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Kilroy
07-10-2002, 09:20 AM
is reeeeee-dic-u-lous.

It ended in a tie. Big flippin deal! I can't imagine how baseball fandom is wronged by that. Oh, but imagine had Garcia and Padilla gone 4-5 innings, not made their next starts, and it cost their teams a game. No one would be bitching then, right? Or an injury?

Oh, and God forbid someone not play. Murph went on for two hours on the Score this morning bad-mouthing Selig, baseball, and anything else he could think of. He said that Torre and Brenly needed to keep players available. If everyone doesn't get to play, then so be it, blah, blah, blah. Then, with about 10 minutes left in his show, some guy called up and reminded him how he bitched up a storm because Joe Girardi didn't play two years ago. Its so great that people remember things like that and call these boobs on them from time to time. That was a great laugh...

To all who are complaining that the All-Star exhibition baseball game which means exactly nothing in the grand scheme of baseball ended in a tie ---
SHUT UP!

hold2dibber
07-10-2002, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
is reeeeee-dic-u-lous.

It ended in a tie. Big flippin deal! I can't imagine how baseball fandom is wronged by that. Oh, but imagine had Garcia and Padilla gone 4-5 innings, not made their next starts, and it cost their teams a game. No one would be bitching then, right? Or an injury?

Oh, and God forbid someone not play. Murph went on for two hours on the Score this morning bad-mouthing Selig, baseball, and anything else he could think of. He said that Torre and Brenly needed to keep players available. If everyone doesn't get to play, then so be it, blah, blah, blah. Then, with about 10 minutes left in his show, some guy called up and reminded him how he bitched up a storm because Joe Girardi didn't play two years ago. Its so great that people remember things like that and call these boobs on them from time to time. That was a great laugh...

To all who are complaining that the All-Star exhibition baseball game which means exactly nothing in the grand scheme of baseball ended in a tie ---
SHUT UP!

Well said; I couldn't agree more. It's a friggin' exhibition game - it would be nice to have a winnner and an MVP, but not at the expense of impacting the games that do count. Maybe, for all-star games, they should have some kind of "sudden death" instead of extra innings (a home run derby or something).

hold2dibber
07-10-2002, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


Well said; I couldn't agree more. It's a friggin' exhibition game - it would be nice to have a winnner and an MVP, but not at the expense of impacting the games that do count. Maybe, for all-star games, they should have some kind of "sudden death" instead of extra innings (a home run derby or something).

I just saw Jerry_Manuel's thread suggesting the same thing -- props to you, J_M.

Dadawg_77
07-10-2002, 09:55 AM
The people who paid for a ticket, have some room to bitch. The cost was about $250 for the weekend (which you needed to buy to get a ticket to last nights game) and If I paid thats much for a ticket and the game didn't finish, I would be quite upset.

steff
07-10-2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The people who paid for a ticket, have some room to bitch. The cost was about $250 for the weekend (which you needed to buy to get a ticket to last nights game) and If I paid thats much for a ticket and the game didn't finish, I would be quite upset.


Actually, the cost for the weekend was more in the $400 range (for lower seats to all events), and there were people who paid way more than that.
The decision was a good one.. the manner in which it was made left a lot ot be desired. There should not have been a middle inning meeting on the field. They should have went in the tunnel at the end of the ninth and made a decision as to how many they would play and announce it. Not just "NL, you get to bat, if you score you win, if you don't it's a tie". That was ****ty.

Jerry_Manuel
07-10-2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77
The people who paid for a ticket, have some room to bitch. The cost was about $250 for the weekend (which you needed to buy to get a ticket to last nights game) and If I paid thats much for a ticket and the game didn't finish, I would be quite upset.

That's crap. $250 to see the all of the games best players on the field at one time. The fans got eleven damn innings. They got to see some of the games all-time legends as well.

Nobody twisted their arm and forced them to cough up that much cash for the game.

