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View Full Version : *Official* Juan leads the Sox to a 6-4 Juin Postgame Thread


mzh
06-30-2011, 06:51 PM
Maybe, just maybe, this is the beginning of Pierre's second half! :D:

Glad to see us on the good end of a come from behind win for once.

On the side, Sox 5 game extra inning losing streak is ovah.

thomas35forever
06-30-2011, 06:52 PM
When JD05 learns how the Sox won this game, he won't believe it. I'm just plain happy.:bandance::bandance::):)

Soxfest
06-30-2011, 06:54 PM
Nice win on to whip Scrubs!

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 06:54 PM
Great game--and series--- by Juan.

Bullpen held again.

1-0 in the second half.

Now fly back to Chicago and go 9-1 to the break.

Crestani
06-30-2011, 06:55 PM
This is one Sox fan who is glad to see Juan have such a solid game...Kudos Juan..!!:bandance:

voodoochile
06-30-2011, 06:55 PM
Heck of a win to come back after being down 3 in the first. They kept plugging along limited the Rocks to one more run and then took the game late on some heroics from one of the least likely folks. Maybe Juan should be move to 5th in the lineup so he can drive in some runs. :tongue:

I'm a bit drained at the moment. Just glad this game didn't go much longer they got a day game tomorrow and have to travel.

2 games under, 4 games back.

:soxwin:

:)

:supernana:

Dan H
06-30-2011, 06:56 PM
An extra inning win? Amazing. Just amazing. Nice to see the team come back in the late innings. Just hasn't happened much this year.

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 06:56 PM
When JD05 learns how the Sox won this game, he won't believe it. I'm just plain happy.:bandance::bandance::):)

There was enough pathological hatred for Juan on the game thread. He has been bad mostly but some of these guys are obsessed.

FielderJones
06-30-2011, 06:58 PM
Had to leave work and catch the train. Just got home and checked the Sox site to catch the end of the game on Gameday. Still working my way through the game thread. I wish we still had the Horsemaster Fred thread picture.

WhiteSox5187
06-30-2011, 06:58 PM
Great win. Any win is great, but this one was real sweet.

34rancher
06-30-2011, 06:59 PM
Seriously, what happened to the thin air in Denver? There were almost 3 hrs at I thought were gone, teehan, TCM, and Juan?
Great game to win, I really hope this kind of win just catapults us into the second half of the season. Stay 4 games back, and time to turn on the jets.

kufram
06-30-2011, 07:01 PM
There was enough pathological hatred for Juan on the game thread. He has been bad mostly but some of these guys are obsessed.

The trouble with spreading the hatred before and even during a game, especially when the guy's been hitting of late, is that the humble pie has to taste a little bitter. It is really sad if you are a White Sox fan and can't just enjoy a White sox win.

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 07:02 PM
Great win. Any win is great, but this one was real sweet.

I actually quit watching out of disgust in the 6th or so but was back an inning later. Can't help it.

Glad I did because that was some nice baseball played late by the Sox.

GlassSox
06-30-2011, 07:02 PM
Great come from behind win. Very nice game by Juan. Some good timely managing. :bandance:

TomBradley72
06-30-2011, 07:02 PM
Have to give Juan a lot of credit for hanging in there- some very big hits this series.

:tiphat::tiphat:

With this weird line up- the most runs we've scored in a while.

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 07:03 PM
Seriously, what happened to the thin air in Denver? There were almost 3 hrs at I thought were gone, teehan, TCM, and Juan?
Great game to win, I really hope this kind of win just catapults us into the second half of the season. Stay 4 games back, and time to turn on the jets.

it was raining and there was a very strong swirling wind.

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 07:04 PM
Have to give Juan a lot of credit for hanging in there- some very big hits this series.

:tiphat::tiphat:

With this weird line up- the most runs we've scored in a while.

he killed the Rox all series.

34rancher
06-30-2011, 07:05 PM
it was raining and there was a very strong swirling wind.

Yeah but if you had told me we'd only give up 9 runs this series, I'd have lost the bet on the over. And that we only scored 11. W made just about every run count. Lol

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 07:07 PM
Yeah but if you had told me we'd only give up 9 runs this series, I'd have lost the bet on the over. And that we only scored 11. W made just about every run count. Lol


the Sox hit three today that I thought were gone but one was caught at the wall and two hit the wall.

mzh
06-30-2011, 07:07 PM
Alternative thread title- Winning Disgustingly.

You would have thought the game was over from the first post in the lineup thread. Guess what? It ain't over 'till it's over. :cool:

Dan H
06-30-2011, 07:08 PM
There was enough pathological hatred for Juan on the game thread. He has been bad mostly but some of these guys are obsessed.

As frustrated as I get, I have no hatred for any White Soxer no matter how bad they are as a player. Juan did it, today. I hope against all hope that he turns it around and the same goes for Dunn and Rios. Don't know if they will, just hope they will.

They have to be ready to play the Cubs. A bad team like that can be dangerous sometimes. Meanwhile it is nice not to be frustrated by an extra inning loss.

russ99
06-30-2011, 07:13 PM
Good deal, Sox comeback and win. 2 games under 4 games out.

Nice series by Juan, keep it up.

Lip Man 1
06-30-2011, 07:15 PM
34:

Remember as well the Rockies are allowed to keep the baseball in a humidor (sorry about the spelling) to help correct for the thin air.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Very nice win today especially after the way it started.

Two under again...let's see what they do with the Cubs.

After three months of maddeningly inconsistent play you are just praying for a hot streak...could make all the difference in the world.

