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View Full Version : Boston writter Nick Cafardo talks Quentin for Beachy?


Gammons Peter
07-06-2011, 12:12 PM
edit: ooops Writer, I fat fingered an extra T.


http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2011/07/03/clemenss_reputation_goes_on_trial_this_week/?page=full

about 3/4 down:

Brandon Beachy, RHP, Braves - His success (20 strikeouts, two earned runs in his last 12 innings) since returning from the disabled list may accelerate a possible deal to improve the Braves’ offense. Whether Beachy would be trade bait is anyone’s guess, but his emergence could make a veteran such as Derek Lowe available. The White Sox recently sent Dave Yokum, their fine assistant general manager/pro scout, to watch Beachy and Braves’ pitching, so we’ll see if there’s any match, and whether the White Sox would ever consider dealing Carlos Quentin.

kittle42
07-06-2011, 12:18 PM
Ha. Maybe they'd like the great Brent Lillibridge back.

I'd rather have Minor than Beachy.

DirtySox
07-06-2011, 12:32 PM
Ha. Maybe they'd like the great Brent Lillibridge back.

I'd rather have Minor than Beachy.

I wouldn't mind either of them, but this team doesn't need pitching right now. They desperately need some offense. Trading Carlos makes no sense unless the team is being blown up.

Moses_Scurry
07-06-2011, 12:51 PM
I wouldn't mind either of them, but this team doesn't need pitching right now. They desperately need some offense. Trading Carlos makes no sense unless the team is being blown up.

It would make more sense in the offseason as the Sox are potentially losing two members of the 6 man rotation and will be relying on a repeat performance from Humber (he might even be a free agent, too) and good health from Peavy. I'd hate to lose TCQ, but he has shown to be injury prone

DirtySox
07-06-2011, 01:01 PM
It would make more sense in the offseason as the Sox are potentially losing two members of the 6 man rotation and will be relying on a repeat performance from Humber (he might even be a free agent, too) and good health from Peavy. I'd hate to lose TCQ, but he has shown to be injury prone

I actually wouldn't mind the trade right now, as I don't have tons of confidence in this year's team. It just doesn't make much sense currently. 7 man rotation go?

Also, Humber is still under team control for a bit I believe. He hasn't even accrued enough service time to reach arbitration yet.

cws05champ
07-06-2011, 02:07 PM
I actually wouldn't mind the trade right now, as I don't have tons of confidence in this year's team. It just doesn't make much sense currently. 7 man rotation go?

Also, Humber is still under team control for a bit I believe. He hasn't even accrued enough service time to reach arbitration yet.
Yes but trading Quentin is a direct result of the Sox trading Hudson for Edwin Jackson last year. If they hadn't you still have a controllable 5 man rotation next year(Danks, Floyd, Peavy, Humber, Hudson, and possibly Sale) and wouldn't have the need to trade for young starting pitching.

Tragg
07-06-2011, 02:22 PM
Yes but trading Quentin is a direct result of the Sox trading Hudson for Edwin Jackson last year. If they hadn't you still have a controllable 5 man rotation next year(Danks, Floyd, Peavy, Humber, Hudson, and possibly Sale) and wouldn't have the need to trade for young starting pitching.
Indeed.
Based on his record the last 3 or so years, I'd prefer Williams not make any trades.

DirtySox
07-06-2011, 02:28 PM
Indeed.
Based on his record the last 3 or so years, I'd prefer Williams not make any trades.

Pretty much.

Let's not forget Holmberg is sitting mid 90's this year and scouts are raving about his stuff and his makeup. Don't be surprised if he's one of the top pitching prospects in baseball in the near future.

Over 2 levels this year:

88.1 IP 2.75 ERA 90 SO 14 BB .974 WHIP.

Tragg
07-06-2011, 02:41 PM
Pretty much.

Let's not forget Holmberg is sitting mid 90's this year and scouts are raving about his stuff and his makeup. Don't be surprised if he's one of the top pitching prospects in baseball in the near future.

Over 2 levels this year:

88.1 IP 2.75 ERA 90 SO 14 BB .974 WHIP.We mis-evaluate prospects; we mis-evaluate veterans. Consistently. And we can't negotiate squat. It really makes you wonder where the heck do we get these scouts. The result: we'll have to get rid of Carlos Quentin to not even break even pitching-wise on the clown trade Williams made with "friendly" Arizona.