Kilroy
07-10-2002, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


That's crap. $250 to see the all of the games best players on the field at one time. The fans got eleven damn innings. They got to see some of the games all-time legends as well.

Nobody twisted their arm and forced them to cough up that much cash for the game.

Go 'head, Jerry!!

No one ever promised them a winner, they only promised that they'd see a game. They did.

Dadawg_77
07-10-2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy


Go 'head, Jerry!!

No one ever promised them a winner, they only promised that they'd see a game. They did.

Its Baseball, there are no ties in baseball. I see the logic and understand why the game was stopped, and see the reasoning why people would be mad. Once again Bud handles something poorly. There were quite a few things he could of done, one let pitchers who already pitched back into the game (not the best way but it would work) two, let the pitching coaches/batting practice pitchers finish the game. The offence would of gone up but that game would be over in after 12.

Most people wouldn't of bought tickets to the legends softball game if they didn't have to.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 10:36 AM
I aggree with the first post. As far as any kind of sudden death or anything, I like the idea that one of the guys on ESPN had last night. Bring in a couple of minor league pitchers to be backups just in case something like last night happens. Guys like Rauch or Malone that can go 3 or 4 innings. That way it doesn't really matter all that much if they get into the game or not and it won't affect the health of the major league pitchers.

Kilroy
07-10-2002, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77


Its Baseball, there are no ties in baseball. I see the logic and understand why the game was stopped, and see the reasoning why people would be mad. Once again Bud handles something poorly. There were quite a few things he could of done, one let pitchers who already pitched back into the game (not the best way but it would work) two, let the pitching coaches/batting practice pitchers finish the game. The offence would of gone up but that game would be over in after 12.

Most people wouldn't of bought tickets to the legends softball game if they didn't have to.


Bringing back pitchers who already pitched is no good. There is more risk of injury. BP pitchers pitch from about 45-50 feet to simulate velocity. So are they going to bring out the screen for them? And if so, what happens when there's a play at the plate, but the throw falls short because it hit the screen?? Hmmm...


Just answer this question: How is the greater good served by insuring that there is a winner to the All-Star game?? Who's life is better because of it?

Cheryl
07-10-2002, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77

Once again Bud handles something poorly.

I don't give a flip about the mid season exhibition game and didn't know what happened until this morning. I agree with Dadawg on this point---once again, Bud screwed up.

And what was the reasoning for not giving PK his Ted Williams award? I haven't seen any explanation for that.

LongDistanceFan
07-10-2002, 10:47 AM
it was a good game, paulie did great, they saw some great old timers and their was plenty of runs scored. the game ended in a tie, what better way to end it, of course i would like to see a winner, but didn't. it went 11 innings, what more can anyone ask for. except for shamme taking a piss test. :D:

steff
07-10-2002, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Cheryl


I don't give a flip about the mid season exhibition game and didn't know what happened until this morning. I agree with Dadawg on this point---once again, Bud screwed up.




It wasn't Bud's decision. The managers went to him, told him they were out of players, and could not go on. This was explained in detail by them on the ESPN post game interviews.

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 10:51 AM
Maybe I'm just way too old, but doesn't anyone else out there remember when this game - and its outcome - was fun to watch?

The All-Star Game, and its tangential "Skills Competitions" have eroded into a joke.

As far as not risking injury in this game, when the player's went all out I can only think of two real injuries of any note over all the games. Dizzy Dean broke his toe by getting hit with a line drive (and tried to pitch through it in the regular season - bad move - and ended up hurting his arm) and Ray Fosse when he got flattened by Pete Rose, although he too tried to play through it right after the game.

I am possibly way too "Old School" here, but last night's game, and baseball in general sucks. If I paid $250 to watch that game last night I would have left Miller Park feeling like I just got raped.