Echoing Dan's comments...an extra inning win...very nice for a change.

Lip

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 07:16 PM
Undoubtedly PK has kept the Sox afloat this year, but man how about AJ lately?
.296 now.

Today he comes in late to pinch hit, gets two hits, scores two runs and throws a runner out! :bandance:

slavko
06-30-2011, 07:17 PM
Speaking of playing golf today, which I was and missed the win, Beckham has what golfers would call a flying right elbow. If he'd keep it into his side, his hitch would go away. Funny I should say that after he hit one out and dug out a breaking ball for an RBI single. Told ya Juan would heat up 2nd half. He's still the best we have to lead off. I know, declining skills, blah, blah, you're right.

Flying right elbow didn't hurt Jack Nicklaus much. Maybe he and Beckham are the exceptions that prove the rule. Great to see a come from behind win against a quality opponent.

Frater Perdurabo
06-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Juan Pierre's track record this season has been terrible, but he's had a nice little run here.

I hope from this point forward he hits .400 and steals 50/50 bases for the rest of the season.

Having a dynamic leadoff hitter creating havoc on the bases for Paulie and Quentin, with a versatile and fundamentally sound Morel in the 2-hole, would go a long way toward fixing the offense.

I would rather have a highly productive Pierre leading off than Viciedo anywhere in the lineup.

Getting criticized or lauded is entirely up to Pierre, based on how he performs.

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 07:24 PM
Meanwhile the Sox are now ranked third in the AL for fewest errors.

Chance to beat up on some bad teams for the next 10 games. I hope they don't disappoint.

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2011, 07:32 PM
Nice come from behind victory. Now lets sweep the Cubs and finish 1 game over at the break.

TomBradley72
06-30-2011, 07:34 PM
Meanwhile the Sox are now ranked third in the AL for fewest errors.

Chance to beat up on some bad teams for the next 10 games. I hope they don't disappoint.

That's a good point- with Morel and Beckham- their infield defense is looking pretty good- good starting pitching, good relief pitching, good defense- with just a little bit of offense- could be a very steady/consistent winning team in the 2nd half.

hawkjt
06-30-2011, 07:34 PM
Nice comeback win. I thought they were dead in the water til that 8th.
Gordo,AJ and Juan had good games,and really,pretty good series overall.
Good to see AJ throw someone out.
Jake did not have anything today..and I was cursing Cooper and Ozzie for letting him go ahead of EJackson in the rotation...made no sense,and still doesn't. Jake works on 5 days rest and EJack on 7? You end up with a depleted Jake and a rusty Edwin...cannot figure that one out,but at least Jake recovered and got by with guile for 6.

Sox grabbed a little offensive momentum today with 13 hits...now,on a steamy weekend at Wrigley,time to hit the darn ball...a lot.

PeteWard
06-30-2011, 07:39 PM
Nice comeback win. I thought they were dead in the water til that 8th.
Gordo,AJ and Juan had good games,and really,pretty good series overall.
Good to see AJ throw someone out.
Jake did not have anything today..and I was cursing Cooper and Ozzie for letting him go ahead of EJackson in the rotation...made no sense,and still doesn't. Jake works on 5 days rest and EJack on 7? You end up with a depleted Jake and a rusty Edwin...cannot figure that one out,but at least Jake recovered and got by with guile for 6.

Sox grabbed a little offensive momentum today with 13 hits...now,on a steamy weekend at Wrigley,time to hit the darn ball...a lot.

Just pulling so hard for this O to wake up, especially against three limping (and limp) teams ahead.

gf2020
06-30-2011, 07:45 PM
Great, gutty win today. I just hope this team can string some wins together now. The inconsistency has been maddening. It really sucks to have only won 3 games in a row three times this year.

Quentin08
06-30-2011, 07:51 PM
It's all good! :redneck

ElevenUp
06-30-2011, 07:55 PM
I can't imagine that this offense will not get A LOT better in the second half of the season. If the pitching can hold up and the offense starts doing what it should be doing we should have a fun rest of the Summer.

BigKlu59
06-30-2011, 07:57 PM
Great, gutty win today. I just hope this team can string some wins together now. The inconsistency has been maddening. It really sucks to have only won 3 games in a row three times this year.


Thats what Beer and Prozac sales are for... And when you gather your thoughts..... CHEER, VENT, RANT and PURGE here... We are one of the best support groups in the Nation...:D:

Nice come from behind today... Its nice to have all of those OH NO's... replaced with Hell Yesiree's !!!

BK59

NDSox12
06-30-2011, 07:57 PM
Nice come from behind victory. Now lets sweep the Cubs and finish 1 game over at the break.

You do realize there is another week and a half of games before the break, right? I'd be disappointed to only be one game over at the break following a sweep of the Cubs.

soltrain21
06-30-2011, 08:12 PM
Nice win. Now keep doing it.

JB98
06-30-2011, 08:35 PM
Satisfying win today. The Sox didn't lead at all today until the 10th inning. It's always nice to come out on top after trailing pretty much the whole way.

Santos' last four saves have featured 1-2-3 innings. That makes it easier on everyone's ticker.

SoxSpeed22
06-30-2011, 08:41 PM
Before this, I couldn't remember the last big comeback the Sox have had. Hopefully they can get over that damn .500 hump against the Cubs.

SOXSINCE'70
06-30-2011, 08:47 PM
the Sox hit three today that I thought were gone but one was caught at the wall and two hit the wall.

Teahen barely missed one in the ninth.Damn you, Blackmon!! :D:

Mohoney
06-30-2011, 08:52 PM
Kudos to this bullpen. They have really stepped up after a bad April.