PatK
07-06-2011, 02:50 PM
On the Score they mentioned this saying they would be doing this to make room for Viciedo.

But as Mully pointed out, you know what you got with Quentin, and he's not making too much. It would make no sense as a salary dump.

JermaineDye05
07-06-2011, 03:20 PM
Those two words, disabled list, really jump out to me.

doublem23
07-06-2011, 03:31 PM
But as Mully pointed out, you know what you got with Quentin, and he's not making too much. It would make no sense as a salary dump.

Yeah, but Quentin is the only guy you can move out of that corner OF/DH/1B logjam now.

Rios isn't going anywhere. Dunn's not going anywhere. Konerko's not going anywhere. Someone has to move, and TCQ will very shortly be owed a big payday for a guy who is still awfully, awfully streaky.

getonbckthr
07-06-2011, 03:33 PM
Adding Beachy would mean, I assume, another deal of moving a pitcher. Maybe Danks and Morel ( possibly another piece) to the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez and move him to 3B?

pythons007
07-06-2011, 03:55 PM
Adding Beachy would mean, I assume, another deal of moving a pitcher. Maybe Danks and Morel ( possibly another piece) to the Marlins for Hanley Ramirez and move him to 3B?

LOL!!!!:stars::rolling::thud:

DirtySox
07-06-2011, 04:06 PM
LOL!!!!:stars::rolling::thud:
Pretty much.

getonbckthr
07-06-2011, 06:37 PM
LOL!!!!:stars::rolling::thud:

He has fallen out of favor with the Marlins at least so it was reported a couple weeks ago.

Fenway
07-06-2011, 06:56 PM
We will take Adam Dunn if you take John Lackey :tongue:

getonbckthr
07-06-2011, 06:59 PM
We will take Adam Dunn if you take John Lackey :tongue:

Before he was signed didn't he have a terrible career at Fenway?

Fenway
07-06-2011, 07:03 PM
Before he was signed didn't he have a terrible career at Fenway?

It was his worse park by far

Lackey’s ERA is now standing at a dizzying 7.47. Even scarier, his 2011 Fenway ERA is a you-must-be kidding-me 9.17.

4 more years :whiner:

Tragg
07-06-2011, 09:13 PM
On the Score they mentioned this saying they would be doing this to make room for Viciedo.

But as Mully pointed out, you know what you got with Quentin, and he's not making too much. It would make no sense as a salary dump.
Honestly, that's an absurd reason to make this trade. We could make room for Viciedo any number of ways (with all due respect to Guillen and his love for certain veterans). And if Williams is going to trade our best hitter (arguably) for this fledgling pitcher, he ought to try to throw a salary in there or at least 1/2. And this pitcher has a recent presence on the DL - always a plus in a Sox trade.

A. Cavatica
07-06-2011, 09:34 PM
Quentin might be our best trading chip (position player division). MVP ceiling, still affordable. He'd better bring back a haul.

Brian26
07-06-2011, 09:43 PM
I think many people are too attached to Quentin and perhaps overvalue his worth.

Take away Quentin's 2008 season and you're left with a sub .250 hitter with streaky pop in his bat, shaky-as-hell fielding, an inflated on-base percentage because he gets hit so much, high tendency to get injured, and on top of that he's purportedly a big time headcase in the clubhouse.

I've never warmed up to Quentin. I was always wanted him to become the type of hitter Mags was in his prime, but it just hasn't happened. If the price is right, I can't say I would be destroyed if the Sox sent him packing. They're going to face the same arbitration question with him as they had with Jenks last year.

Tragg
07-06-2011, 10:25 PM
I can understand trading him.
And I guess my person over-estimation comes from what we give up when trading for the veterans. We absolutely load the wagon.
Please cut a good deal.

PalehosePlanet
07-06-2011, 11:11 PM
I can understand trading him.
And I guess my person over-estimation comes from what we give up when trading for the veterans. We absolutely load the wagon.
Please cut a good deal.

Exactly, very simple: Make someone overpay. It's not a situation where we have to trade him. You want him? Pay up!