Dadawg_77
07-10-2002, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy



Bringing back pitchers who already pitched is no good. There is more risk of injury. BP pitchers pitch from about 45-50 feet to simulate velocity. So are they going to bring out the screen for them? And if so, what happens when there's a play at the plate, but the throw falls short because it hit the screen?? Hmmm...


Just answer this question: How is the greater good served by insuring that there is a winner to the All-Star game?? Who's life is better because of it?

Hey I just thought of those of the top of my head. MLB should have a plan to handle this situation. From the looks of the five minute meeting it didn't look like they had one. Bud, Torre, and Brenly, the guy from Fox decided to call the game right then there.

Jerry_Manuel
07-10-2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by Cheryl
And what was the reasoning for not giving PK his Ted Williams award? I haven't seen any explanation for that.

I don't think Konerko would've gotten the thing anyway.

Dadawg_77
07-10-2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by steff3603



It wasn't Bud's decision. The managers went to him, told him they were out of players, and could not go on. This was explained in detail by them on the ESPN post game interviews.

It was Bud decision, he said he had no choice, but the buck stops on his desk. MLB should of been prepared for a tie game in extra innings.

On the Teddy Ballgame award, it would of gone to Konerko or the guy who drove in the final run if the AL won.

steff
07-10-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Dadawg_77


It was Bud decision, he said he had no choice, but the buck stops on his desk. MLB should of been prepared for a tie game in extra innings.

On the Teddy Ballgame award, it would of gone to Konerko or the guy who drove in the final run if the AL won.

OK.. let me elaborate further. They went to him and said.. "we are out of players. We can not go on." Bud made it "official". My point is that Bud did not stand up and say.. "Woah.. 11 innings. Enough. Game is over. Nite nite." Better..?

And I completely agree with you that they should be better prepared. The game was mismanaged. But in their defense.. they didn't know it was going to go into extra innings until it did. Increase the pitching roster, not the position players. Too many there already.

kevingrt
07-10-2002, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
is reeeeee-dic-u-lous.

It ended in a tie. Big flippin deal! I can't imagine how baseball fandom is wronged by that. Oh, but imagine had Garcia and Padilla gone 4-5 innings, not made their next starts, and it cost their teams a game. No one would be bitching then, right? Or an injury?

Oh, and God forbid someone not play. Murph went on for two hours on the Score this morning bad-mouthing Selig, baseball, and anything else he could think of. He said that Torre and Brenly needed to keep players available. If everyone doesn't get to play, then so be it, blah, blah, blah. Then, with about 10 minutes left in his show, some guy called up and reminded him how he bitched up a storm because Joe Girardi didn't play two years ago. Its so great that people remember things like that and call these boobs on them from time to time. That was a great laugh...

To all who are complaining that the All-Star exhibition baseball game which means exactly nothing in the grand scheme of baseball ended in a tie ---
SHUT UP!

I second that... And can everyone Shut The *** Out

FanOf14
07-10-2002, 01:19 PM
First, they never told the people that PAID to see that why, if they had, I think they probably would have understood. Secondly, I haven't noticed too many (a few yes, but not too many) complain that it was ended at 11 innings, it was more of the no naming of the MVP, although the way the league is with the all-star game, the player with the most coverage gets it and not necessarily the one who earned it.

doublem23
07-10-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by kevingrt


I second that... And can everyone Shut The *** Out

What? You're the same one who last night went crazy when they were going to call the game in 11.

Bucktown
07-10-2002, 01:33 PM
Today's baseball players are a bunch of pansies. So you have to pitch 9 innings big deal. PLAY THE GAME. There are 200 million people watching and 45,000 that paid $400+ a seat. Don't tell us that we wasted 5 hours watching this and you aren't going to finish because you might get hurt.

I don't buy the fact that this game is meaningless. ALL GAMES ARE MEANINGLESS. That is why they call them games. But when you get that many people inested in the outcome you should play the game. I don't care if they put Padilla in right and let a position player pitch.