TDog
06-30-2011, 08:52 PM
There was so much to be happy about in today's win. The Sox won even though Peavy struggled with the 2-3-4 hitters in the Rockies lineup. The Sox won despite being three runs down after six and two runs down after seven. I think I counted three occasions when the Rockies got a runner to third with less than two outs and failed to score him. Twice, I believe, the Sox got a runner to third with less than two outs and twice they brought the runner in.

This was an outstanding win in an afternoon game after an outstanding win after a tough loss.

Except for the first inning, Peavy was great, and he may have run out of gas at the end. The bullpen once again did its job. Ohman, who lost the series opener on a two-out pop up to center, left the bases loaded but didn't allow a ball to be hit beyond the infield grass.

Sometimes it doesn't matter what lineup you put on the field. I don't anticipate seeing today's starting lineup anytime soon.

ChiSoxGal85
06-30-2011, 09:01 PM
Thats what Beer and Prozac sales are for... And when you gather your thoughts..... CHEER, VENT, RANT and PURGE here... We are one of the best support groups in the Nation...:D:

Nice come from behind today... Its nice to have all of those OH NO's... replaced with Hell Yesiree's !!!

BK59
yep...even when I couldn't watch the end of the game due to some warped notion of my effect on the White Sox's luck (see the game thread for an explanation)...I still enjoyed riding the roller coaster with WSI.

Awesome stuff, the way they finally came through with some runs with RISP. And even when two different drives almost - but didn't - make it out of the park, they didn't roll over and give up. The last 2 or 3 games they've threatened very little after the 4th or 5th inning. This was much better. :bandance:

BTW, even though Dunn hit into 2 DPs, at least he was hitting the ball today.

kittle42
06-30-2011, 09:21 PM
The trouble with spreading the hatred before and even during a game, especially when the guy's been hitting of late, is that the humble pie has to taste a little bitter. It is really sad if you are a White Sox fan and can't just enjoy a White sox win.

Yes, the win was thoroughly unenjoyable.

I love the fact that critics (oh, excuse me, "haters") are in the automatic "can't enjoy anything" category. Great game by Juan Pierre and there is no one who doesn't want him to play like that every day. What is mind-boggling is that there are some of you who think some of us actually want him or the team to struggle. THAT is the joke.

Great win. How about 3 more this weekend???

Frater Perdurabo
06-30-2011, 09:26 PM
Great win. How about 3 more this weekend???

And how about 10 more after that to go into the All Star Break?

LITTLE NELL
06-30-2011, 09:29 PM
You do realize there is another week and a half of games before the break, right? I'd be disappointed to only be one game over at the break following a sweep of the Cubs.

My mistake, should win at least 4 at home against KC and the Twins and finish at least 2 over.

JermaineDye05
06-30-2011, 09:34 PM
When JD05 learns how the Sox won this game, he won't believe it. I'm just plain happy.:bandance::bandance::):)

He still blows.

:redneck

Happy they won, but I still think Juan needs to go.

JermaineDye05
06-30-2011, 09:35 PM
Oh, and for the record.

Jake Peavy isn't a closer.

Sergio Santos is.

spawn
06-30-2011, 09:37 PM
The trouble with spreading the hatred before and even during a game, especially when the guy's been hitting of late, is that the humble pie has to taste a little bitter. It is really sad if you are a White Sox fan and can't just enjoy a White sox win.
Yeah, it's gotten to the point where people want Pierre to fail when his success will only benefit the Sox. I remember a game thread when Pierre got a hit to score a run, and people complained that it only meant Ozzie would play him more. I mean, no matter how much you dislike a player, if you're a real fan of the team, as long as the player isn't a real dirbag like Manny Ramirez, you should want that player to succeed, as it helps the team overall.

Tat said, great come from behind win. When I saw the lineup, I remembered asking myself "Where the hell is the offense going to come from?". Glad to see they were able to avoid the double play before scoring to take the lead in extras. :redneck

JermaineDye05
06-30-2011, 09:46 PM
Yeah, it's gotten to the point where people want Pierre to fail when his success will only benefit the Sox. I remember a game thread when Pierre got a hit to score a run, and people complained that it only meant Ozzie would play him more. I mean, no matter how much you dislike a player, if you're a real fan of the team, as long as the player isn't a real dirbag like Manny Ramirez, you should want that player to succeed, as it helps the team overall.

Tat said, great come from behind win. When I saw the lineup, I remembered asking myself "Where the hell is the offense going to come from?". Glad to see they were able to avoid the double play before scoring to take the lead in extras. :redneck

It's different with Pierre because his success at the dish doesn't really benefit the Sox as much since he gets himself out a lot of times. Also, since he has very, very little extra base power, He doesn't really drive in many runs.

He helped today which is great for the team today.

However, I think that in the long run, it really is time for a change because he has clearly lost a step and his asset to this team really was his speed.

Given the offensive woes, they need another guy who has a better chance to drive in runs.

Viciedo showed last season that he has the ability to do that. Looking at his numbers at AAA, I think he's at least earned that shot to prove to us that last season's brief success was not an anomaly.

spawn
06-30-2011, 09:51 PM
It's different with Pierre because his success at the dish doesn't really benefit the Sox as much since he gets himself out a lot of times. Also, since he has very, very little extra base power, He doesn't really drive in many runs.