We don't need pitching though; I don't see the Braves as a fit.

DSpivack
07-06-2011, 11:23 PM
Exactly, very simple: Make someone overpay. It's not a situation where we have to trade him. You want him? Pay up!

We don't need pitching though; I don't see the Braves as a fit.

Yeah, both the Sox and the Braves have a deep pitching staff but lack offense (though obviously the Braves are a much better team), I don't see a fit there. I don't get trading away a weakness for a strength we already have.

Tragg
07-07-2011, 12:34 AM
Exactly, very simple: Make someone overpay. It's not a situation where we have to trade him. You want him? Pay up!

We don't need pitching though; I don't see the Braves as a fit.

the Sox will need pitching next year. But you hit the nail on the head: we don't have to trade him, so pay up.

JermaineDye05
07-07-2011, 01:14 AM
Where in the rotation does Brandon Beachy project?

1? 2? 3?

tacosalbarojas
07-07-2011, 12:44 PM
I think many people are too attached to Quentin and perhaps overvalue his worth.

Take away Quentin's 2008 season and you're left with a sub .250 hitter with streaky pop in his bat, shaky-as-hell fielding, an inflated on-base percentage because he gets hit so much, high tendency to get injured, and on top of that he's purportedly a big time headcase in the clubhouse.

I've never warmed up to Quentin. I was always wanted him to become the type of hitter Mags was in his prime, but it just hasn't happened. If the price is right, I can't say I would be destroyed if the Sox sent him packing. They're going to face the same arbitration question with him as they had with Jenks last year.
Gospel.

doublem23
07-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Yeah, both the Sox and the Braves have a deep pitching staff but lack offense (though obviously the Braves are a much better team), I don't see a fit there. I don't get trading away a weakness for a strength we already have.

Pitching is a strength now, but that could quickly change. Buehrle and Jackson are FAs at the end of this year. Peavy is always an injury risk. Danks doesn't seem to want to sign a long-term deal and is an FA after 2012. Floyd is signed through 2012 with a team option for 2013 but he's arguably the least valuable member of the pitching staff outside of Jackson. And Humber is under our control for a while, but his performance to date this year is still the exception and not the norm for his career.

After that what's left? Sale and not much else. Adding a nice, young cheap pitcher under out control for a few years allows the Sox to be more flexible and possibly deal Danks or Jackson.

Noneck
07-07-2011, 04:13 PM
And Humber is under our control for a while,


Has this been definitively stated somewhere in the press? If so where?

DSpivack
07-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Has this been definitively stated somewhere in the press? If so where?

He only has 1 year of service time, per Cot's Contracts, so the Sox should have his rights for awhile, no?

DSpivack
07-07-2011, 04:25 PM
Pitching is a strength now, but that could quickly change. Buehrle and Jackson are FAs at the end of this year. Peavy is always an injury risk. Danks doesn't seem to want to sign a long-term deal and is an FA after 2012. Floyd is signed through 2012 with a team option for 2013 but he's arguably the least valuable member of the pitching staff outside of Jackson. And Humber is under our control for a while, but his performance to date this year is still the exception and not the norm for his career.

After that what's left? Sale and not much else. Adding a nice, young cheap pitcher under out control for a few years allows the Sox to be more flexible and possibly deal Danks or Jackson.

I just don't like the idea of our only consistent power bat being a 36-year old 1B.

I don't trust Viciedo to produce like Quentin, and I don't see a reason why we can't have both in the OF next season.

DirtySox
07-07-2011, 05:00 PM
He only has 1 year of service time, per Cot's Contracts, so the Sox should have his rights for awhile, no?

Correct. He isn't even arbitration eligible yet.

Frater Perdurabo
07-07-2011, 08:46 PM
I'm OK with dealing Quentin for pitching. It opens up right field for Viciedo, who I think will hit for higher average than Quentin.

I would then like to find a way to trade Jackson and Teahen, and try to pick up a strong defensive outfielder who hits left-handed for a decent average and can lead off.

A. Cavatica
07-07-2011, 08:58 PM
I'm OK with dealing Quentin for pitching. It opens up right field for Viciedo, who I think will hit for higher average than Quentin.

I would then like to find a way to trade Jackson and Teahen, and try to pick up a strong defensive outfielder who hits left-handed for a decent average and can lead off.