Should we let the managers and players decide which games are meaningful and let them quit if it isn't important enough for them? Let's just cancel the September and October schedule for the Tigers, Brewers and Devil Rays. Good forbid they get a hang nail playing one of those meaningless games.

This is what is wrong with baseball today. There was a time that the fans got to decide what was important. Now it is all about protecting the revenue stream.

I watched Dave Stewart come out to pitch his 10th inning in 1994. That guy had balls. I miss that.

:angry:

raul12
07-10-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Oh, but imagine had Garcia and Padilla gone 4-5 innings, not made their next starts, and it cost their teams a game. No one would be bitching then, right? Or an injury?


by the logic of sparing someone b/c of the possibility of injury if an f'n joke. by that logic, the game shouldn't be played at all. every play in baseball has some risk of injury (see jenkins of milwaukee incident). the risk is low, but it still exists. the same goes for a starting pitcher throwing 50-60 pitches in a game.

and for that matter, let's not have practice, let's not have spring training, let's not have winter ball, let's not have them be able to teach ball to their kids--cause any of these could result in an injury, and the game doesn't mean anything, right?

pudge
07-10-2002, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by raul12


by the logic of sparing someone b/c of the possibility of injury if an f'n joke. by that logic, the game shouldn't be played at all. every play in baseball has some risk of injury (see jenkins of milwaukee incident). the risk is low, but it still exists. the same goes for a starting pitcher throwing 50-60 pitches in a game.

and for that matter, let's not have practice, let's not have spring training, let's not have winter ball, let's not have them be able to teach ball to their kids--cause any of these could result in an injury, and the game doesn't mean anything, right?

Raul, I love you my brother, finally we agree! You are so right. And frankly, Kilroy and JM's attitude on this topic is disheartening... the All-Star game used to mean something - the historic record of NL vs. AL used to be something fans would trash talk about, even as much as division titles or world series.

The fact that some people on this board are telling people to shut up sort of defeats the purpose of this board, no? And if we sit back and be complacent, that's exactly the kind of attitude that allows MLB to pull the kind of crap they pull. It's a free country folks, rant about the tie All-Star game all you want, it was lame, weak, pathetic, and does it matter, yes? The only good thing to come out of it is that MLB will likely change their All-Star rules - and that's because people stood up and booed at Miller Park. Congrats to all who had a voice on this matter and expressed it.

raul12
07-10-2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by pudge


Raul, I love you my brother

hopefully not in that "funny" kind of way (unless you're a hot woman then that's a different thing entirely).

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

trimbo
07-10-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Maybe I'm just way too old, but doesn't anyone else out there remember when this game - and its outcome - was fun to watch?


I disagree ... this particular game WAS fun to watch, up until they had used all of their players and it was obvious they couldn't go on. I agree with the decision at that point, but it should have never gotten to that point.

KingXerxes, I think you and I have the same old school perspective on the All-Star game. Maybe interleague play has changed the NL-AL rivalry to the point where they don't care to be competitive in the ASG any more. That probably has a lot to do with the comments on here -- league allegence is practically gone these days. But I think the obvious problem is the way they use their rosters in the All-Star Game. It's like the 4th grade soccer Jamboree method of player substitution.

So instead of all of these ideas like resolving it with a home run derby, etc.. maybe the managers should be told in the future to substitute players as if it were almost like a real game. That, as opposed to bringing in Barry Zito--an excellent pitcher I have watched a lot out here in Oakland--for three freakin pitches and not even get to appreciate his curve ball, just so he "got to play"!

Two good articles on ESPN:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/allstar02/s/2002/0710/1403880.html


http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stark_jayson/1403878.html

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
Today's baseball players are a bunch of pansies. So you have to pitch 9 innings big deal. PLAY THE GAME. There are 200 million people watching and 45,000 that paid $400+ a seat. Don't tell us that we wasted 5 hours watching this and you aren't going to finish because you might get hurt.