It's still ****ing ridiculous to wish him not to succeed during a game because you fear he will get more playing time in the future. No matter what the anti-Juan Army wants, Ozzie keeps putting him in the lineup. Just sack up, get over the resentment, and hope the guy is successful. I guarantee there will be those pissed off that his 3 rbi's today brought home a win. Those people would rather he popped up and lost the game, so they are justified in not wanting him in the lineup. That's putting one player over the team, and it's bull**** IMO.

JermaineDye05
06-30-2011, 09:53 PM
It's still ****ing ridiculous to wish him not to succeed during a game because you fear he will get more playing time in the future. No matter wht the anti-Juan Army wants, Ozzie keeps putting him in the lineup. Just sack up, get over the resentment, and hope the guy is successful. I guarantee there will be those pissed off that his 3 rbi's today brought home a win. Those people would rather he popped up and lost the game, so they are justified in not wanting him in the lineup. That's putting one player over the team, and it's bull**** IMO.

Oh, I understand.

I don't wish for him to not succeed. I simply expect him to not succeed.

For the record, over the past month, Ozzie did put one player over a team by continuing to play Pierre who was clearly struggling horribly while a viable replacement was wasting away in Charlotte. Just my two cents.

spongyfungy
06-30-2011, 10:07 PM
Glad that Juan is starting to hit. He'll go on a massive tear like he always does every year.

9 for his last 19 for a .473 BA and a .500 OBP during the 4 game stretch

Daver
06-30-2011, 10:09 PM
Oh, I understand.

I don't wish for him to not succeed. I simply expect him to not succeed.

For the record, over the past month, Ozzie did put one player over a team by continuing to play Pierre who was clearly struggling horribly while a viable replacement was wasting away in Charlotte. Just my two cents.

Define viable replacement.

spawn
06-30-2011, 10:11 PM
For the record, over the past month, Ozzie did put one player over a team by continuing to play Pierre who was clearly struggling horribly while a viable replacement was wasting away in Charlotte. Just my two cents.
Please. Like Viciedo being in the lineup was going to make up for Dunn, Rios, Beckham not hitting, or this teams propensity for hitting into double plays when runners in scoring position with less than two outs. I understand people not beig happy with him, but bringing Viciedo up doesn't solve all of this teams problems, and he's no guarantee to be successful in the Majors.

sunofgold
06-30-2011, 10:32 PM
Pierre is the da man! Well, for the day at least. lol! But don't give up on JP! 9-6 against the NL. .500 is so close..again!

Noneck
06-30-2011, 10:39 PM
Define viable replacement.

The Messiah.

kittle42
06-30-2011, 10:59 PM
I guarantee there will be those pissed off that his 3 rbi's today brought home a win. Those people would rather he popped up and lost the game, so they are justified in not wanting him in the lineup. That's putting one player over the team, and it's bull**** IMO.

I do not believe these people exist.

Brian26
06-30-2011, 11:02 PM
Watching the highlights on MSG network's sportsnite type of show. I didn't see the Adam Dunn play where he almost killed Peavy, nor did I see the play where he simply missed first base. There's no reason for this guy to play defense for the rest of the season.

PalehosePlanet
06-30-2011, 11:03 PM
Great comeback win today. Probably my favorite win of the year since the big comeback we made in KC vs. Soria many moons ago.

Nice to see Juan actually turn on a pitch instead of his patented flare to shallow left. We can only hope that he'll actually be of some service to the team the rest of the year.

Randy Wells tomorrow: 1-6 6.25 ERA. Hopefully we don't make him look good, as we are prone to do with ****ty pitchers.

soltrain21
06-30-2011, 11:10 PM
Watching the highlights on MSG network's sportsnite type of show. I didn't see the Adam Dunn play where he almost killed Peavy, nor did I see the play where he simply missed first base. There's no reason for this guy to play defense for the rest of the season.

It's hard to tell if he was trying to hit first base or not. At least to me. Hell, if he hits first base than the guy is safe at home.

fram40
06-30-2011, 11:11 PM
Watching the highlights on MSG network's sportsnite type of show. I didn't see the Adam Dunn play where he almost killed Peavy, nor did I see the play where he simply missed first base. There's no reason for this guy to play defense for the rest of the season.

Had he tagged first base a run would have scored. By not tagging first, it left the force on at home and the potential run was cut down

I just wonder if Dunn did it on purpose. Seems a little too slick for this baseball team

BigKlu59
06-30-2011, 11:41 PM
Had he tagged first base a run would have scored. By not tagging first, it left the force on at home and the potential run was cut down

I just wonder if Dunn did it on purpose. Seems a little too slick for this baseball team

They are a slick team..Just sometimes their "slickness" comes back to bite them in the ass...:D:

BK59

WhiteSox5187
06-30-2011, 11:59 PM
Watching the highlights on MSG network's sportsnite type of show. I didn't see the Adam Dunn play where he almost killed Peavy, nor did I see the play where he simply missed first base. There's no reason for this guy to play defense for the rest of the season.

I don't think Dunn "simply missed first," I think he realized that if he stepped on first base they would lose the force out at home so he threw home and hoped that Castro would have enough time to throw back to first for a 3-2-3 double play.

JermaineDye05
07-01-2011, 12:10 AM
Define viable replacement.

A guy who could hit around .260 and slug better than .301

Please. Like Viciedo being in the lineup was going to make up for Dunn, Rios, Beckham not hitting, or this teams propensity for hitting into double plays when runners in scoring position with less than two outs. I understand people not beig happy with him, but bringing Viciedo up doesn't solve all of this teams problems, and he's no guarantee to be successful in the Majors.

Like I said, he's earned the shot.

