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johnnyg83
07-12-2011, 01:22 AM
I've heard him called the worst player to make the HOF but he's Chicago's own and grew up a Sox fan. And he attended my alma mater for HS briefly. So we have a lot in common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Lindstrom

DSpivack
07-12-2011, 01:56 AM
I've seen references of him attending both Loyola and Lane Tech. Did he go to both? :scratch:

DumpJerry
07-12-2011, 07:33 AM
I've heard him called the worst player to make the HOF but he's Chicago's own and grew up a Sox fan. And he attended my alma mater for HS briefly. So we have a lot in common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Lindstrom
You're in the HOF? Awesome!:smile:

johnnyg83
07-12-2011, 08:41 AM
You're in the HOF? Awesome!:smile:

You smile, but I was a founding inductee to the Hall of Fame of the Fair Skinned. The awards were at night for obvious reasons.

SI1020
07-12-2011, 08:42 AM
I've seen references of him attending both Loyola and Lane Tech. Did he go to both? :scratch: I was under the impression he graduated from Lane.

I've heard him called the worst player to make the HOF but he's Chicago's own and grew up a Sox fan. And he attended my alma mater for HS briefly. So we have a lot in common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Lindstrom
Not even close to the worst player in the Hall IMHO. People often look at dry stats (and his aren't bad) and make decisions on players that their grandfather may have been too young to see. Lindstrom was very well thought of in his time, a defensive wizard at every position he played, and a good hitter before injuries took their toll. Speaking of defense, with the gloves they use back then you wonder how in the world did they handle a sharply hit grounder or a screaming line drive.

SBSoxFan
07-12-2011, 11:58 PM
I've heard him called the worst player to make the HOF but he's Chicago's own and grew up a Sox fan. And he attended my alma mater for HS briefly. So we have a lot in common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freddie_Lindstrom

I wouldn't mind being called the worst player in the HOF. :D:

FielderJones
07-13-2011, 05:33 PM
Rabbit Maranville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_Maranville) is the worst player in the HOF. I don't care how long your career was, .258 is not HOF material. 28 career home runs? Are you kidding me?

I've heard that Maranville was very friendly with the sportswriters, always good for a quote or a story, and that's basically what got him elected.

eriqjaffe
07-13-2011, 05:40 PM
FWIW, Maranville was considered one of the best defensive shortstops of his era.

SI1020
07-13-2011, 07:12 PM
Rabbit Maranville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_Maranville) is the worst player in the HOF. I don't care how long your career was, .258 is not HOF material. 28 career home runs? Are you kidding me?

I've heard that Maranville was very friendly with the sportswriters, always good for a quote or a story, and that's basically what got him elected. Rabbit Maranville career WAR 38.2 Freddie Lindstrom 29.2. Our own HOFer Nellie Fox had a grand total of 35 home runs in his career.

FielderJones
07-13-2011, 11:04 PM
Rabbit Maranville career WAR 38.2 Freddie Lindstrom 29.2. Our own HOFer Nellie Fox had a grand total of 35 home runs in his career.

I don't know how WAR is calculated, so that is meaningless to me.

BeeBeeRichard
07-14-2011, 12:17 AM
This thread reminded me that Freddy Lindstrom was a relative of my family (by marriage, I believe), and when I was a kid he sent a few autographed photos around the time of his election and induction. So I dug around in the basement and found the following items.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6030/5936049168_d6ecfa6d55_s.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6007/5936002798_ecf3e664cc_s.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6137/5936002486_c5d96e8169_s.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6144/5935442995_88cf70c437_s.jpg http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6128/5936002690_e53db81779_s.jpg

Full set here with captions here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65202156@N04/sets/72157627190559420/

eastchicagosoxfan
07-14-2011, 03:34 AM
Rabbit Maranville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_Maranville) is the worst player in the HOF. I don't care how long your career was, .258 is not HOF material. 28 career home runs? Are you kidding me?

I've heard that Maranville was very friendly with the sportswriters, always good for a quote or a story, and that's basically what got him elected.
Chick Hafey is probably the worst player in the HOF. I think he was elected by the Veteran's Committee chaired by Frankie Frisch. I think Frisch tried to get every regular on the Cardinals from 1926-31 in the HOF. Hafey, along with Jesse Haines and Jim Bottomley all fit the bill. Lindstrom was a teamate of Frisch's with the Giants, but only for a year or two. So was Ross Youngs, another dubious HOFer. Hafey was only a regular for a few years. Dave Bancroft also falls into this category too.