So if Burly went and threw 5 or 6 innings and then went tomorrow and gave up 7 runs in the first inning it would be ok? That makes no sense. You didn't waste 5 hours. You got 5 hours of great baseball. So there wasn't a clear winner, big deal. It's all supposed to be in fun anyway right?

Originally posted by Bucktown
I don't buy the fact that this game is meaningless. ALL GAMES ARE MEANINGLESS. That is why they call them games. But when you get that many people inested in the outcome you should play the game. I don't care if they put Padilla in right and let a position player pitch.

Should we let the managers and players decide which games are meaningful and let them quit if it isn't important enough for them? Let's just cancel the September and October schedule for the Tigers, Brewers and Devil Rays. Good forbid they get a hang nail playing one of those meaningless games.

If you think all games are meaningless then you shouldn't be a sports fan. This game is meaningless in the regular season standing and records which is all that really counts come October. It's not that they are worried about anyone getting injured during the regular course of the game. It's them getting injured because they are playing or pitching longer than they should be. If everyone only pitches one or two innings then there should be no problems. But if everyone has to pitch 5 or 6 innings then the manger of that player is going to have a legitimate gripe when their turn in the rotation comes up in a regular game.

Originally posted by Bucktown This is what is wrong with baseball today. There was a time that the fans got to decide what was important. Now it is all about protecting the revenue stream.

Yes, baseball has all sorts of problems. Most of them stem from how much money is being made. Who wins the AS game should be the least of anyone's worries.

Originally posted by Bucktown I watched Dave Stewart come out to pitch his 10th inning in 1994. That guy had balls. I miss that.

That was a regular season game also. Pitchers just don't pitch that many innings anymore on a regular basis. It's a fact. Deal with it.

Iwritecode
07-10-2002, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by trimbo
So instead of all of these ideas like resolving it with a home run derby, etc.. maybe the managers should be told in the future to substitute players as if it were almost like a real game. That, as opposed to bringing in Barry Zito--an excellent pitcher I have watched a lot out here in Oakland--for three freakin pitches and not even get to appreciate his curve ball, just so he "got to play"!


I like the idea of substituting as if it were a real game but there are still the fans that want to see one certain player play and will be upset if they don't. You can't please all of the people all of the time. As far as Zito goes, Torre didn't even want to choose him because he pitched on Sunday. That's exactly one day off in between. How many pitches did you want him to throw? The only other time that happened was with Randy Johnson in the WS last year. But considering it was all or nothing by then, they had nothing to lose. Zito still has to pitch the entire second half.

trimbo
07-10-2002, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
As far as Zito goes, Torre didn't even want to choose him because he pitched on Sunday. That's exactly one day off in between. How many pitches did you want him to throw? The only other time that happened was with Randy Johnson in the WS last year. But considering it was all or nothing by then, they had nothing to lose. Zito still has to pitch the entire second half.

How about at least somewhere between 3 and 35, which is what Freddy Garcia pitched?

I see what you're saying, but all rotations essentially get the same effect from the All-Star game. Since Barry pitched the other day, he got short rest, but now he'll get a long rest (he's pitching this Sunday) than some other All-Stars (Buehrle, for example, who is pitching tomorrow). I only chose to mention Zito because his 3 pitches shows the point most clearly.

Hey... maybe if the NL had kept Jose Hernandez on the bench, he may have been more productive in this game coming into replace Padilla. :D:

Paulwny
07-10-2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by trimbo

KingXerxes, I think you and I have the same old school perspective on the All-Star game. Maybe interleague play has changed the NL-AL rivalry to the point where they don't care to be competitive in the ASG any more. That probably has a lot to do with the comments on here -- league allegence is practically gone these days.
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We were young and foolish, this game meant no more 50 yrs ago then it does today for most of the players.
I haven't watched a complete game since the 60's, after reading an article where Mantle and Ford were watching the end of an all star game at the air port lounge while waiting for their plane.
The only thing that's changed is the faces, the attitude of most of the players about the game is the same.