On the other side of the page, with exception to this series, Juan has pretty much played himself out of the lineup. Any other manager would have at least went with someone else on the bench.

guillensdisciple
07-01-2011, 12:53 AM
I'll take it. Give me a series win here and an over .500 record before all star break and I will take this team a little more seriously than I am now.

hawkjt
07-01-2011, 12:56 AM
Juan has 83 hits at the halfway point. I suspect he will end up with close to 180 hits overall. A base hit is valuable,especially if there is someone on base...but between Gordo,Rios,ect who have batted 8th and 9th,they have rarely been on base for Juan's hits to drive them in.
Juan has a good average with men in scoring position.
With bases loaded for his career he is hitting .362. This team is so lacking in clutch hitting,they need to get wherver they can.

I think at this point, Lilly is the guy who could go down for Dayan,if that move is made. Lilly is hitting very poorly since the Sox left Boston about 3 weeks ago. Even his defense was suspect in the Rocky series. Ozzie is not about to bail on a hot hand right now in Juan.

It is going to be about 95 degrees tomorrow at Wrigley and the ball will be flying out...c'mon Sox,time to rev that offense up and score a bucketload of runs vs Wells,Garza and Lopez?

JermaineDye05
07-01-2011, 01:05 AM
Juan has 83 hits at the halfway point. I suspect he will end up with close to 180 hits overall.

Not gonna happen.

The guy is still statistically one of the worst players in all of baseball right now.

The sooner he's out of the starting lineup, the better off this team is.

SBSoxFan
07-01-2011, 01:06 AM
I don't think Dunn "simply missed first," I think he realized that if he stepped on first base they would lose the force out at home so he threw home and hoped that Castro would have enough time to throw back to first for a 3-2-3 double play.

I didn't see it live. The first time I saw the replay, I thought he touched first, but then from other angles it was obvious Dunn missed first. I'm with you; I think he stopped short of the bag on purpose when he saw how close the runner was to home.

JB98
07-01-2011, 01:19 AM
Juan has 83 hits at the halfway point. I suspect he will end up with close to 180 hits overall. A base hit is valuable,especially if there is someone on base...but between Gordo,Rios,ect who have batted 8th and 9th,they have rarely been on base for Juan's hits to drive them in.
Juan has a good average with men in scoring position.
With bases loaded for his career he is hitting .362. This team is so lacking in clutch hitting,they need to get wherver they can.

I think at this point, Lilly is the guy who could go down for Dayan,if that move is made. Lilly is hitting very poorly since the Sox left Boston about 3 weeks ago. Even his defense was suspect in the Rocky series. Ozzie is not about to bail on a hot hand right now in Juan.

It is going to be about 95 degrees tomorrow at Wrigley and the ball will be flying out...c'mon Sox,time to rev that offense up and score a bucketload of runs vs Wells,Garza and Lopez?

:rolling:

For many reasons, Lillibridge isn't going anywhere.

Foulke You
07-01-2011, 02:38 AM
Juan has 83 hits at the halfway point. I suspect he will end up with close to 180 hits overall. A base hit is valuable,especially if there is someone on base...but between Gordo,Rios,ect who have batted 8th and 9th,they have rarely been on base for Juan's hits to drive them in.
Juan has a good average with men in scoring position.
With bases loaded for his career he is hitting .362. This team is so lacking in clutch hitting,they need to get wherver they can.

I think at this point, Lilly is the guy who could go down for Dayan,if that move is made. Lilly is hitting very poorly since the Sox left Boston about 3 weeks ago. Even his defense was suspect in the Rocky series. Ozzie is not about to bail on a hot hand right now in Juan.
Pierre is the man of the hour right now and had a great series but one series doesn't make his season. Ozzie made it clear he was going to play him no matter how well he played so it is at least good to finally see him produce. Juan has not been clutch this year with RISP no matter what the numbers say. He has had trouble driving men home in big situations but he has definitely had tons of company in that category. I hope he continues to stay hot because it doesn't appear that he is going anywhere.

kufram
07-01-2011, 03:37 AM
It's different with Pierre because his success at the dish doesn't really benefit the Sox as much since he gets himself out a lot of times. Also, since he has very, very little extra base power, He doesn't really drive in many runs.

He helped today which is great for the team today.

However, I think that in the long run, it really is time for a change because he has clearly lost a step and his asset to this team really was his speed.

Given the offensive woes, they need another guy who has a better chance to drive in runs.

Viciedo showed last season that he has the ability to do that. Looking at his numbers at AAA, I think he's at least earned that shot to prove to us that last season's brief success was not an anomaly.
We simply do not have a viable replacement for Juan. THAT is the problem. Viciedo does not replace your leadoff and Lillibridge is not that guy either. The time to replace Juan, and I certainly hope they do, is at the end of the year. Pierre has a history of playing better in the second half and he isn't costing us outs on the bases anymore. That is at the expense of his running game but we'll have to live with that. Pierre could be a big factor in this season turning around. Dunn HAS to be.

Sunnydre
07-01-2011, 06:48 AM
nice win today. good for juan. maybe that guy with the simpson logo in his sig, will stop calling him the worst player in baseball, which is annoying to read day after day.

JermaineDye05
07-01-2011, 07:37 AM
We simply do not have a viable replacement for Juan. THAT is the problem. Viciedo does not replace your leadoff and Lillibridge is not that guy either. The time to replace Juan, and I certainly hope they do, is at the end of the year. Pierre has a history of playing better in the second half and he isn't costing us outs on the bases anymore. That is at the expense of his running game but we'll have to live with that. Pierre could be a big factor in this season turning around. Dunn HAS to be.