Yes. Jackson and Teahen for a young Ichiro, that would be a start.

DSpivack
07-07-2011, 10:32 PM
I'm OK with dealing Quentin for pitching. It opens up right field for Viciedo, who I think will hit for higher average than Quentin.

I would then like to find a way to trade Jackson and Teahen, and try to pick up a strong defensive outfielder who hits left-handed for a decent average and can lead off.

Pierre's contract ends after this season, I would prefer to have Quentin in one corner and Viciedo the other next year, as ugly as that would be defensively. I just don't have faith in finding a replacement bat in the offense in dealing TCQ.

Your latter scenario sounds nice, but I see both of them having little trade value, it would more likely be a straight salary dump.

Tragg
07-07-2011, 10:38 PM
Or heck, trade Viciedo to a team that needs a DH/power hitter for their ML ready outfielder more to our needs....of course that would require accurate scouting....

Mohoney
07-07-2011, 10:55 PM
I would then like to find a way to trade Jackson and Teahen, and try to pick up a strong defensive outfielder who hits left-handed for a decent average and can lead off.

Your trade only exists in Fantasy Land.

DSpivack
07-07-2011, 11:07 PM
Or heck, trade Viciedo to a team that needs a DH/power hitter for their ML ready outfielder more to our needs....of course that would require accurate scouting....

Well, if we're worried of his defense but confident of his bat, Viciedo would be an excellent option for DH.

Oh, what's that you say? We're paying some schmuck $14 million for each of the next 3 seasons and he can't play any position in the field? Oooooooh. :angry:

DirtySox
07-08-2011, 10:18 AM
Where in the rotation does Brandon Beachy project?

1? 2? 3?

Middle of the rotation. He's had tons of health issues as well. I like him though.

doublem23
07-08-2011, 10:22 AM
I don't trust Viciedo to produce like Quentin, and I don't see a reason why we can't have both in the OF next season.

We'd better find a CF like Bourjos then. Fast.

NLaloosh
07-08-2011, 10:29 AM
Your trade only exists in Fantasy Land.


Mostly due to the fact that KW is all-in! So, the Sox will not be unloading anybody. He might sign Manny Ramirez for the last month.

Tragg
07-08-2011, 10:57 AM
Middle of the rotation. He's had tons of health issues as well. I like him though.
Middle of the rotation, injury-prone pitcher for our best hitter? (and I know he has issues as well).

DirtySox
07-08-2011, 11:08 AM
Middle of the rotation, injury-prone pitcher for our best hitter? (and I know he has issues as well).

I'd take Beachy or Minor for Quentin. I don't think he's worth much more than that. And let's not forget how well our organization does in keeping players healthy.

SoxNation05
07-08-2011, 03:46 PM
Middle of the rotation, injury-prone pitcher for our best hitter? (and I know he has issues as well).

We'd be trading Quentin not Konerko.

Tragg
07-10-2011, 11:27 AM
We'd be trading Quentin not Konerko.

True
Anyway, if the pitcher is legit, the more I think of it the more I like the trade. For one thing, it will assure us of a solid starting staff next year, which means we should competitive, even if more offense is stripped away. Might allows us to "reload" rather than "rebuild"

Floyd, Peavy, Humber, Sale, New Guy, Danks (?)

HaroMaster87
07-10-2011, 11:18 PM
Yeah our problems are going to get bigger very soon. Our team strength, pitching, is going to get very thin, very soon. And there aren't any young i.e. CHEAP guys in the pipeline either...other than Sale and the jury is out on him even being a starter.

I think its a must to get Danks locked up...hes arguably our 1 or 2 and has been really durable...other than his current muscle pull.

I also want MB back as he has been really good this year, he's one of my all time favorite WS players and I'd love to see him finish here. That being said, we cant let him try and bend us over a barrel for big money/years after this year. 2 year deal sounds about right.

Peavy...after what he said after todays game, it sounds like hes pitching hurt again...but we're stuck with him..

Floyd..good number 4-5

and hopefully Humber can keep it up...hes been a god send for this team!

EJax...I cant even watch him pitch. I get sooo frustrated with him. If he had half a brain, with his physical talent, he'd be an all star..