Kilroy
07-10-2002, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
I haven't watched a complete game since the 60's, after reading an article where Mantle and Ford were watching the end of an all star game at the air port lounge while waiting for their plane.

I wonder, did Mantle and Ford get crucified for leaving early like Frank Thomas did? Doubtful...

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 03:06 PM
I suspect Mantle and Ford were watching in an airport bar waiting for their plane - but they were the exceptions then weren't they? Today it's the rule.

I really don't care if a substituted player takes off for home anyway - he's done. The problem I have is the almost spastic nature of these players while the game is going on.

Earlier on a different thread I was basically told that I was being unrealistic. That if Barry Bonds got pissed off at Torii Hunter's catch (instead of hugging him) then people would be getting all over Bonds for that. IS THERE NO MEDIUM ANYMORE? Why do people always choose extremes in order to make their point? No I don't think Barry Bonds should go balllistic durinig an All Star Game and act like a moron, but I don't think he should moronically run up to Torii Hunter and screw around between innings either. How about this:

Bonds is robbed of a home run by Torii Hunter for the third out of an inning, and waits for his glove to be brought out to him and goes to his position in the outfield - WITHOUT TRYING TO MAKE IT A HALLMARK MOMENT. Can't we just play the damn game anymore?

Paulwny
07-10-2002, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
I suspect Mantle and Ford were watching in an airport bar waiting for their plane - but they were the exceptions then weren't they? Today it's the rule.


In defense of the players back then, many couldn't afford to have their families with them at the game and were catching early flights to get home.
Agree with the rest of your post but, I still don't think the game was that important to the players back then. There were some players, back then, who complained about having to go to the game, who wished to have a few days off with their families.

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 03:23 PM
Paulwny - No doubt that some players grumbled at having to go to the All Star Game over the years, and no doubt that some didn't take it seriously - yet I can't help but feel that if a young Roberto Clemente brought his six year old into the dugout that Johnny Keane would have told him to take him and his kid and take a hike.

Today, not only is this practice allowed - it's promoted.

Paulwny
07-10-2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Paulwny - No doubt that some players grumbled at having to go to the All Star Game over the years, and no doubt that some didn't take it seriously - yet I can't help but feel that if a young Roberto Clemente brought his six year old into the dugout that Johnny Keane would have told him to take him and his kid and take a hike.

Today, not only is this practice allowed - it's promoted.

I agree but, the slogan is "A Family Sport".

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 03:30 PM
For families to sit around and watch, not partake.

Paulwny
07-10-2002, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
For families to sit around and watch, not partake.

Hit the nail on the head, LOL

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 03:36 PM
Why is it so easy to close one's eyes, and picture - twenty years from now - not only kids, but wives, cousins, grandparents etc. not only being on the field, but actively taking a snap from center or taking a couple of swings at the plate. And the amazing thing is that there will still be defenders saying, "What do I care if Joe Smith's grandmother struck out to end the sixth inning - I still thought it was a great time."

Paulwny
07-10-2002, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Why is it so easy to close one's eyes, and picture - twenty years from now - not only kids, but wives, cousins, grandparents etc. not only being on the field, but actively taking a snap from center or taking a couple of swings at the plate. And the amazing thing is that there will still be defenders saying, "What do I care if Joe Smith's grandmother struck out to end the sixth inning - I still thought it was a great time."

I can picture it but, you, I, and a few others may not be around to see it.

KingXerxes
07-10-2002, 03:44 PM
Death does have its benefits.

I'm off to Las Vegas for a while and won't be on the internet so have a good couple of weeks and I'll talk to you when I get back.

Paulwny
07-10-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by KingXerxes
Death does have its benefits.

I'm off to Las Vegas for a while and won't be on the internet so have a good couple of weeks and I'll talk to you when I get back.

Come back with enough $$ to buy the sox from JR.