People have said it before, lead-off hitters are overrated.

Anyways, I'd hazard a guess that you could put anyone else in this lineup not named Dunn in that spot and they'd be more successful than Juan has been this year.

October26
07-01-2011, 07:54 AM
Wonderful White Sox winner!:bandance:

Thank you, AJ, Gordon, Juan, & Sergio.

Now it's time to go to "The Shrine" and beat the Cubs - no letdown, please.

hawkjt
07-01-2011, 08:14 AM
People have said it before, lead-off hitters are overrated.

Anyways, I'd hazard a guess that you could put anyone else in this lineup not named Dunn in that spot and they'd be more successful than Juan has been this year.

Juan has had a rough first half,but still hitting better than everyone on the team average-wise except PK,Alexei,AJ,and Omar. Juan is 17th in the AL in total hits. He is third on this team behind only PK and Alexei. In that leadoff spot you have a lot of at bats,which does make it tough to maintain a great average. Lets see if he keeps it going,ok?

JermaineDye05
07-01-2011, 08:28 AM
Juan has had a rough first half,but still hitting better than everyone on the team average-wise except PK,Alexei,AJ,and Omar. Juan is 17th in the AL in total hits. He is third on this team behind only PK and Alexei. In that leadoff spot you have a lot of at bats,which does make it tough to maintain a great average. Lets see if he keeps it going,ok?

Terrible thing to judge him on.

He has a .320 OBP which is not particularly impressive.

He's slugging a measly .306 with only 10 XBH.

He's been an adventure all season in the OF.

Couple this all with the fact that he's been caught stealing about 50 percent of the time, and you can see that he's just hurting this team.

He's hitting about .260, but he's getting himself out on the basepaths and giving up runs defensively.

kufram
07-01-2011, 08:47 AM
People have said it before, lead-off hitters are overrated.

Anyways, I'd hazard a guess that you could put anyone else in this lineup not named Dunn in that spot and they'd be more successful than Juan has been this year.


You can say it all you want but if that is the case why are lead-offs so sought after when they come along? You may be right about plugging almost anyone else into Juan's spot and they'd be better but you said it.... you're guessing. He's lost a step or two but still faster than anyone else on the team.

The facts are that Juan is on the team so no reason to argue that point and he is a proven lead-off hitter over a long history with stronger 2nd halves. I'd have rather had Pods or some new guy but our up and comer got hurt so this is where we are. We won't lose the division because of Juan alone in my opinion.... plenty of other guys are/were hurting the team also. It's gone a bit quiet about A.J. of late because his hitting came around. It will go quiet about Juan if he keeps doing what he's doing at the moment.

Chez
07-01-2011, 08:57 AM
I think one point that got overlooked in this game was how well Guillen managed both his bench and bullpen. The fact that Teahen, Lillibridge and Omar can all play multiple positions really gives Ozzie a lot of late inning options.

And after the victory, I vowed to never visit the game thread again. The irrational, over-the-top negativism by the usual suspects on this board can be soul-crushing. Very weird.

Let's beat the crap out of the Cubs this weekend.

PeteWard
07-01-2011, 09:02 AM
And after the victory, I vowed to never visit the game thread again. The irrational, over-the-top negativism by the usual suspects on this board can be soul-crushing. Very weird.

Let's beat the crap out of the Cubs this weekend.

No kidding. And it's not even original negativity. The next guy who dusts off and repeats the tired blind squirrel cliche should be banned into his next life. :cool:

TomBradley72
07-01-2011, 09:11 AM
We simply do not have a viable replacement for Juan. THAT is the problem. Viciedo does not replace your leadoff and Lillibridge is not that guy either. The time to replace Juan, and I certainly hope they do, is at the end of the year. Pierre has a history of playing better in the second half and he isn't costing us outs on the bases anymore. That is at the expense of his running game but we'll have to live with that. Pierre could be a big factor in this season turning around. Dunn HAS to be.

That makes it sound like Juan is a viable lead off hitter.

He's not.

.260 hitters who don't draw walks and can't steal bases- are not viable lead off hitters.

Nice series against Colorado- I want him to be successful and believe he can probably still hit in the .260's-270s- but if he can't steal bases- there's no real value.

We're starting to see consistent starting/relief pitching and defense- we just need a small increase in our offense/run production and some of those "quality start" losses become wins- Viciedo can help with that improvement more than staying with a singles hitter who can't steal bases anymore.

6 SBs since May 1- an overall pace of 18/season is not enough.

doublem23
07-01-2011, 09:18 AM
We simply do not have a viable replacement for Juan. THAT is the problem. Viciedo does not replace your leadoff and Lillibridge is not that guy either. The time to replace Juan, and I certainly hope they do, is at the end of the year. Pierre has a history of playing better in the second half and he isn't costing us outs on the bases anymore. That is at the expense of his running game but we'll have to live with that. Pierre could be a big factor in this season turning around. Dunn HAS to be.

Yes we do.

Juan Pierre sucks guys. This isn't "irrational, over-the-top negativism," this is simply fact. When you hit .260, have a .320 OBP, can't steal any bases, hit for no power, and play awful defense you are not an asset to a Major League team. I do not understand how anyone who watches baseball regularly can argue against these points.

I'm glad the Sox won. I'm glad Pierre got a few big hits. But really, this team is better off sans Pierre.

October26
07-01-2011, 09:24 AM
I think one point that got overlooked in this game was how well Guillen managed both his bench and bullpen. The fact that Teahen, Lillibridge and Omar can all play multiple positions really gives Ozzie a lot of late inning options.