In his day, Marranville was regarded as a great ballplayer. HOF great? Maybe you had to see him play? Off the top of my head, the dominate middle infielders of his day were Ediie Collins, Frisch, Hornsby, an old Honus Wagner, and younger guys like Bucky Harris and Travis Jackson, and Dave Bancroft. Offensively, he's not in their league. Maybe it was his defense? Or his popularity? Who knows.

wilburaga
07-14-2011, 06:29 AM
I don't know how WAR is calculated, so that is meaningless to me.

WAR, what is it good for, absolutely nothing. (These are the thoughts that pass through one's head when one is the ONLY poster active on WSI).

FWIW, Freddy's son Chuck tripled and walked in his only two MLB plate appearances, retiring with a slugging percentahe of 3.000, dwarfing that of Babe Ruth.

TheOldRoman
07-14-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't know how WAR is calculated, so that is meaningless to me.Exactly, that is why it's nonsense. What does it legitimately measure? Goodness?

mzh
07-14-2011, 11:52 AM
Exactly, that is why it's nonsense. What does it legitimately measure? Goodness?
Maybe it has some value, but people definitely use it wrong. It's not necessarily a good qualifier for what a good player is. There was a point in the season when someone brought up that Juan Pierre and Raul Ibanez were the worst players in baseball according to WAR, which was total BS because are probably 100 players in baseball that are actually worse than Juan Pierre or Raul Ibanez. Carl Everett also had a WAR of -2 in 2005, FWIW.

SI1020
07-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Actually Carl Everett had a WAR of 0.2, slightly in the positive. After being told from time to time that I'm an old codger that isn't nearly on the same level as a Theo Epstein and his devotees I'm a little surprised at the lack of love and respect for a newer metric. None of us are old enough to have seen Lindstrom or Maranville play so I just compared WAR totals to make the point that it's hard for us to really compare and evaluate these two and many other old old timers. It wasn't meant as a slap at FielderJones or anyone else. I don't think there is any statistical metric that is beyond reproach, and I would never discount the time honored old fashioned way of just watching as many games as possible over time to help judge individual players.

FielderJones
07-14-2011, 03:51 PM
After being told from time to time that I'm an old codger that isn't nearly on the same level as a Theo Epstein and his devotees I'm a little surprised at the lack of love and respect for a newer metric.

I'd be happy to embrace a new metric if I could understand what it measures and whether measuring that thing makes sense in evaluating players. I just can't make any sense of WAR explanations. Talk about tl;dr (http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/how_to_calculate_war/)! Just for starters, how do I know if those positional adjustments are an accurate assessment of relative value by position? How do I know if the starting pitcher vs relief pitcher winning percentage is a valid starting point? All the baseline stuff seems arbitrary to me.

I work in the IT field, my major and minor in college were math-oriented, so it's not a just a matter of me being some ignorant "math hard" meatball. I'm just skeptical of WAR measuring anything useful about baseball players.

SI1020
07-14-2011, 04:50 PM
I'd be happy to embrace a new metric if I could understand what it measures and whether measuring that thing makes sense in evaluating players. I just can't make any sense of WAR explanations. Talk about tl;dr (http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/how_to_calculate_war/)! Just for starters, how do I know if those positional adjustments are an accurate assessment of relative value by position? How do I know if the starting pitcher vs relief pitcher winning percentage is a valid starting point? All the baseline stuff seems arbitrary to me.

I work in the IT field, my major and minor in college were math-oriented, so it's not a just a matter of me being some ignorant "math hard" meatball. I'm just skeptical of WAR measuring anything useful about baseball players. When I was young we memorized batting averages, HRs, RBI's ERAs and the like. Now I'm told those things don't matter anymore you've got to look at a player's CHONE, WAR, and VORP. I've had my battles with the statheads and will probably have more in the future. I don't use teal and there was a tinge of sarcasm in the part of my post you referenced. Again, no hit directed at you and I do find your background interesting, giving you probably more credibility than most of us in evaluating baseball stats.