turned it around during the course of the next 40%, it would be an anomaly.

BainesHOF
07-15-2011, 08:04 PM
In all seriousness, why would anyone be interested in anything Guillen has to say at this point? He's been a failure in his job for years. The players' struggles this season have exposed him.