Let's beat the crap out of the Cubs this weekend.

THIS! Great point about Ozzie's managing yesterday. Ozzie did a great job. :D:

+1 on the beat the crap out of the Cubs this weekend. It's 8:24 am and I'm allready looking for the lineup thread for today's game - lol!

GO SOX!

Risk
07-01-2011, 09:45 AM
And after the victory, I vowed to never visit the game thread again. The irrational, over-the-top negativism by the usual suspects on this board can be soul-crushing. Very weird.

Let's beat the crap out of the Cubs this weekend.

Juan has been bad this year, but like you, I don't get the over the top hatred of him, especially since I can name three other starters who are doing even worse this season (turns head slowly in direction of Dunn, Rios and Beckham).

I just hope the offense can turn it around for the rest of the season.

Risk

ChiSoxGal85
07-01-2011, 10:06 AM
@ChuckGarfien (http://twitter.com/#%21/ChuckGarfien) Chuck Garfien
With his 3 RBIs yesterday, Juan Pierre has 20 for the season, same as Alex Rios.

I think that says a lot.

Johnny Mostil
07-01-2011, 10:26 AM
Juan has been bad this year, but like you, I don't get the over the top hatred of him, especially since I can name three other starters who are doing even worse this season (turns head slowly in direction of Dunn, Rios and Beckham).

I just hope the offense can turn it around for the rest of the season.

Risk

Agree on Beckham, Rios, and, especially, Dunn. I wonder if the problem is that none of them, especially Dunn, are going anywhere. Therefore the angst, or "hatred," focuses on somebody else having a bad year and whom management might be willing or able to replace? Just guessing here . . .

doublem23
07-01-2011, 10:32 AM
Agree on Beckham, Rios, and, especially, Dunn. I wonder if the problem is that none of them, especially Dunn, are going anywhere. Therefore the angst, or "hatred," focuses on somebody else having a bad year and whom management might be willing or able to replace? Just guessing here . . .

It's because A) Pierre is gone after this year, anyway, so it's not like the Sox have a long-term investment in trying to right the ship and B) there is a ready replacement for him, both at the mystical lead-off position that he occupies and in left field.

Johnny Mostil
07-01-2011, 10:37 AM
It's because A) Pierre is gone after this year, anyway, so it's not like the Sox have a long-term investment in trying to right the ship and B) there is a ready replacement for him, both at the mystical lead-off position that he occupies and in left field.

OK, so A pretty much confirms Pierre is more replaceable than Beckham, Rios, and, especially, Dunn, even if his performance might not be quite as bad?

I agree with you on B as well. I just can't get much worked up over Juan Pierre given the other glaring problems on this team.

kittle42
07-01-2011, 10:54 AM
Juan has had a rough first half,but still hitting better than everyone on the team average-wise except PK,Alexei,AJ,and Omar. Juan is 17th in the AL in total hits. He is third on this team behind only PK and Alexei. In that leadoff spot you have a lot of at bats,which does make it tough to maintain a great average. Lets see if he keeps it going,ok?

While I want Juan to get it going as much as the next guy, there is a huge problem with the data you are using to support your statement.

balke
07-01-2011, 11:10 AM
It's because A) Pierre is gone after this year, anyway, so it's not like the Sox have a long-term investment in trying to right the ship and B) there is a ready replacement for him, both at the mystical lead-off position that he occupies and in left field.

Dunn needs to show a pulse before this can even be talked about anymore. Its not even an option while this team competes. Juan produces - Dunn is dead. Until Dunn does anything - Juan is here to stay.

Viciedo may not drop the ball and look silly when he comes up like Juan - but he also won't get to half the balls Juan has lately. Quentin/rios/viciedo? Twins will gap hit the Sox and score 20+ runs.

voodoochile
07-01-2011, 11:33 AM
Terrible thing to judge him on.

He has a .320 OBP which is not particularly impressive.

He's slugging a measly .306 with only 10 XBH.

He's got a .320 OBP while only batting .262. If he raises his average closer to his career average of .290+ then his OBP should approach his career average of .346.

TomBradley72
07-01-2011, 11:36 AM
Dunn needs to show a pulse before this can even be talked about anymore. Its not even an option while this team competes. Juan produces - Dunn is dead. Until Dunn does anything - Juan is here to stay.

Viciedo may not drop the ball and look silly when he comes up like Juan - but he also won't get to half the balls Juan has lately. Quentin/rios/viciedo? Twins will gap hit the Sox and score 20+ runs.

Any argument for Pierre that involves his defense is a false argument.

We're struggling to get to .500 because we're losing games where we get "quality starts"- our offense will produce more runs with Viciedo in the line up every day. That increase will offset any decline in defense- which I don't really see happening- Pierre doesn't have great range, every ball is an adventure, and he has zero chance of ever throwing anyone out.

It's not that Viciedo is perfect- he'll just be an improvement.

trilobite_hives
07-01-2011, 11:40 AM
So glad they were able to win the series. Too bad I wasn't able to catch much of it, but I'm happy regardless!

spawn
07-01-2011, 11:52 AM
I just can't get much worked up over Juan Pierre given the other glaring problems on this team.
This pretty much sums up how I feel. If he was loafing, or taking plays off, or just plain lazy, then I would be screaming for his head. Let's face it...he's not the one inserting himself into the lineup. And considering the players that are SUPPOSED to produce (Dunn, Rios), players that are supposed to drive in runs, I can't get too upset with Pierre. I wish he could be more productive from the leadoff spot, but I'm not going to blast him each and every time he doesn't produce.

balke
07-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Any argument for Pierre that involves his defense is a false argument.

We're struggling to get to .500 because we're losing games where we get "quality starts"- our offense will produce more runs with Viciedo in the line up every day. That increase will offset any decline in defense- which I don't really see happening- Pierre doesn't have great range, every ball is an adventure, and he has zero chance of ever throwing anyone out.

It's not that Viciedo is perfect- he'll just be an improvement.

Or will he? He's hitting minor league pitchers. Moustakas had 124 rbi last year - he has 1 so far in the majors. Minor league stats aren't a guarantee.

If Viciedo were replacing Dunn he'd help the team - because any number higher than 0 is an improvement. Nice to see the big guys not afraid to hit into consecutive double plays when given the opportunity btw.

Id like to see some more SBs and a higher OBP for Juan this month - if he can't do it give up on him. Right now is not the time though - blame dunn for that.

kufram
07-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Yes we do.

Juan Pierre sucks guys. This isn't "irrational, over-the-top negativism," this is simply fact. When you hit .260, have a .320 OBP, can't steal any bases, hit for no power, and play awful defense you are not an asset to a Major League team. I do not understand how anyone who watches baseball regularly can argue against these points.

I'm glad the Sox won. I'm glad Pierre got a few big hits. But really, this team is better off sans Pierre.

I'm not arguing anybody's points. The stats do speak for themselves. I'm just saying that Pierre is HERE and I don't think he's going anywhere until the end of the year. Sometimes you just have to accept what you have and make the best of it. I see evidence that his second half will be better than his first half and whoever you put in there next could just be the next guy that can't do the job and there are bigger concerns. I'm not sure who you have to lead-off... I just prefer someone who has done it before to 6 who have not.

By all means bring Viciedo in, but bring him in for Dunn. I don't necessarily think a guy that is tearing up the minors is going to make a big difference in the majors. If he joins the team I'll be rooting for him, though.

Lip Man 1
07-01-2011, 12:10 PM
This is something of a moot point (or moo point - the point of view of a cow according to Joey :D:) because of something Ozzie said to the newspapers last night.

I'm paraphrasing (don't have the actual quote handy) but it went along the lines of, "as long as I'm the manager, he's playing...I respect what he does for the team."

You can debate if this is good or bad but it doesn't look like anything will be changing on that front.

On another front Joe Cowley had a column in the Sun-Times this morning blistering Kenny for not having the stones to own up to his mistakes and for trying to put the ball in Ozzie's court over things like the Thome decision and this Pierre / Dayan controversy.

I don't totally agree with all of his remarks but he does make some valid points, mainly that Kenny's the G.M. and if he thinks something needs to be changed he should simply do it.

Lip

jdm2662
07-01-2011, 12:48 PM
This is something of a moot point (or moo point - the point of view of a cow according to Joey :D:) because of something Ozzie said to the newspapers last night.

I'm paraphrasing (don't have the actual quote handy) but it went along the lines of, "as long as I'm the manager, he's playing...I respect what he does for the team."

You can debate if this is good or bad but it doesn't look like anything will be changing on that front.

On another front Joe Cowley had a column in the Sun-Times this morning blistering Kenny for not having the stones to own up to his mistakes and for trying to put the ball in Ozzie's court over things like the Thome decision and this Pierre / Dayan controversy.

I don't totally agree with all of his remarks but he does make some valid points, mainly that Kenny's the G.M. and if he thinks something needs to be changed he should simply do it.

Lip

Joe Cowley has had a personal beef with Kenny for quite some time now, and he always shows his bias for Ozzie. Hell, Cowley and Ozzie's idiot son were like best friends last season. Why people would take his word seriously is beyond me.

MtGrnwdSoxFan
07-01-2011, 12:50 PM
6/30 TBGR for your viewing pleasure. (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=4&id=4148)

#1swisher
07-01-2011, 01:11 PM
Cowley on wscr (http://player.radio.com/player/RadioPlayer.php?version=1.2.11740&station=391), commenting on lead off spot. "It's obvious, that KW wants Viciedo and Ozzie wants Pierre". Kenny will probably be wanting a new manager".

Lip Man 1
07-01-2011, 01:46 PM
JDM:

Just food for thought. Joe seems pretty positive about Kenny in this interview with me for WSI.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=11&id=3744

Lip

SI1020
07-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Joe Cowley has had a personal beef with Kenny for quite some time now, and he always shows his bias for Ozzie. Hell, Cowley and Ozzie's idiot son were like best friends last season. Why people would take his word seriously is beyond me. Exactly. He has an irrational dislike for KW and his guy Ozzie can do no wrong. No objectivity whatsoever.

spawn
07-01-2011, 02:24 PM
JDM:

Just food for thought. Joe seems pretty positive about Kenny in this interview with me for WSI.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=11&id=3744

Lip
And how long ago was that interview done? Things change. Cowley is a ****ing douchebag.

jdm2662
07-01-2011, 03:01 PM
JDM:

Just food for thought. Joe seems pretty positive about Kenny in this interview with me for WSI.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=11&id=3744

Lip

Well, he either put on a good show for you, or it was done some time ago. Since the start of last year, Cowley has been to the defense of every single instance with Ozzie, while trashing Kenny at the same time. He was also close butt buddies with Ozzie's ******* son. He has such an obvious bias, it's funny that he would try to hide it.

sunofgold
07-01-2011, 05:12 PM
6-4 again. Juan with 2 run game winning hit in both. Go figure. DeJuan Vu